Excellent!

Some people would say “You are in the wrong job if you are building for the web while hating JavaScript.”

Began as a complete beginner slightly under two years ago, tried js for a week and it felt like suffering involuntary convulsions every five minutes. C# was enjoyable from the first line i ever wrote in it.

Once I got hooked up to Blazor, I kissed goodbye to JS.

@@ChamuMatumbura is it just me or is there literally still some things you pretty much HAVE to use JS for?

Thank you for continuing your learning with Tim.

@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 i learned native andoid development fom bucky later got job in xamarin and now trying to learn web development,web api ,xunit tests with tim

I use to love bucky :)

Thanks for watching and for the endorsement.

yeah most intranet apps in my company I wouldn't want to do as spa because it's just not suitable

Thank you!

I think because programming is kind of a niche stuff. Tim’s channel is very popular if think about programming as a niche activity.

You're very welcome!

I’m glad you feel that way.

That's right.

I would actually recommend blazor server side at least. I worked with razor pages some. I think that blazor is much better than razor pages and makes it much easier to create components and break out the logic and easier to maintain.

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

@@andywalter7426 Agreed, I really like working with Blazor and its superior component model and have been on-board since the really early experimental demos. But I do find razor pages to be slightly more reliable, whereas I've experienced some odd quirks and bugs with blazor, simply because its a new paradigm. I'm going to wait till .net 6 before making any leaps!

You still can, you just need to do so with an API, but it is more complicated than other options.

Thank you!

Thank you.

Awesome!

I seems like a Razor page app is better than Blazor for an app that has a large number of pages. I am doung an app that has over 50 webpages. I can't imagine how yhat would work in Blazor.

@@whatwhome6914 It is a SPA; so the main point is to figure out how to organize your app in terms of "routes". It worth mentioning that not every business/project is suitable for SPA, f.e. public pages or content-centric sites.

You are welcome.

You are welcome.

Glad to hear that!

That's a pretty good framework for decision-making.

Thank you for this summary. Did you left out MVC consciously?

@@GameplayDexter you are welcome! I am glad that a newbie like me can give somebody some useful tips of information. Frankly I never used it sir so I can’t say much unfortunately. What do you think about MVC yourself? I think that actually Blazor looks the way better then MVC in most cases but I can be wrong.

Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestion.

What would you say is better? Legitimately trying explore options at the moment.

I will add that great suggestion to Tim's list. In the mean time, get a head start using this list of Tim's Blazor videos - kzfaq.infosearch?query=blazor

+1 - I as well would love to see a full series using Blazor server. It’s such a powerful tool for so many use cases out there.

Thanks!

Great to hear. Check out his YT home page and this playlists for plenty more content.

Thanks for looking to Tim for you help.

You can do it!

All the more reason to stay up to date with Tim!

MVC will be around. But if you're just starting out just go with Blazor Server side or .NET api + Javascript. Those are the most popular to use at work.

@Soy Orbison Yeah it's easier but I think you have to ask yourself why we even define a class in the beginning? I mean look at typescript, it's becoming really popular because typed languages save so much in regards of errors.

@limelight81 But when would you need to consume an arbitrary structure in your webapp, you can only process it when you know what you want to do with it (unless it's some sort of data testing thing). And as you say, it's also possible with stuff like blazor.

@limelight81 front end JavaScript guys will always go with untyped, error prone script. Blazor with the front end running converted c#, solves this for OOP guys. People don’t know what they don’t know. Script guys are usually surface level understanding of oop, if any.

Glad it was helpful!

It is coming, but not right away, though. I want to get some things built with Blazor first.

@Soy Orbison, sure if you're debating SPA versus MPA but the topic is what to use from the .net ecosystem, and knowing the advantages disadvantages of Blazor SPA versus Razor Pages MPA is necessary knowledge.

Lol. Imply a problem but don't provide even a few example details. That's helpful.

You are welcome.

Best of luck!

Thank you!

You are welcome.

Thanks for watching! ... and I bet you could find a couple more questions he did not cover. LOL

You are welcome.

