What is Causation? | Episode 1511 | Closer To Truth

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Closer To Truth

Closer To Truth

Күн бұрын

Why does one thing ‘cause’ another thing? Is causation fundamental, primitive, real-not reducible to, or explainable by, anything else? Or is causation a human construct, derivative, artificial? At stake is what existence is about. Featuring interviews with Simon Blackburn, Richard Swinburne, Robin Le Poidevin, Huw Price, and Walter Sinnott-Armstrong.
Season 15, Episode 11 - #CloserToTruth
▶Register for free at CTT.com for subscriber-only exclusives: bit.ly/2GXmFsP
Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
▶Free access to Closer to Truth's library of 5,000 videos: bit.ly/376lkKN
Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#Causation #Existence

Пікірлер: 617
@jackrabbitism
@jackrabbitism 3 жыл бұрын
There isn’t really any other series like this. It is an endlessly thought provoking series. It’s very special.
@ShowUsTruth
@ShowUsTruth 3 жыл бұрын
This is the kind which respect the audience minds
@koolzjackz8401
@koolzjackz8401 2 жыл бұрын
It's in large part to Roberts interviewing skills. He asked such profound questions and has stood toe to toe with...... Everyone. Super inquisitive conversation from Robert. The guy just never disappoints.
@seanleith5312
@seanleith5312 2 жыл бұрын
What makes someone a philosopher is the ability to talk nonsense endlessly, while every sentence he says is neither obviously right nor wrong.
@brandoncrutchfield5201
@brandoncrutchfield5201 2 жыл бұрын
I agree, this channel is so good. One thing I think makes it so good is Robert always asks really great questions
@bryanmc9174
@bryanmc9174 2 жыл бұрын
I had this similar thought before reading this comment. This is a real public service in exposing people to these ideas.
@davidr1620
@davidr1620 4 жыл бұрын
I've said this before on another one of his videos, but regardless of the wide varieties of disagreement on his videos, can we all agree that Kuhn is one hell of a host? The guy is so well read.
@johnbrzykcy3076
@johnbrzykcy3076 4 жыл бұрын
Hey David... didn't Kuhn write a book himself?
@mikebell4649
@mikebell4649 4 жыл бұрын
If he can stop using theistic opinions just to grab a wider audience he would be taken more seriously! He wants a big tent n sacrifices epistemology n truth
@mikebell4649
@mikebell4649 4 жыл бұрын
Why dont u ask him to Demonstrate how he know ure god makes choices and who told him! Presuppositional !
@davidr1620
@davidr1620 4 жыл бұрын
@@mikebell4649 Why would he and should he be so prejudicial in his investigation? Especially since a great number of modern philosophers are theists. I think getting a wide variety of opinions and considering them is a sign of intellectual maturity. And this is especially true given that Kuhn has stated on multiple occasions that the existence of God and the possibility of an afterlife is one of the subjects that troubles him most of all the deep questions.
@davidr1620
@davidr1620 4 жыл бұрын
@@mikebell4649 ...what?
@nicoboer
@nicoboer 4 жыл бұрын
I love the fact that "Closer to Truth" is provided freely on KZfaq (and without ADs).. the series brings up great questions that trigger more and more questions!!.. Curiosity is the base of learning, and to have this for free open doors for people to learn and ask more all around the world. The main problem is how to bring this kind of stuff to more people, a youtuber talking about whatever gets more views than these type of series.
@sirluoyi2853
@sirluoyi2853 3 жыл бұрын
Join this WhatsApp group for Philosophical discussions... 👇 Link: chat.whatsapp.com/IibF9JUazRF9IExVk5Qmh1
@melgross
@melgross 3 жыл бұрын
There are Ads now.
@canyoubeserious
@canyoubeserious 2 жыл бұрын
Without ads? What? The way I’m watching they are relentlessly mercilessly appearing.
@l.h.308
@l.h.308 Жыл бұрын
Adblock removes them! It's free (donations appreciated)
@vivekmg2300
@vivekmg2300 3 жыл бұрын
closer to truth has become my bedtime story. I go to sleep listening to one of the videos
@paxdriver
@paxdriver Жыл бұрын
If reality tv were replaced by Closer To Truth I don't think the world's politics would look anything like the circus we see today. This sort of programming is such an understated benefit to the species. Very work Dr Kuhn 👍
@maspoetry1
@maspoetry1 3 жыл бұрын
the only fact this guy is a noble searcher makes me smile for him. great person
@gustavodeoliveira702
@gustavodeoliveira702 4 жыл бұрын
Extraordinary content! This is what KZfaq need.
