Current META really be like "do you want to pursue a flying missile boat that will kill you by 1000 small cuts, or get smacked by a Tank in one hit? or maybe a Dual Viento Melee 10 second duel?" you are either a Rat, a Melee Pursuer or a Tank. Rats can run from tanks, but get catches by pursuers, pursuers get smacked by tanks, and tanks get cut by rats. it's a rock paper scissors, the fight is mostly set in the garagee , Medium Builds and most weapons are just useless.

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game" - Soren Johnson. It takes work for game developers to balance a game perfectly where many things are viable.

God I've made this point so many times. Got essentially told to fuck off on the reddit saying this and told it's a "skill issue". Meanwhile, I was using a pulse blade, shoulder gat, one missile, and a turner rifle. I would win some engagements, but I was at vast disadvantage. One of the biggest issues is the distance for weapons being effective. Against tanks you have to be at the recommended range, which put you at about 150m for most weapons. When a tank can quad wield the most powerful weapons and you have to perfectly time your dodges on a poor netcode you'll get wrecked. Not to mention dumb light builds like dual vientos with double earshots which can essentially one shot light/medium builds. I hate that in order to be competitive I have to essentially change from a fun game style to a less skillful one.

I 100% agree about this. The more you climb high the less creative and fun you get

Love the idea about expanded PvE. Even Ghost of Tsushima, very much a single player oriented game, managed to incorporate a raid later on

They should make a wave game mode where you just take on the games npcs, similar to the “take out the red guns” mission, but this time you get an infinite set of waves vs npcs that get stronger the longer you play, and of course you’ll get the resupply kit between waves to keep yourself in the game

Bro was cooking with this one, the first point about no one expressing themselves has been bumming me out for awhile

Ill say this. Gen 4 gave players the utmost ability to customize multiplayer gametypes and player count. Its was so damn simple. You could start a match with 1v7 or 2v2 or 4v4 or 1v1 or 5v2 or free for all. And any combination in-between. The freedom of proper custom games is what this game is missing. Rank will always have issues. But customs is where the game stays alive

Good video. Meta gaming has really ruined PVP for this game with the bad netcode also. It's the same thing that's happened with Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3. I think the last fromsoft game I really enjoyed PVP was Dark Souls 2 and ACFA. So many different types of builds you could run into for both games. I guess we didn't know how good we had it.

I lurk exclusively in custom rooms now. You see less meta there except for the odd s ranker

I would play the shift out of a survival mode, especially if it had coop.

I think that Terminal armor should be fixed as well, it has WAY to much AP and assault armor doesn't cancel it out because of it.

I want to and will still disagree with you on the alternative provided at the 5:56 mark, but I will be the first to admit that I can't offer another solution at this time. A fair solution here is not a damage adjustment to builds differing in weight--that's just not fun. I've thought on the idea of assigning players' their matches via weight divisions. Ideally, this would level the playing field and provide fair match-ups in PvP. However, the biggest glaring issue in this alternative is one SIGNIFICANTLY worse than unhappy heavyweight AC's--it's an extremely alienating change. For example, lightweight AC's in this scenario would only ever face off against other lightweight AC's, and likely will never experience the other builds and possibilities the game has to offer. The same applies to mediumweight and heavyweight AC's. I wish it were easier to address this issue and provide a solution, but build creativity and overcoming such huge hurdles are very much a fundamental elements in the game. The best outcome of Patch 1.06 would definitely be an improved netcode, so that dodges work as intended & players aren't caught by some bullshit instant-kill Kamehameha they clearly avoided. If that ever comes to be, I think a lot of the community will find PvP more fair and enjoyable.

I gotta agree. That said, even in B rank I've seen some fun people. Someone using the old rusted build which only shoots jammer and one cannon, someone who was shooting 4 jammers after the new years, a dude with shield and so on. Some just refused to fight and instead we ended up jumping around for all 3 rounds. I'm using a build as far away from meta as possible. Got no idea how to use other builds so I'm using only 1 and trying to get gut at it. Its fun. Also the emblems get fun sometimes. Sometimes people just copy them. Sometimes its fun to beat a tank with using mostly kicks. Sometimes like you mentioned its extremely annoying because of lag abusers, tanks and missile rats.