I'll take on that challenge. Let's address your points one at a time. So your first point is that you were burned by Silverlight (weren't we all), so you aren't going to get burned by Blazor. I know that's the common comparison, but it's an apples to oranges comparison. Silverlight was a proprietary Microsoft technology that relied on browsers to support a custom extension to bring a proprietary coding language to the web. It required access that opened the browsers up for danger/viruses. That effort failed. People didn't install the extension, browsers struggled with supporting it vs maintaining security, and Microsoft got tired of the effort. That was a bad situation. Blazor is an open-source project built upon a web standard. Blazor Server uses SignalR and JavaScript to communicate (SignalR is just a wrapper around web sockets with fallbacks for long polling and other communication methods - all of these are web standards). Blazor WebAssembly uses WebAssembly, a JavaScript system for supporting web applications. All of this is built upon industry standards. None of this is proprietary. All of it is open source. So comparing an open source, web standard project against a closed-source, proprietary solution with no external backing is a bad comparison. OK, point two is that JavaScript is the language of the web so therefore C# is just inferior on the web and shouldn't try to compete. That's not what Blazor is doing. Blazor is building on JavaScript so that we can use C# for some of the interactions and JavaScript for the rest. Right now, the common "wisdom" seems to be that if you want any type of web application, you need Angular, React, or Vue. There's a problem there. It is like buying a Ferrari for every person that needs a car. Sure, some might need/use it but not everything needs that type of overhead. That's where Blazor comes in. It provides a web-standards compliant way to use C# to extend into the common areas of web applications. The benefits of doing so are that it reduces the number of applications that need full SPA frameworks, plus it reuses existing skills. You dismiss the idea that reusing existing C# skills is a factor, but I feel that's incorrect. Being an expert in C# and an expert in JavaScript (including at least one SPA framework) is practically impossible. As you get better in one, your skills will suffer in the other. It can be done, but it takes a tremendous effort (been there, done that - Angular front-end and WebAPI backend as a lead developer with only one other developer on the team). By allowing C# developers to go all the way to the full front-end with C#, we reduce the skills necessary for some teams. Yes, there is still definitely a place for SPA frameworks. However, now a shop has options. If they have two developers, they don't have to dedicate one to each language (or be ok with mediocre in both developers). The lie JavaScript has taught us is that the only way to truly exist on the web is through mountains of JavaScript code. That's just not true. Not every web application needs to be a client-side app. Not every web app needs to be a full SPA. Not all code on the front end of the web needs to be written in JavaScript.

@@IAmTimCorey Woah!! You brought a Model M to a membrane and rubber domes fight!

Thanks for supporting Tim

@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 - Oh no! You must be Tim's Tom! ;o)

@@pw.70 Truly!

My thoughts exactly.

Web applications can definitely benefit from offline access. For instance, the cable company where I used to live used a web application for their technicians. That way, their technicians could use any phone/tablet they wanted. However, their technicians were working on installations where the Internet might not work so they made the web app a PWA with offline capabilities. The tech would fill in the work ticket information offline (if necessary) and would then sync it when they got back online. Delivery services also use systems like this.

On point, I don't know why everyone keeps calling it downside...what do you wanna do on the browser if the server is down?? There's no magic about it, it should just disconnect

@@kevinmungame1869 To me, coming from a desktop developer background it's not something conceivable that one user click in the front-end trigger a round trip to a server. And I am not an ecologist! Therefore I have never been interested by Blazor Server but Blazor Webassembly is another story.

Its about the purpose of the app... If the primary purpose is presenting info offline is pretty useless. If its about collecting information offline could be vital.

Thanks!

Have you checked out Blazor Server yet? It isn't exactly the same as WebForms, but the spirit of WebForms is absolutely there. It is quick to build, it is quick to reuse "pages" as components, and it has the best of both client-side and server-side development.

@@IAmTimCorey I’m hearing a lot about Blazor Server these days. I heard quite good things when it comes to single page application development. But I’m still not sure if I can make complex ERP applications with it. But I guess I need to try it before I come to any conclusion.

While it does act like a single page application (SPA), it isn't really the same thing. It has the same scalability of any web application for making complete ERP applications. The biggest "concern" you will need to have is on the scaling of the SignalR connection. A good server can handle between 10,000 and 20,000 simultaneous connections. After that, you need to either offload your SignalR to Azure SignalR or spool up a second web server. Not really an issue since you probably need to scale everything up at that point anyway (remember, this isn't 20,000 connections per day but at one time so you can have hundreds of thousands of daily visitors without issue). Here is an intro video on Blazor Server: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bqp-msehzbLakZs.html If you come to the point where you want to move forward with Blazor and need to know more, my Blazor Server In Depth course will really help: www.iamtimcorey.com/p/blazor-server-in-depth

Yep, Blazor Server and Blazor WebAssembly are two different project types. I am glad you learned something new.

I would probably lean towards Razor Pages. Blazor is best when there is user interaction (capturing user input, etc.). CNN is mainly used for consumption of content. Razor Pages are really quick and light. They are also simple. Later, if you want to add in Blazor Server (or MVC or API), you can easily just add it in for the pages that need it.

