My grandfather lived in Camberwell. Once whilst digging in his vegetable patch he uncovered a sea shell and when he put it to his ear he swore he could hear a Bakerloo line train coming.

South London has many transport options, none of them good. For the real fun, try going from SE London to SW London... Make sure you have a couple of days to spare.

Thanks Jago. You are a star. Contrary to my youtube name, I too live south of the river. Getting home after late nights out turn into very Heath Robinson affairs. Tube, train, bus and walks over Thames footbridges accompanied only by the sound of hooting owls. Now if only South West Railway could be persuaded to run a night train service. I won't hold my breath on that one.

South London has lots of railways but they are an absolute mess to navigate (because of the history of inter-railway competition); the infrastructure is all there but it could really do with service simplification to get that tube-like ease of use

The biggest problem living south of the river without tube lines, is that you can't get to other parts of central London without changing at Victoria, Charing Cross, Waterloo, London Bridge, Cannon Street etc. Which means a lot of walking through tunnels to the Underground, getting a taxi, queuing for the bus (or even walking to your final destination). Thus, there is a good case for extending tube lines out onto the railway lines in south London.

It's because in North London we have little blue plaques saying "Somebody famous lived here" and in South London you have big yellow signs saying "Did you witness this murder?"

Growing up in south east London in the 60s and 70s where there was no underground apart from new cross (+gate) it was obvious to me that LT, as was, needed the space on the map for the index/key/legend!

There are a decent amount of stations in South London even if they're served by rail rather than underground. What we're missing is an "across" line that works like the central line linking east to west. Currently you have to go to London Bridge, which adds a huge amount of time to the journey. If you could get a line that links somewhere like Dartford to Twickenham with stops in the middle that would be great. Also I get that this video is about underground lines and the cells, but also the oyster zone spreads a lot further into the north, east and west of London and into the surrounding counties. It doesn't quite do the same in the Southeast especially which can be fruatrating. Any idea why that is?

"Today, Verney Junction. Tomorrow, the world!" You gotta admire the ambition at least.

Thank you great video! I've lived in both sides of the Thames and now reside near Crystal Palace and have always been amazed that no Tube exists between London and Croydon. The Overground is not an adequate substitute and the Tram is a local affair. The joy of a tube arriving every three or four minutes at Norwood Junction will remain a dream forever I fear :(

I wouldn't mind the Northern Line extending to Sutton, they might even consider Terminating it at Epsom Downs (Hint Hint)

Simple answer from Mark K: "south of the river you stop and hold everything."

Verney have been a local family for centuries. They owned much of the land nearby. Verney junction was planned to be a major interchange with three lines, including the Varsity, Aylesbury and North Buckingham lines. It predated the underground expansion.

Jago: "...but that's a whole other story..." Me: "Wonderful, can't wait to hear about it!" Geoff Marshall: "Actually, everything's 15 storeys..." Me: "Wonderful, can't wait to hear about it!"

Growing up in south west London, I was used to railway stations everywhere. It came as a surprise to discover how relatively few there are on this side of the Thames. Separately, again when I was a boy, I understood that the R Effra was a significant obstacle to underground lines south of Brixton?

I go through Verney Junction from time to time and I always thought it was rather cool that the Metropolitan Railway reached all the way out to meet the LNWR in deepest Buckinghamshire. These days the branches to Baker Street and Buckingham are mostly occupied by cows but the main line should be open Real Soon Now.

Thanks Jago for another slice of history. I had always assumed South London didn't get much tube love due to the soil. Glad you pointed out the other reasons.Before the night busses were a thing I used to hate going south from Muswell Hill to see people because I would have to cut the time short before heading home. --- Yes I know I'm showing my age !

Why do people keep protesting to Noah Vale? He never does anything about it.

I think the best method of giving South and SE London "tube" lines would be to convert existing commuter routes into something similar to London Overground or Tfl Rail. I believe this is the other option for adding places like Hayes and Beckenham Junction to the tube network which seems way more realistic tbh but it just depends on whether the government will allow it.

The Bakerloo Line extension, should it ever happen, would be a piece of p!ss to run from Lewisham to Hayes. It's crying out to be made a tube line. It's a scabby branch line currently run by Southeastern (well , not any more since they got caught with their hands in the till, but I digress). Change the signals, change the signage, et voila. It won't happen in my lifetime though. Because Bromley Council. In Bromley, the car is king. In Bromley, people go into a cold sweat at the sight of a TfL roundel because they like to think they are in Kent. They haven't been since 1965, but hey. Putting roundels up on those stations on the Hayes Line would have the local pitchfork wielders out, ready to repel invaders from "the Sharm". Of course, the trains already run that way, but if you had 12 per hour that's a different matter. Actually, I reckon that's what's really at the heart of it. The councillors for West Wickham and Hayes don't fancy 12 trains an hour in each direction going past the end of their gardens while they're having a Pimms in their sex ponds on a balmy summer evening. One could, of course, point out the impact of having a tube line nearby on local house prices... But that doesn't seem to wash. It may happen one day. Not in my lifetime though.

