If Brand actually engaged honestly with what Sam was saying his entire ‘weltanschauung’ would pop, that’s why he desperately bats it away whenever the pin gets too close to his ideological balloon.

This is a hilarious take, particularly based on how many people approve of it. Sam was given plenty of time to talk and any time Russell tries to speak, he feels a need to interject before allowing Russell to finish his thought. Unsurprisingly, Sam Harris fans see victimhood where it doesn't exist because, frankly, they aren't even listening to the critique. I'm going to watch this entire video but, as I suspected, it doesn't seem like it's going to produce any thaws in the ice with respect to how we have this conversation. Because none of you are listening to the critiques about contextualizing religious violence and separating it from all the peaceful religious folks.

And, by the way, I've been agnostic for almost two decades. We really do need a non-believer that can speak intelligibly about religion without conflating it with its worst aspects. First, discuss why religion exists. Then look at the text and explore how people and cultures interact with the text. And accept that, at least in the short-term, religion isn't going anywhere. So how do we promote the best expression of religion?

No that’s completely wrong. Sam was anchored by truth and reason, while Brand only had obfuscation. Sam fully acknowledges peaceful religious people, but their existence doesn’t detract from all those that kill and brutalise, and to try and deflect by pointing to the obvious peaceful faction only hinders efforts to end religious violence. Stop helping ISIS.

We need to work with reformers to create a new, peaceful Islam, then bug the mosques and deport from the West anyone preaching a hateful interpretation, as well as ACTUALLY applying the law and cracking down on FGM, Sharia creep, Rape Gangs, Honour Killings, deliberate attempts to outbreed the host population (aided by the Left), Halal creep, govt and school corruption, and 1st cousin marriages leading to tragically handicapped children - and all of the other horrors that Islam brings with it. Leftists like Brand who endlessly pander to Islam and constantly deflect efforts to deal with this stuff only condemn more people to the misery brought by Islam, most of them Muslims.

Like because of Sam. The rest of Russell's videos will get plenty of dislikes.

Dislike this one, like Sam Harris' upload

Thats how tribalists think.

Dislike it because it's Russel's channel and he's more wrong than ever.

How difficult for you.

He most certainly has, I thought that too

He’s having one today!

Sam is a hard ass.

A hard chair is better for posture. Soft chairs are good for wankers like Brand.

I noticed that

Scrolling through the comments I stopped and died laughing here

😂😂😂

I’ve been grappling for an analogy for this conversation and you have nailed it

top notch old boy

perfect analogy hahaha

HAHAHAH PERFECT

Point four is spot on. I mean this guy is literally starting from a conclusion he wants, backing into his premises, and then outright stating that facts must exist to support those premises. Its painful.

Savage!

Hector Persephone Harris comes up with abstract thought experiments to discuss realities that don't or barely exist.

Harris is completely out of his dept. When he discusses Islam, he's desperately performing mental gymnastics trying to avoid contradicting all the crap he spouted when he went though his adolescent new atheist phase.

@Knight So what you are saying is, Sam Harris is a failure and he should just give up?

Hes not passive aggressive at all Sam is an idiot

@@malikialgeriankabyleswag4200 could you explain why? Also, we’re you watching the same video?

@@frakramsey I'm Muslim and I'm well acquainted with my religion.. So I can see the gaps you may not be able to see. Also he hasn't any idea about foreign policy or the outside world, his analysis of the state of the world is totally ahistorical and obviously he's just acting as a limb and extension of US foreign policy. I watched an episode about Trump that I was cringing at the whole way through.. He says Trump has done irreparable damage to US Global standing because he says rude things.. Meanwhile Bush created Wahabism and Obama created ISIS.. Sam has absolutely no clue about anything to do with the State of the World or Global politics.. He things this entire thing is ideological 😂 He is ridiculous.

I like some of his works on subjective experience and its significance.. But when he talks about religion and politics everything out of his mouth is nonsense..

@@malikialgeriankabyleswag4200 how is it nonsense?

I understand why he is jumping in on Sam though,,, it is the same rhetoric that Sam can bang on about for ages that should be nipped in the bud really, for Sam does think well, but is totally confused about control systems, not "seeing" that they are based in boundaries of illusion.

@@steghuman9063 Right on. Thank you for your comment. It is good to know there are Others reading and listening to the same stuff that interests me! But my beef with Russell in this episode is that He, Russ, is the host and should not jump all over his guest. In the end, they do come to detente. Also, I happen to agree that Religion is too narrow and does not need Russell's good hearted pampering!

This is because Sam is incorrect in his myopic analogies and he too focused on unspecific minutia that is completely unreliable to the world we currently live in. Sam argues points like he is arguing some priest in his old debates and he has not evolved his debate skills the way Ruseell has. Russell is brining Sam back on track instead of hyperbolic thought games that Sam keeps perpetuating that may happen in only .00000001% of any human endeavor. Sam's analogies are so myopic and so minuscule then he tries to make them out to be this broad spectrum of belief and they are NOT. Russell is being a good host to keep the conversation on the correct track too.

@@passionfly1 exactly what I was thinking...

(this user posted an actual quote by the way people, not a funny parody of Russell's speaking style like I originally thought)

lol

*crickets chirping*

PERFECT!

Makes sense to me

MY POOR SAAAAM You people are insufferable.

hk78901 I like Russell Brand and Sam Harris. But let's be honest. 70% of the podcast was almost unbearable because of the way Russell behaved. If you invite someone on your podcast, a minimum requirement is to not cut of your guest before he even gets to the point. Sam doesn't speak in short sound bites and he doesn't go for quick laughs. Anyone who has heard him speak before, knows that. He weighs his words very carefully and lays out meticulously thought out, long arguments to make sure his point comes across as accurately as possible so that he doesn't get misrepresented. When you cut him off in the middle of every argument and drown him out with fancy, condescending word dribble, you're a bad listener and an unprofessional host. It was also very clear that Russell had done almost zero research beforehand, which he admitted to.

Indiegaze: _"This felt like watching Bill O'Reilly interviewing someone."_ Ha! Try Judge Jeanine Pirro, someone, incidentally, Brand used to criticize for her hectoring style of interviewing. It would seem that he saw something of himself in her.

Trollop 7 The reason I mentioned Bill O'Reilly, is because Russell mocked and criticized him a lot when he was doing the Trews news. I can't stand Bill O'Reilly.....but Russell used a lot of the same interview tactics that Bill used, in this interview. How is it anything less than disappointing to hear a person use the same tactics as the person he used to make fun of? As I mentioned previously; I like Russell, and I think he has a lot of good thoughts and ideas. But he just really fell short in this podcast episode. I just hope he learns something from it.

Indiegaze, you lost respect for Russel Brand?! Im only surprised it took you this long!

Superman fan spotted!

Exactly. Nothing needs to be added and it explains this whole podcast very well.

Your point is?

@@ashwaqahmed9656 His point is that Russell is clearly too emotional. Anyone who needs to bring up " I have friends that are X" during a conversation about religious beliefs and ideological foundations isn't arguing honestly.

@@michaelmarini4627 reading the Quran is not a strong argument either. In addition to neglecting imperialism, capitalism and globalization shows that his argument can work as justification and tool for them.