I am glad it was so helpful.

I use Telerik Reports, I worked for many years with Crystal Reports and SQLRS, I found in Telerik Reports what I needed, you can do the Reports with the Visual Studio Designer or with the Report Designer (Windows only), but what I like most is Telerik Report Server, where I publish all my reports and then run on my ASP.NET MVC or Blazor Client applications.

I noted your recommendation by adding it to Tim's list of possible future topics, thanks.

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

Thanks for sharing from your experiences.

Thanks for the suggestion. In general, Automapper is probably the way to go.

It depends on the type of web service. Remember that nothing is secure on the client-side, so you can't put access tokens or other items in the Blazor code that authorize the application to talk to the web service. If you can use application authorization or ask the user for credentials, then you will be fine.

We appreciate you making Tim a part of your development journey

Blazor WebAssembly can be a progressive web application (PWA). That means that you can install it on any client (iOS, Android, Mac, Linux, Windows, etc.) as if it is an application. However, it is just a small wrapper around a headless browser window. This is a way to get your web app to look and function like a mobile app for practically free. However, it does not have access to anything more than what a regular web application has access to. You cannot get access to any specific resources like a mobile app can.

You are welcome.

Have you seen the new Blazor Web App in .NET 8 (which mixes both and more): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rcecqZafsbquZZs.html As for WebAssembly, it updates itself in the background automatically.

Blazor server is perfect for that.

@@JoePiotti Could you elaborate, I'm also looking into this so it would be nice to get an explanation as to why Blazor is a good choice.

Well... That is an option 😉

If u uave blazor, why would use inefficient javascript?

@@SayWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Well because first of all I know Next.js 😁 and currently learning ASP. The cool thing about next.js is that it can generate static page. Which is just html, css. After that it can behave like a react application. Next.js has many cool feature that is well suited for most of the websites. And I think webassembly is overkill for basic pages like blog, portfolio etc. At the end, It always depends.

Thanks for watching and sharing your Tip!

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

It comes from not actually having used them all, which is understandable. If you haven't used any yet, you will want to know which one is the best.

@Soy Orbison true, true. But it's like if you read things like the Buddha's teachings: often people come to the Buddha with a question, and often the Buddha makes that person realize that that question is not important at that moment, and there is an underlying thing that one should focus on. I'm quite active on stack overflow, and often you see questions like "how can I optimize this code" by people who don't seem to yet understand the fundamentals of programming. Imho they should focus on other things first

@Soy Orbison I was thinking of a second similarity, which you actually see quite often: people starting playing electric guitar and asking things like "which are the best pickups" and "I want to buy a $5000 guitar, which should I buy". While they should first focus on learning to play the guitar. Maybe join a band. See if they will actually like it for longer then a year (because many people actually drop the hobby within).

Offline access. That's the big one.

I'm just using Asp Net Core MVC .Net6 to build E-Commerce now! Mostly I use MVC but I tried Razor too! I do prefer MVC though! But definitely I'm interested in Blazor never used!

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

We are still working through this. The issue is that you are seeing a podcast. It is meant to be listened to. You get to see extra because you are watching it, but I don't want the listening experience to be less valuable.

Thanks!

Thanks for the recommendation. I have added it to Tim's list of viewer suggestions for videos.

No, I don’t think so. They each serve a purpose still, plus they are web standard designs, unlike WebForms.

I'm sorry, I really can't give you a specific answer. You need to figure out what works best for your specific situation. For instance, as a consultant, there were about 30 things I would evaluate to make a decision on which technology to use in a given situation, and it would even change per-project.

I have not had that experience on the web (running production apps on a cheap web host). It sounds like you had some bad configuration or you were pushing way too much data to the screen somehow. Blazor Server can handle thousands of records on the screen while scrolling with very little issue. Plus, now with .NET 5 and the Virtualize tag, you can have millions of records and yet have a smooth experience.

Probably used an Azure free tier and didn't enable Web sockets, lol.

Here is a link to them (affiliate link): www.interserver.net/r/589892 Make sure to get the ASP.NET hosting (which handles .NET Core just fine).

I use this one: also very inexpensive and great service: winhost.com

Thank you. I have added this to Tim's list of possible future topics.

Great.

Thank you. I have added this to Tim's list of possible future topics.

@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 thank you!

