My theory about Jesus and Christianity can be summarized in a quote by Kermit the Frog: "Somebody thought of it, and someone believed it".

As an exmormon turned atheist (funny story that) I LOVE that the most honest apologists recognize the problem the rise of Mormonism, with it's extraordinary and supernatural claims, creates for many of their own arguments.

Oh my God that part where you put all the apologists using the same analogy at once is hilarious 😂

I love how Paul is just moderating a discussion between christians about one of their core believes and not dismantling Dr Loke himself. So, I love this style and would love to see more of this :D Or as Matt likes to say: You apologists find a common explanation and I'll get to it when you made up your minds.

Jesus hiding in the bushes to mess with his disciples is now my favorite Jesus

Lots of people saw Jesus risen , nearly as many as saw Elvis alive in 2020.

Paul, i love this format of letting theologians do the debating!

Dr Allison, an honest human, who has enough integrity to doubt his own belief system. Those of who once did but no longer believe understand the effort and the rewards. Best wishes sir!

I loved hearing all the apologists saying the same thing at the same time! Your lack-of-common-sense scholarship is far superior to that of the apologists and PhDs you site. You deserve an honorary doctorate for your work.

_"They could have fact-checked Paul's claim"_ It's worth pointing out how far away Corinth is from Judea.

"After you've heard two eyewitness accounts of an accident, it makes you wonder about history." - - Dave Barry

And nobody would ever lie about seeing something so they could fit in and be held as special in the greater group

Amazing work Paul. This must have taken you forever and it's much appreciated.

Reading the letters will tell you what the writer was trying to convince his readers, not necessarily what they actually believe.

When I was five, I got lost in a grocery store and was crying. But Paulogia took me to the manager, who was a nice old man in a red vest, and reunited me with my mother, Marilyn Monroe. I may have the details wrong, but I'm sure this happened.

You're back in form here Paul. I love this style of video from you. This one especially made me laugh out loud when you did the comparison of the US voters who believe the election was totally fraudulent vs those who think it was wholly accurate and fair contrasted with the idea that in ancient Palestine they could easily verify information, so obviously what they believed must be real. That little comparison right there I think is the best case you can make for how easy it is to convince large groups of people to believe something untrue. Whether you believe it was fraud or not, you can not deny that it means a large portion of people believe something completely utterly untrue that they can verify themselves.

The irony of a theologist talking about people lacking common sense... right after saying that the writers probably believed what they wrote, as if that is somehow evidence that it's true...

Dale Allison is so deeply, unwaveringly transparent and authentic, it's actually startling. He brings an intellectual honesty to the Christian philosophy forum that I believe is only matched by Paulogia.

I don’t remember hearing “common sense” as a criterion in an academic discussion. “Common sense” just means “what seems obvious to me” as far as I can determine. It has nothing to do with science or historical accuracy.

Wow, that Mormon analogy is spot on! What ELSE could explain facts about Joseph Smith except that he was a true prophet of God? Brilliant.

I live in Hong Kong. I’m going to go and have a word with this man.

“Ifitalkreallyfastnoonewillnoticeeverythingimsayingisnonsense...”

It's amazing that Andrew Loke managed to become a doctor. Or rather, it says a lot about christian education and the value of theological degrees that someone with such weak reasoning skills could get such a diploma...

I have a very clear memory of talking to a school friend while in my year 11 high school maths class - talking about the death of Lady Diana, the ex. wife of Prince Charles. In my mind can clearly see my friend sitting at the desk in front of me and to my left, turning around to chat about lady Di's death. The problem is that my high school year 11 was in 1987, *but lady Diana died in 1997* ... 10 years later, long, long after we had both graduated from university! Even knowing that this high-school memory was certainly false hasn't changed it's clarity. It's weird that my memory still hangs on to a very vivid recollection that cannot possibly be true. There is simply no way that we were both discussing Lady Diana's death in a high school maths classroom 10 years before she died, even though my memory still insists that we did exactly that. _Memories are weird._ I don't trust my own memories, let alone other people's memories.

