Why Can't You Fully Charge Your Begode Wheel?

Рет қаралды 4,165

Жыл бұрын

I delve a little deeper into why it's often not possible to get a full charge on a Begode wheel.
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Пікірлер: 94

@alainle8609 Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Marty. Both useful and entertaining. And very thoughtful I might add. Little slip of the tongue at 7:03 when you're saying that it will go down to 0.2 volts but later corrected anyway. I've been watching from France since your very first videos so the thanks are way overdue.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the nice words, and yeah, I noticed that slip-up regarding voltage/amps too :-)

@ullle66 Жыл бұрын

good job Marty, great video! ❤ 3rd solution in other post ;-) Actually its not just the mileage….a battry only going to 133v will not balance nice….

@timwatterson8060 Жыл бұрын

A tip, if you spin the euc stand around slowly you'll get to one of 2+ points where the wheel will stop spinning. Same principle works with round tables and uneven surfaces.

@old_trapper Жыл бұрын

... meaning the wheel isn't calibrated properly. Avoid even the slightest angle to the left or right while calibrating.

@timwatterson8060 Жыл бұрын

@@old_trapper he has it on a stand thats on unlevel ground, the rotating trick allows you to find a level spot, it has nothing to do with the calibration of the euc.

@pandabike3826 Жыл бұрын

Not if the wheel is calibrated with a +/- tilt.

@critzlez8593 11 ай бұрын

@@pandabike3826 He's not talking about calibration. It's literally just because the ground isn't perfectly level, so there will be a direction where it will spin because it's slightly tilted

@ThaBlackCobra Жыл бұрын

Very informative Marty, but I definitely don't think I'm ready to be wiring a splitter into a begode wheel. They got enough issues going on..... 😂

@VllKlNG Жыл бұрын

Good tips.

@patrickmckowen2999 Жыл бұрын

This will save many lives 😍🤣 Yes, more relevant to the long mile squeakers. But more to the point, for the money we pay for these wheels, we should be getting every damn electron that pack can hold! Cheers

@ullle66 Жыл бұрын

3rd solution: Just adjust your charger to about 135Volt…..the reason the “distribution board” is eating some of the voltage away is because of its reverse protection diodes. Thats pretty normal and really GOOD Euc companies( which we unfortunately do not have anymore, not even one!) in some earlier days took care of that and delivered chargers with about 0,6-0,8 Volt more.

@xorbe2 Жыл бұрын

No please don't do this, please don't suggest fire-causing advice, it's very good to have a small buffer, there is very little charge delta at the peak voltage anyway.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

At least on the Master the voltage is fairly sensitive and charging will stop at 135 volts

@Kickersoccer69 Жыл бұрын

@@xorbe2 This is no „fire causing advice“! Not AT ALL. You have BMSs in the very of the pack which will - if needed- stop before any overcharging occures…. Which would not, because as said, the reverse protection diodes eat away the 0,6Volt more. And even if there is NO diode and even IF If the BMS don’t work…a charge of 135V is 0,6 Volt more spread over 32 cells per pack. So the Maximum voltage of a single cell would be 4,2185 Volt. Dangerous it only would get when it’s over 4,25 Volt. We are far, far away from it…..

@xorbe2 Жыл бұрын

@@Kickersoccer69 hopefully BMS saves everyone

@ullle66 Жыл бұрын

@@xorbe2 BMS isnt what is causing the fires we see! What causes 99% of fires we have is reasoned by Battery cells which got overstressed when used in a way, the Euc isnt meant for! Standard batteries are capable of 10Amp. When you try to press more out of them, by mmotherboards which have no amp limit, then the cell gets internal damage, which is NOT detectable from outside or any BMS in the world. One one fine day, the chemistry damaged cell will then start to vent, catch fire and take all other cells with in that hell. That can happen even when not charging or driving, and as said, not even smart BMSs can prevent that. This “overstress” situation we most often saw on 84/100Volt 4parallel configs on GW…..

