JOIN our Locals community to hear *Peter* answer audience questions. CLICK the link: triggernometry.locals.com/ CHAPTERS👇 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Lessons Learnt From Street Epistemology 08:29 Does the Education System Fail to Teach Critical Thinking? 13:30 How Peter Teaches Critical Thinking 14:33 Active Failures in Education 17:49 Selection Bias in Street Epistemology 20:13 Monoculture Taught in US Colleges 22:33 Sponsor Message: MUD\WTR 24:01 Being Confronted With the Other Side of the Argument 28:09 Teaching People to Separate Ideas From Identities 31:20 Teachers Indoctrinating Future Generations 39:27 How Do We Fix Our Education & Media Institutions? 46:20 Sponsor Message: GiveSendGo 47:32 How Do We Listen to Understand? 54:44 Can This Ideology be Corrected Without Catastrophe? 1:00:08 'America Marching Towards Hospice' 1:08:18 What's the One Thing We're Not Talking About?

Thank you so much for having me on your show. I really enjoyed our conversation.

I finished high school in the late 80's and you could see the deliberate distraction away from critical thinking (and into feelings) even then. By the time I'd been working for ten years (around 9/11) you could REALLY see the effect in young/new employees, who had a strange excess of faux (and narc like) over-confidence but nothing to back it up. My best friend's kid asked his dad and I not to be 'racist' around his visiting friends recently, which was sad as we've never said anything remotely racist/bigoted around him but have regularly spoken critically about our mutual love of films/music. The kids have unfortunately been 'taught' that anything critical based is a negative, mean and therefore racist while encouraged to virtue signal instead to over-compensate and conform....like creepy cultists.

Peter is like a hero in an 80s revenge movie, "they murdered his honest debate, they tried to indoctrinate his students, and they made his dog use genderless pronouns - at first he couldn't even speak because it was so stupid, but now he's back...and he is *PISSED*.."

I'm a high school teacher. Man, I wish I could sit down with people and tell them how completely screwed the education system is right now. Every day I come home frustrated at the lack of expectations, discipline, rigor, and general academic integrity - all of it sacrificed in the name of diversity, equity, and inclusivity. Things have been trending this way for many, *many* years which is why it is all so deeply entrenched in the system. I often tell my conservative friends that we "lost the war in education before we even knew we were fighting one." It's such a mess and it is so depressing.

We're going through a the equivalent of a rapid global intellectual dark age, but due to the speed of change I'm hoping the renaissance is just around the corner.

"People deserve dignity, ideas don't deserve dignity." I think this should be baked into everyone's mind.

As a pensioner i can tell you what you believed in your younger years becomes very unimportant later.

The Socratic method has actively been discouraged for a while now, lots of my friends kids have never learnt to write an argumentative essay and have been graded negatively by their ideologically devolved teachers if they ever write non-compliantly. We had extra (and forced) ideological heavy classes when I was at uni in the early 90's, where we just sadly learnt to write what the ideologue-teachers wanted in order to just complete the nonsense classes.

In my final 2 years of high school in Australia back in the late 1970s, the secondary school curriculum had a compulsory subject called "critical thinking". It was by far my favorite subject, because it encouraged honest fact-based debate, and a healthy respect for the opinions of others. This subject was abandoned in the 1980s. We are paying the price now, as we have taught our children to be mindless idiots who accept whatever claptrap the mass market media feeds them. Its dire.

”Propaganda is a monologue that is not looking for an answer, but an echo.” - W. H. Auden "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." - George Orwell

I work in middle school really good district and whoa 🤯 I could tell you STORIES!!!! Critical thinking is not on the agenda.

Critical thinking is not dead. It's on Life support. It can be found though in the hearts and minds of those who like me had to flee tyrannical communist dictatorship.

They teached us what to think, not how to think. It took me many years to deprogram myself. But now I'm ready. I live the truth. The only way to be.