@sirluoyi2853
@sirluoyi2853 3 жыл бұрын
Join this WhatsApp group for Philosophical discussions... 👇 Link: chat.whatsapp.com/IibF9JUazRF9IExVk5Qmh1
@theclassicfan7002
@theclassicfan7002 2 жыл бұрын
couldnt agree with u more
@gustavodeoliveira702
@gustavodeoliveira702 2 жыл бұрын
@@sirluoyi2853 You still host a whatsapp group?
@DrGooseDuckman
@DrGooseDuckman 2 жыл бұрын
New to this series and digging it. IMHO it's draw is it's genuine curiosity, and the excitement encircling it. That's really tough to fake. The host, ofc is a perfect conductor for all this.
@TheLlywelyn
@TheLlywelyn 3 жыл бұрын
Firstly - taken together, Mr Kuhn, these many chapters of Closer to the Truth constitute one of the most profound philosophical explorations of our time (i actually can't think of a comparable work in print of this scope.) In pushing into some of the deepest questions of existence - you tease out and weave together connections across disciplines, across world views, across perspectives - and all the time simply exposing the competing threads to allow us to see how they lie. You respect those you interview, and you respect your listeners. You meet with great minds and ask many of the questions I want to ask, and so many more I wouldn't have thought to ask. (Secondly - am I the only one who is, of course, at once impressed by these great minds - but then equally surprised at how many demonstrate an underlying almost emotive commitment to their own presuppositions about reality by sometimes presenting as sureties the More Speculative Ideas (eg, multiverse, backwards causation) alongside those Things More Verified as if they are the same?
@pamalogy
@pamalogy Жыл бұрын
Way to go Lawrence. Another very well done episode. I deeply admire your work.
@mentuemhet
@mentuemhet 4 жыл бұрын
i don't understand why your videos aren't getting millions of views.
@Bldyiii
@Bldyiii 4 жыл бұрын
Doctor Who 2002 Cause & Effect. I drank too much wine, and now must take a piss.
@mentuemhet
@mentuemhet 4 жыл бұрын
@@Bldyiii lol, the matrix 😁
@nastyHarry
@nastyHarry 4 жыл бұрын
people would rather watch mindless entertainment like fat guys chugging 10 gallons of coke. Thinking is hard work
@lifeisshortpeace7783
@lifeisshortpeace7783 4 жыл бұрын
Only those interested in ultimate truth will watch,but most people is interested satisfying their sensual needs.
@rogermouton2273
@rogermouton2273 3 жыл бұрын
people en masse are insufficiently intelligent
@AkashThomas99
@AkashThomas99 2 жыл бұрын
Great host, amazing production quality.
@SpittinSquirell
@SpittinSquirell 3 жыл бұрын
I love this series but the more episodes I watch the more I realize that we actually know very little. There are very few absolute truths if any, and I wouldn't be surprised if in 300+ years people look back at our time and are amazed at what we believed and thought was true.
@donteatthepaint8412
@donteatthepaint8412 2 жыл бұрын
Try 50.
@jakecostanza802
@jakecostanza802 2 жыл бұрын
I have the same feeling when I hear songs from the 80's
@louisbullard6135
@louisbullard6135 Жыл бұрын
Interesting and I mostly agree. I know most people think we will become increasingly advanced in the future but I often wonder could we regress. Could we lose even our current technology and have to start over. I am not sure I could start a fire without a match and that scares the hell out of me!!!
@deandsouza
@deandsouza Жыл бұрын
I agree a bit. But these are deep questions and I feel that our understanding of the natural world has increased a lot since I was a kid.
@ishevel
@ishevel 3 жыл бұрын
Thanx! Such an interesting and under-covered topic. Your video provides insights into causation at different angles.
@davidanthony6408
@davidanthony6408 2 жыл бұрын
All of my life I have been concerned with the meaning of things, identifying them, how things work and why, and entity relationships, etc. This made me feel like I wasn't as smart as other people because I never see others bothered by not knowing enough. I eventually learned that most people do not like to think and would rather fake it till they make it. I guess I wasn't really behind, I was just more curious and honest about my level of understanding in the interest of welcoming more understanding.
@alwaysgreatusa223
@alwaysgreatusa223 2 жыл бұрын
The surest sign of intelligence is curiosity, whereas surest sign of stupidity is disinterestedness.
@duaneholcomb8408
@duaneholcomb8408 2 жыл бұрын
Me too I'm interested in many things. I can't do them all. Not time enough dont live long enough. I've always knew for some time now about the law of cause and effect. Einstein used it. To discover ever thing he ever knew without it nothing can be known about any thing. I'm a very curious person. I suppose. ,,,
@casudemous5105
@casudemous5105 2 жыл бұрын
The things is all of these smart people arent sure of their "intelligence". I assume like most smart people they doubt they are. The difference is that they are people that have done thing i.e they jumped
@steveodavis9486
@steveodavis9486 Жыл бұрын
Kuhn makes you think, whatever that is. Curiosity is for people who like to think, dogma is for lazy,disinterested people who enjoy being satisfied with group values.
