Remember - xt levers use BH90 hose. The cheaper levers use the BH59 hose. BH90 hose has a narrower bore, and the xt lever unit is developed for that. So if you connect the xt levers to the bigger bore BH59 HOSE you are not going to get the proper results. The "bite" point will wander, because the fluid force amount pumped will be dissipated by the larger cross sectional area of the internal bore multiplied by the hose length. Also note BH90 uses the grey barb insets, whereas BH59 uses the larger diameter gold coloured barbs. The outer casing has the same external diameter so the olives are common to both. In any case, people very much under rate the cheaper M400 series units - they are a good brake. Regards Tony Sadler South Wales UK 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.

Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.

I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.

Now that's a good honest review..thanks mate

One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.

I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!

Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.

Very useful info

Totally agree with this review. I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).

Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.

It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.

In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.

Great info

I was hoping for you to compare m6100 instead of m4100 brakes. Good content!

I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.

I am very happy to land on this video as I was wondering for the past few months if it was worth it to upgrade. I also have the same bike Marin AlpineTrail 7 and have upgrade some components but kept the brake since they are working quite nicely on Enduro/DH. Sounds like I would also need to replace the disk, pads etc if I upgrade the shifter and calipers. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think. I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking. And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.

4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.

Thanks for the info . I am building a mtb and so far i have got everything shimano xt m8100. And i haven't decided about the breaks but 4 piston sounds good😮 i was thinking magura 😮

The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price. I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!

Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)

thank you! I’m new in the game; I only got my bike this summer because my dog doesn’t like trail runs & I need the massive workout I get from uphills. I fear downhills a lot on a bike, so I watched your review to get confidence in my MT400 😁 I guess they’re similar to 410 right?

I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...

I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.

Surprised to see your take so far. Am looking forward to seeing how they handle extended use on long downhill runs.

Reach adjustment is also posible on the 4100 Lever by using a hexwrench, i don't know exactly wich number. An amazing video, thank you!

Hi jared. I have a shimano mt200 brakes. And i want change to deore m4100. Is it worth it? Is there much difference? Thank you :)

I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.

Thank you!

great vid! can you use different background music? feel like ive heard it so many times!

I use the SLX BL-M7100 lever and I love them.

I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.

I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders

we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think? I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking

I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed. The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best. For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.

Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))

Nice video, good music and good content. But, I don’t know where you get those prices at minute 8.35? I live in Germany. I got a set of the 820s front and back with caliper and lever which cost me on sale 279.00 Euros. The 420s brake set is currently selling for about 140.00 Euros front and back. The 410s front and back go for only 42.00 Euros!

I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well. Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises. I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.

The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes. My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons. After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure. My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.

i have the Shimano M401 breaks and the same levers and they do have a tiny screw that is hidden that allows you to adjust the lever reach.

TRP brakes . I'm not spending an arm n leg though . Great review and new subscriber . Appreciate you and looking forward to more content

SLX brakes are just as good as XT.

The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.

After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.

Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.

Four piston vs two piston is the main issue one should be concerned about . i have two piston on my older model cube and go four piston magura (mt5) on my Nox . the difference in stopping power is huge

M420 calipers take the same pads as my Shimano Zees and Saints on my other bikes. Swapped out the levers to M7100 levers to have a simlar feel to my Zees and Saints. Have them equipped on my Trek Rail 7 and to be honest, I don't notice any difference in stopping performance. My wife prefers this setup compared to the zees on her Mega

I am running those 4100 on Hayes rotors 180mm great brake power 😮

I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?

I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components. My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts. I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action. The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force. Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer. Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared. Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors. The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each. So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors. However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!

The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose. Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401. Along with XT in terms of rigidity.

bro just enlightened me and my wallet on why not to buy XT when you hai shinano 401 ❤️😂 bro saved my money

I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄

Right! ! Can't be clearer than water. I do agree..!

4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .

Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..

I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.

this is currently my conundrum, I'm running MT200s and I'm thinking of upgrading to either MT501s or M6100s. My thing is, they are both 2-piston brakes, and both levers look almost exactly the same but the MT501s are about $30-$40 cheaper each. I honestly have no problem with the stopping power of the MT200s, I just don't like the lever design. I could just replace the MT200 levers with MT501 levers but then I'm spending around $90 just for both the levers, so I may as well just spend a little bit more and buy a whole new brake.

Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?

impressive video! now i ride myself on quite some expensive stuff, but im in a very privileged position my employer covers for all these kind of cost. way too often you tube content creators are just advertising for expensive stuff a hell lot of people simply can not afford. and the question is rarely asked, do you need this? shimano is quality as a brand and basic stuff will do just fine for so many people. i can not praise you enough for this. lots of people follow blindly youtubers advice! consider myself a new fan!

Regular Shimano hydrolic disk brakes work for me.I have them on multiple bikes for years with no problems

i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊

It sure makes a difference when you take the long 3mile downhill trail i love near me, my first bike was carrera with them cheap ones and by half way they where cooked had basically stop, now i have carbon nukeproof with m8120 and i can do the run for hours without an issue apart from how fat and old and my slow pedal back up, depends on your level they cheaper brakes are perfect for young boys on budget bikes but if you gonna go hard get the best. Application is key.

Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?

one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result! the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the 4100s still have a reach adjustment? You just use a small wrench instead of the knob on the XT

I have Shimano mt 501/500 and they brake perfectly! But Servo Wave it's a great invention! feel the difference

Actually there is a reach adjustment on the 4100. It's a small Allen screw right inside the hinge. All non series has it in fact.

I've ridden both the full XT br m-8020 setup and the lower end mt410 setup same rotor size and same pad compound nothing can even compare or come near to the power of the XT lever and pad setup 👍

100% agree with this video. My ebike came with Deore 2-pot (MT-6100) brakes with 180mm rotors front and rear. When I got it everyone was telling me those brakes won't cut it and I'll have to upgrade to higher level 4-pot brakes. I did increase the front rotor to 203mm but kept everything else the same and after 2 full seasons with them they're perfectly fine and I've had no issues with them. I have two other analog bikes (1 hardtail and 1 full suspension) and they both came with 4-pot brakes and although they work well I don't think they're that much better than the Deore 2-pot brakes. I'm cuilding another hardtail and I'm using the same Deore 2-pot brakes on it.

My favorite thing about xt brakes is how expensive they are, how they start to leak after a few hard rides, and how you have to buy new ones because shimano won’t sell you just a lever or a rebuild kit.

I wonder if it depends on where you go. Sometimes I go down a serpentswinging road, declining 8% for 5 km. I guess that is a road where brake quality makes a difference. When I go to work, 17 km, there are no big declines and all decent brakes are good enough.

I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.

M4100 on chain reaction £16.99 at moment which is fairly amazing

I suspect that The wandering bite point is because the operator didnt service the brake right. I never had that issue when i fully back out the free stroke and set the brake pad properly. I dont adjust the free stroke until i have the right gap on the pads and rotor.

$4600 Anthem Advanced spec'd with 4100 brakes. That's XT level price, but I guess I'll try the 4100s out when that bike is built today. Curious about weight comparison?

the cheaper have resin pistons that can melt at high pad temperature instead of transferring the heat to the oil like the ceramic pistons on SLX and higher. also, the m6100 levers are barely more expensive than m4100 but can improve on the M4100 series brakes. the 4 pot calipers for sure runs on BH90, so no problem combinig it with m6100 levers

%100 Agree ! Did some tests too, the Shimano cheapest felt the same in all ! Just a $$$ grab !

I have MT200 on My bike . I'm Thinking Switching a Slx lever . I don't like the lever feel of Non series but the power of that cheap ones is enough I just need to change the Hose to BH90

YES, I thought I was going crazy but the cheap shimano do work way way better than expected and I not only have the basic shimano but Saint, Zee, Sram guide and Hope tech brakes to compare....

I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!

i will switch from Cube Action Team with XT Breaks to Touring MTB with MT420 Breaks. Now i think its good for Ebike Touring.

u can actually also adjust the lever reach on the cheap ones by tightening or losing the screw inside the lever with a L

Push both of those brake options to the failure point, that would give you the defining answer.

