Which Drugs Make ADHD Worse?

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Which Drugs Make ADHD Worse?

Рет қаралды 2,468

2 ай бұрын

It’s challenging to study what medications worsen ADHD. In part this is because most drug research is conducted by pharmaceutical companies that tend to minimize the drawbacks of their products. But even independent researchers, with limited time and budgets, would rather explore what can help alleviate a condition, rather than what makes it worse. So the information we have is a mishmash of anecdotal case reports, theoretical concerns, and comments in on-line chat discussions.
In scientific studies, stimulants are among the drugs most widely mentioned as capable of exacerbating ADHD - but this is largely because they are the most widely studied medications for ADHD. Most cases of them worsening ADHD (aside from their other side effects) are situations in which the dose is too high, causing over activation and anxiety which can disrupt brain function.
If helping those with ADHD was as simple as boosting brain levels of dopamine or norepinephrine, we would expect a number of drugs to worsen ADHD symptoms. Antipsychotics (dopamine blockers) and blood pressure medications (many of which decrease norepinephrine) would be at the top of the list. But brains, and the neurochemistry of ADHD, aren’t that simple. Many of these drugs are reported to help with, or at worst, are neutral, regarding ADHD symptoms.
We also might try to distinguish between medications that directly worsen specific symptoms of ADHD, and those drugs that impair the brain’s ability to perform tasks. Sedating or numbing properties of benzodiazepines or SSRI fall in the latter category.
References:
Antihypertensive drugs and brain function: mechanisms underlying therapeutically beneficial and harmful neuropsychiatric effects (2023)
academic.oup.c...
The Dopamine Dilemma: Using Stimulants and Antipsychotics Concurrently (2010)
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Non-Stimulant Treatment for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (2005)
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Adult attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder symptoms, cognitive dysfunction and quality of life in high-dose use of benzodiazepine and Z-drug
link.springer....

Пікірлер: 46

@MelvinIsMerlin 2 ай бұрын

Love your content Dr. Kruse. I love how real and genuine you are. My rant, My Doctor has put me on a dozen different types of antidepressants and antipsychotics over the last decade while being on low dosages of stimulants for 2 decades. I believe the antidepressants have actually made my life objectively worse but I'm often too numb to perceive it. I feel nearly addicted to the affects of SSRIs now. Without it there's an odd void which wasn't there before the medications. I have brought this up with my doctor and asked for a candid reply that was genuine but she always says, "well let's try another drug." TLDR: life got worse with adhd on antidepressants. Honestly feel like I've zoned out the last decade. P.S My life is good! its just I'm aware of the negative effects in hindsight. Thought I'd share my experience

@conceptofeverything8793 2 ай бұрын

Thats why I want to get on stimulants for a period of time until I solve out my employment and habits. The last couple of months have been mentally exhausting for me, and the drugs to help me regulate my sleep schedule made it even worse. Been taking walks and working out, it is the only thing that makes me feel normal. I dont expect much out of it, and again, I always have the feeling of disappointment at the end of each walk. Live I never arrived anywhere good. CPTSD doesnt help either. Its the reason for why I lost the "hyperactivity" part. Physical trauma sat me for good. Life would probably have been easier if it weren't for that.

@MelvinIsMerlin 2 ай бұрын

@conceptofeverything8793 I agree with walks and exercise, but the meds seem to do just as much harm as good. I've tried them all, and I'm pretty sure I'm best without any of them.

@Get__StuffDone 2 ай бұрын

Maybe Google vitamin deficiency that causes depression. Watch the video called DIAGNOSING AND TREATING VITAMIN B 12 DEFICIENCY, that title exactly. The guy in the yellow shirt is a doctor who describes a long list of mental health and physical health symptoms that happen and natural ways to fix it. The video is really important. ❤

@Dietconsulting 2 ай бұрын

@@Get__StuffDone B12 levels should be 350pmol/L to be certain there is no deficiency. I look at MCV to give me clues

@Enjoytheshow435 Ай бұрын

We are left with Reddit anecdotes, which helped me save my eyesight from declining more on Wellbutrin. I would have never made the connection between the rapid decline of my eyesight and an NDRI like Wellbutrin. That’s why Citizen science should be encouraged. Hell, I’ve learned more from Reddit and from your informative channel than from my doctor I pay, and who doesn’t know that Wellbutrin is also a nicotinic receptor antagonist that can make adhd executive function and working memory deficiency systems worse, cause brain fog and negatively affect verbal fluency. On Wellbutrin, my writing level in English dropped multiple levels. I was expressing myself in very simple sentences and couldn’t recall any advanced or sophisticated vocabulary (English is my third language) Wellbutrin shouldn't be given as a mild adhd stimulant med!