Daemon X Machina really nailed the whole PvE PvP transition

A game mode where it's a co-op boss rush, but your partner is off screen doing something that is a requirement to fight either two skilled ACs or one large and powerful enemy; such as the Ice worm, or one of the two Balteus variants. Would make a pretty fun experience for online multiplayer, or maybe even a co-op mission where you need to destroy a set amount of enemies or infrastructure before time runs out Either one of those would provide a wonderful online experience for the game, given it's current PvP state.

Yea quite unfun gameplay when the majority of opponents whole game plan is to take you from 10k Ap to 0 in a single stagger

Its just sad cause I catch glimpses of what pvp could be, ive encountered fights where ive sweated my balls off, the fight was almost like a dance. But now ive had times where I look at a person’s build and think “Oh im just gonna lose this round” and sure as shit I do.

I think that we need more complex customization options in this game, that come down to adding more personalized controls, or specific tools to the ac. I was thinking about the way boosters work in acfa, where you can adjust the speeds of different directional inputs based om boosters and their positions on the ac. Options like this, which have no universal right answer and should be customized to the users playstyle, give a more diverse ecosystem of acs, rewarding players who suit their ac to themselves to maximize their skills and preferences over the player who just copies presets. What’s more is the ability to add tertiary tools like flares to emergency bays turns what is a game of rock paper scissors into a game of situational advantages and disadvantages, and using your kits limited resources to place yourself in advantageous positions. As long as the complexities of the game stem from individually simple moving pieces that are effectively taught through devices in the game, having more complexity means more experimentation, more personalization, and greater emphasis on pilot skill to maintain consistency.

So the problem is that you can't spend enough time killing Snail. That checks out.

bring back turning speed. and bring back anti missile internal/extension.

The thing I'd like to see most is actually a mixed PvEvP system. Something akin to a moba, where there would be long stretches of fighting enemy AI, interspersed with team fights and occasional duels or ganks.

The tanks should have defense stats lowered significantly. The difference in squishiness is too great between light and heavy. The advantage of a tank should be mainly more load capacity.

Ive been lambasted on reddit for saying exactly this. I quit PvP for a while after being pitted against another kite build. I just sat there and stared at the screen and let him kill me like 😑

I do wish game devs would take a greater consideration to meta gaming and make actual answers for them. That being said, 90% of the issue with this game in particular is actually just how aggressive hard lock is, and not just the actual locking on portion of it either. With a good FCS, theres very little reason to use soft lock especially at close ranges. The ease of movement involved also takes away a bunch of the difficulty of the old games by making it so you can never truly lose your opponent and they'll stick to you like glue, whereas in old games it was more about being better at moving around in a clunky yet fast mech than your opponent, rather than about how hard you hit them or how hard it is actually reach them like it is now.

I agree on the "no fun" part of facing tanks and rats, however while they pack a punch, their skill ceiling is incredibly low compared to that of Lightweight AC's. I think the best players are slowly going to move towards lighter builds overtime as they get better at the game, with the aid of a few balance patches. Though you're absolutely right about the netcode, theres no defending the lag lasers that plague PvP.

As a non-meta AC who just now decides to quit a match when I see a lightweight-missile boat, I felt this

This sums it up pretty well. If you want to check out a better armored core pvp experience, come try 4th or 5th gen. Both have thriving pvp communities even now, and are incredibly friendly and welcoming.

If climbing to B rank made you quit, climbing to A rank *which I foolishly made* is a brain rot. I wish they balance the game, and kudos to you for speaking out unlike the big youtubers on AC6 who only play for the money and won't even address this issue despite their massive platform and their self-proclaimed "love" for the game.

what you describing here is normal mostly in rank/comp. environment.

