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Why Amplifier ‘Linear’ Power Supplies are not Regulated Rant - Have they been lying to us?
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2 жыл бұрынIn this 'Rant' video 'Why Amplifier ‘Linear’ Power Supplies are not Regulated Rant - Have they been lying to us?’, I’ll talk about the benefits of regulating the power supply. I'll also make the point that the so called linear power supply is nothing but a low frequency switching power supply.
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@kenhuntington1786 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Eddie, another fantastic video. Been saying the same thing for nearly 50 years since starting work with an amplifier manufacturer. The audiophiles are listening to the harmonics generated between their music and the 120 or 100Hz ripple on their amp PSU. This can be heard particularly on tube (valve) amps with tube rectifiers and may explain some of the magic 'valve sound'. Seen the anaemic reservoir capacitor values on most tube equipment? Been a convert to switch mode PSUs on audio for around 20 years and always use one for my audio projects on size grounds alone. Gotta get away from bean-can sized smoothing caps and plate sized 50/60Hz transformers. Just do it, you won't regret it!
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ken very interesting feedback! I appreciate you!
@fabiotrevisan8922 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Eddie, you really nailed it on this video! It's really incredible the lengths the audiophile community can go praising snake oil while the obvious things they don't tackle. A non regulated "linear" power supply really behaves like a switching power supply! One can even see the rectified current PWM'ing as it checks against the ripple discharge ramp! Yet, design discussions on those PSs, on whether we should use (or better avoid) high speed or soft recovery rectifiers due to the switching artifacts that they create (against the transformer's inductance) are all discussions that resembles much more the SMPSs realm than the linear world. You really have a point on the obvious advantages anyone could get by regulating a power amplifier's power supply, especially in the audiophile segment where it seems that no effort is too expensive to get "that last" quality improvement. It seems though that, in contrast to what they preach, they are in fact employing engineering approaches to their design, weighing-in cost and profit margins against objective (tangible) benefits. Objective benefits? Did I say that? How do they know? They measure it? Lol.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Fabio for this excellent feedback! I totally agree with you!
@mosfet500 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Eddie, boy you're really touching on unscientific stupidity hear. First, and I learned this the hard way, you can't rationalize irrational people who don't know science. Don't even try, I run welders with less copper than that wire you're showing! I did an article for AudioXpress where I used linear regulators and got ridiculed for it, I can send you the schematics. Paul is a nice guy but he doesn't know electronics, I saw a YT video where he explained power factor and phase and it was completely wrong, you can search it out if you think I'm kidding, he has no idea what he's talking about but he's talking to people who don't know electronics - it's the blind leading the blind. They advertised their new speaker as having a tweeter with "zero mass", did I tell you this before? Zero mass is impossible, they said "we'll get back to you". Half the people designing audio equipment have no idea what they are doing, no wait, 90%. Someone did it before so it has to be the way to do it. Don't even tell them they can't hear DC - they think they can! I've been using sophisticated instruments for 40 years or more, I never got a manufacturer who said it has to run 100 hours before it works right, it has to break it. What is actually breaking in? The electrons have to find their way through the transistor, why didn't I think of that! You can't rationalize these people, they hear things it's impossible to hear and none of them will, or can, do it in a double blind test - and I mean none of them! It's about money, they're making a lot of money on human ignorance - PT Barnum would be proud.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback! I agree with you - but I'm looking for straws - or the most minute thing that might actually have an effect. I'm rationalizing as well - but I think a test with and without a linear regulated supply might have the answer. I'd be happy to see your schematic and the article.
@mosfet500 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog I'm just doing another article, I'll PM you the schematic, I'm interested in what you think of it.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
@@mosfet500 thanks - I appreciate you!
@michaellee6654 2 жыл бұрын
A good video. The passionate audiophile pushes the limits of what is possible towards perfection. In the early 80s there was a project in the Audio Amateur magazine where someone with the surname BOAK converted a Dynaco ST150 into a fully regulated model by adding a couple transformers to the main one to boost the voltage and then putting a regulator in. The regulator he designed was a current boosted LM340-T which was floated up to the required rail voltages. This was a nice design that did not limit current but had current foldback to protect against shorts. The end result was measured and it was objectively shown to reduce distortion from the original design. Perhaps the front end was not that well regulated in the first place but still it improved the performance. I took on this project but applied it to the Leach Power Amp from that time that I had built. Now it turned out that someone else in my city had built the same amplfier I had but had done so as a dual mono block with dual toroids where mine used a simple Hammond EI transformer. One day we were able to compare the sound of mine ( fully regulated with his). The difference was in loud bass passages. It was clearly audible ( Rough Trade -Shaking the Foundations). Just as a trick, we then jumpered his amplifier to my power supplies with thin wires with clips and it now sounded identical. From that day on - all my power amplifiers are fully regulated. Now what needs to be said is that full regulation removed "warmth" from the amplifiers but the amplifiers no longer compressed loud passages and appear to dig deeper into lower frequencies. The removal of "warmth" is an aspect which would be worrisome to mfrs. Comparison of LM340 etc. vs. Sulzer op amp based clow current regs also show differences in sound as well. Today I now use Benchmark AHB2, LA4 and for the phono stages, I have each op amp with a dedicated high speed regulator with an equally fast op amp doing the work. All are fully regulated using cheap IEC cords.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the fantastic feedback!
@jeremyglover5541 Жыл бұрын
Well, some of us in fact do use regulated supplies for our power amps. There are some brands that do as well; (Krell is one of note) but not many. you are correct that its not the norm. it does become quite expensive and it does add a bunch more heat to get rid of, when you power your amplifiers with amplifiers. Typically if any, they are used in lower power class A, or high bias class AB amplifiers. it also adds points of failure and audiophiles are a superstitious bunch ... I run a digital crossover, meaning that each driver has its own amplifier. this allowed me to use lower power amplifiers for tweeters and midrange and those have regulated supplies, with only the bass drivers using switchmode power supplies for the output stage, with regulated front end. There are some class D amps that have regulated switching supplies. As you pointed out, it can cut down on the 'heft' and typically linear or switching regulated supplies dont like driving large capacitor banks.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback! I like the idea of doing the crossover at low signal level so that you amplify each speaker. Switching power supplies have no need to drive large cap banks - as the switching cycles are so much faster - there is no need for large caps that are needed for slow cycles. Audio just does not get the best engineers - they have some great ones - but they are far and few in between.
