I love that alot of people also like to say Qui-Gon was a grey Jedi and it's like no he was just a maverick that liked to be more independent but he did respect the council to an extent and really Qui-Gon just chose to be more connected to the living force instead of the universal force like most of the order was at that time.

This makes a lot of sense but there’s one thing that doesn’t make sense. The Bendu, the one in the middle. He states that he has no allegiance to either he light or the dark. So that begs the question where exactly does he stand in all of that? If there is no Grey or neutral point in the Force then Bendu has to be put somewhere. Keria could be labeled as Dark Side Neutral but could that mean the Bendu is Light Side Neutral?

The concept reminds me of Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf and Galadriel refuse the ring, telling Frodo they'd take it with a desire to do good, but the ring would instead corrupt them despite their wishes.

I feel like especially in the case of Qui-Gon Jinn people way overestimate how much of a renegade/maverick he was. Broadly speaking the dude rightfully believed the Jedi were to beholden to Republic politics, and the tenants of an inefficient honor code as opposed to the will of the force. However, he seemed to actually have quite a bit of respect towards prominent members of the council like Yoda or windu, and was even naive to how far they had fallen from grace if his shock at how they didn't recognize Anakin as.the chosen one right away is anything to go by.

I'm always baffled about the existence of the common fan definition for Grey Jedi. I always understood it as a Force User who practiced the Light Side, but didn't fully subscribe to the Jedi Order's methodology. Even Jolee Bindo, who most people like to use as an example, is stated by Juhani to still walk the path of the Light. Similar to how Dark Jedi were practitioners of the Dark Side, but not to the way of the Sith.

It really frustrates me when people use the first definition of a grey Jedi for Ahsoka Tano. You could argue she’s far closer to the light side than the dogmatic and puritan Jedi of the Clone Wars era.

I always understood the force to be like a pond or a small lake. Force sensitives wade through it. Light side users moving slowly carefully as to not disturb it, darksiders rushing towards their goals without care. The pond being tranquil is the force being in balance, thus the reason why eliminating the sigh would bring balance to it

I don't think the term "gray Jedi" is dumb or anything, but it definitely gets thrown around way too often. A perfect example of gray Jedi are the Imperial Knights from the Legacy era of Legends. Their only loyalty is towards the Emperor of the Fel Empire and they reject the dark side, but don't call on the light side either. Their training emulates this as they focus solely on combat and martial techniques as opposed to contemplating the nature of the Force as a light-sided Jedi would do. To the Imperial Knights, the Force is just a tool to be used in their services towards the Emperor.

How odd, the first gray Jedi I was thinking of was Kyle Katarn. Guess the fandom really changed if Qui-Gon and Ashoka are the first ones people think of.

The Senate is VERY real.

“There are no grey zones in the force and no grey Jedi”. I have to say it… Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

THANK YOU! I get so annoyed when people describe the force 'balance' as a balance between light and dark. Lucas never intended this! In my opinion, I always viewed the 'light' side as the force of nature, in balance, life itself, and the jedi respect it and flow with it. But the dark side is sentient beings greed, lust for power. Using ones selfish desires to pervert nature, causing you to be more powerful, sure, but in turn, degrade into chaos. As much as I like Palpatine getting force lightning'd back at him, I always thought that it made more sense that he was a much older individual who kept himself alive through the force, and using the dark side just simply fucks you up.

I’d say the Je’dii on Tython weren’t as much wrong as they were unprepared and naive.

kreia hated that the force has a will because that means everything is predestined and individual will does not exist unless you force it. as she realized killing the force entirely was not possible she sought to create a chain of force echos that would deafen all life to the force but not kill it. kreia was definitely evil but as she re-trains meetra surik, she's also implying that metro can choose who she is, choose to not be bound by the forces idea of destiny, but also not that the force is always wrong. "If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea." she's not saying that the jedi or sith are inherently right or wrong but unless you understand both you are still a drone with no free will. until the end of the game she is a sound candidate for a grey zone.

"That's just a lazy approach to the Light with a few authority issues thrown in for kicks." Ouch, I feel called out.