They need to make all weapons more viable so people don’t focus on crutch builds

Pvp honestly wouldn't be so bad if they fixed the stagger system as it dont work as intended in pvp. it works in pve with it being so easy to stagger and once staggered it deals such high dmg that can be delt that its a bit to punishing especially in the run away meta we have rn with assault boost being nerfed for evey thing but heavy tank and tetrapod. Like there is already a minor stagger in the game. When you get hit by certain guns you flinch not allowing you to keep fighting, you dont need a complete system shut down stagger that just happens that often that allows you to take massive almost if not one hit k.o because of that. And lets not forget it keeps ppl suspended in the air with no boosters when they should plumit or at least fall to the floor at some sort of decent even if it like emergency boosters or something to lose altitude at least even just a little

I'm surprised to not find more videos about things like this. Honestly, I feel like the netcode is basically the only problem. I run a fast, lightweight, dual laser pistol build. I follow the queues to dodge when I get them, dodge out of the way, only to be staggered by the dual laser cannon shots 50 feet away from me at a completely different angle. That, or I'll be kicked by an ac facing a completely different direction, or destroyed by a grenade launcher on some other area of the arena. What am I supposed to do about that? I can't git gud my way out of visual information that is lying to me.

It gets worse though because its carried over to custom matches too, its so rare I get to fight someone who isnt using some meta tryhard shit and im literally playing hermit with no expansion

They should let you select a boss from the campaign missions, and a map. Give the boss triple health and 1v4 the boss as a co-op mode

I don't know how Fromsoftware's attitude towards PvP is exactly, but if they're really making (or, TRYING) AC6 a game with good PvP, they need to step up their game (no puns intended). Starting from fixing that atrocious netcode! I'm getting really sick of being hit by someone who didn't even have their firing animation displayed, or fighting teleporting opponents as if I'm fighting someone from Dragonball Z. Then, they need to learn how to make a proper PvP map. Current map pools are being pulled straight out of campaign mode, and their distinct lack of obstacles/ covers/ strategic points made them pretty lame for multiplayer. Right now, if you're ran into a missile rat in a map that lacks overhead covers? You're not going to have a good time. Finally, maybe they can consider adding more and more game modes. Why can't we have 2v2 games if we can do 3v3 already? Why don't we have anything like Capture the Flag or King of the Hills? And maybe adding a cooperative PvE mode?

The lasers really do suck with the net code, I have clips upon clips where the laser completely whiff me, only to fully stagger me and I die in seconds, not great for lightweight builds :/

all competitive games develop metas at the top of the ladder. and it's just not possible for every player to find a new way to play that is as effective as every other one while still being really new. so that's a nonargument. but bad netcode and the meta itself being boring are good points.

4:07 "If you watch fifty videos of people fighting the bosses, you'll likely see fifty different builds." I'd like you to show me, because the only build I ever see people using for PvE is a biped with dual Zimmermans and stun needle launchers... (I can't remember the last time I saw build variety or creativity in the PvE content)

I think another huge fix would be for FromSoft to make more of the midrange weapons viable, or make the long range (missiles) and short range (Zimmerman and viento) options less viable to compensate. Currently most mid and long range weapons don’t have high enough projectile velocity to hit targets even with optimal FCS and arms. The few exceptions either exploit net code (lasers) or have functioning proximity fuses (plasma rifles) Due to this, only a fraction of the already modest weapon pool are competitive, with even fewer being “meta”

I haven't seen a single AC in multiplayer that was unique. I have seen dozens of infinite flight builds and even more one shot combo builds. I cant have fun with the multiplayer and it sucks. On global searching I cant even find a ranked match. Im not the best player but i expect to find one match i can win, its not even fun when i loose, its just the same people and the same builds completely crushing me. How can i be expected to get better if i never find a fair fight?

I just started getting into pvp and quickly became suspicious as to why i was getting hit so much, and now i know where pvp went wrong Insightful video

Agreed. Maybe omit or ban certain parts from Ranked PvP (Vientos, Stun Guns, LCBs, Lammergeier Legs, Bornemissza Legs, Coral Generators) would probably eliminate stagnation of build creativity, but chances are it’ll most likely create a new Rock, Paper, Scissors meta. Climbing up singles just to B Rank has been excruciating, running into Missile Lam-rats, LCB Tanks or Heavies, BVO variants, and Stun Gunners. When I get thrown off the most is when encountering an off-meta build you have no idea how to deal with. Good video.

