😂😂😂😂😂😂

And, when you think about it, that's the only reason anyone has to be a Christian. I mean, yeah, the idea of spending an eternity in paradise with God might sound good, but it's not going to draw in a lot of people because they might think you're bullshitting them. But appeal to their primitive fears by saying that if they don't believe then the only alternative is burning in fire for eternity and you'll get them hooked. Sell them on the dilemma and then offer them the only solution, and you've got a convert. Think about it, every Christian movie out there is basically about "saving" people from Hell because it seems like every Christian movie has that scene were the troubled atheist finally repents and accepts Jesus.

I completely agree with you. It is nasty.

@MindCreatedAll Um, the thing is that he DIDN'T have to reduce himself to a human and have himself killed to change a rule he made when he could have just decreed that all sin is forgiven. There was no need for all that suffering Jesus went through unless God is a masochist.

Sunset Palms - My god says that when I die I will have to fly aeroplanes, ride motorcycles, drink beer, wine and spirits, watch movies and generally have a good time. This Christian gods sounds like an arsehole to me.

@@Trevor_Austin Yeah, I could invent a god which is way cooler than the Judeo-Christian god.

I think the correct question is: why do parents have to threaten their rebellious children with prison to try to keep them out? I think people know the answer perfectly well, but people's hatred for the God of the bible makes them blind to basics.

@@nicolas9533 Two points. How can an atheist hate god? Second:How many theist have you argued with over this? Because you will find hell is an angry last resort when their unsubstantiated claims are shown to be bad reasons for belief in a god. It's not some concerned person trying to help someone-it's someone with no better argument than "Believe what I believe or suffer".

@@lurch666 *"How can an atheist hate god?"* Like everyone else. They hate the idea of a judge, who came down at their level to tell them everyone fails at righteousness, everyone failed hard, all came short of the glory of God, therefore all are guilty. They hate the idea of a judge, who came down at their level to pay the penalty in their place, so they can have life freely ... although it is an amazing news ... They like their little darkness, because the light exposes their deeds. They think they are good because they are not murderers, rapists, and because they like puppies ... how can they be bad? They hate the idea of a judge, who came down at their level to tell them they don't realize how guilty they still are ... and that every crime has a consequence. . *"Second:How many theist have you argued with over this?"* Most people i met who claimed to be atheists are mostly ignorants (agnostics), and just repeat the same memes over and over again. As for the philosophers who claim to be atheists, you recognize their hate when you see them cutting down in half their intelligence, by ignoring any argument, sticking ad vitae eternam to their straw man. . *"Because you will find hell is an angry last resort when their unsubstantiated claims are shown to be bad reasons for belief in a god."* you see? a straw man argument ... and you won't let go of it easily. Christians are not angry at you, they are afraid for you. I know you already ignored my last argument, so i'll repeat it: A father is afraid for his rebellious son, so he tells him about the consequence of prison : to help him realize, and to help him avoid it, especially when it's free! . *"their unsubstantiated claims"* the history around that period, and Christ's deed, is the most documented and substantiated event of old history. You should read what non-believers historians have to say about it. . *"It's not some concerned person trying to help someone-it's someone with no better argument than 'Believe what I believe or suffer'."* Hey another meme! with straws! You should believe you'll suffer if you continue committing all theses crimes, because the judge exists, and prison exists, and in some countries the electric chair does exist. Imagine you are a father who faced a guilty child rapist in court, and when you come out of it, you see smart asses who preaches there is no court, there is no judge, there is no ultimate punishment ... because it would be hurting ... so it must be bad ... and all these angry believers in justice are just angry-last-resorting-you, to believe what they believe : i.e justice will come around. Just throw down all your prefabricated fallacies for a while, and try to think about it honestly. And please don't take as a reference some weird megachurch sect whose sole purpose is to make money and deceive people ...