I've read that "Balance of the Force" refers to the Living Force (Be in the moment / Living / Healing / Empathy) and Cosmic Force (Look to the future / Detached / Prophecy), both aspects of the Light Side.

Geetsly's: The existence of the Grey Jedi are not real. Star Wars Fandom: THEY ARE REAL TO ME!

If the dark side is "imbalance", why did the dark-side Son exist in the Clone Wars? It seemed to me he was a natural part of the force as much as the light-side Daughter. The assumption that the Light-side WAS balance when many of the galaxy's denizens had wildly different moralities, many opposing the light-side philosophies, seems like the kind of flawed logic the Jedi would have taught.

I think this grey Jedi thing is such a persistent idea because when taking the force at a glance, both Jedi and sith are extremes. Jedi must purge themselves of almost all emotion and must be completely selfless, which is fine to have people like that running around, even if it can be unhealthy mentally speaking since you have to give up a lot of the things that make you 'human'. While Sith is entirely selfish not really caring for anyone else. which most people want none of them running around. Most people fall somewhere in the middle, of these extremes they can be charitable, kind and strive for good, and above all be selfless. While at the same time still being a bit selfish, having passions, people they love, things they want, and embracing their emotions not just the 'negative' ones like anger but the 'positive' ones like joy and love. This middle is seen as being a balanced individual in our world. so people correlate the traits of a balanced person to that of a balanced force user. which is something that most people can more easily see themselves falling into that role, instead of being so incredibly selfish or selfless that you start being self-destructive. I think people just want nuanced in the force and those who use it. I understand the force is supposed to be more straight good and evil. but I also know that I am too kind to ever be a sith, but not selfless enough to give up the things that make me human-like free will. so I understand the appeal of 'grey Jedi. personally, I like to think the force has no sides, no light, and dark just the force. it is simply a part of the galaxy that with the right knowledge/training a force users can tap into it. that is is the people who have light and dark in them, it is their choices and intentions that lean to the light or dark. falling to the Darkside is not some mystical corrupting entity it is you giving into the worst parts of yourself.

The “Yin-Yang” concept seems to be mostly new canon, and I think it makes sense as a concept. I feel like both the original idea and the yin-yang concept work really well, but they absolutely don’t work well together.

In my opinion light cannot exist without darkness, good cannot exist without evil, and Order cannot exist without Chaos, so it is my opinion that Light side of the force couldn't have existed without the dark side because that is the truth of the Natural world.

One could say the fact that living things can interact with the force at all is an error in the structure of the star wars universe that dooms it to eternal cycles conflict and evil that take insane amounts of struggle to break momentarily. It is almost a curse.

Saying "the dark side was imbalance" is like saying "hatred is unnatural". A light-sider, even in Luke's time, has to cut off a lot of natural negative emotions to use pure light side abilities, and the act of cutting aspects of yourself out of your nature makes it by definition "imbalanced". The only way to balance that out is with dark siders, who hyper focus on negative emotions in exchange for power.

Finding a healthy balance between the light and dark side is like trying to find a healthy balance between not smoking crystal meth and smoking crystal meth.

Kinda hard to balance the force while using the dark side when it's basically like crack, meth, and heroine all rolled into one.

I think an important point for this discussion is to clearly differentiate between the two sides of the force and the various factions that aligned with them, ie:being against the light aligned Jedi order doesn’t automatically mean anything about your alignment if your disagreement with them is political in nature

one must know both sides of the force to truly understand the force but must not be over come by one or the other

I still can't help but feel a balance between selfish and selfless is preferable. Maybe I just don't like the idea of a collective consciousness/hive mind. After all, why give people free will if you want them to lose it? That said, I will agree that Kreia was batshit insane with her whole "destroy the Force" plan. She would've created more Force vampires like Nihilus and/or destroy all life in the galaxy!

