Hey I just wanted to look up your patreon but couldn't find it. Because I was looking at the description, before thinking about checking the comments. Have you considered putting the link in the description or in that info thing one can put in the video? I mean most people who actually want to donate will find your comment or just look up your name on patreon. But it might give you that one extra patron who wasn't entirely convinced from the get go. Edit: Thanks for the great video^^and the shout out to Tom O'Regan. I'm gonna see what he is all about Edit 2: Uhm apparently I was blind because your patreon link is in the description. Sorry about that

Smart try, however Mr Holmes, you have forgotten the fact you don't work for money :P

Thisss. All three of the first cases only have one other witness so that it's even MORE obvious who the killer is. For a good twist first case look at Apollo Justice, which... well it isn't my favorite first case in the series in large part BECAUSE it tries to pull a weird twist that ties in with a less satisfying final case, but the twist itself is done perfectly, albeit it's... also got a bit of moon logic for any first time player to have to remember the specific piece of information that's needed there.

This. I came to see this. Also, Mia knows about Dahlia's true nature from her other case, which makes you understand her behaviour even more after you finish the case 3-4.

Adding to this and Garr_Inc's point, there's a conversation right at the start about Mia practically harassing Grossberg to give her the case, hinting at her personal stakes. When Dahlia takes the stand Mia tenses up and their courtroom history is revealed, filling in some of those blanks. And at that point you also know from Phoenix's demeanor that she's emotionally manipulative, so for me the flower act came across as dissonant and unnerving. Less "is this demeanor a mask?" and more "Whatever's behind that mask, it's sure to be terrifying". My personal read is that cases 1 and 4 were written to build dread by mirroring each other in the player's knowledge versus Mia's. In case 1 you know something's fishy but not the scope of it, while Mia's horribly aware what Dahlia is capable of. In case 4 those roles are reversed, and there's also this nagging thought at the back of your mind that surely this can't end in a not guilty verdict against a young Edgeworth. 's good horror!

It fits the premise of the game. Phoenix is a lawyer, not a detective, his job is to prove his client's innocence. Finding the true culprit is just a mean to an end.

It fits the premise of the game. Phoenix is a lawyer, not a detective, his job is to prove his client's innocence. Finding the true culprit is just a mean to an end.

I'll screenshot this, very useful

@@aurin_komak I took a screenshot of the comment and then read this comment 😂

I took a screenshot and then look at the comment too

Funny thing, this rule of thumb is so memorable that I haven't even needed the screenshot. Whenever I think of mystery game design, this comment is the first thing that comes to mind.

I myself have played it and can confirm it is VERY interesting, especially the mechanic of figuring out the inscriptions, enough so that I get a little happy glee when I find a new inscription to figure out. It has its own flaws, but if you like adventures it may be worth a look.

Same here!

Very interesting indeed but the travel sections are boring. Too bad they can only be skipped in certain instances...

I did, and boy was I disappointed... It has a really interesting concept and a compelling mystery, but the game mechanics thwart your effort at every step. It seems that the developer went out of their way to prevent you to actually enjoy the game. Some "features" implemented in the game include, but are not limited to: - inability to fully investigate scenes, and arbitrarily being locked out of them if you misclick, for no reason whatsoever; - impossibility to fully question people: every step of a dialog contains 3 options and you can NEVER go back to investigate previous line of inquiry. Basically you can see only a single, specific branch of every dialog three in every game. - no save. Heavens forbid someone goes explore, investigate and question people in a game about an archaeologist investigating a mystery...

