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@udoeiblmaier25 Жыл бұрын
I still think 491 is a chonker.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
You telling me that in person is still one of my highlight moments from this summer, lol.
@udoeiblmaier25 Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 Nice that I left an impression. By the way I was the vacation of my live 8000 miles through the grater US south west. (some stops: Vegas, Grand Canyon, Denver, Houston, Phoenix, LA, Frisco, Redwoods, Sacramento , back to Vegas)
@carebloodlaevathein6732 Жыл бұрын
Amen on that, brother~ I mean, just look at her~ These hips don't lie~
@joenewstead4848 Жыл бұрын
So do you guys plan on expanding operational trackage in the future instead of your circle piece of operating track?
@superwaygames Жыл бұрын
491 is a hecken chonker
@vega1287 Жыл бұрын
when you talked about the center of mass i was waiting for a joke on 346 going for belly scratches.
@west_side_9 Жыл бұрын
Drunken Belly Scratches!
@xenowreborn Жыл бұрын
I never knew 491 was WIDER THAN A BIG BOY (That's...actually quite shocking) and yet only as tall as the Narrow Gauge, it does give 491 quite the Striking Silhouette. "Quite an Impressive Locomotive" indeed
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
I can think of a reason for the Big Boy and other Mallet-articulated locomotives (mostly not actually true Mallet) to be narrower than you might expect for a standard gauge locomotive: The Mallet articulation means that the long boiler sticks out over the side of the front drivers on a curve. This was especially prominent on a x-8-8-x locomotive like the Big Boy. Actually, I'm not sure if you even could take a Big Boy on some of the eastern railroads -- it might hit objects on the outsides of curves. Maybe this is why the heavy haulers of the eastern railroads tended to be x-6-6-x or have rather small driving wheels (like the 2 Triplex types, 2-8-8-8-x); the Norfolk and Western Y6-series seems to be a partial exception (maybe they had better trackside clearances?).
@steffenrosmus9177 Жыл бұрын
Well the k37s were converted from standard gauge inside frame Consolidations to outside frame Mikados in the 1930ies
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
@@steffenrosmus9177 Sort of, but not really -- they reused boilers, tenders, and some other parts from some Class 19/C-41 2-8-0 locomotives, but they had to make an awful lot of parts completely new, so much that this doesn't really count as a conversion.
@Squid1562 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been at the D&S on vacation recently, and walking through the museum, my dad asked me the exact same question. It’s one of those things where you don’t realize how confusing outside frame locomotives look to those who aren’t used to them
@GP30_Foamer Жыл бұрын
When I was a little kid going to the Cumbres & Toltec, I always thought that the counterweights were some weird special wheel design. Kinda funny looking back on it.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Same.
@viperz3r016 Жыл бұрын
I can agree with this XD
@spagelsmegal Жыл бұрын
Fun fact when the d&rgw was running the k-28s up to sliverton for the first time they kept scraping the cylinders against the rock walls along the line because the loading gauge was that much wider compared to the c-19s etc
@peregrina7701 Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Appreciate the review of "why the hell did they hide the wheels" which actually makes a lot of sense. Watching 491's (relatively) huge boiler coming around the curve and looking at how big the gauge isn't really drove home the point. Thanks again 😊
@Crlarl Жыл бұрын
I figured it was something to do with sticking bigger bits onto a small track but I had no clue about the centre of mass and springs. Great video!
@bjrnfrederiksson2505 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely amazing knowledge and I wondered myself where the wheels where on D&RGW 491 and compared to 346 and 20 as they're older the design changed to improve and better the locomotive. Keep launching these great videos Mark H.
@NCPilot Жыл бұрын
That was very informative. As someone who loves narrow gauge railroading, thank you for taking the time to make these videos!
@madduckuk Жыл бұрын
Hi Hyce! So interesting to see how you started with inside frames but ended up with outside, the opposite of how it happened on a restricted loading gauge railway like over here in the UK (see Kirtly 156 or Churchward 3700 for surviving examples). At one point almost EVERYTHING was outside frames.