@@ashwaqahmed9656 the Quran is the holy text for Islam. Reading it or listening to it as a book on tape is fundamental to understand and debate Islam instead of just going by what other people say.

@@proudatheist2042 and someone later will come and neglects the debate that will be created.

Poor Sam, if only his critics were smart enough to understand him 😢

chrisrwright Thought experiment.... Sam Harris had moral authority over humanity and made dick cheny a starbucks ceo. He then remembered carl sagan's agenda on nuclear proliferation after the cold war and before the nuclear arms race, but then remembered u cannot dictate morality without nukes. Keep the Samson option on the table. Divide , distract, mind fuck, and conquer. Said Harris.

Yeah, his fanboys can’t understand what a piece of shit he is

We'll be talking about Harris long after he's gone.

Give it some decades.

Omg, those were my thoughts exactly. I was wondering whether someone would comment on Brand's incessant use of whataboutism and I'm glad you picked up on it.

Brilliant.

I thought the same thing. I'm glad he's doing these talks though considering who his audience mostly is.

Sam Harris vs. Christopher Bollyn. Double dare a debate.

100% correct

The mark of someone high in trait openness.

@@woundedchildstory3172 Ya true

haha watch Sam Harris's new video on Trump he's saying the exact same thing on trump.. maybe got inspired by this comment

At least he wasn't selling his book every 2 minutes...like the 2nd JP interview. JP thought he was on to promote _his_ book not Russell's.

True lol & The Exact opposite is true for Sam Harris

Troll Hunter lol

Troll Hunter Sam is a regressive if he thinks the US cares about fighting terrorism.ISIS is a creation of the CIA, Saudi Arabia,Israel, Turkey..

Prometheus Rising Are you telling me that Isis doesn't believe what they claim to believe?

Troll Hunter they do they just don't know who's controlling them. Useful idiots.

No mate, you're the moron!

Gollum Sméagol Thanx Gollum

Wow, yes this. You have managed to describe exactly how I am thinking after watching that shit-show.

I agree with Sam here, but I give Russel points for allowing him to talk without rephrasing everything Sam said in a negative way right immediately after. I think they both looked good considering Sam is a neuroscientist/author and Russel is a zany comedian/entertainer.

Drugs are bad, mkaaaaay?

He is an ultra ultracrepidarian!

Makes perfect sense. Don't doubt yourself; I do that too. (Harris is marvelous.)

@@daniel27939 you should always doubt yourself, i'm fairly sure harris would agree

Especially on a subject where it is essential to have studied the world's major religious texts.

It was bad. It made him look insincere.

Except his thought experiments are dogshite and could only possibly appeal to idiots or semi-intelligent people who think they're smarter than they are...

Hitting your thumb with a hammer is more valuable than listening to Brand

Agree Nadelia. Russell, pay your guest the respect of listening, especially a mighty intellect like Sam Harris! I cannot play more than 30 minutes of this before I tire of your rambling and interjecting.

omg, I was just going to come on here and type this exact sentiment. I love Russell, but this was one of the first podcasts that his interview style really hindered the conversational tone in an overall negative way.

Disagree. His involvement and ‘interruptions’ added to the show. All I saw was Brand getting Harris to work harder to justify his genocidal tendencies.

What genocidal tendencies ?

Gene Hendrix I think Sam is use to That, he is so detached from his own arguments. Until he is really challenged lol

This is basically what happens to Sam in every interview. His honesty riles people's emotions and they try to belittle him in self defense. He's used to dealing with cretins.

Typical left wing authoritarian tactic to patronise their opponent

AC MC Sam Harris is left wing as well... lol

Josh Clyde he is not an authoritarian though . that is the crucial element to acknowledge

Indeed and as i know from personal experience a couple of lines gives you the ability to talk for half an hour without actually saying anything which is basically Russell's whole career in a nutshell

“The societal pre-requisites and undulating overcurrents of the violence of the true individuals and narratives and global political circumstances, I want to follow my own spiritual optimistic centrally positive view upon the holistic pathways of doctrines and the.......” Brand is on coke.

Yeah study American history. 220 years of war.

Or maybe its not a belief but reality?

If I were Sam Harris, I would have stopped and glared at Brand every time I was interrupted. When Brand quieted, I would wait a few more seconds before continuing. If Brand interrupted again a moment or two later, I'd stop again. Eventually I might just stand up and leave after one of the interruptions. I think the reasons why would be both obvious, and justified.

That’s some serious meditation and mindfulness Sam is practised in.

Anthony Marabito, Jordan Peterson gave even Sam some stiff competition in the Cathy Newman interv--inquisition.

Yeh patiently deceive you to push an agenda. He is a Zionist.

Actually I would do that if I were Brand; not sure if we watch same interview, 70% of this is linear logic masturbation of Sammy boy trying to repeat some of his same and very old shallow and narrow "insights";

Well, to be fair (as if it isn't obvious) degree is in drama.

Erik Henze: _"I don't think he's used to being nailed down to a point without trying to slip out from under it."_ Agreed. He should take his Christ Complex a lot more seriously.

Exactly. He likes to play enlightened intellectual until his lack of real knowledge is called out, then he morphs into the backpedaling eccentric comedian.

SweatyTurtle You nailed it. I think this tells us that he's not willing to listen or learn during this encounter. Way too much ego.

no, not really, its actually opposite in this case; did you really listen and understood this interview or you are as narrow and as shallow as Sammy boy (self claimed wannabe intellectual with backpack filled with his old linear logic packages which are sold only to individuals like you and similar, really ignorant, plebs).

agreed

I.e. Justin Trudeau

I love Russell. I really do. I love listening to him and I take what he says seriously. Having said that, if you want to say that everything about morality is totally relative, you'll always run the risk and horrifying danger of coming into contact with people who do not think this way. Those people tend to be extremely dangerous maniacs

I thought that, but now I find myself thinking he merely synthesizes trying to be a good person, at times he seems interested in truth but generally he sees the world through a prism of ridiculous narratives and that he doesn't correct these either shows dishonesty, hypocrisy or stupidity... somehow I don't think it is the latter so it must be the former and consequently the secondary too.

The Marixts all thought they were doing the right thing. He isn't a logical thinker & thinks a bit highly of his morals. He even said to Joe Rogan that communism was never done right...he thinks HE would've done better. The same when Muslims say: It's not real Islam, in Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. People who think they know everything and would succeed with their crazy ideology, are very dangerous.

Syl JoLy He is truly gifted!

Kevin Pineda The reason i have such passion for criticizing the bad ideas of the 911 doctrine, is because i see the baby in the bath water that everyone is affraid of loosing. And i see it doesn't require any decisive bs to be saved. You dont have to lie to yourself to believe the lies in the 911 doctrine.

I thought this too, very zen like, his voice hardly changes in tone.

Syl JoLy No, meditation is an empty mind, not of thought compelled to speak.

Sam Harris is not a white supremacist. He hates white people just as much as he hates muslims. For him it's not a racial issue, but rather, he hates all forms of stupidity and has not patience for bad ideas.

