Forgot to add that the studies mentioned are in the description. Also, I know I this was in the video but I keep seeing the same comments. It’s totally OKAY to not like boy bands. No one should be forced to like anything. This video is specifically addressing the ANTI-FANS as defined in Duffet’s study.

i feel like the guys who do hate boybands come from a place of jealousy. they dont like that these men get women's affections without being what these men think men should be, or what these men wish they could be.

I think the whole "they're gay" thing has a lot more to do with the fact that the "stud-male archetype" tends to see being gay as a sign of being weak and fragile, by calling these boy bands gay, they wish to curb their insecurities and display superiority over them. In their minds, these male types aren't showing aggression and anything that doesn't show aggression is weak and feminine, which is why they pride themselves on their false sense of masculinity. It's just to mask their insecurities over the success of a male type that isn't theirs.

You fail to mention how their isn't the same hate to rockstars who get a lot of women, and they tend to be idolized by men even if they are also media creations.

I was just at Stray Kid's encore show in LA a few days ago and I was AWED by the amount of fanboys I saw not only around me, but on social media (including fathers, and Jason Earl). Like the amount of men I heard screaming was insane! Music is universal and I'm glad there's more openness nowadays where anyone of any gender can enjoy good music.

Every time I like a song by a boy band, nobody should know it, because others often put it down.

"I think they are not cool and I am jealous of the attention they get from girls. Feels like I am not going to be likable if I don't act like them and I don't want to" Me when I was a teenager.

As a dude, I totally hated these types of groups when I was younger. I was definitely the type of teenager to make fun of someone for like One Direction. Now as an adult, I still don't like them, but I don't care if other people do. I think your idea has a lot of merit.

I'm a dude and I love a Boy Band! A lot of the black Boy Bands are loved within the culture (Boys II Men, B2K, New Edition, Jackson 5, Jodeci, Dru Hill, 112, Jagged Edge, Day26) I could go on forever. Furthermore I love a good K-Pop too.

Before watching, as a dude, I'll say this, I don't hate Boy Bands or K-Pop. I hate their obnoxious fans. I hate obnoxious fans of all genres, honestly.

Most people don't even want to look past stereotypes and just want to jump on hate trains "just because". If they did, they'd know BTS basically go beyond most of these stereotypes. (using them as an example because I am a fan, Army, and I don't know enough about other Kpop acts to speak on their behalf.) BTS basically write all of their songs, and they have been doing that since the very beginning. From the very first album, throughout their whole career as a band and solo artists, to this day. Three of their members (J-Hope, Suga, RM) are the main song writers and took park in the creation of every album and have hundreds of song credits each. RM writes songs for other artists. SUGA produces for other artists as well. Every member is also part of the Korean Copyright Association and have written and produced many songs as well. They do have "love songs", especially in their earlier days (as they were literal teens themselves), but they cover a whole lot of different topics as well, even psychological concepts like Carl Jung's map of the soul (whole albums about that!). They also have "love songs" written using gender neutral pronouns on purpose, especially in their later works. To understand their lyrics completely, I'd suggest sites like "doolset bangtan" which break down their lyrics, especially the korean wordplays and references that aren't found on a simple "lyric video". They got me reading pages of lyrics breakdowns for fun and I've never done that with any artist i listen to on the regular. Even if they were put together by someone else and did not "come together" naturally, they still had to rise to the top with their own blood, sweat and tears. They do have an "underdog" story and that's one of the many reasons why their fans are so dedicated. They came from a small company which was on the verge of bankruptcy and experienced hate since the early stages of their careers until now. Despite their many struggles (I'd suggest to take a look into their story, for anyone who's interested) they still came on top because they have always been genuine talented people. And speaking of male fans! In their latest concert(s), they asked only the men in the stadium to cheer, and it legit sounded like a football stadium. Very fun. My comment is messy and has no structure whatsoever AND I don't know where I'm going but all I'm saying is, uh, don't judge a book by its cover. Or something.

I use Instagram and Tik Tok as a self promotional tool as I'm an artist. I like to highlight body positivity and positive masculine energy. I've definitely dealt with some very mean spirited negative dudes trying to "put me in my place".While I know my content isn't for everyone,it often comes across from insecurities..as if I'm a threat to them. When I started becoming more vocal that I am a gay male artist,I noticed I got less negative responses.. almost as if I wasn't a threat as I was in a different dating pool.

it's sad because I think girls in general can really not find peace in most music fan spaces. if girls like rock or rap, they are questioned or othered and if they like pop (kpop) they are mocked or looked down on. music is music and boybands are fun! and BTS exploded because their approach and rise was specifically non-manufactured in the standard way of boybands. you've got members who are humble and genuinely passionate about music and performance and showmanship. their additional variety show content gets fans invested in personality the same way people become fans of actors. combine music, fashion and charisma and youve got a perfect storm for a successful group. but i see lots of fans saying how can they settle for any men after knowing the members. So I do understand the jealousy factor. Their content is edited so they seem perfect. Maybe its the equivalent of girls hating on models or beauty standards that make it more difficult for the normal gal. Anything that raises the bar for existing might have an automatic negative reaction from their demographic.

i ran a little thought experiment on my guy friends once- showed them boy band songs but called some of them kpop, but some of them kr&b despite them still being kpop songs. what do you know, they were much more receptive to the “kr&b” songs because they can’t get past their kneejerk judgment of boy bands. i find it a bit sad that some people won’t just enjoy music that sounds good but oh well

I'm glad my husband doesn't fall into the category of men hating boy bands/kpop groups. He's always been openly into Kpop. He was a big fan of SNSD and Big Bang as a kid, LOL. Nowadays he's really into G-IDLE, XG, Stray Kids and SB19.

