Why Corporate Owned Linux Distributions like Red Hat are a Bad Idea
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Күн бұрынWhen it comes to Linux Distros, each are either managed by their community or by a company. With recent news, it becomes clearer than ever that those managed by a company should be avoided. With a recent history of being untrustworthy, Red Hat is on the list to steer clear of - but they're not the only example. With histories of misleading claims (with some being downright lies) it's time to leave corporate-owned Linux distributions behind. Here's why.
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Time Codes
00:00 - Introduction and what I'll cover in this video
01:45 - To be fair, Red Hat has had a HUGE impact on Linux
03:10 - A history of Red Hat and CentOS up until now
07:46 - Red Hat is putting source code behind a pay wall?!
09:05 - Now it's harder for downstream recompiles to exist
10:40 - Can Red Hat do this?
12:00 - Red Hat has a history of breaking trust
13:54 - Canonical ALSO exhibits lesser (but similar) behaviors
19:08 - Why Learn Linux TV has switched AWAY from Ubuntu
-- Relevant articles and Links --
• Red Hat and CentOS "Join Forces" ➜ learnlinux.link/redhatandcentos
• CentOS 8 Released ➜ learnlinux.link/centos8release
• CentOS Stream Announced ➜ learnlinux.link/streamreleased
• CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream ➜ learnlinux.link/future-is-stream
• FAQ - CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream ➜ learnlinux.link/centos-faq
• Red Hat strikes a crushing blow against RHEL downstreams ➜ learnlinux.link/red-hat-move
• Phoronix Article on Red Hat's response to this ➜ learnlinux.link/rh-response
• What decides success or failure ➜ learnlinux.link/market-success
• Gnome as Gnome intended ➜ learnlinux.link/stock-gnome
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#linux #redhat #opensource
@mikeboatright5349 10 ай бұрын
I think this is why Linux Mint always builds a Debian release with each new release based on Ubuntu. Smart move on Mints part.
@joshallen128 10 ай бұрын
Lmde which is cool but lm includes a way to install device drivers rather easy
@anonymous_opinions1924 10 ай бұрын
Yep. Love that project.
@jonspoonamore3721 10 ай бұрын
My friend.... You are 100% correct. It was several years ago when Canonical started to go against Community Standards and tried to "Nickel and Dime" other distros for using Ubuntu as their base that gave birth to LMDE. Team Mint knew what was coming and got prepared. I'm still hoping that 2023 will be the last year LM is based on Ubuntu and go 100% Debian.
@fahimhoq3166 10 ай бұрын
Does Zorin OS or other Ubuntu based distro have a Debian based release just in case?
@anonymous_opinions1924 10 ай бұрын
@@fahimhoq3166 No
@Fenrasulfr 10 ай бұрын
The worst about this situation is that we need funding and the vast majority of it comes from corporations.
@notoriouslycuriouswombat 10 ай бұрын
@@FuriouS1976 most of these companies aren't using that much software from random garage hackerdude
@theglowcloud2215 10 ай бұрын
@@notoriouslycuriouswombat Who said they were?
@ChronosChaotic 10 ай бұрын
@@theglowcloud2215 but they are though
@ultravioletiris6241 10 ай бұрын
People spend $1000 on some sweatshop hardware like an iPhone; but they are unwilling to donate $5 to a great OS like Debian
@Fenrasulfr 10 ай бұрын
@@ultravioletiris6241 That is because it is free so why should they pay for it, that is a lot of the Linux mentality.
@julian.morgan 10 ай бұрын
My hunch is that System 76 are likely to parallel their Rust development with a more direct relationship to Debian, bypassing Ubuntu, over the next few years and for much the same reasons: They're trying to run a business and they won't appreciate being dicked about by Canonical. Mint already did this of course with LMDE because of unease with the status of Ubuntu.
@Kevitivity 10 ай бұрын
Just wanted to add my two cents. I work in the government aerospace industry and the powers that be currently prefer Linux distributions that have corporate backing. If something seriously goes wrong, this industry wants to be able to hold someone accountable and/or have someone to help with support. I'm not defending RH. Just adding some context. TY for your videos!
@st4rbuxx 10 ай бұрын
You're not wrong, and arguably this is what it's all really about. I suspect it's all about F500 and government customers. If an organization pays for 500 subscriptions for their Production systems (to have them backed by Standard/Premium Support) and runs another 1500 dev/test systems on Rocky Linux (which would have been on CentOS pre-Stream), Red Hat wants to bring those dev/test systems into the fold. They are providing ways to do this without increasing subscription costs (Developer Subscription for Teams, primarily) which actually should be less-risk for organizations because there would be no difference (no lag) between the current supported RHEL version and Rocky/Alta/whatever. Red Hat would also benefit from this situation by understanding just how many non-PROD systems an org has deployed; something that they wouldn't have accurate insight into right now if they are on Rocky/etc. Conceivably, these systems would report back into RH Insights, which is a great resource for Operations teams (big org benefit) as well as providing insights to RH account managers (I'm not crystal clear on how much of that info is automatically shared, or if it's negotiated in the service contract -- I don't mean to speak out of turn here). Also while many may recoil at this type of information harvesting/sharing being a big intrusion by Red Hat, understand that the management of IT organizations get a lot of benefit from this as well. Whether it is right for a particular org or not is entirely up to them; I'm not here to judge.
@madcockney 10 ай бұрын
I know that here in the UK over a decade ago many government bodies, schools, etc would only use Windows and proprietary software for the same reason. However, many were unwilling to make a contribution to Wikepedia, and similar even though they were using it all the time.
@adolforosado 9 ай бұрын
We don't trust the government either kiddo. Or the aerospace industry either. They are the problem and the cause of all the problems. Greed, nepotism, information control, lies, tyranny. Grow up.
@brettlaw4346 9 ай бұрын
That makes distribution selection easy if you're using Linux for your defense corporation. The question is, "Which Linux distribution do you choose if you need enterprise capability and you don't want to be ripped off by insiders?"
@adolforosado 9 ай бұрын
@@brettlaw4346 Linux is quite capable of going closed source at any time and any entity is free to go open or closed. The choice is up to We the people as well, to decide if we want transparency, or lies, deception, censorship and endless wars. :D
@georgeindestructible 10 ай бұрын
If in 2023 people don't understand that we can get more things done by working together instead against each other then we are just screwed, the future only exists with open source software.
@jhoughjr1 10 ай бұрын
Idk open source software is mostly hippies crying about drama and buggy software. Thats why people pay money for quality.
@georgeindestructible 9 ай бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 As we've never seen payed software failing....
@aer0449 8 ай бұрын
That's what ...
@SnowTheParrot 7 ай бұрын
@@jhoughjr1 you must be a Windows dev. Or even worse, a Windows user who's not skilled enough to use Linux. Because this is the most ignorant comment ive ever heard. The internet and todays technology as you know it were built on Linux. They were built on trust. We dont doubt our systems integrity, because we can read our systems code, and even change it. And considering that Linux is free, I would say its even better quality than Windows or MAC. Maybe 20 years ago no. But today, we have distros that are just as sleek and modern as Windows and Mac (PoP OS, Elementary, Garuda come beautiful straight outta the box), while also offering customization and control to a point the Windows and Mac would never dare. So what are you paying for? Beauty? Linux has it. User-Friendly? Linux now has it. Stability? lol. Fedora and Debian are just as secure as Windows with less bugs and viruses. You're definitely not paying for privacy. lol. So....what are you paying for? The ability to install a program with one click of a button? You can with Linux now too. (Most common packages at least ). I literally cant think of anything. Oh yeah, i know what youre paying for...that back door the U.S. government has to pay people to maintain and monitor. Have fun with that. lol
@NetBandit70 10 ай бұрын
I'm glad Redhat and Canonical have done what they have done. Maybe we can finally get away from the ivory tower of corporate distros, and community distros will reap the benefits.
@BruceCarbonLakeriver 10 ай бұрын
I'm on Arch based Distros after being on Gentoo. Sure I've started with Ubuntu .. erm it was 2010 ^^. But I switched pretty fast. I prefer community driven Distros and those moves and behavior of corporations just proving my point, and yours. I agree!
