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Early game junglers are meant to snowball other lanes that scale better into late game, around the time when they become irrelevant. Late game junglers are meant to counter the laners that the early game junglers snowballed, either way, you’re getting yelled at.

Fiora is a lategame midgame earlygame hypercarry with only weakness, being potential potato brain of the user

It all depends on the skill of the player, Brother Vars. Draven is glorious, strong, and stylish. But if the player doesn't take advantage of my strengths. I will be going 0/10.

The problem with early game champs is if they get behind or don’t have an opportunity to snowball they’ll try to shift blame, ff at 15, or run it down. That’s why learning how to be carried is just as important as learning how to carry imo

Fiora is late game? Why is a """late game""" champion allowed to be such a pain in the ass during laning phase?

Camille and Yone are THE early game, mid game, late game top, mid, adc, support, jungle, tank, adc, skirmisher, bruiser, assasin, mage. So they are THE stronger champion.

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of the modern champion scale well or at least relatively decent into the late game?

Funny how Fiora is strong in early, mid and late game

Keep in mind that the enemy team will be tilted and exhausted faster if you had the advantage most of the time, so even at the late game they won't play that great

Vars : i think i am forgetting something for this video editor : if you forgot it, then its not important Vars : yeah mid game champions : ... edit : hey vars, could you make a video on nasus vs renekton or kayle vs morgana?

Pro play: early game jungler, scaling everywhere else (except support). Jungle has the highest impact in the game early on, so they can hold 3 lanes without push and give up camps, while lanes powerfarm for late

The main problem with some champs is that even though they scale well their early game agency is amazing too. I'd argue that ornn scales almost just as well as a kayle, with team item upgrades to follow but his earlygame is sometimes too strong, letting him even WIN lane often times even when the two players are similar skill, that should not be allowed

i know this isnt the topic but its kinda funny that many of the champions in the "why no one plays" series are actually getting a lot of attention and are good nowadays

Early game champions typically have more hard carry potential, but just not as much innate consistency in their kits. In short, play Tryndamere. He's OP in both.

Personally ever since the durability update my average match time has been 35-50 minutes long in draft normals so I'm very much in the camp of late game champs, but the more important thing is having a engage that's good at all points of the game like rakan or thresh it makes such a difference in team fights and allows late game champs to get early kills and early game champs to stay relevent into the late game now the person piloting that champ still needs to know what they are doing, but I think as a whole having a engage that doesn't care about what point of the game they are in matters far more than if your carries are late or early game champs

i think the most difficult part of playing late game champs is just the fact that you're gonna have to deal with the inherent tilt factor of teammates who don't want to wait till late game before they make their bonobo ass plays. If they feed early and you're not strong enough early to stop them or reset the difference, they'll be less motivated to wait for your scaling. If you hard push and win lane, roam and gank hella, the general mental of a team is stronger because you experience slight wins, and avoid/mitigate losses at the start of the game that might tilt your team.

The thing with late game champions is that they aren’t always at a disadvantage early. That might be the case some of the time or even most of the time but even the most heavily scaling champions have lane matchups in which they are favored. Conversely, even the best early game champions have lane matchups they lose. So late game champions have the advantage because it is possible to line things up where they win early and still have all their late game power, whereas 30 minute Renekton is always 30 minute Renekton regardless of how hard you won lane.

playing champions that are good at every stage of the game >>>>

Why choose between early and late when you can have irelia, akshan, yone or Jax who are strong in every phase of the game

How to beat Korean players in ranked on their server. Lock in a team of late game Champs, play extremely safe and farm let nothing happen, they'll go insane and lose their minds and ff for wasting time or theu will lose because early game is all they practiced.

Late game fiora does an avarage of 23% max health true dmg per proc Ulti make it 92% What a bitc...

"Im gonna leave a poll in the description" he says. 🤔

Both are equally important, in my opinion. But I'm more comfortable playing late-game champs since 1) Once I'm relevant, I'm always relevant, and 2) I'm naturally a pacifist, I don't want to just get into fights constantly, so while many people say late-game champs don't get to play the game for the first 20 minutes, I very much enjoy just sitting back and farm for 20 minutes straight.

To me the problem when comparing early to late is that in the current state of the game, a lot of champions that used to be very late game oriented are much stronger at earlier stages than before. This has been the case ever since Riot reworked the items. The first item mythic power spike is so big that even late game champs can trade as soon as they get it. Champs like Vayne should not be able to win against early-mid game oriented bot lane comps (and she generally doesn't), however since the release of the new runes and new items, Vayne has access to lethal tempo or press the attack plus a huge shield along with life steal on her first item, that's nuts. And the same can apply to a lot of champs. Champs like Camille, Gwen or Fiora are also scaling duelists but as soon as they hit one full item they can poop on early game champs because the power spike is just that strong.