@jeremyglover5541 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Oh i'm with you there. I dont really see myself as your typical audiophile. I try and stay firmly on the objective side, if I can. I do have a tendency to overengineer, but that is not the worst of sins. Not a fan of being associated with some of that woo woo. Indeed, they dont need the large cap banks. My meaning-following along with your point- was just that because they dont like, or need large cap banks, thats one less thing to make the chassis heavy and thus 'quality' . I favour measurement and high performance SMD design, rather than mysticism and metallurgy. As it happens i'm in the middle of designing a PCB for a TPA3255 multichannel amplifier, to go with the DAC and DSP i'm working on. The final package being a 3d printed waveguide loaded active speaker with inbuilt DSP (raspberry pi compute module plus FPGA, driving a multichannel DAC and ADC/mic pre. I'm feeding it with a switcher I bought, at this stage, as i'm just dipping my feet in designing regulated SMPS PCBs as they are a bit of a black art. I'm pretty sure thats how your video came up on my feed ... gotta love google ... Designers I admire are people like Bruno Putzeys of Hypex and Purifi fame, Scott Wurcer of Analogue devices, the late Jim Williams from Linear Technologies and engineers like Howard Johnson and Henry Ott
@ianhaylock7409 2 жыл бұрын
Another great rant. Would be nice if you could do an experiment putting a linear regulator circit on the the output of a "linear" PSU, and showing the difference in the output of an amplifier.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks - I will do this in the near future!
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Eddie the gold standard is an array of batteries. Compare linear/switches to "pure" DC of batteries. Some old car batteries will do, avoid the cost of lithium.
@duncansjhamilton7498 Жыл бұрын
I’ve worked for two UK audio companies and designed Class-D amplifiers for them with switching supplies. Commercially successful. Everything you say in your video is true and it’s warming to hear from someone such as yourself. They don’t listen and ironically a lot of the design work I did found it’s way into production years later after I had left.. and other people took credit for that. I work for a much larger company now working on large scale power converter designs and it’s so much more refreshing.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this great feedback! I'd love to work for an Audio company - but I think you have to start your career in one - before your salary pushes you above that and they won't even look at you (as they know you are over their price range).
@JohnAudioTech 2 жыл бұрын
The JAT501 can work with 4 ohm loads up to 38 volts or 40v rails regulated with 8 ohm. Without regulation, the idle voltage can go a bit high and VAS transistor and current source would need heat sinking or they will run hot. In other words, a regulated supply will allow for more power into sustained notes because it allows the amp to be operated at a higher voltage without over voltage concerns due to higher voltages at idle or high mains voltage.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks John! That's a great point, we can't go above the Voltage Max, so the unloaded voltage could be a problem in an unregulated Power Supply.
@poormanselectronicsbench2021 2 жыл бұрын
I discovered one curious fact about longer AC service wire runs. I have a "home made" Isolation transformer, toroidial winding, about 600VA capacity, which I wired a quality "Thermal Magnetic"circuit breaker ( Phoenix Contact from Digi-key) into ( 5A rating) If I plug it into an outlet which is closer to the breaker panel in my house, the inrush current will trip the 5A breaker about 50% of the time. If I plug into an outlet on the second floor, at the furthest point from the breaker panel, it never trips from the inrush current. Apparently there's enough added resistance, or inductive suppression of the inrush current in the extra 40+ feet of wire to make that difference.
@jstro-hobbytech 2 жыл бұрын
That's really cool.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing this data from your test! I can totally see this happening. So an amplifier would have less inrush, but once the caps are charged - then the only difference would be the slightly lower voltage available because of that extra drop in line voltage. A regulated Power Supply would totally solve this problem.
@poormanselectronicsbench2021 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog It wasn't really a test as much as an observation. I started wondering why the 5A breaker wasn't tripping, and there was only one change to the configuration, the length of wire from the main breaker panel to my outlet of choice. Sometime soon I may put a meter with a min/max current measuring function on it and see what is going on quantatatively.
@leekumiega9268 5 ай бұрын
Back in the 80's & 90's Bob Carver's "magnetic field" amplifiers used a Triac on the input side of the power transformer driven by music demands to keep his power rails constant regardless of load or line voltage sags. His amps were comparatively light and energy efficient and were noted for their sound and amount of headroom compared to amps costing twice the price.
@KissAnalog 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback! I introduced my friend to these amps and he bought 2 of the cubes - I think they were called. He later bought a larger Carver amp for his subs. He loved them and played them for years. He had big speakers and likes to play his ACDC loud;) Bob may have introduced one of the first switching 'regulated' power supplies for an Audio Amplifier;)
@leekumiega9268 5 ай бұрын
They were known as the Carver Cube but the actual model was the M400 , like his Phase linear 700 ( which started as an amp he built stuffed into a coffee can at a McIntosh clinic and when asked where the transformer was Bob said outside on the pole ) the model stood for total power of 200 x 2 . I really liked his next design that weren't just regulated they were variable tracking power supplies that kept the rails at 6V above what was needed at that instant in time so only 6V was wasted as heat (they run cool prolonging the life of the caps ) and his Signature models could double the power as the impedance halved down to 2 ohms and could drive a 1 ohm load on a time limited basis. I have a Carver MXR 2000 (200 wpc ) and Sunfire Ultimate receiver 200 watts X7 ( it only doubles down in stereo 2 CH mode ) and love them. The hype made sense to me and turned out to be true . @@KissAnalog
@chrisstorm7704 Жыл бұрын
This video really addressed my confusion on the overall approach that audio industry has taken on power quality. If you are really obsessing over every possible source of distortion, even getting into some of the snake oil products out there, why would you overlook the low hanging fruit of using a regulated supply? It’s craziness.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris! I appreciate you! It is really crazy that there are so many questionable products out there - but right under their nose is the answer - but it costs money to hire engineers who know what they are doing. It is changing and they will not be able to ignore this for another decade;)
@fredflickinger643 7 ай бұрын
Eddie, way to get this out in the open! Love the impassioned cry for transparency in design!
@KissAnalog 7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much!
@wrlightssounds3579 Жыл бұрын
Power Amplifier: I am a power amplifier. Regulator: I regulate your power supply. Power Amplifier: You're dead!