@DallasGraves 10 ай бұрын
The entire community is watching RedHat right now. If they somehow get to have their cake and eat it too then we’ll see an all out blitz of corporate acquisitions of every last distribution with a corporate structure.
@stevengrimes371 10 ай бұрын
Debian is already been seeing an increase of users since the amazing release of D12.
@rcdenis1 10 ай бұрын
If you think this is bad, wait till the day comes when the hardware companies (Intel, Samsung, AMD, Apple, WD, Seagate etc) start to charge subscription for use of their hardware... Yes, their hardware not yours. And by the way, just because corporations want to make a profit, it doesn't make them evil. And just because the Linux community produces free software it doesn't make them saintly. Everything is a trade-off.
@verygoodbrother 10 ай бұрын
@@rcdenis1 A corporations making a profit from the work for others that produced it for free use is evil.
@TheRajeshphadke 10 ай бұрын
You simply cannot trust companies which are public companies depending on market.
@friedrichhayek4862 10 ай бұрын
Public companies are always demonic
@tomasagustinbenik38 10 ай бұрын
We cannot trust the market.
@ChimeraX0401 10 ай бұрын
Then you realized that almost half of distros today are company owned and those pushing innovation in linux are usually company owned distros....
@flavioluis8218 10 ай бұрын
@@ChimeraX0401it's almost as if money brings resources for more development, right
@classicrockonly 10 ай бұрын
@@flavioluis8218 I love company involvement in software. It really has brought a lot of good code to the table. In my experience, I don't want to use software primarily backed and provided by a company for my own stuff. Contributed to? Most definitely. Owned? Nah. Or if it is a company/corporate owned product, have an extra tool on the shelf as a backup
@epecwokhay 10 ай бұрын
IBM in the last 20 some years has done quite a bit of questionable cost-cutting measures for short-term profits/growth arguably at the expense for long-term profits/growth; I remember starting around 2003 when they sold their hard drive division to Hitachi and then their PC business (most notable the ThinkPad brand which is the gold standard for enterprise laptops even today) to Lenovo in 2005. Xbox 360 and PS3 were using IBM CPU tech in the mid 2000s. Even Apple was using their CPU tech until 2005. Moreover, IBM eventually sold their server business to Lenovo in 2014. Rather than spend more money for R&D on core competencies or innovate, they mainly did stock buybacks especially when they were run by Samuel J. Palmisano. In short, I believe all this crappy behavior in Redhat results from the higher-ups in IBM with their bean counter mentality to reach certain so-called "KPIs." However like many people, I think this will destroy a lot of goodwill, brand awareness, and overall trust which have helped cement RHEL as the "standard" in its industry. If you look at IBM's stock price since the turn of the century, it's been more or less the same, but adjusted for inflation, it's actually worth less now than back then.
@willi1978 10 ай бұрын
ibm lives from quarter to quarter because they are public traded
@LackofFaithify 10 ай бұрын
IBM has been making faaaarrrrrr more questionable choices in their pursuit of profit over their history than anything to do with Hitachi, Xbox, etc... Ok, less questionable and more straight up evil villain. I mean, Nazis. Apartheid. Little things.
@bryanfogleman4549 10 ай бұрын
@@willi1978 IBM lives quarter to quarter because they have no vision or competent management.
@jhoughjr1 10 ай бұрын
yeah IBM has been ran into the ground since Pomocino.
@CoupDeFri 10 ай бұрын
The problem when "not engineer" became higher up, same story with phillips
@CraftGodsOfficial 10 ай бұрын
Tinycorelinux has given me what i need to learn how to strip something down & build it back up...i feel like if i get a 27 year old laptop to run a basic system customized by myself then im ready to move even deeper into this linux journey that started over 20years ago as a youth mentor..Thankyou to all the Linux Teachers who keep encouraging others to see the benefits stick with it..🤜🏽🤛🏽💗
@JayGodseOnPlus 10 ай бұрын
That was a comprehensive and useful look at why corporate distributions have broken the trust. Having said that, all code in a distribution is licensed under the Gnu Public License v2 or v3. This means that at a minimum, a company has to make the source code available, at a zero or non-zero cost, and that all licencees must make the source code available to everybody to whom they distribute their releases. If RedHat/IBM violates that, they will be sued, and they will lose. There have been many cases filed by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against wealthy violators of the GPL. The GPL applies to source code, which includes the code to build and package the software into a distribution. So in that sense it is open, and that's why those two derivatives of CentOS 8 can exist. However, when somebody says "Red Hat Enterprise Linux", the Linux part is licensed under GPL but the "Red Hat Enterprise" part is not. The folks at Red Hat have the right to curate the software in their distribution, and curation always involves making decisions with which people don't agree. And that is because "RHEL" or "Ubuntu" are products which are derived from the open-source Linux. One of the reasons Linux distribution owners curate Linux distro products is so that they can efficiently provide long-term support and security patches. If they had to test the incredibly large numbers of permutations and combinations of software to ensure reliable support, they would never be able to do it profitably. i.e. Efficient (and even free) long term support is what we get in exchange for disagreeable decisions made by the curators of Linux distribution. That problem remains whether the Linux distributor is a big corporation or a community of like-minded Linux advocates.
@stancooper5436 10 ай бұрын
I've just moved from Ubuntu to Debian thanks to your content. Never looking back!
@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 10 ай бұрын
Linux Mint Debian Edition > Debian + Cinnamon DE.
@zoliky 10 ай бұрын
Debian is absolutely amazing. It would be really cool if Jay could create more videos focusing on Debian.
@locatemarbles 10 ай бұрын
Well said. I came to the same conclusions 20 years ago, when it was time for me to settle down on a distribution for life. I figured if I was going to commit to Linux I would stay away from corporate distros. for the same reasons you mentioned here.
@dfs-comedy 10 ай бұрын
Debian has its share of developer drama, but all in all, it's a solid distribution with a trustworthy organization behind it. I'm very happy with it, and have been for decades.
@ultimatedjX 10 ай бұрын
Maybe not immediately, but I have a feeling that a lot of us will land on Debian 12 for both our servers and desktops. Just a thought after digesting the news mentioned in the movie for a couple days... And I was (until the last weekend) a full blown RPM/Red Hat distros user...
@LearnLinuxTV 10 ай бұрын
And to think, I've predicted that Debian 12 will become the most downloaded release in the history of that distribution. I'm not sure if I made that prediction publicly or not (I guess I just did). It'll be interesting to see the download numbers after all of this, so I definitely agree!
@warthunder1969 10 ай бұрын
@@LearnLinuxTV It definitely could be a wild year for Debian!
@KnightRiderOfVoid 10 ай бұрын
Welcome to our precious and much valued home (debian), just please don't try to make it another RHEL, leave the RHEL ideas in the RHEL side and embrace Debian for what it is. Our beloved Debian is what it is today thanks to that particular way of running the distro approach. For a reference of what I mean, look at the political and social mess that the Californians are making in Texas, the flee California because it's doomed, but don't fully embrace the Texas way and are corrupting a perfectly working society over there too 💀
@johndododoe1411 10 ай бұрын
@@KnightRiderOfVoidWhy would anyone flee to Texas as long as Paxton and his friends are in charge?
@KnightRiderOfVoid 10 ай бұрын
@@johndododoe1411 well there are always reasons but don't ask me, I'm not he one doing it hahahah... May be it's just a freeing experience to leave California even if you're a mostly brainwashed woke I guess
@chuckcrizer 10 ай бұрын
Red Hat was my first Linux distro back in '96. Back then, the OS was on CDs as part of a Linux book.
@timburns2374 10 ай бұрын
Ah the good old days when we went to the computer store and bought software in a flashy box. I miss those days but I don't miss crt monitors 😄
@chuckcrizer 10 ай бұрын
@@timburns2374 Or the days of going to Border's and leaving with a handtruck stack of $50-$80 computer books - that will all be obsolete in a few years.