@waltmoyo3700
@waltmoyo3700 2 жыл бұрын
This is now my favorite KZfaq channel, along with World Science Festival.
@domcasmurro2417
@domcasmurro2417 4 жыл бұрын
I envy your life, mister Kuhn. Wish i could engage in conservations with so many interesting persons from all areas.
@johnbrzykcy3076
@johnbrzykcy3076 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Dom.. I feel the same. But I'm pretty simple-minded so I don't think my conversation with these people would get very far.
@domcasmurro2417
@domcasmurro2417 4 жыл бұрын
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Well, tbh i would need to improve a lot to talk with many of these people.
@terrywbreedlove
@terrywbreedlove 4 жыл бұрын
You can now easier than ever with social media etc. People like Dr Brian Green has e a weekly show and he answers questions.
@xspotbox4400
@xspotbox4400 4 жыл бұрын
@@terrywbreedlove Those popular scientists doesn't really answer question, only referee to what they already explained. There are other channels when young researchers and scientists explore their thought models, they do care what community want to know and do repply to every single comment. Greene is a good professor, but he wont waste time with amateurs and risk loosing credibility due to some stupid question he can't really explain.
@domcasmurro2417
@domcasmurro2417 4 жыл бұрын
@@xspotbox4400 Brian Greene is doing the Daily Equation show at the World Science Festival in the last weeks. They have some Q&A videos there.
@mondopinion3777
@mondopinion3777 2 жыл бұрын
"Time is the downhill slope of God's intent, and cause is the joint of flow."
@rebellion54678
@rebellion54678 4 жыл бұрын
Very enlightening ! thank you for this brilliant content.
@EcoTHEgrey
@EcoTHEgrey 3 жыл бұрын
Knowledge very well explained!
@Slimm2240
@Slimm2240 4 жыл бұрын
This channel is underated
@helensmith7596
@helensmith7596 4 жыл бұрын
Im underated
@reason2463
@reason2463 4 жыл бұрын
In 2001, I had a very real motor cycle accident. It resulted in some permanent damage to my right leg. Since then I am reminded every minute of my life that causation is very real indeed and not just a mental construct.
@kevinsayes
@kevinsayes Жыл бұрын
Sorry about your leg, truly. But stating an example of exactly what is being debated doesn’t move the needle at all
@Littleprinceleon
@Littleprinceleon Жыл бұрын
Sorry for that... Technically it was some specific chain of events (only part of what can be called "the accident") that lead to the damage. I hope that something could be learned from those events that helps others and also that you can still lead a life worthy to live. I have a HUGE RESPECT for each kind of activity that involves things faster than a fast ride on bicycle. We've been playing once with a cheap, very HARD frisbee, which was capable of flying rather long distances if thrown with enough POWER. It was me who threw it mostly along the lowest path possible, as that was the most efficient. For reasons, we stood on a hillside, and changed positions, so it wasn't trivial to find the best path. Once I threw it in such direction that a boy standing closer to me, than the intended "target", could intervene. So he attempted to catch the damn thing but it was SPINNING VERY VIGOROUSLY and since it was somewhat sharp at its circumference, he instantly pulled away his hand. That sturdy, energetic frisbee hit him right in the head and resulted in such a wound as if hit by a stone. So the cheerful game had an awfully BLOODY END. Of course this can't be compared to most of the traffic accidents. What I'd like to HIGHLIGHT is: I knew that frisbee the most, as it was mine and played with it a lot. I think most of the players realised it's unusually dangerous properties (I even urged them to be careful) but they had LIMITED EXPERIENCE with it. I threw it sometimes the MOST HARD because I was able to aim it precisely and knew that after the given distance it will loose enough energy to be safely catched. However after a while we all got "enchanted" and many of us tried the limits (that's what puberty is about, eh?!). When more participants of any potentially harmful activity start to loose carefulness also alertness (due to tiredness) then the circumstances can change more quickly than awaited: accident is bound to happen. If I'm not mistaken: majority of motorcycle riders don't get involved in serious accidents (?) What are the major causes that lead to more drastic outcomes? On aikido lessons we spent a lot of time, a huge effort went into learning HOW TO FALL. Are there similar trainings for motorbike raiders? Is that even possible to prepare (a bit) in advance? If that opens up too painful memories, please ignore my comment
@FM-lo9vv
@FM-lo9vv Жыл бұрын
Amazing content, but I must say, the production value is also pretty darn good! Such nice shots, what a delight to watch!! :)
@dougwiles7639
@dougwiles7639 3 жыл бұрын
You couldn't get me to listen to my 11th grade English teacher. At 53 years of age I can't get enough of this.
