Bismarck what the fuck why's it de-monetized

Not one conterversial thing in here

Evan C Just KZfaq's algorithm ruining our days, the system doesn't work properly yet...if it ever will...

Bismarck man they need to fix that it's screwing people over

KZfaq is trying to sensor you, and this wonderful piece of history because it has a chance to hurt someone's feelings in someway. We live in a PC world, and it isn't right.

Well, it is a long story. In the 70's Sweden was worried when FAF was retiring it's Folland Gnats and was thinking about making Pori airfield into a MiG-base. Because this was the most western airbase in Finland, swedes didn't like the idea and offered ex-Swedish Air Force Drakens for lease. After a while there were two MiG-bases (Pirkkala and Rissala) and two Draken-bases (Pori and Rovaniemi). Too bad that the Drakens never had proper armament and were equipped with the rotten AIM-4 Falcon. MiG's had up-to-date armament of K-13 AA-missiles.

It was something of an offer Finland couldn't refuse. But hey, if it ended up like the Soviets offering one of their better planes not even available to all of their allies for neutral Finland it wasn't really worth it to start arguing over it. It remains the fastest plane there ever has been in Finnish airforce service.

that's exactly what a robot would _want_ you to think.

Mistah Susan he looks like a russian robot

HE'S A SYNTH!!!!!!!!

mlugin pretty sure he's German.

theangryphotographer he is german i was just kidding

That was the real reason, filling the air defense void. Not from spy planes, but actual WW3. Tension for Cuban crisis was already building up between east&west. 1961 Soviet note for immediate mutual military consultations following the Berlin crisis was the reason for Kekkonen going to USSR in the first place. In any case the competitor for MiG had not been Draken but Mirage III. Draken came later as a consolation - it was not a true Mach 2 jet after all. But In that situation buying NATO fighter was out of the question. And previous Finnish fighter was Folland Gnat, acquired just 5 years earlier,.Vampires had been phased out by then.

Fins would never defend Soviet airspace in a knockdown drag out between the USSR and NATO. Consider that Finland allowed the overflight of 4 B-52's on their way to overfly the Baltic States earlier this year.

Andrew Tubbiolo The only reason why Finland can maintain it's neutrality during the cold war was because the Soviet pledged to give military aid to the Finland in case NATO decide to attack Finland in exchange for Finland neutrality. Once Soviet gone, there's nobody strong enough to defend Finland. US will not take no for an answer and and will overfly Finland airspace with or without consent. Neutrality be damn. Remember "You Are With Us Or Against Us".

America and NATO telling others what they can and cannot have. Hypocrite scum. This is why Finland joined the Arctic Alliance with Russia and Iceland.

What planet do you live on? NATO attack Finland? Did Finland poise 200 motorized rifle divisions to pour into Western Europe? Could Finland flood Western skies with over 4000 combat aircraft? Could she surge 300 warships past the GIUK Gap? Or are you suggesting that NATO has a urgent need for reindeer and sausage soup? If you're going to claim that NATO needs customers for it's arms, well I'm sure you're aware Finland replaced it's Drakens and MiG-21s with F/A-18s. They seem to have made that decision of their own free will unless you have some evidence to show otherwise.

Finno-Russo politics in a nut shell. It actually is almost like that, there is lots of recordings about how the decisions were made and that Soviets trusted a man that they could drink with more. They always offered Vodka when Kekkonen went Fishing / Hunting with Soviet lead. They wanted to deal with a mate not just formally. Also soviets spent time in Finland's summer alot, fishing, hunting, sauna and drink. Kekkonen was so succesfull in politics that there is law in Finland that says one president can't be president for more than two 6 year seasons of precidency, except Urho Kekkonen who can be as long as he wants (kekkonen's exception law). Kekkonen was also people's man, at that time, you could ask a permission to do anything illegal straight from him, and if you got positive answer, you could do that thing. There is stories for people under 18 asking for driving licence and getting it, as well as story of two 15 years old wanting to get married and receiving "yes" from kekkonen so they could do it.

Damn man never knew that things, thanks for insights. Anyway Perkele is sounds damn good ;-) even through I'm half russian. I love finish nature and people and sauna with vodka :)))

Andreas This made my day!

A Finnish Soviet trade diplomat had to have bigger liver than brains.