@@nicolas9533 Funny how you should say I'm using strawmen. ""How can an atheist hate god?" Like everyone else." Your strawman #1 You say atheists must hate god but since an atheist has not been given enough evidence for any god how can he hate anything that doesn't exist. We dislike the concept of god because of people like you using it as way to get us to be as gullible as you but we don't believe it exists. Your strawman #2: ""Second:How many theist have you argued with over this?" Most people i met who claimed to be atheists are mostly ignorants (agnostics), and just repeat the same memes over and over again. " I asked how many THEISTS have you argued with. You replied with atheists because you have never debated with theists. Your strawman #3: ""Because you will find hell is an angry last resort when their unsubstantiated claims are shown to be bad reasons for belief in a god." you see? a straw man argument ... and you won't let go of it easily." Are you saying that theists DON'T threaten atheists with hell after their other arguments have failed? Because that shows you have never had this sort of argument or you would know better. ""their unsubstantiated claims" the history around that period, and Christ's deed, is the most documented and substantiated event of old history." Find me a source of history that confirms the bible stories in a way other than places. The exodus has no evidence the flood has no evidence some of the places and people might have existed but but there is no good historical evidence for the bible unless you go to theist websites. ""It's not some concerned person trying to help someone-it's someone with no better argument than 'Believe what I believe or suffer'." Hey another meme! with straws! You should believe you'll suffer if you continue committing all theses crimes, because the judge exists, and prison exists, and in some countries the electric chair does exist." You can show me judges,you can show me prisons and you can show me electric chairs. Can you show me hell? If you believe in hell then you are showing you don't believe in your god through choice you believe in it because you feel there's no other option since who wants to spend an eternity in hell? If you want to believe in a god I have no problem with that but if you say to me that because I don't believe the same as you I'm going to go to hell that's just insulting to me that you think I'm going to be afraid of something that's made up. I have a big red button here and if I press it your head will explode. If you make another post I will press it. Will you dare to post again?

@@lurch666 *"Funny how you should say I'm using strawmen."* So you know what a strawman is, nice! . *"Your strawman #1* *You say atheists must hate god but since an atheist has not been given enough evidence for any god how can he hate anything that doesn't exist.* The whole nature is evidence. All the amazing complexities we discovered points to it, you have no excuse. The existence of God is the point with the most evidence in the world. But randomness is more comfortable ... Even if mathematicians, cryptologist, programmers, and the chaos theory proved randomness doesn't exists. . *We dislike the concept of god because of people like you using it as way to get us to be as gullible as you but we don't believe it exists."* i wonder how many scientific facts you actually checked yourself instead of _'gullibally(?)'_ accepted it ... what? none? Do you even know the scientific method stand firmly and exclusively on skepticism? The scientific method is based on the fact that you can't trust scientists, so you have to verify it yourself. Gullibility is more synonym of openness. Ungullibility is being closed to hope, when the subject is not materialistic, like the judgment of your sins. . *"I asked how many THEISTS have you argued with. You replied with atheists because you have never debated with theists."* My bad, i genuinely read ATHEISTS, it made more sense in the context, because _'theists'_ is one of broadest category on the world, and nothing conclusive and interesting ... i mean you would have to put the ones who think they are their own God in it ... So it was a foreseeable mistake, no need to jump on the strawman button. . *"Your strawman #3:* *Are you saying that theists DON'T threaten atheists with hell after their other arguments have failed?* *Because that shows you have never had this sort of argument or you would know better."* How's that a straw man? And this is already answered in the previous post: when a father tells about prison to his rebellious son, it's not a treat. But i told you you wouldn't let go easily of your straws. . *"Find me a source of history that confirms the bible stories in a way other than places."* the new testament material alone covers more than 40000 pieces, in 40 different languages, over a lot of countries, over several continents, over nations who were at war with each other ... - the jews confessed of the crime in their talmud - the grec/jewish historians of the first century talked about it etc ... look at what criteria historians look at to verify the solidity of old historic claims, it will help you. . *"The exodus has no evidence"* wooo! why would there be? gertrud making bread in 1529BC too, but it happened. . *"the flood has no evidence"* the hundreds of sites of forests of petrified trees standing across multiple of geological columns, is good evidence of it. But atheists prefer to ignore that completely ... at least in all online debates i've seen so far, introducing the topic. and petrified trees stand upside-down over 100Xthousands years of geological columns is even worse for you. . *"some of the places and people might have existed but but there is no good historical evidence for the bible unless you go to theist websites."* It is too far away in time yes, but using this as an argument is a mark of desperation ... the bible is not true because we have found ruins of all cities mentioned 2000BC ... it's weird you would consider this solid ... . *"You can show me judges,you can show me prisons and you can show me electric chairs.* *Can you show me hell?"* i will let you do your own list of things you believe in without seeing it. . *"If you believe in hell then you are showing you don't believe in your god through choice you believe in it because you feel there's no other option since who wants to spend an eternity in hell?"* You do not avoid hell because you believe there is a God ... You avoid hell because you believe God paid for your fault on the cross : which makes you avoid condemnation, since the debt is paid! And yes the fear of prison/execution keeps a lot people from it. You do not put your hand in the fire because you are afraid of the burn ... and it does not mean the fire is threatening you ... it's a matter of cause and consequences ... going to hell is a matter of cause and consequences! not blackmail! How many metaphors do i have to make until you abandon this foolish strawman? . *"If you want to believe in a god I have no problem with that but if you say to me that because I don't believe the same as you..."* nope ... still a matter of cause and consequences, not believe-like-me-so-i-can-feel-better strawman. . *"I'm going to go to hell that's just insulting to me that you think I'm going to be afraid of something that's made up."* yes! telling a criminal he will go to prison is an insult! ... or not! Man, you don't even believe what you just said ... . *"I have a big red button here and if I press it your head will explode.* *If you make another post I will press it.* *Will you dare to post again?* Oh please! push all the buttons at once! - will it be a i-don't-check-translations-and-ethymology-but-i-definitely-found-a-contradiction-in-the-bible? - will it be a zeitgeist fallacy? - or will it be a strawman? i'm curious