@Seba-zz2vy Жыл бұрын

caution!!! your euc relies on regenerative breaking exclusive,. If you charge the battery to full and you use the EUC in a downhill you can overcharge the battery!!! At minimun can cause a cut off or more severe a blown fire to your battery... CAUTION

@roghaj Жыл бұрын

🎉

@tombraselton2671 Жыл бұрын

Hey Marty! Love your videos. I don’t feel that this 1.4v difference will honestly make much of a difference. Anyone can point out any errors but I’ll explain. 134.4v (max pack voltage) / 4.2v (max parallel group voltage) = 32 cells in series. How much voltage is then missing from each series battery group? 134.4v (max pack voltage) - 133v (Marty’s measurement) = 1.4v difference. Since there are 32 series batteries, that 1.4v is divided between them. 1.4v (voltage difference) / 32 (series cell group count) = 0.04375 per series cell group. 4.2v (max cell group voltage) - 0.04375v (difference of max pack voltage and measured per series cell group). Each series cell group is then charged to 4.15625v versus the 4.2v desired maximum. If one looks at the discharge chart of a typical lithium battery, that 0.04 is dropped immediately anyway and the bulk of the usable state of the battery is in the higher 3v range to mid 3v range until another steep drop at the end (low 3v). I feel if you charge to 134.4v, accelerate to 20mph and then stop and check, I’m sure it would be 133v or less anyway as the steep drop would take effect. I don’t feel the juice is worth the squeeze in this case. Again, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem worth it.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

It's not significant, but it's a difference. It represents ~3.6% of the battery capacity. Sometimes I ride my wheels such long distances that a missing volt could result in me walking back to the car. Like I said in the video, if you don't ride your wheels to empty than this video is of no value to you.

@chrisrathjan1501 Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles Yeah but I reckon that voltage will disappear well within the first kilometre or so due to the way cells discharge the first little bit. It's also less likely to combust if the cells aren't at their max. Ride it and see how far it takes to wipe off that volt....please if you'd be so kind. I'd more concerned if one pack had a different voltage.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

@@chrisrathjan1501 Well, the voltage may disappear within the first kilometer but that's still a missing kilometer, isn't it. Again, I don't think you can relate unless you have had many rides where you are riding the low battery tilt-back trying to get back to your car. What can I say, it's important to me (and others that I ride with). I've been riding dozens of wheels for many years always fully charged. That has nothing to do with combustion, IMHO. I'm not trying to convince anyone. Just providing information for the people that find it useful. Thanks for your comments.

@ATICrossX Жыл бұрын

I agree with you, also it's a good practice not to 100% fully charge the battery, especially if you not going to ride it soon. Lithium battery being charged to 80-90% will last 2-3 times longer than the one being charged to 100% all the time. But if you are long distance rider, maybe it is worth it to get that extra few percent on each charge, because even if you fully charge your battery, you will still get many 10s of thousand of miles out of the battery. Different folks different strokes :)

@chrisrathjan1501 Жыл бұрын

@@ATICrossX If it's a long ride to that extent I'll take a charger so I suppose I just I just manage it differently. Or I will like many slow down early so I make it home.

@BershatskyValentyn Жыл бұрын

What about BMS any specification of it what app shows about battery cells? probably BMS cut off charger earlier because of unbalanced batteries.

@SwitchUpYt Жыл бұрын

My commander pro charges to 134.4

@staffan78 10 ай бұрын

Carefull charging this way. I did it the the master V2 with Molycel P42 batteris. Ended up with one pack at 72V and the other one in that pair 48V and a biping BMS (alarming)

@ElectricUnicycles 9 ай бұрын

Of course you should be careful 🙂

@user-fw4sl1wh3h 5 ай бұрын

@@ElectricUnicyclesماهو الحل؟

@mazx19 Жыл бұрын

Does the EX30 have this problem?

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

Depending on the version of the distribution board that you have, yes.

@bikemike2777 Жыл бұрын

Nice I was suspecting this. I got my new ex30. The max it will charge to 129v after doing all the checks on packs, main line voltage and confirm my app display is showing correct Ewheels told me to send to wheel back and they will ship a new wheel out instead of back n forth problem solving. 4 volts loss is kind of a big deal imo. If the wheel went up to 133.v I would have been content to deal with a smaller margin. But damn the ex30 is a Cadillac of a wheel. Such smooth power delivery

@pacochawa2746 Жыл бұрын

Brand new should work as designed and fixed like new!