Bart Ehrman Have you ever read the Quran in ancient hebrew or even Greek? Sam Of course not! Not that i think it!s anything to defend in the Quran, but how many people do you know who have?I think you!d find actual Islamic scholars thinking the same of Sam in his understanding. But Sam doesn't do historic political context. Fancy taking something out of context! Sam should hate that.

ukwoodcarver My God how can he defend and quote a book he has never read....

@@cajoz Sam Harris has read the Quran, at minimum, in its entirety, in English, and lists scores of quotations in his book The End of Faith that speak to doctrinal motivations or condonations of some terrible acts and, in its extreme invocations, blatantly, racist, fascistic, apocalyptic tribalistic beliefs. If splitting hairs over translations are required to defend the merits of any religious beliefs and their application then the apologist is defending an utterly untenable position. If God (Abrahamic monotheism; polytheism deserves it's own thread/analysis) has gifted us a text by which to think and live, linguistics/semantics would not be required to defend its holiness or be the aegis against its refutation, particularly so if he dictated it verbatim to an (according to Muslim scholars) illiterate prophet, pbuh. To this extent it is quite paradoxical/self-contadictory that many Muslim scholars invoke this as evidence of the book's divinity. In fact, it does the opposite. Further, but not requisite for the argument, it is both odd and damning that its positive encouragements would survive translation but not the negative ones. It is clear, however, that most Muslims are very good people, and in the Quran there is likely more than enough goodness and inspiration for living a good life, being good neighbours, good wives, good husbands and good children (obviously cuteness, brattiness, and asking "Are we there yet?" are ubiquitous amongst kids) in it, too. Yet, the Golden Rule dates to ancient Egypt and India, Sri Lanka, and ancient Greece, and other fundamental, innate, synergetic human behaviours far predate the Quran. People have not required dogmatic books to develop positive, beneficial relationships with these characteristics, and if we did need such books to do so we would be in troubled (certainly far more trouble than we are in now, if one were inclined to suggest we are). Would love to hear what you think about this. If there are things you disagree with please don't take offence, I am very open to changing my outlook and for learning from those whom I disagree with. Slàinte math!inteSlah

...to crystallize my point about the Golden Rule, etc., Muslims do not require the Quran or be amazing people. They are simply amazing people who have religious beliefs, texts, that reinforce their natural inclinations to being the good people they were born to be, for the most part, with the exclusion of for example the long list of evil condonations found therein, and bad eggs who are found everywhere, again with no connection to religion whatsoever.

​@@chrysology Your outlook and understanding of religion and especially Islam appears to be one dimensional as with most people including muslims themselves. You argue that a book gifted by God as a guide to life should be simplistic and not require 'splitting hairs'. Yet you do not consider that the book is believed to be a guide for mankind in general. Not for people living 1400 years ago, but people living in all ages. That means the text is limited to the capacity of society at a given time and hence its interpretation and understanding will evolve as the societies evolve. How complex must a text be if it has instructions on about every aspect of a human life summed up in 604 pages? This is where the arabic language is suitable because of its complexity and how a single word can easily have completely different meanings depending on the context it is used in. And also why supporting texts a i.e. the hadith are necessary to understand many parts of the book but even those are limited to the listeners and their understanding of what was being said in the time they were living in. The Quran (and all the holy books in their original text) are multilayered. Depending on who you are and what you are looking for, 'splitting hairs' or 'mental gymnastics' as ppl like to put it, will most certainly will be necessary in many cases. Hence why the Prophet PBUH told the people to travel to China (the land of knowledge) in order to understand ('the deeper layers') Quran. It's one thing knowing where babies come from, but completely another explaining how its formed in the womb. Try explaining that to people thousands of years ago with their limited knowledge. You can't. Let me just put it this way, throughout history of science we have proposed many theories that were proven to be false later on. Did that mean science was invalid and unreliable for attaining objective knowledge? or that the scientists were the ones mistaken and wrongly interpreted data? Do we have scientists that refute climate change and vaccines and use the scientific method to prove their point? Is it fair to use these scientists as the poster boys for science? The problem with muslims and believers is that they're born into the religion and they can't apply critical thinking. They blindly follow all the interpretations of a scholar/priest/imam. Because practically speaking that's what religion essentially is. It's the interpretation of a book believed to be sent by God. And you certainly don't need a book to practice good character at the very basic level because society teaches it to you to be the norm but the golden rule definitely wouldn't be the norm without the influence of religion. “We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth” [41:53]

Sam Harris yes in simpler language, Sam Harris was destroyed in this interview for the dog shit he is

Ah, "lazy thinking", Kelly. You're clearly adding great insight with simple language (I allude it's the same "lazy thinking" that enables one to even listen to g-eazy and subscribe to Keeping up with the kardashians, huh?). Does your vocabulary lack the verbosity and eloquence of a true wordsmith because you have to think "deeply" to ingest any form of literary homiletics from thought leaders with illustrious cognitive flexibility? Sad actually. You can stand for Harris' work and leave the ad hominem engagement, but due to you setting that rule with your comment, I'd be more than happy to return the rule. All the best with your simple language and lazy thinking, darling. ;)

Or maybe you're just simple-minded?

@@watdinkjydoenjy I think you have missed the point. Russel often uses over-the-top and unnecessary language to either explain a simple point or to sound intelligent without actually making a coherent point (much like yourself). If you can make your point in the most succinct way possible, it shows you truly understand the point.

@@watdinkjydoenjy The hilarious part is that it took you a paragraph to say “actually I think simple language is more reflective of lazy thinking than complex language is.” (And I’m giving you more credit than you’re due because you never actually delivered much of a point anywhere). You said the same thing she said but flipped on it’s head and with no more insight than her, and it took you an entire paragraph. And you used words that didn’t quite fit their context, presumably for the simple fact that they’re big and make you appear verbose. Too funny 😂

There's more to being an intellectual than swallowing a dictionary and waving your arms around mysteriously.

Let not put Mr Brand in the category of an intellectual. He is no brighter than I. He simply has a large vocabulary and principles/ideology that he sticks to. And yes that is post modernism

H FIVE I had him down as an improv-comedian up until recently. I get the impression that he's transitioning to full-blown pseud.

Spot on. It would be much better to listen to if Russ didn't just try to semantic acrobatics without even engaging properly his talking partner. Russ might get away with this often, but sometimes, the art is not using the most complex language to express one's ideas - but expressing the in a simple manner.. In my Humble opinion.

18:07 But you can get bully/groupthink on any playground ('what was in the kids textbooks?')... So you could see it as the fanatics felt the school threaten their power structures, in the same way the death squads felt the churches (with "liberation theology") threaten them in Latin America... The conservatives will always oppose change to their order because they have the power, and nobody is aloud to "rock their boat" 58:28 ironically the maximum-prison thought experiment is a great. Since we have supported "open-air prisons" around the world (Gaza,..etc.) and in that context the burka would make sense to you too (even in prisons the men and women are separated). 1:40:29 Harris is correct that "dogma is blind" on a individual level, but the dogma is also manufactured and adapted for political ends (conquer and divide); if it wasn't "the sacred zygote" it would have been something else manufactured (like southern strategy, guns...etc.) so you are just playing "wack a mole" with dogmas instead of changing the power structure 1:22:33 can someone explain how a computer can suffer without pain receptors? 1:44:30 iPhones are not made from "mere capitalism", all/most of the research is done in universities (state subsidized) and even the cities with the factories and housing in China, where the iPhones are assembled, are constructed by the Chinese government (state subsidized again). 1:51:00 When we toppled Saddam (after Hans Blix told us they didn't have WMDs), toppled Qaddafi after he cooperated with the west and now "knocking on" Iran's door after Obama signed a treaty, no wonder North Korea wants to deter external assault (like the Israeli "Samson option"). But to Harris the Iraq war wasn't terrorism, so why are they scared??? Will they feel "euphoria" if they blow?

