Whispers from the Archives | Flakpanzer IV ‘Zerstörer 45’ and Flakpanzer IV ‘Ostwind II’

Рет қаралды 46,639

Күн бұрын

In the later stages of the Second World War, the Germans lost control over the skies, and their ground forces had to endure extensive enemy air attacks that decimated German logistics. The use of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns based on half-track chassis offered some way to fight back, but these were themselves highly vulnerable, as they lacked proper armor protection. Because of this, armored anti-aircraft vehicles based on a tank chassis were desirable. Starting from 1944, the German focus was on producing such vehicles based on the Panzer IV chassis, which led to the development of the Flakpanzer IV 2 cm (0.78 in) Flak 38 Vierling, known as the Wirbelwind (Whirlwind). Its 3.7 cm (1.45 in) armed Ostwind (Eastwind) cousin sacrificed a higher rate of fire for a heavier punch.
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Article:
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Sources:
Zerstörer 45:
K. Hjermstad (2000), Panzer IV Squadron/Signal Publication.
Engelmann-Scheibert, H. A. Koch, O. W. v. (1978) Renz Flak Auf Dem Gefechtsfeld Podzun-Palla-Verlag
D. Nešić, (2008), Naoružanje Drugog Svetsko Rata-Nemačka, Beograd
P. Chamberlain and H. Doyle (1978) Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two - Revised Edition, Arms and Armor press.
Walter J. Spielberger (1982). Gepard: The History of German Anti-Aircraft tanks, Bernard & Graefe
Ian V.Hogg (1975). German Artillery of World War Two, Purnell Book Services Ltd.
T. L.Jentz and H. L. Doyle (1998). Panzer Tracts No.12 Flak selbstfahrlafetten and Flakpanzer
T. L.Jentz and H. L. Doyle (2010). Panzer Tracts No. 12-1 - Flakpanzerkampfwagen IV and other Flakpanzer projects development and production from 1942 to 1945.
Walter J. Spielberger (1993). Panzer IV and its Variants, Schiffer Publishing Ltd.
D. Doyle (2005) German military Vehicles, Krause Publications.
H. F. Duske, T. Greenland and F. Schulz (2005) Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind and Ostwind, Nuts and Bolts vol.13
Ostwind II:
K. Hjermstad (2000), Panzer IV Squadron/Signal Publication.
Engelmann-Scheibert, H. A. Koch, O. W. v. (1978) Renz Flak Auf Dem Gefechtsfeld Podzun-Palla-Verlag
D. Nešić, (2008), Naoružanje Drugog Svetsko Rata-Nemačka, Beograd
P. Chamberlain and H. Doyle (1978) Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two - Revised Edition, Arms and Armor press.
Walter J. Spielberger (1982). Gepard The History of German Anti-Aircraft tanks, Bernard & Graefe
Ian V.Hogg (1975). German Artillery of World War Two, Purnell Book Services Ltd.
T. L.Jentz and H. L. Doyle (1998). Panzer Tracts No.12 Flak selbstfahrlafetten and Flakpanzer
T. L.Jentz and H. L. Doyle (2010). Panzer Tracts No. 12-1 - Flakpanzerkampfwagen IV and other Flakpanzer projects development and production from 1942 to 1945.
Walter J. Spielberger (1993). Panzer IV and its Variants, Schiffer Publishing Ltd.
D. Doyle (2005). German military Vehicles, Krause Publications.
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Music by @WhiteBatAudio
An article by Marko P.
Narrated by Sosoniaru
Edited by @BattlehammerWoT
Sound edited by Sosoniaru

Пікірлер: 69

@JGCR59 4 ай бұрын

One thing that is always ignored about flak vehicles is ammo feed. In an enclosed vehicle reloading the anti-aircraft guns becomes even more problematic than with a stationary gun. The Flakvierling had 20 round mags for each gun that needed to be replaced. The 37mm worked similarly to a Bofors gun with feeder clips (6 rounds I think) so it actually needed fewer crewmen than a 20mm quad to maintain a steady rate of fire. The 30mm Mk 103 were belt fed so the crew could be reduced even further, same as with Kugelblitz

@alexzenz760 4 ай бұрын

Kugelblitz would had problems with ventilation

@BartJBols 4 ай бұрын

That is not as much an issue as it may seem. AA vehicles don't need high sustained fire. they need short heavy bursts, and have ample time to reload after that.