@sambrown6426 Жыл бұрын
That's quite fascinating.
@kimpatz2189 Жыл бұрын
Outside frames on early locomotives in europe because the designers at that time are afraid of the center of mass going higher. So much so that they even have those ridiculous designs where the axles punches right through the boiler for the ultimate under slung boiler design. Another contributing factor as to why they want the boiler so low in the first place is because the entire running gear is in between the frames. They are forced to raise the boiler for more clearance. As to why the running gear is in between the frame, the designers are afraid of the crank axle snapping in half due to the moment distance between the applied force. Basically, keep the pistons closer together to keep the force concentrated. It must be done this because the metallurgy of the crank axle is still catching up. This was a time were they want more strength on the material but the processes on making that material is long ways away.
@rgsrrofnc Жыл бұрын
Nice job Mark! It's also interesting to note that since Schenectady did their locomotives differently (they built the "Sport Model" K-28s) they put the counterweights on the drivers to counteract the side rods. So the number 1, 2 and 4 axles had small cranks and the number 3 had the counterbalance for the main rod. Bonus points - what locomotive was called a more common name of a "coot" and why? :-)
@onnelli Жыл бұрын
491 absolutely reminds me of 90s GT cars, or RWB 911s, simply because it's just so darn wide, but looks good with it's width
@munsonhannover5991 Жыл бұрын
The K37 is a lowrider in all reality. It is a channeled and lowered standard gauge locomotive.
@BeefTechnology Жыл бұрын
How does the cross compound air compressor work? What I mean by that is how does the steam go in on the right side of the pistons at the right time, because I can't see any sort of valve gear controlling it.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
There's a controller that lives on top of the head that makes that happen. How it works I'm not sure myself!
@BeefTechnology Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 Stare at it until you understand it.
@10C45E Жыл бұрын
I love outside framed locomotives, I think the counterweights look really interesting and cool
@randomsnek Жыл бұрын
346 looks sad but she will soon shine!
@brintjeff5 ай бұрын
On the 2 foot guage Sandy River & Rangley Lakes railroad (Maine) Baldwin built a 2-4-4T no. 9 with inside frames which was reported to have a tendency to wobble down the track. The next order to Baldwin was for the same size and design except the no. 10 was outside frame and was one of the sweetest runners they had. Reportedly one engineer routinely ran no. 10 at 60mph on 2 ft guage.
@ZergSmasher Жыл бұрын
Wow, core memory unlocked, because I remember wondering about this exact thing when I rode the Durango & Silverton back in 1993 (I was 6 at the time). Nice to finally have that explained, so thanks!
@ldd55uks8 ай бұрын
I was considering changing the design of my 10 1/4" gauge 0-4-0 steam powered Locomotive to 7 1/4" gauge ,to reduce the weight of my portable railroad panels as they are dual gauge. Watching your video has inspired to do this conversion by moving the wheel set inside and making counter weights to connect the motion on the outside,therefore not having to move the cylinder set up. Cheers 🍻
@IndianaNorthWestern Жыл бұрын
Theoretically, we c o u l d be a silly, dubious little character, and put the wheels on the outside and run 491 on the mainline.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
It'd be broad gauge.
@Idaho-Cowboy Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 So the Russian mainline?
@legdig Жыл бұрын
Now you're got me wondering WHY the great western did this with inside cylinder locomotives with high mounted boilers on a tiny loading gauge. This feels like a "Midland axle boxes" shop pride sorta thing.
@caroleast96365 ай бұрын
When your interest in railways is very much the narrow gauge, then the inside frames are just normal and obvious but a great explanation ✔️
@Mr.Railfan Жыл бұрын
Love the videos, keep up the great work!
