honestly navy field felt good for aa, because it was hard to use but when you got the hits it was a GOOD feeling, cuzz the cv player sets teh planes height and you had to control the angles of the guns, and anyone could do it, but sometiems you just made aa cruisers in that game (you could put what guns you wanted on the ships) i enjoyed that and both sides i felt worked well

In the old RTS system, at least your interaction with a carrier was meaningful, the more planes shot down the weaker the carrier slowly got, so in a long match, a carrier is only a fraction of its original strength. Now a carrier is at its most powerful late in the match, where AA is destroyed, and ships are weakened. I really wish WG took a more nuanced approach to carriers to make them fit the game better, using carriers to force ships together, attacking ones that get separated, being able to assign air cover to specific ships, almost more like an RPG 'magic' character who stays in the back line and is more of a support to their team than just a damage hog. Interaction between classes is really the biggest problem right now, carriers ignore each other, specialized AA ships no longer provide cover to allies etc. everything is so simple and binary just like iChase is saying.

All I know is that when there is a battle without a CV, there is rejoicing in the chat that there are no CVs in that battle.

I’m sure this will be a nuanced comment section...

they should have left the AA as it was, even a ship like the Atlanta is fucking useless and thats an AA cruiser.

When you speak of WG's aversion to complexity, I'm reminded of the times Flamu, Jingles, and still others have called out players on not understanding how the game mechanics, simplified as they are, work, especially if they bought a high-tier premium shortly after installing the game. Granted, WG bears the blame (to some degree or another) for allowing people to shell out money for a Georgia right off the bat, but they see this too and think that a majority of their playerbase is like this, regardless of whether or not that's actually true.

Can’t fight back is the real reason I get angry

I just realized, the perfect way to stop Thanos's "Perfect Balance" is to just throw Wargaming at it.

I have to laugh as someone who loved carriers when they were RTS mode, the small group of us knew this would happen with the revamp and are very happy to see Wargamings choice to ruin our fun RTS carriers blow up in their face.

The game is made for the capabilities of a 7 year old and the wallet of a 50 year old.

I think the fact that WG went after a clan who implemented a proper counter to CVs is pretty telling. "Whaaaaaa?!? A seal fighting back!? Can't have that!"

Exactly, cv players are basically playing against AI while the rest of us are playing pvp.

I liked the old carriers in terms of the dodgeabiliy. it was possible to dodge torps. It felt good both to dodge them AND felt good to hit them as a carrier. Great play should get rewarded again. on both sides.

The first part of the video really hits. Specially since I came from a DD game... Lets go story telling; I was just minding my own business. No-one was capping, So I went there with my cute ijn destroyer. My concealment is top class, I can do this. Or so I said to myself... Ofcourse, I was alright, but then... then came the planes. It was a coincidence really. A lucky guess by the CV player, but as fast as he found me, he striked. I tried to do everything we have learned. Dodge, AA, outsmart him... I was even very angled, the CV was a Shoukaku, he striked me (even angled very sharply with almost 90°) for like, what, 5k dmg... Alright... no problem, I will r--- *Fighter above me* .... I hide, I run, I hide.... again, another strike. 2k. Then, with less airplanes, 1k... almost no health.... I just gave up, as another plane squadron, full health came. All rockets... again... And again.... No hopes, no dreams. I just didnt care. Theres nothing I could do... thats everygame

As a top 300 Carrier player.. I miss the days when I could use my fighters to actually defend my teammates.. all WG had to do was nerf the damage and keep the complexity. But as you said, WG hate's skill and complex things lol.

Carriers can exert influence and set up crossfires anywhere on the map very quickly. Surface ships require time to position and set up plays, and carriers do not. Moreover, carriers do not risk their HP for this privilege. Every other class must assume a certain amount of risk in order to make an impact on the game. Carriers alone need assume no risk at all in order to massively influence the outcome of the match. This is the biggest issue. The influence is completely disproportionate to the amount of risk required in order to exert it.

From a perspective of someone who actively plays all classes of ship, and who played a fair bit of CVs, this video is so true, its amazingly acurate, and realy sumerises what people feel in those interactions.