@jpmtlhead39 4 ай бұрын

In 1984 i did bought on a flea market an original VHS tape with the title " WW2 German AA Weapons 1939-1945", where was a unique footage of a Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind in action during a very intense combat engagement with allied Fighters and Gliders during Operation Market Garden,and also had other footage of the quadruple 20mm AA cannons being used against Infantry at Anzio. Despite the Devastating High rate of fire, the 20mm lacked range and sometimes was ineffective unless several shells hit an aircraft at once. For that reasons a most Powerfull and with longer range weapon was needed,so the Flakpanzer IV Ostwind was put into action. The Ostwind was equipped with a single 3,7 cm Flak 37. But the Wirbelwind was still used against light Armor and Infantry,where those 4 20 mm cannons with the High rate of fire was Devastating.

@syinari8266 2 ай бұрын

do you think the footage of the tape is uploaded anywhere or do you have it uploaded anywhere?

@jpmtlhead39 2 ай бұрын

@@syinari8266 sorry but i also tried to find those footages everywhere and unfortunably nothing. It really upsets me the fact that i Lost that tape. Those footages were/are just spectacular and unique. They are somewhere for sure, but very hard to come by. Good luck on your search.👍

@Legitpenguins99 Ай бұрын

How did they find that footage before the Internet? Official war archives? Sounds like a cool story

@andrewphillips8341 4 ай бұрын

The flakpanzer iv 2 cm from tamiya was one of my favorite models.

@Big_Bantha 4 ай бұрын

Ah, yes. The wilburwind.

@JohnDiabol 4 ай бұрын

I died 😂

@jonowens460 4 ай бұрын

Wilburs' wind😮😂

@Drownedinblood 4 ай бұрын

I swear they gotta get better narrators or something.at least it's not ai voices.

@duncanmcgee13 2 ай бұрын

And in true Gaijin fashion theyve decided to frankenstein multiple models together to make something that never existed

@junahsong130 27 күн бұрын

How about the fact that they permit the is-6 to exist while the panther II isnt allowed to, also half the japanese latewar techtree for tanks and air shouldn't exist

@bread5020 22 күн бұрын

@@junahsong130the panther 2 is barely an actual tank, only a supposed attempt that never got into production the ho-ri variants did exist

@junahsong130 22 күн бұрын

@@bread5020 the panther II has an entierly complete chassis

@bread5020 22 күн бұрын

@@junahsong130 its only a chassis, it was never intended to be an actual tank, only a series of upgrades to the original panther that ultimately got abandoned, hell the maus is more real than the panther 2

@junahsong130 22 күн бұрын

@@bread5020 how the hell is the maus more real, it only has wooden mockups, the panther II had a fully built armored hull with working internals

@TheArklyte 4 ай бұрын

My main gripe with Ostwind II is the side by side arrangement that was seen only on Kriegsmarine LM44 mounts. Neither it, nor the new gun shield with two gun "tunnels" makes no sense. If anything, it should be Flak 43 "Zwilling" over and under with the retain gunshield of normal Ostwind.

@THX11458 4 ай бұрын

From what I've read, there are no original German sources documenting what barrel orientation the Ostwind-II had. As far as I've seen the only sources that give the side by side orientation aren't based on anything the Germans actually proposed but rather are contemporary conjectures. So, based on the army Flak guns mounted in previous Flakpanzers, I would guess the prototype probably had the normal 3.7cm Flak-43 Zwilling gun with the vertically oriented barrels.

@corsa701 4 ай бұрын

im pretty sure, the Zerstörer 45 was not operational at the end of the war. Sauckel ordered every functional vehicle from Ohrdruf to the so called Werralinie in March of 1945. In total, 3 AA- Tanks were sent to Creuzburg and Spichra to hold the lines against the Americans. One of them was the Kugelblitz, the other ones where the Möbelwagen- models. The armor plates, on which some are still there, make it rather unlikely, that other tanks where used. Other tanks they got, was a 20mm Flakvierling on Halftrack, one Jagdpanzer 38t which was destroyed because it was ordered to hunt and kill 7 US tanks which should have crossed the Werra river. Sadly, those 7 reported were around 200. Additionally, they got an old French tank which was used as a training vehicle until then and at least 3 PZ IV, as far as I know. So, if there were any other prototypes in use, it would be most likely recognized by the group of historians who worked on this topic.

