Why is the damsel in distress trying to be subverted anymore? It's been subverted for 20 years now. It'd be more subversive to HAVE an *actual* damsel in distress

Peach is perfectly capable, but when you're trapped in a cage by a fire breathing lizard there's not much you can do lol

Nothing wrong with having a Damsel in distress. Nothing wrong with needing help sometimes.

Peach is a damsel in distress for a living! And yet when it's her turn to kick @$$ she kicks it SO HARD!! And she bakes!! Ya wanna strong female role model? There she is!

You know what would be a subversive take on the damsel in distress? Having a prideful, arrogant, and skilled MAN getting captured, have him constantly fail to escape and/or free himself to the point where he breaks, has a slight meltdown to realize that he can’t do everything himself, but have him also figure out that there's nothing wrong with asking for help from anyone whether it'd be with a task, a quest, or even help dealing with your inner problems.

One thing people tend to forget is that, in classic fairytales (mostly Ye Olde Disney Films) the damsels in distress were literally incapable of rescuing themselves: -Snow White fell for the Evil Queen's "poor old lady" act and was tricked into eating a poisoned apple (This tale was mostly used as an example of the "Don't Talk To Strangers" rule kids were taught.) -Cinderella was locked up in a room where no one could hear her; but in some sense, she managed to play a role in freeing herself: telling the birds and mice to get the dog, Bruno, to chase off the cat Lucifer so they could get the key. -Prince Phillip was actually chained in Maleficent's dungeon, and the 3 Fairies rescued him, and helped him rescue Aurora after she was put under a sleeping spell. -Jasmine was already cool; heck, Aladdin actually needed saved just as much as she did. The only time she was helpless was when Jafar trapped her in a giant hourglass... while Abu was turned into a toy, Carpet unraveled, and Aladdin was 5 seconds from being crushed by a giant cobra, had he not remembered 1 thing Genie had told him. -Belle was trapped with her father in the 3rd act, locked in a cellar with no way out until Chip freed them using Maurice's invention. -Ariel signed a contract that Ursula had rigged; nevertheless, she and Eric pretty much saved each other: she saved him in the beginning, and he saved her in the end. (Better stop there, my inner geek is showing) Basically, those movies didn't teach me that being a 'damsel in distress makes you weak'; no, they were just awesome movies. If there's anything the formula taught me, it's that you can't solve problems on your own and its okay to lean on others for help, and to never lose hope when things look bleak.

You know why I didn't eye roll seeing the princess peach trailer? She succeeds playing all these different and dare I say " diverse" roles on her own merit. She doesn't talk down to men, rather we just get to see her having fun as a beautiful and kind woman. That's another aspect as well, Nintendo isn't afraid of using a woman's sex to her advantage, and I mean sex in it's more aesthetic sense.

1. I am so tired of the "modern audiences" excuse. If our society has taught us anything over the past few years it's that the "modern audience" doesn't exist. Almost every movie made for this audience has either flopped or has done irreparable damage to a brand. There is no modern audience. 2. The girl boss trope has now been revealed for the bad trope it always was. Movies featuring this trope have always been nonsensical to the fact that the Story bends to the character. It's ridiculous. Damsel could have been interesting but its execution exemplifies this. Seriously magical healing slugs? 3. Princess Peach is going to succeed because it will do what western media refuses to do. Be fun and entertaining. It's like today's media refuses to actually be entertaining. It's just veiled propaganda

I hate it when modern day cynics go “Fairytales don’t have strong female leads so they’re bad and outdated” because that’s a red flag that they’ve only watched like two Disney princess movies. A lot of more obscure fairytales have strong female leads and subvert their own formulas. Mary De Morgan was an english writer from 1900’s who explicitly wrote subversive and feminist fairytales and Madame d'Aulnoy (A French noblewoman who is credited with first coining the term “Fairy Tales”) notably wrote some fairytales where the princess saves the prince such as in “Belle-Belle ou Le Chevalier Fortuné” and “Princess Belle-Etoile”. I hate these cynical modern day takes of fairytales because it’s clear there’s no love for the genre, rather a passionate hatred. (Looking at you live action Snow White remake)

And the whole "girl boss" trope _is_ getting pretty moldy by now, come to think of it... At this point it's about as fresh and new (and welcome) as the kind of mold that grows inside your walls...