BTS has a lot of artistic integrity and influence in their music. They are all members of the Korean Copyright Association and have songwriting credits, producing credits or composing credits on almost all of their roughly 300 songs. I guess this could actually be one of the reasons why BTS surprisingly has a quite large male following aswell. I have seen countless times that guys who find out that BTS actually writes a lot of their own stuff and are able to play an extremely large variety of instruments, they get fans of BTS or at least express some sort of respect. I think it is kind of funny that boy bands get a lot of hate because they seem to portray a perfect image of a male with emotional and technical skills, and thats why males who lack those skills precieve them as some sort of threat and try their hardest to bring them down. Which means guys want to bring them down because females could develop to high of a standard for their potential partner. I think it is interesting to mention, that males have an extremely high standard for boy bands for guys to become fans aswell. Best example is BTS. BTS has a quite large male fanbase and it usually happenes a lot slower than with female fans. Guys seem to become genuine fans when they find out that BTS writes almost all of their songs and are involved in produncing and composing. That BTS can play a large variety of instruments but choose to dance, not because they lack the skill of playing instruments. That BTS spreads a positive and quite introspective message and admit to mistakes and question their position in society. Female fans know all of these things aswell. But guys need these facts served on a silver platter for them to take BTS seriously and in return have to explain themselves with these facts to other males why they find BTS interesting. Females also have a very high standard. But I guess we aren't as vocal or actually insecure about sharing our genuine interest. Male fans always seem like they have to explain themselves or validate their interest in BTS so they don't get mocked. There is unfortunately definitely a connection between something female fans find exciting and the impression that it is rooted in hysteria and not worthy of respect.

I mean, I'm a teenage guy and I don't have any problems with either boy bands or girls'. I prefer the 'live and let live' motto. If you like 'em, cool. If you don't, cool. But imo why a lot of guys are jealous/envious of them is that , in general, they're insecure about their own masculinity, so calling other men gay is pretty easy compared to trodding on the path of developing their own version of healthy masculinity. But yk, are there any prevalent role models for those guys who really want to practice healthy masculinity in the mainstream media? The popular aspects are either feminine guys or the red-pill thing. So can't blame them too tbh.

BTS reading "they don't create their music" comment with their 200+ writing and producing credits on their bag. But yeah, I too feel like it's a competition thing, men are scared that men that are not manly enough gets all the female following instead of them. I also feel like male gaze and female gaze plays a role as well as men just not understanding what majority of women or girls actually like.

I remember when bts asked their male fans to scream in a concert and they were SOOOOO loud it sounded like a football stadium, the members were shook. These were mostly GROWN men with beards too, not teenage boys or young males. I'd say they were even louder than the girls

16:30 i might be biased in saying this since i will admit i do enjoy BTS's music, but I think to make the claim that they "do very little in creating their songs" is kind of a generalization of boy bands. they are very active with producing and writing their songs, even choreography. a little research would show that. i could see his original point being applied to other boy bands, even kpop ones, but bts is not one of those. however, i do agree with the toxicity surrounding only caring about appearances. however, that is more of a critique of fan culture not the groups themselves. also to take into account korea's long history of extremely toxic beauty standards

I'm gonna be honest A lot of the comments here are very sadly heteronormative. And I think that's another distinct thing to point out. We have a lot of comments saying guys hate boy bands because women have higher standards, or that fragile masculinity is the reason why men can't like what women like. It's mostly a man vs woman discourse about their perceived preferences, and it sucks because people have fallen to the trap of a divisive comparison based on gender. This is why there are comments like "I'm a metalhead but I love pop music", people who have to preface their comments by saying "I am a man/woman but-" or those who claim some music are guilty pleasures, when freely admitting something is just fine. It's sad that some facets of music have been gendered for absurd reasons, and people often fail to remove those lenses in active discussion (even though they have good intentions).

“One Direction has been booed, but Harry Styles not so much” literally shows a clip where someone from the crowd at the Grammy’s yelled at him to get off the stage 🫠

I love how the one who hates bts knows nothing about bts because they said they hate them for not writing their music when thats literally what bts is known for which is writing their music and talking openly about their feelings, its what makes them stand out in the kpop industry and to some extent the western industry as well.

I feel like a lot of these dudes that hate boy bands and k-pop feel intimidated. They hate that girls swoon over them. They hate that they’re good-looking while simultaneously also being charming and talented. They know they can’t compete so they get in their feelings instead of focusing on what they can offer. I also think misogyny comes into play; whatever girls and women like is deemed “cringy.” Hair, nails, skincare, fashion, etc. being examples. If we love boy bands and/or k-pop, we’re obnoxious and childish. If we love any other genres or artists, we’re a pick-me looking for attention. You can’t win. When k-pop comes into play, racism can be a big factor, too. They feel upset that a man of a race they see as inferior is being given so much female attention.

A lot of kpop artist write there music, and those who don't, usually they like to take part in either the music or choreography. You see this a lot when kpop artist create solo works later down the line when they get more control

"overrated dudes that ordinary guys just don't stand a chance against" okay but ordinary guys also don't stand a chance against people like henry cavil or chris hemsworth for example, and I don't see this amount of hate towards them "cringe, corny" well do you think you don't look cringe displaying your jealousy against people who you'll never meet? "we're not okay with softboys" oh so you're homophobic "bts do very little in creating their songs" absolutely not true, they've always been very involved in their creative work and it can be seen specially in their recent solo releases "i'm pretty sure i could kick their asses" i'd like to see them try if it's that easy So it looks like it boils down to misogyny, homophobia and racism

my dad had a low influence in my life for being a male role model, I had to teach myself what is ethical and morally right growing up, my mom was there too but I had it rough with her, what she had to teach me came in a form of punishing me and I understand why she did that. Now I discovered BTS towards my early adult life and all I can say is that they had a positive influence on my life when it comes to the lyrics and meaning of their songs or what they stand for, and they served as a very good role model in my life as well. IMO the ones who put out hate; they don't understand or they won't try to understand what's going on before they judge someone.

But BTS doesn't fit the Wiki definition either because 1. members have writing and producing credits all over their albums and 2. they don't write love songs marketed toward girls. (are there some love songs, yes. of course. is it even half their songs? no) Yet, when I got into BTS provings this to my male friends and brothers didn't sway anyone's mind on their boy band status. In fact a surprising amount of guys I know clung to the boy band moniker even when I asked them to define a boyband and then gave examples as to why BTS wasn't a boyband by their own definition. They just moved on to another definition (that i ruled out) until they ran out and said 'whatever, they're still a stupid boy band.' Several years into this anecdotal study I have two conclusions as to the hate. 1.they raise the bar of male beauty standards 2. Men, at least in America, aren't trying to be men by women's preference. They're trying to be men by men's preferences. Guys don't want to be what women want in men... they want to be what men want in men. And men don't want 'soft boys', even if women do. What gets me the most about the hate is that it's manifested not by the band itself, but soley on women's response to the band. They know nothing about a group but they instinctively know they hate it and just make up reasons? Take for example the guy you quoted in this video "BTS themselves do very little in creating their songs." Meanwhile BTS members have broken records for writing credits. one writes and produces for other artists regularly. They have this knee jerk reaction to hate a group for no other reason than that women like them.... why not question that about yourself? If you dont like it because you dont like it, thats fine, but why make up reasons? If that guy was told about BTS' participation in making their own music do you think he'd change his mind? In my (again, anecdotal) experience, they just shift to another made up reason. TL;DR Version: It's not the boy band that they hate. It's that the boy band doesn't cater to men. Seeing a group of men cater to women's preferences in men makes them very uncomfortable because what women like isn't what men like in men. They're not manly enough. They don't appeal to men enough. They only appeal to women. They committed the sin of being attractive to women and not men. which is somehow gay.