@JGCR59 4 ай бұрын

Sauleiter Gauckel?

@corsa701 4 ай бұрын

@@JGCR59 korrekt.

@Michael.Mueller-Kampenbrinck 2 ай бұрын

@@JGCR59 Den kannte ich noch nicht ^^

@seanmatto2258 4 ай бұрын

Absolutely love Flak Panzers. Next should be SturmPanther

@JamesAce 4 ай бұрын

That 3 cm vierling would shred hot damn

@gummonster1 4 ай бұрын

I have used both models a bit in War Thunder and I definitely prefer the quad 20mm over the single or double 37mm. There is just more bullets going down range and even though they do not hit as hard as the bigger shells the high velocity armor piercing exceeds expectations and turns out to be very easy to aim at fast moving aircraft.

@explorer1968 3 ай бұрын

If those antiaircraft self-propelled guns were deployed and used by early 1943, and in sufficient numbers, they could have helped to reduce the total impact of Allied air bombardments.

@JohnSmith-pl2bk 27 күн бұрын

Love the Semple corrugated iron tank from New Zealand at the start of every vid.....

@alm5992 4 ай бұрын

Nice work explaining these! I would love to see something on the "Coelian" panther flak!

@ricktaylor4789 4 ай бұрын

Great video guys! I love German Flakpanzers!👍

@Komet1305 4 ай бұрын

8:11 MK in this case stands for Maschinenkanone, not Mark

@eltenda 4 ай бұрын

Excellent 😊

@arthurdirindinjr1792 3 ай бұрын

Looking at the parents of the Soviet ZSU series of mobile AA auto cannons

@christianchapellier153 4 ай бұрын

The very 1st flakpanzer was the flakpanzer1 Enough had been produced to have 1 full abteilung comited for barbarossa Flakpanzer 38(t) was produced far later

@nonamesplease6288 4 ай бұрын

The Flakpanzer 1 was a bodge. It was too small for it's crew and ammunition storage and it had weak armament and armour. The last of them disappeared into the Stalingrad cauldron.

@THX11458 4 ай бұрын

Technically true but but the Flakpanzer-I were only a handful field modified vehicles - not purposely manufactured to operate in a specific role. To quote Jentz: "The 2cm Flak-38 mounted on the Pzkpfw-I chassis were not purposefully designed and series produced weapon systems. They were created as field conversions from Munitionspanzer (I)s." [Jentz, Thomas, "Panzer Tracts No.12: Flak Selbstfahrlafetten & Flakpanzer," Darlington Productions (1998), pp.12-1]. So, as the video claims, the first official Flakpanzer was the 2cm flak-38(t) Ausf.L with 141 being manufactured from November 1943 to February 1944. About ninety were issued to twelve panzer divisions in France and the other roughly 50 sent to other panzer divisions in Italy. By contrast, it's estimated that only about two dozen Flakpanzer-I were field converted between March and May 1941. These were all issued to a single Flak Abteilung (614th).

@christianchapellier153 4 ай бұрын

Strange thing Tank encyclopedia says that the modification was done by stoewer not in the field and it was a very official development Yes only 24 were made But if I do remember correctly Only 40 ostwind have ever been produced Sorry to persist but the 1st flakpanzer is the flakpanzer 1 no doubt

@THX11458 4 ай бұрын

@@christianchapellier153 Jentz's sources are all primary - I'm not so sure about Tank Encyclopedia. And yes, I agree the Flakpanzer-I was the first flakpanzer, it just wasn't the first to be designed and mass produced for the specific role as designated by the army. So far as the Ostwind is concerned, according to Wa J Rü on 22/12/44 Flakpanzer production contract states a total of 90 Ostwind ordered completed with Deutsche Roehrenwerke having 100 Aufbau under contract SS 4902-0210-8818-/44 and Krupp-Gruson producing 90 Fargestell under contract SS 4902-0210-8914/43 (the extra ten Aufbau were for other Flakpanzer replacements). Stahlindustrie was to then assemble components into completed Ostwind. According to primary sources, 13 Ostwind were manufactured in January, 7 in February, 1 in March and an unknown number in May at the end of the war for a total of around 21. These were of course massed produced weapons systems who's manufacturers only failed to produce their quota of 90 due to the war ending in May of 1945. [source: Jentz, Thomas, "Panzer Tracts no.12-1: Flakpanzerkampfwagen-IV," Panzer Tracts (2010), pp12-1-34, 12-1-36]