@@Beregorn88 I haven't played very much of it, but I also have complaints with the game. The literally constant prompts to talk to the robot are hard to ignore, and when you do talk to it you aren't allowed to interact with anything or even see what's interactable. So if you don't want to miss anything you just have to stand there and wait for the dialogue to finish. And then invariably ANOTHER prompt will pop up, and you can never be sure if the robot will have something important to say, so it becomes this constant dilemma. And I don't know if it was something wrong with my keybindings, but sometimes the player character would just interact with things or talk to people automatically when I walked up to them. It was a very jarring feeling when everything else was under my control. The game is also seriously lacking in the sound department. You get maybe some quiet ambient sound like wind or crickets and nothing else like 90% of the time. Very little music, no sounds for walking around, or interacting with stuff, or talking to people. I question their decision to have voice acting for the occasional narrated cutscene since the rest of the game is so silent. Also, related to your point about dialogue, there's this lady on the second planet that assumes you are your teacher, I forget her name, and asks if that's who you are. Now, a sensible, realistic conversation would proceed with something like "No I'm not, but I know her. Why are you looking for her?" Instead, your options are to lie and say you are her, tell a different lie that I don't remember, or the option that I picked, which is just to tell the truth that you aren't her, at which point the lady says "Oh okay," and walks away. Dialogue over. You can never talk to her again. GAH!!!

Ghost Trick is one of the best DS games ever

Yay for Nancy Drew! If you love puzzles these games are great.

Ghost Trick is a good game, with a good mystery plot, but I don't think of it as a good Mystery Game, per se. The actual gameplay elements are focused more on puzzles and Rube-Goldberging yourself around the world, while the cutscenes handle all the clues, etc. rather than trying to get the player to figure out what's going on at whatever pace they would normally approach it.

dang i hear it too

aneonfoxtribute for real though, I noticed in the intro to Furio Tigre’s case that the killer looked like Phoenix, and I almost immediately connected that to Phoenix’s embarrassing defeat at the hands of Payne. Then Furio actually showed his face, and a piece of me died when I realized that I wasn’t clever for figuring that out, and it was intentionally obvious.

It was for me until Outer Wilds showed up

Something about the stippled style makes it very unpleasant for me to look at. Does seem like a great game though.

I had a good time but so much of it felt like an invisible logic puzzle, and a hard one. Tough to finish solidly from my experience.

I raise you Her Story

I really have to ask for help to do in order to solve the mystery.

totaly the illuminaty that controled the first town quest were so inmersive for the island and plot.

I loved the concept of the MMO. Using the internet to solve quests in game just felt like a mechanic more games would have normally picked up and evolved on...

me too!!!

This exactly, mystery and puzzle are very closly related. Perhaps the difference is that mysteries are puzzles in which puzzle pieces have been hidden in a world / narrative?

puzzle games are more about thinking about the rules but mysteries are more about real-world logic

Congrats, man! Hope ur day was good afterwards

I just realized that his initials are both letters that do NOT sound like they should.

@@coyraig8332 ... should *what?*

@@The-toast The P doesn't sound like a P and the W is silent

@@coyraig8332 Well I mean no, the sound ph (puhuh) came from people underpronouncing the p, making it be fuhuh instead, then shortened to fuh, likely due to the letter F sharing that sound, and fuhuh being a similar sound to fuh. And as for wright, well it's not really a silent W, you can pronounce it as Wuhright it's Just that doing so has incredibly minor differences to Just saying right, so it seems silent.

@@The-toast Thanks for the history lesson, but you missed something very important: I was referring to modern English, not the method by which it got like that. How many people actually pronounce the "w" in "wr"?

It's an incredible mystery story, but the game part is lacking. However, I don't know how to make it more 'gamey'. It's...perfect the way it is.

That looks interesting

I won't argue that visual novels can be considered games, but it's a bit of a stretch to call Umineko a game...

@@dlszach Umineko (and Higurashi before it) repeatedly call themselves games in the text because the author is making the same point this video is making. A mystery story is itself inherently a game.

@@felonyx5123 This. They even talk about "difficulty" of each chapter despite there not being a mechanical failure state.

FINALLY I SEE A COMMENT THAT TALKS ABOUT UMINEKO! I’m confident to say it’s one of the best mystery stories ever , like that entire novel was absolutely genius and it was so fun to basically theorizes as you go through each episode, and the novel doesn’t TELL you the answers but more of showing the answers in such a unique way I just, ugh I love umineko sm However they could cut down the metaphors and analogies so it would be less long but still 😂

Judging by your profile picture, you’re a fan.

