Did you get the results?

Can you talk or show how to do the water test?

@@ivanlawrence2 I can put together a follow up video showing that stuff. It's pretty straight forward. I go to my state's water quality site and select what tests I want. They then send me some sample bottles in the mail, I collect samples and mail them back, then in a few days, they email me the results. I'm not sure where you live but here's the Colorado site I use. I'll bet your state has something similar: cdphe.colorado.gov/laboratory-services/water-testing

@@RobertAdairWorkshop I'm on my local department of water site working through this now. I'm on city water but am near a few old military and rocket manufacturing sites in Southern California. Also, thank you for the awesome informational video!

I’ll check for your follow up video.

Awesome! Thank you. I did give it my best. Appreciate the recognition and the subscribe.

Thank you.

Thanks, Maks. It was a real hurdle at first, but now, I'm ready for the Apocalypse. Provided we have electricity. 😀

Municipal water isn’t the best… lots of chemicals added and municipal underground plumbing system/infrastructure can be very old, corroded, and allow ground water contaminants into your bathing/drinking water

Teat that city water before you brag too much!

Test I should say

Muni water is notoriously baaad. Get it tested for your family's sake.

Thank you! Here’s an overly detailed post I wrote on it that might help. radare.net/2021/01/controlling-an-ro-tank-level-with-an-arduino-uno

@@RobertAdairWorkshop that's awesome! thanks so much!

Awesome, thank you!

Thanks! Nice to hear. Appreciate it.

Appreciate the comment. I think I was unclear. The post filter removes any calcite that has made its way out of the calcite neutralizer. It has been dirty each time I've replaced it. I'm not adding calcite to the RO tank because I don't want any mineralization in that tank. I want to keep it clean.. Good idea about the prefilters and the RO.

Thanks!

US Water Systems does make an acid injection system. I was looking at them when I was considering chlorine injection. I didn't need to go that route, but you might take a look. It uses citric acid to bring the PH down. I'm not sure how that would impact water quality after neutralization (precipitation of solids in the water, iron bacteria, etc) so this might need to be an upstream treatment pre-RO. Anyway, this might help: uswatersystems.com/products/ph-reducer-system

I used to have one in great detail on my personal website. But in November, after 21 years with my web host, I decided I was tired of paying their fees for slow service and outdate software and let the domains expire. I am working on a new one on my personal server, owlintree.com. When I get it built, I'll respond here and let you know. But I had posts on building the whole system, bulding the arduino, and the entire program for the level sensors. I'll keep you aprised.

Hey Robert, any update on that new blog 😊👀 ?

That's good to know. Thank you Aqua General.

That is crazy high. I thought ours was bad. Did you end up finding a system that'd work?

@@RobertAdairWorkshop we haven’t done anything yet, input a water softener in for now, we don’t drink it. $10k for a RO system is a tough pill to swallow lol

I agree!

Hope you don’t mind if I jump in. If you have a municipal supply of water, you probably don’t need an RO system. I’m not sure which country you’re in, but most municipal supply is very clean except for a small amount of Chlorine. However, if you still wanted to get an RO system, it wouldn’t be anything like what was in the video. Yours would be a much smaller unit, that would probably fit underneath your kitchen sink. It would cost about $200 but you could spend as much as $1000 if you wanted to get crazy. The unit consist of 3 to 6 filters, a pressurized tank, and a small faucet. They are very easy to install if you’re a little handy. You won’t need a softener or pre filters or neutralizers or even a UV sterilizer. Your local Home Depot will have one in stock. Hope that helps.

That's a really good question. It varies seasonally, but I'm getting about 2 LPM of permeate with 6 LPM condensate. That's about 2/8 LPM which is a 1:4 ratio. It gets worse than that in the spring, better than that in the fall. I suspect road salt gets into the water table in the spring.

Hi, Peter. Before the RO system, we'd have to replace the dishwasher every other year due to corrosion. Since replacing it, the dishwasher still looks new inside. Really, same for the washing machine. Where I notice it most, though, is in the toilets. We used to get so much scale it'd form a ring where the water level was and crystals would grow out of the tank. That doesn't happen anymore. I haven't noticed a difference in the way the water feels but it felt fine before we did this, too. One thing I have noticed, though, is that our water gets harder in the winter and slightly less hard in the summer. The RO removes it so it doesn't matter, but on the outside spiggots where we still use well water, the crystals get really bad in the winter months. If you want one of these to avoid scale, it'll absolutely work. We haven't had a problem with it since switching the RO system on. There hasn't been much downside other than cost. The 3/4hp booster pump uses a lot of electricity as I have it wired on 120V. I need to extend a 240v circuit but we don't have any free spots in the panel and so it'll be a big job and I keep putting it off. I have been chasing leaks on-and-off since I built the system but that doesn't have to do with it. It's those copper unions I used. Every one of them has developed a leak over time and I've been replacing them as I go.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop thank you!