@xorbe2 Жыл бұрын

4V down isn't nearly as bad as you think, that's only 0.125V per cell from peak charge. Aiming for 4.1V per cell (or 0.1V short, or 131.2V total) as a safety margin is not a bad idea. It extends like pack life too, low voltage and peak voltage are both tough. That's why laptops often offer an 80% charge option, greatly extends the battery.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

Clearly with all your comments you don't worry too much about having a full charge 😁 You also probably don't go 100 plus mile rides 🤔

@bikemike2777 Жыл бұрын

@xorbe2 it's still range lost. Ewheels is exchanging it cause it could lead to problems later and they don't want battery issues to occur for their customers. And the price tag of 4k I need more voltage to get more range speed and power. If a 129 volts is good enough for you the have fun and run with it. It's not what I paid for

@bikemike2777 Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles yes exactly that upper 4 volts can go a ways

@marksac5080 Жыл бұрын

And this is how we start a fire.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

That's why I'm doing it 👍

@xorbe2 Жыл бұрын

Yup, he hasn't accounted for imperfect voltage measurements and imperfect balancers. Damaging those lithium anodes and cathodes with internal dentrite growth until they short out. 🤷🏼‍♂

@MegaRazzar Жыл бұрын

Ask for help, what plug do the battery pack in begode master have? XT 90 vs XT 60

@ZuberEUC 11 ай бұрын

MR60

@a.d.h.dn3d461 Жыл бұрын

Are the shocks leaking fluid a lil bit? I noticed dirt build up on the top of the shocks....

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

I don't think so but can't say definitively. The wheel has been ridden in some very dirty conditions

@tylerdorminey1910 Жыл бұрын

So how will this affect the wheels over time? Are the battery packs still balancing as they previously did in older wheels? Thanks for the informative video as always

@ullle66 Жыл бұрын

Actually ONLY with Martys method you will have perfect balancing, as this only starts ate the VERY, VERY end of charging. When your wheel does not get higher than 133v then over the time your batteries will unbalance!

@tylerdorminey1910 Жыл бұрын

@@ullle66 how long of a time frame and is it likely for the wheel to cut out?

@Kickersoccer69 Жыл бұрын

@@tylerdorminey1910 this can’t be answered…. Depends on how BIG the cell differences are. Probably only after a long time and when the cells run very, very far from one another. but it’s just not good to have that…. For example a totally full battery 4,2 V has much better characteristics in voltage drop than a 3,8 battery…and balancing differences make the most problems when you are near empty battery….

@planemo191 4 ай бұрын

@@ullle66 I agree, my concern is that the packs aren't getting properly balanced if the dist board only allows 132~133.5v. However, of possibly more concern is that bypassing the dist board may also by-pass the charge stop, so whereas a cell going over say 4.215v would normally trigger a charge stop (via the white wire from the packs to the dist board), bypassing could remove that safety function. In older wheels the charge stop function was located on each packs BMS so it didn't matter what you fed the input, but it's believed to now be on the dist board. As of yet, no-one seems able to confirm this but if true, theres an argument that an overcharge situation from by-passing the board is far riskier than an imbalance situation from using it. Pick your poison..

@wutruriding1355 Жыл бұрын

What? Begode still sending out EUCs w this problem is nuts; this is a known problem for about a year now.

@VllKlNG Жыл бұрын

Does anyone know what the wide yellow connector is called that he connects to the begode battery harness?

@ZuberEUC 11 ай бұрын

MR60 connector

@Roskellan Жыл бұрын

Interesting, my Master v3, 50e batteries is charging to 134.4v out of the box. The charging board was changed by the dealer on the recommendation of Begode a couple of months ago when the wheel went back on an unrelated problem.

@pacochawa2746 Жыл бұрын

Mine was u der charging out of box. I recalibrated charger now its a bit above 134.4

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

It definitely depends on the version of the board in your wheel

@timwatterson8060 Жыл бұрын

So is it just a diode in the distribution board or it it an actual smart device disconnecting power. If it just a diode, looks like a 0.7-0.9v voltage drop so upping the roger charger by that will allow for a full charge with the standard port. Obviously checking the voltage the first time to ensure you dont overvolt if you get your maths wrong.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

It's more sophisticated than that. There are active FET switches involved that get triggered based on signals from the battery BMS's.

@timwatterson8060 Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles worth a try with 133.9v to see how it handles it..... Cover open etc etc?