@WasatchWind Жыл бұрын
4:30 whaaa... No... That can't be right.... My mind cannot process that peaches is wider than the big boy xD
@Coaster_F59PHIАй бұрын
0:38 i always knew that outside framed locos had their actual wheels more inward, but i never knew the wheels were placed that _F A R_ inward!
@bagok701 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for showing where the 🚂🛞 choo choo wheels are, I had a model train as a kid and could never find ones that looked like mine in movies. The 𐄷⚖center of mass factors within the decision process of choosing to go with inside wheels was a good nugget of insight.
@Vile-Flesh Жыл бұрын
This video randomly popped up in my suggested feed. I have always wondered about the more massive outside framed engines and this video finally enlightened me out of the blue.
@carebloodlaevathein6732 Жыл бұрын
4:44 Well, DUH~ It's the BIG Boy, after all. Not the WIDE Boy. XDD
@The_Smith Жыл бұрын
Great explanation Hyce, I often wonder why a narrow gauge engine don't fall over. . .
@JonsGarage89 Жыл бұрын
Finally, a concrete answer as to WHY. Side note, it looks like 346's smokebox would fit inside 491s firebox.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
It would, if you took the backhead off... lol
@JonsGarage89 Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 Jesus, really puts 491s size in perspective.
@pancakefish Жыл бұрын
these are the things they need to be teaching us in school XD thank you so much Hyce!
@TheMetGuy Жыл бұрын
Great video Hyce
@SheffieldNo14Productions Жыл бұрын
I’m learning an incredible amount of things from your channel, thank you for your hard work Hyce :D
@mikeytrains1 Жыл бұрын
“where are the wheels?” sorry i ate them
@burnerheinz Жыл бұрын
Were they tasty?
@Johndoe-jd Жыл бұрын
@@burnerheinz I have had them before, they were good and made well in a k-37 kitchen but they were wheel-y hard to swallow.
@mikeytrains1 Жыл бұрын
@@burnerheinz iron’s good for the body, steel is good for the soul
@peregrina7701 Жыл бұрын
L I M E S with those!!
@ronnronn55 Жыл бұрын
You give really clear explanations and your enthusiasm for the topic shines through. Thanks for sharing your insights. Ronn
@akaBoG Жыл бұрын
Great video Hyce!
@BrooksMoses Жыл бұрын
Your comment about the frame "holding the locomotive together" reminded me of something I learned recently that I'd be interested in a video about: According to what I read, that's only partly true -- because the boiler expands in length when it gets hot, the boiler can only be attached to the frame at one place (the cylinder saddle), and the firebox and cab just rest on the back of the frame on sliders. Is that correct? I'd be really interested if you could talk about that more, and show how much it moves and how the parts work. Also, I quite appreciated that you made this video interesting for those of us who already knew where the wheels were, too! I knew where they were, but I didn't really know why (even though I thought I did).
@nicknorton5714 Жыл бұрын
That is very correct, the PRR had problems with their Duplex engines with boilers expanding more than the frame. A large locomotive boiler could expand upwards of an inch after it was really hot.
@caroleast96365 ай бұрын
All steam locomotives have to cope with the expansion of the boiler when it’s hot. The frames and running gear will expand as well but only tiny amounts compared to the boiler. The usual way of allowing for this is to fix the boiler at the smokebox end and allow the firebox to move. Of course, the weight of the boiler has to be carried but those supports are designed to allow it to slide.
@jaredpero6237 Жыл бұрын
Another great video! Thanks for showing these differences to us!
@tableseven8133 Жыл бұрын
I often thought that design was because the engine was made for the normal wider track, but now it is being used on a narrow track so it got modified to make it fit having the drive wheel on the inside of the frame to make it work..
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
nope.
@vertigo300 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the clear up on the wheels, Hyce!