KAMAKURA KAMAKURA YASS QUEEN

@@averagebot935 Ok I need to find out where that's from. I have seen it as a comment in literally every Dangan video ever.

@@ricknaturalls2065 its from the danganronpa 3 anime

@@averagebot935 Makes sense. I have only played the first two games and haven't watched the Anime.

Congratulations man! I’ll never forget my first commissioned review :) it’s a great feeling! I hope it went well!

Weird, I instead loved the flow of conversations in the game. It has a living feel, conversations are interrupted or dropped because the world around you does not stop to let you talk. I agree that it is sometimes frustrating, but it adds to the feeling. And the protagonist is not a blank self insert but a character distinct from you. She lies, she is diffident, she can be greedy or bigoted or oblivious or kind or manipulative or respectful. You get to know her, and to steer her towards being a more decent person (if you want). The game is 100% about building a narrative, even more than it is about solving a mistery. I seem to understand that "you can only see a single specific branch" of the narrative is very much intentional design, and the game teaches you immediately to be careful and thoughtful of your responses. (But I will point out that returning to places and speaking with recurring characters lets you to raise specific questions again).

YEAH! I bought the game, but I couldn't figure out the flying mechanic, so i quit

@@cheyannegiles9772 oh God, the flying mechanics and the fucking rivers! One wrong turn and you have to make another 15 minutes trip around the whole nebula...

I dropped LA on the second or third case. I found glasses that belonged to a man who disappeared. They have clearly been broken in 2 and taped together in the middle. You can see the tape. When you question his wife she says that they are brand new. Doubting does nothing. That's where I understood that LA is not a detective game.

@@ofgreyhairwaifu4089 Did you beat that case though because the glasses come up.

@@ofgreyhairwaifu4089 I mean, that's no surprise, it just sounds like you did it wrong. She was clearly lying. You don't get to the truth in that instance by saying "Doubt", you do it by calling her out and shoving the glasses right in her face. Of course, it's well known that the dialogue choices in LA Noire were labeled poorly, as a decision made by the publisher. But modern releases of the game have changed it back from Truth-Doubt-Lie to Good Cop-Bad Cop-Lie. So while the game as you played it had a flaw in communicating what the options meant to the player, using that situation as a justification for calling it not a detective game is unsustainable at the face of it, since the player is clearly the one at fault rather than the game.

It has a strong interactive movie feel. You can breeze right through it in one long exhilerating play session like a TV season binge. I like it for that.

I have not played either of those but i can highlight another one, Shadow of Memories. It came out on PS2 originally, was quickly ported to Xbox and PC, and then eventually PSP. The game is an adventure where at the start of each chapter, the protagonist is killed, then resurrected, and has to prevent his murder or accidental death. Among your tools you have time travel between several eras, NPC dialogue and inventory. The basic playthrough through the story is quick and not too difficult, but it leaves you with more questions than answers, and by playing the story multiple times, and exploring different endings, you get to unravel the unrelying mystery. Eventually you might get to the true ending. There absolutely is forced pacing there, you simply don't have the options that you need until prior endings/playthroughs unlock a particular piece of information you can act upon, but also you have to understand what's going on first hand in order to progress, which is easier said than done. As you might guess, the mind screw runs deep with this one. Apropos under the radar. Time Hollow is by the same writer; she is also known for Suikoden series.

Google: *Sad robot noises

No your seeing things.

@@woofcat9363 *you'r

@@troo_6656 Yarr!

Never gonna give you up....something something Robo... Lavos..... I don't know

Indeed Disco Elysium is a linear game, you can reach alot of conclusions that are correct but you cant act upon them until you reach the end

Yes and No about disco Elysium. You can't solve the mystery before the end, but depending of the secondary quests you do and how you solve them you get different ending and different insight about what going on. You have more freedom with the secondary plots that you can ignore/fail to solve. The doomed Commercial center quest don't stop the first day and you can get another big twist later, but you really need to look for it. There is lot of 'hidden' informations. Disco Elysium is less about solving a mystery than exploring a story with different angles. Each copotype & political belief color the story in a different way and give you a slightly different ending. Example, if you go for an 'occult' path, you'll get lot of weird and surprising informations about the world and the plot. But I think the game would have been better if the murder plot was less linear and free to solve like a mystery game since in the end it's not the most important aspect of the game.

