Palpatine was so gifted that he mastered all lightsaber stances even though he has stated that he hates using them, now that's dedication to being the best.

Palpatine and Dooku were roughly the same age. I like to imagine if Palps had made it to the order, he Dooku would’ve been friends and would’ve both gone down the path of the dark side together. Imagine something akin to Revan and Malak, but much much darker.

Dooku, unlike Palpatine, was not a psychopath. We saw him feeling remorse and guilt a couple of times. Palps... was simply everything a good man should never be.

What if Darth Plagueis had tried to manipulate the midi-chlorians not once, but twice, in fact. The _second_ time he did this was the result of Anakin Skywalker's conception. But the *_FIRST_* time - the _first_ time he did so, Plagueis had indirectly caused the birth of the immaculate vessel for the Dark Side of the Force itself: Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious. And the most ironic thing about this is, that Plagueis himself never even realized it.

You know, after seeing this video i think that Palpatine being a former Jedi turned Senator could have been a great alternative backstory for him.

Always a great character, I just feel he lacked a final goal. Didn't Vitiate contemplate destroying all life once his empire peaked? Seems like a "natural" progression. Nihilus would've consumed everything, Sion would've fought and killed any and all lightside beings, Sidious would've just chilled in a throne forever?

With the Nature V Nurture argument in mind, I'd like to think that it was his Nature to be great with the Force, but because he was nurtured in the way he was, he swayed towards the Dark Side of the Force.

Just like Tom Riddle, it looks as though Palpatine was just.. born evil.

It would have been the tragedy of sidious the wise

It would sort of be like how there is a multiverse in comics dc and marvel. There will always be certain characters with specific characteristics, but they don't always start or end the same way. Even if most iterations of Palpatine will become a Sith, it doesn't mean they will always have the same home life or training. Maybe he starts as a Jedi youngling but doesn't really fit in completely, like how Dookus' friend was in the novelization. Becoming more politically involved and eventually becoming a Senator of Naboo. His resentment for failing to become a Jedi stirring his hatred to become a powerful Sith.

If a Star Wars What If series is made. This needs to be an episode

For the nature v nurture thing: people all naturally lean to one side a bit more than the other, whether it be due to personality, psychology, upbringing, or a combination of the three. What matters is which side they choose to lean into, emphasis on choose. With this in mind, nurture is def a stronger influence than nature, so it makes sense as to why Palpatine ended up the way he did. His nurturing influenced him into believing his nature was normal, so he chose to embrace his negative qualities.

I'm not sure. I mean, yes, his apparent psychopathy predisposes him to the Dark Side. However, Plagueis' perspective is intensely biased, for all that he's usually fairly rational as Sith Lords go, and he has every reason to tell Palpatine - who was abused from early childhood - that he was destined for the Dark Side. Many psychopaths in real life live perfectly successful and moral lives, channelling their ambition and ruthlessness to socially acceptable ends, and while it might have been difficult, the same is perfectly possible here if Palpatine had been found early. I think he would absolutely have been tempted by the Dark Side, but with the right Master, he could have done well. That Master? Dooku himself. There's a 20 year age gap, and I think that Dooku would have been eminently suited to train Palpatine into the ultimate political Jedi. He'd have been a peer of Qui-Gon, as they're almost exactly the same age, and I think that if anyone should have trained Qui-Gon, it was Yoda. Yeah, Jedi Master Sheev Palpatine, struggling with the Dark Side within? I would read/watch the HELL out of that.

I would love to see a young palpatine upbringing story.

the defect that makes someone born a psychopath usually comes with all the things that make one a good sith. Madness and genius walk along side each other.

The odds Siddious could have been a good jedi are 1 in a Trillion at best. It was his destiny to be the Sith he would become.

all this power, all this wisdom. Yet he still cant stop tazing himself

Hmmmm, maybe a Sith Lord Yoda & Jedi Grandmaster Palpatine? Somewhere in the multiverse.

I think it suits Palpatine way more that he bucks the nurture idea, and was just born to be an entity of evil. Even if he had loving/accepting parents.

Really need a film or series about Darth plagueis, set before the films.

I just looked up "terrible writing" in the dictionary. The first thing that came up was, "Rey Palpatine."

I'd like to see a young Palpatine butting heads with the jedi council entirely reason being what would he do when he learns that there is a collection of sith Knowledge in the jedi temple I'd think he'd try to break into the forbidden section

Vitiate was born evil for example as well.

I've done some training courses where they stated that a person's personality is 70% nature, 30% nurture. I wonder if this is also true of Palpatine, with direction needed from Plagueis to mould him into who he became.

