A lot of this video is speculation, so keep that in mind!

you sound extraordinarily like that wizard in Dragonsreach....

The way I see it the Empire bribed the Jarls to sign the Concordat. This becomes even more obvious if you take in more of the dialogue. It went: Proventus: "And what harm is to let a few legionnaires to die in place of your own men" Balgruuf: "It seems cowardly." Irileth: "Was it cowardly to sign the White Gold Concordat, then?" Balgruuf: "...The jars weren't asked, we were told (to sign the concordat)." Proventus: "The chests of gold didn't hurt."

Empire loves their damed lists

Don’t be afraid of long videos we come because we enjoy them 😀

12:39 Tullius when the dragonborn sides with the stormcloacks

Great video as always! The money that the Proventus Avenici refers to, if the Thalmor were the ones who gave the money to Skyrim's Jarls, they could've been attempting to buy the loyalty of the Jarls since they pretty much rule their holds indepently of each other, divide & conquer. Buying off an enemy has worked in our own history, and we know there are quite a few Jarls who clearly shouldn't be in their positions; e.g. Jarl Layla Lawgiver of Riften - shes merely a figurehead in the Rift with no actual power since Maven Blackbriar holds the power in Riften, if you play the Imperial side in the Civil War questline and Maven becomes Jarl of Riften, you essentially only make her officially Jarl of Riften as she already had the power of Jarl all she lacked was title & Layla Lawgiver clearly doesn't care about her people in the Rift and would abandon them to die if the city was attacked by a dragon, bandits or other threats; if you listen to conversations between her and her steward, the steward tells Jarl Layla that she has a private carriage already prepared should Layla need to leave the city - she'd abandon her own people to die. There are many Jarls in Skyrim who are inept to rule their holds, the only decent Jarl is Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun at the beginning of the game he's the only one who hasn't picked a side in the civil war and is more interested in looking after his people in the city and in the outlying farms and villages. Its Ulfric Stormcloak that forces Balgruuf's hands in siding with the Empire, Ulfirc rejects Balgruuf's offer of duelling with Ulfric in the ways of their ancestors - Ulfric already duelled High King Torygg so whats the difference? Why risk the lives of your people when you could fight one on one, Ulfirc has his army fire catapults at Whiterun even though he has supporters in the city namely the Greymanes. Balgruuf even states just before the Battle that the city's walls are barely holding up as it is when he hears that the Stormcloaks have catapults.

I heard an interesting theory stating basically that Titus Mede knew that Hammerfell would succeed from the Empire, keep fighting on their own, and deprive the Thalmor of those southern Hammerfell regions and securing the Abecean Sea for the Empire and Hammerfell trade. The White-Gold Concordat may have looked quite appealing to the Thalmor, but that Hammerfell part was only in there for looks. That is why Titus Mede "abandoned" Hammerfell. It was an indirect blow to the Thalmor.

Wow, I found your channel very recently, and I'm amazed by it. I seriously admire all the work you put into your channel and the passion you have. You're among my favorite youtubers right now, and it seems it will stay that way. Thank you for all the incredible videos, you are much appreciated!

There is one piece of evidence that irrefutably proves that Tiber Septim had in fact ascended to Godhood and became the 9th Divine Talos. During the events of the Obilvon Crisis, the Hero of Kvatch saves Martin, the last of the Septim line. At one point of the main quest Mythic Dawn cult members steal the Amulet of King's, which Martin needs to relight the Dragonfires at the Imperial Temple, to end Mehrunes Dagon's invasion of Nirn. The Mythic Dawn worships Dagon believing that Nirn is his birthright to rule. The leader of the cult, Mankar Camoran fled with the Amulet through a portal to his personal pocket Realm of Oblivion. Martin is able to decipher part of an ancient text the Mysterium Xarxes, that in part states to open said portal and recover the Amulet, the blood of a Divine is required. The Hero of Kvatch is tasked with retrieving Tiber's armor from his tomb at Sancre Tor, which had his blood on it due to battle So that unquestionably proves that he did in fact ascend to Godhood, because the blood of a Divine was one of the needed requirements to open the portal, to deal with Mankar Camoran and get the Amulet back. Tiber's blood was one of the components used, and Martin successfully opens the portal. Tiber's blood obviously wouldn't have worked if he wasn't a Divine.

The chests of gold mentioned by the Steward in whiterun refer to a bribe given to the jarls to keep them haopy and not resist

I really respect that you can make The Empire look not as flimsy, weak and foolish as I saw it before

#TitusMedeDidNothingWrong

Imperial knowledge: you don‘t Start a war of you can‘t afford it Hitler: hold my beer !