If I, living in Canada, were to be told "500 people in Perth Australia saw the risen Elvis" it would be easier for me to journey half way around the world to look for those witnesses, even with COVID travel restrictions, than it would have been for a 1st century Corinthian to travel to Palestine.

What I have read elsewhere: You can ask people who were physically on the rooftop with the Beatles in 1969, and you'd get different answers to what songs they remember were actually played.

Its not even a "historical fact" because we have a writing that someone thinks someone said that they beloved. Its so far removed from the person that its laughable.

I was at that Zappa concert. I clearly recall the 25 min dance remix of Stinkfoot. Pretty sure I saw you there Paul.

Paul great video, not that I expect anything less from you. But shout out to the Paulogia community. You all have helped me learn and are always kind. You all have extreme tolerance for crazy or rude commenters. An absolute reflection of Paul and his way of argument

"Did Jesus have intestines?" That guy was two seconds away from saying, "Did Jesus shit."

I love how theists talk about “common sense” before arresting magic is a more reasonable explanation. Lol

"They could have fact-checked Paul's claim" say people who often turn off youtube comments

...enjoyed the Zappa reference, I think his guitar killed my mother.

Another great video! Dr. Allison seems so much more intellectually honest than the other apologists and theologians you cover.

That's actually a great question from Dr Allison. I had never considered where Jesus was between his appearances. Looking back to when I was a Christian, I think I thought of the post-resurrection Jesus as more of a ghost that was able to make himself solid for periods of time. I would never have described it that way when I was a Christian ofc, but that was kind of how I understood it.

Really solid video! Thanks for putting in so many great sources. I appreciate you championing reason.

Zappa not only did a show in 1993, he performed "This Town Is A Stale Tuna Sandwich" with the 500 providing the chorus.

I'd love to see Dr Dale Allison being interviewed by PineCreek.

Beautifully and meticulously constructed, as always.

I thought I saw Jesus once. Turned out it was my brother that hit me in the head with a frying pan...

Paul, your analogy of the 2020 election is spot on.

If there were an "Academy Award" for best Moderated Christian Apologetic Discussion, there would be a huge golden statue next to your monitor right now. Well done !

Dr Allison is so intellectually honest it's hard to imagine him being a Christian for much longer.

"One unerring mark of the love of truth," wrote John Locke in 1690, "is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant." -as quoted by Carl Sagan in The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark

Wait a minute, Paulogia is the only eye witness... Or was I not listening closely enough.

I wonder what a discussion between Dr Andrew Loke and Ben Shapiro would sound like - probably like an attempt to enter the Guinness Book of Records for the most words spoken within a certain time limit.

31:12 Yes, reject the totally ridiculous idea that someone hallucinated and adopt the adult, rational view that god did it with magic

Thank you for the reference to the book ”Witness for the Defense” by Elizabeth Loftus that deals with the vagaries of memory. I have now downloaded it and have started reading it. I, personally, have a false memory, a memory that has been proven to be false. I have a distinct memory of my mother coming upstairs to my bedroom with a bowl of soup for me when I was sick. I recently re-visited the house of my memory and was shown, by its current owner, that the house does not, and never has had, an upstairs. And yet that memory still resides inside me, equally true, yet impossible.

"Total Loser" is not something a mature adult would say about others.

I love this format! ❤ I cal it "The Sidney Sheldon Switcheroo". In one of her novels* the heroine tricks two chess champions to play each other, both thinking that they are playing her. Nicely played, Paulogia!👍 *if tomorrow comes

we all know and love 1995 Risen Zappa, you just don't know and love him due to your hardened heart.

I want to know who saw all the other “zombies” walking around at the same time. Why don’t xtians talk about that very much.

the best answer to the Doyal fallacy is “Sherlock Holmes observed that once you have eliminated the impossible then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible.” “There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.” ― Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

34:15 - 35:00 This portion absolutely killed my brain cells. This is simply one of the most ridiculous claims I have ever heard.

