Adam K lol

talking about range issues and calculating the range by the actual power usage.

new FF series are not about cars so it doesn't matter.

Maybe switches to hook up emergency battery supplies.

Adam K Exactly. And not to mention unrealistic gear shifts. The cars they use must have 50 speed transmissions./s

I... Honestly I have to agree!

Maybe having formula racing could be little benefit for EV company, because the huge amount of cost for research but lower impact they still need to focus on essentials like production scalability, lowering battery cost and increasing range or capacity, rather than branding, the demand is higher than their production capacity right now Compared to ICE car, EV has different components, means there is no industry best practice, they still need lot of research on optimizing thing, create production method by themself, to increase production output Meanwhile EV is gifted with that high rpm feature, they did not lack in speed or performance, thus branding is not their priority concern right now some EV manufacturer like lucid air and tesla race their consumer car on laguna seca, that 1:30 lap time that normally can only be achieved by an ICE super car like mclaren P1, that is proof that they dont even dont need much effort on branding,

@Allen Loser I think everyone knows that. I do at least, I've been watching since the first race. More power =innovation, ingenuity, greater speeds, more fans, more money and faster development. It's good for the sport.

@@flmworks Thank you for your input and thoughtful, detailed reply. You make a compelling argument, though I respectfully disagree with your assertion that there is little benefit and little application. Disc brakes, active suspension, sequential gearbox, aerodynamics, steering wheel functions, engine mapping, kinetic energy recovery, crash crumple zones, automobile sensors, active computing and data processing (software adapted from F1 for use in ambulances and hospitals to predict heart attacks), tire research, Kevlar research, carbon fibre weaves, carbotanium, materials sciences (information which is supplied to aeronautics industry and NASA), engines and how to get the most out of them, turbos connected by shaft to both recover energy and use energy off throttle for instantaneous power without lag... This list goes on for a long, long time and I've barely scratched the surface. The point I would like to drive home is that experimentation leads to invention and innovation. It's a worthwhile investment because if just ONE invention or innovation has application somewhere else in the world, it creates new revenue, new industry and improves the world. I believe that Formula E is in its infancy right now, I also believe that the concept of it is being mismanaged -it's not sexy, exciting, mind blowing and it doesn't make people nearly as excited as they could be... And that's because there really isn't a reason to get excited. What you find in Formula E, you can find in a road car... What if that wasn't the case? What if Formula E had rules that attracted manufacturers, inventors, innovators, investors, the world's greatest drivers? What if a Formula E Grand Prix ran the same distance as Formula 1 -but the cars were twice as fast? How many people would want to watch that? How many NEW things would be invented along the road to get to that point? When Formula E is faster than Formula 1 and can run just as long and just as reliably, road cars will improve. What we have in the world today, the best EV's have nothing on what the future holds. Imagine a 10% improvement in every area of development.... That's not just 10% better, that's a quantum leap forward because it's in every category of design and engineering, every single part is 10% better and this will have massive impacts on improving production, efficiency, handling, suspension, weight, heat management, etc. I get that electric cars are really, really fast and they're quite honestly cool as hell -but they're nowhere near to achieving their full potential. They're in their infancy -so are batteries, so are motors and so is charging and efficiency. So I think Formula E needs a massive amount of funding and marketing, it needs to work shoulder to shoulder with scientists and manufacturing so that things which haven't even been dreamt of yet can become reality... I remember what cell phones were like before the first true smart phone was introduced by Steve Jobs, the Apple iPhone... The many inventions and innovations, creative application of existing technology and minor improvements along with a hell of a lot of forethought and imagination and quite honestly, the technological visionary intuition of Steve Jobs (who was basically a prophet of technology) has changed the world forever. Look at the internet and how that has grown and become a dominant force not only in the day to day lives of nearly everyone in the developed world, but it massively contributes to the GDP of countries. When it first started, it was for nerds. It was very slow, it literally connected only two computers. Now look at it. I could go on all day about why innovation is so important, but in terms of Formula E: in order to succeed as a sport, it needs to become a crazy place full of brilliant, crazy people who make and innovate new things; a place where inventions are dreamt of and tested and innovated, a place with a wide open rule book where those who dare, win. They have an opportunity to radically change the future... Only they're not doing that because their rules are choking the sport to death. Let them cheat!!

@Viscous Shear lmao!! Exactly!!!

If your motor is an induction or bldc one, it shouldn't heat up at low speeds like that. Maybe it's a common dc motor.