@johnarnold893 10 ай бұрын
chuckcrizer.......My first Linux was Redhat 5.1 on a System on a Disk I bought back in '99. Still have that old IDE disk sitting in a drawer. lol.
@kbhasi 10 ай бұрын
That would be the original Red Hat Linux which would evolve in the early 2000s to become Fedora Core and eventually Fedora. Wow. RHEL was a separate product.
@cyberdyne981 10 ай бұрын
Well said Jay! Well said! TRUST is key. I appreciate your video and perspective. I have almost everything here running Debian - and with Bookworm, am even looking to phase out the remainder of servers. On my desktops, I'm using LMDE (Mint + Debian) and have found it lighter than the main Mint releases based on Ubuntu. One thing I just discovered is that Debian 12 (Bookworm) has LXD available natively in the repository. That means NO SNAP requirement. I'm pondering moving some of my Proxmox LXC instances to pure Debian/LXD. I'm going to re-watch your LXD video and do some tinkering this weekend.
@vitiok78 10 ай бұрын
What is the main goal of any system administrator? Stability. What does any system administrator hate? Surprises. Any surprises, both good and bad. Because they are unexpected and non-predictable. Stability is the base of any system. And RedHat has lost its stability. We cannot trust them anymore. They are too surprising for my taste. If you need support use Debian and buy the support from some company providing that kind of service. You can switch that company anytime if they fail you.
@donaldmickunas8552 10 ай бұрын
I think that many of Red Hats intentions have been overruled by IBM. This is why the apparently contradictory statements. I would look for a number of leadership changes in Red Hat in the coming year.
@vitiok78 10 ай бұрын
@@donaldmickunas8552 Of course. And I even think that IBM wants to kill RedHat and make them their internal division without all their freedoms. They make it slowly to prevent employees from rage quitting and to prevent stock fall.
@llpolluxll 10 ай бұрын
I've been using Fedora as a daily driver for a while now. It was one thing when when Red Hat decided to pull their stunt with CentOS but this new revelation has me considering switching my daily driver and server OS. I have also been studying for RHCSA certification but now I feel like maybe I should start looking at a vendor neutral cert.
@investrada 10 ай бұрын
I like fedora. Should we move to Debian 12 desktop? It's stable but outdated compared to fedora. Any other distros (no rolling updates, please) that's up to date like fedora with gnome? For 2010s hardware? Thanks!
@ISCARI0T 10 ай бұрын
@@investradaDebian is really good now
@st4rbuxx 10 ай бұрын
@@investrada If you like Debian 12 (stable) and absolutely need one or two packages from testing (or sid), apt-pinning is a thing and you can get the best of both worlds. Note that with Sid-parts this does have the potential to break your stable system, so you would want to have some good regression testing, but it's possible.
@rdh2059 9 ай бұрын
I have been using Debian on my game servers since Debian 8. Everytime there is an update/upgrade it typically breaks the server, well the COPY of the server I was testing the update/upgrade on. Debian has NO LTS. It is what it is, a rock solid distro with fantastic community support, but not necessarily concerned with version backward compatibility. (case in point, the update that replaced MySQL with MariaDB, which broke databases until all of the MySQL libraries were uninstalled and removed and replaced with MariaDB ones, and a lot of recompiling done.) This puts server admins in a difficult position. Do you stick with the old version and not install all the security patches or spend all the time trying to figure out all the places where the upgrade broke things?
@fplove 10 ай бұрын
Jay, thanks for this video. You covered one of the main reasons why I joined Debian 22 years ago and never left, even during crisis times that happened during our long journey. The community of peers is THE reason to stay in a distro project (as well as any other FOSS project). Having a company that owns and decides for a whole community is a certain recipe for problems one day or another. The other reason is a sort of egoistic one: when something does not work I can fix it by myself or at least discuss with teams and maintainers, as well as release managers about possible solutions for updating next point release. This is the way.
@jimgaluska1361 10 ай бұрын
There is a legal loophole that will allow Alma Linux and Rocky Linux to continue to provide RHEL clones, at least for a while. First of all, I am not a lawyer, however I was a program manager at a very major company. Lets just say that everyone who is reading this knows this company well. The product my division made mixed highly proprietary code in a Linux system. We had to be extremely careful to adhere to all proprietary licenses as well as all the open source licenses. I have spent many hours directly working with lawyers to make sure that I understood the intricacies of all the open source licenses so I can work with the software developers to make sure everything was done correctly. This was part of my job for over 10 years. There are two important facts about Copy Left licenses. 1) Copy Left licenses require that if you distribute a binary derived from Copy Left license source code to someone outside your organization, then you must make the source code available to them. If the person receiving the derived work asks for the source, the distributing organization has to give it to them. This is why Red Hat can place the source code behind a paywall and/or only give it out to people who are subscribers. This is absolutely legal. The last thing I want to say on the topic is that while I don’t have to give the Copy Left licensed source to someone who I did not make a binary distribution (i.e. make it publicly post it on the web), I can make it available to the general public if I choose to do so. 2) Copy Left licenses requires you to license all derived work with the same license as the original source code. The Copy Left licenses expressly forbids organizations from placing additional restrictions on derived works. Of course, this goes out the the window if Red Had owns the copyright to the source code. In this case Red Had is free to make future distributions of the same code under a non Copy Left license. However, then can’t retroactively change the license to code already distributed under a Copy Left license. So, If I have a copy of CentOS that contains a Copy Left licensed version of something, Red Hat can reach into my computer and claim that code is now proprietary. Putting all of this together leads to a legal fact that Red Hat hopes doesn’t become known to the general public. If I pay for a subscription to RHEL, I can demand to get all of the Copy Left licensed source code. While Red Hat doesn’t have to give me any non Copy Left licensed source, their customers will demand it, so there is a near 100% chance that they will distribute non Copy Left , Open Source licensed code ( MIT and BSD are considered Open Source, but not Copy Left). Once a customer has the Copy Left licensed source code, he can do anything he wants to it, including posting it online or directly give it to Alma and Rocky Linux. This is equally absolutely legal and there is nothing that Red Hat can do about it. Red Had can close this loop hole by changing the license to any code that they own the copyright to a proprietary license. That will prevent customers from the re-distribution the source. We just need to hope that Red Had customers refuse to purchased licenses to a Linux distribution that contains significant amounts of proprietary licensed code.
@kbhasi 10 ай бұрын
Yes! I dreamt of something similar! (though what I dreamt of was worse than what you imagined)
@johndododoe1411 10 ай бұрын
@@kbhasiThey impose restrictions on their customers to block that .
@cameronbosch1213 6 ай бұрын
@@johndododoe1411Nope. They cannot. If they don't own the code in question (like the Linux kernel or the GNU coreutils), they they have no right to not follow the license. They can make future versions of software they own the rights to not GPL anymore, but what's already been released cannot be made proprietary and what they don't own the rights to cannot be made proprietary without express consent of the developers, and good luck getting 5% of those developers to allow for that use when the GPL was created _for this very reason._
@cameronbosch1213 6 ай бұрын
And also, if Red Hat stops doing with business with enough customers, they'll run out of willing customers and there goes all of their profits! 😂
@warthunder1969 10 ай бұрын
This is why I come back to Linux Mint and LMDE. No stupid corporate nonsense just good software that releases when its ready, not on a time schedule.
@Alexander-ix2jp 10 ай бұрын
But that can also mean reduced security as seen in 2016 / 2017 when Linux Mint isos were distributed with malware.
@warthunder1969 10 ай бұрын
@@Alexander-ix2jp That could happen to any distro, even Debian or Arch. People pick on Mint for when that happened and yes it was bad it happened but they did correct the issue.
@Alexander-ix2jp 10 ай бұрын
@@warthunder1969 I agree mate, nothing is 100% secure nowadays. And you're right on the second part too, they fixed the issue. My problem is that back then some folks from the Ubuntu community warned them about Mint not being secure enough and it wasn't taken seriously until the breach happened. I'm all for community distros, but I do want security to be taken seriously and treated as a top tier priority (ideally without sacrificing ease of use too much). Not sure how Mint is doing today though, left when that happened back then and haven't tried since, so my experience might be outdated by this point. Ymmv as always 👍🏻
@warthunder1969 10 ай бұрын
@@Alexander-ix2jp True. I can't comment either on the security part. I guess with community distros we take it for granted
@sourcerer_ 10 ай бұрын
This is very wise. Do not trust corporation. You can't predict how they roll you.