Champions who are great at both (riven, fiora, gangplank, etc…)

I personally enjoy late game and scaling champions more. The power fantasy they bring far exceed whatever you could pull off with a lane bully of some sorts. Being the patient person I am, it's logical that I don't mind the waiting for that moment to arrive.

As a jg main there are 2 scenarios: - Play a early game jg, get lanes ahead, become useless later on and prob get flamed. - Play a late game jg, scale and counter other snowballed lanes at the cost of your own lanes, and prob get flamed.

Here is my hot take: every game has an early game phase, but not every game has a late game phase

I'd say it depends on lane. In solo lanes, if you play a late game champ and know how to play the early game safe, then you will be more likely to be able to carry your game as it progresses. With jg or bot, you are kind of forced into early game champs because of how kill-focused those roles are. Jg needs to put pressure on lanes early to be able to make a consistent difference. Bot is so early game focused because of jg pressure and the fact that almost every adc and support seems to tilt harder than a seesaw when anything goes wrong in lane.

Fun wise I think it comes down to your own preferences, but I will say that snowballing as a late game champ is so much more fun. Being able to carry because you kept up with the role opponent feels good

I really feel like riot really doesnt make scaling champs weak enough in the early game

I remember a Dota pro once described position 1 (equivalent of ADC) as the team's insurance policy. Which makes total sense considering their naturally late-game oriented kits! Time is on their side, if your team doesn't have a significant advantage by a certain timer, that's when the insurance comes into play.

​"5 out of few hundred games are genuinely unwinnable" there is a line between being optimistic and insane and you crossed it with triple speed of sound

It's so situational that there is no one better playstyle. It's just as you said if late gamers can play the early mid well they are garunteed to win. If early gamers can pop off early they have a good shot at shutting their opponents outs. But the chance is never zero for the latest.

I actually think its fairly balanced between the two, but the interaction centers around the existence of the late game scaler. The point of the early game champ is to stop the enemy late game champs from reaching late game, and simultaneously help your team's late game champs reach their late game faster. However the pressure is super high on early game champions to shut down that late game champion through whatever means necessary, and if you can't find a way to do it before they reach powerspikes it can start to feel impossible to take them out. On the flipside, late game champions need to find a way to get the gold necessary to reach their late game status as fast as possible, but their weak early game makes doing that a lot harder when up against early game champs, which is why you need to play cautiously and take fight with thought in order to ensure you don't fall behind as said fight is a risk. I don't think any late game champ excels at showing this more than Viktor, whose passive is a great mid/late game scaling passive, but without fighting, takes extremely long to reach its full potential as it requires nearly 300cs. With champ takedowns giving 25 progress taking fights early is paramount to getting ahead on him, but you can't just rush in for kills recklessly because of how weak he is early. Sometimes on Vik i've played my cards perfectly and become an absolutely unstoppable monster at 20 minutes, and others i've screwed up one fight early on and became irrelevant for the entire rest of the game. Its a delicate dance that both parties have to play and I don't think one is inherently stronger than the other, its just that late game champs are what the interaction between early and late game champs centers itself on.

An interesting question 🤔 In my opinion I'll say early to mid game heroes are superior to late game monsters Especially is you're playing solo que You're more likely to win more games with a champion who is really good at snowballing than a one who needs couple of items to become online But at the end of the day is all up to the skill of the player not the champion

I hope you'll consider Pantheon not only as an strong early champion, because he's actually strong late, while being a bit weak in mid game witch is funny.

It is also important to note that some early game champions have strong utility value late game aswell, i.e. pantheon E shield wall gives him damage invulnerability from a specific direction. This gives the champion additional value as the game goes later enabling him to still function as a threat for the enemy team to deal with in teamfights along with his point and click stun and decent burst damage. Characters arent just simply limited by a binary of being strong early and weak late or the opposite weak early and strong late, we must also estimate their value from a functional and mechanical stand point as certain abillities enable champions to be valuable as a pick even in later stages of a game and vice versa.

I think its just best to have a even mix of both types of champs tbh

I think scaling champs generally have the edge unless your team drafts 5 scaling champions that are forced to afk during the laning phase giving up all pressure to where the enemy starts going for risky plays that normally wouldn't work but, since your team has no way of countering it you just hard lose. Also, if your goal is to climb picking a champion that you don't think can win lane phase consistently will probably be a big obstacle to you so, ideally pick something with an all around decent set of skills that if you're good enough you can outplay someone that maybe specializes in a certain thing

I think the answer is based on kits with good utility. Utility lets the strong early people contribute later on and the strong late people to still be useful before then.