@candidachii
@candidachii 3 жыл бұрын
thank u for making this video it helps me in my research!
@dag410
@dag410 Жыл бұрын
Outstanding
@ramosthomas9414
@ramosthomas9414 2 жыл бұрын
Keep asking the hardest of questions my brother for all of us we listening
@Jonnygurudesigns
@Jonnygurudesigns 2 жыл бұрын
Quality top tier conversations... this is the place to come too
@assiah71
@assiah71 4 жыл бұрын
Just wow ! Clarity at it best
@weaseldragon
@weaseldragon 4 жыл бұрын
Best apologetics channel on KZfaq!
@daithiocinnsealach3173
@daithiocinnsealach3173 4 жыл бұрын
This is why I am subscribed to this channel. For topics like this. Swinburne rarely looks you in the eye. I'm the exact same. It's not that common. It's often a trait of shyness it seems. Kuhn has very straight shoulders. Swinburne's right shoulder slants at quite a noticeable angle.
@aaron2709
@aaron2709 2 жыл бұрын
Good one.
@4everVillas
@4everVillas 3 жыл бұрын
It's a shame the program didn't interview statisticians who have puzzled over the concept of causation, determinism, and probability for more than 100 years.
@hkumar7340
@hkumar7340 2 жыл бұрын
Right! Especially, the Granddaddy of them all -- Judea Pearl. His books, "Causality: Models, Reasoning and Inference" (for the expert) and "The Book of Why" (for the layman) are the last word on this subject for now.
@terryboland3816
@terryboland3816 Жыл бұрын
They'd be dead by now.
@jozsefnemeth935
@jozsefnemeth935 3 жыл бұрын
Enlightening. Thank you. the examples about the dollar etc work well. Backward causation seems absurd. Changing the notion of space seems less problematic as explained in another video of the series.
@Littleprinceleon
@Littleprinceleon Жыл бұрын
@Islayman what makes any of us able to decide on whatever if future already exists? Sorry, one has to peek into what kinds of experiments are done in QM (eg. a bunch of quantum particles showing non-intuitive probability distributions, or the wave like behaviour of matter particles strongly limited by the mass of the system, it's not that long that systems able to re-cohere are studied ...): QM with all the fields and special dynamics is nowhere near to full understanding of even the simplest systems... Once you start to develop a solid grasp on basic concepts, suddenly you realize how far stretched are many of even the basic interpretations of the measurement problem, not speaking about the extrapolations they make. What the heck is a conscious system in a block universe anyway?
@ajithkumarg3219
@ajithkumarg3219 4 жыл бұрын
This is exactly what I needed to hear while learning Newtonian mechanics. Thank you very much for the content ♥️♥️♥️
@aclearlight
@aclearlight 2 жыл бұрын
Another beautiful, elevated, uplifting inquiry, and a lovely bit of vicarious world travel to boot. Your channel ROCKS!
@hgracern
@hgracern 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent, thanks. No time, no cause. No cause, no beginning. Maybe.
@hassansaeed5633
@hassansaeed5633 2 жыл бұрын
The beginning is the Lord . The Creator
@dennistucker1153
@dennistucker1153 4 жыл бұрын
I love this subject and this video. Thank you CTT.
@malayangrago5628
@malayangrago5628 2 жыл бұрын
Better than cable tv.
@mustafaelbahi7979
@mustafaelbahi7979 4 жыл бұрын
I like the concept of causation, a certain strength of causation that led to the emergence of the world instead of its destruction. This is what we call believers, the uncaused cause or the Lord.
@micatlan
@micatlan 4 жыл бұрын
Great videos, Robert. Thank you much.
@davidgalbraith7367
@davidgalbraith7367 3 жыл бұрын
causation is our way of attributing purpose to the world in a scientific age.
@olbluelips
@olbluelips 2 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed this! But are there really 1500 episodes?!
@AlfredoMazzinghi
@AlfredoMazzinghi 4 жыл бұрын
Great video for a great topic. Thanks Mr. Kuhn for being such a great host! I'd be extremely interested about the same topic seen from a physics point of view.
@dennisalwine4519
@dennisalwine4519 4 жыл бұрын
One of the best CTT episodes!
