Dan Barker is such a respectful, well spoken person

Good lord, Mack is lost in his own world like most Christian Apologists.

Nice discussion. Good to see you here dan barker

Mack has to be the most shallow, bumper-sticker apologist I've heard on this channel.

Andy (Christian host) tries to be neutral and asks a question regarding the apparent disconnect between 'justice' and 'eternal punishment' at the 1:06:27 mark, and the Christian guest goes into full preaching-mode (as he did with Dan) and completely avoids the question that was actually raised. He's simply incapable of addressing matters that many Christians themselves genuinely struggle with. I think this is one of the main reasons why so many Christians in the West don't attend churches anymore and rely on online apologetics instead.

Dan was so obviously right about the fact Jesus told a lie. The push back from that made zero sense!

How is it that EVERY time the atheist is more informed in Christianity than the christian!!?

Salvation is an appeal to barbarism. Exchanging ones culpability to gain a benefit is absolutely barbaric

Talk about kindness, Dan Barker is showing what it is like to care about other people. Where Mack is more concerned about the Bible and how he will go to Heaven. This was more of a individual response compared to one of mass appeal.

is it just me, or is Mack Stiles a dead ringer for the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz? 🙂 no offence Mack. Dan Barker is winning this debate hands down IMHO

You can't use one scripture to prove another scrioture

“Jesus is truth”? What does that mean? If someone tells me the sun is 20 million miles from Earth, how do I apply Jesus to tell whether or not that is true? Wouldn’t I go out into the real world and check that claim against reality, exactly like Dan said we determine truth? He was right that Mack’s definition is incoherent.

17:53 - 19:28 In order to take anything that you said seriously, you first have to prove heaven exists

No, no, no no! No one goes to Hell for not believing, they go to Hell because they have rebelled against their Creator, because they hate their Creator.

Really sounds like God is a a very horrific dictator... I don't know what he has planed/designed for the different type of tortures and sufferings in his so called 'hell'... lots of sufferings and pain I am sure... it will be bloody and wouldn't be pretty and could be worse than watching the 'Saw' movie.

“Since the masses of the people are inconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate, and reckless of consequences, they must be filled with fears to keep them in order. The ancients did well, therefore, to invent gods, and the belief in punishment after death.” Roman historian, Polybius.

If i was a Christian after listening to this i would run a mile from it

Funny enough, the thing is that perhaps a large part of the so called brokenness of today is more likely to be related to onset of extreme capitalism of which Christian alongside of colonization served to help deliver. Along with squabbles that are bound to arise due to differences related to religion and the way how these squabble are often the basis for shunning, ostracization and then associated C-PTSD , which may lead to drug and alcohol abuse, and then in the larger scope of the whole picture onward to homelessness and widespread feeling of despair. As well as more crime. Plus being behind the basis for wars If Jesus would need to be the only basis there'd be to avoid "brokenness", i would dearly like to see Mack Stiles explain why Daniel Everett didn't discover a bunch of terribly broken Pirahã people when he'd originally gone to live among them with intention to attempt to convert them to Christianity. Why not, Mack Stiles? Even in Gaza and Israel today, if only the young children there in those places would be delivered "true" liberty of faith and religion, so as to have true freedom to choose for themselves. While being protected from the nastiness of "liberty of faith" alongside of "liberty of faith abuse" which sadly today is still being accepted as being about absolutely nothing more than liberty of faith alone. Similar situation applies also in the USA. Even there, liberty of faith alone is interpreted as being liberty of faith + liberty of abuse. As if "faith and abuse" should be acceptable as being like one and the same thing Perhaps Jesus would even be utterly disgusted, today, would he be able to still be around. But not because people didn't follow him. But because the situation as it stands is obviously so utterly foolish. And is absolutely disgraceful Believers allow religion to deliver brokenness. Then they try to blame this brokenness back on the non believers

Dan Barker get destroyed here -he showed that good exist...

Hey Dan ,keep spreading the light in the night of superstition,more power to you!