I would place my bets on the early game. In my train of thought, it's better to quickly dominate your opponent in lane when they're still struggling to wind up and deal with them late game. But that doesn't mean I don't value late game play. As a Panth main, I have had many games where I've started off on a solid foot only to be overpowered by an enemy Veigar, Fiora, Darius. To also answer the question of team comp. I think it would be wise to have a range of champions with their power spike at each early, mid and late game focusing on the early game.

For Yone, attackspeed doubles as cooldownreduction and he basically has double the attackspeed to begin with since his Q behaves mostly like an autoattack, crit chance is 2.5x effective and grants bonus ad and ad increases his physical, magical and true damage. With these scalings, he is not only a late game champion, but he reaches mit game with just his boots and late game with his first item. Which is great fun for all involved.

my team with 5 early game champion losing to 5 late game champions and ff's at 15:

This Guy is a master of talking on end without getting to the Point

I think the key point this fails to mention is what champions your team and the enemy team picks. If 9 players are playing early game champs, there's a very high chance that one of those 9 start to snowball. Unless you can Cs massively better than an average player, your scaling champ won't get to their spike before one side wins. And then you feel hopeless seeing this, and start playing early champs, perpetuating the problem. Personally I feel late game champs tend to be better, but you need to team to work with you, and not just coin flip the early game, which without being premade can be really hard to do

Me: Sees Fiora in "Late game" Also me: _Thomas has never seen such bullshit before_

7:26 *Add a reverb fart sound effect for that Yone Ult* 😂😂

Traditional logic would suggest early game would be more impactful since it A) occurs in every game and B) directly impacts the late game. However, since 95% of all games are low elo in which we know games go longer, I’ve gotta go with late game.

Always watching these on the treadmill

The most important thing is the elo. Low elo players don’t know how to end games early, so most of the time, we’re hitting end game, and our ADC is trying to frontline, so Nasus walks around like a demigod, sticking his staff up our asses because our team drafted like blind mice and the jungler had to AFK because his mom called him down for dinner and

I play competitive pokémon (specyally VGC), and I can understand the allegory of sweepers, but actually sweepers are used often in late game because in that time every pokémon has been damaged and bulky-defensive pokémon cannot resist much. There are still "early game" sweepers. Most of them are pokémon with recoil damage moves like talonflame (in 6th gen), or darmanitan, that deal as much damage as possible before falling due to recoil, they usually are powerful wall breakers (specially darmanitan); but late game sweepers are more valuable in VGC even more if they have AOE damage, an example is scarf landorus T using earthquake, kyogre with water spout (Yes, this year are allowed a max of 2 legendaries like kyogre, zacian, etc.), etc. Another example of late game sweepers are boosters. You can't use it unless you take down the opposing pokémon that walls it. In general, you cannot use much boosters because VGC tends to be solid, with bulky pokémon to resist and deal damage at the same time (there are not much stall in VGC due to the shorter battles), so the best option is bring one, or two, but not more fast late game sweepers in a VGC team.

While I think early is stronger, my favourite champion are « late game champion who excel not in late game », as Illaoi Yorick are my main and secondary.

"U can't afk farm 20 minutes." Ryze mains : i'll ignore that

It heavily depends on matchup, role, and player skill. When played well an early game top laner can effectively lock their opponent out of the game creating an unwinable situation. On the other hand an unkillable late game tank can act as an anchor for enabling picks and team fights that can be pushed to win the game. The best teams have a mix of both and play to their teammates strengths unless they have a champion that’s hyper focused on a single phase like Lee Sin early, or Vigar late who can act as win conditions by themselves.

In pisslow you are required to have a late game champ everyone chases for kills.

I believe that early game is more important. Mostly because like you said, every game has an early game but not every game has a late game. If I lose a game as an early game champ, the blame is on me. If I didn't snowball properly, I have to review what I missed or misplayed to learn from it. If I got a lead and threw, I can learn from my throw. But if I lose a game as a late game scaler, I might not be able to take anything from it. If I'm Kassadin and my bot and top are hard losing and the enemy mid is shutting down my jungler, I have no options to do anything because my champ doesn't do anything until 25 minutes (which is the reason I hate having Kassadin on my team as a jungler).

