One trick I’ve learned to keep going is asking myself “if I had to show someone this song tomorrow what’s the one thing I wish was better” then I work on that. Keeps me focused.

Thank you for the wise words! Always good to see you! ✊✊✊

The return of the king. Gregory, your production philosophizing is unique in the music learning space and you've been dearly missed. Glad you're healthy and back to share more. Along these lines I also like a hard stop between my mix and master.

Please keep producing these amazing videos, you are helping people soo much!!

Welcome back! Agree with your points and hierarchy. I inject gaps (sometimes days) between steps that switch between "creative" and "technical" work to maintain different mindsets. "Song" and "Arrangement" are creative processes; learning the parts to "Perform" and "Record" are technical. I add "Editing" to that group as well. Then "Mixing" and "Production" are once again creative.

He's back!! I hope you're feeling a lot better! So nice to see you posting- your discussions address a level of engineering that most KZfaq channels rarely reach. These are topics beyond whether (or how) you can do something, and address the more pertinent issue of how to decide when (or whether)you should. You were missed. Welcome back!😊

One thing I like to do when I get stuck on one element is to move UP the stack. So if I need a guitar part, I might go up to mixing and try and find a cool effect, and then see how that effect inspires a different performance on the guitar. But sometimes you need to go down the stack too...like if you've got too much low end, maybe your arrangement doesn't need that extra synth part. These steps are all interrelated, but they can just as easily be a distraction.

*And when he is most needed… he is BACK !*

This episode speaks volumes. It’s about finishing what you started even if you’ve started a new song every day. Extremely creative musicians need to be recording every time they play just to keep up with life or writing it down on paper. Memories fade.

In summary the problem is writing a song while mixing at the same time lol it's so obvious but hearing out loud is liberating. Thanks as always!

This is the best video I’ve seen on KZfaq for the last 3 years. Thank you.

Left brain vs right brain vs heart vs ego.... Amazing what's going on when we do this whole process. Your thoughts on this are incredibly insightful! Definitely sharing with my two bandmates. Much appreciated! ✌👊

The longer I'm making music the more get to this insight to do things step by step within each process and not to mix it up. Everything becomes as well more clarity and it is getting more easy. Thank you for your words 🌻

Process. Process. Process. 100 percent. Worship the process and let go of any outcomes and you will create what matters and say what's inside you in your song productions. Thank you for your channel and this post. Humbly articulated.

Finishing ANYthing is now harder with KZfaq in the world!! I'm guilty of spending more time watching videos ABOUT making music, rather than actually making music. I need help.... So glad to see you back!

You're dead on Greg. In the modern world, being the songwriter/artist/arranger/engineer/producer is very common and all these pieces of the "hierarchy" are intertwined to varying degrees depending upon one's situation. It's very different than the pre-internet/digital days. I play all these roles and love the blurred lines. What I've discovered is that the "intertwined hierarchy" is a new hybrid artform in itself...which I've wholeheartedly embraced in my artistic workflow. I'm constantly moving among the various parts with a focused path on continuous progress and project completion. It took me some time to hone my methodologies but its gloriously creative, extremely satisfying, and when done properly...produces excellent results. Thanks for bringing up the topic. 😉

So glad you're back! Amazing video. I myself have "forced" myself to release a single per month and an entire album every one or two years max... No excuse, even if I'm too busy producing for others, I have to. You find that momentum

I was loving this right up to the point that you said you are happy with two songs a year. That's not for me and I'm hanging for more Sneaky Little Devil. Nothing else scratches that itch and I need more

STOKED to have you back, Greg🤘🤘🤘

I struggled with finishing tracks for almost 3 years Laying out the broad idea as fast as possible became my saviour !

By the way, your set design and lighting are absolutely amazing, and the choice of the lens (it's insanely sharp just in the right way)

Perfect timing! I’ll be running a recording studio camp at my school in a few weeks, and this will be the opening subject matter. Thank you so much!

Yeah man. Huge words.

Your words rings true not just for music production but for all creative fields. As someone who teaches art the main thing I do is teach students to create a layered process for their compositions because as you say it's easy to get lost if you don't have some steps in place.

Hi Greg! Nice to have you back! Hope you feel better now!