Damsel biggest problem was the lack of a real characther arc. Had the princess been a spoiled brat or sheltered shy and fragile, her having to literally fight for her life would have been an engaging story. Instead she starts the movie being physically strong, independt, tomboysish and not caring about her appearence so there´s really no change, she starts "badass" (by hollywood standards) and ends in exactly the same place. Arguabily she ends up a villain depending on how many people actually knew about the whole "sacrifices to the dragon" business.

The last damsel in distress I can think of was... Meg from Hercules and even then she was a sassy women who could handle herself, until mythical monsters and gods got involved, but any mortal would be in over their heads at that point.

One sells, the other sails.. into the toilet.

Disney had a strong for-girls market with their Princess brand. Then they bought Star Wars and Marvel to diversify their offerings with boy-brands; and what they do with it? They turned everything into more Princesses. That has to be indicative of actual mental disfunction.

Why would they even need a foreign princess to take the place of one of the king’s daughters? Just use a commoner girl if the blood ritual is enough to fool the dragon, or better yet knock up a few maids and use the bastards as sacrifices. That could also make a great story about a girl who has been raised to be a sacrifice in this ritual but then decides she wants to live and escapes from the dragon. Then they could have her struggling with the guilt that if she does actually escape the dragon will retaliate by attacking her kingdom while coming to terms with how messed up it is she’s been raised to be a sacrifice. Agreed the Peach game looks great, I’m glad they’re trying something a little different with her.

On the subject of the Princess Peach part of this discussion, we had Super Princess Peach, where she was the main player character, whacking enemies with a parasol. I think a few people are currently bashing on it though because of the 'violent mood swing' mechanic that she weaponizes, since she can control those powers to spontaneously combust into fire and stuff. The thing they should probably remember though is that uhm... half the enemies in the game, every boss, and Bowser, are all going through and weaponizing mood swings too. It's a part of the plot because of the artifact Bowser found and used to try and take over in this game. I think people cherry-pick their points trying to cause drama sometimes without showing the big picture since the cherry-picked parts suit the narrative they're trying to weave better.

A "family company" that is loathe to depict loving couples is not a very good family company

Damsel wasn't even a bad premisse. A suspensefull thriller having a dragon as a Horror monster is not bad on paper. But the movie focused more on the message.

It’s been 14 years and nothing has surpassed Tangled yet. I don’t think anything ever will. It was Disney’s 50th animated film and it perfectly encapsulated everything that made Disney great while modernizing it as well. It didn’t make fun of old Disney tropes, it embraced them. While also having a few subversions of its own. It was made with so much love. You can feel it in every frame of animation, every bit of dialogue, every strum of acoustic guitar. Tangled was Disney’s peak to me. Everything about it is absolutely perfect. The romance, the characters, the story. Even the songs are perfect because they are so unique to the film. I can’t imagine them in any other movie. Tangled has an identity. The film knows what it is. A celebration of the past and the present. Nothing will ever come close to it. Disney outdid themselves way too early.

Rachel Zegler claiming that there was big focus on the love story makes me question if she even saw the movie. Prince is on the screen only couple minutes. Main focus was on the Queens jealousy and how Snow White's pure kindness won the dwarves and animals. And regarding the stalking... In the beginning where prince and Snow white meet, it's clearly mutual attraction where they both are flirting. Then the scene is cut and what happened between them after that is left to the audience to decide. Next time the prince is mentioned is when Snow white sings about how she believes in their love ("Someday my prince will come") and when she makes her wish that he would come. So I don't really see the stalking part, unless they think any guy who approaches girl is a creepy stalker.

“These damsels in distress are horrible incapable depictions of women!” Peach -> Arguably the best ability given character in the second ever Mario game (temporary flight), who is a benevolent ruler who needs help when trapped in a cage by a fire breathing lizard. Also when her male counterparts also often get trapped or need rescued in the same video game series. Princess Jasmine -> A woman who repeatedly refused to bow down to her country’s customs of forced marriage, making her arguments and being a vital character in Jafar’s fall with her wit and quick thinking The older Disney princesses -> Typically being kind and capable to make lives for themselves and find contentment wherever they were, longing for something more or having personal goals and seeking it, and finding love along the way. Etc. So many people get hung up on the getting rescued by a man part to not see how often great these female characters are in every other way. How they often teach great lessons of kindness, compassion, striving for goals and not giving up hope, finding strength in your own right, and accepting help to accomplish a common goal or defeat a common enemy.