What i believe is more important? a mix a both on the team as the early game champions can protect the late game champions or try to end early through snowballing and if they can't then hopefully they did enough damage to where the late game champions can take over. And trust me we all want to have a early game support over a late game support to save the useless adc from feeding the enemy bot. Or a Soraka that is good through all of the stages of the game in top lane

I think it depends on the ranks. High rank player will know how to take advantage of an early kill with an early champ and use the extra gold and exp to keep on ganking and snowball early and mid making it imposible for late champs to scale. On the other hand, low rank players will get one good gank and just just farm for the next 5 minutes giving the enemy late champs a chance to farm and scale.

I'd rather divide the game by ongoing map objectives, slightly differently than by tower plates and dragon soul. Early is laning phase where everyone is spread out, Mid game is grouping up to take towers/dragons/baron beyond just roamers lending an assist - this is when the team fighting really starts, and late game starts when an inhibitor falls and the team that's behind is really on its back foot. However, it could just be that I'm not good enough to be in the games with good enough farming during the laning phase that people are ready to take towers as soon as the plates fall, as well as dragons not prioritized enough to make them the tipping point for late game.

6:56 The rare vars stater. We don't see that often

imo early game champs is somewhat better because : - Early game will ALWAYS HAPPEN, no matter what - You can win before getting to lategame - You can just abuse lategame champs - If you win early, you get early dragons to help your lategame I'd say the best composition would be 3 early & 2 lategame champs. So early champs can dominate the game until lategame champs get to their strongest point and get going.

There are really only 3 (arguably 5) metrics that you need to look at to determine if a champ scales well. Survivability, Tankbusting and Aoe. You could argue engage potential and CC, but those are less important and really just make it so you don't scale poorly.

Would it be possible to make the argument it depends on your team? For example, could a late game champion survive on a early game team composition, and then could a early game champ survive on a late game composition? And if so, which is easier/better?

I think some lategame champs have it too free earlygame. Things like vlad is strong early and insane late, same with yasuo and yone. There are a loooot of other champs that have not abusable/are even lane bullies in majority of matchups, such as gp

I love kassadin, GP,Jayce, and Jax. All champions that just scale super hard. My main reason to playing late game champions is that I know how to win my lane. So playing a early game champion hurts my chances of carrying the team out of laning phase if they start to feed. If I play a late game character then my champion gets so much power that my actions have so much impact that I can turn the tide for my team when it really matters.

I see the game like this: Very early game is until 5.00. Early game is until 8.00. Mid game starts at 15.30. Late game starts at 25.00. Very late game starts at 42.00. The gaps where one ends and another begins is the transitioning dependent on the compositions and game situation. This is taking all 10 champions into consideration and not just if the enemy yorick has taken your 2/3 top lane towers when your shen ult'ed bot at level 8.

Honestly I mostly play tanks so no matter what point in the game I’m in I’ll always be useful in someway. Even if I’m not doing the damage I used to do I’ll always be a meat shield and have a lot of CC so I’ll always be useful in Teamfights.

The problem with early champs is that they are pressured to make plays and gain a advantage high enough to make the other team unable to catch up. I seen many lee sin and other early champs that get fed and yet were still unable to use the apportunity to deal a huge blow or finish the game. One needs to know how to carry a game to play early game champs. I personaly play mostly mid game champs like sion, kayn asw. They don´t suck early and also are good for the rest of the game.

The biggest factor (although i know this came out 4 months ago) are the meta and champs released are all early game. Rarely play a game thats over 30min and actually close enough that either team can win. You can tell within 10min if a game is a lose or not. The champions are only 25% of the equation. If they player is just bad it doesnt matter how much time they have.

Is there are list where you could see which supports are early game champs and which are late game? I haven't found such list yet, still relatively new to league and sometimes struggling with understanding which champs scale well and which don't..

I usually enjoy mages most so like Syndra, Ahri, Viktor and so on. But man picking Talon is just such a bloody kick.

How I feel old - when I have no idea what these new Pokemon do since I haven't kept up with the newer generations....

I think after the durability patch, having a safe early game and strong mid game is so much better since if you start snowballing and getting ahead in levels, you're even tankier now since you get more durability per level. The most popular ADCs right now are the ones that can play safe and farm for 15 minutes and then they pop off like Jhin, Samira, Zeri, and MF. Mages are strong now for the same reason. Free laning through their range, and assassins can't kill them in lane anymore, letting them spike hard at one/two items and proceed to carry since they can't be killed anymore with their level lead. Riot needed to reduce damage, not increase durability if they wanted to make the game more late game focused. But then tanks would take over since their items would give them far more resistances since resistances give diminishing returns, so lower base resistances means more effective bonus resistances, and lower damage means that tanks would be actually unkillable after one item. So we would still have a meta of one item spikes, only people would complain about tank meta. The real problem is that items are too strong, especially mythic items. The nature of the item system means whoever reaches the powerful items first will almost always overpower the one who doesn't. This game, as long as the items stay this way, will always be an early-mid based game.

