I to have been doing this mixing of files to get the ultimate hook angle, it is nice to have my ideas confirmed by someone as yourself, thanks for posting your expertise.

I was taught this many years ago by older timber cutters years ago, when you start hearing it from different people and different parts of the world you take notice. I learned years ago watch the older timber cutters and ask questions.

Thanks Richard, I learned more from your sharpening videos than anyone on you tube!

Makes perfect sense!! Really helped to understand the difference in files!! I’m not new to saws but I am new to taking sharpening and caring for them seriously since buying the two new stihls and iv learned a lot from your channel!! Thanks to you I now have 3 six packs of 1 gallon mixers of stihl ultra setting on the shelf that I won’t be using in my new saws. Since finding this channel iv switched to red armor oil mixed at 40:1 . Good info and I always look forward to your videos coming out especially the oil ones!!

Been free hand filing for around 3 years but just started doing this about a year ago! When the tooth gets short enough that you start filing the chassis and loosing hook, (I've always started with 7/32 for ⅜) as you demonstrated, just grab the next smaller size file. Only makes sense to me! Thanks for confirming I'm not crazy😂👍🏻

I am very impressed, I always thought file size to chain size was law, but this makes perfect sense. Thanks for the information.

Your my favorite guy on you tube when it comes to anything chainsaw. Love the content, always a pleasure to watch 👍👍😎

Excellent discussions and points Mr. Richard, I have even dropped into a 5/32 on a .375- 3/8 chain. Your paper visuals are very good as well...

Thanks Pop this helped a lot, I've watched quite a few videos before I found this one. Seriously, thank you.

Always enjoy your uploads mate thankyou

Really appreciate the information and discussion, just an everyday guy learning to file better. Thank you.

Interesting info. I have never sharpened my chains like that. Will give it a try soon.

The best filing video I've seen. Close to what I was taught at the STIHL factory. 🍻

This was very helpful Rich appreciate it. Makes total sense.

Thanks for the helpful information. I’ll have to try this.

Great explanation, Richard I like how you put it on the paper you can really see how it changes things I only ever square grind but this was great to think about keep up the good work buddy 👍

Hey Rich, another saw wielding Rich here from the UK! I run my saws 5 days a week doing a lot of felling and firewood bucking professionally , so sharpen my teeth regularly. I run 3/8 full comp X cuts on my 562 and 592, using the 7/32 file as recommended. However I ALWAYS tickle the cutter deep under the top plate a little bit to maintain a C profile then hit the upper part ensuring the top plate is being sharpened. I believe Buckin calls it 'gettin the gullet'? Just like your suggesting here, once the cutters are reaching the end of their lives I step down to a 3/16 for around half the passes per tooth for each sharpening session which keeps the hook alive. Life is a simultaneous sequence of learning and teaching, whilst im still relatively young in the tree game (28 years old, 4 years in) I'm finding that I'm passing on this information to a lot of people who did not know. It certainly isn't taught during the chainsaw maintenance certs we have in the UK. Now i''ll recommend this video whenever I'm trying to explain it to people! All the best, loving the saw content you bring out, perfect for sticking on whilst doing saw maintenance 👍👍

A sharp top plate is where the rubber meets the road, plus proper depth gauge setting. Your drawings show how to get there.

Great video it certainly explains why my chain sharpening is better on newer chains

Years ago it was recommended by the chain companies to switch from 7/32 to 13/64 as the cutter was filed back in 3/8 chain. The same was recommended on 3/8 lp to go from 5/32 to 1/8, Surprised me with the Solo, Most people have never heard of them. I sold them from 2000-2010.

Thanks for these excellent points ,(no pun intended ☺) they give confidence to me because I was thinking on roughly the same lines but don't know any experienced people to confirm .Thanks Again from UK.

Most look at the tooth and side plate angles in relation to the guide bar. The tooth doesn’t use that position as it lines up to take the chip out. It rocks and rolls back and forth as the angle of the side plate and chisel angle are then set by the depth gauge.

Say goodbye to that tooth 😂. All the other teeth are almost factory length but that tooth has left town

I'm cheap and run my chains until the teeth start breaking off. Use 7/32 than 13/64 end 3/16 when close to witness marks and beyond. Just like you explained. Nicely done video as ALWAYS 👍😎.

great demo....thumbs up !!

Stihl say 13/64 on their 3/8 chain. Oregon/ Husqvarna says 7/32 on their 3/8 chain. I try to comply and have both files in my sharpening set, Stihl of course. Most of my chains are RS Stihl but I have a bunch of LGX chains. I use Stihl files, mostly, but they do not carry a 7/32 file, so I buy Oregon files for these. The wooden file handles on my files are marked which chain they are for and their size. If I accidentally used the wrong file I would not let it bother me because there are only minuscule differences between the two files.