Princess Peach looks great, I hope it becomes an ongoing franchise just like Lugi's Mansion and Toad's Treasure and Wario Ware. Side characters deserve spinoffs. I really like Daisy, I wish she got more love but Peach is doing some pretty action stuff is great too

I think the reason why Peach gets hit constantly, aside from the fact that she does tend to be a damsel, is because personality-wise, she still very much follows the princess classic formula, even in action. Kindhearted, polite, hyper-feminine, slightly ditzy, etc. Hollywood for some reason finds this type of character unacceptable. The main reason why Peach hasn’t been ruined is because 99% of the time she’s under Nintendo’s thrall, and they won’t let anything happen to her image in the games. Unsurprisingly, the one time Hollywood got their hands on her with the latest movie, they immediately tried to “fix” her, with the interviews revealing that they don’t have any love for the character outside their version.

frozen's marketing campaign was so effective, that nobody noticed how woefully undercooked the story was.

Ordinary farm girl instantly knows how to make makshify armor and how to use a sword to the point she beats a dragon the kingdoms best couldn't. Dragon is shown to be an apex predator, then instantly goes blind, deaf and stupid near the end. Apparently can sniff her exact location in the biggining, then in the end its glitching out.

Want a smart, romantic, and somewhat subversive fairy tale movie where the heroine rescues herself at one point without it feeling too self-conscious and overcompensating for the damsel in distress trope? Just watch Ever After again.

I would totally love a Rosalina or even a Daisy game 😍😍 Now that a think about it, seeing as Disney has abandoned the Princesses franchise, Nintendo has a great opportunity there xD

Surprise surprise. If something's not broke, THEN DON'T BLEEPING FIX IT!!!

Unless they reverse course soon. There is no way I'm ever going back to Disney. I don't think they'll ever reverse course though.

Youre exactly right with the new mold thing. The stopped making gingerbread men with the cookie cutter and started making gingerbread unicorns. Now they keep making unicorn cookies and going "look! Its not a gingerbread man like our previous cookies." But for 15 years... it's been just unicorns. The kids who grew up with Tangled as their first disney movie are old enough to start their own youtube channels and tiktoks complaining about disney being stale... and they are. Make a gingerbread man again, disney. Or a moon cake. Or a basic chocolate chip cookie.

Ironic that on the eve of Peach Showtime, there’s some gaming sites that are trying to punch down on the last game that focused on Peach, Super Princess Peach for the DS, which I thought was a decent spinoff platform, in an attempt to build this game up. They try to say that game was sexist because of the emotion gimmick which doesn’t really make sense considering other characters like the Hulk are fueled by emotions (heck, I’d even argue it’s a common trope among Shonen anime as well) but also that all the characters in the game were affected by emotions, including Bowser who used the emotion powers during the final boss fight.

Wait "Sacrifice 3 daughters every GENERATION" and the same king is still in power? How many generations do they say have passed since he tried to kill the dragon?

I would like the Damsel in distress trope to live on in a “girlboss” way if they really want it. Have the lady try to “do everything herself” but eventually falter and actually becomes the damsel in distress Like “You can do everything yourself but sometimes asking for help won’t hurt” lesson

You're on point that it's just a new mold they are forced to use to avoid criticism. In the end all it does it make the stories limited and thus feel the same.

Don't know if you have already played Princess Peach Showtime, but OMG, it DOES destroy Hollywood's Mary Sues with no effort. Peach never feels OP, nor clumsy, nor the female strong lead with no emotions or femininity like the modern female characters of the entertainment industry. Yet she kick as -ses and shines. She goes for the complete palette of values, she is pyshicaly strong when she has too, but she also shows intelligence, grace, beauty and ability, the whole package. Not like every Mary Sue who´s basically the trope of a male 70´s hero but genderswapped.

So during your segment on Damsel, I thought of a theme that could make it more interesting. While the princess is climbing out of the cave, she has to tear apart her dress to escape. The dress could represent femininity, and how the princess needs to abandon it in favor of masculinity(not actually true, just the message she internalizes at this point). As the movie progresses, she is rewarded for relying on what we consider masculine traits(physical strength, toughness, etc.). This encourages her to use those masuline traits more and more until it shifts into toxic masculinity and change her character for the worse. When she confronts the dragon, it's like looking into a mirror, because the dragon is a physical representation of what she has become. That's when she realizes abandoning femininity wasn't the answer, and that it could help her "win" against the dragon. So she uses both masculine and feminine traits: the former to defend herself and the latter(compassion and vulnerability) to empathize with the dragon. In the end, the dragon doesn't completely let go of its toxic anger. However it does spare the princess and demand a more ethical sacrifice in place of the king's daughters. Basically, a lot of these damsel turned hero stories have their lead abandon their femininity in favor of masculinity to justify giving them agency. But that shouldn't be necesary because there is strength in femininity too. That's the message I'm trying to send with this semi-rewrite.