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Your Power Amp has a regulated power supply? Wha?t brand and model is it
@wrlightssounds3579 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog no sir. what i mean for that comment is a conversation of the two. Power Amp VS. Regulator. 🤣 coz power amp need more power as it needed to give power to speakers and that's why we cant regulate its psu coz it draws prower from it, unless we have also a proper regulator, if not, that regulator will be dead. that's what i meant there. but i will share an idea to regulate a power supply from a power amp. simply we will just use an avr and regulate our AC input before it converts to DC inside our power amp. using an avr with a servo motor is highly recomended. and matching its rated power to our power amp, we will never be raning out of power anymore! 😉
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
OK I understand. The avr method will be more noisy than a linear regulated PS. The Amp is essentially a power supply regulated by the input signal and feedback. So yes, the PS would be large to be able to regulate it, but so if the amp is twice as big - then it is twice as big. But if this sounds crazy - think about the people selling power conditioners that are as big as an amp - or the expensive power cords that cost more than most amps that people have.
@nigelpearson6664 Жыл бұрын
Linear power supply is just a name. A half way approach is regulated up to the driver stage. The output dumpers will work in a similar way to a series regulator. No need to duplicate. PSRR is another word for it.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your feedback!
@gibbogle9486 2 жыл бұрын
There is so much silliness in the "audiophile" world. Whole industries have developed to remove $ from people with more $ than sense.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
I think I’d have to agree.
@cajuncoinhunter Жыл бұрын
Hey Mon Ami , this little unit has a great power supply in it , these things were built like a tank , just like older cars....Toshiba SA7150
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks - I'll have to look up the SA7150.
@versace885 2 жыл бұрын
HI Eddie, nice video. Thank you for the excellent tutoring.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@garydirkse9900 Жыл бұрын
I asked an audio fan why his amp had to have flat response to 100 kHz, about 90 Khz beyond his hearing. He said he could hear the sub harmonics of the hyper high notes. We have some expensive cults. He should use the 100 kHz stuff to chase away skeeters. I should sell my fishing tackle etc. Guys like toys, boats, test gear etc.. but, audio fans may be more skilful at self delusion than most. I am pushing 80 years old however, a rug and a sports car would help me attract young women. right
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
There are a lot of interesting ideas out there regarding Audio. I'll try to test and show what makes sense and what doesn't as time goes on;)
@petersage5157 Жыл бұрын
I wonder if what people call "transient response" with an unregulated power supply is actually what tube purist guitarists call sag. Many guitar amps have under-specced iron; some models made by CBS/Fender are famous for power transformers that can only deliver about half the current that the power amp tries to draw under heavy load, and the reservoir capacitors are small enough that the plate voltage literally sags in response. They're so far from stiff that I'd describe them as flaccid, but it's often an integral component in the sound that these guitarists are looking for in their music production equipment. "No other industry that has to re-cap their products"? I bet you got a lot of HVAC techs and auto repair guys laughing with that one! Also, many of Big Clive's and EEVBlog's repair videos involve replacing a Wun-Hun-Lo capacitor that has degraded, and practically none of those devices have anything to do with audio. And if you ever buy vintage test gear, I hope you do replace the electrolytics in it before you use it, and if it's tube gear that has paper/foil capacitors, you'll also want to replace those with modern poly.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your great feedback! Yes, instrument or guitar amps really do have their own sound. All kinds of built in distortions make up these types of amps. LOL, you are right, but I was specifically talking about the 'recap' term. This is commonly used in amplifier or audio equipment. It is true that repair techs replace caps to solve wear-out problems - probably more often than any other single type of component. Aluminum electrolytic are maybe the most unreliable device that we design in. Especially in electronics that try to save a dollar. Have you seen the video that I did talking specifically about reconditioning the aluminum electrolytic and how an older piece of equipment needs some attention before powering it up: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8eheMZn1b3Jlac.html
@johnsonlam 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks trying to collaborate with John. We need you both, since others are doing pure business and they might have something is true but not all. A power supply especially design for audio may take care something not usual for the daily life, definitely will benefit the community.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@0-60STYLE Жыл бұрын
I am familiar with the military industry and familiar with systems engineering, anyway, I love your channel and it's interesting hearing this stuff from an actual engineer and so relatable 😂 Keep doing what you're doing
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much! I appreciate you!
@windward2818 Жыл бұрын
Linear as in "Linear Power Supply" refers to the voltage regulator design, or more specifically the operation of the regulator pass amplifier (Like a transistor, which can be used as a linear pass element or a non-linear switch) in relation to a voltage reference. So a switching regulator would use a switching technique to regulate the output voltage in relation to a voltage reference. A front end with just a transformer, bridge and capacitor is called an unregulated supply. It is neither linear or switching regulated. To use the word "Linear" to describe it is wrong. It is also a misconception to think of a regulated power supply as a separate stand-alone entity (on a separate chassis or PCB from the audio amplifier) and if so, it should be a called a pre-regulator. Why, because the performance of a power supply at the output stage of an audio power amplifier is a measure of impedance at the amplifier power output rails (final stage). So, it is conceivable that you could have a switching pre-regulator and then a final stage linear regulator of very low impedance directly at the amp output stage. The point is, for the best performance of an audio power amplifier output stage, it is the output impedance of the power supplies at this stage, which translates to the best possible noise performance, and it is clear from a power supply design and testing standpoint that the lowest impedance is achieved using a regulated power supply. From a regulated power supply standpoint, an audio power amp output range (20Hz to 20kHz) is wide band. So, the regulated supply must provide a low impedance over this broad range of frequencies. The supply should be designed to satisfy the load, and to debate its effectiveness without knowing the requirements of the load is pointless. Similar to the above topology is how PC motherboard microprocessors (uP) are powered. There is a stand-alone pre-regulator or "power supply" that mounts in the computer chassis, and a purpose built switching regulator on the motherboard in close proximity to the load (the microprocessor, and the processor chip set). In a PC both the pre-regulator and the uP regulator are switching regulators.
@nikolatesla268 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video as allways. Im working on a 807 se amp at the moment. Im going all regulated now im convinced!
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Great - let us know how it works out.
@waltercheatle1794 2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps the "that's the way we always did it" comes from a time era (maybe 40 years ago) when perhaps there weren't sufficient components available to build a regulated supply to handle the high current requirements of the output stage of 100+ watt amps of 40 years ago. I don't know, I'm just guessing.
@SianaGearz 2 жыл бұрын
Funny thing, i would say that a Class-A/B/AB amplifier is per se a form of a linear power supply, even though its actual power supply component is unregulated. With the momentary output voltage being regulated to be input signal multiplied by set gain, ideally. It's possible to approach it as such; for example to only explicitly regulate the voltage as it goes into the voltage gain stage, and just filter the power with the help of some chokes as it goes to the power transistors. You have to get your PSRR from somewhere though, you shouldn't just make up a synthetic test which makes your design look good while it can fail in the real world. I think similar whole-system approaches like that can be applied to discrete Class D amplifiers as well, though it gets correspondingly more complicated.