We need more Peter boghossian's

I just ran into Peter a few evenings ago in a local hometown bar/restaurant. Got to visit with him a bit and shake his hand. Guy is approachable and super humble. Wish I’d have known he had done this interview at the time.

Critical think has been replaced with thinking with your feelings. Its easier and more enjoyable to be outraged about something than it is understanding the complexities and historical events of an issue.

If a child dares to use critical thinking and verbalises their thoughts in school they are likely to be punished in some way.

‘An unexamined life is a life not worth living’ - Socrates

Peter is one of the few voices that has the balance needed to fix this problem. It’s not left or right, but rather focused on the systems of improvement no matter who is in control.

I miss when we debated in my family. My uncle loved it and was amazing. He would even switch sides if he saw you changing your mind, just for fun. But the next gen was getting increasingly sensitive and aggressive in debating (Went from intentional attacks to hurt intentionally instead of winning on merit to lately declaring me evil and storming off for saying one thing and not grovelling but protesting I didn't mean what they thought I meant.), just as I was learning to be more rational from him. Then Tr&mp and c@vid, suddenly even he struggled with debate and everyone only listened to their increasingly tight echo chamber. Now only me and his son can debate, in private.

3 persons I respect a lot. Peter deserves a bigger audience. Very interesting person and channel.

My kids are grown now but in the early 2000’s , my child’s elementary math teacher told the class that Barrock Obama should be elected because he was of color. My kid comes home so happy with this morsel of understanding about the adult world. I was livid. Presidents, nor anyone else, should not be chosen based upon melanin abundance. But back to what relates to this conversation…the teacher was hired to teach 5th grade math, not politics. Teachers need to teach their subjects without sharing their opinions.

I'm Brazilian and an "educator" Paulo Freire defended the "pedagogy of the oppressed", that is, the class struggle began in the classroom. It is no coincidence that Brazil is at the bottom of PISA

I taught in a law school in the early 2000's. My students were ill-educated. They knew no history so to speak of and used the English language like it was a second language and they had no first language.

I began teaching on the secondary level and within three years moved to the college level. From there I transitioned to the university level, eventually teaching graduate courses and becoming a University Supervisor for Student Teachers. I got to see the cesspool that is American education on all levels---from pre-K through graduate school and doctoral programs. In one of my graduate classes two students had to be dropped from the course and then from the program because they were unable to write a complete sentence; academic writing was a foreign language to them; both were reading on the 5th grade level on a good day; critical thinking skills were non-existent. Thirty years ago the curriculum began its dumbing down process----lockstep with the multicultural and diversity movements. Instead of encouraging students to aim for excellence, educators on the federal and state levels aimed for mediocrity----everything was allowed to slide, from disciplinary problems to homework to the curriculum. Social promotion has been the norm for years now. The end result: The federal and state governments deliberately looked to create an education system whereby students don't have to learn anything----because every subject is somehow magically racist by design. Minorities and all students were told that functional illiteracy was acceptable. Math and science courses were denigrated and vilified because they were for nerdy white kids. Scholastic achievement was ridiculed in the black community, and parents embraced the dumbing down of the curriculum because it meant their children could continue their spotty attendance record, and be passed along from grade to grade without having to learn much. Colleges and universities also embraced this plan. For example, literature majors years ago studied Shakespeare---sometimes for two semesters. Today, English departments at many colleges and universities don't even offer a course in Shakespearean drama because students complained the language in the plays was too difficult to read. Instead, trendy courses featuring pop culture literature are often the norm. Students' self-esteem and their ability to relate to the material are more important than quality of content or any critical thinking skills that the literary canon demands. "I feel" is what counts. Critical thinking is a seen as something to be avoided because if students and parents could "think," then they'd realize they were opting for a bottom of the barrel education for their children. The goal is to produce students who can't think, who rely on the system for everything, who question nothing because they are told what to believe and never criticize the system that's keeping them malleable to achieve that quiescent, unthinking populace that is so desirable for social and political control. The education system is a mess----and if Americans could "think," they'd realize that the federal and state government mandates for education are not doing their children any favors. Rather, those so-called "reforms" are designed to keep children, teens and adults as a permanent underclass unable to critically think and analyze issues. Mediocrity is the norm today, and the chilling prospect of a future fueled by imposed equality and DEI is seen in Kurt Vonnegut's short story, "Harrison Bergeon." Read that story, and you'll see exactly where the educational system and the government wants people to go in the 21st century. Critical thought: neither wanted nor encouraged. Think at your own risk.