I've had very good luck with Pferd files. And stepping down a size as the tooth gets shorter makes a lot of sense 🤔

I like to dig in it helps to get the same size hook on all the teeth and the bigger file keeps a bigger circumference

Great points! I like to start with the 7/32 and finish up as thechain wears out a 13/64 or 3/16 depending how much the tooth slopes back. Now Richard, we need to talk about the husky bar on the Stihl saw, when everyone Elsie is doing the opposite and putting Stihl light bars on huskies! 😜👍

Interesting - makes great sense. Thanks for sharing. 👍👍

The same applies when using a grinder. Use 3/16 wheel until half the top plate is gone and then drop to 1/8. I actually had Diamond Wheel make me a 7/64 wheel for sharpening 3/8LP when they get worn half way. My son, a tree climber, grabs all the chains his company would throw away when the top plate gets worn half way and I grind them so they cut better than new because there is less drag as the tooth gets smaller. If you look at a John Reilly race chain he files back almost to the witness mark and than takes some off the backside to further reduce drag!

I do agree with matching the chain yo the power head and the type of wood yo be cut chow

I’ve told that to people for a long time there answer was they don’t want to buy 2 sizes but it works good

This really makes a load of sense, as in an emergency my supplier, who had run out of 7/32 stock, gave me a 13/64... suggesting it was the 'wrong' size, but it would do just fine (for a well worked chain). I will certainly keep a set of both diameters from now on.

You've got great sharpness Rich. But have you given any thought to chip clearance? The different file sizes affect chip clearance somewhat. Just food for thought. Nice videos on sharpening. 👍

Stihl chains I use the 13/64, Husqvarna chain 7/32 file, will definitely be trying the downsize nearing the end

Great info

awesome piece of info!!!! iwillappy it and use smaller diameter files as the teeth get smaller.

I'm done buying all the Def size files. I'm only getting 2 sizes now. 5/32 and 3/16. 5/32 for quarter pitch and sometimes 3/8lp . 3/16 on everything else.

I always thought 3/8 and.325 even 404 were referring to the distance between the drive links and not the size of the teeth.

Nice,I never considered the effect that wear has on the heights of the tapered cutting teeth.As the heights of the tooth decreases,a smaller file would give you a better tooth profile.I’ve always used one size for the full life of the chain,but always noticed,as the teeth were wearing shorter they never cut as well,even tho I also filed the followers down.

As you said, as you file down, the tooth gets narrower. On a new chain, and pretty much only on a new chain, Stihl chain cutters are just a little bit wider than Husky and Oregon chain cutters.

I have been studying chainsaw tooth geometry lately myself and noticed that the Oregon EXL chain does not have a lot of side hook in their design. I suspect from the testing that I have done and talking with Oregon tech that this aids in smoothness of cut and longer overall cutting performance. A happy medium so to speak to longer acceptable cutting performance before a touch up is needed. Too much side hook and the working corner of the tooth tends to bend down and stops cutting and too little side hook and you end up with a scrapper instead of a cutter.

I use the 7/32 for both I think it fills the tooth better I don’t care what the engineers at stihl say they don’t do tree work

Excellent video Richard. You are correct about so many ways of skinning the cat. I like those handles you have on those files. Looked like a set screw or something on them? That would sure beat the wood handle that seems to loosen up with time. Thanks for the drawings!

Totally makes sense. I'm one of those guys that thinks in mm. Probably from the shooting sports. Great concept. I'm going to try it.

I always use a 7/32 of 5.5 mm file for 3/8 chains. I file into the plane when it gets to the end of it's life. Don't worry, filing into the plane will not cause your chain to break. I know with a 4.8 mm file you don't have that problem but with a 4.8 mm file it's so easy to go to deep and end up with a very thin sharp cutting angle that gets dull very fast. When you hit something with that sharp angle the dammage will be a lot more than with a correct angle. On the old chain boxes there was a drawing that showed your file should be about 1/5th of it's diameter above the top of the chisel, to get the longest standing cut before it gets dull. So too sharp angles, avoid them.

I use 7/32 for the entire life of the chain on 3/8. I don’t think that you should be going as deep in your filing that you do because your making your VERY sharp tooth VERY weak. I go with the 20% file stick not showing and it cuts very well with having my depth gauges set at 30 or the softwood setting. BTW, try using a progressive depth gauge tool instead of that static style that you’re using. If you want one that a file ain’t going to wear down (cut down) get it from West Coast Saw because I have only managed to wear off the bluing that they ship it with but not the material.

Richard, curiosily enough I have both Stihl and Oregon 3/8 chains and Oregon also recommend a 7/32 file for 3/8 chain.

What does the depth gauge do to the angle the tooth hits the fiber? If you have a smaller hook on the side plate and chisel angle versus larger diameter and you change the depth gauge. Does it compensate for the side plate hook as it severs the ribbon of chip out of the kerf?

