What do you think of the Dutch Kickboxing style and how does it do against Muay Thai? The legend of Dutch Kickboxing is as epic as it comes. Their elite fighters fight with their whole heart, giving awe to every spectator with their powerful combination striking. To understand how it became so dominant in all full contact combat sports, we need to understand the history and the way they train. This episode is a tribute to that. Free Legendary Strategies: www.lawrencekenshin.com/

Hard sparring the way the Dutch tend to is what caused so many injuries that ended my career when I was competing. My team hard sparred every day and after 5 years I burned out. I didn’t want to fight or compete anymore after 5-6 concussion, a torn cornea in my right eye, fracture ribs, broke nose and loss of smell, dislocated elbow and blown right knee. Not one of those injuries came from my matches. It came from bad training practices where we did full mma with small gloves and no shin guards and ALL techniques allowed at fight intensity.

Part of the success story is that the Dutch kickboxing pioneers were very eclectic. As they were not bound to tradition, they just picked what worked and only kept the effective parts of different styles.

I’ve trained with couple of guys who had the mentality of going all in “Dutch style” in sparring. Typically they would say “let’s go easy” and then suddenly explode. I used to hate that, it only made us wanna revenge on each other all the time. Needles to say that some bones were sacrificed for regular sparring sessions. Going all in is fine as long as it’s mutually agreed and doesn’t “just randomly happen”. If you’re experienced, you can naturally take it but for some it means game over for good.

Can you guys create Comparing video about different types of kickboxing like Muay Thai and American kickboxing and dutch kickboxing and sanda like what's the difference between their kicks and stance and techniques

As beneficial as the hard sparring may be it’s also the styles detriment. Most Dutch kickboxers don’t have long careers and if they do they are highly susceptible to losing via KO later in their careers. Not to mention the CTE that can affect one later.

Buakaw eating a spinning heel kick at the end and just shaking it off is insane.

my kyokushin gym also teaches Dutch style--but we keep the hard sparring to the kyokushin where we can go hard without as much risk of head trauma, and our kickboxing classes teach dutch style technique and drills but with a more flowy sparring style. imo it's the best of both worlds

I just came back from the Netherlands training for 2 weeks heading back in August for a month I love it

As a former student from Perry Ubeda I read a lot of comments that I do not confirm. "Dutch" kickboxing is of high level, but it can be executed at every level. Beginners or amateurs don't spar hard if they don't want to. I do apreciate the regognition of the hard work our Dutch fighters put in.

Another great video, awesome! I'll add my thoughts to the many already posted here. I'm Dutch, have been training mma and kickboxing for close to seven years, train mma at a gym in Amsterdam (grappling oriented) and kickboxing in another gym close to Amsterdam. The trainer is a good buddy of Ernesto Hoost, 'old school' guy. The kickboxing trainings are extreme in the sense of conditioning and mental toughness, the trainer is rarely satisfied and you are always pushed to the extreme. (but I guess thats sport coaches for you :-) Every training we practice Dutch drills as shown in the video, you pair up mostly randomly with others, it can be a dude the size of a windmill, or a teenage girl a head shorter than you. The combinations start simple and are gradually expanded every time, a lot of focus on countering, at least where I train. And yes, ending a combo with a low kick (and then backing off to create distance) is very common. We spar every training, especially when tired, those Dutch drills at high pace/intensity wear you down. We do not however, (always) spar at a 100% as shown in some of the clips! It's usually its hard to the body, 30-40% to the head. Also it will depend on your sparring partner, usually you spar 30-60 seconds, then switch to someone else. You are expected to adjust intensity based on your next sparring partner (age/sex/skill level) The groups consist of both competitive fighters and those who train recreational to stay fit /sharp. The hard sparring you see in some clips is usually guys who are training for fights, there is a difference between gyms as well, but most gyms have seperate training classes for competitive fighters. Here the sparring can be brutal, I've sometimes joined and was absolutely battered after. Of course, sparring sometimes gets a bit venomous, when someone hits you just a little too hard, tempers can flare and you counter back, and this can have a stacking effect. I'm typing this with one black eye, as just this occurred last training. However, this is not the norm!! You are expected to behave respectfully and you can expect a high lvl guy to sort you out during sparring if you keep up being a douchebag 😅 Anyhow, this turned into a wall of text, hoping it is of interest to you. By all means, if you ever have the chance to train here in the Netherlands, go for it!! Like I said, the extreme hard sparring clips online are definitely not the norm, and we have plenty of foreigners train with us and they are always pleasantly surprised. Also, the NL has one the highest percentage of English speakers, so don't worry about not speaking Dutch. Have fun, osu! 👊

I was doing Thai boxing in the glory days. As Belgian we went a lot to Holland to their gyms. To come home battered and bruised after training sessions. Bloody nose, black eyes, bruised legs even had bruised ribs on occasion. Going back to high school looking like that many questions were asked ;) I was a 67kg fighter and sparred against heavy weights wo knocked my out even when I was covering up. Mental fortitude is build which still serves me in later life.