It's always a interesting discussion about how it feels that some people are predisposed regardless of upbringing to turn out a certain way, then there are those that turn out a certain way because of upbringing. Even if they meet at the same point in the future the predisposed person will always be 🤔 deadlier

Palpatine already stated very loudly what he wanted overall, whether as a Jedi or Sith…”powhaaa…uuuuunlimited…POWHAAAA!”

"Did you ever hear....." Senate.

I was thinking they should make a “what if” game storyline from anakins point of view as a child with choices that change the ending (anakins future if he becomes Vader or if he beat obiwan) but personal choices as well like telling obiwan about Padme saving his mother or if he stayed with his mother and many more also OP abilities the chosen one could’ve learned like healing others force lighting and many others

Evil is never born. Always is it made.

Palpatine being a sith-lord was the will of the force. the force cannot change people i think lmao but it can empower those needed for its will.

Sheev Palpatine still lives in my head rent-free for how the internet unanimously died of laughter hearing it.

Sheev Palpatine displays *extreme* symptons of psychopathy; very charming, gifted speaker, extreme intelligence, dedication, lack of empathy, malignant narcissism etc. Regardless of which order would've taken him in, _he would've largely done the same thing_

I believe papaltine exar kun and vitiate all had over 22,000 midchronian count, 20,000 don't seem that powerful by the feats they did, also others babies were able to use the force even as fetus, like vaylin, anakin solo, probably anakin Skywalker.

The conversation of nature versus nurture is extremely interesting to me concerning fictional characters as even the best stories and films cannot possibly give us a definitive timeline on one single person’s development. I have a passion for psychology and my own wife has chosen counseling as a profession so we discuss our favorite characters as being evil or simply misled. It’s always nice to hear different perspectives

He wasn't born that way though, he had leanings he could have learned to over come, but was born into wealth and status which fed hus negative impulses. That said, the Jedi would have been just as bad, be cause as a noble son he believes he's better than everyone, as a Jedi he knows it

Having training and knowing both sides = More Power!!!

I love this. Everyone else speculates with Anakin, Dokou, and even Maul. But with Palpatine, oh no, he’s fucking evil.

Sheev Palpatine is not just a clinical psychopath, he is also a sociopath.

Vegita, what does the scouter say about his (medichlorine) level?

Palpatine being a Jedi would be just as bad as Yoda being a sith. The galaxy would be in big trouble if either of these things happened

It could be possible that the Jedi help Palpatine to learn to control his Natural Urges. It's ALSO possible that Palpatine would fuck up and the Jedi would kill him. Hell maybe Palpatine as a Jedi would make it so he does NOT kill Plagueis, either because it becomes impossible OR because his Personality has been Tempered enough where he choses NOT to due to becoming less Entitled and learning Actions have Consequences. Though Palpatine being Known by the Jedi would have DRASTICALLY changed & complicated Palpatine's plans. After all, he was ONLY successful due to being so HIDDEN!

Very cool. Thanks, SW.

I think that the only sith that is the encarnation of the dark side or at least the most terrifiet one is Nihilus

Its weird but that young palpatine photo in the beginning looks exactly like Loki from the marvel movies…… hmmmmmmmmmm

Back when the prequels came out at that time it was roomer that palpatine held a crystal or sith holocron that boosted his midichlorian count by 1000s X over it was really cool

I'd say Palpatine wasn't specifically a psychopath, but a sociopath.

In a previous video you did. You said Yoda's count was 17k not 18k. Did his count rise?

he would be as psychopathic as ki adi mundi at first and later chose the dark side

Imagine Palpatin being found by the Jedi and one day becomes Grand master. He would still become Supreme Chancellor but with more power.

If Palpatine were to be found as a child and somehow the Jedi convinced Cosinga to let them take him, he wouldn't get far in the Order. The explanation comes directly from Plagueis: "You're heartless, ambitious, arrogant, insidious, and without shame or empathy." He displayed these traits ever since he was a child. It is possible he'd hide his heartlessness, ambition, arogance, insidiousness and lack of shame... but his lack of empathy would be like a shining dead giveaway that something is wrong with him. He was able to hide that as a chancellor/senator because he was a politician and lack of empathy is the sort of thing one can expect from those people. Now the question is what the Jedi would do about it. I don't think that Yoda would let him leave as he'd see him as a ticking bomb. Rather he'd be sent to the agricorps; far away from the other students and the higher knowledge of the order. Would that solve the problem? It wouldn't. Palpatine has a natural affinity to the dark side and wherever he'd end up, the dark side would find him. Either he'd find his own way to it (as he was taught by Plagueis in the book) and get caught and imprisioned or he'd simply run away and then do the same. The possibility of Plagueis finding him afterwards is relatevely small unless he'd make a big scene as he was a natural at hiding his forcesensitivity. So the end results (in my opinion of course) are: 1) Get caught using the dark side multiple times and eventually imprisoned 2) Running away and discovering his dark self but never achieving his true potential 3) Running away and discovering his dark self, and being found by Plagueis or maybe even Venamis depending on the timeframe after majory screwing up and revealing himself. The end result of this is in my opinion simply too hard to imagine. Maybe the Jedi would find him first and imprison/kill him. Who knows