These guys remind me of little boys in a sandbox arguing about the tooth fairy. It's magic and magical thinking all the way. The fact that the known universe is 13.8 billion years old is enough awe and amazement for me.

This video is brilliant, well done Paul.

@Paulogia: After reading Ehrman's book, "Jesus before the gospels", I get the feeling you may have read it. If so, what do you think about it? Seems like some of your videos draw on it for the "memory" aspect of Christianity.

Yes a long Paul vid. I was getting pissed thinking a vid was dropping and it was just a 20 second tease lol

Call it schadenfreude, but there's nothing better than the look on an apologist's face when a biblical scholar is telling him what they really have.

Paul is my favourite former Christian turned atheist as he is considered, intelligent, polite and makes well reasoned and supported arguments. Keep up the great work Paul.

Hi all! I'm coming from Loke's analysis of this video in Capturing Christianity. Paulogia's editing of MacDowell is even WEIRDER and MORE SERIOUS than Loke pointed out in that video. Paulogia mixes (in 12:58) two clips from completely different times of MacDowell's interview with Frank Turek (see here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eM5ketB93q3GZ3U.html ). I've checked the full interview and he's mixing a moment from the beginning (around minute 5) with a moment of the end (around minute 35 or so). This is what MacDowell says in both segments, in context and with the timestamps so you can all check by yourselves. Also, I'll highlight IN ALL CAPS what made it into Paulogia's edited clip: (1) "OF THE 12, THERE'S ONLY 2 THAT WE HAVE VERY HIGH CONFIDENCE HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, AND THAT'S PETER AND JAMES THE BROTHER OF JOHN, JAMES THE ZEBEDY. And I would say outside of the 12, James the brother of Jesus and Paul we also have high confidence. And then there's 2 I would put in that middle range that are arguably more probable than not but the sources are less and are a little late: and that would be Thomas and Andrew. And the rest of the 12, what's left of them, I think that's 8, I don't think we know where History ends and legend begins" (5:07-5:56). (2) The second moment is from a longer segment at the end where Turek has asked MacDowell to share the sources for the "4 or 5" that we know with some certainty were martyred. After Sean goes through the evidence for Peter, James the brother of John, Paul, James the brother of Jesus, Andrew and Thomas, he starts comparing this with the lack of evidence for Bartholomeus' martyrdom. And THEN he says, look at this: "That's where I say with Andrew and Thomas maybe there's an interesting case there, THE OTHERS I'M NOT EVEN SURE WE KNOW AT ALL WHAT HISTORY IS OR WHERE LEGEND BEGINS" (38:05-38:19). And THAT'S what Paulogia spliced together. This has had me thinking. WHY ON EARTH would Paulogia merge a clip from minute 5 with another one from minute 38 of the same interview, without letting his audience know he was doing that? They are 30 minutes apart from each other! But notice WHAT did he merge. First, he edited out the second part of the first clip, where Sean says "of the rest of the 12, what's left of them, I think that's 8…". If you subtract 8 from 12, you've got 4, and not 2, as Paulogia was trying to imply with the "Peter and James" part of the quote. AND THEN, of the second clip, he keeps the second part that begins with "the others…", but leaving out what Sean says immediately before about Andrew and Thomas, which also hurts his case!!! He plays only the part where Sean talks about Peter and James, and then he adds another part that begins with "the others", but omitting all the context that shows that this "the others" does not mean "all except Peter and James". Think what you want about Paulogia's motivations, I'm sure there's no ill-intent behind this, but it's sloppy and misleading at best. Also, if Cameron or any apologist had done anything remotely similar to this, I'm sure Paulogia and his fans would be (rightly) outraged. PS. All of this, leaving aside Loke was arguing that the early christians and disciples were "willing to die", not that they had actually died martyrs.