Yooo... you nailed it. Dutch style with clinch and elbows is my favorite. Way to break it down for those who need a clearer understanding.

I'm thankful that I learned this style of striking. The combinations of this style is super effective.

I’m loving this series going into each styles effectiveness and history, keep it up 👍

Duct kickboxing is pretty much a combination if Muay thai, Boxing, and Karate. If you learn Muay thai. You can choose and adapt your style easily. For example, 1. You focus on elbow and clinch as well as knee, you're still doing Muay thai. 2. You focus more on boxing, you pretty much are already doing Dutch kickboxing. 3. You fight with bare hands, you are now doing Kyukushin. Put gloves on again, and then it becomes Japanese kickboxing. 4. You throw your opponent a lot in a kickboxing match, you already know how to do Chinese kickboxing Sanda. Muay thai being one of the oldest kickboxing styles with very old footage influences a lot of other kickboxing styles. Most modern kickboxings have Muay thai foundation built on it. Thats why most people cant see much differences between all kickboxings 👌

I used to train Dutch kickboxing. They almost certainly spar every class. even the drill is a warm up for an actual sparring. In the fighters classes, they spar heavy. Eventually, I couldnt take it anymore. I cant show up to work with stiff neck everyday hahaha..

Prefer a gym that doesn't actively hunt for my head, I guess the approach makes the difference. Many failed prospects of Dutch gyms were probably diamonds in the rough, and if communicated differently could've raised the bar for the Art like a shooting star. Flow like water not clank like an engine.

The Dutch go hard, right from the beginning in every training.

Great video i hoped this would talk about it's history (of which i knew very little) and as usual you didn't disappoint with your information.

It doesn’t hurt that the Dutch are the tallest people in the world. The Dutch are more dominant in the open weight than they are in other divisions, after all. Still, that little country punches way above its weight in producing great fighters. This video focuses on similarities but it’s crazy how diverse the styles of successful kick-boxers to come out of Holland actually are. Semmy Schilt was a classic kyokushin tank, bas ruttan a karate prodigy, Remy Bonjasky was very Thai kickboxing influenced, Hoost and Aearts were brilliant tacticians with very different styles, overeem was, well overeem… and the list goes on. You’d think a little country producing an overwhelming supply of top talent actually had a style that united them, like Thailand or Brazil, but actually, the Dutch dominate using a variety of styles.

As a Dutchman this is my favourite so far. 👏🤜 Kenshin you’re the man

This is why I tell most people to train muay thai! Their sparring is more playful and less risky.

I had one of Rob Kaman's training tapes,,from years ago,,,far out..he's a machine..he's one reason Dutch kickboxing is UP THERE..

Maybe it's the gym I went to, but even though the sparring was pretty hard, it was still very much not the idea to knock each other out. We'd definitely go pretty hard on the legs and body, but if the coach saw you going full force on somebody's head you'd for sure get a stern talking to or a time out. There is also respect between levels. If you fight a beginner you push them, but you don't overpower them, otherwise they, and you, learn nothing. You go the hardest with the people you know well, so you know what they can and cannot handle. With new people you'd try to keep it light until you understand each others level better. That said, I'm not planning on doing competition, I train for fun, so I prefer a bit more light and technical sparring. Luckily i'm going to Thailand soon, and am very much looking forward to learning that different perspective!