Palpatine being destined to become a Sith Lord from the start. I can see that.

It's not like psychopathy per se would prevent one from becoming a Jedi. See: Ki-Adi-Mundi

It in my opinion heavily depends upon if he finds a love interest like Anakin. In this He could still want to be in the light but at the same time kill all the Jedi that didn’t want to follow his lightside path or start a separate order. But without a love interest I strongly believe that the theoretical events in this video would happen without question. Either way he leaves the order. But it’s the love interest that decides whether he divides the order into two separate lightside orders or brings the second coming. In the events he creates the other lightside order I can see them working together but only while being at each other’s throats the entire time.

"Exorbiant amounts of money"

watching this video i think you are right, his force potential would have been wasted on the Jedi. Especially knowing just how powerful he would become. He became one of thee most powerful Sith in all the timeline of the Sith.

Jorus C’baoth is the droid you’re looking for. He is, more or less, where Palpatine would’ve ended up as a Jedi. Sheev probably gets there on a faster timeline.

His path to the dark side was inevitable…. But my reason comes from KOTOR 2 when that blind lady/sith said, “force user, sith or Jedi have no real free will. Their lives can change as the forces demands it”… if I remember right.

To answer the question at the end of the video, I'm going to say. . it depends. I tend to gravitate to my understanding of the nature vs nurture question which is nature *and* nurture, as in if someone showed signs of being a bit violent or rude as a young human being and the environment they grew up in encouraged this behavior rather then control or get rid of it, then that person will grow up to have a very difficult time in society, and every combination of this idea you can think of. I myself am a prime example of this . . mostly; my nature is to help as many people as possible while still alive or at the very least make em smile, but my nurture and my short temper should've seen me become a very rude person, but instead I just developed the notion that I have to be more than human in order to satisfy everyone else from all the mistreatment I endured while still helping others. Anyways, point is, if Palpatine's father had just shown him some love and gave him the sense that actions have consequences, then maybe Sidious wouldn't've been as curle as we know him; now if he would still turn out a Sith is a topic all on its own, but I think I've made my point, if a bit hard to follow.

I can't unhear my brains misinterpretation of Bazpinga Palpatine

I don't like crossing "universes", but there are so many similarities between Palpatine and JK Rowling's Lord Voldemort that it's like they are based on the same person. This video just strengthens that ideal.

He was born as the dark side itself, a pure embodiment of dark and evil, irredeemable. There’s no way he would’ve stayed as a Jedi after using the order to gain the power he needed. He would’ve turned worse than anakin did.

Excellent!

They would find out that he is a pure psychopath - and dealt with him - because they would know he would certainly fall to the dark side as a result. It would have been visible from the get go as the light side requires empathy to be used and palpatine had literally none thus he would be able to use the light side at all. Not to mention they would notice that his feelings and emotions were unchecked and thus he was prone to the darkside.

Nurture always plays a role, but sometimes you can't overcome their "internal wiring."

He was almost like Darth bane but naturally evil and had it more pampered on the other side of the tracks.

I think corran horn said it best in I, jedi. That most people are middling on the light dark morality scale some are born in the light or dark like Luke or Palpatine.

So basically what you’re saying is young Palps was a trust fund nepo baby?

