What the heck is SPINORAMA?! || Understanding the Measurements Part 3

Рет қаралды 7,048

3 жыл бұрын

Link to CTA-2034 Specification Download:
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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Пікірлер: 45

@homeboi808 3 жыл бұрын

Clarifications Early Reflections: * It goes up to +60°V, not +40°V. * It includes +/-100° H to +/-170°H; Todd Welti confirmed it should use the Vertical Reflections & Horizontal Reflections, which are defined below it in the paper; and the Rear Wall Bounce definition in the Early Reflections is incorrect. It should be 180°H to +/-90°, not “180°, +/-90°”. Sound Power: * The data is weighted by angle, whose weights are defined in the paper. __________ Erin, if you have been using what Klippel spits out for the Spin and not calculating it yourself, then your ER & PIR curves are all slightly incorrect (most influence is at the crossover region).

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

The Klippel curves are correct. I have an updated template. I discussed this on ASR. 👍 The values came from the standard so the standard needs to be updated/corrected. They need an editor. I’ll update this in the description. Yes, SP is weighted by angle. But there isn’t enough space to fit that information in the sentence. 😉

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Also, I pinned your reply so others will see it. 👍

@IrenESorius 3 жыл бұрын

To sell a speaker without a Spinorama sheet should be forbidden by law. Thanks and cheers Professor E. 🍻😎👍‍‍ Your a true ⭐.

@noahnovotny2100 3 жыл бұрын

Directivity is such an overlooked characteristic when building speakers. People don't realize the effect it has on the in-room response. I bought a pair of klipsch rp600m for my college apartment which was all hardwood floors, drywall, and windows. I was surprised by what I heard, a nearly perfectly balanced speaker. I brought them home and set them up in my treated listening room and holy cow were they a different speaker. It sounded like the mids were down 3dB and the treble was boosted 3dB. The problem was clearly that the horn made the highs very directional, so the mids were bouncing off all the walls in my apartment and thus being higher in level. When I put them in a room with carpet and absorption the mid reflections went away causing an anemic, bright response. This essentially makes almost all hifi reviewer's opinions irrelevant because, unless they take directivity measurements, or at least know what it is, you don't know what you're getting. I love the series so far and am really looking forward to hearing what you have to say about distortion and what harmonics might be more important to stay away from than others.

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

I was going to have a video on Distortion but have decided to use my discussion with Dr. Earl Geddes (one of the leading researchers in to distortion) take the place of that. There is no way I could describe the topic as well as he does because it is really not so trivial. If you haven't seen that, here is the link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oNR1erp3qq3Unas.html

@rafalobo5308 3 жыл бұрын

One of the conclusions I get from your videos is that speakers manufactures sell us their products more like perfume than an object that has an engineering thinking behind its creation. Thanks again for your much appreciated content.

@Kevin.L_ 3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the effort this series requires of you. I am most definitely learning more each video. I do hope you continue to share. You are doing a fine job with enough detail to answer questions without complete information overload. Looking forward to the next episode!

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I appreciate that feedback.

@JMT34237 3 жыл бұрын

Erin I want to congratulate you on your channel. Its growing quickly which is not a surprise. Your brains & relatable presence combined with the tech you have on hand is a recipe for success in this space. Thank you for doing what you do. Keep it up!

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Man, that’s a great compliment. I appreciate that!

@derekjarman1638 3 жыл бұрын

Great series Erin! Thanks for putting this together👍👍

@vitaliistep 5 ай бұрын

That's why there is a lot of acouttic treatment on the wall behind monitors in the studio control rooms, to eliminate the rear wall bounce.

@thomascochran3641 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your scientific bias and honesty. Both are hard to find these days!

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. And I agree. That’s what prompted me to start this channel.

@BoredSilly666 3 жыл бұрын

Great Video Thanks, helped me understand Spinorama better. Nice one

@pfritts3111 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again for these videos!

@tomaszoslizo9226 3 жыл бұрын

Great video and explanation. You are doing great job.

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@VinceLikesTacos 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for all the content

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 ай бұрын

Oh, wow! Thank you!

@chandrahasan3225 3 жыл бұрын

Thumbs up man 👍 thank you for your teaching

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

@keepingupwiththejones2933 3 жыл бұрын

How you get it. What it's used for. Love the simplicity you use to explain complex audio concepts.