Glorious! Thank you for your work Mr Lawrence. 🤜🤛

Always much anticipated videos

I was raised close to the Netherlands and I had a former Dutch kickboxer as a colleague. I was told that Dutch trainers would even use stun guns (the same things that are used to drive catlle in the slaughterhouse) to teach their kickboxers to avoid getting hit. Also I remember the Netherlands allowed the first MMA fight. That was already in the 80ies and German journal "Karate Revue" reported it. A kickboxer (wearing gloves) fought a bigger wrestler. The wrestler just ate all kicks and blows until the kickboxer tired down. Then the wrestler caught him and eventually strangled him unconscious from behind. The kickboxer elbowed the wrestler as long as he had sufficient oxygene to keep on. However, as expected the wrestler could strangle longer with hurting ribs than the kickboxer could use his elbows without breath. It was reportedly an ugly fight and everybody who watched it agreed they didn't want to see anything like that ever again. Yeah, otherwise MMA would be a Dutch franchise.

Hard saparring = injuries. I dont say its not good, but not for every day. Maybe some champs didnt make it to the top if they went for the knockout every single day with their gym mates. Great video!

This was amazing. Great history lesson. Thabkyou so much. Keep up yr great work.

So glad you made this video.

This was incredible. Some insane footage. As a “self taught” Muay Thai guy from Tennessee , this was a treat to watch and the Dutch are such legends in kickboxing!

Love this - it's why I love Dutch Kickboxing and the combos. Don't love the hard sparring but it's hard to argue against the results 😅

Ernesto Hoost,Ramon Dekkers,Rob Kaman,Remy Bonjasky,Peter Aerts and more legends...

Another great video, you are on a roll with the videos at the moment.

I live in the flemish region in Belgium and its practicially the same here. I cant lie that its not effective but only for the top guys imo. I have seen many get concussed and their careers get ruined simply because they are sparring way to brutal, many because of this also get an ego and forget that we're teammates and not enemies. If there is an agreement i see no problem in dutch style sparring but many of these fighters that got an ego will just beat on the newer guys.

I read a book by Tris Dixon called "Damage: the Untold truth of Brain damage in Boxing" where he mentions that a lot of the damage that comes to boxer's brain is done in the countless hours of hard sparring that show up later in his life. A case in point is Wilfredo Benitez who became the youngest world champion at 17 and couldn't feed himself from the brain injury in his mid thirties.

Awesome video as usual! Any chance you could make a video on Japanese kickboxing? I feel like they have a pretty unique style that’s not talked about enough (especially since most people only know the Dutch and Thai styles)

Love it .. clear analysis of styles

Such an in-depth but short video on the Super Analysis of Dutch Kickboxing. Really thankful for your efforts for giving so much details. 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌🙏🙏🙏🙏👊👊👊👊👊

Ramon Dekker's name is still being treated with respect in Thailand even today.

Best style for self defense as well. You can quit training for a couple years but still be fairly effective even if you lose your flexibility.

My Compliments to you!! A very good Documentary. Good Explanation.

I don't know anything about martial arts but you have a way to help me understand. Excellent presentation

"Hardens the body and mind". And calcifies the mind with the amount of brain damage allowing knockouts during daily sparring would cause. Into the trash it goes.

I trained Dutch kickboxing and boxing and had several trainers. The punches as opener and then the lowkick at the end is definitely Dutch style. Really enjoyed the hard trainings pushing the body to the maximum. Although the truth is many times I didn't want to train, but because of the discipline you keep going. And usually you're exhausted after a training, however the fulfillment you get afterwards is definitely worth it. Because of the conditioning your body will be able to take more hits. And with that comes a better defense. You won't really learn fighting if you don't feel the pain. Sparring is not always hard, it depends on who you're against and how much skill is involved.

Always great content from Lawrence! Keep up the good work 🥊

Thanks for the amazing video

As a Dutch I can confirm, sparring was brutal :P. But always with respect and easy on the head.

Very good analysis. And thank you for mentioning Lucien Carbin, one of the most underrated fighters AND coaches we ever had. I trained under him in the early eighties, and he ran a grueling gym. I still benefit from what I learned there to this day.

The wins of the users of this style says it all. great video.

I love the information on your channel keep it up 👊🏾👊🏾👊🏾

The Dutch maritime familiarity with Asia definitely helps. It'd be interesting to compare colonial history with fighting styles.

First dutch kickboxer that i saw was ernesto hoost. He beat cro cop in k1. I was for cro cop at that time but start to admire and discover others. My favoritw is ramon dekkers for sure amd ernesto second favorite

Love the technique from P. Aerts & E. Hoost ❤ Bravo

Haven’t even watched this yet but I know it already deserves a thumbs up! Excited to watch another stellar video.

You should do one on letwei fighting technique..I think it is one of the most effective art as well.