Ive always said it...if you want to play CVs then when you click battle in game it opens up World of Warplanes instead :D

Agree. It has gone so far that I basicly resign and dont even try to dodge after a while into the game when planes attack my ship. I feel that ”whats the point? Hopefully he wont hit that hard..”. There is no feeling of being able to defend yourself through your actions

That’s so true. Having 3D bombing inside the game and actually having manual aa control is the way to make interactions much more enjoyable for surface ships. Though it completely contradicts with WG’s main idea. Their success in wot and wows is to put every thing into health bars and modules. We’re pretty much playing a magic shooting game using these hauls of historical vehicle. The simplicity is what makes their game popular and removing the old RTS cv’s is due to that they don’t like the strategy and the skill cap which in other word is the complexity of the old system. Now in random battles fighters are almost useless and I’ve seen countless CV players use them for pure scouting. The Cv interaction is a farming fiesta right now.

I honestly think you didn´t understand Flamu properly. He is more or less making the explanation why everything around CVs is spreadsheat based and therefore has to be overpowered. You are pointing out the symptom of their spreadsheat addiction but that is not the answer to why WG is avoiding complexity, it is just the part we can see as players. They made it more simple to get more people, not the other way around. So basically it is completely right to say that the CV rework rolled out the way it did because of popularity obsessions by WG, you are stopping too short with your explanation in this video. Flamu summarised your video with the sentence: "They hit the CVs with the sledgehammer of stupid (...) so that more people would play the class".

Dude I had a Lexington flying circles around me (in Halland) and another Halland on my team. We had a combined 90+ plane kills and the dude still kept coming at us. Scariest AA in the game right? Not to that Tier 8 CV. Literally was making three passes on me with a single squad. Even did a 90 degree turn mid attack run and hit me no problem. Infuriating. I mean seriously what can you do?

I will always maintain that carriers do not even belong in this game. What are they supposed to do with a class that essentially made large capital ships irrelevant?

The CV rework was actually very good in my opinion, as I finally quit from this game :) And I'm not even planning reinstall it, as the submarines will be the next clusterfuck.

A very good point. Personally my main gripe with CVs is how much their presence changes the structure of the game when they're present. The game is just more enjoyable for me when I'm playing destroyer vs cruiser vs battleship without a CV regardless of which of the three I'm playing. Much of this isn't even the impotent frustation of being attacked by a CV, but It feels like the existence of a single pair of CVs cut out swathes of the core positioning and intelligence game play by trivially spotting most ships. The fact you have a high concealment battleship or cruiser is irrelevant and destroyers are of course hounded unless they make an active point not to go to the key areas of the battle like cap points and screening the fleet where they're needed the most. And CVs are fantastic as being a vulture to the wounded that are sensibly trying to disengage, go silent, slip out of mind and perhaps repair. A single CV on the opposite team can trivially remove this option. The "AA tactics" of uh, grouping up and staying within a few KMs together is vastly less interesting than what it removes.

For me, the simple solution to CV hate is just to re-add controllable fighter's. Remember the pre-CV rework, where you can de-plane the enemy cv and have air supremacy? Do that. Make CV's chose to either damage ships or de-plane enemy CV. Bring back some CV vs CV gameplay.

Fair review, and it was good to wait till the end of your video to comment because when I saw the title I was afraid you might have become a 2nd Zoup. Glad your not.

On top of everything you said there is one more thing that I think that needs to change. Constant spotting by the cv. The spotting needs to stay on the mini map only, so players can feel safer to position forward and not get deleted in the very beginning by the enemy team cause they were spotted by the cv.

But the DD's gotta do 10 Things at once

Waiting for the CV players to come up with the solution: "Just dodge", like in most other videos criticizing CV and AA system....

Surface ships is Rock, Paper, Scissors. CVs are Spock. Only in this game Spock beats Rock, Spock beats Paper and Spock beats Scissors.

Hey Chase great argument, thumbs up. who is not pissed of if he is starting battle and sees its a carrier involved. its just fun off for most of the players involved. WG seems to realize the problem slow as they are, current CW season no cv and kots stays out of cv for now too.

Now, I’ve never been big on carriers anyways, when I wanna fly planes I get a flight sim, but that’s a different story. The thing I’ve never understood is: On every ship you have a max range of your guns. A thing that is essentially nonexistent for cv. You could park in one corner of the map, and hit (read: shoot at) an enemy ship in the corner diagonally across. It may take time to get there, but it’s doable. Why not give the planes a max range, maybe they can only fly away so and so far from the carrier one way within a certain timespan, before they have to turn back and refuel/lose radio contact to the CV or whatever. As it is right now it’s like not only can you do next to nothing against it, you’re literally nowhere „safe“.