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat I have no idea but I still have the bike and it has over 10,000 miles on it now.

​@@Patrick94GSR Commonly, if it's two wires and you power it by a battery and a very simple controller, then it's a brushed DC motor.

@@concorde837 The BBS02 (and BBSHD) mid-drive e-bike motors are in fact, brushless motors.

aullik. Your gratitude is equal to my disgust.

When making video's it seems like it'd be simple to say one thing, then have the conversion text overlay making it relate-able to a wider audience. Not sure why video makers just don't throw that in.

Max R why are you disgusted by it?

The persistent use of crappy imperial is the reason why american are scientifically illiterate compared to the rest of the civilized world. They are confused and simply can't compare, understand and are lost when reading scientific and technical articles. Can't even read a map or compare price per unit in the supermarket.

@@MR-nl8xr Did you know that electricity is only measured with SI? Coulombs, Watts, Joules, Volts, Amperes, Farads are all metric.

FIA Formula E Championship Loosen up the regulations already. Allow for much more Wh of storage, your batteries are a joke. I wanna see half meter in diameter rotors and four wheel burnouts at 300 kph.

Not the place to stage complaints.

ABB Formula E I've greatly enjoyed the series. Thank you for helping to push the technology. We need racing for the innovation & to break things for the good of progress.

Approved

OK boomer

I made a video on this! :) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jN12eNx9xLCucYU.html

Engineering Explained i thought you did, ahh i will rewatch it✌🏽

The ability to combust fossil fuels is insignificant compared to the power of the Electromagnetic Force.

The force on the piston is due to an explosion, transforming chemical energy into mechanical energy, and not electromagnetic force

If the electric motor does not get full power right away, but gradually accelerated . is it still full torque from the very beginning or do you have to floor it for full torque? I have a rc car with a electronic speed controller and when i barely press the radio it barely has any force...couldn't that be applied to electric cars so they can use transmissions?

Skøut no it's still noisy. Think jet noises.

Mustafa Hasan not really its just the sound of the tires and cars moving through the air

Nah, electric motors are still louder than wind noise. Search for Formula E sound on YT.

no the motors make sound, watch Formular E videos.

Manuel Fischer it's actually the gearbox that make all that noise but yeah they sound cool. 😊

I don't think it's necessary for towing, but i also think that a second gear with a decent gap, could drastically enhance the range of EVs at highway speeds.

+u9Nails appreciate the kind words, thank you!

o0bananaman0o haha, yes except for the electric part.

usually people who love working on their own car loves when it has more stuff to fix.... just look at Land Rover owners...

Anyone who owns a TESLA will love that you do not have to take your car to the shop and leave it for a few days for any minor repair. Tesla Rangers will come to your home or business and do the repair where the car sits. They can repair 90% of any issue without needing to go to the shop. If you do need the car to go to the shop, TESLA puts you in the newest/best car they have on the market, as a loaner while they fix your car. Elon wants the loaner to be better than the car they are fixing.

Some EVs (like the BMW i3) go have simple clutches to disengage the motor from the drivetrain when a sudden shock is detected to prevent damage. So whenever I go over the crest of a hill at high speed in the i3 and get some air the computer engages a clutch and the motor is isolated from axle. If you are not prepared for it it can be a bit shocking because you obviously lose regen braking at the same time since the motor isn't connected. So after it contacts the ground again the car freewheels like it's in neutral for about a second and then the computer reconnects the motor. There was an issue also when the rear wheels of the i3 were off the ground... and accelerator depressed fully the wheels would speed up to very high rpm in that fraction of a second with the lack of resistance and when the wheels hit the ground suddenly slow... A few of my fellow "enthusiastic" i3 drivers had the motor mounting bolts loosen due to the repeated shocks and that had to be fixed in a recall by getting the clutch to disengage earlier.

How much does a repair cost thought? Or are they kind of doing it complementary for being a part of the new generation so to speak.

Thanks, and thanks for sharing!

I think you could have pointed out better one aspect that is in my opinion the key difference for gearing between electrical and combustion engines. A combustion engine might at best have a wide flat range of torque so you have at best more or less linear increasing power. An electrical engine on the other hand has almost constant power curve over the whole range and a corresponding degressive torque curve which is theoretically infinite at the start. The torque is more or less proportional to the current which needs to be limited and is limiting the torque therefore. Mostly only for that reason the full power is not there instantly and once the torque is not limited anymore the power curve is becoming flat even without a power limitation. And the maximum current is more or less proportional to the engine size and therefore weight. So having torque at low rpm is essentially a trade-off between engine weight and transmission weight (usually favoring a slightly bigger engine and passing on the multiple gear transmission). I am sure that is what you meant, but I think it might not have become clear to everyone watching the video.