Spoilers! Not only that but it has a severe case of suspecto ex machina. Scooby Doo has better suspect foreshadowing than this game. There could've be many way to make the suspect part of the background from the beginning since the suspect could move about the city with ease.

I miss this advertising campaign so much omg

not only that, the mysteries are arguably not the focus, the focus is squarely on Holmes himself. But not on him trying to surpass himself to solve tough cases (he's pretty much in god mode from the start) nor on him trying to connect with his peers despite an atypical intellect (though he is very much alienated, the show seems to think it's very cool that he behaves like a jerk) but simply on him being the smartest and being insufferable about it.

Arguably, many of the stories are like that, partly due to framing it in such a way that Watson (and by proxy the reader) cannot know information Holmes does and in several stories he picks up on something with essentially detective vision. I think the reason you'd do it is to be impressed by the genius of the character and interested in the tale rather than attempting to legitimately puzzle over it for yourself. I think if you prefer trying to reason it out with an actual hope of being consistently right, or at least consistently capable of being right with the evidence at hand, you may want to read Agatha Christie instead since her mysteries tend to have more of the clues visible to the audience. Personally I like both stories but I don't bother trying to find solutions in Doyle's work. Still, Sherlock the show didn't ever really interest me either, I'll grant that. I dunno, something about a smug, drug addled jerk solving crimes in a book is just more engaging.

You might enjoy listening to Hbomberguy's epic exploratory rant on the matter. The title is clickbaity in that it's emotionally charged, but he uses his knowledge from filmschool to lay out arguments as to why it's a misrepresentation of the genre of the source material (that is, Sherlock Holmes novels) and thus fails to really be an adaptation. He called it "Sherlock is garbage and here's why" link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gtGfeqWA2JvJk4E.html But as to why you might show his "magic detective vision" this video by The Take makes the argument that it's used as a visual characterization technique. Basically it shows us How he thinks, and then the shows narrative can use that to show a contrast to other aspects of his characterization. They also outline how Sherlock as a show is about the characters, their interpersonal relationships and growth, making it a Drama rather than a Mystery. (And as a Drama it's compelling, but it'll never be a mystery) They also make the argument that it's an examination and partial rejection of the tropey archetype his character is usually presented as. "Sherlock: The Loner Genius Myth" link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ptZjn62Wstmpdas.html

I think it's a little ironic that I enjoyed Sherlock as something to watch, but not as a mystery show, just as a funny and occasionally dramatic one, even though the original Sherlock Holmes stories are my favourite thing in literature. And I agree with everything hbomberguy said in that video. I just thought the show was fun despite that. I should note I didn't finish watching it. I heard it got really bad, so I never went back.

the amount of times the games tries to get you to stop was hilarious, my brother didnt get it after the first few "are you sure? there is nothing left" and got the "bad" ending... pretty funny

your patron names read off was naturally hilarious

ive seen the anime series you think i can play them and they have something i havent seen yet?

@@doller2749 Higurashi novel has a lot of details skipped in the anime, but the core mystery is already solved so you won't get that much out of it. Umineko however is a must read whether you've seen the awful anime or not.

@@electricant55 gotcha thanks m8

Matt Sonneillon i totally agree with unheard. It is a hidden gem of a game, it is so much fun!

@@missitheachievementhuntres560 definitely, I just wish there was more cases. Steam curator? You must play a lot of games on steam. I think I have like 144 steam games myself lol

I love Atelier games like Moonlighter but the resource grind turned me off :( I think it’s an amazing game, it just doesn’t feel like it’s for me. Should I persist until the end?

it's a pretty small quest but yes. About 2mm to be precise. ;)

Cool, until they give you hangman's gambit and rhythm minigame.

I never know what to do with the water world murder mystery...