The issue with modern female characters is that they aren't written particularly well. They are portrayed to be tough, but they didn't earn that toughness. I think of Samus Aran, one of my favorite female characters. The "damsel in distress" trope doesn't work for her, because she was written as a well-trained fighter. No one takes anything away from her being tough because she was written that way but even when her feminine/motherly elements come out in Metroid II and Super Metroid, it serves her character development and adds depth to her. Peach gets a lot of hate for being the "damsel in distress," but one of the coolest things about Super Mario RPG was the fact that she actually joins your party and can contribute to their success. She functions as a white mage and, while she isn't the strongest, she plays her role exceptionally well. And the Super Mario Bros. movie actually added perspective to the "damsel in distress" trope. What if the reason she becomes the "damsel in distress" is because Bowser threatens to destroy her family? She willingly surrenders herself to save her Toads and I don't think there's much that's more regal than that. The same applies to Rosalina who, even being a newer character, is presented as a mother to the Lumas, so when she needs to turn it on to defend them, that "mama bear" trope can actually make her tough when she needs to be. I could go on and on with characters like Wonder Woman and Black Widow, and how their upbringing adds to their tough nature without making them "Mary Sues" or "girl bosses." When their feminine nature comes out, it adds to their character rather than taking away from it. I don't think modern audiences want a "girl boss" -- rather they want a female character well written for the role she plays and fills that role exceptionally well. TL;DR - Modern era female characters aren't well written. Previous era female characters are.

Regarding what you said about a character having to overcome harsh odds, that's why Pomni from The Amazing Digital Circus exploded in popularity. People are desperate for female characters to be allowed to have flaws and vulnerable moments in order to see them earn a victory. It's also tiresome that for women to be "empowered" they must act like manly men of old. Unfortunately, I blame the mentality of "subverting expectations" by reading TVTropes and doing the opposite instead of thinking why a trope works and pondering how to improve it.

When the people at Disney were first conceptualizing Mulan they were thinking about removing the first part of the movie when Mulan happily goes along with the whole matchmaker thing because "it didn't seem too feminist" until someone pointed out that the point of those scenes is to show that Mulan is selfless and will do what is required of her with a smile, and if they removed these scenes then that would have a direct negative impact on the part of the movie when she enlists in the army to protect her dad. This is something the people who wrote "Damsel" should have heeded, as making her truly selfless would make it way easier to empathize with her when she gets betrayed, instead the audience wants to cheer when the prince tosses her into the hole because this means she's gonna shut up about her feminist bullshit.

Of course, she was backstabbed by one guy and then she cuts her hair short, plays sour, independend and feminist. Pushing the same messages again to forbid a woman being feminine motivated and to create more hate and blame to all men for any little thing. Exhausting depressing as hell!

I admit, Damsel as a concept that it’s a ruse to sacrifice a princess to a dragon is great. It could have been decent if it was rewritten well enough. I do agree that the dragon doing it EVERY generation seems way too evil to make the dragon redeemable…

Too late for Disney. Not too late for others.

…wait Asha would’ve had curly hair?? No wonder they gave her braids they’re cowards Also! I really hate watching Rachel’s interviews about LA Snow White. As someone who watched Snow White a million times as a kid after I lost my Sleeping Beauty VHS tape. I like the movie it was good movie. I hated Snow White not because she was a “damsel” but because of her voice. I hated her voice as a kid 😂 I would sit there and sing the songs and love the villain and laugh at Snow being funny. But then hate her speaking because her voice is too high pitched. Literally the only two things wrong with that movie are Snow White being fourteen and her voice being annoying. That’s literally it. So to have Rachel be like-“This movie is trash.” It irks me to NO END

The worst part is that the premise of Damsel could easily make a fantastic movie. Not so much the execution, but the premise of a young lady getting sacrificed and having to escape from a dragon using only her wits. That part could've been fantastic.

I'm a strong independent girl who is also a hopeless romantic. I'd rather have the damsel-in-distress trope than what movies have been given us for years now. These characters are written plainly with one formula when Disney had so much mpre fairytales to explore and adapt. Also it's not a.sign of weakness but strength to ask for help. These characters have become so one dimensional 😥 But I agree the game with Peach looks very promising. It's not her first time and she can show her strength while still being the same character. Also I love Rosalina. I'd totally buy a game dedicated to her 😍

I had an idea for a book with a similar title that focuses on the Damsel in Distress. The story goes that a beautiful princess is kidnapped by a lustful and cruel prince intending to make her his wife by the next full moon, but the princess is in love with her knight and bodyguard who is intent on saving her. However, that will take time, and the princess needs to work out all kinds of ways to protect herself from the unwanted marriage, but she's no warrior so she uses her charm, wit, and kindness.