@lasskinn474 2 жыл бұрын
As long as you don't hit the rails then yeah. The audio inputs the level times gain and the gains not dependent on the rails voltages, without input output caps it'll be a dc regulator essentially controlled by the signal input voltage, right? Ideally anyway
@Ormaaj 2 жыл бұрын
Thing is 95% of the complexity that might apply to generic test applications can be ignored when you're only be concerned with audio frequencies and a narrow selection of common amplifier categories. I designed and built my own version of a "power conditioning" system for high frequency test and measurement applications that provides multiple channels for test equipment, power supplies, and connected DUT that must account for myriad interactions and side-effects such as multiple upstream independent sources including 3-phase power under various system grounding configurations. I've discovered all kinds of interactions among equipment that I'm pretty sure are almost always overlooked and would only be found by considering an entire system such as this. I'll just say how you derive, supply, and/or condition your ground(s) is at least as important as the associated DC and/or AC phases (obviously, but there are some not so obvious aspects to it too, even before piling on the EMI considerations).
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback Daniel! Is there a specific example that you might feel is directly relevant to an audio amplifier and its power supply?
@nigelpearson6664 Жыл бұрын
Lastly. Regulators allowed transistors to be used to the maximum. Quad 303 was regulated to 67Volts. Now 230 vdc transistors are cheap. No need for regulators.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your feedback! If you are being really critical - as someone building Audiophile type amplifiers - then regulation can help. The gain of the transistors does change with applied voltage, so if it is moving around - then that can have an effect - even if it is only small.
@kb6dxn 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, maybe show some designs for tube power supplies and solid state power supplies with regulation for us DIY amp builders.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks James. I'll have to do this in upcoming videos.
@RCook-iy4xk 2 жыл бұрын
Build one JAT with regulation and on without - then listen and measure! Won't that settle this issue? I can't Wait.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
That is a great idea! Thanks for your feedback!
@user-ck4jn2pj1l 6 ай бұрын
I have a Naim NAP180, the rail is +-40V unregulated. I found Hypex SMPS1200A100 got +-40V outputs as well. Would it be worth to try a Hypex power supply? Thanks.
@KissAnalog 6 ай бұрын
I always loved the Naim gear - but just never owned one. I think it would be great to try a regulated supply and see if it does make a difference. I think many of us here would love to hear your experience with this.
@nigelpearson6664 Жыл бұрын
There is a sound difference using a good regulated PSU. It isn't universally better. Polite is the best word. Naim NAP 250 works well. Quad 303 sometimes shorts it's PSU. It can sound more dynamic broken.
@stevenbliss989 Жыл бұрын
I love your term "low frequency switcher". You bet I am going to steal it! :) ...and you are completely correct! :) ...not to mention PF horrors!
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks Steven!! LOL maybe the term will stick;)
@stevenbliss989 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog It deserves to stick and become common place, it is brilliant! :)
@sparkyskinner4729 2 жыл бұрын
Lots of very cool ideas and comments around your PS video. To me and my ears this is the bottom line. When you look into an SP-11 and see the design work around the Power Supplies in this unit, you start to understand just what your talking about here Kiss Analog. My understanding is that audio amplifiers are just DC modulated signals. Well if this is true, then we had better start out with an absolutely perfect DC signal or else it will influence the modulation of the DC as the amplifier recreates the mini signal into a more powerful signal. I agree with you here in that any such perpetration on the pure DC signal feeding the amp will add distortion to the original signal. With that being said, even as the amp uses DC power to recreate the AC signal , this will in effect cause the DC to modulate , at the power supply side of the amp, which will in turn cause distortion during the DC modulation of even more signals coming into to be amplified. This seems to be an never ending circle of distortion. Seems we need to also be concerned about the perpetration coming from after the power supply meaning the amp itself. Wonder if we might even try to predict the effects of this so as to minimize the effects of the music playing and also the ripple of the incoming power all at the same time so that the amplifier will see continuous, perfectly smooth DC, as perfectly smooth as possible and this is the goal. This would amount to a feed forward type of feed back. Generally speaking, I've always viewed linear regulators as voltage devices were as shunt regulators to be current regulating devices. Hmmmmm. maybe a combo of both would be the ticket. I agree too with your rant. The Power Supply should be regulated and with all the amps that I have built over the years, I wouldn't even dream of building an amp without a regulator. The regulators are becoming more complicated but also more simplistic in there topology. Maybe what we could do is charge a bunch of big storage batteries and then remove the charging system from commercial AC and use just the batteries to power our amps so that we might get the purest DC of all. Hmmmmm, I wonder if you might hear the chemical reaction happening in the battery as it produces the power to feed the amp ?? Thanks for a great vid Eddie.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Sparky for the great feedback. I'll have to do some testing to try to show whether there's any benefit of linear regulating the power supply;)
@mfr58 8 ай бұрын
I like that, "low frequency switching power supply". I never thought about it that way before! Now you say it. it seems obvious. Cheers. The power supply capacitor is in series with the o/p signal loop, so is likely to make a big difference to how the amp sounds. The reason people don't use regulated power supplies is largely expense. The regulator has to have enough compliance voltage to allow for line fluctuations and heavy transient current draw by the amp. Lots of waste heat and lots of hardware. But as you say, manufacturers then try to sell you line regenerators instead. I think you are onto something regarding power circuit voltage drops. I have to disagree about "we can measure it if we can hear it". Listening to music involves our whole mind body complex not just our ears. Our ability to measure nature is very simplistic and within the bandwidth of our technological world view and equipment. Measuring stuff is very useful, but it's not the last word on the matter. Best. M
@robertballa4511 2 жыл бұрын
That's right these so called "Audiophiles" claim to hear the differences in power cords. Another group are looking for rail to rail garbage to be in their output stage.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Robert!