So the reason The Krays never ventured into South London was not because of the vicious reputation of The Richardson gang but because they could not get the tube

Verney Junction was named after Sir Harry Verney who was not only the chairman of the Aylesbury and Buckingham Railway Company but also lived at Claydon House. The railway station was built within the parish of Middle Clayton which was part of his family's estate so in my opinion it is an appropriate name and not simply due to his position as chairman of the company.

As someone who's lived in the SE London, I wondered this every day! We aren't even getting the bakerloo line we were promised, not until i'm too older anyway :(

I was in London maybe 5 years before I discovered the regular rail stuff and ventured south, I spent another 5 years exploring these places. There really is a 2nd half to the city! Very little of it is historical in the well known sense but I loved visiting places like Crystal Palace and Bermondsey (especially the beer crawl via the breweries under the ever-increasingly wide viaducts leading into London Bridge)

I grew up in Croydon and didn't miss the Tube. East Croydon has a fast train service to central London; you don't get that on any of the Underground lines except the Metropolitan. Who would prefer a long, dark, noisy, slow journey to that? By the way, I'm pretty sure that when lines passed under properties, they would have to pay a fee (wayleaves) to the owners, which is why most deep Tube lines follow streets.

And there's me thinking it was because the monsters and vampires lived south of the river. Things are always more complicated than you think.

Very interesting. I remember reading an article or watching a video about it that basically said that the soil type was just not suitable - like you said toward the end. But you gave many more reasons I didn't know!

Thinking about it, I think the over abundance of mainline commuter services kinda undermined the need for underground lines south of the Thames. Just going back before 1948, there was the Southern Electric suburban network, the electrified Brighton line, and the line to Portsmouth. Sure they weren’t underground, but they were still electric. Clean and fast trains, just as the deep level lines were promoting. I think the only non-LT railway prior to WWII that had an electric London commuter service was the LNWR and later LMS

Was hoping Jago would sign off with "You are the Metropolitan Railway to my Verney Junction".

I live in the South of London and my commute brings me to Central London daily, yet I live within walking distance of 2 train stations but not any tube stations. It's honestly a pain in the ass due to the long wait times for trains compared to the constant train departures of the Victoria Line. If I miss my train it's a 45minute wait for the next at one train station or around 20minutes at the other. Sometimes I travel to the East of London just to get to the Tube in Central London.

"the odd deposit of pete" - well "pete" should be made to clear his deposits up!!! ;-)

Surely topography was crucial. North London is hilly. Not enough to hinder urban development, but enough to hinder the kind of dense surface-rail network needed to serve it.

Those 19th century engravings of London having tube lines installed look like an even worse version of the streets of Edinburgh when they were laying their new tram. It must have been hellish. Glad to see your acknowledgement of a really interesting question. Not at all boring. Ever.

Northern Line should have at least reached Clapham Junction and Maybe even as far as Sutton on that new line via Croydon.

Fascinating video as always! It is interesting to see how a city's growth progression leads to distinct differences like this for one reason or another. I see that a map of London from 1800 has very limited urban area south of the Thames but by 1900 both the North and South in terms of scale anyway, look pretty well even.

I was aware/under the impression that the geology of the ground south of the river had issues regarding the viability and cost of digging into sandy earth, so you could happily say it's a bit of a 'boring' topic. I'll get me coat. Again.

Thank you for this video. I knew about the geological reasoning behind the lack of tubes south of the river but very little of the history. It’s interested me for years and I’ve always meant to research it but never got around to it. You’ve done that for me now and it was very fascinating.

What I learned from this video: It's diffitult to built a tunnel through Jago Hazzard.

2:52 Someone really needs to get a pot of green Hammerite (other brands may be available?) on the corner of that bridge. I've noticed it before. And yes, I thought the problem was mostly related to the geology, with the material for digging through being much more tricky south of the river. But I suspect it's mostly the economics, land in south London being much cheaper, and even viaducts being much cheaper the tunnels.

Your videos are always a delight to watch. Witty and informative. Thank you.

Shared this with my mum and sister, who are both geographers. Fascinating video!!

Other soils types are available namely; blackheath beds ( nightmare soil, round pebbles mixed with a fine silt that is like concrete when compacted, historically a riverbed soil) , flint and clay for 'southeastern' unlike 'southern with their alkaline chalk/flint soils. Joking aside, a very good point concerning tunnelling.

Mr H, another captivating and informative video. And as you can make tubes-n-trams in Sarf London sound entertaining, you are indeed a star. Thanks, Simon T

Geology! We got there eventually. Great vid. Thank you.

