Awesome. I hope this edifies you.

@@apologiautah Yes indeed. Though I already believed the sky/cosmos/heaven tri-level that the bible teaches you guys explain differently that adds to my understandings. I never thought of using Isaiah to express the cosmos. I normally lean to 1 Kings and Solomon's prayer where he says The heavens, even the highest heaven cannot contain you.

Thanks em!

@@FarmFedSoul I wouldn’t get so caught up in this denomination vs that one. I actually disagree with your opinion of them in the street in that there are “two” Andrews. I don’t find them offensive or narcissistic. And that’s all I will say. Your opinion vs mine. That’s fine. I’m not here to argue that, nor do I think you should invest any time in that either. But is Mormonism not a false gospel with a different Jesus that cannot save? Is it not a doctrine of demons? Do we really care about these Mormons enough to tell them the truth? I suspect Andrew would take more time and use a different approach if he were to sit down with missionaries than the 30 minute random encounter on the street. The gospel is offensive. The cross is offensive. No one wants to hear that they’ve invested their entire life in a lie. But the funny thing is, Mormon missionaries do that very thing everywhere they go. They’re just super polite about it. I don’t fault them for it, but that is, in fact, what they are doing. They come to me to tell me I am wrong and I don’t have the truth. So I talk to them.

@@FarmFedSoul if you truly believe there are legitimate contradictions in the books of the Bible, then I’d say you have a lot to study. I suspect you’ve fallen victim to this idea that different churches/denominations teach totally different doctrines. I’m not a Calvinist, but I don’t see any false teachings from Apologia, nor do I believe Calvinism is heresy. I believe water baptism means fully submerged in water, but if a church baptizes by sprinkling, is that another gospel? Tongues is an actual language, but if a church makes those random babbles, are they therefore unsaved and preaching another Jesus? Of course not. This is different from saying Jesus is our literal brother born from a God who was once a man. In regards to God always being God, Joseph Smith said, “I will refute that idea…” Mormonism is something entirely different. It is diametrically opposed to Christianity. Though Mormons use many of the same words, they mean entirely different things. That is why I say it’s a false gospel, another Jesus, and is a doctrine of demons.

@@FarmFedSoul and when I say offensive, I don’t mean bad. Jesus absolutely was offensive to the Pharisees. People are offended at the idea that they could possibly be sinners in need of forgiveness. Paul briefly mentions the” offense” of the cross in Galatians 5:11, but not to say that the cross is somehow just offensive to people.

@@FarmFedSoul just saw your other comment about seeds. Again, this is just going to be a difference of opinion on how they conduct themselves. I do wonder, though, if you were to take the time to learn what Mormons have taught for nearly two hundred years, and are very much now trying to perform a “facelift”, if it would change your perspective. I’ve had Mormon missionaries say things to me that have had me thinking, “That is the most blasphemous, satanic thing I’ve ever heard in my life.” And I have to choose my words carefully, sometimes indirectly addressing what they just said.

Solid content, but I agree, music is distracting and dramatic. Needs to go, or at least be replaced.

​@FarmFedSoul I wish they would respond. The question I ask myself so much lately is why do people worship God when they believe he allow most of his creation to be infinitely tortured for a finite life of sin. People are put into situations that foster their beliefs, people are fallible thinkers and most people are not trying to rebel against God. They tell me it is because God is infinitely Holy but I can't make sense of that in my brain. Is Hitler infinitely Holy? He wanted to get rid of all the "impure" people. What is Holy? The only conclusions I can make are: Evangelicals don't allow themselves to think this through, they are scared of God to the point where they can not question, or they could not care less about the majority of mankind after this life, meaning their love is temporary for most people. As long as they are happy in Heaven, who cares about those in Hell. That type of thinking scares me more than anything. But if God is the way they describe, everyone should be terrified to the point of not being able to eat or sleep. It means most people will be tortured in fire for eternity or equivalent despair.

@FarmFedSoul Thank you. I have faith in Jesus Christ. I have felt his love and forgiveness in my life and I know it is through his atonement I am saved. But...I am a Mormon... Does that influence your mind about me? I have been taught from a young age that everyone who has or will ever exist is a child of God. This has instilled in me the knowledge that God loves me but more importantly, he also loves everyone else as much as he loves me. I want to love ALL people like I know God loves all people. In drawing conclusions from this conviction, I can only believe his mercy will match his judgement and that salvation is very much an individual affair and not just a binary decision based on belief (Hell or Heaven). We will all go where we feel most comfortable and/or become who we want to become. Some will love and serve all people there, even those who choose different paths. Heaven won't be easy for those who desire charity for all and will live their existence for others and not themselves . It will most definitely be easier for those who only care about themselves and those like them, who want peace, comfort and easiness, to eat, drink and be Merry for eternity. It is like a stab in the heart everytime someone tells me I believe in the wrong Jesus. I believe in the Jesus I read about in the Bible. I have felt the spirit testify that he is my Savior. I just have a different perspective. I would have no idea how to worship a God who will not save most of his creation because their understanding is fallible in certain ways. It would ruin me. And it is confusing to me why it does not ruin other people. I don't mean to judge. I just don't understand. What is Heaven to you?

Even given the definition of hell which there are many different views on, let's go with infinite torture as you describe it just to be as generous to your view as possible. What does the Bible say about sin in man? We are enslaved to it and only with Christ can we be set free. So if an unreconciled sinner is sinning now and doesn't repent, nowhere does it say that people stop sinning when they are in hell. Without Christ there is no sanctification, so what about being enslaved to sin is finite without Jesus Christ? People who reject the Gospel have made their decision that they would rather live in sin than submit to the authority of Christ, it's not like they are going to change their mind and come to repentance while in hell being just as separated from God as they themselves wanted to be here on earth, thus eternal. Hopefully that helps answer why someone would still follow a God that is "unfair". God Himself has stated His justice is perfect. So any questions of fairness should just be thrown away to begin with. No human concept of fairness can even be compared to the fairness of God. The fact the grace of Jesus Christ exists for us in the first place is in itself unfair and we should view God with reverence and gratitude for it. If you genuinely want peace with God, keep seeking Him and He will find you. It seems the struggle still lies in not trusting what God has said as if you truly believe that the God of the Bible is who He says He is, then these issues you raised should be answered by the same Holy Scripture that raised them in the first place (and they are).

​@@titandinoThank you for replying. However, do not judge me

​​@@titandinoI appreciate your answer. Three questions: 1) why does God take common grace from people after this very short life. If he was love, would he not provide some grace to those in "Hell." I get that Hell is sin, but everyone experiences the grace of God in this life. Why worship a God who will take every bit of common grace away from most people after this life? 2) How do you know the Bible is infallible? There can be mistakes as it was written by men. Why not give God the benefit of the doubt in thinking his love actually makes sense for all people? *degrees of hell or heaven. 3) I am Mormon so you probably think I am rejecting the God of the Bible which is simply NOT true. I want to be with God forever, I have accepted the Atonement of Christ and yet Evangelicals will say I am rejecting the "right Christ" because I allow myself to think about these things (things like degrees of Glory and different definitions of Hell/damnation). More importantly, I am willing to live forever without the ease and comfort that attracts Evangelicals to heaven, just to love ALL of God's creation wherever they may be (heaven/hell). Each of God's creation (each person) is loved by God and if that is the case, I will eternally love them too. That is eternal charity, the pure love of Christ. And that is the Mormon perspective. Will you care about the majority that you think will be in Hell, after this life? Or will you forget about them, relishing in your happy carefree state because God saved you?