I genuinely agree with the conclusion you came to on this video. I do think that the popularity of "softer" guys -- especially popularity to the level boy bands get -- conflicts with the "alpha males get women" faux-evolutionary worldview a lot of these guys have, and that upending of their worldview is disturbing to them so they react really violently angrily against it. However, I think one thing this video seems to ignore is the difference between "marketed at" teenage girls and "happens to appeal to" teenage girls. It seems to me that it's very consistent that male hate is specifically targeted at things that are specifically built (whether by executives or, in the case of some internet personalities, the person themself) for maximum teen girl appeal. As soon as Harry Styles wasn't in the "boy band" anymore and was being more apparently authentic & doing a style of music that boys in my generation & our dads liked, then guys were much more okay with him. Timothee Chalamet wasn't trained & styled for teen girl appeal, teen girls just happen to love him. Even the Jonas Brothers, who play their own instruments so you left them out of this conversation, are consistent with this. They were recruited and groomed by a label in order to target the teen girl demographic, and they get a lot of hate too. But if you just HAPPEN appeal to teenage girls, and you're authentically "soft" rather than groomed & styled that way, then guys don't seem as threatened by that, probably because these ideal guys who come across as apparently more "authentic" have an attractiveness that, because it's a bit rougher around the edges, perhaps seems more attainable.

As a dude, i used to shit on boy groups when I was in middle school. I used to hate like JB, 1D, 5SOS and all that, but in high school I pulled a 180 and started liking kpop and genuinely just changed my minds about all the boys that girls crazed. Now I just dont care, if they make good music, then I like them

Not gonna lie there’s also a side that’s really sinister about it and it has to do with p3d0ph!les. It’s not just about boy bands any artist or actor who has majority teen girl fan base will get huggeee waves of hate (Justin Bieber for example) and want to know where the majority of the hate comes from? Older men. That’s right, Justin Bieber blew up around 16 and the majority of his fan base was like 14-17 year old girls, these old gross ass men would quite literally complain about teen girls liking boys their own age instead of liking some old ass men like them, literally trying to force underage girls to like older men by bashing him and making them feel ashamed for feeling attraction to their own age range 🤢🤢 Happened with BTS too they blew up in their early 20’s most of their fans at the time were around 16-19 I believe, hoards of older men coming after them saying they weren’t “man” enough. It’s definitely a manipulation tactic to try and make girls attracted to men way outside their age range 🤮

I really think the evolutionary aspect is a massive stretch and is not nearly as as contributive, if at all, to the hate as misogyny, their general lack of quality, and hating on them becoming a cultural tradition. Other "evolutionarily desirable" groups of men (or at least by the standards the studies you provided layed out) dont get any of the same hatred at all. Likewise, we dont see the same hateful reaction to popular female influencers from girls and women. It really doesn't make much sense to me.

Here are few reasons which I think can be some of the factors: 1. Because Boy bands sets unrealistic absurd expectations(which are highly PRed and manufactured) for Boys/Men in Girls/Women, whether it's how to act, behave, look or dress. This can be proven for every era if you pick up any popular Boy Bands of that era and then see changes in Boys/Men of that era. Same is applicable for vice versa. 2. Implicit or explicit comments or comparison of their Boyfreinds or in dating world with some member of Boy bands. It could be linked to the point you made in the video about Mate Competition. 3. Lack of tolerance to criticism amongst Girls/Women towards their favorite Boy Bands whether it's on twitter or facebook. Doxxing, hating, cancelling someone is common among fangirls of these boybands if someone dare to criticize or not like them. Criticism of them is a great litmus test to see why many men dislike boybands which unfortunately seem to be the source for this type of behavior since you rarely see any acceptance or call out from the artists for this type of unhinged behavior. You may find them here in this video too defending their boybands in some form or other. 4. I would say a Jealousy of some form, whether is it's success, fame, wealth or looks is definitely a contributing factor to this. 5. "Boy Bands caters only to women" Something which caters only to women naturally brings out a dislike to the people who it isn't catered to. Same can be said for vice versa like Something catering to only men. So, I wouldn't call it "Misogyny". 6. Hatred of Celebrity worship culture in general.

I noticed too that a lot of the boy bad hate comes from male insecurity. They somehow feel less in comparison, and I swear it's mostly very young men but not exclusively them. Some men in their 20s and 30s can get very VERY nasty towards boyband members and their fans. I'm a 36 years old BTS army, and as an army I know most BTS fans are adults. Probably because they write their own lyrics and have a lot of creative freedom, they appeal to adults also. Their lyrics and concepts are super deep, and they rarely speak about traditional romantic love. We get TONS of hate from males that think we are teenagers, so I know first hand how it is. And let's be clear, the hate is unfair to teenagers too cause young girls have the right to enjoy what they love, and passion shouldn't be confused with "histeria". People portray fan girls as crazy or less capable of reason and that is misogyny, cause when a man cries and screams when his favorite sports team loses no one blinks an eye.

TL;DW: It's because it's stuff girls enjoy.

I live in the Midwest and work in a steel shop so you can already guess the type of work environment and coworkers I have to deal with. Does it make me hesitant to share my interest in kpop with them? Absolutely not. I'm constantly annoying these dudes with song recommendations, facts about my favorite groups and idols, and why JungKook is my bias. It's always unsolicited but their reactions are entertaining. Too many guys are so petrified of things that challenge or go against their personal perception of masculinity that they overcompensate and feel the need to put others down who enjoy said things. Or they're jealous, either way it all stems from a place of insecurity.