Hey, Kenham56. We tried using our system to hand-irrigate our garden when we first installed the system. It was really easy to draw the storage tank down to nearly empty. We now have everything planted in garden beds with reservoirs and top those up at night when our water usage is less and the tank is full. We also capture rain water, though, we live in Denver, so there isn't that much rainfaill so it doesn't help too much. Essentially, though, our 1000 gpd unit with a 160 storage tank isn't really big enough for watering the garden. Going with the larger unit could work but there's a couple things you might consider first. The 4000-gpd unit will need a lot of water when the RO system runs. Do you know if your well produces enough water and the piping is sufficient to support the larger RO unit? You'll need about 3 gpm which I guess really isn't that much. Something to keep in mind, though. When the RO system runs, you want it to run a long time and then shut off. You don't want it to short cycle, or run with frequent starts and stops. Plan for it to run a minimum of an hour when it turns on. At 4000 gpd, it could produce as much as 160 gallons in that hour span. I'd recommend a much larger tank than the 160-gallon we used. For a 4000-gpd system, somewhere around 500, maybe, or larger? Do you have the space for a tank that size? If we'd had the space, I originally planed to use a pair of 160-gallon tanks, in parallel, to supply the house, but we didn't have the room. Those tanks are bigger than they look. So one is now used to capture rain water. Probably wouldn't want to go smaller than a 300-gallon tank. Just a couple thoughts to help you decide. Hope it's useful.

The tank came with one fitting on the bottom. A single 1.25” threaded outlet. I connected to that with pvc to supply water to the pump. The other fittings, I installed myself. Look for Bulkhead Fittings. That’s what you’ll need. They come in most standard pipe thread sizes. You will have to drill a hole in the tank to install the fitting. I just used a hole saw and then carefully wiped out the plastic shavings. You can get tanks with or without bulkhead fittings pre installed. Look for that when you buy your tank. I went with 1.25” to match the pipe size for the pump inlet. And 3/8 on the top to match the float. You can get them on Amazon and eBay or from industrial suppliers like Zoro, Grainger or McMaster. Search for the size you need. Eg.” 3/4 bulkhead fitting” and you should see them. Check that they are safe for potable water.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Thank you! That's exactly what I needed to know

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Hello again, I'm planning to buy the same brand RO system as you, but when I went to the website I noticed that the Clean Water Store currently only sells the Flexeon BT 2000 gpd. However, I did manage to find the BT1000 and BT1500 on ESP Water Products website, so the 1000gpd model is still an option. About a week ago, a sales rep from US Water Systems was really pushing me to get a 4000gpd system even though he conceded that I only need a smaller sized tank (140-160 gallons). After talking to the rep, I began to question whether or not 1000gpd was sufficient and thought that you might shed some light on this matter from your personal experience. If you don't mind me picking your brain, what were your reasons for going with the 1000gpd version instead of the 1500gpd or 2000gpd? Has 1000gpd, led to any water shortages for your family where you had to wait to take a shower or wash clothes, etc...? If you had to do it over again, would you still choose the 1000gpd model?

No guide. I figured that all out myself. I wrote up the process on my website. It shows the hardware I used and provides the arduino code. radare.net/2021/01/controlling-an-ro-tank-level-with-an-arduino-uno I'm taking the site down on 11/9, though, pdf it if you'll need it after that.

There's a part 2 with updated code and shows how I made the housing. radare.net/2021/01/controlling-water-tank-level-with-an-arduino-and-two-floats-part-2 Hope this helps.

Hi, Les. I have not yet replaced the membranes. The guide I read suggested to replace them when they no longer provided sufficient TDS reduction. So far, their performance has not degraded. Is your system controlled by a single float?

@@RobertAdairWorkshop ,Don't know brother , I wish I can post a picture of my system ,it seems simpler than that one ,thanks a anyway

I did the installation myself so I’m not sure. Probably half a weeks worth of a plumbers time. $100/hr, 20 hours, maybe about $2k.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop thanks where do I purchase the RO unit from, I am in Southern California

I did. I do them annually. I check for fracking contaminants, industrial contaminants, agricultural and heavy metals. I have sample bottles waiting in my entry right now for my 2022 test but I haven't sent them out yet. I'll post the results in the description when I have them so you all can see performance of the unit.

I don't really know. I got ours from the Clean Water Store, online. I bought the 'Premiere' one with full stainless equipment, the better Grundfos pressure pump, the Minitrol IF controller, condensate recycle loop, feed flush, built in TDS meter . . . It was bundled with a pair of 160-gallon tanks, the fiberglass pressure tank and the Grundfos booster pump. They make at least three versions of the RO system and they are all custom orders from the factory. Our water is corrosive. Incredibly so. So I spent the extra money on the better parts and better pump. I suspect yours was an off-the-shelf base unit.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop oh well that makes sense, when you add up the cost of all other equipment with it. I thought you meant you paid 10k for just the 5 stage.

No. The softener doesn’t bring it down much. It prevents membrane fowling but the 1900 is what goes into the RO system inlet.