For some reason alot of civilians don't understand military logistics and just how much of an undertaking it is to coordinate massive troop movements especially when relying on very basic transport(feet, naval vessels, etc). The Soldiers not being paid would be an issue but I'd imagine that those who are dedicated would still do their job because they know that, if they're successful, they will be compensated eventually and will treat it as a late paycheck. Think about it, single soldiers with no family to support back home will have very little need for money while on deployment if they're being supplied which ultimately brings us back to logistics, without that they'll run out of essentials and lose morale pretty quickly(which is a huge deal, you could have the greatest army the world has ever seen and still end up losing to a smaller less capable force when they're demoralized).

I don't think the Concordat was actually a serious thing, I believe that the Thalmor just drew up the most outrageous terms to provoke the Empire into war.

Tbf, the gold Proventio talks about was probably a bribe from the Empire to skyrim's jarls, to prevent them from succeding after the outlaw of Talos' worship

The money given to the Jarls was a bribe to ensure loyalty, Talos is heavily worshipped in Skyrim and their religion just got banned.. the dominion demanded tributes to further bankrupt the Empire.

The Thalmor would eventually notice Talos worship even if it was in secret, same happened in the Spanish Inquisition because the Monarchs knew of the heathens and forced its faith upon all its subjects. If the Thalmor who interferes in Empire business (as seen in Season Unending) it eventually, even if it would take years.. it would be harshly enforce the Talos worshipping ban.

In the case of Beyond Skyrim bruma, the Thalmor are probably, there because of the Stormcloak activity near the border. Added to the fact that there are a high percentage of Nords in bruma. And even then there's not a lot of Thalmor there's like four, and your first interaction with them is someone telling them to literally f*** off. So what you mean it doesn't seem like the Thalmor have a lot of power in Burma anyways. And they were probably station there in case Stormcloaks or Talos worshipers cross the border.

Well done man! You are one of the top 3 TES lore youtubers!

I never thought about the Thalmor being in places other than Skyrim not working, what you said makes a lot of sense. Great job, as always :)

Great video man, I think you know what video I wanna see, one on the graybeards of Skyrim

Always nice to wake up to a TES lore video. Once again, another wonderful video.

On my lunch break at work from making coffins and perfect timing for a #TES lore video. Kickass job as always

First time watching, great vid!! Will have to check out your other vids

Insomnia Team representing! Thanks for the video man!

I don't think you need to come up with some secret war reparations paid by the Thalmor to the Imperials in order to justify the "chests full of gold" thing. The Empire may not have a great understanding of Nordic culture, but you don't need to be a cultural savant to realize that declaring a region's patron saint non-canon is going to piss them off. Skyrim's rebellion is potentially catastrophic even at the time it ends up happening; if it had happened immediately following the war it would have split the Empire like an egg, which is probably what the Thalmor--who are far better at espionage than they are at open warfare--wanted. This makes getting the Jarls to keep their people in check, and, crucially, _not actually enforcing the ban_ a key matter of policy for the Empire in Skyrim in the years following the White-Gold Concordat. Moreso than rebuilding infrastructure, moreso than rebuilding the army, and certainly moreso than fixing any of the other provinces. Reinforcing the idea that the Thalmor were trying to provoke a rebellion in Skyrim (and thus demonstrating that the Empire had every reason to prioritize pacifying the Jarls over pretty much anything else at the time): -The ban on Talos worship in the Empire is not important to the Thalmor if they're planning on conquering the Empire. They can ban it all they like when the Emperor is dead and members of the Dominion sit in his stead. They clearly aren't planning on stopping their forward march at the borders defined post-Great War, so this must be a political move. -Ulfric was in direct contact with the Thalmor up to and during the Markarth Incident. This means that he was in direct contact with the Thalmor _while he was agitating for the reversal of the ban_. I don't see how you could possibly frame this as anything but the Thalmor using him as an excuse to place themselves as a police force within Skyrim, which then allowed them to begin abducting and murdering worshippers of Talos, nominally on the behalf of the Emperor. Nearly every Nord venerates Talos in some way, but until the Thalmor showed up they'd been able to continue worshipping him in secret without too much difficulty--again, the Empire was deliberately not enforcing the ban at first. -The Thalmor, as a police force in Skyrim, are now conflated with the Empire. The Imperials become tyrants, elf-lovers and murderers in the eyes of many common Nords. And although Ulfric becomes uncooperative after the Markarth Incident, he's still agitating on behalf of Talos worship--the perfect rallying point for anyone looking to fight against the Empire. The Thalmor _love_ this civil war. They want it continue for as long as possible, because it weakens two potential enemies--the warrior-like people of Skyrim, who would otherwise be a pain in the ass to conquer, and the Empire itself, who they _need_ weakened if they want to stand a chance against them in the next war. Even just losing the support of half the Nords within their own ranks would decimate the Imperial legions, and frankly, that's already happened now, regardless of whether the Imperials win the war or not. The Empire doesn't need to have received secret reparations in the war to feel it necessary to send gold to the Jarls, even if they are in the economic trashbin.