@arfer1470 2 жыл бұрын
Some manufacturers do regulate the output rails, Naim did this with their NAP250 back in 1975, unfortunately the circuit it powered was straight out of the RCA datasheet and wasn't that great so not all the benefits of regulation were heard. It probably all comes down to cost that it isn't common, but it is surprising more of the costly amps do not employ it. You are right about the measurements, there are indeed many other types of measurement, than just plain old Thd. But even Thd measurements can be more insightful providing they are done across the whole frequency range and at different amplitudes, instead of just for a single 1kHz tone which some use on its own to decide if a design topology is good or bad. I did some experiments regulating just the front end (not the driver and output stages) of a couple of amplifiers a while back and used my HP 8903 distortion analyser to sweep from 20Hz to 100kHz and found a reduction in distortion both at low frequencies due to removal of mains ripple, and also at high frequencies due to removal of ripple caused by the amplifier itself at the test frequency. Just regulating these stages allowed the use of small regulators that took up little space and were not expensive.
@montgomeryhifiandreview5528 2 жыл бұрын
Wait doesnt the Dynaco ST-120 also have a regulated power supply?
@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty_1 10 ай бұрын
NAD3020 also had regulated preamp and driver power supply. Also have an 8903 and running sweeps is a form of FFT. It's very interesting to see resonance in power supplies. Music listening is essentially white noise played at loud levels (high current). Phase and resonance don't seem to be thought important.
@garydirkse9900 Жыл бұрын
We like your rants. I have new rants for you to consider. Specs given are often misleading and specs hidden, can be frustrating. Discretes or IC's usually. Latest problem was with monostable timers. The sometimes published fall times are way off and get far worse with longer pulse widths. SOA can be a good spec but a hobbyist might see the current rating for a mosfet and not notice that it is for one microsecond or less. smoke.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Those are some great ideas!
@nbextremebotting Жыл бұрын
Ever thought of experiments regarding multiple rectifiers but phase shifted? supplementing eachother into a completion.. ? and then smoothing/regulating that ?
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Great question! Do you mean with a watcher?
@nbextremebotting Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalogI'm not so knowledgeable in electronics that I know what a watcher is, but I know of 3 phase PSU's with each phase rectified, that allow you to overlap parts of their rectified halfsinuses so that there are no deep dips, and every moment is covered with a good buffer. It still needs smoothing, but as far as my understanding goes, allows for better continuous supply..
@JasonLeaman 2 жыл бұрын
YOU mean if i buy this $10,000 Power conditioner my Class D amplifier would sound way better ? DEAL !! #facepalm..
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Perfect! LOL
@woosix7735 2 жыл бұрын
it would be cool to actually have an test amplifier and a power supply and measure the difference between regulator and no regulator
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks - that's a great idea;) Have you seen this video where I compare an amplifier working with a switching power supply vs a linear regulated power supply? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iKdkoNKcvKu0hZs.html
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
PSRR. Power Supply Reject Ratio, Eddy. Consider a video on that, please.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for asking!! I really do want to do this;) I’ll do it soon.
@phillipgraham2244 2 жыл бұрын
I need to dig around and find that paper where they show the line frequency leaking in on the beloved Fender Bass man was noticeable part of the sound vibe.
@stevebailey1682 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Eddie...I really enjoyed your discussion on this. Will you be showing (in another video) how to regulate a power supply...something with some real power? Thanks.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Steve! Yes, I'll do this in videos to come shortly.
@hoobsgroove 2 жыл бұрын
I was wondering why we don't see in linear power supplies capacitor multiplier, using coupled transistors, that'll get rid of your ripple.
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
It's a gimmick. There are several kit versions of cap multipliers, I don't recall the name.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
I think they don't use linear PS because of the added size, weight, and cost.
@northox 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Hey, for those buying those type of power cable... how can they explain not changing the cable from the outlet to the breaker?!?? All nonsense.
@pennfootball71 Жыл бұрын
How does a "choke" power supply work in comparison when they add a choke instead of a bulk capacitor?
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Great question! An inductor can be used with a capacitor to provide an LC filter. This can help reduce voltage ripple.
@pennfootball71 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog oh wow thank you so much! My Lampizator dac has a choke power supply with an inductor and cap after the transformer. It has Vacuum tubes too. 2 input for gain and 2 output tubes. I had it recapped with Audionote and VCaps and it came with a lot of junky parts for a 6000 DAC! My amps are Mola Mola Kaluga class D amps with switching power supplies and a class A Luxman L-590 AX II. But the best amps I ever heard were Pilium from Greece. Second best are Audionet from Germany. Take a look at the pictures online of the Pilium Leonidas integrated amp. It is a beast.
@johnsonlam 2 жыл бұрын
Why not switching power supply for the industry? People pay such a large amount of money because of the "heavy chassis and the giant toroidal transformer", back to a primitive items exchange era before we have money, high price for something paper light? Why not buy something look much worth the value?
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
I think a switcher would be a great idea. I talked about this in this other Rant video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMibrKqdyZbDfIU.html
@Ormaaj 2 жыл бұрын
The impact of the supply on an amplifier depends enormously upon its topology, so there can be many aspects to this that don't generalize to all designs. Often amplifiers include various forms of "regulation" in a manner integral to their architecture. Additional pre-regulation steps can be understood by combining the regulator and amplifier and considering the overall composite circuit as an amplifier unto itself. Obvious illustrations of this can be found in architectures that literally nest one amplifier within another, such as the class H, but there are many other subtle ways in which parts of an amp can implement effectively equivalent regulation functions. Whether or not a linear regulator actually serves to "isolate" anything depends on its context. An ordinary VDMOS power FET datasheet isn't going to directly tell you anything about its linear characteristics I'm afraid. All of those graphs assume full on or off gate voltages.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Daniel for this great feedback! Regulating the input stage does make a big difference. The final output stage is probably the stage that could be most effected by ripple. The parameters in the data sheet do show there are dynamic behaviors do to the voltage across the device - although it is difficult to tell what exactly that relationship is.
@ronaldhofman1726 2 жыл бұрын
The most power is drawn at the bass frequency's , because of the speaker 2 x pi x F x l,power suply sould be able to handle that, otherwise it wil interfere with the signal, when the power rail is dropping within the working area of the amplifier.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
@Ronald Hofman Yes this could be a problem. Choosing a transformer voltage high enough and the right size of capacitors should be enough. Adding a linear regulator would solve this as well - and help keep the voltage across the output devices solid (stiff). This could correct any issues with ripple voltage.
@CircularMirror7 Жыл бұрын
Great explanation 👌
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!!
@bigfoottoo2841 2 жыл бұрын
I use a Sola constant voltage transformer.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Nice. Have you noticed improvements or is it a safety measure?
@woodowoodo1405 2 жыл бұрын
With the Macintosh MC 30 you found recently, would there be improvements to the sound if these concepts were applied to it?