@xorbe2 Жыл бұрын

Got any concrete specs on the accuracy of those voltage read-outs? I spent big bucks on 2xFluke, Brymen, and Hioki to be extremely certain about voltages with high precision and accuracy. 😕 I see your LG DM-333 is spec'd as ±1.2% ±4th digit which means 134.4V could be reported as 132.7 - 136.1 volts. I fear you are going to encourage someone to have a house fire chasing a volt (with an even cheaper dmm) at the top, when that that tiny volt and tiny power delta at the very top barely matters. Being 1-1.5V off the top will result in less battery issues. Being 1-1.5V off the top allows the wheel to regen sooner. In fact I would be most comfortable if my 134.4V pack stayed about 1.6V away from the peak (0.05V per cell). I will ping Jason at eWheels about this. I'd also like to point out that charging to 100.0% peak voltage implies that at least one cell group is overcharged, since no balancer is perfect due to physics.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

I have no control over what people do or how they feel about what I present in this video. I feel comfortable with the data I collected. It's a well-known fact that these power distribution boards reduce the available voltage to the batteries. Keep in mind that the BMS has its own voltage regulation and will shut off charging if the voltage is too high, within reason

@AJames-jr8kw Жыл бұрын

Wondered about this myself. Recently I wanted to check how much charge was left in a 3.7V (nominal) Li-ion cell and my usually reliable multimetre said an impossible 5V !! I suspect the battery of the multimetre is stuffed. Anyway both chargers and multimetres are made usually in China. Why should one assume the chargers are out and the multimetres are reading the correct voltage. It could be the other way around. You'd assume the company making the chargers would have proper instruments to calibrate the chargers but as this is China and not US/Europe/Japan maybe not. Does anyone have a calibrated multimetre to check how accurate a bunch of their friends chargers and multimetres are?

@mi6ful Жыл бұрын

Hi, whats the name of that adapter wire you connected and where can I purchase this?

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

As explained in the video, the cable was made by Roger and you can't buy them.

@mi6ful Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles actually eWheels sells them. They have 3,4,5 pin charging adapters.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

@@mi6ful I meant that you can't buy them "from Roger". Good to know that EWheels sells them. Wonder why since they don't sell this charger (unless they do 🤔)

@freeforester1717 Жыл бұрын

Q: Might it actually be a good thing that the battery has some (rather small) parasitic discharge? The fact that over time it could potentially discharge the battery packs completely would of course be very bad, but would the fact that the setup is designed to lose a little and a little more over time actually harm the condition in a way greater than we’re they held at fully 100% fully charged? As you can tell, I’m not an expert in this particular aspect, but keen to understand the points of view pertaining to this aspect, we are advised to store the wheels at 50-80% of charge if not intending to ride for a time, etc. though it’s more or less natural for people to want to keep their battery packs fully charged up.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

You say we are advised to keep the batteries charged at 80%. By whom exactly. I've been riding for going on 7 years now and this is a continual argument amongst us all. I am firmly in the camp of charging all wheels to 100% every time and that's what I've been doing for the last 7 years

@freeforester1717 Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles No argument with both your and my modes, I too keep all my wheels fully charged, but I’ve read many times from eg various battery powered e-bike manufacturers papers advising that in instances where a battery is NOT going to be in use for some period of time, then it is advised to charge up and bleed off a portion of the power, or “store at 50-80% of full charge”, which is reckoned by them to be better for the battery than storing at full charge. Just looking for the rationale, not any dispute per se, more seeking the technical reason/s as to why this may be so.

@Kay0Bot Жыл бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles at 100% charge you grow dendrites, just a fact of current lithium battery design. Dendrites will eventually penetrate substrate separating cathode and anode.

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

@@Kay0Bot If I intended on keeping my wheels for years and years maybe I would baby the batteries more. From my experience (and many others) the EUC batteries last a long time without special care. But everyone should do what works best for themselves.

@Jonvrooms Жыл бұрын

My ex30 only goes to 132.7 but my master x does a full 134.4 but my master only does 132.5 2 packs are at 67v other 2 are at 66volts with new charge board these damn wheels 😅

@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын

Yes, it depends what version of the power distribution board is in your wheel. My Master and Master Pro will charge to 134.4 volts. But both of those wheels are version 1's.

@markricharddavies 10 ай бұрын

Anyone have a link for this “ proper” power distribution board? Mine charges to 132 and change.. and looses voltage when not used.

@ElectricUnicycles 10 ай бұрын

Unfortunately it's not something you can buy. The one I have was modified by Roger which entails moving one wire

@markricharddavies 10 ай бұрын

@@ElectricUnicycles thanks Marty, I contacted Rodger. I have to decide to live with it or not. I’m also noticing that you can’t fast charge above 75% with the Ex30. This wheel definitely has its own charging properties..

@ElectricUnicycles 10 ай бұрын

@@markricharddavies You can fast charge above 75% but you have to lower the amperage at that point. Say you charge at 12-amps, at some point (~75%) the charger will turn off because of the BMS. Unplug the charger, lower the amps to something like 8 (experiment) and then plug the charger in. It'll start charging again.