When you want to walk up to thalmor justicars with your Talos amulet and your blades and break every other rule in front of them

This talk to the Thalmor and beyond skyrim reminds me of another issue I have with that mod. Pale Pass is supposed to be completely blocked off by snow after an avalanche, that's the only reason why there's a civil war in Skyrim at all. There's only one legion present in Skyrim at the time, and they can't get reinforcements from Cyrodiil because Pale Pass is blocked off, but in beyond skyrim they've completely ignored this, the border crossing is totally clear of avalanches and nobody even acknowledges it, so why hasnt the Skyrim legion been reinforced and Ulfrics rebellion crushed? There's no reason for the empire to be evenly matched with the stormcloaks if Pale Pass is open. And yes, this info is in-game, there's a letter somewhere around Helgen I think.

I always understood the gold was from the empire to the nords to keep them on side, not from the thalmor

The Thalmor had some real nerve asking for all that stuff...I mean especially after they lost the Battle of Red Ring.

Could you do a video on what the imperials think about the outlaw of talos worship. In oblivion everyone was always saying “thank talos” but in Skyrim the imperials don’t seem to care anymore

Great take

It makes sense for thalmor to be in bruma but not all of cyrodiil bruma is home to the great chapple of Talos and with the concordat in place that city would be similar to Skyrim

If was the biggest mistake in my opinion. Fuck the Thalmor. TES 6 we need to defeat the Thalmor.

3:30 The main reason they wanted that gold Tribute from the Empire is to keep them Weak Financially, and hope for the inevitable rebellion of The empire...Making it much easier to deal with...When an empire is poor...people get pissed off..Simple Strife Tactic without iring a single shot

after finishing the civil war questline you should be able to kill the imposing sides camps including the legates instead of them still being marked as essential characters

Would you be able to do another video on more of the lesser known races of Tamriel? The Minotaurs? Kothringi? Giants? etc.

To quote Ferdinand Foch: "This is not a peace, it is an armistice for twenty years."

Good video.

12:38 That noise scared the shit out of me! I was just dosing off 😑

Worth noting that Ulfric was actually working for the Thalmor, and was a cooperative asset for them until the Markarth Incident, meaning that much of his disruptive behavior *must* be interpreted as the Thalmor purposefully sewing discord within the empire's borders and trying to push for civil unrest that will weaken the empire before the next great war.

Nice video

I wonder how would the Roman empire at the hight if their power would square up against the Dominion, I think of this because the imperials are undoubtibly based off the Romans. My guess is that they would put up quite the fight against the elven scum

Actually it does make sense in beyond Skyrim because the church of talks was converted to the church of Martin septim. This pissed off the dominion because they’re of the same bloodline.

Good video

The Thalmor want to "dismantle" Talos. Heh.

After ww1 did it make sense for germany to pay reparations?

the White Gold Concordat is extremely cruel but Emperor Titus did his best to reclaim the Imperial City during the battle of the red ring, making the treaty less harsher than it should be.

You know skyrim logo ? Its cracked Imperial logo. So.. yeah.. its meaning the weakened empire

Haha! I also just made a video about this. Great choice Imperial Knowledge!

Imperial knowledge, should you kill Titus mede or destroy the Dark Brotherhood?

Which videos of yours talk about the empire ramifications of winning? I'm in the midst of creating a deep dive civil war video and I'd love to hear your views on it

I feel like you’re missing importation geopolitical approximations of weakening the economic strength of a regional hegemon and rival, it substantially reduces their ability to invest in public or in this case feudal or private, infrastructure or raising a substantial militant threat - less money for the empire - less chance of direct and indirect conflict as long as the economy is made dependent and maintains a reasonable quality of life

In the name of the Jarl STOP RIGHT THERE!!!111

This Great War is well written!

The fact that the Imperial Jarls pretty much have to be at Elenwen's party doesn't exactly disprove that the Thalmor has carte blanche in Empire lands. And try to see the Talos ban from a religious perspective. Having been allowed to 'secretly' worship wasn't good enough.

5:40 maybe to secretly weaken the empire to start a civil by funding it ?

Our biggest mistake for sure. We will push back the thalmor!

Hello. I heard that White Gold Concordat bans alsow Mages Guild. Its tgat true?

But it makes sense that Thalmor is in Bruma in BS:B, since it citizens are mainly nord.