I feel like it's just the good ol' "it's all unfair" deal. A "normal" dude sees some "girly" bois dancing around and singing in a high-pitched voice and for whatever reason all the girls are swooning over those bois, but not the "normal" one. And this "normal" guy heard before that women are supposed to value proper MANLY MEN, and he's OBVIOUSLY way more manly than those boyband sissies, yet he fails to attract a single partner. This whole thing then turns into hate towards the boybands (because it's more acceptable to do that to other men) and laughter/ridicule at the teen girls (because "they don't know better"), with obviously the extreme form of this being the somewhat recent "Tate cult" where dudes start directly hating women for all kinds of "reasons".

In the past I think my distaste for boy bands came mostly from insecurity. I was envious of the effect they had on girls around me especially the ones I liked or was dating. I don’t think we need evolutionary psych to explain this one 😂

One thing I feel is important is that Boybands rely heavily on sex-appeal, something which is going to completely bounce off of heterosexual males. I also feel like a lot of them drive to create a parasocial relationship amongst their followers, which also skeeves me out.

I smell…Jealous😂 And maybe hate of industry farms. But mostly they didn’t hate Boy Bands but they jealous of love and popularity that boy bands have. And I think it about female/male gaze too. Tough boys can be really sad because it’s hard to understate for them that their idea about the dream boy do not coincide with the female. they can't fit this image of the perfect man. But should they? It’s another question.

I will rewatch this later with my husband (he's Korean) & see what he thinks. Thanks, Donna! EDIT: We're older (40s), from the 1st generation hallyu (Korean wave.)

Exactly.. it's okay not to like bts or kpop but some people literally make fake accts just to leave hate comments.. and some are just racist and ignorant comments Like a certain black Podcaster said he hates a certain group for no reason

I will try to be as transparent as possible 10 years ago when i was 18~ i used to hate them mainly because i was a sheep and repeated what the majority of guys around me said (i wanted other guys approval of me) (yes i know it was pathetic) also yes i was kinda jealous of them but thats about it Now at 27 im just doing my own thing and couldn't give a damn about what other people like or hate Right now The only criteria that makes me hate or like a music is if it annoyes me or if its fun to listen to (i actually like some of their songs now)

As a dude who grew up with a disdain for boy bands, a lot of that stemmed from a mixture of body image/self esteem issues and general insecurity. Seeing these groups gain the affection and attention for being attractive and talented is something I always craved during this time of my life. I suspect this is the case for many other young men who have similar viewpoints. Our desire to be desired as individuals fuels both the fans of boy bands and the haters of boy bands in distinct ways. I personally feel like an increased focus on media literacy would help these haters enjoy (or at the very least understand) boy bands better and process there feelings. I have lots of thoughts on this topic but I just wanted to get my main points out into the ether.

Didn't finish the video yet, but a caveat is that a lot of Korean fans of female Kpop groups are male

Never have I ever felt shameful in calling myself a BTS fan. They are artists with true talent. They have been discredited by society but Im thankful that I gave them a chance without any prejudice.

In Kpop there is no such thing as the stereotype that they don't write their songs or don't play instruments, maybe they don't play instruments in concerts but to produce and write their songs they know how to play instruments like guitar, bass, piano, and even the turntables.

I get called gay all the time for liking kpop boy groups because that's just what everyone assumes. I try showing my friends and family and all the guys seem so uncomfortable. Saying things like they look like girls, why are they wearing makeup, etc, etc. It's definitely the fandoms and culture who turn away guys but then they turn around and collect baseball cards or go to a basketball game to see their favorites play. I've just accepted that kpop and boy groups in general are aimed for the girls and while guys are welcomed it's not really for us.

Personally i think the main reason some men hate boybands is that it goes against what they've been taught and it scares them; they've been taught what traits are masculine and that women will be attracted to those, and that's what they think all men should perform. Then they see a bunch of guys who are the opposite of what they think men should be; they act soft, they show their emotions, and they *gasp* wear makeup. And not only are they accepted, they're praised by people and especially women. So it confuses and angers those men. So i do think it mostly comes from their patriarchal minds.

I would argue that BTS Army is now growing with a male demographic over the years based on the fact at one of their concerts, I think it was at PTD Las Vegas, they did a roll call of men who were at the concert to yell and shout their presence and there was a roar. It was LOUD AF.

i am so excited to see you cover this topic! i think i'm first! edit: not the trolls in the comments already giving us more anecdotal evidence for this theory

I was a pick me back in the day and I only made fun of boybands to appeal to guys I liked. But now I'm a lesbian so we learn and we grow!

I’m excited for this, because I’ve been wondering that myself.

I do think the "these guys are taking away potential mates" thing is an element, especially when combined with the the addition of "they are taking them away from ME a Real Man." I think the purely competition aspect is combined with patriarchal ideas of what makes a man-- the kind of man that patriarchy believes should get women; when a man who doesn't fulfill this expectation gets as much or more interest from women, that's a problem. The attractive man is somehow a fake, or not even a man at all; the women are experiencing attraction "incorrectly," and SHOULD actually prefer someone more in line with male expectations of masculinity. The perfect encapsulation of this is Rudolph Valentino. Despite existing long before boy bands were even thought of, women were Wild for him, and men committed themselves to hating him. Guys wrote newspaper pieces about why women should want a "real man" like John Barrymore rather than Valentino; they claimed he was gay; they went into hysterics when he wore jewelry; one even challenged him to a fight to prove all this (and then chickened out)-- all of this despite Valentino's affairs with women and multiple marriages, successful career, interest in boxing and sports and chiseled physique. Basically Valentino was proof that men could be different than what was typically on offer, and in fact could look, act, and dress in ways women actually preferred to the patriarchal standard-- for men who were committed to the idea that their own image of masculinity was the only valid one, Valentino was not only competition, he was a threat on every level. I think boy bands in general but Especially kpop generate hate for a lot of the same reasons; men want women to be attracted to them while they uphold male (and often patriarchal) ideas of masculine appeal, and are mad when they don't. When a man comes along who actually pays attention to what women think is attractive and behaves or appears in that way, they prove that men are not somehow incapable of pleasing women, and that men who work TO please women get the lion's share of female attention and interest. This is threat to patriarchal ideas because a. what men think should be good enough for everyone, and b. this could cause women to develop standards and awareness! And since the men doing the critiquing are usually nowhere near as attractive or successful as the men being critiqued, the only effective tool the critique-ers have is the claim of inauthenticy-- these men are not what they seem because their talent is not real, or because their maleness is not.

yeah, it's really the difference between "don't like" (neutral) and "dislike" (negative)

Love your videos they really make me think

10 points for adding Lucas! You just gave me nostalgia. And as a kid, I used to enjoy New Kids on the Block and mexican boy band Magneto. But as I hit puberty, I gravitated to rougher sounding groups. And poo pooed "sissy" (my words) sounding bands. As you get older you forget about both and cringe at memories of you being a boy band hater.