For racing, Hybrids is the way to go. Getting the best of both worlds!

Even as an engineer I have to say, I watch racing mainly because of the racing. The engineering is also nice, but the fun part is racing. And my answer was like that, because he said, that electric cars are outperforming petrol cars and my opinion on that is, that this will never happen in racing. Maybe on the streets but an electric car will never beat a f1 car over a normal race distance!

Yes thats true ofc. But with batteries I dont see it happening.

I am talking about racing? FE is not even remotely close to F1.

KOrbiid By design. FE is designed to be slower than F1. You can't just kill your main product. What they should do is allow electric cars in F1.

great question

Is more work being done at higher rpm? Where? How much?

No, the same load is being driven by the same motor. The only difference is an increase in amperage for more torque and a decreased voltage for less speed. However it may be easier if I say the wattage, the total measure of electric power, remains the same.

ll.., l.

@@whatitis5646 Amp hour does determine power usage o a lower rpm does conserve battery usage.

If lower KE motors have more turns then why are they relatively cheaper?does the wire gauge decrease?

Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!

Sounds like you over-saturated the coils. You hit a point where throwing more electricity at a motor just produces heat, not power. You should be careful, heat can destroy a electric motor fast. Excess heat will demagnetize the rare earth magnets in the motor.

Diego Amado XD ikr

We use mph in England 😜

Oh right, I forgot you still use imperial for distances and speeds (and a few other things I think?). The majority of the world does use metric though.

The proper SI unit for speed is m/s, but you can then convert either to km/h or mph for the layman.

SteelSkin667 well that’s made of two si units second and metre it’s not a si unit it’s self

Chaotic-Good Antinormie CVT has big losses and whole point of cvt is to keep the engine at constant power/engine speed at peak efficiecy to neglect own loses. Electric motor by design make constant power over most of their rew range. Simplest reduction gear is most efficient way to trade frequency for torque.

A transmission has a efficiency of around 85-95%, depending on the rev. So in you can save 30% power during acceleration for about 30 seconds, but loose 5-15% during crusing for the next 10 min you are way worse off with a transmission

matthew clark the concept one is not a true production car....doesn't meet the sales volume to be classified as one.

Yes so technically the fastest production car today would be the Tesla model s

Christian Thompson not true...what's its top speed vs Porsche

But Tesla P100D is quicker than Rimac 1 from 0-60 mph because of one gear.

Tesla is fastest accelerating production car in market. It doesn't have highest top speed though due to software limited top speed. Mostly because batteries overheating so Tesla has to reduce speed down. Roadster might be able to go on high speeds if Tesla will fix overheating issue

Love it, thanks for subscribing!

Well, you've certainly got the ideas down! The biggest problem is cost, and complexity, not the theory behind it. It's a given that a motor performing more work will consume more power, gasoline or not. An electric motor has more spots where it can remain efficient compared to a petrol motor, but of course running it at maximum power will use the maximum power it is capable of using. Kind of how maximum brightness on a phone eats up a bit more than turning it down. Not by too much, but still a percentage. Of course, ultimately in these independent lab scenarios, weight and complexity bring up more and more questions about how we could go about new technologies to further improve the electric motors. I say we are still in the infancy of what kinds of new technology/innovations are available to us, but perhaps we'll have another "Roaring 20s" of our own after coronavirus!!

Electric motors do not really use more energy in high rpm. The power consumption is because of the load on the motor, not the speed of the motor. If you step down the rpm via gears, the load or force on the motor increases, increasing the power consumption greatly. Since it is efficient in all rpm, this would have no benefits. Electric motors can stick,slip and melt at low rpm, so it may even be less efficient or dangerous.

@@zazethe6553 Electric motors are more efficient at higher RPMs in some tables.

not really, as you only use power to get the engine to certain rpm (a lot of work), then to keep it at that rpm (not too much work), this is why cars are economic when they keep the speed but consume much more fuel when accelerating. Most of energy is used to spin the wheels, not the motor and to lauch a car in specified direction, not to spin the engine itself, so it won't have any great impact on range.

I agree. Most modern electric motors run on 3 phase alternating current with a frequentcy converter, and i was thaught that when the frequenty increases (aka let the motor spin faster) the inpendance also increases therefore losing efficiency. So if there is a gearbox the engine can rev lower and have less internal resistance.