@VestedUTuber Жыл бұрын
My two Henschel HF110Cs (both my LGB/Aster Frank S. and my LGB/Marklin RuBB 99 4652) are outside frame, but in their case it's because the HF110C was originally built for military field railway use so the frame acts as armor for the wheels. The boiler on those sits completely above the footplate, albeit _exactly_ on it with no spacing. There's a lot of different reasons for doing an outside-frame locomotive, it's just one of those design quirks that shows up from time to time everywhere. I think there might be some European rod-driven diesel-hydraulic switchers that are also outside-frame, as well as the RhB's Ge 6/6 I Crocodile.
@billbeverly2864 Жыл бұрын
I was told one time that the counterweights were originally hallow and they would fill them with lead to match the weight of the side rod. Have you heard of this or are they solid?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
That's what I've always heard as well. Not honestly sure.
@patricksheary2219 Жыл бұрын
Hi Mark many thanks for your great explanation of outside frames. I really do like the 491. Such impressive presence and when steamed up amazing sounds. Famous 20 is a close second! Thanks again Mark, I’m always learning something new from you professor. Cheers.
@pforce9 Жыл бұрын
The biggest secret of all time is how do you put water into a pressurized boiler. After searching for a week, I found out about the steam ejector (injector) whatever. Why does no one talk about this? Can you show me one? Can you make one work so that I can see it? thanks, Hyce!
@EviLincoln Жыл бұрын
Quite the informative video! Were there ever any standard gauge outside frame locomotives that you know of?
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
They were fairly popular in the UK, where clearances were and still are REALLY narrow (can't even fit a standard shipping container). Edit: The situation there produces a result that is related, but not the same: The British locomotives I am thinking of had the wheels AND the cylinders inside. More modern UK locomotives had a more conventional design, but even so, you still can't fit a standard shipping container on much of the UK rail network.
@PokoleizKuleckim Жыл бұрын
Accurately explained. Many thanks for sharing. Liked, subscribed!
@madalheidis Жыл бұрын
I had thought outside frames would also be a bit easier to lubricate, what with all the lubrication spots for the axles being kept outside, which would have been a concern before the advent of automatic lubrication. On top of that, if the axleboxes are on the outside, any other attention to them doesn't require getting around or through the wheels. But that's just what I'd expect, I'm a tram gal who finds HAVING TO FEED THE AXLES IN THE SIDES weird and wants to find other ways to make it not as annoying to maintain things.
@michaelbujaki2462 Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't have expected a narrow gauge locomotive to be wider than Big Boy.
@Tmstrains Жыл бұрын
Love watching the video. Crazy to think that the 491 was wider than a big boy
@rrowan327 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Prof Hyce, I learned a lot from this video. I really want to know more about the 346. What other narrow gauge engines does the museum have?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
We've got a lot! 491, 346, and 20 are the three that operate, steam-wise. We also have the DL&G 191, D&RGW 318 on display that we own, then RGS 74, westside 12 and westside 14 on display owned by others that are all steam.
@katerinakittycat3849 Жыл бұрын
So THATS why outside frame locomotives were built that way. They look very odd but are very very powerful
@SouthernKansasRailfan Жыл бұрын
Happy to say I'll be out at CRM during the Narrow Gauge Convention!
@sippinoncyanide8219 Жыл бұрын
so my thought always was that if you replace the counter weights on the outside with the actual wheels, it would fit standard gauge. and wheels on the inside narrow gauge
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Nope. It's wider.
@Rararawr Жыл бұрын
I find it so absurd that the locomotive hangs over each side of the rail more than the gauge of the railroad its on. It just seems like something that would never be stable, but 491 remains not upside down at the bottom of a cliff
@stevemellin5806 Жыл бұрын
Great information thank you Have a great weekend
@GLENBR0 Жыл бұрын
my favorite outside frame locomotive besides the rio grande Ks are the south african railways ng15s which were 2ft narrow guage
@Sunglobe6029 Жыл бұрын
Neat video, there's a few things in here that I didn't know. I'm in NSW Australia, we don't have many outside frame locos and the ones we do have come from other states.