Romans 5:13- “Where there is no (Old Covenant) law, sin is not taken into account.” This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which was only ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death, which is no one alive today.

I wish Mack could understand how grotesque and miserable he sounds to anyone outside his dogma, but I don’t think he can.

As always, Dan makes perfect sense to me. I could tell from watching Mack that he wasn't interested in what Dan had to say and did not address anything that Dan said. He just quoted words allegedly spoken by his invisible friend Jesus that gave him comfort. Very disappointing. Thanks to Andy for hosting these two.

Interesting discussion about morals. Dan is right that out of the 10 commandments 3/4 of them are no longer thought of as sins & I stopped coverting my neighbours slaves years ago ! But Mack must be aware that there are 613 commandments in the Old Testament all together such as to men not to use a razor to cut their beards & no. 60 which I do like , Not to be superstitious-Leviticus 19:26 ! Now the Jews only observe 270 of the commandments & for sure they no longer stone people to death for disobeying any. So it is obvious that mans own sense of morals & common sense overides what ' God' originally instructed. Interestingly I note that the main 10 commandments doesn't mention lying or being dishonest or not keeping slaves. Perhaps they need to be updated !

34:48 Why would your opinion matter to people if you don’t meet them where they are?

33:57 - 34:09 How is this not your opinion ?

I was hoping for a more purposeful discussion on the metaphysics kf truth and epistemology.

Mr. Stiles didn't seem very curious or interested in responding to Mr. Barker's points. Rather, Mr. Stiles was defensive & his reactions didn't serve his side well.

46:54 - 47:07 Your God, does it matter to me you need to explain why it should

What about the other 16 jesus befor jesus.

EVEN IF EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE is true, NONE OF IT pertains to anyone alive today. The Bible is the story of Yahweh’s fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to the ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today, soteriologically nor eschatologically speaking. Here’s more… If you believe the Bible, then you’d have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You’d have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the Old Covenant law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as “heaven and earth “) passed away. You’d have to agree with history that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD70. You’d have to agree with Paul, who said in Romans 5:13, “Where there is no (Old Covenant) law, sin is not taken into account.” This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which was only ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death, which is not us today. You’d also have to agree with Hebrews 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again…is not us today. The bitter pill of truth is that no one has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The “church today” has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking’s of ancient Israel’s exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible. “But…but…I’m a gentile!” Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who were dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple’s great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort. Today’s so-called Christians have been hoodwinked into believing they’re sinners under a law that passed away and need a savior who said he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that’s already been removed and a judgement that already happened and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is we today were never and will never be part of ancient Israel’s exclusive redemptive narrative, the Bible. ~ Michael Bradley

Any body can prove that "GOD" does not exist, as long as the definition of that "GOD" will not change seconds later. By the way what kind of gospel is that of John 3:16 that ONLY those who believe in Jesus gets saved ? That is not true or "unconditional love" that is a selfish love. Read carefully !

All Biblical promises were given only to ancient Israelites. See Romans 9:4.

After watching Mack here today with his glazed eyed expression and his robotic chanting of bible quotes, I can think of few others that better fuel the argument that a religious belief is akin to a mental illness such as schizophrenia ! Both being equally corrosive to the mind and both having an equally powerful internal mechanism for self-preservation and perpetuation of the particular delusion at it's heart. Dan was far too charitable towards this nauseatingly passive aggressive, "Holier than thou" individual, in my opinion. It reminds me of the joke about the parents deeply concerned about their teenage son's strange behaviour: Mother to husband: I'm so worried about Jimmy, he's nearly eighteen and he still believes the invisible dragon that has slept at the foot of his bed since he was a baby, is real !! "I think we should pray for him"............

Dan failed to mention the torture and cannibalism that were common practices amongst many of the northeastern tribes such as the Iroquois. In the south the Aztecs routinely ripped out the hearts of their victims as a part of their glorious indigenous religion. The Incas sacrificed their infants. Yes there were some peaceable Native peoples and yes some of the Europeans did commit terrible acts of violence. By and large the history of humanity is a blood bath punctuated by some brief glimmers of light. The net impact of Christianity on the world is overwhelmingly positive.