Actually for Princess Peach, this is her second solo game, in the frist one she actually save Mario and Luigi, the game in my opinion was good, it isn't like crazy good but good enough, there are some small issues, but nothing to bad this Peach game is actually easier, but at least is a good game without politic ideas, like SBI does.

Once everything is subversive, nothing is.

I think it’s too little too late for Disney at this point.

I don’t know if Disney can turn around but I hope they do

I started thinking that for the 100 anniversary Disney should have just...redone from scratch the original plot for snow white with new technology. It would have been fun to see. I totally forgot Wish. I did like Damsel. I didn't give it too much thought. Tho I didn't want the dragon to talk.

I constantly say if Hollywood wanted to see a "strong female character" done right, they should watch/read Yona of the Dawn (Akastuki no Yona). A story about a spoiled princess who's forced to grow up very very quickly when her father is overthrown and she's forced to flee for her life with only her devoted bodyguard for company and protection. And while she's initially so shellshocked, she's essentially dead weight, after coming face to face with the abysmal state of her kingdom because of her pacifist father's feckless caving to invaders to avoid conflict, she feels deeply responsible for their suffering as well as for endangering her guard's life with her helplessness as he takes blow after blow to protect her while she can only stand and watch. So she determines to become a fighter, in defiance of her father's wishes that she never wield a weapon, not only to protect her people, but to pull her own weight so she'll be less of a liability to those who swear to protect her. And while she ultimately is a chosen one of prophecy and must assemble 4 legendary warriors before she can retake her kingdom, she never girlbosses them into subjection. She appeals to them humbly, as though she were merely asking them for a favor, and gives them the option to agree or not. But despite her becoming a fighter risking her lives for others, she's still a scared little girl swallowing her fears to force her courage. She breaks down and cries and gets scared just like anyone else her age would. She's imperfect and sometimes acts out of frustration and has to apologize later. And while she does get stronger, she still knows she's not inhumanly strong enough to beat a man one on one in a fight. She's just doing what she can within her limits, pushing herself to get a little bit stronger every day. It's still my favorite shoujo series of all time, and the fact that the anime only has 1 season is absolutely criminal.

The other issue with the Damsel movie is the fact that she managed to get away from the dragon while still in her wedding dress- Like ALL of the women before her died the moment they got down there but she is just so darn awesome that she could outrun the lava-based fire that was spit at her- Like they could've at least had it where she ended up losing a limb or something while attempting to get away from the dragon and she overcomes the odds & escapes before killing the royal family out of revenge-? (Just spit balling but still lol)

At least the damsel in distress was a more healthy trope and relationship foundation than the current trope.

One thing I’ve often thought about is I think the lack of new IP is part of what’s causing this issue. To bring up your Stanley Cup example, that was a brand new product that catered specifically to a new market. Now Stanley has two separate product lines for different audiences and reaping the rewards from both. That used to be the case with IP in the past that could be specifically catered to different demographics. Hasbro had Masters of the Universe and also had My Little Pony. But now with a lack of new IP that can specifically cater to a particular audience (and budgeted accordingly), now IP holders just want to drag old, existing IP out of retirement and make it somehow appeal to everyone. And you end up with things like Masters of the Universe Revelation which alienated existing fans who wanted to see a He-Man show, not Teela, while not bringing in any new audience.

I’ve realized a lot of historical fantasy or fairytales today are mediocre! They try so hard to modernize characters that are “outdated”, you don’t feel the magic anymore with these movies. If they really want to modernize characters Shrek is a perfect example since the movie was satire