@kellingc Жыл бұрын
Cool info - I love your workshops like this.
@sebastianschroeder6459 Жыл бұрын
491 is still my favorite narrow gauge engine.
@The_Canadian_Railfan Жыл бұрын
Imma say, outside frame supremacy
@windusbindo6 ай бұрын
OH LAWD HE COMIN
@BPJJohn Жыл бұрын
If you want to see wobbly check out of the South African Steam Locomotives that look like they shouldn't be on such a narrow gauge.
@jeremylando40 Жыл бұрын
We got you reacting to 2102 I would love to see your thoughts on Pennsylvanias narrow gage the East Broad Top
@rossbryan6102 Жыл бұрын
MANY YEARS AGO , I RODE THE GEORGETOWN LOOP RR THAT HAD A LOCOMOTIVE OF THIS TYPE! WAS IT THE 491 ?? KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!! 👍👍
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
The loop has had the 40, 44, and 111, that are all outside frame 2-8-0's for a number of years. Likely one of those. :)
@rossbryan6102 Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 I WAS RATHER CURIOUS ABOUT THIS TYPE AND WONDERED IF THEY WERE BUILT NEW AS SUCH OR WERE OLDER STANDARD GUAGE SMALLER LOCOMOTIVES REBILT AND DOWNSIZED TO MAKE BIGGER NARROW GUAGE POWER! I SEED TO WORK FOR SANTA FE AND BECAME QUITE INTERESTED IN THEIR STEAM POWER MAITENENCE AND REBUILDS! THEY DID A LOT OF STUFF EXCHANGING BOILERS BETWEEN DIFFERENT CLASSES TO REBUILD OLDER LOCOMOTIVES INTO YARD SWITCHERS AND LOCAL TRAIN POWER! THE AT&SF 769 NOW RESIDING AT MADRID NEW MEXICO IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN KITBASH OF THAT SORT!!
@TrainGuy152 Жыл бұрын
In addition to spring rigging, having an outside frame also probably helps the boiler clear the cylinders/saddle.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
well, see, it physically has to do that no matter what and they don't move, lol
@TrainGuy152 Жыл бұрын
Yes, but with bigger cylinders than would otherwise fit
@therailfanman2078Ай бұрын
At some point when i have money, i plan to get an HOn3 K-clasz Mikado
@mikefilipkowski5445 Жыл бұрын
RGS 20 is one of older 4-6-0 on 3 ft, and is more modernized while ET&WNC 12 hasnt been changed since it left the ET&WNC
@catpoezenpootje7868 Жыл бұрын
Pfff, in Austria there are narrow gauge engines with have the driving wheels on an inside frame, and the trailing wheel in an outside frame. Yes the frame becomes wider to fit the firebox. Maybe weird but it works.
@Johndoe-jd Жыл бұрын
Hyce in one of your professor videos you talked about the math and formula on how much a engine is rated for. Is there a formula on how fast a locomotive can theoretically go?
@bluescrew3124 Жыл бұрын
Mathhhhhhhhh
@ivovanzon164 Жыл бұрын
I guess there is, and it differs based on valve type. Your theoretical max speed is limited by the number of movements your cylinder can make while still being effective. That gives a max rpm, which in combination with wheel circumference gives the maximum speed
@matthewcox7985 Жыл бұрын
491 almost looks like a monorail on that narrow gauge track!