@ilyasabi8920 10 ай бұрын
GNU/Linux is a community project at it's core. Corporations contribute but also gain vast amount of capital from OUR project. Not the other way around. Community is always the core of this ecosystem. So the main effort an attention SHOULD always be the community oriented ones because that's the tradition and heritage of us. Other ones come and go but they never will/should be the main priority. We are open to them but also doesn't mean we're gonna give them the keys to our houses so the speak. They will help us by contribution, AS LONG AS IT IS PROTABLE. There's no loyalty to beside capital, in corporate world.
@Xenotypal 10 ай бұрын
Wouldn't be surprised if Linux isn't all but totally co-opted by companies in the future. With Google, IBM, Microsoft and many others having fingers in the pie, eventually the average, regular Joe gets shut out. Perhaps there's something I'm missing or not understanding, but I wouldn't be surprised with that outcome.
@ilyasabi8920 10 ай бұрын
@@Xenotypal Then we fork it we are people who supported before company freaks realized they can make money from it. Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds are the key people as the masterminds behind this movement. All other left is replaceable at the end. I fully believe in being upfront and real instead of compassionate or inclusive. I am not scared if the corporate crowd that came with shiny new features left. Privacy & Security, self reliance all the way.
@XrayTheMyth23 10 ай бұрын
To be completely fair 99% of the code for linux and its distributions are contributed by companies. But what makes linux unique is that it is multiple employees of these companies working together without an end goal of profit. Also I think most people good enough to contribute are obviously going to take positions that will pay them for their time.
@ilovestitch 10 ай бұрын
Corporations like IBM/Red Hat picking around the edges of the Linux space are representative of capitalism testing the defenses of one of the few surviving, successful emblems of communist ideals in the world.
@ilyasabi8920 10 ай бұрын
@@XrayTheMyth23 Linux kernel started as fun side project for an engineer with love of computers and distaste for current corporate owned, for lack of a better word backward ass policies without proper support because of negligence. You must probably know better than me about the GNU part and Stallman. I don't see any other parts as essential so they should uphold their contract with the foss foundation and not try to skimp, abuse their power or we will create and migrate to new safe heaven. I am very well aware of our situation and the difference of power with our aggressors. However I am not gonna slither, cower or cuck out against any big corporation. This is not the only hill to die in my life but this is critical since it supports other freedom foundations as it is in the infrastructure.
@BustaCheeze 10 ай бұрын
This is the same thing as Netflix and the password sharing. They're just pissing off users who are ultimately a strain on the system, but still add benefit. But these orgs who aren't paying for enterprise support, very few of them will suddenly start paying and I suspect most will just switch to something different rather than just start paying. Much like the Twitter and Reddit APIs, I think we're falling out of a golden age of computer and internet progress as big corps start to tighten their purse strings.
@johnarnold893 10 ай бұрын
Bustacheeze.........Yup, Linux users mostly don't like purse strings. It's not like RedHat offers anything that other don't for free.
@cobra-chicken 10 ай бұрын
I work for a very large tech company and we're currently in talks with Red Hat to onboard our current centos 7 infra to RHEL. I heard Red Hat is willing to bend over backwards to give us a good deal because we will end up being one of their biggest customers if we decide to go for that. Us in the FOSS community don't like what Red Hat is doing and hope they would fail but unfortunately corporations, especially ones with the money, will always choose the path of least resistance because they can't afford causing any disruptions to their business operations. They also like the fact by signing a support contract with Red Hat now they have something legally binding, and not just a pinky promise like that of Centos which they can walk back on any time with no legal repercussions. At least in the short term, I'm not seeing Red Hat going anywhere.
@BustaCheeze 10 ай бұрын
@@cobra-chicken I'm not surprised they're willing to do whatever to get customers signed on. Get the customers in and squeeze more money out of them later. Not in an evil sort of way, but it's one of the foundational principles of the subscription model. And it'll work out as long as Red Hat can prove their value.
@jkeelsnc 10 ай бұрын
Or as I did and didn’t care. I had a shared password from paramount+ but that went away and it was ok. I just stopped using it. Same with Netflix.
@phoenixrising4995 10 ай бұрын
Just wait until RHEL turns into Creative Cloud. 🤮🤮
@lylepetersen814 10 ай бұрын
I still like and use openSUSE, despite its corporate lineage. I can't find a more stable rolling release. It's also the best XFCE implementation I've seen.
@theaveragecactus 11 күн бұрын
is it not different though? that suse is just a sponsor for opensuse and not the actual code provider, in fact isn't it that suse enterprise is based on opensuse?
@gerry1980gm 10 ай бұрын
I absoloutely agree. Switched back to Debian on all servers since the snap package pressure. My favorite distribution on Desktop machines is Mint for over a decade. Every year I try different distros because of my nosiness... I see some fancy stuff (mostly on this great channel) and I check it out... no-brainer with Proxmox, nowadays (also learned here). But in the end I always find myself using Mint again. Its fancy (imho), its stable, and the most important thing, I like the spirit of the Mint people (they awake my Ubuntu doubts, some years ago). Thank you for this great channel and for this important video !
@SyphistPrime 10 ай бұрын
This is a good summary of the situation. I would be following your footsteps with moving things to debian, but i find that debian just isn't close enough to the new programs and updates I want. I would like something community run kinda in-between Ubuntu's stability approach and Arch's bleeding edge approach. I'm getting a bit annoyed by the maintenance burden of Arch too, so that's not helping my situation. I still have time to consider things though because I'm not redoing my servers or Linux systems any time soon though.
@tomasagustinbenik38 10 ай бұрын
What about Debian Sid?
@SyphistPrime 10 ай бұрын
@@tomasagustinbenik38 how up to date is Sid usually? I think I found the kernel version at 6.3.7-1 which should be rather new. If they do keep things up to date like this I would give it a shot. I might have to look more into it.
@tomasagustinbenik38 10 ай бұрын
@@SyphistPrime 6.3.7 is new, yes. Give it a shot. Just be careful with the dependencies of the software you use. If you need to use any special software, with specific dependencies that Debian hasn't updated yet, you may build them from source.
@SyphistPrime 10 ай бұрын
@@tomasagustinbenik38 I'm used to the AUR so building from the source wouldn't be a problem. I might also be open to trying Flatpaks if I can get theming to work with them. Thanks for the suggestion. It's definitely on my radar when it wasn't before.
@IslamicAudiobooksCentral 10 ай бұрын
PureOS has flatpak support and merges packages from Debian Unstable...
@jesse7631 10 ай бұрын
It's almost like someone at IBM is constantly thinking 'what decision could we make that would be a disaster for us and our users?' and then they make that decision.
@user-xl7fc7wd2r 10 ай бұрын
I read in news, they layoff lots of people and replace them with AI.
@VioFax 10 ай бұрын
They built people sorting machines for the NAZI's IBM's German subsidiary, known as "Deutsche Hollerith Maschinen GmbH" (Dehomag), played a role in providing punch-card tabulation machines to the German government and various industries, including the military.
@Bobo-ox7fj 10 ай бұрын
@@user-xl7fc7wd2r Then those people weren't worth their paycheques to begin with 😂
@ryanleemartin7758 10 ай бұрын
If the point of RedHat's decision is to stop downstream distros then how could Alma and Rocky figure this out? I have a hunch that the real target is Oracle and they are willing to sacrifice Alma and Rocky on the way.
@alienorificeinvestigation 10 ай бұрын
Goofy though because solid forks exist, anyone using red hat can beat feet without getting caught up too badly unless they have an addiction to some proprietary stuff.
@ryanleemartin7758 10 ай бұрын
@@alienorificeinvestigation True. I actually lean a bit more to RedHats side of the argument.