So basiclly he is a dictator if compare with Western Standand. But a good dictator btw

1986tessie This one is a "bis" (latest) variant and it was made in the mid 80's

svetko05 wow that is still really impressive, the life span of the aircraft and it still makes it 30+ years old.

They still look airworthy. Finns are a decent bunch and might have the good heart to consider donating some of these to the beleaguered Syrians.

1986tessie My fav. looking jet

its looks anything but nice, more like a mean looking plane.

Dunno too much about MiG21, but it was an absolute first class 2 Mach fighter Jet in its time. Was a giant leap from d.H. Vampires and Folland Gnats until the date. Shows just how important Finland was as a puffer zone (and presumed rough time ally) for Soviets. Though a vast majority of Finns were never agreed with the latter.

However by contempary standards it was unsafe and it had a somewhat high attrition rate even in peace time operations and was a widow maker especially in the earlier years of its introduction. This was rectified somewhat by improve revised training protocols, 2 seater Mig 21 delicated training aircraft, more reliable engines, aerodynamic modifications to reduce landing speeds lower speed handling and improve ejection seats. Also it was not a true fighter more a interceptor design with supersonic USAF high flying nuclear bomders in mind.

@@kevinyaucheekin1319 You failed to mention the biggest problem with early MiG-21... so its clear that you have very limited knowledge about the topic...

@@Bialy_1 Enlighten me please. Accept my understanding is limited.

@@Bialy_1 It's been reported at least in the service of FAF that the original MiG-21 became unbalanced with the fuel tanks filled to the brim. At least FAF took off their MiGs with not full tanks, which unfortunately made the range of the original MiG-21 even shorter than it already was. The later MiG-21bis had larger fuel tanks and the aerodynamic balance was at least somewhat also corrected. The safety record of the MiG-21's in FAF service was very good, probably a lot better than the MiGs had in Soviet Air Force. By comparison the SAAB Draken's in FAF use had an even better record, so of course a lot of these achievements went for the excellent mechanics and sound maintenance protocols and culture of the FAF.

A plane "buff" girl ? Heh, sorry, my english is not perfect, and I don't really understand that bit.

Buff means someone who is very pasionate about a topic

M'okay, thanks ! And we are not THAT few. I think...

Moira Kadhan not that many girls are interested in ww2 and cold war planes...

Well, I don't really know why. From WWI to the 70s, it's pretty damn interesting, in my opinion. In the air or on the ground.

Atoll was a direct copy of the Aim -9b

@@wwclay86 I think the plans where from Sweden. (Espionage, not volintery.)

@@decam5329 there's a picture of a Volkswagen bus driving thru a NATO check point with a sidewinder sticking out the back! I couldn't believe it when I saw it, did some research and it's true! Craziest thing I ever saw...

There was a sidewinder stolen by a known KGB spy and mailed to Russia!

@@wwclay86 I know this a bit late, but please say you remember where you saw this picture. This is something I'd love to see.

HEHE! I noticed it too. Hilarious.

Keijo 420 laugh of the day :)

Which is worse, being a premature baby or being cuckoo? :-)

Fug :DDDDDDD

Shut the kek up! Finnish ain't all that easy to pronounce, not while you're sober anyway. And at least he gave it a try.

SimplySquidy It almost ended in the destruction of the world no biggie.

Sarcasm ?

Where do Americans put nukes? Europe has its own nukes, we don't need American nukes.

@Freak159753 because two wrongs make a right? The Russians knew the Cubans were not trustworthy

@Freak159753 Well Cuba is much closer to the US, at least Russia didn't have many strategic targets near Turkey or Greece, which is where we had missiles stationed

Jezza would do it. In fact, he did...

Now since you asked - Yes they did, but with Swedish Draken... I heard this early -80s directly from Draken mecanics. Draken pilot manual states that if Draken goes to Flat Spin, you must eject immediately. They in Saab Industries got short letter from Finland: "You have error in your pilot manual at page nnn. Draken flat spin can be corrected by pilots manouuver. You do abc and then xyz and you are safe". Saab Industries sent quick reply "Really? How can you know". Short reply from Finland "Because Pilot Ylitalo just brought jet down safely after Flat Spin" (Sorry can't remember exact pilot name anymore) 6 months later new letter from Finland: "You have another error, actually two, in Draken piot manual. It says that there are sometimes mysterious fire disasters inside left wing and pilot should eject immediately. It should state that cause is known and is caused by generator overheating" Quick reply from Saab Industries "How can you tell that from burned down wreckage?" Short Reply from Finland: "Because our pilot did not eject immediately, as your pilot manual erroneusly suggested, but grought plane down safely and we could put down the fire and examined what had happened." Reply from Saab industries: "And the pilot must have been Mr Ylitalo from Rovaniemi Air Base Heh?" Short reply from Finland: "Same guy, yes" Do you know, funniest part of this story is that it has really happened, and it was very same iceman who saved 2 Drakens even Pilot manual suggested to eject immediately. Guy worth his salary in my opinion.