The Bakerloo needs to be extended. It's a no-brainer. If a full extension to Hayes via Lewisham happens, ill happily pay a slightly higher tax/fare for benefit of those areas, even though I live nowhere near any of the preposed stations! another great in-depth video though, really enjoyed this one

Superb video. Love your delivery style too, thank you

I am a huge fan of your quick voiceover edits such as at 6:07 when things start to go round in circles

Just watching and listening again Jago, and I have to follow up my earlier comment from a few months back by adding that as well as having the pleasure of your videos, your knowledge is so encyclopaedic. Thanks very much again for another amazing video 📹 👏🏾⭐

North London railways frequently run in tunnels due to the height of the land South London trains run high up on embankments to keep them out of the south London marsh

Good stuff Jago, quiet balanced for a south Londoner and glad that most of the facts of geology , surface lines , trams and railway politics listed . Most manufacturing and labour requirements took place north of the river , with the exceptions of the Woolwich Arsenal and some ribbons of manufacturing to the South West of the City, with surface lines coming into London Bridge , Cannon St , Blackfriars , Victoria and Waterloo connected by the Drain. All the North London termini north of the New Road could only really be connected by in Underground. The real issue is East - West. This has only recently been corrected with the DRL Jubilee line extension and the growth of well managed Overground lines in the North East . the debate North South, will continue , but in terms of cultural and sporting hubs , most are clearly North of the river , unless you don't take into account the South Bank complex and Greenwich. Much as I love the Elephant and Clapham , they are hardly destinations .

Fantastic information as always. 5:09 signs are located in the Buckinghamshire railway centre in Quainton, well worth a visit lots of underground relics to see there.

MANY YEARS AGO I USE TO BE A MINI CAB DRIVER OPERATING OUT OF VICTORIA COACH STATION AND ONLY LONG TRIP WE GOT WERE TO SOUTH LONDON

North of London lines weren't just interested in freight, they wanted long distance passengers (ideally first class and not suburban hoi polloi) which option was really not available south of the river (due to the Channel!)

Being a Norf Londoner (Holloway) I always thought it was normal to walk short distances to a tube station. Travelling north, south east or west never seemed a problem. Now with much more integration between public transport, using it south of the river is no longer such an issue. I still get a little frustrated when in Wandsworth though.

Never in human history has any man made tube and railway history interesting... yet somehow you have! Thanks for another interesting foray.

I remember after a night out I woke up at a bird's house in Lewisham, I woke her up to ask where was the nearest tube station and she just laughed and went back to sleep. after catching two buses to get to the nearest railway station i vowed to never leave north london hahah

Great video! Congratulations!

Similar situation in Berlin- Lots of U-Bahn lines running through former West Berlin, very few in East Berlin where trams dominate instead

Another interesting video about the tubes thanks keep up the good work about the tube lines

Really good video, loved the content & so informative, thx 🙏

I must admit, despite the visuals being rather incoherrent in this video. It was very enjoyable to see a bit of everything. Definitely would appreciate a few more videos like this covering in style and subject (in the sense of a broader question).

I've been in South London for 25 years now and love it. The new tube stations Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station are a god send. Trying to get onto the Northern Line at Stockwell in the morning is a nightmare because it's packed solid from about 7.30 - 9am, but now I can walk to Nine Elms and get a seat each morning. Apparently they're going to extend the extension to Clapham Junction at some point too,

Just an idea. There’s much murmuring afoot about the fact that thecNorthern Line stopped short of continuing its merry way to Clapham Jtn, for many of the passengers to disembark to the tube hence filling it to capacity before it had left its terminus. I had an idea and that was for it to loop back to Ballham joining with the existing Northern Line there and then having like a Heathrow loop on the northern line. This still leaves possible extensions to lines that run thru Clapham Jtn down the track. It was just a hairbrained scheme from some one who lives just outside Melbourne in Australia who doesn’t yet have a true metro. I can see some merrit in it though. I lived in London in its 1980s heydays. What fun they were!

Excellent edition. Thanks

I never really thought about all the other services in South London even though I take them, I suppose depending where you live in south London, A DLR would be easier to take if your in Lewisham, Depford,or a Tram if you're in Croydon, Beckenham etc. some the overground while others a Tube if your in Bermondsey, Elephant & Castle, Oval, Clapham, Brixton etc.

Jago - you're very coherent! (07:18) 😉 Great video which answers one of the questions which is asked so many times. 👍🏾

I tend to find that the national rail north of london does not really want commuters ( maybe with the exception of Potters Bar) , with dull ill lit stations and a lack of ticket staff etc. The southern stations are relatively open and welcoming ( compare Earlsfield with Upper Clapton say)

Very informative. Enjoyed the history

At last! I'd long heard an urban legend that there was once a plan for the Underground to reach Oxford and now the (distorted) truth behind the rumour is apparently revealed.