What about the Thalmor in Solstheim? I understand the Thalmor wanting to go to Skyrim to stomp out Talos, but why Solstheim?

NOTIFACTION SQUAD FK YEAHH THALMOR

It's easy keep the empire's coffers low so they cannot afford and uprising

By the way where do you get that intro music

If the emperor negotiated the treaty to not ban talos worship in exchange for thlamor paying less $$$ to them then stormcloaks would've never happened

Instead of a pentius oculatus agent it should be a member of the blades. Pentius Oculotus came after the war

I would suggest that the Thalmor wanted some peace or contributes (maybe). I could be completely wrong but here in America in the year 1846 to 48 there was a war against Mexico and America over land like Texas and Arizona. The war was short and I'm not going to get so far into that, America won the war against Mexico (could've just kept the land or whatever happened) instead America after the war still Payed Mexico for the property of the land and I would suggest maybe equal or contributions. Possibly alliance even temporarily as the Thalmor is doing

Hello Farangar

12:00 Man I understand why you're so mad but it's funny how Beyond Skyrim is so good to the point where people think its canon 😭

If Thalmor paid Skyrim's jarls gold then they did it to start a rebellion against the Empire. It's obvious, they demand to reject the cult of Talos what makes proud Nords angry (As Tiber Septim know also as Talos was Nord not as you said in one of the films breton). And then they support Skyrim in rebelion. Skyrim was never as rich as south, and as you said you need gold to go on war. If you play with the Stormcloaks and attack General Tulius he says to Ulfric something like" You know that Thalmor wanted this?". On the first glympse they supported the enemy but in overall they had weaken the Empire greatly :)

Anyone ever told you you sound strikingly like Farengar?

I think the Aldmeri Dominion wanted the payment to keep the Empire weak or make it weaker.

The Do inion might have wanted the money for reparations for what Talos and the Numidium did to them

the most important issue is the wish of the Thalmor on destroying Mundos, thats why they want to banish Talos wich is one of the world anchors...

If this speculation is true, i think the concordant was completely worth it. You cant really control the tribes of hammerfell in its civil-war state anyway at this time and I wouldnt care too much about the ban of Talos worship. Yes, Talos united Tamriel and even is said to have achieved chim, but he not more of a divine than Vivec and Alessia IMO

lots of Skybabies on here play morrowind in it you meet Talos or wolf as he is known there the Empire must fall in order to build it anew as it has multiple times in tamrelic history

bUt dUdE bEyoNd sKyRiM iS cAnOn

Why was the empires economy so bad before the war

Alec is that you?

It actually makes sense that the Dominion would pay reparations. It’s common in our world that reparations would be paid. The only thing different is that there wasn’t a specific winner or loser. People can say the Empire lost the war due to the Dominion-favored Treaty, but the demands made for the Hammerfell territory were already under Dominion control. Imperial Knowledge brings up a good point that the Empire did leave troops behind as well. Think of it more as a Cold War. The US had troops in Korea and Vietnam, but the US wasn’t at war. It was a hotspot. I can elaborate more if needed. But overall, the reparations makes sense, the Dominion and Empire had no idea what was next at the time of the treaty. If the Dominion had the resources, this would have zero impact on then.

Spanish Inquisition.

Didn't they give Skyrim money to appease them for the whole Talos ban? I figured it was to avoid a Civil War in the first place. And I doubt the Dominion paid anything. They clearly won the war (it's addressed as the Empire surrendering), I'd even say they dominated the war since the Empire is so desperate to avoid another one that even decades later, they've reduced themselves to licking the Thalmor's boots and are willing to risk losing one of their provinces out of fear of border security. Meanwhile the Dominion clearly doesn't care if they go to war again, they're practically baiting the empire into doing it. With how much effort they've put into the Talos ban, I don't think conquering or destroying the empire ever mattered that much. All that matters is removing Talos worship. Everything else is just a bonus. If it was about conquering or destroying the empire, I don't think they would have ever given them the choice to begin with.

Dude, no one says that beyond skyrim is canon.

I think The Empire made the right move sigining The White Gold Concordant. I mean The Aldmeri Dominion and The Empire were both beaten pretty badly and if they kept fighting they'd probably have wiped each other out. So in my opinion the White Gold Concordant was the best move at the time as both sides of the war were pretty beaten.

If I was mede I would rather have my head on a spike in summerset. No way would I bow before a elf and betray my Empire.

I still think the empire could've won if they kept fighting.

It would be smart for the Thalmor to drive a wedge between Hammerfell/Skyrim and The Empire. Those two provinces are basically the muscle and sword of The Empire. Ulfric was a tool. He must die for the sake of Mankind which is propped up by The Empire.

what fucking accent is this