I had a 2020 trek fuel ex 9.7 equipped with the mt4100 levers, I was convinced to swap levers to the mt8100, the feel was not even close to the same, mt8100 was so much worse, couldn't bleed them enough to get enough bite back, worst swap I'd ever done, also I was working at a shop that had access to shimano parts and got a good discount, but it ruined how my bike felt

I have identical brakes on 2 of my bikes... The difference in braking power is more than obvious... that's why I ordered slx levers, so I will install them on the MT420. Servo wave provides braking power and the levers without them are at least 40% weaker in my free estimate.

Not to mention - when the servo wave cracks inside the XT levers, you can't buy just the servo wave piece to replace the cracked one.... You have to buy a new lever. for that reason alone, I'd buy the 420's.

I'm looking for a brake with a large piston retraction. Can you recommend something?

How do you put fringe on those little brake levers? That's the important question.

Even you the set-up of the comparison is not ideal you have followed some proper "guidelines". Same bike, same rider and I'm assuming same trail thus reducing the "noise" from other experimental variables. And of course you used actual "mid-range" brakes instead of the really shitty ones other comparison videos use. In all honesty nicely done. Edit: You earned yourself a subscriber.

I noticed with the brakes with servo wave the lever felt like when opening a locking pliers, it just snaps! I hate that feeling.

1:00 A issue with this design on Deore m615, M6000,6100 brakes is reach adjustment effects the power, how farther piston can be pressed. There is no adjustment to counter act that, so if you have long fingers, you have a powerful brake, and with short fingers, but adjusted for short fingers, a smal child the brake pads will barely touch the rotor, so the brakes won't be functional at all. the stock position fits me, but lacks power.

I have a set of Magura Gustav brakes (front) that have been running olive oil for some 20 years now.. the top reservoir bellows went hard so I replaced it with a bit of innertube... They would cook on the longest downhill runs if I was constantly on the brakes.. so it comes down to.. Are your brakes OK.. or do you need more.. You can upgrade in bits... Maybe go for the alloy spoke disk next time yours wear out... Go for vented pads if you can upgrade... If your happy with finger position, maybe just try replacing the caliper. Watch KZfaq... there are a lot of toobers that ride similar to you, and have tried a lot of different brakes (Jared as we're here, or Wolftick Videos for instance). There are some cheap options that are actually good brakes (and some expensive ones that are crap). Personally I upgraded from my old Foes (with the Magura Hayes combo) to an old Giant Faith that was well worn, but had some old upgrades (like XT brakes)... When I got it, the brakes were soaked in oil and squealed like a pig.. (and stopped sometime later on the day you applied them... or at least slowed down). With a REAL clean.. washing pads in meths, then brake clean, wiping with paper towels, repeat... until the black pads were a dusty brown again, and I immediately went from a life of full grip, to one finger stopping. (You can see the old pads in my 1st 2-3 videos vs right up to today still running the cleaned 2nd hand gear...) So I guess where I'm going with that is... another option is 2nd hand, then fully clean them, and you may be able to pick up some expensive gear from someone that thinks new is easier than a service... or an upgrade to this month's model will make them so much faster than they were with last months gear. My 2010 Faith is just as good as a new bike if the rider is just as mediocre as me!

Have you tried the 6100? I ride a heavy Levo and I am not too impressed with the Sram Code DOT brakes, they are noisy, squishy, and a PITA to work on compared to my XT8100 on my 5010. I found a good deal on Ebay for the 6100s, $104.00 a set. I am a cheapskate but I love good brakes.

Got the M500 or how they are named on my full sus(I hate them) and the slx on my Dirtjumper. The slx is so powerful, even on those 160mm discs.

I'm using the mt/bl400's and a complete set cost me around 70 euro, incl rotors. Even those are good enough for 90% of the ppl here, but we don't have real downhill stuff. Mainly flat trails and a few hills cause yeah..The Netherlands

So if you run a sram gx group set can you still slap shimano ice tech rotors and Xt brake levers a calipers?or would would Magura mt trail sport brakes be better?

I Run Saints 220/203 MTX Reds 2.5Wt 😎 all depends on the bike and use . I Ride A CF Warden In Vancouver Daily 🙃 buy Good brakes you Like .... setup is key

Budget brake (I have a Deore) with the right maintenance (clean oil, center disk, clean pads & disk) you have more than enough for most average even good riders. Now you still can have better for sure, but the price difference often doesn't reflect the improvement... Remember adverts are make for you to spend money and Pro riders are the advert...