Needed these wise words for an album 2 years in the making. Glad I’m not the only one going through this process. Much love from NC

Couldn't agree more. Collaboration also helps songs get over the finish line

Very precious advice ! now my workflow goes as follow : -SING the idea into my phone when it comes. -Pick up the guitar and record the idea (i have a few presets i made for each tone i like so i don't fiddle anything and just start) -Arranging, composing, playing with ideas. THEN i re-record pretty much everything really trying to play my best and tweaking the sound further to create a VIBE and only THEN, i start mixing. The problem is then after the mix is done i go back and start re-recording stuff that often doesn't bring anything more and that's when i have to stop my self and say OK GOOD ENOUGH DUDE !!

Sooooo freaking GREAT to have you back Greg... The whole world loves you for all what you are... God bless man !!!

The last song I worked on I focused on an arrangement on paper first. I built a Google Sheets template for anyone interested to help you stay out of the DAW while you arrange. Paper is probably best but my drawing and handwriting is pretty bad.

IM SO HAPPY YOURE BACK! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ It literally feels like seeing an old friend again.

The process of mixing is a linear task, whereas the complex process of arrangement is multidimensional, making it a more profound and inspiring aspect of music creation.

It depends where you are and where you're mind goes inspirationally. I find myself now just opening a track, finding a dope midi, then I play perform some crazy shit that makes me want to add more and more instruments or drums, I mix in those drums and sounds where I feel, when I finish performing and I hear some frequencies clashing I then I'll further mix it, add sidechain eq or compression. Before you know it time passes and I've added so many different sounds and arranged, mix & mastered them in a way that satisfies me in 2, 3, 4 minute tracks, however long the song is doesn't matter more than what satisfies your ear. Then when i'm done with the beat and mix, I'll add vocals in, mix and add effects in the vocal track while I'm performing vocals. Then I just relisten in the car and back to the project, I re-mix tracks and add or take out effects. I master it and there it's done. To be honest to worry about how you're going to arrange a song takes away from the maximum creativity you can output because you're not being inspired, instead you're just working tasks, like a job. You might be able to go far with working with arrangements, but tbh, you probably hinder yourself from creating new shi in terms of expanding your own sound or a genre. For me I go in and do what I think sounds dope, not worrying about arrangements, just creating and metaphorically hitting the right sine wave tones in my mind again and again.

Welcome back Greg! Didn't miss you TOO much as I had 218 eps of the podcast to listen to but still ;)

It's good to have you back. Great advice as always. You are right about how it's so easy to blur the lines between each stage today. I have found myself diving into fixing the minutiae before I even have the arrangement worked out. And the thing is, once the arrangement is worked out, so many things can change that all the details I tweaked are now moot, because the parameters needed are different.

These are truths, I will gladly assert that. I preach these ideas to lots of people, probably to a certain amount who may not care. I am saving this video to my favorites list. It has given me more clarity for both myself and conversations with others. I personally believe most modern musicians move the quickest through the bottom two, song/arrangement. People assume that their desire to be creative equates to their skill at being creative. In actuality, it's a discipline that takes lots of hard work, i.e. NOT just expressing yourself. Another resultant belief of this is that you either "have it, or you don't," when really it's more just that people skip the 10,000 hours concept. Anyway, I am a little harsh, but I believe the same philosophy that you Greg are better at living out, to live and let live and just be helpful. Thank you for your great videos and keep doing what you do. Glad to see you back, hope all is well.

This channel is such a gem. Glad to see you back again! For us video makers this totally also applies to the video production process. I often get lost in playing with edits and animation when I should starting from a concept and visioning the main arc of the production. And if you're a *music* video maker.. well 😅

Lately, I start with a sound, record asap, and react to the sounds as I record and build the arrangement. Once the arrangement is as far as I can take it, I explore vocals and lyrics, reshape the arrangement, and develop the form. Once the song is done I mix and add to the production. It’s a very organic, non-linear approach and I have no idea where the initial musical idea will go, but it’s exciting not knowing exactly what the end result will be.

Having you here is always a blessing, thank you

Wow, what perfect timing on this one! After 6 months of learning/trying to learn production... I would NEVER have imagined how my doubts have grown and I'm less happy with my work. Even though I've improved in many ways, I'm less pleased for some reason. With that said, giving up is not an option so on I'll go. Thank you for your wisdom!

It's weird. My most important goal in life is to release music. But I never do.