Haha, thank to you, now I know why Dutch kickboxing is so famous which many of my foreign friends often mention. I live in a country where people favor Muay Thai more. And accidentally the formula of striking technique of Ducth Kickboxing is what I currently train for self-defense and MMA. Well, honestly to say, it is a combination from two of Jeff Chan MMA Shredded videos. - The Striking part of MMA techniques for Self-Defense video on his channel: continous punching + calf kick/foot sweep. - Why elite strikers lose in MMA presented by Jeff on this channel: Wide stance for power punches, lowkick counter and takedown defense + More utilized head movement ... Those are focus you learn mostly from boxing training. I think those can be learn can be learned from Dutch Kickboxing too since there are aggressive boxing in the style which you mentions in this video. What a great video, Lawrence !!!

You answered a question I’ve had been wanting to know the answer for, for a while. Thank you 🙏

I can absolutely relate. My kickboxing trainer, Alex Liveti, is a Dutch style kickboxer. He emphasize hard training and hard sparring.

I would like for kenshin to talk more about mma fighters striking

Will you create a comparing video between Japanese kickboxing style and Dutch kickboxing style? The're quite similar in terms of striking but I think there are a few differences like the aggression, the speed and the use of kicks or even the rule.

Great great work. Thank You very much!

Love the Videos Lawrence keep me posted

EPIC

From what we now know about CTE it doesn’t seem like a good idea to do hard sparring but if it’s effective and that is all you care about then there isn’t an issue.

Best martial arts analysis channel

Awesome video. Keep up the good work.

It reminds me of the Bulgarian weightlifting program. Sure, You get olympic champions, but for how long and at what cost? What about the mountain of guys that injured them self out of competition for good? And all of the juices the survivors of the program had to intake just to get through it? Eventually, time caught up with them, and proved that the old Soviet system, or in this case, the Thai way of training is waaay more based in science. Do You need better example than Dekkers? Imagine how much more he could have accomplished if he haven't broke his body so early? Maybe he would even be alive and healthy today?

I'm a Dutch guy myself, and I guess our style of sparring helped our little country to get notorious in the kickboxing world. Personally I don't like the culture where everyone just fights each other, and the new and or/small guys just get beat up by guys who train longer or are bigger. I also train for self defence (in case something ever happens) for fun, and for cardio but don't have competition plans and also need to work the next day. It can be hard to find a kickboxing gym where you can train, let's say, three times a week without getting your ribs caved in, black eyes and a broken nose on a weekly basis. So I don't like the culture too much, but can't say it did not help to produce a lot of champions.

Great Video! I like going easy to learn the techniques,then kick it up some .

RIP Ramon Deckers.

Salam from Casablanca, Morocco Great Episode as always!!! Dutch Moroccan fighters have taken this Style to another level, via their Live or Die attitude. That’s how we fight here in Morocco!!! All or nothing, with technique n flair, obviously!!! I hope you will do an episode about Dutch Moroccan fighters’ impact from the late and pioneer Milo El Guebli to now!!!

Another great video! I always knew the Dutch hit pads light, but spar hard. While the Thai do the opposite, spar light and drill pads hard. The reasoning makes perfect sense. In the states, it seems to become a bit of a hybrid. Drill pads hard, spar hard for some of the same reasoning along with the American impatients.

Another excellent video. 👌

Awesome! From Schagen the Netherlands :)

Ahh finally some credit to Bluming :D Nice. Thanks for the great video! But I'm not a big fan of ultra-hard sparring. The cost/benefit ratio is just too bad. It may help the best-of-the-best to get that slight edge for a title but the vast majority of normal fighters will just end up with unnecessary injuries.

I love the Dutch style. I incorporated the back on forth combinations on my muay thai classes and just call them a "dutch drill". Very cool.

Awesome!

Great video as always keep them coming 👍🏼

Most important thing should be longevity. I cant see longevity with hard sparring. Its effective, but short. So i lean onto Thai style.

The dutch fighters on the international arenas are very tough and strong because of the very hard sparring they do in the gym. There is however a problem or two with this approach imo. First, you are ging to miss out on a lot of potentially really good fighters, who don't have it in them to punch another human hard, but may get there given the correct training and a bit of time. All those are going to be beaten up badly in the gyms and they will never get a chance to grow at their own pace. Second, if you are a pro, you get paid to perform in the ring and staying in shape because a fight may come up in a short notice. You will howver not perform at your best if you have got beaten up in the gym a couple of days before the fight, and your career will suffer from it eventually as the injuries start to stack up. There is also a life after the career has ended, believe it or not, and not being able to function correctly because of the massive head trauma a career like that will inevitably produce or having your joints messed up causintg a limp could not be worth it. I saw Ramon Dekkers at Glory in Rome back in the days, and man, he was not in a very good shape, almost certainly due to his fighting style (and years of mercyless training sessions).