Yes they did. Finnish pilots did use all of the usable envelope, which was restricted for Soviet pilots. Ie alfa.

Maybe some exceptional individuals step up because during Continuation war and cold war era we had very limited resources in FAF. Actually I saw that kind of 'debriefing' only few times. Fighter pilot brains need to be kept in good shape if you want to survive in fight against aenemy with bigger numbers. But there was one strange exception :-) I witnessed wiith my own eyes early -80's one test pilot doing free 'hammer testing' of old Mig-21F (that silver one) that was already running out of its serrvice hours. I quarantee he was sober when he took off to blue sky, but after returning from test flight, he barely could get down from cockpit with his own feets. We were wondering was he drunk (I mean totally wasted drunk). No he wasn't, we understood that after we checked G-force log! I can tell that human body can take more G:s than textbooks says :-) As kudos for Mig-21F it also almost survived that treatment - except wings. That plane never ever returned to flight after that. It would be interesting to know has anybody else in the world managed to destroy that model by just manouvering it with high speed (and returned back home alive).

Apparently the pilot who corrected the flat spin and took down the plane with the burning generator was was Veli Taka

cs sc Finns are not Scandinavian, but Nordic. They’re easy to get confused, but Scandinavia is Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Iceland. The Nordics are those nations plus Finland and (very loosely) Estonia.

To KZfaq it is, it's probably why they demonized a completely historical video. KZfaq is losing it.

The AI would have picked it up & he would have been sent to the gulag again

Ben Winter Looool!

KZfaq analyses all the speech on videos. They pretty much demonitize and possibly ban videos that show or show swastikas. Germany bans all videos on youtube that show, and maybe even say it. Blame them, not Bismack.

I thought he was referring to the symbol that represents the artist formerly known as Prince.

they couldn't have, the amount of radiation they'd have received wouldn't have been nearly enough to cause a radiation burn, let alone cancer. They would have been exposed though to all kind of carcinogenic substances during their years of operating the aircraft, ranging from hydraulics fluids, hypergolic fuels (for weapons, starters, etc.), asbestos (even in their face masks, gloves, fire proof suits, etc.) and many others.

CaptainDuckman I'm talking about pilots in general, civilian pilots and flight attendants have higher cancer chances. Neither of them spend much or any time messing around with carcinogens. Perhaps military pilots have a higher chance than civilian pilots due to the things you mentioned though.

@@Internetzspacezshipz Could it be that airline pilots a stewardesses have higher cancer rates because of rarer atmosphere at higher altitudes? Some nuclear particles get stopped by air, others don't.

AFAIK they reverse engineered a Taiwanese sidewinder that failed to detonate and got lodged in a Chinese Mig-17

This is true.

hmm, supposedly it was a North Korean Mig-15 that got an American AIM-9 lodged in its tail during the Korean war...

STOLEN DRAWINGS

Sekrit dokumints

you also had spits vs spits

Not that crazy, when you think about it. They were a new nation being formed after the collapse of war machine. It made a lot of sense for them to get whatever military equipment they could, and the fall of Nazism lead to all sorts of quality goods on the market. I do agree that it was a little ironic, though!

When?

Kayraaa2 Not as peculiar as Finland during WWII. Finland had several different planes from many different countries, German, British, American, French etc. and even some Soviet planes taken as war booty... Finland was also the only country where German soldiers had to salute the Jewish officers when they outranked them.

The S-199 was a Czech built fighter from after the war, but yes it's literally just a Bf109G-6 with a different engine. IIRC the Israelis used Kar98ks sent from Yugoslavia or other Eastern European nations that had been captured from the Nazis during the war.