@DrJohnKruse 29 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing your experience with Wellbutrin. I just wanted to clarify whether you had been on any form of nicotine (cigarettes, vaping, other) before the Wellbutrin? I'm trying to sort out whether your reaction was a direct response to Wellbutrin, or the result of a Wellbutrin/ external nicotine interaction.

@Enjoytheshow435 29 күн бұрын

@@DrJohnKruse no. I wasn’t a smoker nor on any nicotine product. I was on Wellbutrin only and it worked so good for depression, anxiety and procrastination. Best med I’ve tried for that purpose but I couldn’t verbalize my thoughts or recall the name of things. My aha moment was when I was asked to mention a state starts with the letter K and I froze. I’m usually sharp and never speechless (as most of adhd). Ended up quitting after six months. Now I can speak again:)

@Dietconsulting 2 ай бұрын

I wonder if those who have a bad response to stimulants actually have cPTSD which i know from my work with trauma patients looks a LOT like ADHD. The focus effect of meds doesnt make my body any less noisy (co-morbid dyspraxia), so I still move a lot. SSRIs make me as numb as hell even at low doses. My sweet combination is venlafaxine and wellbutrin. My spouse also has ADHD and his combination is welbutrin and mirtzipine.

@DrJohnKruse 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, certainly some of those with bad responses to stimulants have cPTSD or even more simple anxiety disorders. I've seen individuals with Panic Disorder who have been misdiagnosed with ADHD.

@ragdollkid1338 2 ай бұрын

I'm the same with SSRI

@CamStubbs 2 ай бұрын

Appreciate the balanced information 👌 investigating whether at 38 I should go for diagnosis and start medications. My GP has suggested I should. I worry that my case is more about trauma and brain injury than ADHD. My past experience with SSRI’s wasn’t good. At one point I started getting electric shocks feeling things in the back of my head. I may try stimulants but definitely not going back on SSRI’s. Going looking for your other video on weed and adhd 😅

@derekpmoore 2 ай бұрын

Developmental trauma disorder does result in lasting brain changes aka brain damage.

@hotrodsurplus 2 ай бұрын

I did at 33 and it's one of the better things I've done for myself. Regarding trauma, the symptoms (hypervigilance, etc.) can present as ADHD; however, understand that it's likely that a person affected with the disorder will suffer significant trauma as a result of the symptoms. And yeah, I have TBI in my past, one that put me in the hospital for a few days. Even if it isn't ADHD, a good therapist can help you heal some of that trauma and learn healthier coping mechanisms. Meds can help, but honestly they aren't worth much unless you put in the work and learn how to minimize the impact. As they say, pills aren't skills. Disclosure: I'm a stoner. Lol. But I treat that with great responsibility because it affects the temporal lobe, which is the executive part of the noggin, which is also affected by the disorder.

@DrJohnKruse 2 ай бұрын

There can be a lot of overlap between symptoms of trauma and of ADHD, so getting a thorough evaluation seems reasonable - and doesn't commit you to any further treatment if you don't like the options offered. People with ADHD are more prone to brain injury than those in the general population, and brain trauma itself can replicate symptoms of ADHD. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rJ-iYLRo1p6pfo0.html The brain zap sensation appears much more closely associated with SSRI than any other class of medications (most often as an element of withdrawal), so having it with an ADHD doesn't mean it would be particularly likely response with other medications.

@robgordon001 2 ай бұрын

Good information. You might consider investing in a teleprompter as you never look directly into the camera.

@DrJohnKruse 2 ай бұрын

I appreciate the helpful feedback.

@CamStubbs 2 ай бұрын

@@DrJohnKruse also voice isolation(Mac built in voice isolation works pretty well), gain down & boost/level in editing, if the background noise is still apparent start trimming the high band till eliminated … I trim high end till it starts eliminating the high s’s and it takes care of any of my stimming sounds 😘

@ragdollkid1338 2 ай бұрын

Have you thought he may be autistic and finds that difficult?