Alternate title: Ichase uses logical thinking and statistics to break down WOWS and its shitshows...

2:52 "The real frustration is the fact that you cannot fight back." I don't think there could possibly be a better clip for this sentence than the one you used, attacking two ships that both have literally no AA.

Ok, I watched this all the way through and heard you out as you suggested, and why can’t it be both? Why can’t it be that WG programs games in the way they do because they think their player base are idiots, AND they’re trying to justify a lot of time and money spent reworking CV’s? I feel like this was less of some things Flamu might have gotten wrong, and more of a “well it’s that and it’s this, this, and this, and here are some suggestions to fix it and this is why you feel like you do” type of a video. I honestly find you both to be equally correct, just for different reasons.

World of Spreadsheets

It's the result of trying to counter Player-controlled planes with IA controlled AA Also except some good AA ships, the rest is Meh I've seen a lot of cv's just dropping within 3-4 ships and it was like "okay, here comes again... and again... and again... and again..." until one was blown up, and not to mention the fact you are spotted the whole time and getting shot by half of the enemy team

To be fair to WG on the "it's too complicated" bit... I really, REEEEEEEEALLY do find myself wondering how about half of the playerbase manages to both work a mouse and continue to BREATHE at the same time. So there just might be a little bit of something to that!

Well when a DD gets attacked by rocketlauncher with one squadron 2x attacks half HP melt and than to say CV is not OP no way!

Seems to me that the last ship alive on a losing team is ALWAYS their carrier.

Still pretty much haven't touched the game again after such a long time, though I am glad that you still care and address these issues! Btw, how's school treating ya ?

I'd say having a decreased action radius/range for planes too could help quite a bit, so if the carrier is camping in a corner, the farther parts of the map would be unreachable, thus forcing the player to take risks getting closer to the surface battle. The range of surface ships is limited already compared to the real life ones, why should planes reach 100% of the map without moving the ship around a bit?

let's not forget stuff like recalling planes so they don't get hurt, AP bombs, cv's not able to get really deplaned and soforth...

As a CV main, this is one of the best and most nuanced discussions of carriers that I have watched.

Once more: WG are doing their utmost in order to destroy what could be the most wonderful game on the planet. And they will succeed.

Another major problem is that Cv's can spot enemy ships whenever they want unless they hide in A smoke screen. That ability to spot anyone anywhere is blatantly overpowered. And I amongst others that I have seen mention in comments on many other videos/forums/etc. is to have carrier planes spot enemies for their teammates ONLY by the minimap.

WG really think they're dealing with a bunch of 12 years old that start playing video game for the first time. A shame tbh

Nope, on my list of issues with CV's that hardly even registers. My biggest problems... plane spotting, not only do I have to try to dodge planes doing 200kts the planes are spotting me for the entire enemy team. Ships that have such poor AA ratings that CVs can just linger forever over them with no risk of dropping planes... Hell the new Agincourt BB has ZERO AA on it. No AA on a ship in todays meta. /facepalm Then you have fun issues that the current MM disaster creates like T8 CVs against T6 ships. Not only is the AA a complete joke at that tier, a tier 8 CV can absolutely devastate a tier 6 ship. Ever have a T8 knock 1/3 of your health off in a BB (unrepairable AP damage to boot 90 seconds into a game, fun stuff!). Then you have the fact CVs are a coddled class. Only class in the game that can't be detonated, can't be burn down, the list goes on. So yeah on my list of reasons not having an active AA mode that distracts me from fighting other ships every time a CV comes to pester me every 45 seconds isn't high up on the list.

Without needing to suffer yet another rework, WG can improve the quality of the game by making planes a finite resource and increasing squadron reload times so that a ship that had just suffered an airstrike from a full squadron has time to shift course and relocate before the next squadron is overhead.

My problem with carriers is the spotting it provides. Not only o you have to dodge their bombs and torpedoes and rockets but as CV provides direct vision on you, you have to dodge all incoming fire too. Furthermore removing all the fatalities which historically plagued carriers like fires and not being able to launch planes while ablaze, explosions, the possibility to deplete the airwing, the short space needed to lauch torpedoes (whereas before a ship could sail close to an island and avoir being torpedoed) makes the class just dumb.