TraMaChi there was no invite to Nato... Our minister just decided that its not a wice decicion to join Nato... if we were to join Nato; Russia would probably send subs right to our border to watch what we are doing... you know how Putin is :(

Blah b LOL! Like the Western Allies with Stalin?

swedish equipment is all NATO standard- NONE is russian

Finland became a buffer state... Stalin decided that it was to costly to invade and instead let the Finns have a western system with a catch, Finland was to be surservient to the interest of the URSS in defense matters. So Finland was spared a comunist gob put has to buy soviet stuff and stay away from NATO... Yugoeslavia was the same.... Tito was a communist but a independent minded one. So invading Yugoeslavia to force into the Warsaw Pact discipline was to costly... and west was in good terms with him. So they let them become neutral. And a buffer between Italy and the Warsaw Pact. Same with Austria.

Finland eventually got AK 47s (improved Valmet M 62 and 76) T 55s T 72 and Mig 21s and Buk missiles. But also Drakens and F 18s.

Tamás Polgár any idea how Hungary keeps them flying? Where do you guys get your spare parts for the jets?

Were the IL-28 and TU-16 equipped for land targets or anti-ship/Submarine duty?

Indonesia have TU-16KS-1 and IL-28 TU-16KS-1 For anti Ship and Surface warfare Indonesian AirForce have standart IL-28 while the Indonesian Navy have IL-28T (Torpedo Bombers) and IL-28U (Training)

After-the-Tu-16-was-retired-from-Soviet-service-in-favor-of-faster-strike-aircraft-like-the-Su-24-Fencer, China upgraded the Tu-16 to make the H-6 as proof of its skill in upgrading legacy Soviet equipment.

Luke da duke beckneared

Is that a racial Slur? (JK)

Luke da duke ii

Fabulous.

You wait until I have a proper mullet!

tangosix.rs/2015/02/11/istorija-domace-upotrebe-lovca-presretaca-mig-21/

Bismarck ist saying Finland got Migs first outside Sovyet Union. Obviously Yugoslavia got them before so his statement is wrong. I am also providing source for my claim. But thank you for your insightful response. I am sure whoever reads it will appriciete it.

For Finland (going by Jyrki Laukkanen: Mig-21 in Finnish Air Force) the timeline was as follows: October 1961: Note Crisis. USSR proposes military consultation in response to the threat posed by Western Germany November 1961: Finnish President Urho Kekkonen travels to Novosibirsk and manages to dissuade USSR from military consultation. Foundation for the fighter purchase laid down. January 1962: Finnish delegation travels to Moscow, where they are offered the new Mig-21. February 1st 1962: Contract is signed for the purchase of 20 Mig-21F-13 fighters and 4 Mig-15UTI trainers. May 10th 1962: Contract is signed for the personnel training in USSR. July 30th 1962: Training delegation departs. August 3rd 1962: Pilot training starts in Lugovaya, Kazakhstan. November 10th 1962: 4 Mig-15UTI trainers are delivered by Soviet pilots to Rissala Air Base. Finland November 28th 1962: Pilot training ends. April 24th 1963: The first 10 Mig-21F-13 are delivered by Soviet pilots to RIssala Air Base, Finland May 9th 1963: The first flight of Mig-21F-13 in Finland. November 1963: The final batch of Mig-21F-13s are delivered to Finland.

Yugoslavia was as close to the Warsaw Pact as you could be without being part of it; a socialist state in Europe during cold war with a socialist dictator as a leader. Still, not really allied with either east or west. That way it was like Finland. Except Finland was a democracy with freedom of speech and good terms with west. So selling MiG:s to Finland was way riskier than selling them to Yugoslavia. But it does seem to be that in the strict sense, you are right, Yugoslavia was first non-Warsaw Pact country to get them. In looser terms, Finland was the first democratic country to operate them, outside the the communist bloc.

Джон Скрельник Oh so Yugoslavia did have democratic elections and multiple political parties? No wait, they didn't, all opposition was illegal and the power was given to Tito, that sounds awfully familiar... kind of like ALL THE DICTATORS IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

Will there be something about Finnish land forces and their 95% Soviet/Warsaw Pact equipment with almost lack of western counterpart vehicles at all?

Romeo Laurentiu haven't they been replaced by Portuguese F16s or are you guys using both aircraft?

Romeo Laurentiu Oh, really? Ask a Mig-21pilot how well can he see anyone coming at him from behind. The IAF downed so many of them til they lost the count...

Probably the best aircraft Mig build..