@slanderedstone Жыл бұрын
Mmmm counterweights
@ratecoudo Жыл бұрын
Make a video about how the tender is connected to the steam locomotive I have never seen that very closely
@bluescrew3124 Жыл бұрын
Holy cow, can’t believe 491 is wider than the big boy
@BandanRRChannel Жыл бұрын
I knew about the counterweights on the outside, but I was wondering if there would be counterweights on the wheels inside. One potential future question: You talked about why the K-class locomotives (and other locomotives) had outside frames, clearance and center of gravity. Could you talk about some of the other advantages or disadvantages of outside vs inside frame? I've heard from the Georgetown Loop shop foreman that outside frame is a lot easier to inspect from below since the frames are further apart.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
There certainly are a lot of plusses and minuses; that'd make for a good video. :)
@Narrowgaugefilms Жыл бұрын
Another thing is that with the springs and bearings inside the wheels, they are much closer together, so the center of mass of the engine has more leverage on them when it tries to swing from side to side: this makes the locomotive more prone to rocking back and forth. Putting these outside the wheels gives a more stable ride and can prevent the thing from tipping over. On engines with inside valve gear (like Stephenson), having the gear and the frames inside the wheels made this space awfully crowded, especially up in Maine where the wheels were sometimes less than two feet back to back!
@AnonOmis1000 Жыл бұрын
So, probably a dumb question, but why do a lot Colorado railroads have Rio Grande in their name? Is it a town in Colorado? Because unless I'm mistaken, rhe river Rio Grande is on the border between Texas and Mexico, nowhere near Colorodo.
@akaBoG Жыл бұрын
When I started working at the Museum one of the most confusing things to me was all the railroads with Rio Grande in the name. Denver & Rio Grande became the Denver & Rio Grande Western after being reorganized, Rio Grande Southern was Otto Perry's San Juan route. than San Luis and Rio Grande....maybe it has to do with the river?
@rgsrrofnc Жыл бұрын
Well... for context, the Rio Grande river's headwaters are in south central Colorado. The Rio Grande was part of General Palmer's original dream to reach Mexico from Denver. A little history... As the D&RG was building south out of Denver, when they got to the Arkansas River, the Santa Fe (AT&SF) had already built north over Raton Pass and was building up the Arkansas River (Royal Gorge) to tap the rich mines around Leadville. The D&RG took this as an affront to their territory and the Royal Gorge War broke out where they were shooting at each other. It was settled in the courts that the Santa Fe can have the Raton Pass (which meant the D&RG grading over the pass had to be abandoned) but the D&RG gets the Royal Gorge route which pushed the D&RG to become a Colorado mountain railroad. The railroad did eventually reach Santa Fe from Antonito. And they reached the Rio Grande river in Alamosa! From Utah, another railroad (the Rio Grande Western) was also building into the mountains. Eventually the Denver and Rio Grande and the Rio Grande Western merged and formed the Denver and Rio Grande Western. The Rio Grande Southern was formed by Otto Mears and it actually formed a bridge between the Denver and Rio Grande's Ouray Branch and Durango (on the Silverton Branch) which is possibly how it got the Rio Grande in it's name although it's nowhere near the river of that name. About this same time of the D&RGW merger, they started to standard gauge their mainline from Denver to Ogden which was on the UPRR. The Silver Crash of 1893 caused many mines to close and so there was little need to change over the narrow gauge. EXCEPT later 1905, the Farmington branch was built from Durango as standard gauge (on a narrow gauge railroad!) That tracks was built into the oil fields and was a political ploy to keep the Santa Fe from building into the same area. There was even plans to regrade and rebuild the Cumbres Pass and relay it all as Standard Gauge. Of course it was all a rouge and the tracks were narrow gauged and the railroad was kept busy hauling pipes to the oil fields and oil out in tank cars. This did mean the loads had to be transferred in Alamosa. There was also the Monarch Branch to the CF&I limestone mine (to make steel in Pueblo) which was narrow gauge and those car loads were transferred to standard gauge using a big device they called the barrel where they would roll the high side gondolas over and dump into a standard gauge car below. This was done in Salida. Eventually as the railroad removed all the narrow gauge railroads out of Salida (Marshall Pass especially) the Monarch Branch was standard gauged and ran for a brief while before being abandoned and scrapped. The name "Rio Grande" for the railroad itself most likely came about as a "nickname" for the railroad (also called "the Grande") after the "toilet seat" Moffat Pass logo was replaced with the speed lettering Rio Grande on the locomotives and cabooses. And as for the Moffat tunnel and how it became part of the Rio Grande is another story for another time. I hope this helps. And if I got something wrong, let me know. :-) I did a lot of Colorado railroad history in college in Durango but that was a LONG time ago when the SP, D&RGW and UP were separate still.