@richardmarker786
@richardmarker786 4 жыл бұрын
The subject of causation provides the very crux of discovering "bedrock reality". I would love to be able to discuss this with Kuhn. Unfortunately, such a discussion to be of value would almost certainly take more of his time than he would be willing to spare. There exists a fundamental causal mechanism that starts with "something" that has no physical characteristics; and with "nothing" that is absent even the fabric of space itself. It took many decades of pursuing this causal mechanism to arrive at a definitive relationship of such precision to know the path was more than simply a curious exercise in logic. Thank you for a superb video!
@robotaholic
@robotaholic Жыл бұрын
Holy wow at 4 and a half minutes in and this guest is awesome. I'm having one of those moments when you're like who is this guy! I've gotta find more
@cofa4011
@cofa4011 4 жыл бұрын
Beautifull ! Thank you for your work and the upload !
@jamesruscheinski8602
@jamesruscheinski8602 3 жыл бұрын
Causation is one thing / will adding a new experience to another thing / will.
@derektomko1015
@derektomko1015 4 жыл бұрын
I follow all of the concepts in this wonderful series, however I dont understand this particular subject one bit
@muhammadirfanislami818
@muhammadirfanislami818 2 жыл бұрын
Hope we can perceive arguments of causation from statistician too
@alwaysgreatusa223
@alwaysgreatusa223 2 жыл бұрын
Laws of nature are not patterns of things, rather they are the essence of things !
@earthjustice01
@earthjustice01 Жыл бұрын
Excellent move to come back to the theist/atheist divide to understand the divide between seeing causality as a fundamental or seeing it as derivative from human experience. Think of Aristotle's four kinds of cause - formal, efficient, material, and final -... These are four different ways of framing the world to focus on what is really significant or basic in it. What things are made of, what their "essence" is, what brought them into existence, or what purpose was behind it happening. You could say that these describe the four basic ways that we (Aristotle, not me) look at everything. As far as causal processes go, why single out any particular series of events rather than another, and why stop with a cause and effect when the whole structure of causation stretches out to infinity in every direction? Any parsing of reality to understand or explain it must be from a human perception, until such time as we encounter intelligent aliens. I side with Blackburn and the Humeans.
@firstal3799
@firstal3799 2 жыл бұрын
Good duscussion
@stevekane8609
@stevekane8609 2 жыл бұрын
It's much easier to make the case that causation is an illusion than it is to make the case that consciousness is an illusion.
@julianmann6172
@julianmann6172 2 жыл бұрын
Backward causation also resolves freewill V Determinism. Both concepts apply but one is in backward time and the other in forward time. So there is duality on this level.
@adriancioroianu1704
@adriancioroianu1704 Жыл бұрын
?? determinism doesn't "become" free will by inverting the arrow of causation and time, it's still determinism. you just perceive it psychologically as free will if you want.
@firstal3799
@firstal3799 2 жыл бұрын
Causation as asked here is best described as an inexorable and all encompassing chain of events.
@markheller197
@markheller197 4 жыл бұрын
Seemed like a Monty Python skit.
@0626love
@0626love 4 жыл бұрын
haha
@tilik13
@tilik13 4 жыл бұрын
philosophers (aka b.s. artists) are only good for Monty Python skits.
@eucariote79
@eucariote79 4 жыл бұрын
@@tilik13 so you did not understand a thing.
@tilik13
@tilik13 4 жыл бұрын
@@eucariote79 why do you think so, mimzi?
@concernedcitizen780
@concernedcitizen780 2 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure what caused me to watch this.
@ameremortal
@ameremortal 4 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, this is one of the most important questions. It’s something we can actually study.
@demiurge1608
@demiurge1608 4 жыл бұрын
Amere Mortal you can not study it. by definition, the tool you would use to study is science which is based on the cause and effect. So, it would not be an objective quest for truth. does it make sense ?
@sirluoyi2853
@sirluoyi2853 3 жыл бұрын
Join this WhatsApp group for Philosophical discussions... 👇 Link: chat.whatsapp.com/IibF9JUazRF9IExVk5Qmh1
@ameremortal
@ameremortal 3 жыл бұрын
@@demiurge1608 It does, unfortunately.
@dinaray2025
@dinaray2025 3 жыл бұрын
Start sharing his channel!
@putjack3703
@putjack3703 4 ай бұрын
the beginning of causality seems to be mystery, but who knows it came from mystery
@UTArch1
@UTArch1 2 жыл бұрын
Isn't this question the modern equivalent of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
@perfectionbox
@perfectionbox 4 жыл бұрын
Patterns of events are mandatory for consciousness to function. Observers will always find themselves in a causal reality.
@kimsahl8555
@kimsahl8555 3 жыл бұрын
Causation is a potential going to a realization and a realization going to a potential.
@Nickelodeon81
@Nickelodeon81 2 жыл бұрын
Q "Can't we just all get along??" A "That would violate causation."