I swear it had potential to be something great, but people just wanted the rank fast so that's why they used the meta/cheesiest builds since some take no skill to delete people, the worst part is some of em you can't really counter

i fully agree with all the points, hell its even hard to have friendly bouts with friends without having some factor of unfairness even when you are not meta hugging. also would like to point out the later part of the video with the balteus fight it was hard to hear you, i recommend lowering the game volume next time so the commentary can shine thru more.

I want co-op missions friends for ac6 have something like the more friends join you the more enemies spawn in

I can’t even get to s rank with my new Arsene build in teams I was waiting 3 hours in matchmaking yesterday and when I do get that one game per day all the meta players just leave before the games even start as soon as they see that they won’t win the ac rock paper scissors build contest, everyone runs meta and they leave when their meta is countered by another meta build because “I already know I’m not gonna win anyways, so what’s the point?”, ranked is an RNG counter contest to see who has the correct build for that specific match against two to six random players so you just have to get lucky half the time and pray you don’t run into a full laser tank, quad leg missile boat, speedy bullet hell etc. it’s so crazy how I sped through the ranks and 90% of the players I encountered were the exact same as the ones I had faced in D rank, but now I can’t get any games because those same people rage quit and I can’t get a full match anymore, they’ll leave right before they lose it’s so annoying, parents need to just watch how some of their kids play games and see what kind of actual goblins they are raising, they’ll play games all day and lose while running the lowest skill builds and close application after 75% of rounds and open it right back up😭💀 who got the time to be like that though fr😭😭

I mean it is a fundamental bad faith and disingenuous argument to blame the players for picking optimal gear is a game that has list building. If the developer won't or can't create the game where needing to actually engage with creative list building is necessary then why bother with anything but the most optional. This is fundamental soft fault for their lack of creativity and imagination when designing and expecting the player to do all the heavy lifting in order to make their system work.

Fromsoft should just make all weapons and parts has pros and cons each of them to balance game

Honestly I don’t think it can be helped first it was Zimmerman builds then those were nerfed. Then it was double stun guns Then the lance builds Then missile boats and other stuff took over and if they do do something to nerf those op builds players will somehow find a new meta That’s just how gamers work they find the best things to win and people copy. Though yeah armor core 6 would benefit a lot from multiplayer PvE modes

Yeaaaa I was kinda lucky that my build was coincidentally not too far off from one of the meta builds. Mine being dual duckett + dagger and cheeky wueger wombo combo so climbed up to A4 but maaaan it was brutal, had to change my build tho a bit to deal with the obnoxious stuff but still keep ducketts cuz vientos are just bleh in both usage and aesthetically for my AC lol. At one point in A rank I just got fed up with the LCB tanks that one match i just fired one duckett off at him and ran around to win by timer cuz no way i can dodge all that up close with duckett's effective range leading to lots of ricocheting on tanks. I hate winning a round like that but there's no other way to win due to laser tanks just being unavoidable at that range...plus the tank bug. I would love for the net code issue to fixed but sadly I'm not sure if that problem will be fixed for a while if ever. I would sooooo be down for a coop PvE thing with others

Coop was such a missed opportunity in AC6, at the very least something like AC4Answers co-op.

This is pretty much the ladder experience in competitive online games, unfortunately. It's more obvious or obnoxious in some than others, but the ladder is where the "sweats" go to win and get letter grades about how good they are, so I'm not surprised it's a void for creativity or fun. How's the casual pvp experience, though? Is anyone doing that, and is the meta as prevalent there?

The game needs a deeper divide in ap's effect on weight, and then to make the ap lead raw rather than percent. By making heavier builds need defensive play to keep the lead, you also avoid the whole "endless kiting" situation you tend to get otherwise. The game also needs less focus on stagger, and more focus on letting weapons that aren't singleshot have a turn to actually effect the outcome of games.