My resentment for CV's aside, I'll concede the point that simplified mechanics have led us to this horrendous state of the game where two of the most reviled things in the game; HE spam and CV's, are simply a symptom of a larger disease. In this case, it the lack of respect that Wargaming has for their audience/consumer base. Think about it; they desire our money, but for the most part disregard us as anything except either a faceless mob to be placated by shiny toys (that don't always work the way they intended), or as a herd of foolish cash cattle to be milked at will (think Puerto Rico and Santa Containers). The bigger problem is that, we the player base, are complicit in this to a lesser or greater degree. Wargaming only does what they are empowered to do. Regardless of outrage or controversy, people still buy premium time, still buy premium ships, still buy doubloons, etc, and they thereby feed the monster that we have created. Remember what the game used to be like? I used to complain about carriers back then, but even as I resented their effectiveness, I respected them because I *knew* that it took skill to pull off what they did. They could pull off the "Hand of God" act simply because they were *that* GOOD, as opposed to nowadays where your average carrier player is capable of handing your ass to you simply because the game has been simplified for them, and for us. In order to correct the game, we'll need to first correct our collective mentality, the mentality that has helped dig us into this pit. If Wargaming is ever going to respect us, as players or as people, we must first re-learn what it is to respect ourselves and each other.

3D plane movement opens up a lot of options with varying impacts on everyone's play. For starters, I still believe that the primary counter to CV should be CV. WG aren't necessarily wrong that adding manual AA would be another significant thing for surface ships to manage, but the answer is sitting right there: make CVs fight each other more. Give planes machine guns to shoot down enemy squadrons for air superiority. Make fighters a squadron that specialize in counter-plane fighting. A game without CVs plays very different from a game with CVs, but the difference would be less extreme if the CVs had to focus more on each other than farming damage against surface ships. But with or without the above, they should add in 3D movement. High flying planes can be harder to detect, but are less effective at spotting and take longer to attack. Middle altitude--currently the *only* altitude--can be much better at spotting and more prepared for attack runs, but they are also more detectable and easier to hit with AA fire. Just those two levels give CV players a simple choice. "Do I stick in spotting/attack altitude, or do I need to fly higher to save my planes?" Better CV players will know the best choice for the situation, and surface ships get an edge so they can continue focusing on the enemy surface ships. If you add in a low altitude, now you have to work out plane damage numbers--since low is way better for torpedo bombers--but you can stick with the detectability mechanic. Low-flying planes are harder to detect, but also have limited vision. They might avoid some AA fire, but can be particularly vulnerable to AA crossfire. Moving back to attack mechanics, this could make dive bombers really interesting. Let them have great damage potential, but only if they start an attack from high altitude. Then also make it (even) harder to change direction after starting a bombing run, and surface ships potentially have more time to change course, and this all leaves dive bombers in effective AA range for longer, so the likelihood of getting a full damage run is low. Now you have a skill for better players to master in both CV and surface gameplay.

Remove CVs, Remove Subs

Flamu indeed mentioned the oversimplification of things especially on the side of the CV. he mentioned about how the detonation mechanic on CV has been removed how the damage control has been extended to a whole minute and ailment such as flooding and fire only lasting 5 seconds. I think he ended up mentioning that this is a change that is geared towards newer players as it would make it easier for them to pick up the game on the cost of the existing playerbase's satisfaction

I feel like they're killing the game for 85% of the playerbase, to please 15% of it. It's rather senseless.

Agree with what you say, however nothing you state here makes Flamu any less than 100% accurate, you are just disusing solutions.

I honestly (as someone who used to play CV's) didn't like the rework at all. The old RTS model was much better, especially since you actually had a decent way of "playing defence" and using your fighters to protect other ships, in a way you just can't now.

The problem is cvs don't belong in the game in the first place

I find the main problem is the air spotting. Nothing more frustrating then a plan keeping you spotted while their whole team shoots at you.

And what do you say to DD players? You're toast against a determined CV with or without manual AA. CV's (and subs) should just get their own mode against other player CVs (and subs). No CV games are the best games right now and always will be.

well i just started the video so CV's REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE , more to follow.

Former typhoon league player; thank you for hitting the nail on the head. And it's fundamentally impossible to balance, in part because some ships (mostly destroyers) will never have good counterplay. Even if the CV never hits the destroyer, there's no planes killed, and the destroyer is forced to dodge and be spotted endlessly instead of anything engaging. And more to add insult to injury, the WASDing a destroyer has to to is highly distracting if you're trying to aim high RoF guns (e.g. Russian destroyers that don't care about being spotted as much).

You're correct. Which leads us to the final conclusion. CVs don't belong in an arcade game for naval warfare.