In my experience, it has been said that being a damsel in distress made it sound like that the woman is merely a "item" or "tool" to be used for either the plot or the (usually male) hero to be used. For a time, this was true. But, what I am not afraid to admit is that in trying to avoid the damsel in distress trope by going to the extreme end of the female character scale....well, to surmise: In trying so hard to "fix" the perceived problem, the solution in question IS the problem. If the solution were the hammer, and everything looks like a nail....well, you know the rest. Something people need to remember is that there is more to a damsel in distress than sitting around and waiting for rescue, even Terrible Writing Advice pointed this out; and that series uses satire on the regular.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw star boy concept art! He has that Jack Frost energy that girl love. they didn't even need to make him the explicit love interest too, they could pull a Judy and Nick thing, leave it open to interpretation. It's just such a waste... And I'm so tried of people who don't understand fairy tales trying to write fairy tales! This is me being pedantic, but there really aren't that many old old stories of dragon slaying or saving women from dragons in western history. In terms of dragon slaying stories you have the Volsung Saga where Sigurd kills Fafnir and Beowulf where his nephew kills the dragon. But those are both heroic epics, rather than a fairy tale. In terms of saving a woman from being sacrificed to a monster, all I can think of is Perseus rescuing Andromeda from Cetus which is Mythology, and St George slaying the dragon to rescue a maiden it had captured which is legend. there are probably more of princesses being rescued, but I mean specifically a dragon-like monster. as you also get a lot of stories where the princess/maiden isn't saved by the prince or king, but rewarded with one. Vasalisa the beautiful, the king shows up at the end to reward her for her perseverence. Or she actively aids the hero. The idea of a maiden being sacrificed to a dragon and then saved by a hero probably comes from St George and the Dragon, where there could be inspiration from stories like Perseus and Andromeda. Although, the earlier versions of St George do not have him marry the princess. Which... again, isn't a fairy tale. Nintendo princesses have a good variety, and I really enjoy them. Zelda, is usually pretty powerful, but she also is a princess. Princess Peach is constantly getting captured, but so do other characters. In the Luigi mansion games Mario is captured as well. Luigi has been captured in games... etc. Fire emblem has a TON of princesses and dragons and all that.

It's definitely worth talking about because it's not just affecting mainstream stories, but the stories of the people who are watching them and learning from them. A good way to tell that something is going to just be trying to appeal to a modern audience with some of these problems is if the story is marketed using primarily the tropes it's trying to subvert or the marginalised groups it's trying to represent, because that shows that they have nothing else to talk about in terms of their plot - they're not paying attention to making something its own story with consistency and meaning, that's just a backdrop for their performative diversity. We definitely need more diversity, but too many people think that's where it should end. I love things like Arcane and Spiderverse because the characters are allowed to just be characters in their own right with a good plot that gives the audience a good experience, because they're not just flat, generic, empty moulds of what is deemed most sanitised and politically correct and therefore broadly marketable. Again, diversity and political correctness are good, but marginalised people are people and not just another demographic to profit off of. Sorry this was so long.

I feel like My Little Pony did something better. Cadence was gonna get married to Shining Armor but she gets thrown down a cave by a changeling queen who took her place and is now going to marry her groom. She had to escape the cave and save her groom.

Japanese games: kawaii ☺ Western games: angy 👿

Alot less diversity in modern Disney princesses, they all basically have the same personality. The adorkable personality worked with characters like Rapunzel and Anna since they were both locked up for years with little human contact, but they've been pushing that for too long. There is also the issue of not having proper villains. The last Disney movie that gave the classic feel for me was Princess and the Frog. When I say Classic, I mostly mean memorable. Another problem I have is the songs, they seem too focused on being catchy rather than impacting the story.

The premise reminds me of Ever After: A Cinderella Story. That movie definitely did that trope a lot better without . . . Getting weird.

The Peach Game is from Japan not Hollywood

At this point Disney's going to need a change of management to fix itself. I think the current people running Disney are too stuck in their ways. I like Nintendo's approach as well, Peach can have her adventures while still being Mario's love interest in his adventures.

Even My Little Pony G4 Friendship is Magic and Equestria Girls still had GOOD well written female cast with actual good strong character development and it was made by more competent writer producers and directors then some Hollywood Female lead films today some of which are unqualified writers and directors. Here's a clip show of Equestria Girls: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kJ-HmNSdyqzWnYE.htmlfeature=shared

Politics have killed all my interested in modern western media. It's not about telling a good or interesting story. It's just about pushing politics in the most obnoxious way possible, so you can seem brave.

Goes from a generic farm girl noble into Black Widow in the third act, complete with red haired bob.

if this movie was a person it would say: i am not like the other movies. like the girl, telling everybody she is not like other girls. and in the end they are all a 10.... on the pH-scale.... because they are all basic

A rosalina game would be sick, she already has the most backstory tany Mario character so there's a lot to work with Also agree again with this video. Been saying for awhile that By trying to break stereotypes they've just created new ones and at the cost of actual characters arcs (usually)

Not to sound like a scab, but maybe Disney would still make fairy tale romances if it weren’t for all the BuzzFeed/CinemaSins style “critiques” of their princess movies. This was huge in the early 2010s and has seeped its way into Hollywood mainstream. And no one seems to acknowledge how many of these “critiques” were made by people with only a vague recollection of the movies cuz they don’t watch them more recently with a critical eye before saying these ice cold takes. We’ve surely surpassed that era of nitpicking, but it’s part of why the remakes and now originals go the route that they do.