So during the resurrection of Jesus zombie saints rose from death and roamed the streets of Jerusalem. Who were these zombie saints and what happened to them ? The dead coming back to life would have been the biggest event in history and documented in secular writings, not just biblical scripture.

17:30 Paulogia says that the information about the 500 is not coming from Paul but from an unknown author of the creed. I don't think that's right. One of the reasons why scholars think the passage is a creed in the first place is because it has a poetic structure (probably to aid memory). But the line about the 500 actually breaks that structure. So it seems this is something Paul himself added to the creed and it wasn't originally in it. It's kind of obvious the line doesn't fit if we map the poetic structure: ὅτι Χριστὸς ἀπέθανεν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν κατὰ τὰς γραφάς, καὶ ὅτι ἐτάφη, καὶ ὅτι ἐγήγερται τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τῇ τρίτῃ κατὰ τὰς γραφάς, καὶ ὅτι ὤφθη Κηφᾷ, εἶτα τοῖς δώδεκα. *Ἔπειτα ὤφθη ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐφάπαξ ἐξ ὧν οἱ πλείονες μένουσιν ἕως ἄρτι τινὲς δὲ ἐκοιμήθησαν. * Ἔπειτα ὤφθη Ἰακώβῳ, εἶτα τοῖς ἀποστόλοις πᾶσιν. that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. *Then he was seen by more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. * Then he was seen by James, then by all the apostles.

I have no qualms with religious folks. I have qualms with people who won't engage in honest discussions. Love the video P. Very patient

The other day I went to some video Logicked had debunked and I saw a comment there in which a woman said, "I was so happy when I saw my dead parents." After a few lines it appears that she saw them in a dream, but to her it didn't make any difference: she saw them and talked to them. This is a modern person writing on a computer. How do you think a first century peasant would interpret such an experience?

The kids in the Jesus Camp movie is my go-too example of manufactured experience 😓

Wonderful to see scholars-who-happen-to-be-Christians be so intellectually honest about issues of doubt and of changing one's mind. Refreshing. I wish Christian scholars would do the same.

Glad to see Paul's coverage on what was an interesting exchange between Licona and Allison. I think my favourite line from their conversation was "I think your worldview interferes with your judgement as an historian". 😐😐😐

Sounds like Dale is just a few steps away from enlightenment, if only he has the courage to face it.

One must at least applaud dr. Loke for not going to milk the believers the same way AiG does.

Another great video, love the longform content

One of my pet peeves is that Christian apologists seem to be intimating but never claiming that the early Christians would present the same intellectual rigor, skepticism, and desire for proof that a modern person would (i.e., post enlightenment person familiar with the scientific method). It is very unlikely that, outside of Alexandria, Egypt, that there were many of these sorts of people around. Even prominent Roman historians were taking rumors of omens and miracles at face value. It is interesting that Christianity in Alexandria, where the ancient version of critical thinking was valued, does not seem to have gained any prominence until a century passes and the philosophical rigor in the religion had developed to the point that it was worth considering.

Nice editing.

It never fails to astound me how little actual support these biblical "scholars" have for their claims. Its almost always things like "someone said ____ " or "people believed _____ " or "its common sense" etc. Solid, verifiable, evidence is either never presented at all, said to demonstrate far more than it actually applies to, or completely pointless to the actual arguments. Just look at the way people "addressed" Paulogia's earlier videos on the topic... the most common "counter argument" was to either laugh then change topics, or attack his credibility. They have nothing of substance, and on some level they must know it.

Thanks for letting us know you did not speed him up. I was little pissed at you initially for overdoing it.

Thanks,Paul.You were very thorough and the format you used helped make it interesting.

They respond for 3hrs. you must have hit a nerve Paul. They couldn’t pronounce your name tho.

Non-sequitur and obscure reference of the day... For Halloween, 1987, I went as Bow-Tie Daddy.