@alienorificeinvestigation 10 ай бұрын
@@ryanleemartin7758 All the big guys are locking down but I think redhats is more a defensive posture to keep the code more static, although it sucks for downstream many of the downstream distros already have a backup plan, reminds me of when Apple closed off Herd and everyone was pissed.
@tolstoy143 10 ай бұрын
Its so odd to see Red Hat and Microsoft essentially switch positions…
@ryanleemartin7758 10 ай бұрын
@@tolstoy143 embrace, extend, extinguish?
@KiraSlith 10 ай бұрын
I've been using Bunsenlabs for a while, it's a continuation of Crunchbang's ethos of efficiency while also tweaking itself to be as power-user friendly as it can be. (only big downside I've run into is having to drop to a safe mode shell just to install Nvidia's drivers) Since you're going on the anti-corp war path anyway, any chance you'll give that one a review?
@RyanBragg84 10 ай бұрын
Always stay true to your convictions. I recently switched to Debian for the same reasons on what Ubuntu is doing. Using qtile so far on it.
@JeffWF73 10 ай бұрын
Everything IBM touches or purchase falls apart.
@LackofFaithify 10 ай бұрын
Gnome's leadership also thinks it should be nearly impossible to uninstall mahjong without putting users into the situation where you can uninstall the entire desktop, since, you know, solitaire is a vital dependency. Also all 8000 translations in firefox. The list goes on. Soooooo, probably not the best thing to raise up as a bad thing to do.
@mrz80 10 ай бұрын
The irksome thing for me re: Gnome (and for that matter KDE) is that every new iteration of the environment lost some flexibility/configurability. I've been using linux as my primary home and work OS for over 25 years now, and I am very particular about how my X desktop is laid out. First Gnome, then KDE, made it more difficult and then impossible to shove the toolbars/widgets/stickynotes, terminal windows, etc, around precisely how I'd like. How is it that making it less possible for the user to do things the way they want making things *more* user friendly?!?!?! Gnome vs. Unity vs. KDE? XFCE wins for me. :D
@bobpede4647 10 ай бұрын
I just discovered your channel yesterday.I've been using mint for several years and I didn't know you could change the colors of folders.Thanks.What else don't I know about Mint?
@EHKvlogs 10 ай бұрын
For these obvious reasons, i have switched from ubutnu to debian, the transition was smooth.
@joshallen128 10 ай бұрын
The thing that sucks is driver support
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
@@joshallen128Not really anymore as of Debian 12. Nonfree firmware is now included if the live environment detects it is needed and only if it is needed.
@frustratedalien666 10 ай бұрын
This is one of the reasons why I stuck with Debian and Debian-based distros even when companies were looking specifically for RedHat knowledge and RHEL certification. RHEL has always been pseudo proprietary and I've disliked it since the beginning. I now dabble with multiple distros but I am vary of tools built by for-profit companies that can pull a RedHat move at any minute (I am specifically talking about Canonical's Ubuntu and EQT Partner's OpenSUSE)
@st4rbuxx 10 ай бұрын
OK, but Satellite and Ansible Automation Platform are some useful tools for big (corp) environments... there is very little Free Software that approaches that level of sophistication (upstream AWX is OK; Ansible without Tower/controller is pretty good but the pieces don't come together in the same way).
@davidgilpin5200 10 ай бұрын
What has been overlooked here is the APPLICATIONS. Enterprises deploy applications, some of which is "Commercial Off The Shelf" (COTS). In the past, some folks would use one of the free RHEL respins (Scientific Linux, CentOS, Oracle Linux - and more recently AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux) for their non-production testing. Traditionally COTS products would "certify" on either RHEL/CentOS or SUSE. With the rise of OpenStack (where Ubuntu Server was a default OS), more COTS software is now certified on Ubuntu. But there isn't an extensive COTS certified list for Debian. And that's why IBM's announcement last week has caused a lot of turmoil. Some of these commercial customers don't appreciate the idea of being "forced" into buying RHEL, especially in the current worldwide economic situation.
@zenethboiron8563 10 ай бұрын
wow u actually said a lot of things and it didn't even mean anything.
@blueberrydreams7799 10 ай бұрын
Interesting
@kosmonautofficial296 10 ай бұрын
Do you think anything could change with Ansible? I make network automation software and for my needs have focused more on writing my own automation with python. I have been curious to use it but haven't had a huge need. On another note I was affected when Docker made it so some companies had to pay for a license for Docker desktop. You can still install it and get it working but it was unfortunate and wonder if their licensing could get worse too.
@kienanvella 10 ай бұрын
I've been a fedora user for 13 years.... I don't really want to switch, but I'd rather do so before redhat/IBM destroy it too.
@dannycolin 10 ай бұрын
@@FuriouS1976 I run Debian on my servers but packages are really outdated for a daily driver especially if you're a developer. That was mainly why Fedora was so attractive.
@TariqMehmood-1307 10 ай бұрын
Is fedora going to lose its charm
@GoatzombieBubba 10 ай бұрын
They are community driven and is upstream from Red Hat.
@Little-bird-told-me 10 ай бұрын
@@GoatzombieBubba Anything could happen if their masters decide otherwise. All this upstream/downstream is bullshit
@jimmyneutron129 10 ай бұрын
@@GoatzombieBubba community driven but Red Hat owns Fedora trademark and a lot of Red Hat employees work on Fedora
@TravisNewton1 10 ай бұрын
IBM ruins everything it touches. Softlayer was awesome. IBM made it suck. When IBM took over Red Hat, I saw this coming. Red Hat just needs to fork FreeBSD and just keep it closed source since that’s what they seem to want.
@Traumatree 10 ай бұрын
But FreeBSD is miles behind the Linux in everything. But I do love FreeBSD myself, it is not just the performer that Linux is.
@BenTyger 10 ай бұрын
I'm still surprised IBM went and purchased RedHat and not SuSE. SuSE had a long standing Linux support for many of IBMs hardware such as s390, as400/iSeries, x86 for many years, even decades.
@KnightRiderOfVoid 10 ай бұрын
@@BenTygeroh it's really simple, SUSE is german, not the same as buying a US company
@adwaitagnome 10 ай бұрын
@@KnightRiderOfVoid I mean, SUSE was already owned by an American company (Novell) at one point in their life, and it was utter hell for SUSE with layoffs galore. The only good thing to come from that era is openSUSE. 2011 was a breadth of fresh air for SUSE and openSUSE.
@XrayTheMyth23 10 ай бұрын
@@BenTyger Because IBM wants what is already established, Redhat has the government linux server market. Then they run it into the ground, its the IBM way.
@4vladimir 10 ай бұрын
RedHat really does some crazy crap for the last time... CentOS... Layoffs... Now the RHEL source code... What the hell?!
@ilyasabi8920 10 ай бұрын
Of course; since acquisition decisions made by IBM board, what did people expect? 😂
@4vladimir 10 ай бұрын
@@ilyasabi8920 well, IBM started to be an owner since 2014, if I am not mistaken. But what is happening for the last 3 years with RHEL is really crazy. For me personally it is really sad to see it, as I am a Fedora Ambassador & I spend some time on new releases testings etc.. Really looks like it is some dead end..
@wantgoodvibes6166 10 ай бұрын
Thank you. How do you feel about OpenSuse as a corporation and it's backed Linux projects? Or do they go in the same boat? Out of the larger Linux offerings backed by a corporation they seem to have the least amount of headlines that cause big stirs in the overall Linux community., at least that I've seen.... Hopefully Tumbleweed and MicroOS keep on as they have been. On the Debian end, I've used it for years for back end tasks and the recent version release has been a great boon, IMO , :)
@theaveragecactus 11 күн бұрын
correct me if I'm wrong, but opensuse is not corporate owned, rather it's the base for suse enterprise and suse just sponsors them
@AndyK1970 10 ай бұрын
Surely the likes of the Apache Foundation, Mozilla and FSF can stop Red Hat (aka IBM) dead in their tracks for their contravention of the source code publishing clauses in their licenses? Heck, isn't the Linux kernel published under a license that requires source code publication?