You nominally ask "What is Truth?" Truth is a correlation between an assertoric sentence in a language and a state of affairs in reality. For example, "The cat is black" is true (in English) if and only if the cat actually is black. What you guys are talking about not an answer to the question in your title. You're dealing with a very different question: "What is true?" in relation to set of theological assertions often made by Christians.

Truth is Jesus...what?

Dan did an amazing job pointing out the immorality in the bible. There was not really any good push back from Mack. The painfully obvious bias from the moderator was not appreciated but I appreciated having Dan on so you break even lol

EVEN I SAW AND MET GOD JESUS CHRIST IN REAL WITH HIS BLESSING AND I WAS HINDU BEFORE BUT BECAME ETERNAL CHRISTIAN. TRULY BIBLE IS THE ONLY LIVING WORD OF THE GREAT LIVING GOD ✝️❤️

I think the concept of emergent space-time and the inquiry into consciousness gives good inference that something like a God exists.

If millions of people believe X, then X is true. Sounds reasonable! Not!

Can you stand the Truth ?

Yikes, I never thought I’d feel more sympathetic to Dan Barker in a debate/discussion, yet here we are. Dan makes typical atheistic arguments, and then Mack ignores the question and preaches the gospel. Mack seems incapable of considering opposite beliefs and rebutting them. The whole “we live in a post truth world” makes absolutely zero sense. Dan’s arguments weren’t that great, but he received no competent responses. Mack did not represent Christianity well in this discussion.

I’m not sure why Unbelievable chose to match a strident atheist who aggressively attacks Christianity with a pastor who admits he isn’t keen on apologetics and debate, and who even states that his book and the focus of his discussion are not for people like Dan. It was very frustrating to see Dan so grossly misrepresent Christ, the Bible and history in such a manipulative way and go essentially unchallenged. It is laughable that Dan would actually accuse Jesus of saying immoral things or lying because he talked about “chopping off body parts”‘ and because he told people if they prayed in name if the name of the Father they would receive “all things” Clearly Dan doesn’t understand hyperbole, context, or any working understanding of hermeneutics. It’s scary that he was actually a pastor at one time.

I used to be like this christian fellow. Its sad to see how brainwashed he is to this mythology. And worship a tyrant like yahweh. People cant see this is man made writings, no god involved

24:00 studies have shown the opposite of that.

Mack, you keep talking about salvation, and how broken this world is, and how bad things are, but Jesus or God doesn't show up to help or fix this world. You have to wait til you die and only if you believe Jesus is messiah, then you'll get salvation after death. So dumb!!

And the other guy was absolutely right.Bringing up the doctrine of discovery and the genocide of the indigenous peoples of these lands that his people stole

Every single point put forward by Dan Barker is a blatant lie

22:00 bringing up colonialism, strong point, but likely romanticized.

Well that's disappointing. The Christian is getting more and more dishonest and frankly childish as this goes on and he realizes how poorly his arguments are holding up. Predictable but still disappointing.

No Dan, morality is not boiled down to "harm". That you would utter such blatant nonsense is further evidence no one should take you seriously.

As much as I respect Dan and his life journey, he is the type of atheist one cannot take seriously. In fact, he represents the type of atheism that is stuck in the things it doesn't believe and has nothing to say about how to move society further. He is incapable of answering any questions without attacking Christianity. Emotional atheism all the way through. Mack interrupted the conversation a few times though, it wasn't a conversation to remember unfortunately.