So cheap right lol

Honestly, I'd get hard if Russell said that to me.

True. I may disagree with Sam on some issues, but I'll always admire him for his incredible patience and articulation.

Russell is a leftist idiot! His "hi there 5 million wonders" won't do the trick for long with such myopic way of thinking! He is the type of person who is the least tolerant. I just can't comprehend how could someone be so deluded!!

"...or was it your brother, Ben?"

@@nicolasbascunan4013 😆😆😆

@@proudatheist2042 I don't remember the joke :(

3 ft 😂😂😂😂👏👏

That's what we are dealing with these days. The liberal left has it's own religion and it is 100% right, it does not need to look any further, it has seen the light.

Ya i found that a little weird

3 ft I've read both. The bible is way more violent. God asked a man to murder his own son

Will Delaneyjr Nope. The old testament is violent and I won't try to defend it, but the new testament, the one that modern Christians follow is largely a book of forgiveness and doesn't even compare to the violence within the Quran. If you are talking about the binding of Isaac, where God asked Abraham to kill his son, God stops Abraham... So I don't think you actually read them!

I know we all figured this out in when we watched it. Why on earth did you subject yourself to a second viewing. And you’re right the “no self” meditation he practices is intense. I think it’s hard to really “get” unless you’ve had a massive amount of drug induced mind-altering experiences like Sam has. In fact that’s what led him to meditation.

Sam had that “no ego, no self” mentality to allow him to have this two-hour conversation. How can his other guests take it?!!! Do all his other guests just have the same mindset that enables a smooth, rational discussion?

Yes, Russel just want to cover up and shout over Sam ,he seems very much confused and blabbers ..Disgusting to see him interrupt the flow.

What I've noticed about scholars and people in general who have done extensive research on particular subjects, is that when they speak with people who clearly don't have as much knowledge as they do are extremely matter of fact. I don't think it's patience per se, just that they can expand on topics and respond to statements that are shallow/superficial. They come across as patient, but that's the effect of knowing what you're talking about.

@@lrockbr absolutely you are right

He invited Sam on so that Sam could interview him.

18:07 But you can get bully/groupthink on any playground ('what was in the kids textbooks?')... So you could see it as the fanatics felt the school threaten their power structures, in the same way the death squads felt the churches (with "liberation theology") threaten them in Latin America... The conservatives will always oppose change to their order because they have the power, and nobody is aloud to "rock their boat" 58:28 ironically the maximum-prison thought experiment is a great. Since we have supported "open-air prisons" around the world (Gaza,..etc.) and in that context the burka would make sense to you too (even in prisons the men and women are separated). 1:40:29 Harris is correct that "dogma is blind" on a individual level, but the dogma is also manufactured and adapted for political ends (conquer and divide); if it wasn't "the sacred zygote" it would have been something else manufactured (like southern strategy, guns...etc.) so you are just playing "wack a mole" with dogmas instead of changing the power structure 1:22:33 can someone explain how a computer can suffer without pain receptors? 1:44:30 iPhones are not made from "mere capitalism", all/most of the research is done in universities (state subsidized) and even the cities with the factories and housing in China, where the iPhones are assembled, are constructed by the Chinese government (state subsidized again). 1:51:00 When we toppled Saddam (after Hans Blix told us they didn't have WMDs), toppled Qaddafi after he cooperated with the west and now "knocking on" Iran's door after Obama signed a treaty, no wonder North Korea wants to deter external assault (like the Israeli "Samson option"). But to Harris the Iraq war wasn't terrorism, so why are they scared??? Will they feel "euphoria" if they blow?

He's actually not very articulate. He uses a lot of words incorrectly. For example, he said "what does that infer" when referring to a trend in consumerism when he meant "what does that imply". There are several such examples when he spews out his word salad in a blur of giddiness. The vocabulary he uses is not yet his.

LankyAlpaca That is simply false. Even when debating religious ideologues he gives them the time of day to make their point and refutes them with dignity and logic.

you must be fun at parties

Which one is Sam Harris?

The one who is Intellectually on a different level, whose points are clear and sound, whilst Russell Brand is the one making constant interruptions that make for a very frustrating podcast to listen to.

Sam Harris is the fascist that keeps trying to say we should force the wests superficial culture on the rest of the planet without actually saying it, he’s the guy that hates suicide bombers but accepts that every now and again government do need to bomb hospitals with women and children in.

joe bradley Never heard him imply anything of the sort, your accusations are baseless.

Are you referring to the Red Cross hospital in Afghanistan that ISAF accidentally bombed? That was not a purposeful act, no government accepted it was a needed or required attack. I doubt the pilots ever flew again, or if they did, their careers will certainly be impacted in a significant way.

it was 2 years ago - he was a parody of himself in those days, i have more time for him now.

This level of cultural and moral relativism is infuriating. I don't get it....Why is it so hard to say: "they way the Taliban treats women is wrong PERIOD."?? It's not that fucking difficult.

Neither has Sam read the Qur'an but he is the first to present his unqualified opinion on Islam.

"Of course you can have an opinion about Islam without having read the Qur'an. You don't have to read Mein Kampf to have an opinion about Nazism." - Richard Dawkins

Could he not have said no, and been honest ?

No, you just made that up (just like Muhammad made up the stories in the Koran). Sam Harris has stated on record that he has read it many times, as would become obvious if you read his first book, 'The End of Faith'. I have also read the Koran from cover to cover so know he is telling the truth about Islam.

Neither has Sam, he has cherry picked passages without understanding the context to prove a point.

Ron Murphy that was the low point of the cast for sure, but the last half wasn't too bad as they moved on.

Cultural Relativism is the hill on which many a well meaning liberal has died on.

Russell is just a useless twat in this conversation, spouting bullshit words to sound intelligent and "spiritual" without actually contributing to any of the points. Russell- " why is your focus on this" Sam- " it isn't it's all important" Russel - "we're in the tumble dryer of love Sam" FUCK ME shut the fuck up 🙄🙄🙄

Ha 😂 very good point 👉

Because you maybe an atheistic/agnostic who sympathises with Sam

lol maybe Sam shouldn’t talk to people like they are children.

@@Joshshuababa hhow did you possibly ascertain that from this video

@@frakramsey you must have the brain of a child if you don’t hear it.

@@Joshshuababa of course I do yes. Well done.

Agreed. That's the point of any conversation really. But whenever there is a debate, you have to play by the rules of engagement. If you don't, there's no point in debating. I will never converse, debate, argue with anyone who will not let me speak. If they want that same respect in return. You HAVE to be able to listen to what the other person is saying and they have to listen to you.