@9Ballr
@9Ballr 4 жыл бұрын
It's not clear that Hume is a skeptic about the metaphysics of causation, but he is a skeptic about our knowledge of causation, because he thinks that we cannot properly ground our claim that there is a necessary connection between causes and their effects in sense experience.
@davibro
@davibro Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was wondering about that as well. How do you think it could be grounded?
@dm.6133
@dm.6133 3 жыл бұрын
Energy transforms and moves as a river finding the path of less resistance.
@stevenmartinellimusic
@stevenmartinellimusic 2 жыл бұрын
I have some great examples of overdetermination that actually happened to me in fairly close succession.
@billybhoy32
@billybhoy32 2 жыл бұрын
What is the piece of music called at the start?
@HeliumXenonKrypton
@HeliumXenonKrypton 4 жыл бұрын
How can I buy these videos on DVD ?
@deandsouza
@deandsouza Жыл бұрын
Love this series. I wish that for this episode, however, he would discuss causation with a scientist such as theoretical physicist Sean Carroll. But really nice hearing all these different perspectives.
@followyourbliss973
@followyourbliss973 6 ай бұрын
A basebal breaks a window, it makes a loud noise, people come out to see what happened, somebody gets in trouble, somebody feels guilty, the glass must be ckeaned up, the window must be repaired, the repair costs money, somebody has to pay, somebody learns a lesson, on and on and on!
@hamzahbakouni6208
@hamzahbakouni6208 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Maybe one need a unifying quantum gravity theory to better depict reality and understand causation, whether it is a fundamental element of reality or a one among other mental constructs.
@zgobermn6895
@zgobermn6895 2 жыл бұрын
Causation is primitive. I'm with Swinburne here.
@discogodfather22
@discogodfather22 4 жыл бұрын
Causation is a concept based on time, which is still the least talked about or well defined concept in physics. No one has seen or proposed a subatomic carrier particle for time or an intrinsic field theory. Ask a physicist what time is and they will give you a series of indirect answers. "Timespace" is usually the accepted concept., which analyzes the geometry of it, but nothing else. What is time specifically? If it's the thing we are all confused about and hung up on, maybe as a construct of reality that doesn't exist, maybe this explains causality. If everything happens at once in reality, there is no need for time, and no need for causes.
@dottedrhino
@dottedrhino 3 жыл бұрын
I agree largely with mr. Armstrong. In fact, I thought exactly these things out and now I hear mr. Armstrong saying them. :)
@johnpayne7873
@johnpayne7873 2 жыл бұрын
Just beautiful, Robert! My thoughts: If experience is wired to the phenomenon of causation and (Aristotlean) logic - our most reliable tool for studying experience - fundamentally embeds cause through the construct of propositional statements, aren’t we trapped in desconstructing the nature of cause?
@caricue
@caricue 2 жыл бұрын
I really liked this video myself. My conclusion is that the concept of causation is being used backwards in many cases. It is very helpful and enlightening to look for causes to explain observations or experiences, but you get in trouble when you take these imagined "causes" and try to use them to judge nature. What you observe or experience is assumed to exist, but your explanation is just an opinion that is subject to being revised or rejected based on new data.
@markuspfeifer8473
@markuspfeifer8473 3 жыл бұрын
Causation is an effective language that turns a description of the universe of the form "t -> X" into the form "e -> (X -> X)". The former is great when you try to answer how a system evolves in general, the latter is great when you try to answer how events or actions affect the evolution. The former is like having a computer program that is completely evaluated at compile time and presented to the user as some kind of movie, the latter provides an interface to the user so the user can interact with the program (which necessarily means that some parts are evaluated at runtime). The former tries to be objective and assumes a passive observer, the latter is somewhat subjective and permits an active experimentator. The former allows for continuous time, the latter inherently has time quantized into events.
@JeffChen285
@JeffChen285 4 жыл бұрын
Causality is a fundamental nature of mental logic. Without it, mountain goats will jump off cliffs without hesitation. In other words, the phenomenon of life shall be characterized as causal purpose, not only purpose. Nature laws shall have their own full-scale causalities, not necessarily be fully compatible with human mental causality though. Therefore, using terms such as pattern to deny the causality of the physical world is self-deceiving.
@realnumber9show326
@realnumber9show326 3 жыл бұрын
Every cause has an effect! This is a universal law
@rohmann000
@rohmann000 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but this is a rather trivial observation; the relevant and important question is why it is supposedly a universal law, and on what grounds it can be so described, discovered, or conceived.