@ronaldhofman1726 2 жыл бұрын
With unregulated , you mean that that the big elco's after the greatz circuit , must keep the voltage steady, the big advantage of a regulator is the big 10^5 or higher common mode rejection ratio, if that faisls and a ripple will appear , yuo will hear noise at the speakers.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback Ronald!
@kfbejoyable 11 ай бұрын
Video has good content and explanation......But 42 mins of talking with some pictures and white board talking...what about those equipments in the background ( Show wall).. could've used some of them for the explanation..
@KissAnalog 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for your feedback. It was just a rant;) Here's a video where I compare a switching vs a linear power supply
@stevenbliss989 Жыл бұрын
A tracking hybrid switcher/linear is ideal for audio. Maybe some audio store can sell this ...efficiency and electrical quietness!
@stevenbliss989 Жыл бұрын
ZVS topologies like phase shift bridge or other resonant types would be even quieter! ...in fact the slower response time of resonant, but the quietest ZVS topology, with a post linear reg is maybe a match made in heaven for efficiency, size and clean output. :) ...of course a front stage PFC should be there, but standard boost topologies are noisy, but there are ZVS PFC systems as well, I think Not sure where I read about them, but if I find it I''ll tell you :)
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Yes, i do like the soft switchers, but the problem in finding one off the shelf is that most have bridge rectifier inputs vs PFC. I want to start with PFC and end in a soft switcher - with great LC post filtering;) I'm designing one now for the JAT colaboration;)
@stevenbliss989 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Well now you're just being picky! :):):)
@peteb2 2 жыл бұрын
Yikes, what a crazy coincidence. Spent the week helping out a not too familiar guy with minimal electronics experience remotely via Messaging to resurrect his deceased Dad's old now very vintage stereo amp with 2N3055 output stage. It came down to the crazy basic REGULATOR circuit, two series pass transistors for the +/- GND OV rail feed that no matter what he did it would not work, even disconnected from the rest amp circuit....! Yeah it has a big lump of iron (transformer). The circuit just would not work so i put it through iCircuit simulator of my iPad.. & it's gotta be the dang 24V zener that's acting as a reference... which i really want him to replace! FWIW never get involved in something like this!
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
LOL - well it sounds like you did a great job hunting down the problem;)
@davidatrakchi2707 Жыл бұрын
It did make a lot of sense, thanks
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Great! Thanks for your feedback!
@ronaldhofman1726 2 жыл бұрын
In the past a alway purchased Kenwood equipment , that was rock solid, heavey ,they where as 2 x mono amplifier , with double power supply , Kenwood said to minimize intereference between de channels,, but sounded awesome.,, my lasat one was a KA-7020, died because of current mirror, changed the fet dat regulated this , but shortly after power on , it burned the transistor,, so decided to get rid of it , because i did not used it anymore, now i have a Yamaha RX-671 receiver with i am very happy.
@dennis2494 2 жыл бұрын
if you design one please list parts and where we can find them and if there is a PCB please give us the file to have one built or maybe you can have them built and sell them to us. I would be interested in building the complete amplifier.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I sure will have boards available - probably from the board vendor that you can order directly. We'll see what makes sense when we get there.
@doglucky1709 2 жыл бұрын
I think so chopper controlling after regulated V-out that is more cost circuit with inductor converters. it was ripple will be have so necessary increase capacitance what were great size with your desk there near.
@mickblackmore290 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Who knew stating the obvious could be so funny. If they only knew!.... Awesome RANT!
@kuglepen64 2 жыл бұрын
By their own admission Pass Labs sells power amplifiers by the pound (yes, by the weight). That is what they say to the class-d salesmen coming to their door.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
That's awesome! You gotta love Nelson Pass!
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
The class d salesman will also say they sell their amps by the pound.
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Nelson's designs feature unregulated, very large energy storage caps. Takes a lot of swimming pool peak transients to empty Hoover Dam. He did power a kit amplifier with a "wall wart" switcher, though.
@modrobert 2 жыл бұрын
I would like to see the schematics for the linear regulator you had in mind (you showed an example schematic of the power supply including the diode rectifier with capacitor, but the regulator was an empty box). After searching around a linear regulator seems to involve an op amp (sometimes several op amps), a transistor, resistor drop for feed and capacitors, found many variations. Maybe you buy the regulator as an IC package? Not sure how it is sold.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Robert! I'll come up with a design and show it in an upcoming video. It would be cool if I could find one from a great designer who has done this for a respected brand. I'd think that someones has done this, but otherwise I'll come up with a design;)
@robertballa4511 2 жыл бұрын
You can quite simply use mosfet pass devices, with a very high RCR on the gate.You don't really have to regulate it per say, you just get rid of all the Ripple.But if you want to regulate the high power rail if you can.The voltage amp at a minimum should always be regulated.
@montgomeryhifiandreview5528 2 жыл бұрын
Wait im confused. Im no electrical engineer but i thought the reason they were called linear power supplies is because the input volt and the output voltage follow each other in a linear fashion? I wasnt to mask that they are basically "Dumb" power supplies. Idk maybe i dont know what im talking about..
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great question! I'd imagine many people can take your description as what a linear PS is, so it is a rational logical definition. But, Switching Power Supplies - un-regulated can follow the input voltage variations too. So an un-regulated 'linear' power supply (which is really a low frequency switcher) and an un-regulated High Frequency Switcher can both have outputs that follow the changing input somewhat linearly. So, this definition doesn't really track. Usually, when power engineers talk Linear vs Switcher - we are referring to the type of regulation. What we used to call a low frequency power supply a step up or step down - depending on the transformer turns ratio. Most power supplies are regulated - and a low freq switcher is usually regulated with a Linear (regulated) power stage. I think when power people talk about Linear PS, they think low freq - otherwise when they talk about switchers - they think High-Frequency switching.
@mihaibalint8183 2 жыл бұрын
some guys do say that with regulated PS will limit dynamic power of an amp. is that true?
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Not at all. It will actually improve the dynamic range. Thanks for asking!
@bobbysparky4299 2 жыл бұрын
Please remember that Ed is talking about PSU's that have been designed and implemented with at least a minimum amount of competence.
@volodumurkalunyak4651 5 ай бұрын
If an amplifier is limited by amount of power it pulls from the power grid - then maybe. In that case class D amplifier with actual high-frequency switching power supply make the most sense.