@@Sjef0194517 But if the internal Resistance is higher less Power is transferred, because less current is Running in the Motor.

The main reason to have a gearbox on a electric motor is to accelerate faster and to climb hills easier. When a electric motor gets bogged down (like on a steep uphill climb) it can heat up very fast and destroy itself. Not to mention it's much less efficient running at low rpm with high load. Better to use a gear ratio to turn it into high rpm and low load.

Porsche seems to agree with you

That's the questions we need to ask

anytime you convert power through differential gearing, theres a power loss. Combined with the added weight that a transmission adds and you lose any efficiency you would have gained.

" Cars such as those also start to experience a loss of available torque at speeds of +50 mph which makes overtaking awkward." It is not about the loss of torque but a loss of available power.

Tesla Model S and X can achieve 155 mph... how much faster would you like to go in an off the shelf vehicle? For racing applications it is totally different.

Speed isn't the factor... only torque. Electric motors have instant torque and depending on the size of the motor and gear ratio determines torque.

For emergency situations. And depending on the state of battery charge (completely full or completely discharged), the regenerative braking might not work at all.

Expect to see a brake-less electric car soon.

Surely it is wrong. Decelerating at grip level from high speeds needs much more power dissipating(recuperating) than regular electric motor can provide.

Exactly

Tiago Ferreira Doesn't mean they are right. They could have just used a larger motor with the same weight as the gear box.

difflocktwo they aren't right. But they have the fastest car in the world.... why?

Yes because they want an extremely high top speed.

You don't even need to post this.

Electric cars you can buy normally use a CVT. So the power usage is lowest whilst still providing enough power.

Again, it's not necessarily worth the efficiency losses that go into adding a geared transmission. Also adds weight and complexity. Electric motors are efficient across a wide range of RPM, so adding gears could potentially mean reducing efficiency.

IIGrayfoxII What EV has a CVT?

With a synchronous motor the efficency doesn't change as much with rpm as a combustion engine does. So the efficency gain with more gears is not as big as the gain on combustion engines. But it makes the car heavier, which decreases the efficency, which smallers the gain even more. And of course it costs more, and the price is beside the range one of the biggest problems for electric cars at the moment.

you mean like tesla?

Electric motors last, generally, far longer than ICE for a simple reason. The only part that wears out is the bearing that allows the rotor to stay in place. Depending on the quality, it can easily last over 1 million km. What will wear out way before that will be the transmission.

I think once they can figure out a battery tech that can survive far more charge/discharge cycles and maintain a good power density than current lithium/lead acid batteries we will see a HUGE EV explosion. But until then dinosaur powered cars will stay the king.

Magnets do wear out with extreme heat, nothing that liquid cooling cant solve...but only dc motors use them , ac motors dont need magnets, they are basically opposed pulsing electromagnets..

Jordan Anderson Check out Jay Leno's Baker electric on KZfaq. 100 years old, still works perfectly. Batteries are new of course. but the motor will last generations. Our whole industry runs off electric generators and motors. They will last a looong time even at continuous duty. You can design any part to last as long as you want, but there are compromises. Modern batteries will probably last a million miles in a car. The batteries will out last the car and owner.

These motors are AC induction, so no magnets or contact points.

I’ve seen two fuel cars that start on regular diesel and once warmed up switch to used filtered cooking oils. Interesting. The exhaust makes me hungry for fish and chips. Seems to work alright. It may not work really well when it gets cold outside as the bio diesel may gel up. I saw that happen to a huge barrel of diesel used to run a diesel electric power system. It was fall and winter grade diesel was supposed to be delivered and accidentally got summer diesel. After a short tome the lights went out. It’s really hard to heat and drain a 5,000 gallon diesel tank. Tough lesson learned.

Well a human has a very narrow power band compared to an electric motor, so we really need a few gears on our bikes to make them more practical. There are a few bikes that doesn't have multiple gears, one of them being the "fixie" and I think there are some velodrome race bikes that has a fixed gear ratio. The fixie isn't really a practical bike, and the velodrome racers can't start without having someone help giving them a push. Other than those it's mostly children's bikes (and possibly BMX?) that comes with a single fixed gear.

Blahorga Slisk....If I can I buy today car for my daughter with fix gear sow she can start slowly and have speed limits...every beginners should have car with fixed gear or looked automatic with two gears :D

lolinskimk6 ...gear boxes go to hell in short time with instant 20 000 rpm

He said in video, that adding gearbox is too little advantage comparing to added complexity and weight (which reduces range). It is just not worth it.