@ledgermanager
@ledgermanager 2 жыл бұрын
a new thought ; you do know the max speed = the transfer(or transmission) rate of causality so all that goes slower then the speed of light is under the same hood, bound to causality.. then there is a gap, the size of a (maybe that famous) planck length, that any 'causal tick'(lack of better word) has to jump before it gives you that transmission . it has to buildup tension to jump that gap, thats why black holes are weird, gaps are gone, no jumps whatsoever all is one big soup of causal incoherence
@DistortedV12
@DistortedV12 4 жыл бұрын
Causation can be formally described by mathematics, it is a model that is able to predict the effect of interventions or a prediction model that correctly adjusts for confounders. No philosophical speculation is needed or theist vs atheist concepts.
@nicolasargon1436
@nicolasargon1436 4 жыл бұрын
Can you say more? Or point to resources that explain this more thoroughly? I'm very interested!
@kimsahl8555
@kimsahl8555 3 жыл бұрын
Causation is the alternation between a state and a state change.
@jmzorko
@jmzorko 3 жыл бұрын
One of the best things about CTT is that, for every episode about total bunk ideas like ESP and whether it exists or not, there are at least a dozen episodes, like this one, about _far_ more worthy and interesting questions.
@2000yearOldYogiAspirant
@2000yearOldYogiAspirant 4 жыл бұрын
I wonder if Rupert Spira has ever been on 'Closer to Truth' and if not I'd like seeing it
@goranjohansson2495
@goranjohansson2495 2 жыл бұрын
Causation is the development of a dynamical system from one state to another governed by the evaluation rules of that particular system
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns 2 жыл бұрын
Introducing backward causation doesn’t undermine *causation;* it undermines the uni-directionality of time. But the very idea of backward causation presupposes causation. It’s in the name lol. Causation is a subcategory of explanation, a category we can’t get rid of per certain formulation of PSR, which Ed Feser defends brilliantly in his 2017 “Five Proofs” book (in the chapter on the Rationalist Proof).
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns 2 жыл бұрын
Ps. I know that Feser denies backward causation, but he’s just wrong about that. It’s not merely theoretical, as there’s experimental evidence for it! But his case for PSR remains solid.
@gr33nDestiny
@gr33nDestiny 4 жыл бұрын
Geez, the weather is really bad here
@MichaelDembinski
@MichaelDembinski 2 жыл бұрын
This show was originally aired in 2015.
@lalsenarath
@lalsenarath 9 ай бұрын
Causation is also probability! Let me explain. When you throw a stone at the window, the window always breaks is wrong! most probably it will break, out of many other things that can happen. It can be shown better the striking of a billiard ball, we provide a smooth top for the ball to roll, the table is well prepaired, the ball is perfectly round, ... etc. etc. So as humans we have prepaired the situation by minimising the probabilty of other things happening. But not all, a pilot training an air plan might crash on the building! We always tend to forget that the place of the experiment is carefully prepared by the experimenter to minimize the probability!
@jesusbermudez6775
@jesusbermudez6775 Жыл бұрын
the future cannot change the past. If the future changes the past, what is happening is that an event in the future is changing an event further into the future.
@earthjustice01
@earthjustice01 Жыл бұрын
Sinnott-Armstrong: "the idea is that abstract things can cause concrete physical things..."causation exists at a higher level of generality." "I am adding a new level of description, a new way of classifying physical states or neural states that did not exist without the mental terminology." "Both the mental description and the physical description have a role to play in the causal account of what happened....But if you don't think in terms of contrastive kinds of causation you'll miss all that, and then mental causation will look like a mystery."
@earthjustice01
@earthjustice01 Жыл бұрын
Re: Sinnot-Armstrong and "Contrastive causality": It's not two kinds of causality, it's two kinds of epistemology: knowledge of the physical world and knowledge of human values and meaning.
@earthjustice01
@earthjustice01 Жыл бұрын
Huw Price: " The most plausible answer is that the direction of causality has a subjective element to it." "...we are projecting onto the world, the assymetric temporal perspective that we have as agents." " We are always reasoning from the past to our present situation..." Einstein's relativity: no perspective is absolute. When we prioritize forward time we are projecting human concerns.
@johnbrzykcy3076
@johnbrzykcy3076 4 жыл бұрын
"the necessity lies in ourselves rather than in the events." Very interesting. Also "backwards causation" is a deeply challenging idea. Has anyone read about these theories?
@delq
@delq 4 жыл бұрын
I think causation is delusional - backwards or forwards. When you think about it, the illusion of causation can be pretty much summed up in a couple of perceptions we have evolved as humans, for example if we hold a glass and be at the verge of deciding wether to drop and break it or to not drop it and still have the glass and in such a situation it feels like the fate of the glass ie broken or not is entirely at our disposal and our alone even though the glass could simply break (can) without we doing anything. Also it adds more importance or substance to our decision the fact that we know from experience really well that droping it would definitely break it and wont otherewise, even when that too is totally possible.