By the way the Bible never forbade “interracial marriage.”’ That is a blatant lie. Moses’ wife was African and some of the most honored people in the Bible are Ruth (from Moab) and Rahab (a God fearing woman from Jericho) who married Israelite men and became ancestors of both David and Christ. God didn’t want the Israelites to marry outside of the FAITH so their FAITH would not be defiled. Part of the wonderful indigenous culture of the Canaanites for example was sacrificing their children to Molech, and when the Israelites intermarried with them they started doing the same. It was the false Gods of the other religions that were demanded unfairness and cruelty. That is why the God of Israel lovingly forbade idolatry!! Also the 10 commandments were indeed revolutionary and the laws given by God to the people of Israel elevated women tremendously above the status quo if that time.

Once one leaves the faith i suspect theists seem like children to the nones.

39:00 brings up "the most evil thing" in the bible. Idolatry, not keeping the sabbath, and inter-racial marriage. He incorrectly defines idolatry as beleiving other religions, but it is more accurately defiend as putting a thing in the highest value. Then old-testament and old testament....ohhh But Mack's answer is a bit weak. He could have defined the Good that is God and how Dan sees God as a modified Zues. When, theologically, the God of the Bible is far more than that

Dan is not an atheist. Rather he has converted to the God that is his ego.

The Bible is deep and wide. If you don't understand it, make the effort.

HERE IT IS LIKE - TWO THIEF ON CROSS WITH OUR GOD JESUS CHRIST ONE BELIEVED AND OTHER WAS PROVE PROVE PROVE .. EVERY ONE KNOW THEIR FATE WHAT HAPPENED THEN ✝️❤️

Dan is a master straw man builder. I liked this episode ( kinda, in a strange way) even tho the two guests were mismatched. One more thing I wanted to mention, and it's only my personal observation, Dan seems to be one of those bitter, angry with God ex-Christian atheists.

Dan Barker has no idea how to interpret Scripture. He had no buisness being a preacher in the first place.

Perhaps the worst episode by this channel. Name one take-away from this sorry discussion. Mack just preaches Ray Comfort style and the host just let's Dan's arguments go unaddressed. Painful and boring. It is so obvious that Jesus' claim to be the truth requires elaboration and specification (the bible quote claims he is the Way to salvation, his message is True, following him leads to Life, ) yet Mack seems satisfied to simply quote the bible rather than have a discussion with someone who disagrees with these claims. Disgusting waste of time.

I came here from Spotify. Contrary to most Atheists on this video, Barker sounds like he's got a massive chip on the shoulder for not doing due diligence before he start speaking against science when he started out as a Christian preacher. Barker's explanation of scripture sounds like he has far removed the history and culture from it. And I see what he's trying to do by divorcing religious beliefs and moral standards. As a former Atheist, I would say Barker's POV seems so narrow evolution couldn't occur from it if his POV was organic. And Barker is far from pleasant and nice: He's quite rude and adversarial in his speech. He claims science is not always true but he asserts his stance as an absolute, without any allowance, as stalwart as Dawkins. While he says he's thinking nothing bad about Stiles, his tone suggests he's contemptuous. And unfortunately, he hasn't considered in depth how every religion has good and bad stuff, just as philosophy. The problem is that Barker has thrown out entirely wherever he's come from and take a superior stance against religion. All Stiles seems to be sharing with him about is what he doesn't understand about Scripture because he's got a closed mind.

Don Barker reminds me of Judah... Whole life he was with Lord Jesus but in last days he was fooled by Demonic lies...As he betrayed Lord Jesus Christ . ✝️❤️ √ He also reminds me of Peter as he denied Lord Jesus Christ inspite knowing truth, but He repented and came back to Lord Jesus Christ .. √ He also reminds of the two thief on Cross... One believed and one inspite knowing truth rejected Lord Jesus Christ... Still He accepted Peter with all His heart ..How Great He is.. Sadly again the biggest deceiver of the world Satan the Devil deceived Don Barker and his end is in Lake of fire... Never do Judah, thief on Cross and Don Barker mistake and don't give oppurtunity to devil... GOD bless you

In my opinion, about religion is as fictional. Jesus is a fictional character so is there god

So much credulity in ancient texts. People are so stupid!

Dan was so obviously right about the fact Jesus told a lie. The push back from that made zero sense!