Wow those fighters are amazing.

Wonderful video. Dutch and Muaythai are both amazing.

The Dutch took Musashi quotes "you can only fight the way you practice" Too far

they train so hard thanks to pharmaceutical companies

Love this vid. Absolute gold for any MA fans.

Great homage to Dutch Kickboxing. We've all enjoyed so much entertainment from these fighters. Dekkers is my absolute favorite!

funny how much the Dutch flag resembles the Thai flag lol

The Dutch are as hard as nails

what an education, thank you

Joining a new kickboxing gym tomorrow after 6 months of Muay Thai. I'm pumped

Im Dutch, sparred twice, second guy (towering figure) made me see stars right away though I was new.. Yeah nah yeah, pass..

Brazilian Muay Thai champion Cosmo Alexandre said in an interview Thai boxers train 6 hours a day, while the Dutch train 2 hours a day and still are able to compete in equal footing with the Thais.

Great video as always ⚔️❄️☯️🔥⚔️

LK your videos are inspiring.

I love Dutch style, however I still enjoy it more when I see a Thai fighter winning like klinmee vs hoeltzen or Nolan, dunno why...

Knockouts at sparring.. Sorry but accumulative brain damage never helped anyone.

I was learning my craft when Muay Thai hit big time here in Australia at the turn of 1990's. At that time 'full-contact' was kicks above the waist only and they were fully padded. So when Muay Thai came to the fore front, it was a game changer for the genre. Just like Bruce Lee had an impact from tip-tap kung fu movies to full on dynamic 1 or 2 hit knockouts. Now with the Dutch and then later us Aussies, we were not afraid of the elbow and knee to the head. Back then most fights were 'C-Class' that is more like modern K-1 with no clinching and definitely no elbows. Then 'B-Class' became the staple with clinching and knees allowed -even to the head - but no elbows. 'A-Class' or 'World-Rules' was full Muay Thai rules. Here in Australia we had to negotiate our fights if it wasn't C class before B class became mainstream. A class was reserved for title fights or high professional fighters - a novice/amateur was not allowed to fight with elbows to start.... I was lucky that I fought mostly B and A class. The reason why I say this is to show how and why the Dutch and later Aussies became dominant over all others. The reason why you never saw US champions in Muay Thai was because they banned outright the use of elbows as they considered them 'too brutal'. Heck even the low kicks in the Rufus vs Kiatsongrit legendary match was considered too brutal and 'anyone can kick legs'. Rufus' rother later went on to take Muay Thai and adopt low kicks to be a champion in USA. It would ironically take UFC/Pride/MMA to relax those rules and mindset. SO while Dutch and Australia allowed elbows, US didn't, and it shows in the progression of how well the fighters performed on the world stage. Dutch also had a different system in Europe. When a fighter had fought enough fights they HAD TO fight A-Class... and therefore the training and mindset adapted accordingly. And that's what a lot of toughness boils down to; Mindset. Countries and federations that promote A-class fights also promoted the mindset and training required for it. I remember there were states here in Australia that refused to allow A-class rules - but this was very political due to the dominant martial arts and brand was a certain type of Karate and they used to supposedly add Muay Thai to the classes - it was a debacle with students who wanted to fight were trained properly, and when they faced Queensland fighters, they were destroyed, and the cries was brutality. No, it was that Queenslanders were the pioneers of true and faithful Muay Thai that was no holds bar and was closest to the real intensity of authentic Muay Thai training and mindset. Though we had jobs, we still dedicated massive amount of time to be real fighters. Now all of that I mentioned about Australia was concentrated in the Netherlands. It is why Hoost, Aerts, Dekkers, Kaman and the others became so tough and legends.... they adapted and embraced it completely and earlier than others in the west, and as such had the head start in mindset, and becoming culturally accepted and expected.

Amazing video. Loved this. Is there anyway you would do a comparison video of different kickboxing styles. Like the origin and mechanics of each. Savate, American kickboxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Sanda...etc?. thanks