God made religion to test your critical thinking skills

For such a loving God, he sure likes to physically and mentally harm people.

@ God made atheists. And atheists made religion to enslave man

@Vladimir Vcelar Wow that is so messed up. I'm sorry you had to endure such cruel stupidity :(

@@justifano7046 Atheists dont believe in gods of any sort so you dont get to use god as a proper noun first off. Second, your reply to me is typical nutbar bullshit to justify spreading misinformation. Lastly my point stands, you cannot argue otherwise. Come at me.

That's part of their problem - a humanity based world is literally the problem in their eyes. They want to impose "heaven on earth".

But in this case the mugger has an imaginary gun and you still crap your pants .

​​@@gamingdragon1356nobody is "crapping their pants". People just don't like being told that they deserve to burn for all eternity, regardless of whether such a thing will actually happen.

I would add that I hope I have impacted the world in a positive way

I hope I could have ridden the concept of hell from human culture as a whole. I would even give my life if it were to be the cost. Sadly as opposed to Christian thinking, one man sacrificing himself isn't going to achieve something grand, not by a long shot.

Your church charges for baptism? Wtf tell me that's a money scam!!!

Jeez... "We'll save your soul but only after you pony up $$$" sounds like par for the course of American Christianity today. Many years ago when my wife & I were having trouble conceiving, we looked into adoption through Catholic Charities. They said the average cost of adoption would be $17,000. I said, forget it, there's no way we could afford that. But you'd think for a religion which is anti-abortion and pro-adoption, they'd help people out.

@@snowrider4495 I guess I can only sort of internet-promise I'm being honest. I don't remember the specific church. It's not that hard to believe, considering how much scientologists pay for... nothing.

Religion has always been a very lucrative business

@MindCreatedAll The most difficult job on Earth is being a pastor? More difficult than being a soldier, emergency room doctor or nurse, firefighter, nursery school teacher? Come on. I think there are plenty more difficult jobs than being a pastor. Keeping up with you is one of them! 🙂

Very well said!

Love that ending question. I've never thought of asking a christian that question.

I think the reply to the “you’re driving towards a cliff” argument is- OK, suppose someone came up to you and said “LOOKOUT, you are being followed by a huge invisible hedgehog and you need to run away” or “there is a monster in your wardrobe, and every night you need to crack a raw egg on your head and say “wobble wobble wobble” otherwise he will eat you in the night.” Would you thank them for the warning, or think that they were bonkers. Well, that’s how you sound to me. There is no hedgehog, there is no monster and there is no cliff.

I get answers like "god works in mysterious ways" and "god wants you to have faith". My question is WHY would god be like that if he is all powerful? Why play games? Why not reveal himself and leave no question? And why would an all powerful being require worship? What the hell does he get from people worshipping him? And if one really truly believes this god is so capable of doing anything he wants, he or she has to admit that god is a sadistic bastard with all the pain he allows to innocent people, especially those who devote their lives to living according to his will.