Missing from all these discussions is the primary thing tanking education: KIDS DO NOT READ FOR PLEASURE. Most of my complex language skills, 3/4 of the content I ever got, was from my own reading. It enabled me to come to class and question what I was being taught (I was a total pain in the ass to my teachers because I was usually correct!) And by middle school I'd identified the teachers who indocrinated rather than taught (or were just poor teachers); they resented bringing up other facts and arguments, while the good teachers welcomed them. The absolute fundamental key to independent thinking is independent reading. Of ANYTHING, but initially preferably of fiction, biography, history. There are a ton of excellent books out there, mostly written over 50 years ago (the Landmark history series is brilliant). How about starting a national organization of reading and discussion clubs where kids discuss what they've read--first learning (and working out) a set of rules for civil discussion?

This is so 100 percent true. People can't be told things bluntly anymore. I work with someone who is habitually late. I addressed the issue with this person and they couldn't function with the fact that I was calling them out (respectfully but very directly) on their lack of work ethic. the first thing they did was try and tell me how I wasn't taking their feelings into consideration, how I wasn't letting them be heard. At that point I straight up told them their feelings on the matter were subjective because nothing I said was offensive. This is the kind of gaslighting BS that is now part of our day to day discourse. Someone needs a dose of reality, you appropriately point this out, and then you're told that you're the one with the problem.

I never heard him swear before...I love it! Haha! Can't wait to watch this!

Phenomenal episode! Peter is an epistemological rockstar!!! Please keep pushing the dialogue toward “what can we do about this mess we’re in?” And away from just complaining about it. I’ve been complaining and listening to people complain for far too long. I want to start taking actual steps in the right direction.

🔥Amazing conversation, I love you all guys. Peter and his Grievance team are heroes to me

Massive fan of Boghossian. And this channel. You chaps are my go-to for intelligent discussion - something that wokery is threatening to kill.

I attended Catholic schools through 2 years of university. Taught by sisters and priests, including Jesuits. I always say the most important thing I was taught was how to learn. How to analyse, research; how to read, and to comprehend what I read; how to express myself clearly in writing and in speech. Structure and discipline, so that we had an atmosphere of learning.

Those street workshops are tremendous, they should be compulsory in Secondary school in England.

I wish Peter would teach philosophy on KZfaq

I heard about Peter from a woke person years and years ago, back when he was merely challenging religious beliefs. One can only speculate how this person's head is spinning now that Peter took on the woke culture and exposed the lack of critical thought and the influx of mob mentality. Very happy to see you guys interview him!

I started out in IT, but I wanted to save a small part of the world via science education: first a decade or so teaching science to high school kids, then molding the curriculum, changing the zeitgeist and education paradigms, so I gave up my lucrative IT career and went back to uni, to get a teacher's certificate in one of the best relevant institutions. The one year I spent there before I bailed was almost completely useless. It almost never taught me anything about "how to teach science to high school kids better". I did not want 4 more years of that. I went back to IT. I'm sad I did not get to save the world, because it REALLY needs some serious saving, but nowadays I'm working from home for 20x (twenty times) as much money as I could get for teaching. I'm very, very thankful for people such as yourselves for doing some of the work I intended to do.