I just want to say that I still love this game, sad that so many people disagree

I don't want the carrier player to have fun, I want them to not be in the game. Full stop.

I actually think Potato Quality has the best point. Fundamentally the issue with CV's is that they exist in a game designed for surface ship combat. As a result they are OP because of how they operate. They can scout, deal damage, create crossfires and control objectives better than every other class. And of course from a surface ship players perspective you do not enjoy getting dropped. It doesnt feel rewarding, theres no real options from a surface player outside of huddling in together for group AA or praying that the CV is incompetent. Youre stuck either exposing your side to the enemy or giving free crossfires to the CV. Your AA always feels anemic even when you do shoot down planes. Then most cv players feel like if AA does get buffed its too hard to strike ships. The most honest answer here is that CV's are a square peg in a round hole. They dont belong in the game for how it was designed, they were rammed through and the more we try to make it fit the more fucked up it seems to get.

Interesting addition to Flamu's vid and I believe you partially correct, too. Yet, most players don't want to invest in too much complexity, either. I still think that a more realistic nerf, primarily of the highest tier carriers, would solve the problem. No torpedo bomber ever had the ability to carry two torps (with the exception of Catalina, which wasn't desighned as s TB). If ships like the FDR couldn't make multiple passes droping 8 torps a pass, that would ease some of the issues. In like manner, while the 5/6" rockets of ww2 had great explosive power, they didn't have great penatrating power. They certainly weren't going to penetrating deeply into any ship larger than a DD; removing citadels here would also be more realistic and relieve some of the angst.

Just easy balans the CVs. „Fuel“ so you can just be x ammount in the air. With cpt. skills you can stay longer in the air or you have to drive your carrier nearer to the front. Spotting just on minimap, not in real life. I dont mind the dmg when I overextend but I mind if I get spotter by a 40% clown but his complete team shits on me. Easy.

Can we just have rts back, i mean there was like 1 of 10 games a carrier game and even then there was a chance the cv players were absolute trash. Furthermore, you could defense yourself with def AA quite well, if you knew when to time it. If they just tried to nerf the alpha damage and improved AA i think it would have been fine in the old days.

WG added control for CV players, while removing the surface ship's ability to counter that. See old defensive AA and manual selection. It's like they expect us to play in tight/ordered formation to repel air attacks. They don't consider that the rest of the game doesn't support that type of play.

Hey Ichase, you make a good argument to complement Flamu's, however I'd like to add two things primary: Spottingmechanics. If I'm in my shima (yes powercrept etc. but thats not the point) I do not mind fighting against carriers. As long as it is a 1v1 (or 2v1) where my maneuverability, timed activating and deactivating AA to get upspotted at times and dodging the planes can be quite enjoyable. It`s pretty hard but fun. What's not fun is being spotted and instantly getting shot at by 11 people whom have no reason to know of your position rather than by the CV's planes spottig you. Since the cv doesnt have to risk his ship to spot me (endangering my ship) he should not be able to spot me for his entire team (minimap spotting is fine). Even radar has a cooldown so we can reposition when we survive the strike. You can't reposition from aircraft spotting since it takes not enough time for the second squadron to arrive AND the NPC fighters will spot ships. This is my main issue with carriers. Secondary: FDR... My kurfurst can't even get into range to shoot an enemy before being brutally murdered by FDR's torpedoplanes whom GK has no chance to dodge, outmaneuver, shoot down or anything else... Dead within 2 minutes of the match, while being in the middle of my team, not even able to get in range to shoot at anything is unacceptable. Thanks for the vids man!

CV's can never be balanced properly because they fundamentally destroy the core dynamics of how WOWS games are supposed to work. Wargaming knows this but they just want to continually make people spend money on ships and having to reroll commanders after every rework.

I stopped playing shortly after the CV rework. Didn’t liked it at all. The old system was bad too, but less people where playing CVs.

You are absolutely right about the core issues; surface ships have no actual counter play to CVs and I do understand needing to make the game fun for CVs players, but we are essentially right back where we started; if there is a good CV player on each team, the other 22 players are irrelevant to the outcome and are just HP pinatas. Except now, while the CVs only have one squadron, they are risking absolutely nothing because planes aren't limited anymore. So fundamentally, as frustrating as the RTS system was to play against (and it really was), the current system is arguably worse. The worst bit is, when it's good, WOWS is so enjoyable still. Just last night I was having a few games with clammates and we had some losses, some wins but the rounds were just fun. It's almost like WG aren't capable of admitting when a mechanic or system is fundamentally flawed, that their vision is a beacon of perfection and it's the player base not getting it and therefore just dig their heels and double-down over and over, rather than having to admit getting it wrong and then fixing it.