She was a "girlboss slay queen who don't need no man"

I really like how Fire Emblem uses princesses. You have all the type of princess. Princess who use Magic, Princess who use Physical Weapons like a sword, Princesses who are kind to anyone, Princess who are only kind to her people, Princess who would sacrefice their own life so that the orphan child would have home and meal everyday. My favorite is Princess and later Queen Caeda (Shiida). She is a main character but take support role for her future husband Marth. She is 13 years old princess with pure hearth but extremely charismatic personality being able to recruit even tougher enemies to her and Marth's campaing. (She is infamous by recruiting Narvare by asking if he believes in love. Narvare is killing machine that wouldnt care about emotions that easily). Unlike most Nintendo Princess of the time, Caeda never gets captured and she doesnt use magic but the game never stops to tell us that. She uses Lances and Sword and she ride as Pegasus. She is a Pegasus Knight (Imagine a Valkyrie) where she is fast and dogdes attack very well but doesnt hit that great at first. She can Promote into a Dracoknight a wyvern riding class that boost her attack as well making a well around unit. She can have her signature weapon - Windspear - a lance that deals more damage if enemis rides a Horse or uses Heavy Armor. (When she gets that weapon, the high def enemies are either calvary or Heavy Armor unit). Making very good unit to use but she doesnt even become the powerful unit as her future husband Marth will be a better unit and Healers and Dragons will be important against the final boss. (Healers due to her utility.) The ends with Prince Marth ending the war with the help of his allies and he even becomes King and Marries Caeda and they likely had kids later since Princess Emmeryin, Prince Chrom, Princess Lissa, Princess Lucina and Prince Owain are descendants of King Marth and Queen Caeda. You see this relationship blossoming but also them working on their goals. Caeda didnt follow Marth because she had a crush on him, she did it to help others. Also Ellisian Pegasus Knights even a motto of "Face of an Angel and the Fury of a demon." that often use on battle. Which eludes that the tales of Caeda didnt just made Caeda as "Marth's wife" and people know her adventures.

i nregards to the seeming plot hole of the daughters of the Kingdom. it's heavily implied that the Offer a *ton* of gold and tell the kings and Queens straight up what's going to happen. In this way no one comes asking questions cause both parties are complicit. As well it's implied they target poor kingdoms that desperately need the money to survive and that makes the offer all the harder to refuse.

As someone who saw damsel with some women who really just put it on and I sat with them with literally no context, I thought it was fine, and by that I mean I agree with you about them focusing so much on the message, but something that has me personally confused is how the queen is such a villain, like not only is the king barely a character or the villain or even someone who’s against or with the queen, like why tf is she so intent on killing her over a lie? What does she have in this race? And if that doesn’t make sense, again, the king who’s supposed to be in charge barely does anything, I swear he was more a message about being a prop than an actual prop bc at least a prop is used for something, he was basically in the background the whole movie, but yea everything else is honestly better than I expected considering it was a Netflix original, so when you say that it falls flat I’m just like “yep, very expected”

the funniest thing is a game by the name of Haunting ground does the damsel saves herself trope way better than the movie ever did and that game came out nearly 20 years ago.

Nintendo also handled botw/totk zelda really well. She isnt just a girl boss, shes very geeky and just has interests outside of her royal duty but still knows she has to do them and steps up to assist link in her own ways twice. As someone who's given up turning my hobby into my career for something that will help me stay financially afloat i can really relate to her.

this sounds like the cycle of tropes: There is a trope that works, many pepole make copycats to the point it becomes oversaturated. Someone makes a clever dissection and subversion of the trope, so pepole make copies of that as well to the point that it becomes oversaturated. Repeat

