Whole Brain Emulation: The Logical Endpoint of Neuroinformatics?

Рет қаралды 35,235

14 жыл бұрын

Google Tech Talk
May 27, 2010
ABSTRACT
Presented by Anders Sandberg.
The idea of creating a faithful, one-to-one computer copy of a human brain has been a popular philosophical thought experiment and science fiction plot for decades. While computational neuroscience and systems biology are currently very far away from this goal, the trends towards large-scale simulation, industrialized neuroinformatics, new forms of microscopy and powerful computing clusters point in this direction and are enabling new forms of simulations of unprecendented scope. In this talk I will discuss current estimates of how close we are to achieving emulated brains, technological requirements, research challenges and some of the possible consequences.

Пікірлер: 52

@ZirconCode 14 жыл бұрын

Best one Yet!

@glitchp 14 жыл бұрын

Brilliant!

@flowewritharoma 12 жыл бұрын

The Logical Endpoint of Neuroinformatics is awesome

@eyhexs 14 жыл бұрын

i love it how towards the end he casually says that a softwared humanity would probably have a smaller enviromental footprint ':-| how cool is that

@artvladi 14 жыл бұрын

I am very upset that nobody had scanned and modelled a full copy of a worm or a fly. It is doable now with little money and would provide a very valuable feasibility info.

@McJellyToast 12 жыл бұрын

So what happens if a full living person's brain is scanned and placed into a robot, and the human and the robot meet each other?

@LordSlag 14 жыл бұрын

@jsymons1985 Yes, you're missing something: Remember, if a human brain can be restored to function with an intact personality after loss of all biological activity due to hypothermia, then an artificial brain can also "reboot" itself in the same way.

@badmephisto 14 жыл бұрын

I bet at least 95% of the Human Brain is concerned with things we do not care about at all from AI perspective: maintaining homeostasis, body/survival-related stuff, emotions... etc. I'm surprised this did not come up. Also surprised that the body problem is down-played so much. A brain without the correct input it expects will most likely not work too well. And what is the simulation good for when we can't easily interpret the output? They should really be starting with simpler systems

@badmephisto 14 жыл бұрын

@Ballero0 That is what I am saying. Say I give you functioning brain. You have your bundle of wires too. Now what? How do you properly drive the wires? How do you translate from physical world to activity on wires? How do you translate back and forth between neuronal language and the senses and the actuaries of a body? This problem is nontrivial to say the least.

@WillWister 14 жыл бұрын

wish you could post a transcript or notes....

@badmephisto 14 жыл бұрын

@fuunguus 95% of the brain is not used for body functions, or other stuff we don't care about: I agree! (when we speak neuron by neuron). The cortex forms a huge part of the human brain but it is functionally very uniform, and is made up of NCCs that all look pretty much the same way! So you for me the entire cortex can be just as well treated as a few columns. Relative to this, everything else ancient is big, and unnecessary.

@LordSlag 14 жыл бұрын

"When it gets down to around a million dollars then it becomes economical to replicate professionals and that's economic plutonium." HOLY FUCKSHIT!! Every fuse in my mind blew. Dammit, I don't want bad shit to happen...I want good shit to happen.

@badmephisto 14 жыл бұрын

@dkt80 Who cares about consciousness? The most amazing things our brain does happen unconsciously. Almost every single potential benefit of us having this technology comes down to having the intelligence part of it. The ability to take arbitrary data and make sense of it. The cortex does this. Sure, some old parts of the brain may do approximately similar things, but the hints that evolution has hit a jackpot with the cortex are overwhelming

@Getgadofold 14 жыл бұрын

Wow!

@jaakkokuu 14 жыл бұрын

sound with 480p and 720p has some noise. 360p sounds fine

@WorthlessWinner 13 жыл бұрын

Wouldnt we kinda need..a body? for the brain to walk in? the skeleto-muscular and neural systems are...connected

@dkt80 14 жыл бұрын

@badmephisto: I agree 100% about the body problem (although it will be interesting to see if we can develop substitute sensors that the brain can understand - that has huge medical applications). I think that it will be impossible to disentangle the supposed 95% of the brain that's working on basic bodily functions from the consciousness. I seriously doubt that consciousness is carried in only 5% of the brain. More likely it's an emergent phenomenon that doesn't have a well-localized processor.