If you watch the video, you will learn.

Interesting thank you

pSyk there was a Chevy S-10 I seen once that was converted to EV, but it also retained the 3 pedals and 5 speed. Wonder what that would be like to drive, I'd bet if you actually shifted it'd be very fast, as you can even get decent acceleration just in 5th gear alone lol

Look up the Detroit Electric SP:01

Some of the FE cars have a gearbox for better torque management...but it's flappy-paddle operated (stick would take up too much room in those cockpits).

pSyk why with it you lose space money and you slow the car down

In trade for range and entertaining driving. Quite a treat!

It is great and everything but it's time to move on now.

why would it be time to move on from internal combustion engines?

Me too, but do our neighbors? Or do you like it when you're sleeping or working? I don't.

David McClelland Until EV's can go at least 400 miles on a full charge and charge as fast as filling up at a gas station, i'll pass.

al kiou One of my neighbors has a loud motorbike, and no one seems to be complaining about it, even in the morning and night.

JohnnyDebt yes, there will be...but they dont hate them, i for one dont...but to ban vehicles with internal combustion engines, thats what triggers!!!

Don't forget the human drivers :) they're worse for the environment than the petroleum.

JohnnyDebt I don’t hate EVS I just believe consumers have a right to choose between combustion and electric Not everyone wants an electric car

Golden Retriever yes, agree with you on that 100%

Golden Retriever At some point you will have to. Oil is a finite resource.

That is what I am saying as well. I don’t own an electric vehicle but take that Formula-E car for example. It does 225 kph with the electric motor and just 1 gear. If you were to just slap on ONE more gear then you could easily get 375kph or maybe 400 kph out of the car. I understand that the electric motor is high revving and all but you can’t tell me that, speed-wise, it wouldn’t benefit from just 1 more gear!!! Crotch rockets oftentimes redline at or around 15,000 rpm and they have more than 1 gear. I know it’s apples and oranges but still. I would like to know your thoughts on my opinion, if you don’t mind.

tkorocky Nah, if you want HORSEpower ya gotta also divide by 5252.

While you are correct in an EV there are a few other factors. The battery for example will have a maximum current discharge limit. Power = Voltage x Current.

One question, how electric car move from 0 speed if it don't have power? I think this way of thinking is good for gas car, but not work for electric cars.

Sędziwój Poljak:) Power is product of speed and force. 0 rpm zero motor makes 0 power, but it has max torque or force. It acelerates with constant torque until it reaches max power. When it reaches max power, torque start to drop, but product of torque and revs stays constant, so it makes constant power. It max rews are limited by internal structure and by overrewing motor would fell apart.

Question: why is electric cars soo expensive if they're built with low cost??

Because they aren't (yet) built in high enough volumes! But that's changing and changing fast. the next ModelYear platforms are likely to achieve cost parity with ICE, and the one after that will be cheaper!

Because batteries are crazy expensive...

@Max Torque the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S is both mass produced...

@Rondo Cat if that be the case battery EVs will never take off... as they'll never be able to build an affordable EV...

acelakid94 Welcome from the club of metric units. Nice to see you finally understand our common predicament when we watch American videos.

Alex O. Haha but he's right they should have... Remember last time someone added metric units to help you and you didn't have to Google the data. How you thanked them. It's the little things in life you know.

I think you don't really need the imperial units to understand why a electric car doesn't need more than one gear. I guess it would be nice for you to immediately know if a formel e car is fast or not or how lare the tires are, but the math behind it keeps the same. And if the cars topspeed is 100 or 140 miles/h is, as my professor would say, trivial.

XilefR Sure, I don't _need_ it. The concept is simple enough to understand regardless of the units used, but it's nice to see a familiar number next to the foreign one. Besides, he says, "...what if you want to go 20 km/h?". People who use km/h know that's like a brief human sprint speed while I'm here doing the conversion to also have a similar real world comparison in my head while the main idea is further explained. In the end its all about relativity and as a imperial unit user, *I literally cannot relate.* 😂

No, convert and adapt, the imperial system needs to be abandoned because its inferior.

If you use two windings, of different lengths, you really have three "gears" 1=short winding, 2=long winding, 3=both windings in series, with two SPDT switches (and something to prevent both switches being set to the same tap point, which would short out the circuit.

You might enjoy this video, kinda what you're asking: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pb95d8V5ut66YI0.html