@vinylcabasse Жыл бұрын

i'd love to see a spinorama comparison of a convex (regular) vs concave dome tweeter of similar type. i've read conflicting information about which one has the best dispersion at the extremes; i'd assume it would be the standard dome (as the driver surface is visible more at the absolute extremes) but i've also ready that focal's inverted domes are more consistent off axis.

@davidatrakchi2707 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again, I sure learned a lot!

@we8463 3 жыл бұрын

If you add absorption behind the speakers would that eliminate the fronts wall bounce

@ChadAV69 8 ай бұрын

Can you try to help me understand how a smooth ERDI is better for EQ ability? I just can’t wrap my head around it

@damau5687 3 жыл бұрын

Wow!🙏

@gerritgovaerts8443 3 жыл бұрын

I am not sure whether high or low directivity is really an issue , the main thing for me is constant directivity over the complete frequency range . Low directivity is OK as long as you position the speakers far enough (min 1 meter) from any boundary , such that all indirect reflected sound enters your ear long enough after the direct sound , so that your brain can make the difference between them

@hni7458 3 ай бұрын

Erin, does orthoacoustics ring a bell for you? I'm hinting at a compromise btw tight sweet spots (high ERDI) and omnidirectionals (flat in that respect). Here in Scandinavia we used to like the Carlsson (Sonab) speakers; every home had two back in the day. Some, like I, still do. Those speakers would give quite flat ERDIs using the first back wall as a reflector, this w/o any tendencies to omnidirectionality. Reportedly, old Carlsson nearly blew his top gasket when the marketing unit at Sonab mistook the concept for being omni.

@Librarian1960Five5Five 3 жыл бұрын

Any chance on doing some Spinorama on some oldschool classics like the A/D/S speakers or old infinities

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

Not at this point in time but I did do some testing of the Bose 901 Series V last summer. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ibidfdJk3puugX0.html

@nattydj8646 3 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. I guess the Spinorama is particularly useful for deciding what speakers will work best in an untreated room. But is the off axis graph better if one is designing a room with room treatment?

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

The off-axis data is useful for many reasons. To determine how smooth the response off-axis is (whether what is reflected will sound similar to what you hear directly from the speaker) as well as determining things like soundstage width.

@peteleoni9665 Жыл бұрын

Do understand my freinds, that the one thing not often thought about enough is the horrid compression that happens in direct radiator speakers at higher volume levels. This is where true fidelity lives. It *is* about dynamics. Bless Toole, we have whipped the other issues. Why do people not understand how that subtle compression is spoiling things?

@ErinsAudioCorner Жыл бұрын

That’s part 5 of this series. 👍🙂

@peteleoni9665 Жыл бұрын

@@ErinsAudioCorner That is great. This is why people will listen to uneven Klipsch speakers. What is needed is all the non compression / efficiency/ dynamics of a Klipsch Heritage combined with the flat fr and good polars of these newer monitors.

@dennyalexander3891 3 жыл бұрын

What is the flattest reference speaker you have measured?

@ErinsAudioCorner 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oJloms6Ekreclmw.html

@davidjanszen2098 2 жыл бұрын

Seems like something is wrong with those plots, assuming the descriptions aren't erroneous. There are two ways to eliminate all ambient sound and leave only the direct sound, other than operating in an anechoic chamber, and they both truncate the bass response to wavelengths in accordance with the speed of a sweep or the gated time of the impulse response. For instance, to get rid of reflections from side walls that are three feet from the speakers, everything below about 380 Hz (1136 ft/s ÷ 3ft) will be missing from the data set. That's lower than the actual cutoff would be, since it's really the path difference that matters, but close enough to make the point. So where did the bass response come from?

@ErinsAudioCorner 2 жыл бұрын

These aren’t gated responses. These are (better than) anechoic using the Klippel Near Field Scanner.

@lLemonadel Жыл бұрын

If it’s not gated, how does it not pick up reflections from nearby surfaces? David is right, typically you would window the impulse to remove unwanted energy from reflections, however due to the constraints of physics you can’t reliably measure at low frequencies with a short impulse due to the increased wavelengths at lower frequencies, and the need to acquire multiple cycles to accurately measure. Appreciate all the information you put out here by the way.

@policeman0077 2 жыл бұрын

👍👍👍

@pliedtka 3 жыл бұрын

Sound power/directivity - I always look into how well the drivers integrate transitioning from one driver to another. Yeah, the Klipsch looks like disaster - absolute heresy it is from point of acoustic measurements