@AnonOmis1000 Жыл бұрын
@RGS Rob Herronen aka Bigfoot it did a bit, though with how my brain works I'd needs a map showing these locations and routes for me to truly understand.
@joethanks3745 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting videos thanks for your knowledge
@KPen3750 Жыл бұрын
I have always thought it was more that if you needed to convert one of these to standard gauge, simply move the wheels to the outside. Not sure that would actually work given the other components and it might be wider than standard gauge, but I wonder if the D&RG ever thought of it
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
I could have sworn to having read somewhere about somebody doing the opposite -- rebuilt a standard gauge steam locomotive to an outside-frame narrow gauge locomotive.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
Courtesy of Nick Norton in a different comments subthread: Boilers, tenders, and some other parts from D&RGW standard gauge Class 19/C-41 were used to build new D&RGW class K-37 locomotives.
@flippydafox33134 ай бұрын
WIDER THAN THE BIG BOY
@EdwinsTrains Жыл бұрын
Do you ever think that the museum will put the 3-foot engines on display back in service eventually?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Not likely.
@notarealname6347 Жыл бұрын
Hey, I just thought of this while watching. As a video request, would you show us how you de-winterize a steam locomotive or is the one fireup video just that? Also, why not just put counterweights on the wheels as well help with the balance? I understand the outside counterweights are, as you said, more for control the center of mass, which in turn improves the center of gravity, but wouldn’t having them on the wheels as well help with the weight balancing?
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
He mentioned in the video where some builders did that.
@CoryAY82383 Жыл бұрын
491 is wider than big boy? Literally mind blown and by how much?
@alexwallace1707 Жыл бұрын
Hey @Hyce I am currently a college student studying secondary education. I am quickly realizing that teaching in Arizona is definitely not for me. I’ve always loved trains and I love working on cars. I want to get into train maintenance at BNSF like you did. Is there anything I need to know about the job? Do I need a degree in something? Or do I just wait until a position is open in my area and just go for it?
@brenthinshaw8391 Жыл бұрын
Since editor hyce answered my question about stability heading down the rails I'll ask a different one; do you know if anyone built an outside frame standard gauge loco?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
I am not aware of any, but I wouldn't be surprised if one does exist.
@drewbarker8504 Жыл бұрын
It really is a forward-thinking design in many respects, and has bled over into other areas of motive power. 346 looks minuscule behind 491. Especially with everything removed.
@michaelhayes1678 Жыл бұрын
Loved it!
@itowmyhome797 Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@robertbalazslorincz8218 Жыл бұрын
Ah yes, OUTSIDEFRA-
@ayayaybamba3445 Жыл бұрын
Were outside frames ever used for standard gauge locomotives? I can imagine just how wide those would be and how much bigger you could make the boiler.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Not that I've heard of, but I wouldn't be surprised if one existed. That'd be a loading gauge nightmare.
@ivovanzon164 Жыл бұрын
There were a few crazy ones like the Saxon XV HTV with mixed inside and outside frames. Regular ones were (quickly phased out due to being outdated in 1925) de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayerische_B_IX de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayerische_C_III
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
I could have sworn some weird UK locomotives had both outside frames and inside cylinders, but now I can't find a picture.
@fritz46 Жыл бұрын
One example is the famous "City of Truro". Afaik the Great Western Railway also built some inside frames locomotives for broad gauge meant to be converted to standard gauge outside frame locomotives during the gauge conversion phase.