@@anonamos9102 i know. Its quite sad how much Christians are willing to abide by as long as you dangle eternal paradise in front of them while also being complicit with us suffering for all of eternity because a god constructed a universe where he knew we atheists would exist. Quite fucked up and yet so normalized.

Even just for not believing in god. They could be a perfectly plesent person like me and still somehow deserve torture for all eternity. Its pretty fucked up

@MindCreatedAll Who are you trying to fool with the name change dude. New name, same bullshit. Is God omniscient? Then he knew exactly what would happen when he created humans. You worship a fictional sadistic dictator that created the system in which humans are born sinners and you expect us to be thankful. Yet somehow you rationalize in your puny little brain that an entity that created a place of eternal torture actually loves you. Not only did he created the torture place, he knows exactly who will go there. So why create humans at all? Why not just create all the heaven bound people and never let the rest of us infect the world? Your god is an absolutely inept creator. Good thing he’s fictional.

It is not about deserving. You have to understand religious mindset to truly get it 1. World is ruled by a being named X 2. What X says is right by law of X being the creator 3. If you go against the will of X you will suffer. So when religious person says you are going to hell, it is not about deserving or not, it is a statement of fact, like "hey if you build your house on this land you will get flooded" , I am not saying "you deserve to be flooded" I am saying that you will be.

@MindCreatedAll but da lawrd still does not give your your meds? seriously, provide some evidence for that god already. or, at least, make a testable claim. on an even lower level of sanity and reason, at least explain the good AND almighty problem. if even that fails, and I am sure it does, explain the late arrival of your god. thousands of human generations lived and died in pre-bible times. in other words: god let them follow false gods. god gave them 0 chance to know... god. How caring! finally, imagine a L.E. officer who gives you a ticket for the 1924 speeding of your long dead great grandpa. a mortal officer with his limited mind. would you consider him good? but 1 god (obviously the 1 that you were brainwashed to believe in) is good with his silly and infuriating concept of original sin. according to that god, the cutest baby of 2025 is already a sinner. but god is good. what gives here?

@MindCreatedAll that is a neat fairytale. I must say that the story of Jesus is a pretty good read. Actually the Hollywood movies are better. Whoever came up with the story was pretty inventive. But most of us do not need some fake god to live good lives and be beneficial to our fellow man. And what your god considers sinful behavior is just plain stupid.

A point that they didn't talk about is that they are saying that with a feeling of superiority. No one likes being condescended to, especially by someone who's unable to question their own beliefs. It's aggravating to see them attempt to smugly gaze down from their imaginary ivory tower and condemn others.

Yes, and that's the attitude I see in Christians when they do that. It's not, "I'm concerned for your eternal soul and don't want you to fall into an eternity of suffering," but more like, "I can't wait to be sitting at the right hand of God and laughing as I look down and see you burning in Hell!"

@MindCreatedAll "There are no words to describe the horror of hell....." NEPPY, you are finally talking sense. Of course there are no words to describe the horror of hell because it doesn't exist!

@MindCreatedAll "There are no words to describe the horror of hell." Sure sounds like a thing that shouldn't exist then, if someone with the power to remove it existed. I mean, if my basement was full of spinning blades whose only purpose was to cut up anyone who went down there, I'd be kind of an ass for just leaving it like that and not...you know, taking apart the ridiculous blade-trap in my basement. I'd be upgraded from 'kind of an ass' to 'a horrible, monstrous sociopath' if anyone was _actively_ stuck in my basement being cut up and I _still_ didn't take it apart.

@MindCreatedAll That's a "No True Scotsman" fallacy because the people who say that we're going to hell think that they're the true christians. Try again, please.

But the book says you choose it, so I don't have to feel guilty. - Average Christian.

I used that all the time until someone told me recently: Yes...of course you deserve to go to hell and be tortured forever. You are an atheist! Was a client I had worked with for quite some time at this point. Not working with him anymore

@@derwolf9670 why tap dance the claim is everyone is deserving of hell, that's the point of the redeemer. Jesus. The penalty of sin is death.