Great to see you back. At the top of the video I thought I recognised the concept and then you name checked Mixerman. All his books are great reads. The "Musicians survival guide to making a killer record" is the latest and well worth a read but the first one I read was 'Zen and the art of mixing' which set me on the right path. Side note 'The Daily Adventures of Mixerman' is a hilarious account of recording a band and the ups and downs which is also available as a pod cast. I expect many viewers of this channel are familiar with that already but if not worth checking out for chuckles.

"Square zero" pshh mind blown! I don't care what you say, I like your soothing, reassuring tone.... and what you say. 🤟

The part about how things where before recording was invented was a huge, huge help; thank you so much!

Gregory I've gotten so much from your philosophy over the years, thank you for your contributions!

Great to hear your wisdom as always, Greg! Even for those who are familiar with it, it's always important to bring everything back to basics sometimes. Therapeutic in a way!

MY MAIN SQUEEZE, KUSH. BOY DID I NEED THIS VIDEO. Welcome back, you great-old man!

ALWAYS SHARING INVALUABLE WISDOM AND GOLD !!! Thank you and you are the best !!

Great to see you back! we missed you, glad that you are back man! 🖤

Great to see you back man! Love these discussions 🔥❤️

Gregory Wan Kenobi we miss you !!! Happy to see you back and with you wise and profound reflections.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I just fucking love listening to you talk. Your voice, your ideas, your framings, your presence. It's like being lulled by beast. In the most non-homoerotic manner.

I don't do any recording until I have a complete structure. I write strictly on guitar mostly on acoustic guitar. I rarely get stuck. I build the song as I start the recording process. I hire musicians when I need something I don't play And I feel as though those parts will make the song that much more complete. I saw a cool exercise yesterday to where you set up a four bar loop and just start writing something musical and you do that for 3 minutes and see what you come up with It's like an artist sketchbook. Great to have you back Greg, I missed ya!

Glad you're recovering man! Nice video as always 👏

I remember this phrase from a UBK Happy Fun Time podcast a million years ago which reminded me of that coming up in the "Zen and the Art of..." books. It's funny how I can hear this 99 times...and only remember and understand it more fully it on the 100th. Thanks for the simple reminders of the important, complex stuff, Gregory!

missed you bud. glad to have you back. and i totally agree with the premise of this video. great thing to keep in mind

Great to see you back and very excited to finally receive the M1 native updates. Insightful video as always!

I personally don't consider something a "song" until it has melody, harmony, and a loose structure. Merely humming a melody is not a song to me. Because that melody can mean so many different things depending on the chords. What makes me excited about a melody is the way it relates to the chords. But that's still not a song. That's a part of a song (a verse, chorus, whatever). It still has to have some sort of overarching framework for it to be a song. So I guess what I'm saying is "song" blurs slightly into arrangement for me. But it's more like the outline of the arrangement. That's what's always worked for me, at any rate.

Frameworks are more useful than methods. Frameworks give room for each person to find their own way. This is immeasurably helpful.

Welcome King......always our pleasure to see you!

Great to see you back! I've recently been listening to the old Happy Funtime Hours. Any chance of you and Nathan collaborating on something again in the future?

Complete novice here, but while watching this something came to my head that I've been doing the last while to help separate those early steps (song and arrangement) from the 'mixing' step. As its so quick now to immediately record all your initial ideas as soon as they come to you, and get mixing 'as you go' right away, I've started laying down my ideas in MIDI and purposely putting the worst (in my mind) sounding virtual instruments I can for the parts. I build up an almost 8bit style version of the song, so very bland midi bass, midi for the guitars, drums, synths, etc. I've found having these rough sounds that I clearly plan to scrap at the start while I'm working on the song and arrangement, helps me focus purely on the 'song' part of the song. When I can get that 8bit thing I have sounding exciting as a 'song' (tempo, arrangement, structure), then I'll move on the recording the parts, focusing on the actual sounds I had previously envisioned for the song, and then from there begin to mix. Interestingly enough, a few times I have kept in some of those 'worst possible' sounding guide tracks in the end, even after re-recording the parts with what I originally envisioned. Maybe this is a whole other layer of problem, where the crappy guide tracks just grew on me as I listened and work with more and more. Another lesson to maybe work faster. But this process has certainly helped my song writing and arrangement process, by avoiding playing with pretty sounds and EQ/Compressing things while I only have an intro and verse 1 idea down.