I don’t know what the Nobel people are up to; but if at some point in this generation, Boghossian is not awarded the Peace Prize for his work in Street Epistemology, then the organization is irreparably broken. Such an important and beautiful effort to reveal the full complexity of human thought and motivation.

I am adopted, but sadly both of my adopted parents have passed away. Could I adopted by these three? I am 54 years old so maybe there are issues...but what an Xmas dinner conversation!

Probably the most important topics of our time discussed here.

I have always loved debate, talking with people animatedly about concepts, ideas and positions. It has, throughout my life, been criticised as confrontational, critical, difficult. I struggled to understand why so many people found no joy in exploring ideas in conversation. The last few years have been even worse. Now people have embraced the concept of attack through words and interpret attack in disagreement. Fundamentally many people become highly offended by being asked the reasoning behind their positions - usually because they realise they have little to none. My daughter was upset because I asked her reasoning behind her position on Israel and Palestine. I said to her that she could explore her ideas safely at home, test them and challenge them. Refine them, change them, adapt them. That our conversations were her space for determining what made most sense to her. This is borrows much from Peterson’s idea of thinking through talking.

Now that I have come to know of Peter Borghissian whom I never knew before, all i can say is that i have become a great admirer of his. Thank you very much, Konstantin, for this video.

One of the best skills I ever learned, is to take a position, but then change sides to argue the opposite opinion in a debate. Your ability to argue a stance you don't believe it, strengthens your critical thinking and understand a topic from all positions instead of adhering to an ideology.

Peter is an absolute GEM. PSU did not/does not deserve such a powerful teacher. I also think we the people need to infiltrate accrediting bodies.

Great pople having a great conversation! Thank you

Good to see someone get fired up

Great to listen to you all having a civilised conversation about major issues, thank you

Changing your opinion on the basis of evidence is not just a "good" thing to do, it's an INTELLIGENT thing to do.

I wish there were more discussions like this available, not only on social media but on television, too. I trained as a biochemist and toxicologist to postdoc. level between 1984 and 1991, and I observe supposedly educated young people nowadays with an increasing sense of disbelief. If a university isn't the best place in which to explore a range of ideas and to develop a sense of critical analysis as second-nature, rather than being an echo-chamber for one's own preconceptions, then society as we've come to know it is truly lost. Perhaps the most worrying aspect of this change is that our future researchers and educators, in the social 'sciences' at least and possibly the humanities more generally, will be drawn from this generation, members of which, it seems, are now largely either unable or unwilling to consider a range of opinions from which to draw their own conclusions, rather than blindy accepting the views of others. Without wishing to draw a comparison with the method of reasoning in the 'hard sciences', even if we stay within the realms of the humanities, take the example of the Law. A competent lawyer should be able, using a single body of evidence, to be capable of analysing the material and to present a case for either side of the argument, thus using their ability to evaluate one set of 'facts' from two opposing viewpoints. How will this be possible when universities and law schools will have to 'de-programme' their candidates before even starting to train them how to think properly?

Easiest podcast I’ve listened to in years. Great points and very engaging. All I could think about is how much Peter dumbs himself down during his street interviews and how patient he must be to do so. Thank you for a great interview!

“The US is marching towards hospice” is the most accurate characterization of the slow decline of the US I’ve ever heard. It’s evident to many of us, maybe especially to those of us who are naturalized citizens & who remember the stark contrast we felt when moving from our native countries to the US. Certainly, the US is not the same place it was when I moved here in the late 90s.

"The only thing people want more than to know what is true is to belong". Brilliant.

Is Tom Sowell lurking in the background. He's been talking about this for 30 years.

Pumped for this one! Epic work, gentlemen!