I'm glad some one else shares this sentiment it's like you have so many parts and so much to make your own Identity as a AC and pilot and you don't. why? like personally I made myself into a heavy weight Ibis series mech is the best way to put it but since I run dual coral rifles and almost always charge them up all the way I can't do anything because lag and light weight spam my mech does really well against tank builds luckily but it's like man I really don't want to swap back to Giant energy weapons that just punish the lightweights but what else can I really do.

I have a guess why FS continued to implement this suckass PVP eventhough they are actively giving focus on production on campaign. Someone in FS or Bandai wanted this PVP implemented just to fulfil their ego. It doesn't make any sense why such an unbalance afterthough PVP is implemented. Honestly, I want to know how bad is player disconnecting from matches in ACVI compared to previous gens. That would be a surefire way to tell how bad ACVI's PVP is.

We have been begging for pve with friends

Yup! This is the nature of human competitiveness, which unfortunately isn't going to change. One solution that has filled this void for me is connecting with like-minded pilots to practice with. Also working on fun-focused events like point-buy tournaments or seasons to inspire more creative builds within our community. Good luck, fellow Raven!

I find it particularly hard to fight in ranked with my starlink internet, which has often periodic latency. I managed to get to B1 before being walled off by bazookas, plasma rifles, and the new laser cannons.

Yea. I'm with you on the multiplayer PvE modes if they can make any.

I platinum ac6 is 4 days and I was so glad there were no pvp trophies I had to get.

The only problem imo is the net code cuz those lazer lcbs will never hit anything even a fly that literally stays still if you have good internet.

That is partly due to the stagger system which simply doesn't belong in AC. At least in the old games you could run quirky builds and catch people off guard.

Anytime I make a new ac, I just use loader 4 as default until I've made a viable ac. That's when I come up with a name and design for it.

PvP is only good if you heavily restrict yourself against other people who also heavily restrict themselves and both of you have to be playing basically identical build. The fundamental issue is that the game is about who has better stats while skill matters almost nothing

you'd think for a game based on famous mecha anime there would be people wanting to engage in that kind of combat but no let's just keep making the same easy to play builds with nothing interesting yet again, metacucks ruin everything. wasted potential

Here in july 2024, it's all tanky builds with no actual fighting skills... completely kills the game. If i lose to because they have skil cool.. not because they get a lucky shot.

Been playing Armored core since masters of Arena. Made it to A rank and got sick of the same cookie cutter builds every single match. Killed my interest. Uninstalled over a month ago and I doubt I'll go back until at the very least the Netcode is better. Only thing that gives you a chance against some of the cheese builds

Everyone is complaining about this, but it is this way in every single game. Literally. You go in ranked on cod, halo or anything and you’ll see the same few setups, it’s competitive and people will use the tools to win. Same goes for MOBAs and fighting games, you’ll see the same few characters. I understand this might frustrate people, but don’t speak as if it’s bad in AC6, it might just be more noticeable to you because well, it’s an AC and not just a gun or perk setup.

FACTS!, MY BROTHER IN CORAL💯 My creativity was smashed too because of these boring people

Definitely agree with the hope that we see not just balance changes but new mage modes added in. Whatever we get, it really needs to shake things up so we're not just seeing laser tanks, rats, BVOs, and Zimmers all day in ranked. On a unrelated note you should consider lowering the audio of the background footage or raising the volume of your voice. At 6:45 it becomes especially difficult to hear anything you're saying cause of the all the gameplay sounds!

They should bring back co-op endgame bosses like in ACV and ACVD

Ive been saying the same exact thing in this video ever since on steam and primarily on the netcode. A majority of pvp's issues occur because of the netcode. PvE as well could use stuff like a rougelite mode, survival, raids etc etc. But fromsofts priorities is god knows where

The PVP leaves a lot to be desired...Tired of playing an un-fun npc infested wasteland of the same several builds. I'll come back to this game if the developers take it seriously.

Is quad gattling Guns meta? I hope not. I have been using it since the shoulder gats launched and its so much Fun.

Absolute garbage pvp

I dont think the PVP inherently sucks. But rather the people higher up the ladder inherently fucking suck.