@@meterojinn the penalty for almost everything is death

They do think that, they just don't want to say it.

You should tell your daughter to stop being offended by everything .

@Elio I heard that too when I was in fourth Grade and then multiple times through books but we'll I didn't complain because I knew it was a myth .

I am standing on platform 9¾ you mean the train isn't coming?

Joel Osteen has sold a lot of tickets. 🤣

Great, everyone now knows that youre smart

@@seapot9675 More of a smart ass, but either way. :)

Wow a sensible response from an atheist . That is surprising .

I really don't feel that christians say bless you because they actually wish you well. I feel that they do it to openly show everyone how good and righteous with their dirty they are. So that everyone in the community can see them and reap the associated benefits of being a good christian in the bible belt. But I admit that in other places, it may not have the same appearance as it does here.

"christians" are so good at hating and not following jeezaz teachings

IF Jesus was real he would have been an Arab Jew.

@@1madmaxx80 And?

Speaking from experience, indoctrination is so powerful in creating and maintaining the idea and fear of hell. Once people stop drilling this nonsense into a developing child's brain, all religion will be correctly labelled as mythology, same way we look today at the old Greek and Roman gods.

Problem being 1 you can prove false. The other you can't.

@@alext7074 Again you know nothing and talk like someone indoctrined by internet atheism .

I get angry by it because it is a hostile and judgmental statement. They are telling you to your face that they want you to be punished in eternal fire. Such threats need to be reported to the police and prosecution taken up.

Michael Finley it is. Very.

Ray Thackeray punished. For not being able to believe something!

@@dfadden62 As an atheist I believe in many things that are provable. I believe that I have to pay my taxes (because there are penalties that are easily verified if I don't). I believe Black Forest Gateau is delicious (because I have verified that with my own cake-hole). But I do not believe in a floaty invisible imaginary beardy guy in the sky (because that's just... daffy).

It's an act of terrorism and should be prosecuted.

@MindCreatedAll God who?

@MindCreatedAll why would an all knowing and all powerful being be mad at anything people get mad at things they cant control or understand but a god doesnt have that issue. Also when u consider thats jesus torment was temporary and people who go to gell is forever his sacrifice isnt that powerful.

@MindCreatedAll you don't have an explanation, Neppy. You just have undemonstrated claims and fallacious arguments. Stop commentong, Neppy. You will never convince rational thinkers with those. Only reasonable, testable and falsifiable evidence could convince us, Neppy. Since you, Neppy, never present anything remotely like that, stop wasting your and our time.

@MindCreatedAll Explanation and answers for what? Why the need for any explanations and answers? For what purpose? These are genuine enquiries so don't come back with a belittling rant please.

@MindCreatedAll facts do indeed cut it, so let's lay some down. At the end of the day, the Bible is a story; words on a page. Claims about prior events. Until those events can be corroborated by outside evidence, they remain just that, claims, since the Bible can't be both claim and evidence for/of itself. Given that the Bible makes claims that run counter to how we understand the universe works, it is prudent to dismiss those claims until some evidence can be provided of their truth and correctness. Can you, without resorting to 'mysterious ways' type arguments, provide any evidence that the miraculous claims of the Bible are true? Atheists 'parade' their ignorance only in the sense that we are willing to admit that we don't know is sometimes the honest and correct response to a question. If I don't know the answer, saying that I don't know the answer is correct, as it can then be followed up with 'so let's find out.' By asserting that you already have an answer, God, you are precluding that follow-up, choosing to rely on faith rather than knowledge. If God does indeed exist, and we are as he made us, then he made me with the kind of skeptical mind that would fundamentally reject him on faith alone. And given that science has now developed working models that can sufficiently explain universal origin, planet formation, origin of life, and diversity of life that are accordant with reality, no God required, it's time that God stepped up and gave us something more than vauge claims to demonstrate his existence. Rather funny and telling that as our ability to make accurate recordings of past events improves, the number of God interventions and miracles dropped in equal inverse proportions. In short, you say facts cut it. Provide some on the side of your God. Not personal testimonies, not biblical quotes, not already debunked logical fallacious arguments. Facts, with measurable and verifiable data pointing to God, who if he exists, has nothing to fear from honest scrutiny. I'll wait.