What about 3/16 if you’re doing it by hand only ?? Seems to work great and cuts good plus easy to do in field 😊

I need to know about those file handles.

Rich the smaller file will create a sharper tooth with the more agressive undercut. Downside, while it will cut faster out of the gate, it will dull faster. No biggie if you can touch up the chain on the saw. To each their own preference.

Where u get those file handles..can I buy some from ya??

Started square hand filing but it's impossible until stihl chain gets halfway gone

Yes there are so many ways to sharpen. People that cut many trees every day, will get their chains dialed in. I can remember when I was starting out, I thought a deep hook was the way to go. What it is, is a balancing act. Hook, Raker depth, and support for the cutting edge. The more the hook the less support the cutting edge has. So having said that like every saw person I like my saw to cut fast, smooth and to hold an edge. Depending on what you are cutting. Cutting wood with mud at the landing, a durable edge is important. Less hook is better.

What we need is China to make a good affordable copy of the old silvey razor sharp II square grinder. The problem with using files is, you can’t can’t get an acute enough angle on the underside of your top plate without leaving a big beak that dulls quickly. Same with the side of the cutter. Best you can do with a round file is a compromise where as a good square grind you can rip with unmodified. And it doesn’t dull near as quickly. The other reality is a file is to coarse to leave a sharp edge without unsupported feathers. So you are already at a disadvantage. To obtuse of a cutting edge angle, to sharp of a top plate angle leaving a weak point and to coarse of an edge that leaves microscopic feathers. Square grinding solves all those issues but a simington is 3to 4 times what the old silveys went for. At least the entry level razur sharp that was capable of making a great chain. Anyway, none of that is news to you I’m sure. And a lot of the younger guys won’t really understand what I tried to say. lol 👍🏼👍🏼

Would you use a smaller size file as your chain wears

Hey mate I have a 545 husky that's needs some work. I have had it in service for 3 years last year it's only had full synthetic quicksilver at 32.1. It would b a good one for your oil testing. It's bone stock. How can I get into ugh with u?

True thoug as the tooth gets smaller

Does a 3/8”LP picco chain use the same depth gauge as a non-picco (low profile) 3/8” chain???

The thing is you don't want to much of a hook cause the skinnier the top plate of the tooth is to the hook the quicker it will get dull. Yes it will be very sharp for a little bit and cut like a hot knife through butter it won't last, and you'll be back to sharpening that chain again very shortly.

I use 7/32 on a 3/8 tooth

just remember freddy flints stones car roof it works better for me or smaller file cuts better

I have found, when I first sharpen the tooth, I have the file guide on the file . O sharpen the chain, then take the guide off and sharpen the chain again . Bye doing this, it sharpens the gullet.

Prefer the smaller size file. Gotta get the 'gullet' !

Do you use the amount over the tooth for the file size? Good information. Take care.

I like the metal file hangles. Where can I buy ?

Richard what file handles do you use? I like 'em...

I like intense cut by husky. I bought pferd in 3/16 never again. Woodland pro files r better then pferd. Just my opinion.

Just a comment, when you get those abused teeth that get a rounded edge you can true them with a flat file and then sharpen. Saves a lot of tooth.

I got a dewalt chainsaw chain is s oragon 91px068x 3/8 lp 0.050 from what I can find out its the advance cut but can't find like size anywere do you have any idea thanks

I think Oregon and Stihl have a better chain. I've found that some Husqvarna out of the box chainsaws that come with the bar and chain like the 455 rancher use an entry level chain on some of them. I don't like the H40 Husqvarna chain. Too soft of a material and if the top deck of the tooth has long grooves towards the back and it chips while sharpening the chain is pretty much garbage. They made more robust chains back in the day. I've also noticed with the chain in the video that your teeth decks on your teeth aren't the same length, that's pretty much typical of the Husqvarna chains as well. They don't get an even cut like that and I find that it grabs as well if the lengths vary that much and the teeth bend to one side. I would get a new chain at that point.

well when those "engineers' are doing my work for me.......then ill listen to them, 7/32 is a sweet file no need to fix it! Kinda like how they think the little mermaid needs to be redone, nah its fine the way it was!

Richard, where did you find those file handles? I need some of those.

what file handle is that?

Damn so many fractions and numbers. Why not give up the british stuff after winning the war and embrace the french meter system 💅💅? Ahem

dizzy video!

*Converts to Metric*

Crype! Why do you file so many strokes? Sharp is sharp, no reason to waste so much tooth. Hook is OK for clean soft wood, but with heavy gritty bark and hand woods it is best to maintain the original profile even if you do need to step down a size at half life.

Terrible camera work, fella. I got motion sickness with you waving the camera all over the place. OMG

Id like to see the hexa file used and in action.