I agree playing pvp i learned that for me i am not good at playing a light weight or even medium weight build. Tank with quad laser cannons or anything hard hitting has carried me to S rank because otherwise i kept losing. You cant be creative in pvp like in pve your forced to use whatever helps you win.

I missed how they did the multiplayer online mission for VD

I unfortunately don't play pvp. I knew what it was going to be.

The problem is i can access pvp as early as beginning act 2, and go against people clearly ng++. How tf is it fair for me with zero good guns or armor to go against missle boat? Or the fucking flash with zimmers? There need to be tiers or progression tied to the main story

I have a completely different problem I just started climbing ranked and I got to D rank and then that’s it. It’s been five days and I can’t get a single match. I have no idea what’s going on.

imo they should add a weight class match queue -- you wanna play heavy tank builds? that's fine, but you're only ever gonna play against other heavy tank builds. that way lightweights actually have a chance to do something. this obviously isnt ideal, but its pretty obvious they just dont intend on fixing the massive disparity between weight classss

I agree this makes pvp and custom matches dry everybody just runs the heaviest shit no weapons that involve skill i made it all the way to A rank just for it to became more oppressive and boring

This is typical of most online competitive pvp community unfortunately.. I swore not to get into pvp when I played armored core but I already dipped my toes in and that was enough for me to stay away from the game for a bit. I made it up to B rank and immediately met with the toxic builds... Survival or boss rush mode would probably be the only thing I'd come back for if they ever do something like it.

Feel like your just one epiphany short of realizing that ranked pvp sucks for any game. From there the next lesson is learning that climbing ladders and ranks generally isn't playing a game. As a consumer the general idea is a mix of trying new things and trying things you know you will enjoy. Learn more about yourself and the things you dislike so you can avoid situations like this in the future.

Game sucks cause you can't dodge. Lol. I know I suck.

Bro d rank?? Really?? Bro I agree with what you said but that mostly applies to A rank

It sucks because no one is f*cking playing 😤

My bois, if you want to be creative, custom mode exists. What were you expecting from ranked, seriously

PVP is not everyone's cup of tea including me if only fromsoft expanded more on co-op missions or boss raid like mission not to mention all pvp has the same problem in the form of META

1000% agree and support what you say! You the first person I saw on KZfaq channel have the guts to talk about all these instead of "feeling themselves" showing their dumb winning by unbalanced or internet advantage LAGY build

Skill issue

This has been online game PvP forever. It will never change. The vast majority of players will eventually flock to the easy meta and cheapest busted tactics they can. Public online gaming is pretty miserable typically

I havent played any pvp but its obvious that helth+atk pwr literally carries in this game. Not to mention, light builds arent even that much faster, definitely not fast enough for speed alone to contribute to ur survival. My 1st mech game was daemon X, so already ac6 had some downisides (like restricted flight, streamlined movement, overuse of aim assist. I dunno, so many weapons a lighter builds get cucked for no reason. All these updates and theyve never seen the practical inability to not play tank/hvrtank as an issue? Its like pvp is getting worse. Too many developers are more focused on making sure noobs dont get stomped rather than making a game you want to excel in. God forbid light builds actually let you overwhelm an opponent. Nope, get impact spammed bum. I played my 1st pve playthru mostly with chainguns and missles. Its much easier this time around with pistols and high impact shoulder weps. Endless stagger lol.

I really want to like the game but it's a mixed bag. The core gameplay and movement are very good but the meta slaving is getting stale. Very little incentive to experiment. Top level play is guys abusing lasers and the game's poor latency. It's a shame.

isn't ranked all about ego anyway? Custom matches still exist if you don't want to climb the ladder and deal with fun sucking sociopaths only in it to win.

breaking: a series where mission success is decided at the garage doesn't translate well to PvP also coming up: lammergeier a lightweight replacement to HAL core? more at 11

boom boom stagger stagger dead. PVE is nice but PVP is sooo bad.... Mecha Break will beat AC6 *pvp*

Meta isnt the issue its the perception of people with what is presented , people can express themesleves and lose but people are not content with the stigma and phsycology of [losing] everyone wants to win winning is what is fun is what people want at thier core