Coming from a girl who used to spend a little bit of time hating boy bands as a Teen. a) I hated them because every other girl seemed to love them, and I thought I needed to find a way to be different and not like other girls and b) I thought if I publicly hated them I could avoid resentment and disapproval from my male peers, who directed resentment and disapproval towards any girl who was heavily invested in a boy band or similar figure (Justin Bieber etc). Really, if I'm being honest with myself, as a teen I was of utterly zero social value whatsoever. I had no popularity and NO dating value. Considering this, I probably thought hating on boybands and similar figures would give me some kind of dating value or social value to male peers, lol. It never did. People, just please wait till you get out of highschool before you start worrying about how undateable you are, the real world cares so much less. New thought: On the other side of the coin, I had such chronically low self esteem as a teen, and at 15, I had seen all my peers going on dates, getting together, reaching all the coming-of-age "dating milestones". I thought I wasn't worthy of the dating world because the closest I had come to it was a year 7 boy asking me if I was a lesbian because he'd actually never seen me with a boy, romantically. Way to rub it in you little brat. In a way I probably saw the girls who lurrrrrved boybands as my own competition. As far as I was concerned every girl in the world was prettier, smarter, sweeter, cuter than me, so it's not like any of the song lyrics could have ever beeen written about someone like me either. These song lyrics are about girls like them, and they're being sung by boys like them. In short, "Boys Like Them would never sing Songs Like That about Girls Like Me."

Naw you crazy to be a “dude” and hate Big Time Rush

I would say with bts it different because they are not marketing for teenager girls yes sure they have more females than males but the reason behind that is because people assume that their music is just like other boy bands and because they started Young when in reality most of their fans are adults and only few of them are teenagers and it shows in the statistic in this video and actually they started as a hip hop group and two of the members were underground rappers and another member was a street dancer and at the time when BTS debuted it wasn't an important thing in K-pop for groups to write their own music and since their debut all of them have credits in their songs(RM is the youngest and second most-credited songwriter in the association's(korea)history with more than 200 credits) and even one of the members who was an underground rapper sign with the company to be a producer and the three rappers of bts already released mixtapes and I saw a lot of reaction of dudes who actually don't like boy band or they are just into hip-hop become so shocked after reacting to bts because it's not what they actually expected because BTS focuses on everything they have their looks and dancing that attached teenagers but at the same time their music is not just about love it's about multiple topics in society like mental health self-love and they would criticize the education system of Korea and talk about the problems of the society etc... and they would do lives and releases a lot of interviews and stuff where they are talking about the process of making the album and unlike the Western groups who broke up and didn't resign their contract bts actually did resigned there contract in 2018/2019 for more 7 years and even now the reason why they have a break is because of military service and I know a lot of people would come and say that they are fake I would answer you that I've been following bts for 7 years now and I've known ton of boy bands no boy bands come close to the relationship that bts have between themselves don't tell me that a group would stayed and lived together at the same house for ten years(some members live together for 13 years)and how in the first place they become famous even in Korea there were much more popular groups than them who actually have big companies that can promote them and fun fact people would call them ugly because other groups have more handsome guys and how out of all the American and British boy bands that speak English they become more famous than them when we know so well how hard it is for a Korean speaker group to be that famous in America and it wasn't for like one or two years it's now for six years and BTS are now almost in their 30s (jin and suga are already 30 years old)

So basically they are been bitter while using homophobia and skillfulness as cover...thought as much.

Anybody else just hates the commercialization of culture? I see no difference between a boyband and, say, Taylor Swift or Drake. I also hate Marvel movies and WWE. Yeah, I'm really fun to be around.

Hot take: men who hate boy bands couldn't say "I love you" to anyone without thinking it makes them gay.

As a woman i dont like boy bands because i see them as a corporate product and the exact opposite of what i want music to be. I dont have a problem if people like them but that doesnt mean i cant be critical of them when discussing my opinions. Theyre the musical equivalent of harem anime or capeshit. A lot of music fans dislike boybands for this exact reason. Just because you like them doesnt mean there arent legitimate artistic criticisms to be had here.

In the kpop industry most of the groups have a dating ban to make their fans feel like there could be a potential chance of their idols liking them back. Kinda an artificial delusion. Thus, calling them boyfriend/girlfriend bands is pretty accurate lol

Hm ... Here is why: A Boyband is Onlyfans for teenage girls. I said it here. It costs almost as much money as well if you want to stan them. Maybe more. And I think everything that wants to sell you either a girlfriend or boyfriend experience is creepy. Go outside and look for a real human being and grow as a person instead of rotting in your fantasy world that you bought for money. My hate is based on this: a predatory behavior sucking the lifeblood of a wonderful human emotion, to make money.

Great video ! As a boy, I have a better understanding of the hate dudes can have about boys band. For the part concerning the fact that boy bands are considered gay, I would say that this is partly due to the target audience. The members of boy bands have an appearance and an attitude that deviates quite a bit from the conception of an attractive man from a man's point of view (as you explained in your video "Male vs Female Gaze") without mentioning the lyrics which seem quite cheesy and express a form of weakness (I realize that I grew up in a "tough boy" community) or more generally, a boy does not see his friends behaving this way, so it can be confusing the first time Anyway, thank you for this video. We see the effort you put into creating quality content. I learned a lot thanks to this channel and I look forward to seeing your next releases

Also what people on your insta responded can be seen as ableist "why do they obsess over these boy bands blah blah blah" most "obsessions" are actually special interests young girls have but since young girls have often been discredited when it comes to possibly having autism or ADHD, then people are ableist towards them bc they can't understand their "obsession", so i think we can come to the conclusion that hate on boy bands come to these issues in men and allistic afab people: 1. Misogyny 2. Homophobia 3. Toxic Masculinity 4. Ableism

Be me a dude, be into kpop since BigBang, be called out, but now I stan LOONA and XG

What’s is odd to me is rock bands from back in the day wore makeup and “feminine” clothing as well. Like look at Led Zeppelin shows during their prime in the 70s. They’d wear high heels, makeup, tight clothing. Punk bands in the 2000s did even more. And yet the people consider them to be like the peak representation of masculine artists. But this Seems to be a particular problem with kpop because a lot of westerners have, for many years, attempted to emasculate Asians.