With electronic music, mixing and writing happens simultaneously. One never gets to the end and thinks Right, time to focus on the mix. It's already 99% mixed at that point. Changing any one sound more than a few % in the final stages can dramatically throw the entire balance off. Appreciate insight into all the different styles and perspectives 🙏🏻☯️

I split my workflow in a simple way - the first half of song creation involves playing, the second half involves a computer. So the first half is focused on getting all the notes into the DAW from playing an instrument, either real or virtual. What that means is I end up with a well done demo. Then said demo gets refined. Guitars are double tracked, vocals get harmonies, simple string pads get split into more elaborate arrangements. Once that is done, the creative side is over, and from there, it is entirely focused on mixing the parts that are there. No more melodic input is allowed at this stage; now I'm only tweaking knobs and faders. Like you said, the lines do get blurred, but I try to keep them as distinct as I can.

This has helped me immensely, I finally realized how much more time we need to actually have a song and arrangements than to mix. If you don't have a song you basically have nothing!

PROCESS = OUTCOME. I've said this for years. Another great one, friend.

Came for the advice. Stayed for the brotherhood of Gregs. Man, your energy is something else. Thanks for this.

Man, this guy is straight reading my mail. Very helpful to put words to something that blocks me from finishing songs every time. Thanks Kush master!

UBK is back. All is right with the world again. I hope you’re doing well now. So glad to see you back!

Thanks, Gregory. Good to see you back. The word that striked me the most was „resist“. I resist finishing tracks and albums, even though I don‘t want to.

DANG. For whatever reason, the word-association to "square-one" as it was mentioned took me straight back to the PBS show in the 80s. Though I am sincerely here for the said topic of why several of my songs have not been finished, going back into the 90s. Yes I still have them on-cassette. However, I think I had more finished "ideas" for songs back when all I had to explore on the process was to practice and record. Analog felt quite limitless back then. Recording jam sessions from then-on brought so many journeys upon today.

Bro welcome back man. Best channel🎉

Unbelievable!! Man.. I relate with every single freaking word!! Some people just get it, and you sir are one of them. Feels damn good knowing im not alone in these thoughts, experiences and these silent struggles! Deeply Inspiring.. Thank you!!

Completely agree with the priority. I might add song back at the top again as I try to be my own audience for a few days as I listen to the whole thing completed. If something feels off or missing then I go after it. Almost no one cares about my "mix". From their perspective it's just a "song". The place I try to spend the most time with is arrangement. I do all my own playing, recording, writing, arrangement so it's sooo important to keep a good clear head on the finished product and keep aiming towards it. Perspective, perspective, perspective. I love how every stage can influence another. Something may look good on paper for an arrangement, but performing it feels different. Even the way something is performed can influence how I choose to capture the performance. The song I started with at the beginning in my head is usually vastly different than the production I end up with.

A-fuckin-men! I've been realizing exactly this recently...in a more narrow way...but you explicitly spell it out in all its fullness. Thanks for you wisdom.

My god you're really adressing the real, important, meaningful stuff. Such a pleasure listening to you!

100% Before really choosing music, I wanted to be an audio professional …still do. The fact of having the function of an entire studio in the palm of my hand is a creative fantasy/dream/nightmare. Some part of me is geeked about every stage…and called/pulled by dedicated professionals in each of the levels, song through production ,to be a master of each. So, tweaking at any level of music ticks an accomplishment of goals box even though no finished product pops out at the end of a year. I’ve been struggling for decades to finish. You’ve encapsulate the struggles excellently.

Having recently started to attempt to record some of my songs I've realised you write the song twice, first when you put lyrics with melody and a chord progression, and then again when you arrange it and choose the right drum beat/sound, compose all the little fills and counter melodies etc etc. Anyway thanks for making these videos they help me a lot.

Lately crushed on you and its so calming hearing you and I feel knowledge and unstucking from the "rabbit hole of production walls" comes more easy from your words

Thanks for this. I'm in that boat. I find myself getting lost CONSTANTLY but this makes a ton of sense, so I will apply.

Genuinely happy to see back and looking well.

Indeed the Parodical son, very very welcome back Gregory, so good to hear and see you once more.