What about other points like CVs being able to create instant crossfires where you’re damned if you turn to avoid them, thus exposing yourself to surface ship fire, or damned if you don’t such as eating big damage from a rocket/bomb/torpedo salvo. Granted this is a bigger issue at higher tier, but once you get up there its essentially just a case of why do anything aggressive when you’ll just get punished for it. It can be almost impossible to prepare for since those planes will just pop up straight in your face. No other class gonna do that, and it can do it to multiple surface ships in succession.

I'm a DD player and the carrier doesn't even need to bomb me, just fly over my head and spot me, getting me shot for half my health or more. I don't want CVs in the game at all. They could have zero armaments and just fly scout planes and I still would hate them in my game.

The fact that WG thinks players can't handle more than 1 thing to do at a time really shows how little they think of the players and paying customers. WG thinks we are so stupid and it's ridiculous. Guess it makes sense though, since most of the playerbase acts like children, may as well treat them like children. People need to get smart and just stop giving them money. Stop playing their games. There are other games, even war games that do these things much better. There are options, we the players aren't trapped, as much as WG likes to think we are. This is the definition of an abusive relationship. Letting WG do what they want and no one stands up to them. We need to just stop it and move on.

God you express a lot of the feeling why I don't play anymore.

The new CV is dumbed down that even a monkey can click left mouse button in the right moment and wiggle left and right a bit. Which is also the problem.

Did not watch it to the end, before making this comment. Please don't be mad :)

" Manually control your AA so you can aim at planes ' . SO now I have to do that AND try to engage or avoid being killed by the 10-11 other surface ships and soon subs in what is essentially a team deathmatch arena battle. . You really are giving people reasons not to continue playing this garbage

iChase, I've noticed your videos lately are oddly choppy despite you playing at 70-75fps comfortably. Are you recording at a different frame rate and converting your timeline? It looks like this is a 24p timeline exported at 60p

Chip away at your HP, that's an understatement. If your a DD its more like half your HP

Basically all said in this video is pinned in one argument: AA-control and anti-flak maneuvers need to depend on skill. And as far as I know WG thinks players are dumb monkeys and priority-sector is already to much control over AA (that was what they said on CIS stream some months ago). Sooo... Nah.

"You want the carrier to be able to do something as well." Actually no, I do not. I do not think carriers should be able to do anything at all in any match. The best matches are always the ones without carriers in play. This was true before the rework and it is especially true now. At no point in the history of WoWS have carriers fit in smoothly with the other classes. I think players who want to strike targets with aircraft should look toward games about aircraft. Leave the ship battles to the ships.

The problem I have is that there is no downside to bad CV play. I mess up and give broadside at the wrong time, I loose a big chunk of health or get killed. A CV player plays badly, looses planes, oh well, just launch some more because they will never run out. Over the course of a game I loose effectiveness, secondary's get knocked out, I loose torp tubes, I use up consumables, I loose AA guns, what does the CV loose? I can kill the damn CV and he can still attack me (and that is beyond annoying). My AA, even on a supposed AA dedicated ship does virtually nothing, even sailing in groups of ships doesn't actually stop an attack, ship board fighters are now a meme. But the thing that really grinds my gears, the number 1 thing thing that pisses me off more then anything is not the feelings you describe, it's knowing that somewhere sitting behind they're screen is the type of person that knows he's pissing people off, knows he's ruining the game for everyone else and doesn't give a fuck.

Here's how to make CVS more complex but more fun and as a bonus more immersive, you launch your planes as normal you're coming up to a BB. . . 1. You initiate you're attack and you enter a first person mode inside the lead aircraft in the cockpit 2. You start getting hit with flak, the flak itself causes deviation in your flight inturn causes your aim to shift left and right. 3. You use your mouse button to correct left and right to keep the green circle in line with the ship, meanwhile you have your health bar diminishing as normal and you start losing planes 4. You release your payload then revert back to the 3rd person perspective and repeat. 5. That is how you solve the CV issue im regards to making it more complex and yet still fun.

It's a bit insulting to say Flamu is only half correct, he's a lot more than that - you're just using that title as click-bait. What if I were to say YOU were only half correct?