But they are a Yin and Yang. I cite these as proof a) The dimension with the son and the daughter? That was a representation and metaphor of the universe in general. They were literally a representation of the way things are. Call it selfishness and selflessness whatever. The one is of the light the other of the dark. And if the son represents selfishness(and not the dark as some will argue) then he still represents dark because selfishness is of the dark. So yeah back to the beginning they represent light and dark as intrinsics. b) I cite the numerous planets NATURALLY high in dark side energy. Therefore dark side is not the force being "bent" into anything. They were drawing on energy that was already there. c) The fact that the dark side corrupts does not make it unnatural. Humans and life, in general, are constantly corrupting. We call it aging and dying. The dark side represents this natural side of life energy. The fact that it decays and dies. d) Grey Jedi could use the dark without being affected by it. Being affected by those energies negatively might even just be a lack of knowledge(because the light had been studied far longer by more people). e) To use your own words, being able to use both sides without being affected: That's about as grey as it gets. f) Evil exists. It's not just a corruption of good. It's a separate thing with it's own energy. The SW universe acknowledges evil and therefore the dark as a separate thing that can and is able to be brought into balance.

We can agree that in Canon, there aren't any gray Jedi. But I do think that the narrative loses something when we're supposed to believe that the galaxy far, far away is morally dichotomous. And even the will of the Force is internally inconsistent. If all you had to do was be in tune with the Force to know it's will and the most in tune were made Jedi council members, how can they have disagreements on how to handle a given situation? If everything happens according to the will of the Force how can Darksiders exist unless they embody that will too? I think the canonical absence of gray Jedi reduces the moral complexity we find in our own galaxy and keeps us from developing more interesting stories

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

While i dont disagree with what was said in the video i just fine it a bit boring. Being all or nothing is just boring to me and the idea of one side balancing the other is a lot more fun of an idea. Needing to be balanced between the light and dark so your not blinded by the light or drowned in the darkness. Again this is just what i like to think and true or not its the more fun concept to me.

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."

I’ve always just thought of them like Anti-heroes that not only disagreed with the council but were willing to do bad things for the greater goods Kinda like Revan during the Mandalorian war.

Great rundown!! The issue for ‘light siders’ comes when the will of the force runs counter to the will of the council…. This was Kreya’s issue with the force after having a crack at both sides; she hated the idea of being puppet to the force, but knew that bending it to one’s will was a fool’s errand!

I always thought that gray jedi were like Qui Gon. Light side jedi who didn't really care what the jedi council thought.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes, and you made a few absolutes in this video.

That is the best explaination of the force on KZfaq... Which if you play a "Grey" Force user in Kights of the Old republic you are literally going back and forth btween selfless and selfish actions and that's it and it's really hard.

A lot of people in the comments seem to be misunderstanding why exactly the light side represents balance. Jedi are not instructed to 'suppress' their humanity, but to accept and control it (eg, "we are encouraged to love"). That's a considerable distinction.

THANK YOU. I'm glad someone is finally making a video about this.

Kinda depressing (or liberating) from a certain viewpoint. Either be a willing tool for a “greater good” (granted you can see the results in your actions, no matter how small) or “rage against the machine” that is the force and lose your mind (there is enough for everyone’s need but not enough for everyone’s greed) due to the inherent incompatibility of the dark side and living beings. Light side users being “diluted” (their essence and sense of self) as they become better and better tools while dark side users are “concentrated” and can’t make proper connections to others and lose the full range of their emotional capacity. All in all, seems being one of the rare “chosen force users” is a drag if you aspire to the highest levels and expect not to pay a price to your being. Guess the best thing to do is not use the force or be content with your decent mastery as power has a price (you lose who you were either way).

Abeloth the Bringer if Chaos also know as the "Mother" of the Celestial when she was mortal manage to keep peace between the dark side the Son and lightside the Daughter, even helping him channel his destructive power and even rebuild the world that was destroyed by the sibling conflict. But when she try to be balance by drinking from the dark side "Font if Power" and bathed in the "Pool of Knowledge " to be a godlike being like, the dark side was too powerfull and it end up making her very power and twisted. You can see with her ,that trying to be grey simply leading to her fall.

When most people think of a Grey Jedi, it's probably this character that uses Force Lightning but is a good guy.