@starkfuture1057 10 ай бұрын
No they can’t. Only a court can. They are providing the source code with their product. But the product is behind a different license. I don’t blame RedHat. It was good while it lasted and now it is time to move on to Debian.
@joshallen128 10 ай бұрын
True I mean unless this gets taken to court and maybe a new rewrite of the gpl is needed to close this loophole IDK it's SUS
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
@@joshallen128And that's the problem. The GPLv3 fixed that. Guess what didn't move to the v3 license. The Linux kernel. Guess what did? The GNU coreutils, aka, bash, emacs, etc.
@646464mario 10 ай бұрын
I’m literally in the middle of studying for the RHCE and I kickstarted my Linux studies with RHEL-based distros :(
@ihteshamkhan3951 10 ай бұрын
Complete your certification as planned. This announcement from Red Hat shouldn’t affect large RHEL corporations/subscribers in the long run. That’s where RHEL certification is valuable.
@mauriciooliveda8024 10 ай бұрын
Great video! You have a debian server book like the ubuntu book? I am a new Debian user.
@unklebonehead 10 ай бұрын
I havent finished the entire video but are your thoughts on Pop!_OS the same being that it is a company ran distro?
@diablobarcelona 10 ай бұрын
Time for people to adopt #FreeBSD ... rock solid stable, long history, no corporate
@diablobarcelona 10 ай бұрын
@@GladeSwope there's more history in terms of years for FreeBSD than Linux.
@dfs-comedy 10 ай бұрын
@@diablobarcelona FreeBSD lacks the market share and number of developers. The Linux kernel runs on billions of devices (Android smartphones, for example) and tons of servers and a decent number of desktops. FreeBSD runs on a much smaller number of servers, much smaller number of desktops, and a bunch of proprietary routers and appliances whose source is not open.
@diablobarcelona 10 ай бұрын
@@dfs-comedy my original comment was based on enterprise, not desktop, mobiles, whatever. For enterprises a solid, stable and mature operating system alternative would be FreeBSD vs (RHEL/Rocky/Alma/Blahblahblah).
@ngtube9 10 ай бұрын
I agree trying *BSD instead of Linux, by the way: I use FreeBSD - and it is working good!. But: What is Linux, which of the thousands distributions? And there is not only a fight between RedHat and others, the fight is between so many others. Linux is a very ununique operating system...
@diablobarcelona 10 ай бұрын
@@ngtube9 Linux is not an operating system. its a kernel. Whereas FreeBSD is a complete operating system 😉(Sorry for being pedantic). Hence why I'm saying for enterprise grade OS, IMO FreeBSD ticks boxes. Sure it will not meet the requirements of all, but certainly most I would say it would especially a conservative enterprise like say a bank, but it would need some sort of commercial support backing.
@paul.phillips 10 ай бұрын
What in the world has Red Hat done? CentOS killed, and now they are trying to kill all RHEL clones? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
@eyesoffloraandfauna8728 10 ай бұрын
Roadmap for mastering linux i am cybersecurity student .. suggest some intermediate projects if u know currently using parrot os .. is there any option for customizing look & feel of vmware linux like in mac os
@fullscale4me 10 ай бұрын
Good move Jay! Years back the IBM acquisition of RH gave me a funny feeling. Suggestion for your writing in the future: the current Debian Administrator's Handbook has a server feel like your Ubuntu book. What's missing is sections a desktop user would find relevant. Just a thought as you would be injecting yourself into an existing team. A fellow Michigander.
@tylerdean980 10 ай бұрын
I only use community based distros, the community made Linux, they’re its lifeblood.
@DarthDweeb 10 ай бұрын
So when does the Mastering Debian Server book come out?
@_sneer_ 10 ай бұрын
I am going to migrate my servers maybe to Debian as well. Or maybe Devuan (please comment on pros and cons, as I never used it)? I am already trying Slackware in a virtual machine to see if it is viable for a daily desktop/workstation to move away from Fedora, as I don't want to have anything to do with anything Red Hat. I used to daily it years ago and loved it. It might do for a server as well.
@GuillermoPradoObando 5 ай бұрын
After I heard the news about IBM bought Red hat, I started My migration plan of all my Red hat Linux based distributions. Now I'm happy for that decision.
@BiserAngelov1 10 ай бұрын
I am so glad to see someone having my thoughts about community driven versus company driven operating systems, and refine it to a cohesive statement. Thank you LLTV!
@boratlmao 10 ай бұрын
Honestly i always was wary of company backed distros since sooner or later they'll backstab you but since i fell in love with fedora i ignored it. However redhat's continued and troubling behavior made me reconsider. So is there any distro similar to fedora that isn't opensuse or Arch and it's derivatives? since i kinda had a bad experience with those distros before and i don't wanna repeat it. TIA.
@wa.6006 9 ай бұрын
isn't pop os "slacking" recently? thinking to install it on my laptop
@securitystuff 10 ай бұрын
Hey J, awesome video! but I'm just wondering what's your thought about fedora btw! it won't be affected I think... I'm using that for 7 years. gimme your idea about that or if you can make a video I will appreciate it!
@CraftGodsOfficial 10 ай бұрын
As a noob im just grateful for guys like yourself & chris titus & a few others that keep us with solutions to fit our needs ...im compiling from kernel and building on top step by step...i will be honest the commercialization and all the legal stuff makes it a little intimidating for people that want to learn the code base neccessary to build our own things...but i keep going i love learning & building useful things
@classicrockonly 10 ай бұрын
The legal stuff is one reason why I use Free/OpenBSD primarily now, and generally ignore copyleft software when I am building something. Too much legal stuff to worry about when I just want to build something fun and cool
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
@@classicrockonlyThe problem with that is that any person or company can make alterations to the code (including bug fixes) and make the result proprietary under permissive licenses. That's why (in my opinion) GNU & Linux are much better and more successful; copyleft is meant to give everybody the same freedoms that the original copyleft code writers had.
@autohmae 10 ай бұрын
If all you want to do is build something fun and cool, their is no legal issue, as long as you have code, you can do whatever you want with it. You can just not share what you made with others.
@classicrockonly 10 ай бұрын
@@cameronbosch1213 thus, you restrict the user and developer and violate freedom 0. I would surely call Linux very successful, but it most certainly is not because of its license
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
@classicrockonly That _is_ one of the reasons it was successful. Probably not the _only_ reason, but it _was_ a reason.
@TheJoBlackos 10 ай бұрын
Yeah, I feel pretty much the same. All those hours spent on distro I cannot continue to work with because of all the drama they create. I am also moving to Debian, I hope this one will stay drama free, at least until I get retired 😊
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
Believe me, if Debian attempted to pull a Red Hat, there would be much more concerning matters...
@markusmclaughlin2414 7 ай бұрын
I been enjoying F-39 Beta on Fusion, what are everyone's thoughts on that community OS?
@MyReviews_karkan 10 ай бұрын
I love every second of this video. Thank you, Jay. I used to run big corporations distros, but I just stopped. I was planning on having my own server. It will definitely be debian after all this.
@zenethboiron8563 10 ай бұрын
make your own from scratch and not use someone else's hardwork.
@zympf 10 ай бұрын
it begs the question, what is the *new* role of Centos Stream under this scenario?
@alonthedj 10 ай бұрын
I have been using Debian for over 10 years for servers, 100% satisfaction
@Redzeronova 10 ай бұрын
Seeing what happened to CentOS, is it possible for that to happen to Ansible? If ansible would be put behind a paywall are there any good alternatives?
@bryanfogleman4549 10 ай бұрын
Yes, it is possible and a huge concern. You can, and should, expect it to become true at some point. I'll be investigating Puppet. However, I think most other tools use an agent on the client unlike Ansible which could even push Python into place If missing the libraries.
@tockar 10 ай бұрын
Do you plan to release a new book on maintaining servers, this time focused on Debian?