@susan507 2 ай бұрын

@dr.johnkruse. Thank you so much for the generous sharing of your expertise. I have a weird experience that no one seems able to help with. I am late 40s, perimenopausal, on HRT. I have recently been diagnosed with ADHD. Tried Vyvanse, but made me feel very odd. Short acting dexamphetamine seems much better. But some days I feel too sedated and spacey. Other days feels great. Often the first dose of the day feels most spacey (say2.5 2.5 or 5 mg), zoned out and poor memory. but then if I take a higher dose of at 7.5 mg or 10 mg later in the day (at 11am and 3pm) and my head becomes clear, and I have good focus. I’m confused by all of this. Wondering if higher dosages will help (particularly the morning) will help, or whether I should give up. Thanks in advance

@brandi_whine 2 ай бұрын

I’m 41 and…yeah 🤦🏼‍♀️

@DrJohnKruse 2 ай бұрын

I can't provide medical advice without having evaluated you, but my thought would be for someone in a similar situation, that unless you are having problematic side effects, then it makes sense to try a higher dose to see if you benefit from it. Most people who have ADHD have significant day to day variations in severity of symptoms. One common contributor is the quality and timing of sleep the night before. But there are clearly additional variables, that so far we aren't very good at identifying.

@susan507 2 ай бұрын

@@DrJohnKrusethanks so much for your response. I think I need to find someone locally who can help with titration. I’d be very interested in a future episode on the impact of changing hormones on stimulants and your experience clinically of adapting dosage throughout the month. Many thanks!

@mr_lemma 2 ай бұрын

Hello Dr. Kruse! Do you have any thoughts on selective MAO-B inhibitors for ADHD? Efficacy (in latest light that MAO-B is apparently not in the business of breaking down dopamine)? Safety (no tyramine syndrome apparently)? Combining with other medication like stimulants, atomoxetine, buspirone?

@DrJohnKruse 2 ай бұрын

I'm not sure that MAO-B's role in dopamine catabolism has been definitively determined yet. I would only use them cautiously with other agents.

@Dietconsulting 2 ай бұрын

I felt great on moclobamide but tanked when I encountered stress into a major depressive disorder. Venlafaxine and Wellbutrin in combination works for me

@mr_lemma 2 ай бұрын

@@Dietconsulting moclobamide is not relevant, since it's MAO-A, not MAO-B inhibitor. Nevertheless, I'm happy you've found a combo that's working for you!

@shaielkarif-ty5qn 2 күн бұрын

hi john,i have adhd inattentive,and i try adderral with wipex and it was not ,mentally healthy well for me after this i take startara and it didnt help me with concentration what do you recommend me to do from ur experience,thanks

@DrJohnKruse 7 сағат бұрын

I can't make any specific medical recommendations when I don't have a doctor/patient relationship. Many people with ADHD have to go through a trial and error process to find what works for them; right now we don't have a lot of good predictors that indicate what would be a good match for any individual.

@shaielkarif-ty5qn 6 сағат бұрын

@@DrJohnKruse i saw ur movie u talking about wellbutrin i think i need to try it because its non stimulant and what u said its a trial and error process.. for someone with anxity and adhd

@Truerealism747 2 ай бұрын

Do ADHD meds make autism OCD worse what you see if you have both.awaitung to try for fatigue fybromyalgia symptoms

@nenadcubric2663 2 ай бұрын

Try L-Theanine start low with 100 mg

@annak6537 2 ай бұрын

see a doctor to find answers to your questions. You’re not going to get a free medical consultation on KZfaq.

@Truerealism747 2 ай бұрын

@@annak6537 seen many all day different nothing to.lose they no more on here even my own go told me to.do this

@Truerealism747 2 ай бұрын

@@annak6537 seen many all say different nothing to.lose they no more on here even my own gp told me to.do this this doctor sees more than general doctor

@Truerealism747 2 ай бұрын

@@nenadcubric2663has it worked for you thanks try that😊

@conceptofeverything8793 2 ай бұрын

Mirtazapine is absolutely awful, despite being prescribed for sleep issues and should be halfway clear 10 hours after ingestion. Chloroprotixen I took one pill, it made me feel demotivated and more nervous. Didnt take any more due to that. My psychiatrist is an idiot. I am self diagnosed. Scoring 77/100 on CAARS while taking the test objectively. About 120-130 IQ if any relevant Also levodopamine increases anger issues in ne.

@ragdollkid1338 2 ай бұрын

I found mirtazepine good for my sleep issues but just left me sleepy in the morning SSRIs did nothing for me but make me feel mentally numb

@conceptofeverything8793 2 ай бұрын

@@ragdollkid1338 are you hyperactive or mixed?