That is very true.

He’s a recovering addict and has used spirituality to a large degree to help with that process. So he feels very threatened and scared by Sam’s rational and compelling argument against the worlds biggest religion. Although you could argue that Islam was more an authoritarian political movement than a religion 🤔

Yes, things did devolve after a point. But, in Russell's defence this guy seems to repeatedly respond to Russell by stating Russell's comment is irrational, a bad version, "it's not just a matter of...," "you're doing too narrow of a reading...," etc. He portrays Russells comments as trite or approaching stupid. By the time we are one third into the video he is practically attacking Russell. That would make me act out, too., a lot. Also, Sam contradicts himself. A lot. First he says there isn't crazy killers, then he lists all these kinds of crazy, he just doesn't call it crazy until much into his delineation. This is important because it shows He could have agreed with Russell. He just didn't want to for some reason. He puts down Russell over and over. How Russell's ideas are not the most important interpretation, etc.... What I see is two people who approach life from very opposing perspectives. Russell is grounded in a Humanities approach. Sam is oriented from a Science/Math approach. Or you could call it left brain versus right brain. But I see Sam as being just as rude as some of you are saying Russell is. He is incapable of entertaining people may have a different approach to life just as valid as his. Not once does Russell tell him he is wrong. Whereas Sam does a few times. He is so sure his view is the right one. Ugh! I can't tolerate people like that. Check out Russell's interviews with Jordan Peterson. Over and over comments rave at how respectful, genuine, honest their talk is. I would so not be happy to be Sam's daughter. I am a poet with degrees in Sociocultural Anthropology and English. He'd hound me how worthless they are. How they don't draw on data in thought experiments. Blah.

stgodd that’s so fucking funny

Hahahahah

Lol

Spot on

he's like Joey from Friends when he writes his résumé using a thesaurus. Probably signs his cheques "Russle Proprietary Name"

why in this case? Where lies and (perhaps concious) narrow mindedness is being spread on such a public platform, it's (at least in my opinion) a responsable act from Russell to stop there and clarify, don't you think?

John Ny dryer than usual

Sam Harris is the most calculated speaker on earth, he chooses his word very carefully and I find all his points are undeniable if you objectively and honestly absorb them.

And apparently masochist as well to have interview with bubbling idiot

It's not the first time. Omer Aziz was almost hostile when speaking with Sam. The only people who fiercely object to Sam are those that infer their own interpretations from Sam's statements coloured by as much pessimism and negativity as they can conjure. Why is it that people like Omer Aziz arrive at the conclusion that Sam defends the bombing of innocents? Because he's talking past Sam and putting emotions ahead of reasoning. That is why Sam is going to win every discussion or debate where he isn't met with clear, hard reason. Of course, if the listeners and viewers don't care about reason they'll give in to superficial traits, tribalism, cult worship etc.

Aeonized I think that's the only discussion where I've heard Sam emotional.

Chris Me - So you're the one 😉

Sam Harris has that effect on one's perception of those in the same room with him.

Chris Me You live and you learn my friend.

Chris Me haha me too, i was convinced. But it all makes sense now.

He's the worlds oldest 16 year old. Even though he's 40+ years old! & in the wise words of Dr Evil "There's nothing more pathetic. Then an ageing Hipster"

Agreed

It’s been a year, have you learned or experienced anything more about Islam? Most Muslim Women are not considered equals and in most places have few rights. Do you know what Sharia law is? Do you know what FGM is? Honor killings? Child brides? Throwing gays off buildings? These are Muslim religious practices. Not all Muslims do this but we need to call it out just like we called out spousal abuse in the 70s and 80s in the US. It’s harmful, violent behavior and not everyone does it but Islam promotes and supports this type of cruelty and unethical behavior. It’s not lies, it’s Sharia law.

And generally irrelevant relativist nonsense, at that.

AdiEdits I completely disagree. Sam just refuses to give him an inch philosophically so he does the same spiritually. "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.' A purely scientific world view isn't all it's cracked up to be; and JUST MAYBE, some truths must be experienced to be understood.

Depends what you mean by a purely "scientific world" because by definition, a scientific idea is an idea backed by logic, reason, and empirical evidence. If empirical evidence is not what it is cracked up to be than what is superior to that? As for truths being experienced to be understood - maybe. I have no idea about the truth just as the next guy. I just don't believe that experience > science/philosophy.

He keeps moving the goal posts, and really suffered from moral equivalence fallacy in this interview. It was extremely frustrating.

AdiEdits By Purely Scientific World View I am talking about what is often referred to as "Scientism" by philosophers. Of which I believe the New Atheists, like Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens RIP, Richard Carrier, and especially Harris to be dogmatic proponents. "Scientism is a matter of putting too high a value on natural science in comparison with other branches of learning or culture." -Tom Serell Basically, a belief in the universal applicability of the scientific method and approach, also that empirical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or the most valuable part of human learning-to the exclusion of other viewpoints. One consequence of this world view is the Appeal to Scientific Authority which I assume we can both agree can be a regressive force in society. For example, the idea of man traveling by flying seemed impossible to most everyone 200 years ago, the most revered scientists of the day scoffed at the Wright brothers. Today flying on an Air Bus is taken for granted. I worry we will lose the desire to explore and challenge popular thought as a people. We are more divided, more stupid as studies show, and less capable of survival without our tech than any generation is history as well. We have become a society of children. Finally, when Russell ask him if he feels that the "relegation of spiritual values" could be partly responsible for our current set of societal problems, I thought that was a very fair question, that should be debated. "Observe for yourselves the decay of the sense of sin, the growth of innocence and irresponsibility, the strange modifications of the reproductive instinct with a tendency to become bi-sexual or epicene, the childlike confidence in progress combined with nightmare fear of catastrophe, against which we are yet half unwilling to take precautions." -Crowley "The civilized man has built a coach, but has lost the use of his feet. He is supported on crutches, but lacks so much support of the muscle. He has got a fine Geneva watch, but he has lost the skill to tell the hour by the sun. A Greenwich nautical almanac he has, and so being sure of the information when he wants it, the man in the street does not know a star in the sky. The solstice he does not observe; the equinox he knows as little; and the whole bright calendar of the year is without a dial in his mind. His notebooks impair his memory; his libraries overload his wit. - Self-Reliance, Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1841 ps I would say that Experience + Meditation = Philosophy and that Curiosity + Inquiry = Science. I hope you actually read this, you asked me to articulate an idea that can be a bitch to unpack as Sam would say.

Sam: People are not crazy they just sometime hold bad beliefs Sam: There are not so much evil people causing needless suffering as much as misaligned incentive structures. Russel: Terrorism is crazy people, and the system is maintained by evil people. Russel: Sam, would you say you are a pessimist about humans?

Ah, the "U Mad Bro?" method of dialectic. Favored by ten year olds on xbox live.

Id like to hear sam Harris do a moral analysis of Christopher Bollyn's research. Sam Harris would make that guy regret his observations.

"Jump into the tumble dryer of truth.. I bet it hurts your ears." - Christopher Bollyn. "Who am i to judge the doctrine of 911? My judgment stops at the burka". - soulsnatcher sam Harris

Tom Armstrong there are no objective facts

@@GoddessHabits Yes there are. I take it you're an avid postmodernist then, with that outlook? What a preposterous position.