@TON-vz3pe 10 ай бұрын
😅
@attemptedpolymath9660 10 ай бұрын
I've been a very happy Fedora user for about 3 years but this whole situation has me questioning that decision. As you say the drama is stressful. Seriously looking at alternatives at this point as I don't really feel like supporting this mess. I've looked at Arch in the past because of this same anxiety but honestly there seems to be a lot of drama there too. And I'm not convinced I want to go with a rolling release. And then there's Debian which I have very little experience with beyond Ubuntu which I don't really like. So I guess it's time to do some research and thinking. But yeah this situation has hurt the Linux community for sure. And the Fedora community should be pissed about it. But as I understand things they exist because of the benevolence of Redhat and that alone is concerning.
@chlorophyllphile 10 ай бұрын
I'm very disappointed that a large part of Fedora users seems to defend Redhat. Maybe it is time for a Fedora fork that is independent of Redhat but that will not succeed if the community doesn't want to follow.
@PixelOverload 10 ай бұрын
What's the drama with Arch? Been using it for years but haven't paid much attention to community stuff
@investrada 10 ай бұрын
I like fedora. Should we move to Debian 12 desktop? It's stable but outdated compared to fedora. Any other distros (no rolling updates, please) that's up to date like fedora with gnome? For 2010s hardware? And isn't IBM is paying Linus? Thanks!
@attemptedpolymath9660 10 ай бұрын
@@investrada I don't know that much yet but from what I can see the latest Debian is on gnome 43, Fedora 38 is gnome 44. So that's not too bad. Of course from what I understand Debian has much longer release cycles. But honestly I'm already happy on gnome 42 (I'm still on Fedora 36 here) so figure I should be find on gnome 43 for awhile to come. I find the Fedora cycles to be too short anyway so I skip every other version anyway. I also don't like the idea of rolling releases which is why Arch seems like it's not an option. I'm just starting this research now so it's possible I won't ever get to installing Deb 12 and I'll find something better but I'm not keen on these weird custom tweaked forks of bigger projects like Nobara (a fork of fedora that's getting lots of attention). I feel I'm maturing in terms of what I want from Linux so if I can get everything I want from Debian I may go that way.
@attemptedpolymath9660 10 ай бұрын
@@PixelOverload to me a rolling release is the drama.
@user-wx9gz1pw1s 8 ай бұрын
Well said. Red Hat and Canonical just put drama where there is no need for it, thanks for pointing that out. Cut the drama, use non-Corporate Linux.
@user-so5vl9ee6g 10 ай бұрын
I was thinking about moving to Kubuntu 23.04 but after what you said about Ubuntu and the company that owns it im thinking again about another distro, is Debian 12 good for a complete beginner?😢
@gnappoforever 10 ай бұрын
I'm a little bit confused about one single thing in the red-hat drama: where Fedora sits in there? Isn't it also a distribution based on RH? Am I missing something? I've used Ubuntu and its flavours for about 10 years, Arch for some time, new user to the Fedora community. Do I have to think about letting go Fedora and instead give another shot to Arch? I switched to Fedora just to avoid snap. I know I can apt purge snapd, but it seems to me switching to another platform to be a safer way to do so. Also, sorry to listen you'll drop your flavour. I didn't know about it, or I'll definetely tried it. I don't know if now it has any sense, being discontinued.
@CrossHusky 10 ай бұрын
Fedora is the base for RHEL, contrary to popular belief.
@gnappoforever 10 ай бұрын
@@CrossHusky thank you for the info! I don't know why I was sure it to be the contrary. Better this way
@ilyasabi8920 10 ай бұрын
@@CrossHusky that also doesn't mean changes to RHEL won't effect other red hat projects certainly. There will be consequences and that will affect red hats decisions in the future. At best it will create friction on the core and community built outer layer.
@samuelitooooo 10 ай бұрын
Sigh. The #1 reason I wanted Ubuntu is for their flavor, Ubuntu Studio. Debian doesnt seem to have anything like that. A nice collection of optional groups of packages, and tweaked and pre-configured for audio. (EDIT: Debian also doesn't have PPAs.) Now I'm scared for 24.04 LTS. One showstopper when it comes to my computer in particular is Wi-Fi drivers. I guess it's time to look at a ThinkPenguin adapter, which this channel has covered before. EDIT: In retrospect, I've always wondered why MXLinux (a Debian derivative, not Ubuntu) topped Distrowatch rankings. What are the chances that it's at least partially for reasons discussed in this video?
@basilcat3111 10 ай бұрын
I think AV Linux is a good alternative.
@trueriver1950 10 ай бұрын
I'm certain that this is one important reason underlying the DistroWatch rankings.
@AnalogFennec 10 ай бұрын
Would you be able to go into Suse in regards to this? How've they been as a corp?
@basilcat3111 10 ай бұрын
SUSE is also a company, the only thing they did was ALP, but even then it is not as severe as what red hat/ibm and canonical are doing.
@NetBandit70 10 ай бұрын
Suse needs to die. Wasted talent tied up that could move to the community.
@sosoda719 8 ай бұрын
Doesn’t NOT releasing the source code violate the GPL, which is the license the Linux kernel is under? Isn’t that like illegal?
@majstorgile 10 ай бұрын
I guess having Alma Linux Desktop was not best idea I had....
@ianperkins8812 10 ай бұрын
I had been a CentOS user since about 2005, but when Red Hat pulled the plug on CentOS 8 (which I had just migrated my small home lab to), I simply re-implemented everything in Debian and never looked back. I get where you're coming from with Canonical (and agree), but now I wonder about Suse's relationship with the OpenSuse community. I understand that relationship is and has been very good, but perhaps that reflects a cultural difference, as Suse is a European company. and Red Hat and Canonical are not.
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
Canonical is U.K. based. Suse I think is German.
@phoenixrising4995 10 ай бұрын
UK and US have more company oriented legislation, EU is not so nice to companies and SUSE is a drop in the bucket compared to IBM. Ironically Valve is doing most of the goodwill work massaging hardware support into Linux to escape the clutches of MS and their DX monopoly.
@jamesyoung151 10 ай бұрын
I moved from RedHat when they issued stock in 1999. I saw the writing on the wall back then. I used Mandrake as a stopgap until I found Gentoo Linux in 2002. I stuck with them since. I do have a machine I built with Arch as a daily driver. I'm testing Nix on a laptop, but I'm not sure I will go with that one as a daily driver. To add, Gentoo is a great server OS. I built a Gentoo server and it served me well for many years until I retired the machine due to the difficulty of finding parts for it.
@spinkey4842 8 ай бұрын
reminds me of a parent trying to get their child to not something they don't agree with, but the harder they try, the harder the child will push back and rebel.
@Gizepi 10 ай бұрын
On a similar vein, FreePBX is now owned and run by Sangoma and runs on a Linux known as Sangoma Linux. I used to run FreePBX long before it was owned by Sangoma and back then it was "Open Source". However, since the "FreePBX" has run on Sangoma Linux the FreePBX prooduct has become a pain in the backside to get to function the way I used to get it to work. I can't help suspect that there are underlying non-published changes in the Sangoma linux that effectively causes FreePBX to be problematic unless it is installed on in-house Sangoma equipment that I presume actually uses a completely different Sangoma Linux. I have as a result abandoned anything FreePBX and everything Sangoma. They broke my trust.
@nobloat5702 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for that detailed coverage! One of the best I've seen on this whole drama. I have been thinking of switching to Debian with Sway as well. Is there a way to have a minimal Debian install and use just Sway?
@user-ps5up3og2h 10 ай бұрын
> Is there a way to have a minimal Debian install and use just Sway? Of course! Just use the default netinstall image and make sure no DEs are selected when you're asked which software to install. You'll end up in a base system and sway is just a single apt install away.
@petevenuti7355 10 ай бұрын
What happened to fedora? Where does that fit into this? My 1st Linux experience was fedora4.. never got into it, I haven't done anything really with computers the last 20 years.. my laptop's over 20 years, my phone over 10 and faster than the laptop, but im trying to get back into it..
@hotrodjones74 10 ай бұрын
Man, the new release of Debian 12 Bookworm is very fortuitous for the FOSS community. I have it on my old Asus Intel gen1 i5 laptop and it's the fastest this computer has worked in years. This is my rock music recording machine. A whole hard drive dedicated to recording everything I play on my guitar and band practices. I'm strongly considering moving from Pop!_OS to Debian 12 on my main machine as well (Tuxedo Aura 15 gen1). If I can get my main games on Steam to work Debian will be my new mainstay.