It very much would! We use the RO water for everything, though. Laundry. Baths. Dishwashing. Garden watering (the Selenium would end up in the vegitibles if we used well water), filling the aquarium, etc. Pretty much for everything except watering the lawn. Actually, just for fun, I calculated it. The average person in the US uses 150 gallons of water per day. We probably use half of that becuase we are water conscious. 80 gallons per person per day is roughly 90k gallons of water per year. That's 700,000 16-ounce bottles of water. Holy cow!! So this is looking quite cost effective.

The RO system doesn't put out much pressure. Backpressure on the output hose is bad and reduces its efficiency. The RO water goes into a storage tank so no pressure needed. The pressure comes from the booster pump which pulls water from that tank. We have a 35-55psi system so the house is usually somewhere around 50psi water pressure. Showers, garden hose, faucets, all work really well. The takeaway is, the RO system doesn't make any pressure. The pressure comes from the booster pump which draws water from the RO storage tank. Hope that helps.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Very helpful! Thank you!

@@RobertAdairWorkshopby how much has the system increased your water bill?

I eventually realized that the water softener before the RO was moot and removed it. You are totally correct.

Mine does not have automatic flush. That's probably an option that I didn't spring for. It's easy to flush manually, though. When it is running and the tank level is pretty low, I open up the concentrate valve wide-open. That lets extra water flow through the concentrate loop and flushes the RO membranes. I let it run like that for about 15-minutes and then set the valve back to its original position.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Thanks for the info!

We don’t use 500 gallons per day. There are only three of us. More like 160 or so. I’d planned to install a water meter so I could log usage but never got it done.

Thanks again, I must have misunderstood.

Hi, Cobre. It’s making .55gpm of clean water per minute and discharging 1.6. That’s about 3-gallons down the drain for 1 gallon of clean water. I send that into our septic system. It hasn’t been a problem for our septic. At least, so far.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop some of the newest systems discharge the wastewater back into the well, but you have to have a well that is set up for that. It's really nice because it doesn't deplete the well and barely affects the concentration of the well overall and you don't run the risk of running your well dry as quickly

The RO unit came from US Water Systems. I built the system myself.

I plumbed it myself. I think it would have been expensive to have someone do it.

Once a week (when my maintenace reminder light comes on), I open the concentrate valve fully for about 15-minutes and push a lot of water past the RO membranes. That was the manufacturers recommendation. It's worked well so far.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Great! Thank you!

That's a bummer! Ours is in the basement, right up against a soil berm and next to the AC. It stays a nice 58F, pretty much year round. Are you able to get by without could water?

@@RobertAdairWorkshop We are going to install an air conditioner. We live in the desert so we may only use it 3 or 4 months of the year. I don’t think that hot temp is even good for the water system.

Without the pressure tank, there is no consistent pressure. Imagine that 15|amp pump turning on every time you turn on the faucet. You would have to open the faucet, then turn on the pump and let it flow. Then when you turned off the pump, the pressure would go back to zero. It does not work without a pressure tank.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop What do you mean? What’s the issue? Of course it would work. Plenty people use on demand pump with various configuration. You open the faucet, water trickles out, then pump kicks in, then you clause the faucet and the pump stop.

@@Maxime-ho9iv O, it won’t, sorry. Build one for yourself and you will understand. I can’t explain it to someone who has their mind already made up on the topic.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mbdpf6dplZ7IfaM.html

It was somewhere around $20k. That included the premium RO unit with the better, higher pressure pump, better membranes and stainless, everything. Since our water is so corrosive, I went with that stuff to help with longevity. The premium stuff added about $2k to the price of the RO unit. It also included the tank, piping, the pressure pump and pressure tanks, the neutralizer, the UV sanitizer and the Arduino controls. What gets you in the end is all the ancillary stuff you need to incorporate that RO unit into your house plumbing and get it pressurized.

If you're handy with plumbing and electrical, you can do it yourself. I had to extend two new circuits for the pump and the RO unit so they were on dedicated breakers. The plumbing I used was all copper and I'm really good at soldering and fitting copper, so it wasn't bad.

We had to buy the stuff to store the water, pressurize it, and feed it into the plumbing. That included the storage tank, level controller , jet pump, pressure tank, calcite neutralizer, filter assembly for post calcite treatment and UV light sterilizer. None of that stuff was included with the RO system. It adds up fast.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop Thank You!

Mine's been up and running for 4 years now without issue. I think they're good machines, well worth the money for what they do.

One year later, we had to replace a relay switch and add an additional 20 inch filter. Our well water is 1700 ppm tds. Water is better than ever now.

Ha! There aren't any taps available. We gave that a shot early on. They are sold as a commodity and there aren't any available for purchase. I should mention that we are in an unincorporated area. The City of Broomfield starts in the middle of the road.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop That makes sense. My regards for all the attention to detail; there are a thousand ways to do that job badly and only a few to do it well.

@@jimsvideos7201 Pun intended? :)

@@RobertAdairWorkshop No, that one was entirely fortuitous 😅

No, you're right. I have a well and a septic system. I don't pay for the water that I pump out of the ground, except for the electricity to run the pump.

@@RobertAdairWorkshop that’s awesome set up you have.