Funny thing about with Peach, there's been more and more later games where Peach isn't being kidnapped but becomes another player, another hero in helping to rescue whatever kingdom Mario and the crew go visit. Heck even when she was a damsels, she tried what she could to help and assist Mario (or luigi) in whatever means possible if she can't exactly escape from Bowser or his many minions guarding the castle. Heck, the biggest highlight of her helping Mario alot is within Paper Mario, with the help of twink, a tiny wishing star, the 2 of them would try to sneak every now and again to find what little info they can of not only hearing Mario slowly getting the other Elder Stars but getting info on whatever area to find the next Elder Star, no matter how many times she gets found and place back into her room. As for the older Disney Films I wouldn't even try to call the majority of the princesses a "damsel" but rather a damsels when we get to that very scenario where they need to be rescued. Snow White never saw herself as a Damsel and just had a very happy look on many things, a heart so pure she could barely harm a fly or even step on an ant. Jasmine cared for her kingdom and her father but wasn't exactly fond of not being allowed to step beyond the palace walls. Belle chose to stay behind and take her Father's place of being a prisoner of the Beast's castle so he can be free. At one point she tried to escape, but then after the Beast rescuing her from wild wolves, she could've continued to flee but choose to go help and mend the Beast's wounds.

At this point, coming out with a fairytale adaptation that just is a fairytale (with all that implies) would be much more of a subversive thing to do than anything that has come out in the last twenty-five years.

I preferred Disney’s last 2d animated princess Tiana. She was a lot more interesting than rapunzel ngl. I didn’t really like how they gave rapunzel a quirky voice in a whatever timeline she’s in.

This is why I really like Princess Peach's character. She was never forced or even became a "girl boss", she had her own characteristics, which made her the best out of other medias. Also, Disney should never be afraid of love stories. If they make the same "girl boss" character every single day, then their characters would be seen very unlikable by the audience, and their box office would be so wack like always. If they want to make good movies, then listen to the fans! 👍

"This movie subverts the damsel in distress trope" Dude, Shrek came out over two decades ago.

the whole trope of female warrior was popularized by Robert E. Howard, a man. Because being a badass warrior that kicks ass is not exactly a common fantasy that most women have when reading or writting fiction.

Mangas, Novels, and old Folk Tales done this idea before and they sucked at it, they can't help but preach parasitical ideas to even do a story right, and it's getting to ahead, and Super Princess Peach was a pretty fun game, a Peach turn of a Mario Platformer, 'sides, it's easy to name things that used emotional turmoil to progress the plot

The Once Upon a Time tv show is the best Snow White tale ever told becouse it did not take away anythang but simply added to it. She was a strong woman that believed in love and hope and loved her man.

ugh its too late they made a deal with the devil and now they show burn .

For many of them it's already too late. In both film and game industries

Why would you think "forcing a new one" is some kind of unintended consequence? That was always the intended goal. To shape your brain by shaping your media. I wonder if there's some sort of factor that correlates directly with the increasingly dense saturation of heavy-handed narratives.

Conan the Barbarian stories from the 30s had lots of great strong female characters like Belit and Valeria but they had upbringings that made it clear that they were warriors.

The peach game is really cute! It's a good platform game for beginners. Not too difficult, not complicated gameplay, but really freshenend up by the different kinds of theater roles she has to play. Everything looks like a theater stage, it is just so cute! My children love it and I have played it too. I don't know about hollywood and movies. It really depends: as long as being a feminine woman is a nogo, no such character type will be written in positive light. The fish smells from the head, it really depends on what the bosses want from the production

I loved damsel in distress, it’s about a woman who ended up actually wanting the Man unlike other films where a woman “doesn’t need no man” she was a feminine figure who was forced to try and survive and she did just that. She was an actual Damsel who used her smarts and won. This movie did perfectly what other movies couldn’t which was make a good female protagonist

let us remember Showtime outsold both Dragon's Dogma 2 and Rise of the Ronin week one in Japan

Well said.

Something I liked about the Mario Movie is that when Luigi got captured instead of Peach, it made sense for the plot and didn't feel forced. More importantly, Peach is still nice. Just because she's capable doesn't mean she needs to be snarky. Heck, she's even encouraging during the obstacle course montage. Yeah her super girly personality did get toned down a lot, but it could have been much worse

I like how you used the new peach game as an example on what to do

Thank you 😊

Honestly, the biggest problem I have with the damsel in distress trope isn't "muh sexism" or "le objectification", but rather the fact that this trope is such an amazing excuse for writing banter between the damsel and the villain and characterizing both of them, and I can't think of an instant where writers took advantage of that.

The only Disney movies that need remakes are the ones that underperformed at their original showing. Namely Atlantis and Treasure Planet. I’m not too interested in the Princess Peach game, but it does look fun and charming. Should be a good gateway to action RPGs for younger audiences, particularly little girls.

What a good female character looks like 1998 Mulan. What bad female characters look like Mary sue I mean “Mulan” 2020. (God that remake was a disappointment)