This can be a confusing topic. What makes it even more confusing is that Microsoft combined the two concepts into one in .NET 8. But let me explain each individually first. Blazor WebAssembly (WASM): Similar to React, yes. It is fully client-side rendered. Blazor Server: Somewhat similar to Next, but also different. It is a Server-Side Rendered language (SSR), so no code goes to the client. However, it uses SignalR (really just a wrapper around Web Sockets) to give real-time client-side interactivity. That gives you the safety of a server-side language while giving you the functionality of a client-side language. The only downside is the constantly-open connection to the server (super-tiny, so you can have thousands of connections on even a decent web server). Now let's discuss .NET 8. In .NET 8 we have two Blazor projects: Blazor WebAssembly - Yes, this one still exists because you can make a PWA and run your web application offline. Blazor Web App - This can do SSR, Server, and WebAssembly all in one project. You can use SSR for pages that don't need client-side interactivity (or not much, since there can be a little). Then you can also have components that are Server or WebAssembly. This means the page could be SSR, but a small piece could have client-side interactivity. The really nice one is when you say the component is Auto. That means that the component renders initially as Server, since a Blazor Server component is very quick to render (but relies on that connection). However, in the background, the WebAssembly version of that same component is downloaded to the client. When the download is complete, the component is swapped out for the WebAssembly version. The client will use the WASM component from then on, including on future page renders. This gives you the initial speed of server-rendered Blazor Server and then gives you even more speed with the client-side rendered component without needing to wait for the initial download and now without having to rely on a constant SignalR connection anymore either.

@@IAmTimCorey Thank you for such a detailed answer. You are the C# Legend

For Blazor WebAssembly, the second project is another UI project (an API) as opposed to just a class library.

@@IAmTimCorey Ahh. Thank you for the clarification.

I'm glad!

I really enjoy it too.

Thanks!

I prefer Angular because it is more like c# to me. Yes, it has a steeper learning curve, but like I said it was more natural to me to go along with web api.

​@@kevincordell9539 I move to web apps soon, and sure I give an angular test, thanks for stating that.

I prefer to keep all of my development in one language (C#) whenever possible. It allows my developers to be more of an expert in the language because they aren't trying to be an expert in two languages. However, when I can't, I tend to lean towards Vue. It is simpler than the other two, with less to go wrong and less to learn. I used to use Angular, but they burned me with the move from 1 to 2. I'm really not a fan of the rapid iterations on any of them. It makes developing an enterprise system really hard.

@@leeroy1986 Thank you so much for the clarification.

@@IAmTimCorey Thanks so much, your point of view always makes things easier.

I am not sure what you are trying to communicate here. Containers (I'm assuming Docker containers) just hold a web application. Which type of ASP.NET Core web application you use in a container is up to you. You wouldn't send a container to an end user to run your site. That would be impractical. If you mean you would send them to a customer who used them as their web server, that would work. However, only the image is immutable, not the container. It also does not really protect your sensitive data to be in a container.

There is no best in my opinion. Each has their strengths and weaknesses and you choose what is best for your specific situation. All of these can handle a large application.

The fastest for your situation will probably be Razor Pages. They are super-quick.

Thank you!

You are welcome.

Sure. Just remember that humans don't have the ability to comprehend that much information on the screen at one time. Show what they need to make a decision (it is less than you think). Paging, caching, etc. will make your site very responsive.

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for growing your skills with this video.

Yep

Glad you enjoyed it.

You are welcome.

This is like coming into a discussion on what different screwdrivers do and insisting that the right choice is a hammer. Different tools have different jobs. Different web application types have different jobs, which is what I was conveying. I'm not sure if you think I was de-emphasizing API or emphasizing it, but API is an important tool that every web developer should know how to use. It just isn't the solution to every problem.

Yep.

Unless your web host does not allow web sockets, you should not need separate hosting for SignalR. It just runs on the web server.

I'll give it a try. Thank you very much for your quick reply!

@Soy Orbison Well thought. Thank you, Soy.

That was preview 1. Preview 2 fully supports .NET Framework. No .NET Core for WebForms though.

We hope Tim's videos continue to help you grow your skills to help support that family business.

@@tomthelestaff-iamtimcorey7597 I guess that's a 'yes' then to my question... ? Thank you though either way.

No, the answer to the question is that it depends. If I were starting today, I would probably use Blazor. Lest context switching between languages.

@@IAmTimCorey Yeah, for pure greenfield I'm kinda ready to go Blazor (where as a year back I felt it wasn't quite there yet); beyond the context switching I am personally 100% tired of the insane complexity of the front-end stack. It feels like current JS UX approach has 'jump the shark' and I've actually gone back to writing vanilla JS for my small projects. Anyway, thanks for the clarification Tim, appreciate it.