Every day that passes, I grow ever more grateful for the homeschool hybrid school we’ve got in our town. It’s a 4 by 4 model (four days for four hours) with licensed veteran teachers who are committed to a classical education. Parents handle all the enrichment and reinforcement while teachers handle new instruction. It’s an amazing partnership. I know not everyone can manage that, but I’m so grateful we can. The curriculum is Memoria Press which is unapologetically, thoroughly, definitively Classical. Recitation, Latin beginning grade 2 (they’ll be reading classic works in Latin by grade 12), the Great Books, rhetorical training, etc. It’s an unapologetic rediscovery of Western education that was the norm up until about 80 years ago. Honestly, the more I see about the state of public education, the more convinced I am that this is the way.

I really enjoyed this podcast. One thing often overlooked is this dodgy doctrine that oppresses critical thinking has infected the UK military, and that is fatal.

In college I discovered logic classes, took them all (3) it changed my life , seriously. I also thought it should be taught in high school. Reason and critical thinking 1 & 2 were very useful. My class in formal logic was interesting but not as useful.

Thank you. Perfect wording to describe it.

"Ralston College and University of Austin are the only two colleges fighting back" You didn't mention Hillsdale College, which never got stupid in the first place. There are also small, inexpensive religious colleges that are dedicated to their own faith and a solid education.

Great conversation, guys! Thank you! Very encouraging to hear about issues, how to listen and how to address them.

Well done guys for presenting this.

Peter is the GOAT!!!

Great conversation!

Amazing conversation, thank you!

I was just thinking to myself ‘I love these guys! They ask such great questions and they let their guests speak - it’s so refreshing’ when Konstantin said that’s (essentially) the feedback they frequently receive. It was a couple of their interviewees that brought me to this channel, but it was Francis and Konstantin that kept me coming back and eventually subscribing. I watch their interviews with people I’ve never heard of talking about topics I’ve never been exposed to before because I know they’ll make it worth my time for the reasons listed above. Such a great channel!

Excellent Thanks for a great talk Sharing 🕊 Are we awake now 🕊

Australian children are also being tought to think with their feelings and report to authorities, HR, even bosses, any incident that challenges them and makes them feel uncomfortable. I was effectively cancelled by a 20 yr old whom I asked to perform her duties and engage with an attitude of teamwork. Her responses were hysterical, crying bullying to employer and threatening legal action if I was not removed. Who do you think lost that battle 😢 Incidentally she was 2 weeks away from resigning to go off to University for a second round of indoctrination and Molly coddling. I have bounced back but that particular employer discarded one of their most productive and popular workers 😊

You spoke about the critically thinking dispositions as though they could not be taught, but they can be explicitly taught. They are intellectual humility, intellectual empathy, intellectual integrity, intellectual courage, intellectual autonomy, intellectual perseverance, faith in reason, and fairness (in the sense of not distorting another's position). These are indispensable when it comes to critical thinking and should be taught FIRST. All sophistry is a result of the violation of one or more of these dispositions, also called intellectual traits, or my preferred term, intellectual virtues. Of course, the student must actually practice and integrate them, which is a challenge for all of us.

Changing your mind based on new evidence should be the HIGHEST virtue and treated as such in society.

Another excellent discussion guys

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. ...but in practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

It's such a treat when my favourite creators colab to have interesting conversations. Thank you to all involved, I thoroughly enjoyed watching!

Great conversation, thank you all. I love the way PB considers a question to make sure he understands it and then nods to himself when he knows he does.

Regarding abortion. I wish a retired head of Gynaecology of a large London Hospital which she had worked in for decades could get interviewed. She said that 95% of terminations were because the child was not wanted and they were careless about their birth control. Only 5% were because of rxxe and medical and mental health reasons.

Would love to see this game played in Canadian parliament…

Holy shit!! He used “begging the question” correctly 🎉🎉🎉

Best interview of Boghosian that I've ever seen. Usually the things he says give me no or little food for thought, this time he, or at least the conversation, did.