I have a question.and a theory. While the late 90s boy bands were hated on, Black or African American boy bands or R&B boy bay bands seemed to be more celebrated by men in the black community and other racial groups. For example I met a metal head who did not like NSYNC or BSB. But one of his first concerts were a BoysIIMen concert and he enjoyed it."If It Isn't Love" by New Edition seems to be played in every black cookout. A lot of 90s babies were born because their parents played Jodeci. If you don't know who they are look it up. Why do y'all think that is? Why are boy bands like BoyslIMen or Jodeci. Is it because they were not manufactured and were childhood friends? Is there a psychological reason. Because most black bands at the time do seem to meet in their neighborhood or school. Are they more real or something? Authentic? Better Vocals? Have different target demographics? Because I did notice that black boy bands were not targeted towards teenage girls. Not even black teenage girls. Boy bands like Jodeci targeted audience towards black adults or R&B fans of any race. I just thought it was interesting.

I disagree with the conclusion of the video: first of all, why not being in a boyband anymore is a testament to the performer's talent? Doesn't this mean that it is taken for granted that, somehow, boybands are less valuable than a single performer because of all the stereotypes and prejudice that are attached to them? Also, teenage girls' agency is never taken into account. It is taken for granted that they are victims of a system that exploits their hormones or whatever, as in they are not capable of liking an artist exactly because of that because they like their music/performance, etc. Imho, the reason why men tend to hate boybands so much is that boybands are created taking into account the female gaze not the male one. Once The Beatles started to present themselves in a less "pretty fashion" (therefore, "dissociating themselves symbolically" from their female audience) they were coincidently recognized by the male-dominated music industry. I don't know. It seems to me that the explanation, at the end of the day, is mostly misogyny and that men, generally speaking, tend to like men.

As a kpop fan (not stan bc the fandoms are toxic as hell), I’ve personally seen a lot of hate on twitter. Most of the people who I’ve seen hate on kpop groups (the boy ones) are soccer stans who love to use the xenophobic “they look like girls!”. Most of it is trying to emasculate and feminise these men to try and “one up” or “prove they’re better” than them. Also, a kpop group that has more male than female fans is Twice. The gender ratio for their fans is pretty even.

This is baffling to me cuz im a guy that’s been into kpop for over a year now and i am so damn incredibly invested into the whole franchise that is kpop. Im now somewhat blind towards the anti sentiment of kpop but i realized it just seemed to just be pure immaturity stemming from fragile masculinity and a bit of deeprooted homosexuality. Basically to my understanding i just think that almost every single guy hates boybands because they are, subconsciously, wayyy too afraid of stepping out or not conforming to the societal/gender norms of society, so they then become defensive and eventually rationalize that they need to verbally attack them instead in order to devalue them in their own brain and see themselves as higher than them in terms of value.

I would love to see you make a video about misogyny as a whole. I think it'll be eye-opening for many

I am an ARMY (BTS fan) and I think racism, xenophobia and superiority complex play a big part. Edit: I want to expand this comment. I'll only speak about BTS because I don't know any other boyband. As an army I've often seen that people cherry pick some immature fans and some attention seeking cosplayers of army, and make them face or representative of the entire fandom, who have a population of any country in the world. And thus, we have the stereotype that army is toxic. This is not the full picture. While I agree that there are certainly rotten apples who make us look bad, who are still a big chunk of the fandom, they are certainly not the representative. Any immature behaviour is often called out by responsible fans, but as I said army is as big as a country's population we can't control everyone. But the "toxic" label and "15 year old screaming teen girls" stereotype are obviously the result misogyny, racism, xenophobia and superiority complex of the Western men and music industry.

I hated Boys band in my younger years but once i've give it some interest (thanks to my girlfriend), i've learned to like it. Even if i prefere girls band (it's just a matter of taste, i appreciate more a woman voice than a male one when it comes to singing.) i can appreciate some bands. I have to confess i'm jealous of those good looking guys. ^^' But now i have some posters hanging right in front of me and i just don't care so much. I've learned it's a tough job and it require talent etc... I really love K-pop but it took me time to learn, to open up to new things. I think most guys don't want to open up to these things because they will feel less manly and will feel like they are not as seductive than these guys. (Wich is probably true, come on have you seen them? ;) ) At least i think we can agreed on one thing: male boys bands look better than the girls one. It feel less oversexualised (even if it's a bit.) or disgusting. Guys are rarely half naked, they don't wear skirts or really short t-shirts. I don't know if boys band have as strange fans as the girls band can have... BUT one thing is problematic in this business, especially in K-Pop: how the fan reacts to personnal matter of a group's member. In my opinion, they should have relationships, enjoy their young adult life etc... They have the right to live and even to make mistake if they want. They don't have to submit to their fans and their surreal expectations. They are humans, god damn it ! :/

BTS fan here. When people say things like 'their fans are only teenage girls', it's really hurtful, not because it's untrue : the majority of the fandom is indeed young women. But rather because they mean it as an insult, as if we teenage girls were unable to appreciate music and art. They are basically implying that we are shallow and only care about the looks. That we don't care about the lyrics, singing, rapping etc. Yes, we do like their looks, we do write about it on social media, we do collect pictures of them, but why would that mean it's not about the music too ? It's just really hurtful to be called shallow like that, based on the fact that we are young women/girls. I understand that from an outside perspective you could think they are manufactured and don't write/create their songs. I guess it's obvious I will say this since I'm a fan, but they really do write their own songs and have a lot of creative freedom. It's not necessarily the case for every kpop group though but BTS are definitely musicians and lyricists, every member with his own specialties. If you watch their content you can see how much they care about their music. Again I understand the 'manufactured' point of view because before getting into BTS and kpop in general I thought like this too. I thought, 'they're handsome and can dance, that must mean they don't have any musical talent and people love them just because of those pretty faces.' So trust me when I say this : they do have talent and work hard on their musical abilities. I don't hope for people to like us as a fandom because the bad image we have will never go away. And frankly there are a lot of problems in the fandom. I just wish BTS wasn't so hated and disrespected as musicians and performers. (sorry if there are any mistakes, English is not my first language)

As a girl, I hated one direction so much when I was young because my family would goad me saying I was in love with them when I just didnt care. Them pushing me one way made me beeline the other way.