@@kadar51 The Mig 23 was even worse. But 2 and 3 Gen fighters had poor rearward visibility... look at the Mirage, F 104, F 8, F 4... Bubble canoply came back in the 4 gen fighters.

You are right about that. The Finnish Aviation Museum does have a page in Finnish and in English for that MiG-21BIS with fuselage number MG-135: www.ilmailumuseot.fi/tuotteet.html?id=20738/264013

You are correct. That is later model called Mig 21 Bis which was delivered to Finnish Air Force late 70's. I'm not familiar with Bismarks story, but I quess he is referring Mig 21F which was bit smaller and always silver color opposite to green brown camoflage painted as all Bis models were. Mig 21F models were delivered in -60's How do I know the difference? I have made daily- and between flights cockpit check ups for Bis models propably for this exact one also. At least I remember performing checks early -80's on exactly that MG-130 found nowdays in Sight seeing terrace of verkkokauppa.com in Helsinki. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iLqoe9R4v6ewc2Q.html BTW. My favourite was always MG-124.

Correct !!! That's a MiG-21 bis, NOT the earlier model.!!!

IIRC the F13 had a single piece canopy that tilted forward. Newer variants such as MF and Bis had a two piece with forward windshield piece that was fixed and the overhead piece that tilted to a side.

@@spavatch the 21F-13 also didn’t have the double barreled 23 gun on the bottom seen in this video, rather a single 30mm with the barrel on the side of the nose, as well as had a more tapered nose and smaller shock cone.

Really, he always sounded really young to me. Maybe its because there are a lot of germans in the UK

And Chinese. And lots more. It's an interesting city.

With research skills and access to the internet, (plus some multi language competence), a snot nose 10-year old can be an authority on most any topic. Feldon's stubble is a feeble attempt to appear older I think. He's a worthy source of very interesting aviation history, in any case, we can agree on that, aye?

I agree, the pointed nose and stubby wings make him attractive.

@@itmooh and the forest camo makes it perfect

SkyHopp Yeah I know, been trying to avoid saying 'aircrafts' for a long time. Somehow I failed to fix it thus far.

Oh, so one can only talk about a single aircraft at a time? :P

From-1945-to-1990, Poland was part of the Soviet Union, so it made use of license-built Soviet hardware such as automatic rifles and light machine guns that were converted in 1999 to use Western 5.56mm cartridges in line with NATO membership.

well I know it

lmao

You can say many things about the Soviets, but they where quite shrewd when they needed to be.

And the US sold F-14 Tomcats to Iran. At the time they had listening posts along the Soviet border. So the CIA supported the dictator and helped suppress democracy. And as usual, it created 'blowback'.

Mark Slater Finland did use saab drakens, in fact draken 35 and migs served same time in finnish airforce.

Mufasa Muffi he hates Poles ;)

Arcadie Condurachi; If ,or when? With Putin things can change fast.

Arcadie Condurachi that legit is the reason why they use AK-Style rifles

Galil DLC????

The Galil is based on the Finnish RK-62, which in turn is based on the AK-47 operating principle, but is a much more accurate weapon, overall holding significantly higher manufacturing standards. The RK-62 has been developed further. It's called the RK-95, including such features as a folding stock, rifle-grenade capability and possibilty to attach tactical sights e.g. telescopic, night-vision and infrared.

Good replies on this one.

Ally, or destroy Muscowy early, or you're gonna have a bad time. Mkay? Let me know if you happen to post it on YT though, interested to know how it pans out.

Be an ass hat, move your capital to Rovaniemi and take defensive as your first idea... just a suggestion ;) AI likes it that way

It's doesn't exists at start, you have to do some work to release it and play as it

I know. That why it has been allowed to be as broken as it is. National ideas and location pair too well with full defensive. Max attrition everywhere lol.

one of these gyro things would be nice

Indeed! But cheaper with a stand or just putting it on a stable surface while talking

PugViking; Amen preach it brother!

PugViking That is planned. Right now I am quite limited from my equipment since a lot of good stuff is expensive. As Patreon support increases, I can reequip myself with quite a few new gadgets that will help me in this regard.

I understand that quality equipment costs. But just setting a camera on a nearby barrel would have done the job in this case. I dunno. And I really want you to put the current patreon income into your vids. Like buying history books and whatnot. So prioritize that more than anything else (if I'm allowed to suggest that. :) )

Also bilateral trade was one part of deal.