Great episode chaps and a great guest! 👍

I just went through a teacher education program in the US last year. The entire thing revolved around critical theory and there were multiple instances of political litmus tests to ensure that we were incorporating Freire's ideas into our pedagogy. One of the things that really got me was that the content knowledge of the people most in favor of such ideology was so low that they were unable to question their own beliefs based on evidence. For example, one professor claimed that ableism stems from capitalism, colonialism, and white supremacy. Well what about the Spartans throwing deformed babies off of cliffs? And I know from living in a post-communist country that disabled people had it worse under socialism and still do today because of it. The professors kept saying that we should focus on skills (to be used for "liberation") and not really on content, or perhaps teach content but only if it aligned with anticapitalism, antiracism, etc. I had planned to stay in the US but after that I decided to leave the country. I'd be happy to give an interview about my experiences.

Peter is such a gem. I think in 50 years humans will watch his videos and say how could we be so stupid. He approaches every question with genuine curiosity, always full of respect and stoically mannered. The attacks he endured from woke snowflakes are beyond any dignity and reason. He will be remembered as a hero for humanity

Thank you so much. I love the conversation.

52:00 - Pain is a corrective mechanism. It’s an alert to indicate that something is wrong. It’s indicating that you need to fix a problem, but it’s not telling you how to fix the problem. But, without pain, you’re not even aware that there is a problem. To be oblivious is potentially a fatal fault.

You're supposed to say "why is Critical thinking dead" not "why critical thinking is dead." Such casualness is the reason.

I really like the new format of a semi-circle for the lines. It makes it easier for the participants to engage with each other. It feels more like a discussion.

This was a super great conversation. Thank you!

Really looking forward to this one, Trigger should find a concept similar to Street epistemology as well if they can.

I'm Australian. Recently I've been getting an ad from a group that helps people home-school their children. The ad dispels some common myths and doubts parents tend to have about home-schooling and encourages them to regard it as an option, which I think is the right approach because, having been home-schooled myself, it's very clear to me that a lot of the public doesn't realise what a viable option it really is. I had never seen advertisements for home-schooling prior to this one. On the one hand it's a black pill about the state of woke ideology and education in Australia but on the other hand I believe it's a sign that parents see the problems and want to take action.

Peter Boghossian is the man!! Love listening to him.

The younger generation will not be able to be fixed unless society rediscovers the meaning and value of shame. Wokism is a complete negation of the need for shame.

I'm 61 years old. I grew up in a small farming town near the Mexican border in California. At 23, I found myself, quite by accident, teaching middle school math in the same district where I was raised. It was a terrible seven year experience compared to my time there as a kid. When I was a kid, teachers had real authority. If you didn't get good grades, you didn't pass from one grade to the next. Students were placed in classes based on test scores; those with lower scores were given additional help from teacher’s aides. Most importantly, if you got in trouble at school, you were in big trouble when you got home. When I resigned seven years later, I discovered that the district was, essentially, nothing more than a baby sitting operation. Discipline and critical thinking had become dirty words. I was 30 years old and young enough to make a good career change. Today, I would not recommend education or law enforcement to anyone. What is wrong with public schools--and parents--is that there is no discipline among young people because they've never been shown what self-discipline is all about.

Loved the conversation gentlemen, really helped me understand how to formulate my ideas and listen better to others ❤

Can't wait for this!

Shaping the disposition is the function of CULTURE. The primary agent of Culture is STORIES. We live best when we choose those Stories with CARE.

'How to Have Impossible Coversations' is an outstanding book. Highly recommended.

Nice one - I enjoy when you guys chat with Peter

Great show guys. Love Peter.

57:16 The look on Konstantins face when Peter says "you can say whatever you want to me".... I know that look. I am the same.... when someone says "I dont get offended" I immediate have a devilish plot in my head to try and offend them, thinking "challenge accepted". As Drago says "I must break you" LOL

How do you persuade people who fundamentally think you’re evil simply because you disagree?

LOVE this man's drive and energy.

Peter is really good in this interview! Seen him before but his articulation of the problems with society and education here is bang on!