I think this explanation of the force here is exactly one of the reasons why Grey Jedi are so attractive to people. Because lets face it this interpretation of the force basically says that no matter which side you choose you are nothing more than a pawn to the force to be used and disposed of at its own will. The only ways to use the force are to surrender to it, and become absolute pawns to be used, or to try and dominate it, but in the end, just become a slave to emotions and turned into an unthinking rage and hate monster running on little more than base instinct. Both sides completely rob you of any free will and to a degree personality. This interpretation of the force turns star wars into nothing more than one big cosmic horror story. So yeah I can completely sympathize with why fans reject this interpretation of the force, because it is a cosmic horror. Because it basically pushes the idea of Free will = Bad, Hive mind = Good. Though technically I wouldn't even call the force in this case a Hive mind, but more a slave mind. Because a hive mind at least gives each individual component mind a say, where as a slave mind does not. This interpretation of the force also conflicts with some of the other themes of star wars as well. Themes such as democracy vs Fascism, Freedom vs authoritarianism, individual rights, equal rights, ect ect. And the light side is generally depicted as falling on the side of democracy, freedom, egalitarianism, and sentient rights, where as the Dark side falls on the side of Fascism, Authoritarianism, imperialism, rigid hierarchies, and slavery. So saying that to use the light side, you have to surrender your free will and submit to some higher cosmic authority kinda spits in the face of the other generally anti-authoritarian themes of star wars. I think this also contradicts Yoda's statement about the force in Empire strikes back, where he says the Force is an ally, a friend, a companion. He never said anything about it being the master over you.

What about the Je'dai or whatever they are called. Thay had some shit about going too much to ashla or bogan and meditating on the other side. Okay, I finished the video, so I guess I understand. Still, I don't think there can't be a gray zone to the light side at least, makes no sense that personal goals lead to corruption to me.

The Jedii of Tython before the Jedi, or the Sith could be labelled as GREY they believed leaning too far either way was wrong. I wouldn't say they were a failure I would say they were betrayed by both the extreme light siders, and the extreme dark siders. That is where they fell.

"We surrender to the Force's will, but at least we don't get wrinkly scrotum faces." -some padawan of the month, probably

Thx for making this video! Nice to see someone clarify more about how grey jedi have never existed.

What about some examples from SWTOR, like Lana Beniko, who is a nice sith with some morals despite even having yellow eyes indicative of dark side corruption, or Darth Marr, whose spirit partnered with master Satele Shan and they were shown to have mutual respect for each other.

So basically the light side and the dark side is the case of 2 extremes. Absolute selfishness and absolute selflessness

Really great video! Happy to see how fast your knowledge is and glad to see this subject being covered.

I always took it its a reference to emotions and passions etc. The Jedi teach that one is to reject all emotion, Love, Hate, anger, affection etc. While the Sith teach one is to give themselves over fully to said emotions and the corruption of the Dark Side it can bring. That a "Grey Jedi" was one who rejected the Jedi's shunning of emotions, that they should be used and not feared, yet also rejecting the siths view of allowing your emotions to control you.

I have been saying this about the Force for years! This has always bugged me about the fandom

The Je'daii existed studying and using both the Light and Dark Sides of the Force for like 10,000 years. They embraced a bunch of Dark Side concepts that the Jedi would later say were innately corrupting like using the Force with emotion, but they disprove the notion that those things are an unnatural element of the Force because they were never brought down by them. Only when the order started to radicalize into sects which only believed in the Light or Dark did their organization fall apart, because they lost the concept of balance and began to believe that only one side or the other could be legitimate. Later on this same process would repeat itself with the First Schism of the Jedi, where some Jedi wanted to study all aspects of the Force but the Council orthodoxy banned them from doing so. When they left to found their own academy, the Jedi branded them dissenters and armed for war, making conflict inevitable. In both cases it was extremism and the rejection of opposing views which motivated war, but just from the long history of the Je'daii existing in peace we know for a fact that the "Grey" interpretation of the Force is the one that actually produces long-term stability and prosperity.

I always found that the term Gray Jedi was more of an insult uses against any Force users who sided with both side of the Force. But I always believed the ideals like the so called Gray Jedi were better. The Jedi and Sith had more flaws, so who knows.