This is definitely one of your best Paul. Very well done

"You would not find groups of people willing to die for what they believe is false" I'm baffled about why this point is so _constantly_ being brought up by so many people in so many videos. I don't recall ever seeing a single atheist use as an argument that there were groups of people willingly believing something they thought was wrong, of _course_ they thought they were right, the whole issue is that they _thought_ they were right, so how do we separate what they _think_ they know from what _actually_ happened? Of _course_ people can _think_ they're sure of things that are wrong, no one would argue that's not the case.

You say: "People Believe that Jesus Resurrected." To which I reply: "Facts, don't care about your feelings."

@11:10 Paulogia: "Quantaties of zero don't accumulate no matter how many you add." This is of course true, but start with a presupposition and presto... zeros quickly accumulate.

Dale Allison seems like a very well read and reasonable Christian. Andrew Loke seems to have the understanding of a newly converted Christian who had just been told the story of the resurrection and accepted it unquestioningly.

"Hyper-trust" I like that word...I have been accused of being too skeptical so it will be nice to play that card next time i hear it. Thanks Sean.

Wouldn't those 500 people that saw the Jesus tell their friends and family about their experience? Shouldn't their be tons of others writing and telling the story of what their friend/family member saw in the Risen Jesus?

Really enjoyed talking to you about this subject on the atheist experience thank you again Paul

One of your best videos with regard to content - but especially editing

Paul, your work is so important and so appreciated.

Good job Paul, this was an excellent video that exemplifies the very embodiment of showing how a mind on religion acts and reacts when the evidence found by actual scientific method research refutes all the things in the cults mythology. And it's a cult no matter how big it is, no matter what is claimed. If it was facts they were discussing then they'd be able to reproduce the evidence to support their own claims instead of believing and having faith.

Wondering if any professional Apologist is going to take on Licona's interview with Allison.

If the intro ever changes I'll be so heartbroken haha! Thank you for the video!!!

I thought I'd subscribed long ago and just realized I hadn't. So sorry! It's been remedied. Your content is amazing and so, so educational for me.

We have to ask ourselves if it's reasonable to believe that an all-powerful and omniscient creator of galaxies delivered all of his expectations, dictates, and his single most important soul saving message through the inspiration method via bronze age uneducated and bigoted goat herders while leaving no demonstrable trace of his existence and while permitting physical evidence that demonstrably negates his words.

"Ask for evidence & logic from a Christian and you will win the debate every time" - Chris Hitchens.

Fantastic video and totally worth watching it, despite the length. Thanks.

Brilliant edition and parallels between the scholars. Thank you Paul for your work!

Ever since I can remember, I have had the same dream where I am able to fly, now this pre dates Chris Angel but I fly like he did. Hands out to my sides, and feet together. I have dreamt this so many times that I started having a hard time separating it from reality and had to convince myself that it wasn't real! I have ADHD and remember stuff quickly and most often easily, however, it takes slowing down to fact check those memories and even then sometimes my thoughts are presented as a real memory despite the evidence to the contrary.

35 seconds ago! The last time I was this early the Lord was "risen".

Dr. Licona says that for him it's not that important to focus on the naturalistic explanations that doubters might come up with... Yet that is exactly what Christian apologist have wanted us to do for decades - "How do you explain all this if Jesus did not rise from the dead." Moving the goal posts! As to the 500 - it's not only thin and no answers can be found if asked - it is odd that not one of the Gospels mentions it given that this is a massive group of people to see Jesus at one time. It it clear that Paul most likely got this from Peter - the only other guy highlighted as the first to see Jesus - when he visited Jerusalem. As to the type of resurrection body that is an interesting motif because there were all kinds of arguments and ideas floating around that time. Paul seeks to try and answer this in his letter -what type of body does the resurrection come with? As to the mention that skeptics have things in their column that have parallels and the believe do not I quote the Devil's Dictionary on the definition of FAITH: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

Really enjoyed this Paul. Dr. Allison was a refreshing example of thoughtful and honest Christianity.