@robertwc82 12 жыл бұрын

reality is independant of mind (objective) perception is mind dependant (subjective) your arbitrary beliefs about reality are not reality. like when you watch this video and percieve a 3 dimensional human being talking to you in external objective reality you are really just looking at a plane of glass lit up from behind by little red, green and blue lights. the fact that there is a difference between perception explains why it is possible for illusions to exist.

@kasuskasus 14 жыл бұрын

Nice Swinglish accent! Now I'm going to watch the talk, too. :P

@Abgef 13 жыл бұрын

@DavidOrtiz36 "the second you take your senses away from something how do you know reality isn't completely distorted?" How do you know it is? can you prove such an outlandish claim? "who's to say the earth isn't hollow? if we all believed it is, why wouldn't it be?" Science, & Logic can say...& because there is no logical reason that objective reality exist only in our minds...objective truth is objective whether or not we exist. & is absurd to say objective reality is subjective.

@Ronaldolacerda1 Жыл бұрын

Tortura eletronica Brasil São Paulo Diadema Travessa ETCD

@xavieramont 14 жыл бұрын

Accelerando...

@jsymons1985 14 жыл бұрын

I may be missing something here, but if you uploaded a dead brain into a computer, you would get a simulation of a dead brain! What about tiny nano bots that could scan the architecture of a living brain from the inside and use radio signals to broadcast the data to a hard drive in a lab... just a possibility for non-destructive brain mapping...

@SamSpade2010 13 жыл бұрын

@unassumption He goes into that towards the end... his nightmare that he'll by cryogenically frozen and wake up stuck in Second Life.

@aleksandar5323 12 жыл бұрын

however then we'll probably prove that the brain is using a lot of chemistry and quantum information transfer for It's purposes and back to the drawing board...

@LiquidZ2k 14 жыл бұрын

Interesting subject, but it would be much more useful to read the content in the video at times.

@darris321 13 жыл бұрын

@scotchbeefy I personally don't agree with the theories from number two because he starved his crew when he miscalculated the circumference of the earth based on other mathematicians' calculations. its kind of funny actually because one of the mathematicians he cited was arabic, and so, he used arabic miles. the other was italian... who used italian miles. one of them was about three times smaller than the other one so he ended up with these weird columbian miles because he forgot to convert lol

@robertwc82 12 жыл бұрын

would the robots belief about your mother be "knowledge"?

@darris321 13 жыл бұрын

@scotchbeefy ... "no 3.14" ... "still arguing about it" you're joking right? the fact that the earth is round was well known to columbus. that's what he was doing... that was the whole point. a western trade route to india. and it wasn't even just columbus vs. the world. the spanish royalty gave him money because they agreed. portugal agreed but thought his stipulations were ludicrously luxurious. (he was asking for like 50% of gems found and 10% of land) these people weren't stupid.

@Abgef 13 жыл бұрын

@DavidOrtiz36 "the world around us could be much different than we know, and then our reality will change" Again...There is a huge difference between percieved reality & actual reality...why bother giving plausibility to theories that don't even have any evidence nor any logical sense. A blind man can fall under a sewer whether or not he percieves the sewer. Saying it's unprovable & unfalsifiable does not make it correct...I cannot disprove a unicorn therefore a unicorn must exist? ...wow

@aleksandar5323 12 жыл бұрын

What if you snap the brain of a dying person , with all the neurons, synapses and electro-magnetic activity , figure out all the thresholds and directions of firing of neurons and then emulate it in real time - It's gonna be like the guy just went on to live in a way... then you give him the software to speak and feed with visuals from a camera and I wonder what will come out :)

@darris321 13 жыл бұрын

@scotchbeefy 1. the vikings found america. 2. it was you who said columbus was arguing about it. I said it was well known. Everybody knew the earth was round, and scandanavian countries probably knew there was an america. there have been theories that columbus secretly knew america was there. 3. perception doesn't equal truth. if the world believes 2+2=5 it still equals 4. 4. he did not say nothing. you need to reread it. but even if he did, it's irrelevant to everything you've just said.

@founoe 14 жыл бұрын

@otur1 It's called an "accent". Deal with it.