Have an AWESOME Happy New Year, Geetsly's Really been enjoying watching your content here this year and looking forward towards more in 2022

Normally I look at your videos and mostly agree with everything you say, but on this I have to disagree. Their were such things as Grey Jedi in the Star Wars universe. As you stated the Jedaii Order was a perfect example of a Grey Jedi. The Jedaii Order has been widely accepted as cannon. Jedi history mentions the Jedaii Order of Tython. Their existed for thousands of years as Grey Jedi with little to no conflicts within their Ranks. However can the Jedi Order say the same thing? The Jedi Order can't go more than 300 to 500 years without someone from their Ranks falls to the Dark side and becomes the a Dark Jedi or Sith Lord. Since the Ancient Jedaii Order lasted so long with little conflicts within their Ranks thanks to their philosophy of balance in the Force/Grey zone in the Force doesn't that prove that it can work. Remember according to cannon the Jedaii Order splinter only after fending off a great Dark side threat, an outside threat.

What I've known is that the Dark Side is seductive and more or less potentially addictive while the Light Side involved opening oneself to the Force and allowing it to guide you. But there's something I wanna explore with you and my fellow fans, Geetsly, a certain kind of concept: What if… what if a Force Sensitive possessed an iron will? How would they interact with either side of the Force? Like, would they have difficulty opening themselves up to the Force? Would things be better and/or easier when using the Dark Side? Would it even be possible to have an iron will as a Force Sensitive? It's an interesting thought.

Most of what people think a gray jedi is describes what the jeda’ii order was

I had always assumed Grey Jedi were force users who genuinely followed their own way, using neither dark or light side of the force

So we’re just gunna ignore the Mortis arc where the father explicitly stated that balance is keeping the influence of light and dark in equal measure with his children being the light and dark respectively while he was the one who kept the balance. And don’t give me that “but Lucas said blah blah blah”. That was before the Mortis arc and now we also have the Bendu. The father and Bendu show different forms of neutrality Bendu’s negative neutrality of uninvolvement and the father’s positive neutrality of compromise. Can we stop trying to discredit the idea of grey Jedi just because the Jedi were meant to be the good guys. They failed at their job, Luke should have made something similar yet different like in the EU with Kyle explaining that there is no light or dark just the Force and how it’s used. The grey Jedi don’t exist argument is getting absurdly tired and boring, especially when their is more evidence to contrary now as the years went on than there ever was before. It’s stupid. You like or dislike the concept, but it’s in the universe so that just how it is.

Geetsly’s response to the understanding of Grey Jedi: Lies, deception!

It is pretty clear that the original intention was for the Light Side the be the Force in balance. It was later EU writers and fans that invented the Ying Yang interpretation.

I’m so glad this video was a thing. I’m curious on making a fan story for Star Wars where the character walks between the line of light and dark. Watching this is not taking away from the story but adding to it tbh. Thanks for making this!

grey jedi don't just go against the basic concepts of the force, they go against Lucas' themes and ideas (important, since "grey jedi" never pops up in any Lucas works)

I love how this is basically a retelling of the "Philosophy of Kreia" and "The Failure of the Gray Jedi" but without actually understanding it.

Revan? Reborn Revan in 3636 or 3637 BBY seemed to be doing exactly that(Balancing both sides of the force) when he popped up again trying to revive Vitiate into a physical body so he could properly kill him.

Enslave or be a slave? Black and light thinking I say, even, light and dark thinking. Just work with the force as a partner. Take some give some. No need to corrupt, no need to do as the force wills to feel it's will, unless you suggest Geestly, that the light is also addictive.

Kreia was anti-force, not strictly a dark side. While she did go to the dark side at a point in her life and has some dark side tendencies, her stance on the force wasn’t to try and use it while avoiding it’s will like most Sith try to, but to reject the force entirely.

Both the Light Side and Dark Side of the Force are extreme ends of the Force and there was nothing that connected these two force except that they wish to destroy the other, and perhaps there will never be an end to this conflict.

I don't like the idea that force seems to promote definitive good and evil when in all reality there are a thousand shades of grey.