Bring RTS CVs as the odd tiers! They never fight the rework CVs you have two AA systems and no AP bombs. And also have the planes have fuel.

flamu said: "They do the greatest average damage per game. True, but he should also compare the damage done per minute. Because the game play time per game is much higher. This means that they inherently cause more average damage per game. The problem is also that it even feels good to shoot down 2 ~ 3 planes ... Short term fix: "Increase planes x5 but not total damage and also increase AA dmg x5" ... I take the same damage as before, but at least there will be a lot of crashed planes in the sky and in the water. xD ... it will feel like my AA was doing something ...

My most fun match was clearing a weak flank with my Neptune and rpf telling me the CV was on that side of the map. My two teammates turned in to crossfire the other ships and I set out in search of the CV. I ended up with the air defense award with 56 planes shot down and killed the carrier. The best part was that the (bad?) CV player was so focused on throwing his planes away against my Neptune's decent AA that the rest of my team didn't have to deal with him. My 2nd most fun with a CV was in Asashio and ranked match. On a hunch, I torpedo my teammate CV which killed my ship with reflected damage. It turned out my hunch was correct and our CV was much worse than the enemy CV. We lost (fortunately, I wasn't there to experience it). The CV player logged off after the match. If CV aren't allowed in competitions, they shouldn't be allowed in ranked. The MM just isn't capable of properly matching CV players. This is bad enough in randoms. In 7v7 ranked, the team with the bad CV is effectively down 3 ships from the get-go (the useless CV and the 2 DDs).

Dear iChase, you definately hit the nail on its head. That's from my point of view a very good analyses ond the absolut correct conclusion.

simple, CV play is other game, it's not ships, it's planes. Sure, in real it all happens at sea, in game it's another type of game. (WOT, WOWP, WOWS). Same thing in WOT with artillery, and even there they could add planes , ... It's not the core, so you it's always going to be a balance problem. There other games where they mix land, air and even sea battle, but those are other type of games. WOWS is a ship battle game is a small map. And they trying forcing other modes in it. They made the investment, and it has to profit. What the profit means to WG, is what they set as KPI's. This is what the company has set as goal when they approved the investment. The thing is, sometimes you find something that works, some you don't, learn from it, if it doesn't work remove it or make acceptable for everybody so it wont interfere too much with the core. Move on and look for something else. DONT FORCE it

Hello iChase, i think your Title is misleading. It's not like only half of what Flamu said is right. I mean, you're not arguing against anything he said, it's more like you're complementing his argument with the missing half - The fact that Wargaming looks down on their playerbase. So after having watched both of your videos, the right title would be "Flamu is right, but also, he missed an important point - Wargaming looks down on all of us" Or some combination of that in the title/thumbnail.

On a related note but with secondaries, WoWs Blitz on mobile allows you to directly control secondary fire and manually switch between primary and secondary weapons. When it was first released on mobile, I got it just to check it out. I played down the American BB line, which are not known for their secondaries in any way. I got to tier 5 with the New York, and there was this particular battle where a Minekaze was rushing me to launch torps at point blank range. With my manually controlled secondaries I was able to severely punish the minekaze for over committing. He was able to get his torps off, but I killed him shortly after with my secondaries. The satisfaction I felt from being able to fight him off was immense. In normal WoWs, I would be dead. The manual secondaries made a huge difference.

I totally agree Chase. Also, for me at least, the more demanding a game is, the more inclined I am to learn it, it serves like a stimulant to actually do well & study it (develop skill). Do you ever play a game for like an hour or 2 and feel tired? Fatigued? You then have to do something else. At least that's how I felt at times when playing, like I've properly enough I can't get this satisfaction these days. This is the magic that the old games had. I do think however that a more complex game would yield in less playing time and that would make the game more deadish. But on the other side it could attract more players to fill in the gaps. However I do find WG's idea of players very fucking insulting. Personally I don't give a shit about any of these issues, I just wanted to share my thoughts because this subject can be drilled continuously and nothing will happen. Thanks.

So basically the problem with CVs is the fact that they are CVs and nothing like normal surface ships.

What I Wonder on is.. If they limited the amount of planes, like in the Old days. But with most of todays CV gameplay, that wud make cvs to consider to attack or not, and stop the harrasment we experience today. Ofcourse todays gameplay needs some tweaks

Thank you iChase for discussing the details and not argue with a sledgehammer!