To this day I am yet to see a champion who comes close to being as powerful as jax with the old spear of shojin in mid to late game.

maybe its cos i've never been rly high elo (avg plat, peak d2) - but I personally prefer more early game pressure on a comp, rather than scailing comp. Reason is simple - if you have more early "stat/champion" pressure you are in control of what is going to happen on a map. And its always less scary to drive, than to be a passanger :)

Pantheon is the strongest early game champion if your team mates follow up whenever you cast your 2nd ability .

Here's the strawpoll! strawpoll.com/polls/7rnzG9PvLgO

Mario party 8 is my all time favorite game and my dude just randomly said chump charity while I was eating 💀💀💀 It's actually insane how similar our interests are, fire emblem, yugioh, league, smash, mario party

This video explain very well why you should play riots favorites like yone strong early mid and late game

champions scaling is directly impacted by team comps and how well their kit is enabled in a game. With too much cc and a useful adc nasus can be as usefull as renketon late game.

Imo I feel like late game champs are better because in low elo specifically, people don’t really know how to close out games, they just fight until one side hard stomps the other

i rlly like ur commentary on the balancing and design of the game, but tbh sometimes i just watch it bcus of ur voice lmao

I don't remember the last time a game went late enough for my xerath to really pop off. FF at 15 means I win or lose long before I have even 3 items. ussually just after plates go down.

"To Skayle you have to fight" Laughs in Kayle

As a person who has gone multiple times 20/4 on Akali and lost due to going into late game, the same or other early to mid game champs I play, its definitely better to play a late game champ, if played well, and the job for early game champs imo, is to help the late game champs to get to that point, not try to scale themselves.

My only problem with scaling champs is that some of them are lane bullies/ have strong laning as well. When you consider champs like Gangplank, Fiora, Camille, Riven, etc there’s just no reason they should be so strong early but also hyper scale into late game monsters.

Early Jungle, late ADC and Mid, whatever the Top feels like. Overall, though, I think early is better purely for the fact that the early game is a guarantee, while the late game is a possibility

Gank plank -early game i start shooting. Mid game i start throwing shooting stars. Late game my casks go boom.

I used to spam Renekton on almost every game, oftenly winning hard on lane but losing to a 10/1 Vayne and that type of fed hypercarry anyways so yeah, I prefer late game champions as I can at least do something even if my team did nothing but play for the other team

I would argue that some early game champions aren't just early game for their high base numbers but also because of inherent utility to their kit. A champion like Panth may have high base numbers, but having a point and click stun and directional damage immunity also contribute to his early game strength. Thing is though, is that his W and E can still be useful in the late game regardless of how fed he or the enemy team is. Even if he fell behind, he can at least guarantee one person getting stunned in a good pick. Coupled with his ult, he's still a constant threat offering incredible setup with the rest of his team even if his dps and durability falls off.

That solar panel analogy was kinda doodooass checks

Every time i watch you my mind thinks better make more pls

nothing like playing a hyperscaler with a terrible early game, doing well (relatively) in lane, starting to ramp up, and then the enemy team ffs at 20 before you can reach that delayed gratification

Feel like the biggest problem with early game champs, especially junglers, Is no matter how hard you can get ahead. Due to the nature of solo Q, and particularly low elo solo Q, it’s almost impossible to get your 4 random teammates to play to end the game before you lose your lead to late gamers and get out scaled. Just my thoughts tho

I like playing late game champions because I don't have the pressure to be aggressive in lane and I can just chill and scale and always know that my win con is getting to late game and teamfighting while playing an early game champion with terrible scalling you are under constant pressure to get a lead get kills snowball the game and end it quickly before late game which I don't enjoy but other players may.

It's late game champions. If you can manage to get a lead despite your early game weakness, you will never lose. Suppose Vayne gets first blood and manages to get a nice lead in laning phase? Well, she's gonna be a terrifying 1v9 machine when late game comes. If the same happens on Draven, it's possible for the enemy team to stall the game or one of your teammates to throw a shutdown to your lane opponent through no fault of your own and now suddenly it becomes a lot harder to win because your lane opponent probably outscales you.

I ultimately think late game is stronger because it's easier to force a longer game than end a game at 15min. But, there is value in knowing that early game Champs can force a gg early especially from mid or jg.

Bounties are super interesting. Going 10/0 as Lee Sin doesn't matter if Twitch gets an 1000 gold shutdown.