Its a bit extreme to most dudes 'hate' boy bands or kpop, maybe there might be a minority of them who truly hate them, but for most dudes either they don't really like the music and don't care , or they are annoyed by the colors and the concept that these bands embody...this is coming from a 'dude' by the way.

I think there's something missing here in this analysis. For example, let's try to make an inverted universe where popularists (a.k.a. jocks) are the boybands instead of the model boys. What I imagine will happen is that most of the hatred will come from the Unpopulars instead of the model boys, because 'bruhh it's just too hard to start working out!'. That's because the muscled popularists are the archetypes of peak masculinity, the male ideal of strong, thriving in challenges, capable of facing anything. Masculinity is an ideal for even those 'model boys' to strive for and train to be better. If you dislike the peak masculinity, maybe you're just jealous or you are those people who hate masculinity as a whole. There is also a high possibility for hate because of their rebellious behavior, but those are generally frowned by the society as a whole. As many has commented here, it's more of the men's betrayal of their masculine values. They 'denied' their masculinity for something feminine such as feelings. Feelings and sensitivity are generally discouraged among men. Conversely, girls like those 'feminine' men because those men can touch their hearts. In conclusion, those boybands find themselves in a difficult position among men. The 'jocks' are hated by the people who don't want to improve themselves. The 'boybands' are hated by both of them.

As a guy who enjoyes k-pop, initially just female groups, I wanted to be more open-minded and talked to my friends who shared the same interest and tried to listen to boy band music too. I found a few songs that I liked, but in the end it was still a very small part of my music taste. I get why dudes are insecure about boy bands under machismo culture, but as I get older that whole shtick gets dumber and seems to matter less. Nowadays If something sounds good, then it sounds good.

I hate them because, why should a girl be so obsessed with them? These are feminine, maybe even gay guys, that are celebrities and just make music. Yet so many girls have been drawn into revolving their lives around them nearly like an obsession, but for what purpose and why? I would liken it to p*rn, as the girls that watch it will never get anything out of it, yet despite that they keep being addicted to it because of the guys popularity and looks. And guess what, i hate p*rn. As it distracts you from what you actually should be doing with your life, and makes you instead obsess over some unobtainable fake bs, just like what these k-pop groups does to girls. From personal experience too, my girlfriend was a massive k-pop fan, and i didn't like that, but mostly didn't think much of why she was obsessed with these other guys, until it began irking me enough that i looked through what she was commenting and liking. There i noticed she had been liking thirst-compilations of these k-pop guys, as well as on their official posts she had been obsessing over them calling these guys her "love" and her "husbands" and that they are "so hot" and that she loves them so much apparently. When i read those things my heart dropped, as why the hell is she saying these things about other guys while we are in a relationship. I confronted her about it and she said she: "doesn't know why she said those things as she actually doesn't think those things that she said" Skipping some things, it ended up with me telling her to stop following those groups, and stop liking anything they do either. She still does listen to their music and so on tho, so i guess i simply can't know how she feels about them, other than to have faith in her. But it really pisses me off how she actually said those things and committed herself to those random dudes while she was in a relationship with me. Somehow her obsession went that far, for these random gay dudes that have no personality or moral character to speak of.

Great video. 18 year old guy here who appreciates you for featuring a clip from SB19 in your video lol

I feel like my being a lesbian kpop fan (and the existence of other fans who aren’t physically attracted to the performers) kind of breaks this theory by counterexample lol. That’s the thing with evolutionary psychology. It’s cool to think about though. I can definitely still see (and have seen) men feeling threatened by boy bands/kpop idols.

My opinion before watching the video, based on my own experience: They hate em because they're popular with girls and specially teenage girls, making them incredibly jealous. My opinion after: Mostly reafirmed, but that stud vs investor theory is 10000iQ and way more detailed than what I ever thought, it sounds spot on. Weirdly enough, I was an "investor male", and I still hated boybands out of pure unexplored jealousy and awarded them all the typical criticisms showed in this video. After growing up I now super vibe with all pop and kpop, including boy bands. One Direction slapped, their songs are so much fun to sing in karaoke nights.

' I am pretty sure I can kick their asses ' 💀💀💀💀💀 Jeon Jungkook , Park Jimin have entered the chat with their innumerable & whatnot trainings... definitely could snap anyone's neck 😂 ... they choose peace 😅 so should we

I feel like your argument about some "teenage girl interests" being less criticised is not very well supported by your examples. You cite Harry Styles and clearly he's still receiving a lot of hate for being liked by girls and being perceived as effeminate/gay. One Direction having been booed is very anecdotal (other groups haven't so it's not like it's a criteria), but also Styles was heckled at the Grammys just last February. And overall isn't it just in support of what you say later, that the hate diminishes with the aging of band members and their public? Also I'm confused as whether you include Twilight and High School Musical in the hated or praised media? With the editing and phrasing it sounds like you're putting it with the praised stuff, and if that's the case, I disagree so much. I was a teenager at that exact time and it was insane how they were put down for being liked by teenage girls, and how much at the same time girls around me who still liked them dissed them in public to be "not like the other girls". If I understood that part correctly, and in addition with what I said first, it kinda makes me think you might have (had) a very specific circle with opinions unrepresentative of the group you're trying to analyse here.

Before i start the video, the short answer imo is a combination of misogyny, homophobia and internalized patriarchy (ideals of masculinity mostly). And a quick note, though I'm not sure the beatles will be mentioned here, I think the reason they get a pass is that they are and were largely perceived as representatives of counterculture.