@elnurm.3431 2 жыл бұрын
it don't make sense from performance perspective is the reason they are not regulated, audio amp circuit in itself is just a sophisticated regulator
@jeffjacobs9040 2 жыл бұрын
Sort of off topic, but does the same rant apply to stepper motor power supplies? It's common in CNC to use unregulated linear supplies to (as I understand it) better handle the peak power needs and the reverse power generated from decelerating motors. It would seem the same would be needed for handling power from woofers -- which seem like a motor of sorts.
@SunilAruldas Жыл бұрын
The power supply could be either unregulated or regulated. If regulated, then linear or switching or some variant. So "unregulated linear" is a bit unclear I'm afraid.
@haraldh.9354 Жыл бұрын
I agree, but where are the measurements, which you promised,, ;))
@davidkclayton 2 жыл бұрын
Bob Carver made some amplifiers with unconventional power supplies
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Great point! Yes, I think what he did was regulate the AC with SCRs and use an inductor / capacitor to smooth it out. Another 'low frequency' switching PS;) I think Carver's amps were totally cool.
@pennfootball71 Жыл бұрын
lol Audio companies are cheap? oh yes they are. One summit fi DAC company used to not buy any part over $10.
@KissAnalog Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your feedback! It is too bad that they don’t try harder to make better designs, but then a lot of customers don’t know to demand more.
@pennfootball71 Жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Lemmings everywhere! They go off brand and resale value. IT is not a hedge fund.
@prasadhlyalkar9746 24 күн бұрын
Send me PS audio amp I will put regulated supply on that 😀
@KissAnalog 23 күн бұрын
LOL love it!
@prasadhlyalkar9746 23 күн бұрын
@KissAnalog any waysi I did asked him that question 6 years back and got answer and finally built lm3886 amp using smps and lm series regulatored Power Supply and still works .and sounds great compared to transformer based .
@ronaldhofman1726 2 жыл бұрын
Thicker cable is what i use , because of the lower frequency's (bass), my JBL speakers are in bridge mode, sounds great.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ronald - that is most likely all that is needed;)
@JohnUsp 2 жыл бұрын
Wow Overnight video, cool....
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks - just decided to post after working on it all day:)
@JohnUsp 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog cool... all of us have insomnia, LOL
@HipocratesAG 2 жыл бұрын
Psychoacoustics explain the difference on power cables, non regulated PS are simple and works for the application and easier to fix. Now let's measure a well designed amplifier regulated vs non regulated and see.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Sergio! That is the next step;)
@NeverTalkToCops1 2 жыл бұрын
Psychoacoustics explains the difference on power cables? Show us the science.
@davidkclayton 2 жыл бұрын
PS audio is not going to upgrade their amplifiers to include a decent power supply because then they wouldn't be able to sell you another box for power conditioning
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
That's probably true David - sorry to think... But the new amp could have some sexy marketing name and look to make it sell like pancakes;)
@john_hind 2 жыл бұрын
I joked about selling batteries to audiophiles in response to your mains lead scam video, but the fact remains that the only pure DC comes from a battery! Why not have big lithium batteries (series cells with a centre tap, no boost converters or switching polarity reversers!)? Sell an expensive box that automatically charges the batteries from the mains when the amplifier is switched off and completely isolates from the mains when the amp is in use.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks John, that is actually something that I think some people would buy;) But, I'm interested if an actual regulated power supply would do the same - albiet there could be some high freq noise, so I should say a filtered linear regulated power supply.
@mz1690 2 жыл бұрын
This exists! Like the QULOOS PS1 Battery supply, but there are other/bigger builds with battery or dual supercaps somewhere online... It's somehow said, that the noise from batteries under load is bigger than a proper low noise switching supply...
@kwpctek9190 2 жыл бұрын
Memorial day weekend has Ed a little tipsy?🍺🍺Go for it!! 😂Whatever floats your back teeth!
@MrSmokingsanta 2 жыл бұрын
I think the input stage of many (if not all) high quality amplifiers is still regulated. It is just the power section that is not regulated. The reason is that you need a lot of headroom to make the LDO (linear regulator) to function. You’ll have to account for the worst case power line voltage, variations in transformer output…etc. At the end of the day, the output voltage after the LDO will be quite a bit lower than the voltage available at the rectifier output, which means that the power rating of your amplifier will suffer, in the name of making the output stage rails regulated. Also, the output stage is usually just a source or emitter follower, which should not strongly depend on the rail voltages. So there’s no good reason why linear amplifiers need fully regulated power supplies. On the other hand, class D amplifiers will strongly depend on the power supply. In that case SMPS will work very well, since the high switching frequency is very easy to filter out. You can’t hear it even if you don’t. I have heard DIY audiophiles use linear (unregulated) power supplies for class D, thinking that anything ‘linear’ is supposed to provide audiophile experience, which is the dumbest thing to do. I’m an ‘audiophile’ but also an engineer, but I guess I don’t have golden ears so I can’t hear most of the ‘improvement’ that audiophiles can hear.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback! I do want to point out that a linear power supply is a regulated power supply. If it is not regulated it is actually a low frequency switcher or pulsing power supply. What makes it ‘linear’ is the regulation. To make a linear/regulated power supply for the output section - yes you take all those things that you mentioned in consideration to design the power supply, and then the amplifier does not suffer. Actually it is only then that you can guarantee a specified power supply. I’d like to also correct your use of “LDO”. An LDO is a low-drop-out regulator where for an audio amplifier can not use a ‘low’ drop out, but actually as you said needs a lot of headroom. No worries though - the term ‘LDO’ is misused today on a regular basis. The reason to regulate the emitter-follower stage is to keep the current gain of that stage more flat where if the rail voltage is changing it does affect that - even if only slightly. Remember, there are those who will spend thousands on a power cable that the benefits can not be measured! The effects of voltage changing on the rails can certainly be measured. Regards to class-D amps, the power rails could be non-regulated as well, but why!? I was going to do a power supply for a company that actually wanted an unregulated power supply for their new Class D amp. They said because they always did that way - since their Clara A/B ways, but I changed their mind:)
@h1nicolas 2 жыл бұрын
The reason why that power cable may make a difference may be due to the cable being able to transfer higher frequency content to charge the capacitors better due to its geometry or build. Commutation of the rectifiers only occurs when the supply voltage exceeds the capacitor voltage plus the volt drop of the diodes in the rectifier, there is a very small amount of time for the capacitors to get charged up. The current waveform is rich in harmonics that exceed 100/120Hz.This is why if you add a power conditioner it could make the sound worse since the current is passing through an inductance which is reducing the upper harmonics which is reducing the current to charge the capacitors. Having larger capacitors in the supply, this makes the current waveform even more pronounced having very large peaks, so a thick cable will really help in transferring the energy into the capacitors with minimal loss. These harmonics generated by the rectifiers are reduced by the amplifier in the input stage differential amplifier, which in a voltage feedback amplifier has good power supply rejection ratio, if the gains of each transistor in the differential amplifier are adequately matched. So perhaps a poorly matched differential amplifier maybe the issue to hearing this difference?