@braingain1 14 жыл бұрын

wow+++++

@fuunguus 14 жыл бұрын

@badmephisto Heh, I'm sorry man but our brain ain't big because of some huge surge of new body functions 2 million years ago. Big brains are a common feat of social animals. The more social, the bigger the brain gets. 95% of the brain is not used for body functions, probably not even 10%. You see, managing body functions doesn't need much processing. The world around us on the other hand is very dynamic and need lots of processing, then it is the social part which concerns real intelligence.

@arch37 14 жыл бұрын

No one mentioned what alone really means when one has copied his mind to a hard drive! No interrelations with others? That would be the ultimate in slavery to ones self. So Sandberg promotes self righteousness in a test tube! ha! What a ludicrous idea to me who has found the truth in Jesus. Jesus' whole plan is to have you meet Him in this body on this earth through the Spirit! --Love Him & God,

@mickelodiansurname9578 5 жыл бұрын

Old, very very old. How far this research has progressed in less than a decade. At this rate WBE will be the norm by the 60's. It'll be a shock to rather a lot of people. This video has generated less than 50k views and less than 60 comments over a decade. 10 or so of those by one or two folks who for unknown reasons voiced religious ideology. So less than 40 rational comments in almost a decade. Not one of those people mentioned the glaringly obvious implications. How the hell will governments and society deal with this?

@bremulate5318 4 жыл бұрын

If you'd like to find answer to your question. Search for Carboncopies WBE. You will find hours content discussing this and other WBE issues

@Abgef 13 жыл бұрын

@DavidOrtiz36 "reality is speculation" percieved reality is speculation...actual reality exists regardless of whether you percieve it or not. A blind man can fall under a sewer whether or not he percieves the sewer. "to completely deny the theory is ludicrous" it holds no merit because you give no evidence...just a bunch of claims saying that the world will be hollow if we percieve it to be...perception of reality is not actual reality, there's a HUGE difference.

@francisshortjr 12 жыл бұрын

Brain far more complex

@raezad 6 жыл бұрын

Man, you talk like a half assed ai

@francisshortjr 2 жыл бұрын

@@raezad they haven't made anything remotely like the intelligence of a toddler

@arch37 14 жыл бұрын

& be transformed into a new supernatural body like Christ has now as explained in the New Testament as Salvation. A true possession occurs at the reception of Jesus' Words in your heart by reading John 3:16 & believing & clinging to it's truth & praying to receive it's simple promise. Then due to it's promise being fulfilled by Jesus one can expect Salvation. When our physical body gives out, we can expect an instant change into a Spirit being like Sandberg addresses but not on a

@matThaHatter 14 жыл бұрын

@arch37 If this is so laughable, why'd you take the time to watch and comment on this video? Some kind of self assurance? Personally, I spend very little time even THINKING about things that I find impossible or ridiculous, let alone watch and debate over (then again, making snide comments from behind an anonymous screen isn't "Debating"). Perhaps it's because you're an evangelical? If so, you might try not starting with rude, empty arrogance. Even SCIENTOLOGISTS&JEHOVAS WITNESSES know THAT!

@arch37 13 жыл бұрын

@cakeisnotanumber God exists whether you say so or not. He can deal with even the likes of you but always in Love. If you prefer to listen to Jesus directly for today Google Activated magazine see also issue guide

@arch37 13 жыл бұрын

@cakeisnotanumber So Jesus died to introduce us to His Mother. At first while here it was an intro. to His Father God. When Jesus rose from the dead which no other prophet has done, He introduced us to His Mother the Holy Spirit. If any man reject the Mother that is the only unforgivable sin. All other sins or mistakes in life can be forgiven by receiving Jesus mind & copying it to your own through study of His words. It's like your a computer hard drive with a needed over haul and upgrade. arch

@arch37 13 жыл бұрын

There are quite a few mysteries in the Bible but the invisibleness of God is for a purpose. Apparently Jesus and God desire humility in man not pride which motivates us to think we are better than God or others. He doesn't like self righteousness. So He deliberately doesn't appear to us in the flesh very often. Even Paul the apostle only heard a voise from Heaven not the appearance of Jesus. so step out and pray to Jesus to prove his existance. Have you ever done this? It works!