As a person who lives in South London, I have to say that the regularity of the Tube and railway trains are incomparable... There is a tube every 3-4 minutes, but only 2-8 trains in an hour - depending on how close the station is to Central. On a map the lines looks evenly distributed, but if you consider the time it takes to get around in the North compared to in the South, the difference is still big. I feel like this is something you didn't mention in this video.

The biggest problem in North London is the lack of west to east links. Most of the time, living in London, I would have to go into London and come back out in order to reach another destination that isn’t even too far away. Compared to South London, they don’t have this problem so much due to the trams and the extensive rail links that go somewhat east to west.

Great video jago, very interesting story thanks 👍👌😀

Manchester had a far better idea. Rip up the old heavy rail lines and put down light rail tram lines instead. Instead of passenger traffic in the morning and evening travelling on worn out equipment, interspersed with the odd goods train. The lines have come back to life with regular tram services. What better way to recycle/reuse old routes.

Thank you for this video! As a fellow South Londoner, it’s been a subconscious question on my mind (who the rail transport system is different, particular in the Southeast). Now I have some evidence and a story to explain the peculiarities of rail travel in the south of London!

I find South London more relaxing than the North, but travelling in the North is a lot easier than the south, where you need to 'bus it' or 'Uber'.

Another great video sir.

As a former Londoner, the capital is spoilt for choice. I spent most of my life living in the south west in Kingston/Surbiton/Wimbledon and now I live an hour out of the city I realise just how great the public transport in the city really was, even in the south west. For me, where I live, well I'm just hoping they bring back the peak time fast EMR to St Pancras.

I'm a tourist when I come to London and I feel a bit lost venturing away from the comfort of the tube lines so I have not ventured south much.

great work as usual

Very informative, thank you!

Interestingly, if you make the dividing line the Central Line (as it runs through the centre of the City), you get 108 stations north of it and 110 south, which is pretty even!

Of course if we just moved the Thames up a bit, say to the regents canal and brentford extension we would have more tube stations south of the thames,

Fascinating, thank you

Also worth remembering that when the Met opened most of London WAS North of the river. The city spread along railway lines in many cases.... A bit like the Met. Also, where there's no houses there's nothing to go under hence a surface (or in the case of the L&G) a raised railway!

This is really fascinating.

When I visit my friend in Balham (Gateway to the South) If I was travelling south or out of town the railway is often better than the underground and the services are frequent on the railway. The journey to Huddersfield was Clapham Junction, Milton Keynes, Manchester, Huddersfield

Hey, I'd have no issue using trains, if there were about double the numbers there are now running! :-) The wait can be tedious indeed, rather than the knowledge that there will almost certainly be another tube along in 2-3 minutes.

Funny hearing my hometown of Weybridge pop up in a Jago Hazzard video!

Quainton is now a heritage rail line. Well worth a visit

Thank you Jago

I'm astonished that the Tube went all the way out to and beyond the town I grew up in (Aylesbury)!

01:25 - Nice artwork find, Jago. Thx.

Hey Jago, I have a question mostly related to lines in the north. As many were built by competing companies, there were many instances of places where there could have been interchanges, but the chance was lost. In particular on the North London Line/Overground which inconveniently floats slowly over a whole bunch of other lines without interchanges, but also in places near Bounds Green between the Great Northern and the Piccadilly. The question is... Are there any places where this could easily be fixed, and are there any areas where a bit more effort + money to create a more expensive interchange could be a good idea?

I have also wondered about the lack of tube lines in south london thanks for filling me in. I'm from new cross (see 8:50 for new cross station) and originally there was a tube line with old tube stock that went up to white chapel and Shoreditch. This was extended down to crystal palace and west to clapham junction and replaced with the overground. New cross station is quite good for getting around London because the overground takes me to canada water where I can get the Jubilee line basically anywhere and whitechapel where I can get on the hammersmith and city line as well as the elizabeth line and the district line. The commuter trains (as mentioned in the video) that go through New Cross are very frequent (often more frequent than the overground service) and get to London Bridge and Cannon street in under 10 minutes.

No sooner did I mention my fondness, you got a Met K Class in there at the extremeties of context - fabulous plot twist! I doff my hat.

Finally, one question I could answer. not as detailed and well as you Jago however :-) GREAT JOB!

Although the first deep level tube was south of the river apart from its terminus at King William Street.

Well done Jago, if your humour gets any drier it will dessicate and blow away…just my sort of humour in fact!

Thanks for answering a question that's been bugging me for a while

I visited London in 1978 and rode on the Piccadilly and District Lines. Back then, the District Line still used 1920s rolling stock with spur-cut bull and pinion gears, which sounded a lot like the prewar subway trains in New York.