@TanksEncyclopediaYT 4 ай бұрын

The scriptwriter skipped over the Flakpanzer 1 because it was a field modification undertaken by one unit rather than a serially produced vehicle

@nikbear 4 ай бұрын

Whether or not some of these things ever got past the prototype stage, they do look cool! I love the German addiction for shoving cannons on everything, be it planes, flakpanzers they just couldn't help themselves 😮😅

@tsclly2377 4 ай бұрын

the 2cm was a god ground raker by some memoir accounts.. I tend to think that a double barreled arraignment would have been more serviceable and had longer rates of actual fire.. running out of ammunition was a concern.

@milosmevzelj5205 4 ай бұрын

Good video. Just small thing; MK is not mark but Maschinen Kanone. Greetings.

@duncanself5111 4 ай бұрын

I used to love the Ostwind in Company of Heroes, it murders infantry

@Meyrlin1989 4 ай бұрын

You should reach out to flak panzer restoration project. They are currently fully restoring a whilberwind

@Oddball_E8 4 ай бұрын

That 30mm flakfierling would sit nicely in the German tech tree for WarThunder... it could replace the Kugelblitz (since that thing never went beyond wooden mockups, while this one seems to have possibly been built at least as a prototype)

@TanksEncyclopediaYT 4 ай бұрын

Kugelblitz was built and fought tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-germany-leichte-flakpanzer-iv-3-cm-kugelblitz/

@rudatkatzn9171 4 ай бұрын

The Kugelblitz existed. Even was ordered into service, but was blasted by allied artillery

@tnoomsk5897 2 ай бұрын

1 month later and the Zerstörer 45 was announced.

@fatdad64able 4 ай бұрын

Just to be clear. Under no circumstances would any one of these vehicles be involved in fending off allied daytime bombing raids with 4 mot bombers. That’s not their purpose.

@TobiasHinz1992 4 ай бұрын

We need the Zerstörer45 in war thunder

@markluizvidaurreta2081 4 ай бұрын

Plss. Make a video about the rare tank of the Bangladesh army the TYPE 62 SPH.

@ashbirk4681 3 ай бұрын

It’s like the Gepards daddy but looks more like a Shilka 👀

@Jagdtyger2A 4 ай бұрын

You did not cover the twin 30 mm Kugleblitz design

@TanksEncyclopediaYT 4 ай бұрын

We did, in a previous video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pcCWgLZk3Ne1fo0.html

@GeoPoliticsCommentry 4 ай бұрын

I believe one of the last of these is being refurbished to stock in Brandon Manitoba Canada

@Panzermeister36 4 ай бұрын

Borden Ontario

@GeoPoliticsCommentry 4 ай бұрын

@@Panzermeister36 TY dor correction

@alhemicaribastovani9029 4 ай бұрын

❤

@nicolasbusse 9 күн бұрын

Yet the Snail refuses to enable the MG34 on the front of the Ostwinds and Wirbelwinds in WT.... GAIJIN WHEN?!?!

@Sofus. 4 ай бұрын

@Stroopwaffe1 4 ай бұрын

I have a copy of Achtung Panzer by Heinz Guderien.

@user-wx1iv1fw3d 4 ай бұрын

搞笑的是，德軍在1944年後期甚麼都很缺，唯一不缺的是想要打贏的心然後又甚麼都想要多一點，用來應對越來越多的敵人

@timengineman2nd714 4 ай бұрын

"For self defense" I'm pretty sure that any flak unit of 55mm or less would also use their AA gun(s) on attacking infantry! (I don't think that the 55mm ever got into production, although it was planned and likely in an advanced stage of development. The Soviets modified it slightly and it became their 57mm AA gun!)