@worldhello1234 10 ай бұрын
Yes, not many shareholders invest in privacy and freedom. 15:45 Yes, but there is more than one big blob of people when it comes to desktop environments and a community is more than just people in general or volunteers who share a common interest. It needs some sort of relationship between those people.
@llortaton2834 10 ай бұрын
i really wonder what this distro is gonna look like without the support of the community.
@tockar 10 ай бұрын
Red Hat Enterprise Linux is a distro for big paying corpos, although you can use it for free up to 16 systems if you make a developer account.
@llortaton2834 10 ай бұрын
I am saying i wonder what this distro is gonna look like without the support of the linux community.
@pw1187 10 ай бұрын
@@llortaton2834 same as it is now.. red hat pays developers to work on their distribution. The company makes around two and a half billion a year.
@locatemarbles 10 ай бұрын
It remains to be seen how many will eventually flee the Redhat ecosystem. What many don't understand is that people who run Redhat (and its derivatives) on servers often run Fedora on their desktop. It would be an inconvenience to run a Debian server and Fedora on the desktop. If enough people flee the Redhat server system for Debian, Fedora users will decrease too.
@pw1187 10 ай бұрын
@@locatemarbles my guess not many from there main target audience.. the vast majority of the companies that use red hat... Could careless about this
@s4vi0r 10 ай бұрын
Fantastic Video. Very explanatory. In Brazil, in general, not much has been said about the subject. But I liked your views, not just on Red Hat, but Canonical as well. In the end, now you can understand why Linux Mint maintains two versions - One with Ubuntu and the other with Debian - I think it's close to what you said here. Big hug from Brazil!
@user-od4gu5cb3z 10 ай бұрын
I have recently dual-booted my PC with POP OS but while i am using it the screen starts flickering whenever I make a cursor move. This only happens in laptop display but not on any external monitor. Can anyone help me fix this issue.
@fevangelou 10 ай бұрын
Well, Flatpak is highly promoted by Red Hat, the #1 competitor to Canonical. So it's a "them vs us" in this case. Aside all that, indeed RH has every right to protect their product. And if any dev wants to support RHEL, the free dev licenses should be enough. But if you use Linux FOR the apps that are created for it, nothing stops you from switching to another OS if you don't want to pay licenses. As for Canonical, it probably won't go the RH way as they are not the source but an intermediary, Debian is the source here & every sane sysadmin should be thankful for Debian's existence.
@cameronbosch1213 10 ай бұрын
Debian is awesome; can't argue with that, and Debian 12 is probably the best version of Debian yet, with almost all DEs (apart from GNOME) on their latest version at the time of Bookworm's (Debian 12) release, Flatpak now on a version that is fully functional, and nonfree drivers included on the installation media when needed (which on modern hardware is pretty much a given), I think Debian could overtake Red Hat and I hope more companies support it, because it truly embodies the spirit of FOSS: Collaboration between many different users making a product better for all of them and more. I think Red Hat had their moment in the sun, but as they say: "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain." - They.
@chlorophyllphile 10 ай бұрын
Isn't RHEL also an intermediary? Fedora and CentOS Stream are both upstream of it.
@JanDahl 10 ай бұрын
Might just move to FreeBSD on my last handful of non-Windows servers 😢
@joshallen128 10 ай бұрын
Yes least you can integrate zfs
@brenthendricks8182 10 ай бұрын
So one question I have, is will they still be able to include tools and subsystems that are under GPLv3? As this is something Apple was affected by, since there are large portions of Mac OS that Apple refuses to provide the source code to. So there were not able to update SAMBA, Nano, and BASH.
@compelledcatholic6341 10 ай бұрын
For desktop, what do you think of LMDE?
@joshallen128 10 ай бұрын
I like it just a pain to install device drivers but eh
@atreusduvelll600 10 ай бұрын
Great video and a great take. Where do you stand with respect to Pop_OS!'s relationship with System 76? I know you have been a fan and supporter of them in the past, so curious on how you view that relationship. Obviously, S76 is more of a small business when compared to the behemoths of Canonical and Red Hat, but they are for profit, nonetheless. Keep up the great content, Jay!
@mmstick 10 ай бұрын
The System76 business model relies on hardware sales rather than restricting access to open source software behind a subscription model. We're strongly opposed to the idea of blocking access to source code. Hence we are developing open source firmware and open hardware. The CAD files are open source. Pop!_OS and COSMIC would collapse without hardware sales. It's where our salaries come from.
@6bOemH2gKz 10 ай бұрын
@@mmstick Pop os is not fully open-sourced...
@mmstick 10 ай бұрын
@@6bOemH2gKz What are you talking about? I work here. Everything we do is open source. Even the ISO build scripts.
@atreusduvelll600 10 ай бұрын
@@mmstick great point Michael! Since your business model isn’t about selling support/licenses it wouldn’t make sense to close things off. I appreciate you chiming in here
@Stevos-Corner 10 ай бұрын
Great video Jay! How can Redhat put the code behind a paywall when they didn’t write it all? They didn’t write the kernel or the code for every gnu tool. Wouldn’t the writers of the code for the other packages they are using to actually make Redhat a complete distro have some say? Hmmmm….. I can see Microsoft buying out Canonical in the future. That’s my prediction. I’ll always steer clear of company owned distros. Canonical, SUSE, Redhat, etc…
@WhatWillYouFind 10 ай бұрын
The license allows it under the letters of the law. Linux and the modern internet requires cooperation and "hand shake" agreements where people don't abuse the other parties . . . . Redhat can ingest code from the broad code base and put it behind the paywall because there is SOME kind of access both in free and paid pathways. The problem is that if Redhat ever stops contributing in the future, then some major legal action will need to be made to rescind their ability to use that license AND update the legalese of our open source licenses to prevent it from happening again.
@trueriver1950 10 ай бұрын
Is it legal under the GPL for RedHat to do this? (10:48) Linus T has said that the best thing he ever did was to GPL the Linux kernel. The effect of the Gnu Public Licence is that if you modify GPL'd code you must make the source available. Sure, you can stop others using your trademarks (as Red Hat has always done) but you can't stop them from using your code once the trademarks are removed. What am i missing here, please?
@enpassant7358 8 ай бұрын
I switched from Xubuntu to Fedora just a few months before RedHat made their announcement. It's a shame too because I was really liking it. The latest Debian release is looking impressive though so I think that is the route I will be taking now. Distro's have come along way since my Slackware 3 days and installing Linux with a bunch of floppy disks. 😀
@neandertalac 10 ай бұрын
Debian 12 is totally user friendly, we as community waited for too long for that. I have XFCE there, I have 32-bit and ARM support. This is the way. I even have snaps, if I want them.
@manicmarauder 10 ай бұрын
Maybe it's time for a Debian book.
@WallaceRoseVincent 10 ай бұрын
Does IBM stock price go up or down?
@stevengrimes371 10 ай бұрын
Canonical has sure alienated a huge portion of its user base, with the forcing of snaps,
@jonspoonamore3721 10 ай бұрын
Old Network/System Admin here (I started in the early 90's).... I have not installed Redhat in several years. But... They were on my "Trusted List" until now. As for Canonical/Ubuntu, I gave up on them when 16.04 was released. This was the 1st version they treated like a BETA and let the end-users debug. IMO.... This mess was a page from Microsoft's Playbook. Now.... I currently only trust 2 distros for server installs: Debian and Slackware.
@PaulaXism 8 ай бұрын
That takes me back. When I started out as a sysadmin we had the lovely choice of "Roll your own Unix ... or SunOS 2.0" I still have an ancient fileserver which runs the last ever OpenSolaris release from Sun themselves (6.something) and it is still just carrying on a treat. Oracle from what I can see have kept with the tradition of keeping a free version available.. Maybe they gain from having a hundred or so community "parasites" debugging their junk when it breaks. Not me tho.. I run Gentoo on my servers.. because isn't being a sysadmin supposed to be hard?
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