@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын
@@fritz46 Thanks -- and Google even finds the Wikipedia article on this and other sources of pictures of this locomotive. But the "City" class was built new this way years after the conversion was finished. The Wikipedia article on locomotives of the Great Western claims that some locomotives were converted, and the article on GWR class 388 even lists some as being converted from standard gauge to broad gauge and back to standard gauge, but these don't show pictures of converted locomotives.
@Hitperson Жыл бұрын
I'd wondered if it was to allow some parts sharing between standard and narrow gauge locomotives with manufacturing.
@YurtFerguson Жыл бұрын
Really kind of makes me wonder why they never tried to do this on standard gauge locomotives, if anything I think it would be a way for them to try and make something even more massive than even the big boy. Who knows, maybe because steam started declining just when the supersized locomotives were hitting their stride we never got to see what the next level would have been.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Loading gauge, lol. When the railroad is designed to deal with a certain max width...
@RRBuilder611 Жыл бұрын
based on a quick google search, a k-37 (10.4ft) is not wider than the Big Boy (11ft), but thats still impressive on 491's part lol
@brianmorroni3566 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for these awesome detailed videos. I met you briefly at the East Broad Top on the 18th. Was wondering if you will be doing a video about your trip there?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Oh plenty of video to come from EBT. They just take a minute to put together. :)
@Dallen9 Жыл бұрын
Well.... The true story was Baldwin designed Outside frame locomotives for service and Maintenance men. One of the few times that the Mechanic's bitched and the Manufacturer listened. To try and sell it cause Outside framed locomotives were originally only available for narrow gauged railroads(the Germans and Swiss later would make a few for standard gauge), they advertised that you could buy an outside framed Locomotive today and later convert it to Standard gauge engine when you could upgrade the line tomorrow(this has been only known to happen a few times once on the original owner of a locomotive and many times for secondhand owners). However due to happy Mechanics and service men Outside framed locomotives became popular for the railroads that had them so much that outside of the Show engines used for passenger service the narrow gauge railroads that used them filled their fleets with them.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
Maintaining outside framed locomotives sucks ass. That's false.
@Dallen9 Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 Maybe for the oiling greasing part but the heavy maintenance, like the suspension, and running gear you're going to say that the 346 and 20 are easier to work on?
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
@@Dallen9 yeah... Half the hubs, the springs are a zillion times less heavy, they don't need to go as far in (despite being inside framed the wheels + rods are narrower than the counterweights, rods, and walschaerts motion) It's not all based on inside vs. outside framed but there's hardly anything that's easier to deal with on the big engine.
@Dallen9 Жыл бұрын
@@Hyce777 I bet.... You should probably make a video on this topic as like a in-depth, behind the steam, or 101 video.
@swamppy4880 Жыл бұрын
Some 2ft narrow gauge have forney 's have outside frame also
@RailFanAthena Жыл бұрын
I’m resisting saying that “it’s because it’s converted from a c41”
@southeastiowarailfans5560 Жыл бұрын
We're parts of the k37 reused from standard gauge engines?
@crrm Жыл бұрын
Yes, check out the 10:30 mark in our recent Big Trains Tour video on 491 - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pLJnncWF3qqZcmQ.html
@Johndoe-jd Жыл бұрын
I think the boiler was made along side standard gauge boilers but only the boilers.
@Hyce777 Жыл бұрын
The museum itself replied, but the short answer is yes, the boiler and domes were re used, and the tender was converted.
@KENANDBEN098 Жыл бұрын
0:37 I can see that we are right behind him there’s nothing
@johnking6252 Жыл бұрын
Interesting video. Thx.
@gtfg3800 Жыл бұрын
Love your real train videos, not so much video games.
@GGM_Grievous0030 Жыл бұрын
If you see very little steam coming out of the smoke stack, does that mean that you are running the locomotive at it's highest efficient rate? Like the fire is burning very efficiently and you have the "perfect" amount of steam pressure and water that there is no excess steam to exert out of the smoke stack?