In the human development field, the consensus is that an individuals personality is determined by both nature and nurture. Although sociopathy may have a genetic component, environmental triggers (primarily abuse or neglect) may also play a role. Perhaps Palpatine had a predisposition for sociopathy that was compounded by his father's treatment of him for being force sensitive. Furthermore, Palpatine's father made excuses for his early wrongdoings, essentially enabling his criminal behavior. If Palpatine had been found by the Jedi and raised in the Jedi temple, perhaps he may have become a different person due to being part of a group that recognized his force sensitivity and helped him learn to control it. In this hypothetical scenario, his anger would likely be less strong due to spending less time with his father. This would lessen the environmental component of sociopathy. The genetic component of sociopathy is believed to be related to genes regulating impulse control and emotion regulation. If Palpatine did become a Jedi, he might need more guidance to develop patience and control anger (not unlike Anakin Skywalker). If he had a Jedi Master who could provide the guidance he needed, he could be a successful Jedi in such an environment. However, someone who is unable to help him develop such skills could be his undoing, pushing him towards the dark side. I can't say for certain what would happen, of course, but this is my theory based on my graduate-level training in Human Development and Family Studies.

5:32 Gee, what gave it away? 🤨

He's too dangerous to be left alive *hums*

That song “BAD TO THE BONE” it was meant for Palpatine. 😭😭😂😂 He was rotten since birth. The he would fell as a youngling and kill all other others. 🤣🤣

A Jedi-trained Palpatine would definitely be more powerful, simply because he'd have more bags of tricks up his sleeve from the start of his training, and wouldn't necessarily forget them later on in life. So maybe he's a little rusty but he could probably still bust out some light side stuff, for the sake of trickery, or something. At least he wouldn't be limited to dark side only.

This makes me think that if this were to happen. If Palpatine was found by the Jedi, it would play out like Harry Potter. Swap Voldemort for Palpatine

Honesty his father must have had some form of force sensitivity if he was able to recognize it in Palpatine without a Jedi.

We need a sideous spin off or trilogy

Dooku really wasn't evil he just lost his way when his apprentice and friend in Qui-Gon died to Darth Maul.

i wonder who's more powerful exar kun or sidious?

Cosinga HATED his oldest son because he was smarter than him, and never cared for him. His siblings and mother all adored Cosinga. Perhaps had Sheev been an orphan, there would have been hope.

So The Secrets Of Your Star Wars Become Revealed.

I’ve heard Plagueis originally wanted Dooku as an apprentice(before meeting Palpatine). If Palpatine was also a Jedi but Dooku was a better and more powerful Jedi, plagueis would never have trained palpatine as his Sith apprentice.

King plagues coming he alive

Was Palpatine/Sidious the strongest sith lord ever or was he just the smartest and most strategic of them all?

Damn

"I can fix him"

I think he would have ended up leaving the Jedi if he had been with them. His father hated him when he was very small, and a kid would feel that and not easily forget it.

There are two entirely different types of beings in galaxy : The Sith and the insignificant worms .

How can Plagueis be the embodiment of the Rule of Two....when he is just one? ..

There is a fan theory that I really want you to do as I cannot find it anywhere what is Sheev Palpatine became a professional speeder bike racer With this theory I would also like to see 1 what if the accident never happened 2 He never had any interest in the force 3 he never had an interest in politics

Would be interesting to see Star Wars take a page out of Star Trek, and have a mirror universe. Plagueis and Palpatine are two secret Jedi looking to overthrow the Sith Empire who's leader is Yoda. Anakin is recruited, and trained by the Sith, but leaves them to join Palpatine.

I’m not sure if this has ever been covered but this has nothing to do with this particular video but if Abeloth was as strong as she is could she have defeated the Yu zong vong?

I think its possible in the SW universe but not irl. Anakin was born to be the chosen one which means that you can be born as something. I think Sheev was 100% born to be a sith lord.

I find some of the best Jedi lack empathy as well. Falling into near true gray Jedi an why I think so many don’t act an have an easier time doing nothing when bad things are done by bad people too good. Time an time again the most successful Jedi have little to no empathy

Palpatine being a Jedi is equally the same as Obi Wan Kenobi.

Very interesting he was so powerful he had to kill plagueis in his sleep

Dooku was the only Jedi Plagueis had respect for. Plagueis definitely cared for Plapatine as he was his best success but in the end his demise. I still wanna know what if Plagueis kidnapped young Anakin and probably killed him.

Darth Bane's rule of 2 essentially passed his spirit down the line and through the ages. The only way to become the Sith master was to take on the spirit of Darth Bane and become more powerful than the previous incarnation.

Seems to me, Plagueis didn't know about psychology. Because if he did, he would know that trusting a psychopath is like poking a wild scorpion and trusting it to not sting you.

So, another way to look at this was Plagueis took Palpatine on as an apprentice because he realized if the Jedi learned of Palpatine the outcome could be far, far worse.

We need a Darth Sideous movie or seriesnwith Tom Hiddleston as a young Sideous.

Can someone be born evil? You've obviously never met my father.