Tom Armstrong Tom Armstrong - “Vague insult”

Tom Armstrong To be clear. I agree Sam is the sane one in this conversation, but he doesn’t just give facts, and feelings aren’t invaluable. It’s what we feel about the relevant facts that forms our worldview.

Feelings + dogma

I’m wondering if you could point me to some video that shows how he’s changed? Russell has a whole lot of content on his channel and I’m not sure where to find it

there was so much more letting your guest speak and retaining meaningless word salad to this conversation as well.

Guest Informant Russell is far too much of a narcissist to let someone have the majority of the mic for 2 hours, his impulse to retaliatory regurgitate rambunctious word salad is too overpowering ha.

haha good point.

Thank you, couldn't finish this because Russel never listens. He wants to throw around 15 synonyms and obscure words to sound smart and he falls flat on his face because of it...

Usually, I would rebuke these comments and defend Russel. But somehow this discussion acted as an exposure of Russel's weaknesses and dishonesty. I could listen to Russel spew synonyms all day and be entertained, but this exchange revealed and highlighted how he lacks academic bolstering for much of his worldview, and borders on woowoo at times.

i would bet sam prefers being on russel's show for the different intellectual level of the conversation that can be had

18:07 But you can get bully/groupthink on any playground ('what was in the kids textbooks?')... So you could see it as the fanatics felt the school threaten their power structures, in the same way the death squads felt the churches (with "liberation theology") threaten them in Latin America... The conservatives will always oppose change to their order because they have the power, and nobody is aloud to "rock their boat" 58:28 ironically the maximum-prison thought experiment is a great. Since we have supported "open-air prisons" around the world (Gaza,..etc.) and in that context the burka would make sense to you too (even in prisons the men and women are separated). 1:40:29 Harris is correct that "dogma is blind" on a individual level, but the dogma is also manufactured and adapted for political ends (conquer and divide); if it wasn't "the sacred zygote" it would have been something else manufactured (like southern strategy, guns...etc.) so you are just playing "wack a mole" with dogmas instead of changing the power structure 1:22:33 can someone explain how a computer can suffer without pain receptors? 1:44:30 iPhones are not made from "mere capitalism", all/most of the research is done in universities (state subsidized) and even the cities with the factories and housing in China, where the iPhones are assembled, are constructed by the Chinese government (state subsidized again). 1:51:00 When we toppled Saddam (after Hans Blix told us they didn't have WMDs), toppled Qaddafi after he cooperated with the west and now "knocking on" Iran's door after Obama signed a treaty, no wonder North Korea wants to deter external assault (like the Israeli "Samson option"). But to Harris the Iraq war wasn't terrorism, so why are they scared??? Will they feel "euphoria" if they blow?

Russels superficial stances, all vanity and virtue signalling with no real depth. I too found it odd that instead of debating further or acknowleding points well made he just immediately changed subjects, I think this might be a sign of cognitive dissonance. Its kind of a more polite way of putting your fingers in your ears and going "NA NA I CANT HEAR YOU, DIDNT HEAR A WORD". Just like he wont read the Quran because he knows what it will contain, and he just doesnt want to know.

LankyAlpaca Ok. Have they? I wouldnt know, im not a follower.

No, otherwise, he would conclude that god exists every two minutes.

Exactly.

He's just a lowly coward dratsaB who can do nothing, who is dying from inside with pain because other people don't follow his malicious degenerate beliefs.

18:07 But you can get bully/groupthink on any playground ('what was in the kids textbooks?')... So you could see it as the fanatics felt the school threaten their power structures, in the same way the death squads felt the churches (with "liberation theology") threaten them in Latin America... The conservatives will always oppose change to their order because they have the power, and nobody is aloud to "rock their boat" 58:28 ironically the maximum-prison thought experiment is a great. Since we have supported "open-air prisons" around the world (Gaza,..etc.) and in that context the burka would make sense to you too (even in prisons the men and women are separated). 1:40:29 Harris is correct that "dogma is blind" on a individual level, but the dogma is also manufactured and adapted for political ends (conquer and divide); if it wasn't "the sacred zygote" it would have been something else manufactured (like southern strategy, guns...etc.) so you are just playing "wack a mole" with dogmas instead of changing the power structure 1:22:33 can someone explain how a computer can suffer without pain receptors? 1:44:30 iPhones are not made from "mere capitalism", all/most of the research is done in universities (state subsidized) and even the cities with the factories and housing in China, where the iPhones are assembled, are constructed by the Chinese government (state subsidized again). 1:51:00 When we toppled Saddam (after Hans Blix told us they didn't have WMDs), toppled Qaddafi after he cooperated with the west and now "knocking on" Iran's door after Obama signed a treaty, no wonder North Korea wants to deter external assault (like the Israeli "Samson option"). But to Harris the Iraq war wasn't terrorism, so why are they scared??? Will they feel "euphoria" if they blow?

I don't know what the wow is. And the pretty is unnecessary

I didn’t realize how ignorant Russell was until I listened to this one...

distatic I would say there are conscious states of suffering that do not involve pain receptors. Emotional or psychological pain. Stress, anxiety. Sam raises the possibility of creating a conscious mind that could manifest, be substrate independent and us being completely unaware that we have created it. It could potentially suffer in ways we are unable to imagine.

Are you for real.... The breaking of bread in Catholic religion is an example of the literalism that has infected religious practice. Sam you are not winning the argument by saying if Jesus had not said to do this we would not be doing it!!! We dont choose to do all that man ever told us to do, some rituals stay around because they take hold, they touch our hearts! saying cheers doesn't necessarily bring cheers anymore than wishing a happy birthday brings happiness.... Unless it does!!! Rituals are still around after time because they make our hearts sing... Evil/insane man whose hearts never sing are fueled by there own desire to live in fear and may try to posses and corrupt our rituals..... Sam are you doing just that?

GaryG , brand is the worst interviewer. He doesn't listen carefully either.

I know right... I tried to listen but it drove me crazy.. Brand seems to be stuck on "transmit". He's a fan of the Dalai Lama, least he purports that. But apparently didn't take His Holiness's advice regarding listening more than speaking.

GaryG no garry

Regulus Mine no regulus

Austin Brown yes austin

Childe13 Weston He can’t let him talk, the truth hurts.

@Shelly seymore Wow, you really got Sam there.

@仮面忍者 If that's "lopsided" you're a bit of a moron.

Sam did most of the interrupting. The guy doesn't like being challenged.

Peruvian Tree Productions Sam got good practice from when Cenk interviewed him.

Why do you think people do that? It's not uncommon on the left. Is it virtue signalling or something deeper?