"...by the fire". I also like to say :"Well, some like it hot."

Killing

@@yasmine4945 all killing? Even self defense?

Josh Nyberg not self defense, but idiots like serial killers, and the people who thought it was a good idea to start slavery, and concentration camps I don’t think they would deserve it for like ALL eternity tho

@@darthsombra2102 Just because you know tsundere memes does not mean your cool. Dont think that I like the way you swooped in with that baka. Definitely dont get any wierd ideas.

If more people showed compassion and empathy towards theists we might convince more of them that atheism is a good alternative to their beliefs.

Nope, someone thinks I deserve to burn in hell they are an asshole. I don’t ask for sympathy for having been an asshole when I was a believer, I feel sympathy for the people I inflicted it on.

@@mekelreen9869 It is a man made disease of our minds. Having lived that I would think you would be fully understanding. You even state that you did the things that you claim to be angry about. You call them an asshole but that would make you one as well.. hate the idea or the opinion, not the person.

Dylan Jones “hate the sin, love the sinner” garbage, if they were willing to see the truth in their beliefs and of their actions I would have sympathy but they aren’t. Their actions produce harm, the Christian kids camp that was teaching them to overthrow American democracy with a theocracy that would behead non-christian men and do unspoken things to the women according to biblical teachings. Or the gay conversion camps that locked teenagers naked in cold barren rooms without food, light or human interaction for stretch’s up to a week. And that isn’t even the tip of that iceberg.

@@mekelreen9869 You were one.. and those extremists types should be hated but we're talking about people who blindly believe like you once did.. not the extremists.

And the music will be the best.

Nailed it

Plus there's also the fear factor. Fear of Hell is really the only recruiting tool they have. If they only had "you get to live with God forever" that might bring in a few recruits, but tell them the only alternative is an eternity of torment & pain, and that will literally scare up a few converts. The problem is that they think that everyone believes in Hell like they do, but the only people who actually believe in Hell are already Christians.

I've asked theists before that if I had a red button that if I pressed it their head would explode would they be afraid. They always say something like 'I don't fear something stupid like that or even that their god would protect them' completely missing the point.

@MindCreatedAll Well, of course no atheist can/would say that as they don't believe heaven exists, do they? Come on. 🤔 It may well do exist, but how do we know for sure? Do we just take it on faith and hope we are right? Follow Pascal's wager? Difficult to pretend/try to believe in something you don't just in case. What would you say/suggest?

@MindCreatedAll So you would believe my threat? Boy you theists are gullible (who would have guessed?).

If you belive in allah you will get 72 virgins with big breasts .

Then when you face the judge.. Will you still be laughing??

Yeah, I remember how bent out of shape he'd get whenever someone suggested he was going to Hell. It was kind of funny to watch him go off.

shonkee gogo another reason religion is so dangerous. Christians and Muslims have this ultimate showdown planned. It’s completely fake but unfortunately the self-fulfilling prophecy is not. You won’t be happy until there is worldwide destruction and you’ll say it was foretold.

@@redeemedone8553 Sorry - just joking - I'm taking a time out from debates - just did a 5 day youtube comment debate with a muslim re: objective morality (I'm pooped) Please keep calm and continue

Agreed. That’s one of the harms religion does to people.

@Me Smith I understand this but it really offends me deeply! It is the sheer self rigghteous knowledge that they are somehow privileged above me with some kind of knowledge my limited brain can't fathom!! It makes me feels sad! I'm actually celebrating being alive because this is the one shot I have guaranteed!

Well different hell different man in the sky

The shows are meant to be different in that way, and the hosts acknowledge it. Like Eric said in this episode, some times it takes both kinds of responses. Some people respond better in harsher environments. Sometimes it actually encourages people to call in who wouldn't otherwise, and the same can be said about the gentler approach. I really appreciate both shows for what they do!

Because matt dillahunty is just a fraud .

@@gamingdragon1356 how so?

@@matti550 he just wants to create a scene rather than actually have a conversation . Anyway you are entitled to your own opinion .

@@gamingdragon1356 I'm not going to completely disagree with you. But also I think he just try's to distroy his oppsition and allow them no way to save face rather than talking constructively with them and change their views.

As an atheist, I'd like to believe that reincarnation is a good side of death.