What you are talking about at the start is me 100 %! I am tweaking and mixing a drumbeat instead of actually working on the song 🙄

Being an artist is such a conveluted, paradoxal experience. Thanks for bringing clarity to it all. Would love to see more videos like this. Take care.

It's always a necessary reminder, no matter how many times you've heard it before.

Man, this video helps just to not feel alone in all that I related to here. So thanks. Will try to focus on this structure because, yea, the DAW search for inspiration in songwriting is way different and in many ways crippling to the linear way a lot of us started before you had recording gear at your fingertips to make you think you were on your way already to recording and keeping committed to a capture of inspiration. Writing songs from beginning to end to know what to record one day when you hopefully had the money and hours of practice and refining was a lot easier.

Great to finally see you back!

Welcome back Gergor, take it easy with your studio revamp! Yesterday I heard 'Self perfectionism is the fastest way to kill your joy'. I was never able to finish any song for many years. I felt they were low quality but I couldn't feel or rationally explain why -I lacked a clear frame of reference for each of the steps that you mentioned-. If I had put that out those songs earlier I would have seen what I was missing -product of what experience, detached perspective and time give- and wouldn't have got stuck in the same song for such a long time. It's liberating to finish and release songs. Even if you spot the mistakes a posteriori, you are allowing people to enjoy your song instead of having it locked into your computer's hard drive. Most of your listeners probably don't have the same 'mixing' ears and equipment to notice the many subtleties you may have ornamented the song with. I'm not saying that you shouldn't strive for the best result. Just saying that if the process is not fun anymore, you need to take decisions fast to get out of that 'paralysis by analysis' mindset and find the joy again.

God, this one REALLY hit home. Paralysis through analysis...Been producing 10+ years and i"m still guilty of this. Great channel man. Subscribed.

What i did to improve my Arrangment skills was set a time limit to 2-3 hours when a songs gonna be done. Quantity wise That helped me get things done. Another thing i tried was to limit myself to 1 single type of instrument (Piano), but a couple of instances of them. This helped amp up the productions Quality wise of the arrangments considerably: All off a sudden iv written a piano piece that in my ears sounded closer to classical music. (Even if this genre wasent my goal from the beginning) i found a way to focus on arrangment instead of mix, by limiting myself to 1 single type of instrument! 👍

F* you Gregory for pointing out my flaws. And thanks for exactly that! 😄 You perfectly put into words my usual pitfall when producing just by myself: I record down a main idea (like a chord progression with drums, bass, keys, etc), I want to make the mix of that early idea sound in the ballpark (add some plugins etc), and then add on to the basic idea to work towards a finished song, etc. And before I know it, I've totally painted myself into a corner. The project is then kind of in a stranglehold of some kind of convoluted 'mix' that makes it really hard to work on the arrangements and actually finishing a song. And then my portfolio is 90% unfinished stuff. But anyway, glad to see you back in health and putting out thought provoking videos again! It's much appreciated.

that's pretty much the process in a nutshell. Greggory articulates what I go through in each of those stages and of course, what most of us experience as well. It's kind of supportive to know that this process of trying to get from A to B is a common experience. But more importantly, for me at least, to know what stage we're at in the journey from A to B.

You're great. Thanks for bringing a smile to my face and laughter to my vocals chords here in my hospital bed.

You're back! We were waiting for you Kush! Hope everything is good. Thank you!

So good to see you back again Gregory! Prayers for your continued recovery and health

I mean, I think you are spitting truth here. This hierarchy makes perfect and immediate sense to me.

Your point about jumping from arrangement to mixing is right on. I have a tendency to write half a track and move to mixing what I have and I never go back to complete the arrangement. Therefore I have a bunch of unfinished tracks.

Glad you're back and seemingly doing well... Pax 🙏❤

I agree that technical problems can destroy one's state of flow. Gregory, one thing you can do, as a plugin producer, to help in this area, is to place a very very high priority on engineering your plugins so that they don't crash (or are less likely to crash). I make plugins, and my absolute highest priority is not to crash! There are a number of formal checks you can perform on code to achieve this. A way that artists can reduce the impact of plugin crashes is to use Bitwig or another such DAW that can sandbox plugins, so that plugin crashes at least don't take down the DAW.

oh boy - would love to go back in time fifteen years and show myself this video 😆