I find it so entertaining that many "men" are so against K-pop artists. Because, in their eyes, it's horrible when a young Asian man happens to be attractive and also creates music. For them, it's the end of the world. These guys haven't even heard the music K-pop artists make, and they're so quick to jump on the hate train. At least know where you're going. I also personally don't understand what's wrong with a woman liking K-pop or boy band artists. I mean, I'm the bane of society in their eyes. I'm a young woman who likes K-pop (even went to a Stray Kids concert), enjoys other foreign media, and gets excited over simple things like that. Like mate, calm down. If you're jealous, you weren't going to get my attention in the first place. Part of it has to stem form racism, because, oh no, a Korean person making music? And the rest has to be homophobia (calling idols gay for wearing a skirt and makeup, or enjoying traditionally "feminine things") and misogyny (disliking someone or something because women like it) Back to the racism factor, there's also stereotypes surrounding Asian men, and just being looked down for because the shape of their eyes is different or because they speak a different language. Guys don't also consider the music. Yes, Jimin sounds like a woman sometimes when he sings, but that doesn't apply to every artist. BTS also isn't the only notable artist. If you like rap, K-pop has incredible raps. I know Seo Changbin, RM, Suga, Han Jisung, the list goes on, are all amazing. Not to mention, all of these artists who I've named all write their own stuff (I know Changbin and Han for sure are involved with actual track making). If you care about vocals, there's vocals. If you like EDM, we have EDM. Just because it is foreign, and by an attractive, popular, male Asian artist, that doesn't make it bad. (Sorry if this was a messy comment)

As a male fan of boybands I found the this video very interesting. Due to my age and location I was mostly a fan of the irish bands Boyzone and Westlife, the later is still touring and doing their first US tour ever in March. I also have tickets to see Ronan keating the main singer from Boyzone later this year. While these are my favourite bands I had (and still have) CDS from basically every other BB at the time from Backstreet Boys to 911 to LFO. And did want to be in or form a boyband myself A line I used to hear alot from guys when talking about different Boy Bands was “I don't like them but I like (some of) their songs' '. I remember going to concerts in the 90s and like there would hardly be any other guys there and those that were, were mostly boyfriends. Heck its still the case now. When I went to see Westlife at the end of 2022 there were very few men at it and mostly boyfriends/husbands. One of the members did call out male fans which I liked, but also two guys got into a fist fight at the bottom of the stage. I have noticed some shows and films set in the 80s and 90s making reference to closeted male Boyband fans It Chapter 1 one of the characters has a NKOTB poster on his door and in The Goldbergs Adam and his brother admit to also been NKOTB fans and go to their concert something which was true for the characters in real life. It was lonely being a male fan of BoyBands at the time. In the same position today I would reach out to others online and maybe try and form or join male boyband fan groups but in the 90s and early 00s that wasn't an option. I do also listen to alot of Kpop or watch it on YT - maybe some of the only modern music I enjoy probably because the sound and visuals do remind me of 90s music but I have a very basic understanding of the scene and do not follow the drama. PS Only found your channel over Christmas but enjoying the videos. Keep it up

When i was an angry metal kid, my opinion on them was the same ol “fake and ghey” insults. Now in my 20s i vibe with BTS and NewJeans during my workouts lol.

I hate Boy-Bands because, according to the fanbase, there is nothing more "feminine and empowering" than cashing in on the romantic, sexual insecurities of teenage girls with an empty perception of masculinity, for the price of having a generation of young girls and boys further divided by involvement with toxic fanbases obsessed with things like pornography and high consumerism, girls who will suffer greatly in relationships because of a distorted view of an "ideal man". In exchange, the industry sells you an empty, uninspired, visual-based product, ready for high consumption that will probably make you sick and forget about it after a while. Women, in short they're selling you a Ken Doll and making a fool of you in the process, and you're still proud of it.

Only 8 minutes in, so I haven't finished the video yet. But the way I've always seen it, is insecurity. The guys in boy bands tend to be very attractive, and girls and women, obviously, think as much. Men generally don't like 'pretty boys' for various reasons, from being insecure in their own appearance, to their 'toxic' view on what a man should look like. You see it was ANY musicians that are attractive. I think Andy from Black Veil Brides is a good example. He(and the rest of the band) got a lot of hate when they were first blowing up, largely because 'they look like girls.' They were pretty, and dressed in a sort of glam rock way. And guys, especially metal heads, HATED them for it. Harry Styles doesn't get as much hate as a solo artist as One Direction as a whole did, but there are still plenty of guys out there who hate him simply because he's attractive and popular with women and young girls. Same with Justin Bieber, Shawn Mendes, and so on. If those artists weren't conventionally attractive, I think they'd get WAY less hate.

The algorithm is pushing your channel back so much, and this content is amazing. So sad.

I think it's interesting how I was into some highlands but then others I was vocal in my dislike of such as one direction. I think, similar to what you said in this video that it comes from actively knowing that the were manufactured to appeal to teen girls because The X Factor included viewers in seeing that process in a way we don't normally see, so ironically I viewed the group as "they were picked because they were pretty and will make loads of money because they're made for girls" and it used to annoy me when I saw my friends falling of it. I think it was that transparency because I didn't tar all boybands the same way funnily enough. But on your point of Harry Styles, it does seem like there's more authenticity there compared to his time in the trip and I've gravitated to him as a solo level more because it somehow feels like his image is less controlled, even though it's probably clear that it is.

I also find it funny in general when I hear ( regardless of gender) of when people say “ They don’t write their own music!” I never understood this kind of ‘insult’. Because at the end of the day if the song sounds good then why would i care if they wrote the song or not?

the answer is pretty obvious. misogyny, insecurity, jealousy, toxic masculinity, and even homophobia to some extent (this especially with kpop) men has ALWAYS never taken anything that concerns women seriously. feminity is either made fun of, or sexualized. second, men are often just a bunch of salty ppl honestly unlike women who are mostly supportive of each other men often compete with each other. toxic masculinity, again they have this standard of whats it to be a man meanwhile women often try to break these standards (especially in today's media). men have a hard time enjoying things women likes, but women dont have a hard time enjoying things men likes. and ofc homophobia. idk why, but most of the homophobes are MEN and i dont exactly know why 💀 and just a disclaimer, ofc not all men are like this but a big portion are. some women are also like this. the root of it being society being male dominant, thats it. its rlly simple honestly.

I guess the closest female equivalent to boy bands I can think of would be Aidoru (idol) bands. Groups of singing and dancing girls in their teens (maybe women in their 20s) who usually go for a cheerful, cutesy and "pure" image. I don't think hardcore idol fans have a good reputation, either. I don't know much about these groups, but I'm sure they are pretty interesting from a psychological perspective.

i love this lady's work.