@BuddyLee23
@BuddyLee23 4 жыл бұрын
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrocausality
@SabiazothPsyche
@SabiazothPsyche 2 жыл бұрын
Causation = impact. And reaction = agent.
@mikedziuba8617
@mikedziuba8617 4 жыл бұрын
Causation is basically making something happen. Which requires some kind of a mechanism that connects the cause and effect this way. Sometimes this causal mechanism is very simple and straightforward. But more often, effects have multiple causes and very complicated mechanisms that connect each cause to the effect. You can find all kinds of patterns in event sequences using statistical correlations. But most of such correlations don't have a causal relationship, even though one follows the other in time. Because quite often, there is some third hidden cause that first causes the first event and then the second. That's why people say correlation isn't causation. So, just finding a sequence pattern doesn't necessarily mean that there is a causal relationship between the first event and the second. To establish a causal relationship, you need to describe a mechanism of how one event causes the other. And you need to show beyond reasonable doubt this mechanism exists and it works the way you say it works. "How?" is the question any claim of a causal relationship must answer. Because if you don't describe and explain the mechanism of how it happens, then there is no way to tell if your pattern is just a correlation, or if it has a causal relationship. It's the mechanism that establishes the causal relationship. So, it's no so much a question of whether causation exists. It's a question of whether a mechanism exists that enables one event to cause another. And this question you can answer only through scientific investigations for each seeming cause and effect.
@jrd33
@jrd33 4 жыл бұрын
Good post, but science assumes causation. It can't investigate it, by definition.
@mikedziuba8617
@mikedziuba8617 4 жыл бұрын
When you describe the mechanism of how one event makes another event happen and show beyond reasonable doubt that this mechanism exists and it works like this in every experiment, then this is experimental evidence and not an assumption. An assumption is when you make an untestable and an unfalsifiable statement and assume that it's true. But this clearly isn't the case when describe a mechanism of how one event makes another event happen, and show with various experiments that this mechanism actually exists and it works the way you say it works. Because if this mechanism doesn't exist or doesn't work the way you say it works, then the experiments will show it. And other people can test it too independently of you. Perhaps the problem here isn't the answer. The problem is the question. It's a badly worded question that uses an abstract word which doesn't describe what exactly it is that you are looking for. Albert Einstein once said, “ If I had an hour to solve a problem and my life depended on the solution, I would spend the first 55 minutes determining the proper question to ask, for once I know the proper question, I could solve the problem in less than five minutes.” www.gurteen.com/gurteen/gurteen.nsf/id/determining-the-proper-question I think you can remove the word 'causation' and just talk about one event making another event happen through some kind of a mechanism that can be tested and shown to work in various experiments. And then you don't have any philosophical dilemma to worry about. It's just a mundane scientific question about whether one event plays a role in making another event happen or not.
@HeliumXenonKrypton
@HeliumXenonKrypton 3 жыл бұрын
To understand causation you must first do this. Assume that the discrete set {0,1} and the continuous open interval (0,1) are Equivalent, in the same philosophical sense as Relativity. As soon as you make this assumption, you obtain the mathematical and philosophical tools which are necessary to understand causation, and you will immediately understand it. This video is really quite excellent and all of the people are clearly very smart and well read but in fact they are going around in circles with no end. The only way to possess truth is by letting go of it and then it will be yours. We cannot know if the universe is deterministic or stochastic, it is profoundly indeterminate. Either of these may be validly assumed and this creates the illusion that one or the other must be correct, but this line of reason is actually exactly 1/2 wrong because both are equally valid. Causation can be modelled deterministically, or stochastically. Both are simultaneously valid because the Equivalence mentioned above creates a profound ambiguity ... and that's why both are simultaneously valid. As soon as this is realized, modelling makes more sense and the whole thing is easily solvable. Once this is understood, you will have arrived at truth, a truth which does not exist due to a kind of profound incompleteness, a profound ambiguity which is inherent to spacetime and all of reality. You're welcome.
@partydean17
@partydean17 3 жыл бұрын
I need a video on probability. I do not understand it and it drives me crazy. Why are things random?!
@esharcismail5793
@esharcismail5793 2 жыл бұрын
Thought provoking causation...
@dondreytaylor8001
@dondreytaylor8001 3 жыл бұрын
Each explanation of causation that was given in this all sound convincing- I'm so confused lol
@cristianm7097
@cristianm7097 2 жыл бұрын
A circular labyrinth of words.
@cristianm7097
@cristianm7097 2 жыл бұрын
@Geegee Poo Not necessarily. The humans' comprehension of reality might be inherently limited, while reality can still be real, not a sim
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