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great feedback! The inductance in the transformer is far bigger than other inductances in the connectivity between the transformer and power outlet on the wall. The harmonics and such are part of the lost power that is transferred and is part of the Power Factor.
@andydelle4509 2 жыл бұрын
Your theory, while plausible, still ignores the length difference of the 6 foot power cord versus the 50 to 100 feet of #12 or #14 commodity electrical cable in the walls.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy, but the transformer inductance still swamps out the 100 feet of electrical cable to the receptacle. But this goes to show how little effect an expensive power cable can have. It is only maybe 4 feet long to the amp compared to the 50 to 100 feet of romex before it. The expensive power cable can do nothing to improve it - but a really bad cable could make it worse. A decent sized cable can only preserve what came from the wall plate - but can not make it better. That's why so many 'real' engineers call it snake oil.
@davidkclayton 2 жыл бұрын
conventional power supply
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks David. Yes in a way, but conventional could mean an actual Linear regulated power supply, or it could mean a low frequency switching power supply;)
@johnshaw359 2 жыл бұрын
Regulation limits dynamic power to be the same as RMS power, so you get dynamic compression. It would seem a better idea not to regulate the PSU for a PSU to my way of thinking. Let your pass elements and reservoir caps determine the mppt at any given moment.
@electronicengineer 2 жыл бұрын
Precisely. It really is this simple.
@sss8909 2 жыл бұрын
no they're not. How did you come to this conclusion ? depends on regulator type , in most cases dynamic power will be better.
@bobbysparky4299 2 жыл бұрын
sss... Well said young man!
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
@John Shaw Thanks for your feedback John. But, this is the lie they tell us. A regulated power supply will improve the dynamic power exponentially. Here's the reason - power regarding the voltage is V squared multiplied by R. A regulated power supply holds the rail above the peaks of the sinewave - and provides the current much-much faster than a low frequency switcher operating at 120 Hz. A regulated power supply provides a true voltage source - and provides current as needed - when needed. This is why they regulate the input stage and all pre-amps. There is absolutely no technical way or measurable way that a non regulated power supply can keep up. I've shown this in developing the 20 Watt Class A amp series.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Fred - but dynamic behavior is improved dramatically with a regulated power supply
@indepthcardetailing2254 2 жыл бұрын
First 👋
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Nice job;)
@skip1835 2 жыл бұрын
Kiss, a bit about your power cord take - no audiophile I know would buy a 250 dollar cord and think that nails it, I suggest a bit of backing off on the generalizing - - - no one I know would expect much if any difference in sound between a 50 dollar nice cord like you're showing, which is fine by me and should sound fine, or a 250 dollar cord that most likely falls into the category of padding the manufacturer's wallet more than bringing better sound - myself - I'd put them in the same category before I even tried them, that is, I wouldn't expect much if any sound change, but I'd still try each one, which sort of puts my point on the table. You don't seem to want to do that - - so like I've already urged, I'd love to see you do some actual listening tests with some actual high end cords - a 250 dollar cord, imho, doesn't fall into that "high end" category - in reality, it's those super high end cords you're saying can't make a difference, right? So, if you're right then prove it using listening "too" - again, the reason for my rant to you is that I know they make a difference though my own messing around, what I want to know is: why? Enough of the easy responses: " you're suffering from the placebo effect", if that's your quick response then cut the crap - - anyway, especially given that your specialty is power supplies, maybe you're the guy to figure that science out, wipe your slate clean, perhaps start from listening for differences and "then" measure and search for correlations - - and yeah, you'd need to have access to reference level listening gear, the kind of gear with high enough resolution to hear subtle changes in components and cables, until then you're only bringing us half the story which is your personal "science" take on power cords but again, yes, I do respect - and is the primary reason I'm appealing to you or even bothering to comment. I don't personally care about this so called controversy, but seeing as this clash is constantly thrown about, imho, it's about time someone matched up equipment like Jay is using in Jay's Audio Lab with some high end measuring gear - - and geese, even at that level of listening and measuring, I'd be personally amazed if there's enough measuring science to come to an understanding of why cords at these high levels, even between themselves, sound different - and they do, no hypnotism needed. Delete this if you like, it's just a way of reaching out to you personally with my own findings as an audiophile with reference level playback gear. Oh, and hey, don't think that I don't absolutely think that prices starting at 3 to 5K aren't stupid - 10K, how about 25K and even more for cords? - No argument from me, that part of the equation IS completely stupid. Later Kiss, and thanks.
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Skip for this great feedback. Why would I delete it - you bring up great points and I welcome the challenge to test. My rant is just to bring up the subject and prepare the road that I will set out and show what if any differences that we can measure. And I will not reserve my measurements to the THD which is elementary. I would like to defend myself and say that I did not generalize, I did say that there are those that wouldn't buy the expensive cable - and there are those that would - and inferred that there are those in between that might be happy with the power cord that I held up. Also, this video is specifically in response to the rationalization that I have made that those power cords could make a difference - and suggesting that an actual Regulated 'Linear' Power Supply would solve the problem and provide an actual real Voltage Source; thus, eliminating any low frequency and/or high frequency issue at the Amplifier. I think I can show that this $50 power cord can make a difference at the low frequency switching power supply. I have some ideas of tests that will illuminate the differences between the BS and Science. I appreciate your feedback;)
@skip1835 2 жыл бұрын
@@KissAnalog Thanks my friend - - I'll be looking forward to what you have in mind - - 🙏
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@jstro-hobbytech 2 жыл бұрын
Are we finally going to see you get into the weeds and physically build this puppy or what? Maybe we'll see if you've forgotten how to solder as I suspect is the case hahaha
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
Yes Joey - we are getting our hands dirty soon:) BTW, I remember how to solder - I was just never taught how to solder these tinsy parts - LOL!
@netautorisationnetautorisa545 2 жыл бұрын
*YOU ARE **#STILL** (TALKING AND TALKING AND TALKING ) ...* *WILL YOU **#DO** "SOMETHING" OR **#NOT** ......*
@KissAnalog 2 жыл бұрын
What did you want me to do? This is a rant video;)
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