18:07 But you can get bully/groupthink on any playground ('what was in the kids textbooks?')... So you could see it as the fanatics felt the school threaten their power structures, in the same way the death squads felt the churches (with "liberation theology") threaten them in Latin America... The conservatives will always oppose change to their order because they have the power, and nobody is aloud to "rock their boat" 58:28 ironically the maximum-prison thought experiment is a great. Since we have supported "open-air prisons" around the world (Gaza,..etc.) and in that context the burka would make sense to you too (even in prisons the men and women are separated). 1:40:29 Harris is correct that "dogma is blind" on a individual level, but the dogma is also manufactured and adapted for political ends (conquer and divide); if it wasn't "the sacred zygote" it would have been something else manufactured (like southern strategy, guns...etc.) so you are just playing "wack a mole" with dogmas instead of changing the power structure 1:22:33 can someone explain how a computer can suffer without pain receptors? 1:44:30 iPhones are not made from "mere capitalism", all/most of the research is done in universities (state subsidized) and even the cities with the factories and housing in China, where the iPhones are assembled, are constructed by the Chinese government (state subsidized again). 1:51:00 When we toppled Saddam (after Hans Blix told us they didn't have WMDs), toppled Qaddafi after he cooperated with the west and now "knocking on" Iran's door after Obama signed a treaty, no wonder North Korea wants to deter external assault (like the Israeli "Samson option"). But to Harris the Iraq war wasn't terrorism, so why are they scared??? Will they feel "euphoria" if they blow?

Better yet, simply listen to him talk with someone who isn't enamoured by their own giddy blur of a word salad and rather have a genuine interest at getting to the crux of ideas.

That's how conservative talk radio show hosts and Fox News wins arguments. Interruptions.

Sean Michaels That’s true, but what has that to do with Brand?

+Robert You forgot "gross".

Where exactly did he redeem himself? Is there something i missed?

Russell is a leftist idiot! His "hi there 5 million wonders" won't do the trick for long with such myopic way of thinking! He is the type of person who is the least tolerant. I just can't comprehend how could someone be so deluded!!

Julian Jacobs /Willy Wonka

Julian Jacobs "woo-woo" is more fun to say pretending to be an old stream engine

I totally agree and have mentioned this before

Which is the biggest threat to freedom, islam or the 911 commission report? One of these doctrines justified the patriot act, nsa, tsa, the repeal of habeas corpus, 8 flase wars aka the balkanization of the middle east, 20 trillion of debt, drones, torture, gbay, ect.... Can u guess which doctrine full of lies justified these things? Hint, its not the doctrine of islam. - deepak chopra

Thomas Fraser Then perhaps your pea-brained thought-leader shouldn't have hosted him. I imagine the click allure had nothing to do with it.

Thomas Fraser: _"I'm really not interested in engaging ad hominem attacks"_ Then you shouldn't have engaged in one in the first instance. I can't help but feel that you're gravely letting down your moral and intellectual kin by stooping to our levels of debasement before giving us so much as a chance to get stuck in. I have my doubts that you even thought to run your initial snide remark past your local spiritual ethics committee prior to loosing its bitter toxicity onto an unsuspecting world of near-intolerable suffering - a world that's already frothing over the rim with precisely this kind of bile. Just what were you thinking? This realm is screaming out for nothing more than compassion, and you just spat in its eye. You've set the cause back decades, and I just can't believe what I'm seeing now. You don't deserve to breathe the same air as the Guru.

Thomas Fraser Yes, well I'm sure Harris would have come over more convincingly in an archly-angled fedora. I'll start a petition. Are you French by any chance?

Thomas Fraser So you're not French? That's something I'd like to discuss with you. Please don't dismiss it as lacking substance. It's important to me. And that's my truth.

Feels versus reals

You have listened and watched carefully, your conclusion is spot on.

Just like Sam Harris?

Id like to hear sam Harris do a debate with Christopher Bollyn, that guy is spreading such illogical shit like a 2 year old. I would love to see sam shit all over him

StripperTipper-405 but Christopher Bollyn is a apologist of unprecedented levels, sam Harris really needs to address some of the shit that come out of his mouth. Have u heard it? Its gross, he apologized for islam!

Russell never managed to step out of his own ego bubble 🫧 and in 2023 has gone full retard

Benjamin, are you sure it wasn’t a bit of wind?

hamza abid scam how exactly?

@King Log that probably sounded clever while you were typing,..read it again when you're a grown up.

@Jstewify like Beavis/Butthead philosophy degrees.

Fix your face

I guess it's all of the meditation he has done. Compare that to how Laurence Krauss shouted down the apologist WLC. Krauss was right of course, but he wasn't very fair to WLC and presented his points angrily.

Spot. On.

Taxtro completely agree. There were three of those debates and in each of them Laurence came across as impatient and angry. Not what is expected from a scientist in a civilized discourse. The worst part was that there were audience members who were cheering up that behavior. I have learnt so so much from Sam Harris just by watching his debates and especially how he handles the ad hominem attacks . amazing. I have tried to bring about change in my behavior by asking myself OK I'm in this situation how would Sam Harris handle it. More often than not it has worked. Try it. Tc . wish you well. Sorry for the late reply. Came back to this podcast and saw your msg.

yes he is calm , throwing hypothetical arguments, playing lose with definitions, staying away from considering other's perspectives. He sounds like a crafty monk.

Thanks jag. That’s an important observation. Sam does an incredible job of keeping the discussion focussed while not being condescending at all. Yes, Brand can be unnecessarily verbose but his ideas are not always disjointed fluff. Sam uncovered a lot of common objections to his own ideas, expressed however noisily by Brand. Sam walks the walk of Medidation - he genuinely listens and tries to understand what Brand is actually saying. Notice that he gradually calms Brand down by gaining his trust through thoughtful consideration of his ideas. I nearly walked away from this interview but ultimately found it interesting. Thanks to both guys for their efforts and for all the thoughtful comments from the public.

He needs to read Rule 9 from Jordan Peterson

That’s a fucken understatement!

Russell is punching way above his weight intellectually and it shows.

He has the capacity but his ego gets in the way.

Dan K better listener ? Lol he gave him 10 full minutes of non interruption 2 or 3 times throughout this interview.

This is what a deep conversation looks like...

Lack of brevity gets really annoying really fast

Yup. I like Russell, but from someone who has defended 'Islam' (or the version of which he is familiar) robustly, I'd have expected him to at least have read it in part.

he says he HAS read the koran.....

Pat H of course he bloody hasn't.

well probably not in arabic but the english version a very short and badly written book, ive read most of it. russel sure has.

hmm. why i not surprised a ginger read the koran.

Paul O'Dwyer i like russ and, as somebody trying and failing to overcome addiction, admire him for overcoming his own drug issues. But yes, he often performes poorly in political debates.

humble bugg it is not a question of performing poorly in debates, it is tHe fact that Russell is essentially dishonest when it comes to the subject of religion

He's not dishonest you just disagree with him. Simple as that. You don't need to invent some character fault on Brand's part.

Lodurr no , I disagree with you. Brand is dishonest about religion ,like all religious people, he knows he has no rational cause to believe in god but he has such an emotional investment in the idea of god, probably because of his recovered addict situation, that he uses utter nonsense arguments to defend that idea. in any other context he wouldn't dream of using such irrational crap.

Russell has rationalizations to believe in god. But even in your description you're not saying he's dishonest you're trying to say he's emotionally driven. Whatever happened to the marketplace of ideas? Why not engage with Russell's arguments instead of alleging that he's arguing in bad faith?

this comment is underrated

I couldn’t agree more!! Well done Sam! Russel deff wasn’t easy to deal with in this interview 😳

endless energy on pushing Islam as terrorist and was responsible for 911 which we all know it's an inside job.look at him hes an example of govt plant ..yeah I feel you my man

@@YearsOVDecay1 he keeps interrupting Sam and misrepresenting what Sam is saying. I’m not even a guy who agrees with Sam but I am a fan of his because he brings challenging ideas to the table and he’s a gentleman about it. The reason I started liking him is because in the debates I saw he wouldn’t interrupt people but instead made sure they had time to explain themselves. To me Russell’s behaviors like a Facebook argument coming to life.

Yeah, forty-two, I need you to explain. What's the problem with using that example, of how radical Islam treats girls? It's one of the best illustrations of religion causing suffering, one which unequivocally connects with the subjugation of half the population, which inevitably leads to the detriment of the culture as a whole. How does that offend your love of decency?

I was about to post the very same comment as I was watching this. Russell needs to actually listen with at least a fraction more interest.

I've heard him speak over many conversations and he is not making straw man arguments against Islam. He cites facts and compares Islam to other religions citing the fundamental differences between them. His argument against Islam is rational.

Yes it's perfectly rational to condemn a religion with 1.7 billion followers as intrinsically evil? Does that mean that there are 1.7 billion terrorists just waiting to blow the selves up because they can't stand Western 'freedom'?

nobody needs to listen to what Sam is saying. Do your own research.

That's definitely one issue, another is the constant unstated premise I personally feel lay at the heart of people like Russell and all those who argue his side it seems...and that unstated premise is ' no matter how much damage it does, how many people it kills and even how much someone can tell you to your fucking face why they did what they did...its NEVER Islam fault or PRIMARY cause and shame on you for suggesting otherwise!' Well maybe, just maybe...it is Islam's fault and shame on you for refusing to see otherwise. (not referring to you personally of course)

Word salad might convince some that Harris is smarter than he thinks he is but I'm not fooled by his verbal trickery in place of actual intellectual substance.

"smarter than he thinks he is"? As smart works better I think, or just plain smart. Either way, Brand didn't look good in this one.

A Moment In Time You are doing the same by calling a genuine intent to understand as word salad with no accuracy or nuance in why you would call it that, is in fact more word salad by you. Makes you worse actually.

@@mat_j False, he was both clear, and cogent and displayed both substance and intellect, with restraint and patience. I adore Russel, but this was not one of his better showings. Indeed, these scary bright people do highlight our insecurities especially when we disagree, but lack the ability to express ourselves with the same degree of eloquence.

Important: When I say ""feels like" an attack on the individual" I mean this from a basic, animalistic-survival-mechanism standpoint. The level of control and logic the individual possesses in that moment may intellectually be quite aware that it isn't a threat to their being, but the basic hardwiring of the human body is behaving as such.

Really he has? Like how?

@@linkypoo Just go watch Russel's podcast

lol...

I'm not sure about that but he is certainly capable of being less obtuse than this. I watched both his interviews with Jordan Peterson and he was good in both of those. He made good points, seemed to understand Jordan's and for the most part let him speak. This interview with Harris he was just annoying through out and even went as far as to literally refuse to participate in a thought experiment that Sam was trying to employ to help him explain.

That's great to hear, because this is torture.

All Sam talks about us either statistics, evidence,or common sense, Russell seems to have this strange idea that we are all the same and deep down all want the same things.

I'm not saying Sam us always right;but imagine a world where all Brands ideas are implemented, now do the same with Sams, and realistically and honestly which might actually work.

They are not "opinions" they are "beliefs". Russell is not sophisticated enough to have real opinions

OK, so hypothetically if there's a country that breaks the left arm of every woman. Is it wrong to use your hierarchy of belief to say, hey they should stop doing it?

@@thekrazyasian Yes, even then, it might seem harsh, but that's the best decision. Because, you not having any clue about their culture and languages can't understand them and cannot make the right decisions for them, you might make it worse which they always do, you can't find one country where they went to liberate and they're better off for it. It is always their inner battle, they know what's best for them. You cannot decide for them and should not decide for them. I'm not against helping undeveloped countries with financial aid, helping them with setting up schools, hospitals and basic infra, if they want it. You can help them with the choices they have made if they align with your sense of right and wrong, but you can't choose for them. That's the colonial mindset, thinking you know what's better for the "savages" (that's the kind of language that is used to control people).

​@thekrazyasian That's an extremely unreasonable and unrealistic example. But even then, the solution is to argue it out. Not drop explosives or place sanctions or propagandize in the name of "freedom" and "democracy" which the West has a good track record of doing. And this track record is precisely part of the reason why people from a lot of countries think that the West is no position to get on its moral high horse.

@@thekrazyasian Say what you want, the point is to not interfere... In many African countries, homosexuality is punishable by death but the majority of Africans agree with this. We can say it's wrong but at the end of the day, it's their culture. We often ignore the fact that our (the Wests) interference causes more suffering than it does Good and we set other nations back decades in terms of societal growth. In Barack Obamas First term, he was against gay marriage and then he changed his stance in his second term. A country needs to at least have the basics down (e.g. unemployment AND NOT GETTING BOMBED TO SMITHEREENS) before it can look to tackle societal issues...

@@Symbiot7 not interfere? If we “didn’t interfere” and maintained the same energy you possess of moral relativism/cultural relativism to nazi’s, you’d have to (according to your own views) just throw your arms up in the air because it’s the “german nazi culture and, hey, who are we to judge their culture of exterminating jewish people!” That’s essentially what you are defending when you say that there arent right or wrong ways a society ought to be living, and that every culture is as equal as the next. And, hey like you said, who are we to judge nazi’s killing jews, or muslims mutilating little girls genitalia? Come on

And?

....and they are authoritarian and utterly repugnant positions.

Not entirely. Just because Jordan B Peterson has come up with some exciting new labels doesn't mean that you can just paste them all over the first ignoramus you come across. He's certainly Post Modernist, he's certainly a Moral Relativist... but he hasn't got a Marxist thought in head. Neo or otherwise.

Ronnie James I'm afraid you are completely wrong. Russell has spoken of Marx's ideas in his talks in the past and revels in socialist ideals. Oh and Jordan Peterson didn't come up with the labels, he simply brought them to prominence as he saw them being implemented within institutions all across the western world. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iN9_kpOnldvRfJ8.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e7JnraiHzbasgYk.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/achjgqdhz7K9XaM.html

He may have made those labels more prominent for some people but he misrepresents the positions.

Summed up perfectly.

To a man with a hammer, everything is a nail.

Rabbit Hunter - What about "slwoing dwon" when you type so your words don't add more confusion to your babbling and ad hominem attacks?

tricky2014 * disappointing

And Harris is guilty of using a straw man argument, i.e., sending your daughter to spend the summer with the Taliban. This isn't a reasonable analogy. It's like asking Harris if he'd let his daughter go live at the Warren Jeffs Mormon sect, or with the KKK. No sane person would want their kid to live in a war zone with a terrorist organization. Using the Taliban as a typical Islamic organization is clearly misguided. Now that is disappointing, unless you listen to Harris for tips on how to be a great Sophist.