Damn the force sounds like an annoying prick that wants it's way every time. No wonder Kreia tried to kill it

The biggest thing about Grey Jedi is as many believe them to be the very balance between the light and dark. In reality, middle ground isn't the same things as balance but more of a starting point for a force user to choose their own paths, whether light or dark. The Jedi and Sith merely represents them at its core extreme, where as Grey Jedi chooses to be neutral, not doing anything to do any good nor bad to the galaxy. From known Grey Jedi, such as Jolee or Bendu, all first appeared and potrayed understanding the failures of both the Jedi and Sith, yet isolating themselves from any conflict. Seeking no purposes around the galaxy being devastated by the wars between the Jedi and Sith. And thats what Grey Jedi represents: Apathy And as Kreia stated, *"APATHY IS DEATH"*

The "fan concept" came from the grey Jedi robes in Kotor 2. Which specifically said the grey order existed and they balanced the light and dark within themselves which allowed them to always act in sync with the force that in inherently light and dark. Thank you for coming to me TEDlore talk

I believe George Lucas admitted this himself in an interview. He said that to bring "balance" to the Force was to eliminate the Dark Side entirely.

This is my first time watching your videos and I really appreciate that OG Battlefront-style intro

Feel like it was a interesting fan idea but when people try to make it Canon most of the time they sort drop the ball on it and end up ruining it.

I understand that there are no actual grey Jedi, but I honestly always kind of used it as an umbrella term for force users/jedi that were not in the order at the time but at some point were. (Of course this doesnt include jedi that fell to the darkside)

Yes yes yes! A thousand times yes! This perfectly explains what I have thought for years! It's also why I get annoyed when people claim that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force by making the number of Jedi far closer to that of the Sith. The Sith do not stand for balance, only their own desires and destruction.

Love having a new video. Watch your stuff every day. Takes me back to the 90s playing Star Wars RPG with my brother as a kid

Well said, the Will of the Force won’t let it happened.

So, my take on this may be a bit controversial and can be broken into three parts. The first part of this is that we only really see such interpretations of "The Force" through the lens of the Jedi or Sith dichotomy which makes me believe in it being propaganda. This view I also share on many other aspects of the Star Wars universe as the story telling is told through the voice or lens of the supposed "good guys" and having a narrative that focused on good guy story telling can warp the perspectives of the readers. Before I go off on a wild tangent let's get back to the force. As seen through other materials and the Clone wars tv show there are other force using traditions such as the Night Sisters, but many of those have been touched or polluted by Jedi/Sith; like the aforementioned Night Sisters. This is a pretty unrealistic problem that exists as the universe is incredibly old and yet those two superpowers are always at the center of it and when I say unrealistic, I mean that there aren't differing denominations of Jedi/Sith or even very separate force wielding orders as there should be tons, at least one order or way of thinking per planet or system, at the very least polluted by the other two superpowers. The second part I have issue with is the fact that the force is this unknowable, on a human scale, sentience or as it's described in the video "will". The fact that you "open yourself up" to this Will is concerning to say the least and that it needs you to abandon your humanity to effectively become a "vessel" makes it sound like it wants to use you as a droid or a puppet. All of that is from the "light side" perspective of things and as it stands is pretty concerning itself. From the "Dark Side" perspective the narrative just seems off to me, I'm not saying wrong here and don't mean to contradict canon, but bear with me. In a cut scene where Anakin and Ahsoka visit the celestials the dark side representative is contacted by a disembodied voice of the dark side. Also, the dark side users are said to manipulate the force by strong and selfish emotions to will the force in perverse ways, but wouldn't "The Force" just cut connections with them instead as it has a will of its own? What if there is a dark side of the force that embodies the negative aspects of character, in being that when a person becomes one with the force their positive and negative aspects of character aren't lost? This makes sense, to me at least, because light siders must practice sickening to downright evil forms of self-sacrifice and indoctrination for the sake of the light side with dark siders having to channel negative emotions and actions to the extreme to become stronger in the dark side. If you don't believe me then take a serious look at the Jedi counsel's practices of taking very young children and their methods of handling situations in the case of Ahsoka. Which brings me to my third point: The jedi order's teachings. There are other youtubers who cover this better but to briefly summarize what I mean, the jedi order makes it so that Dark Siders (most commonly referred to as Sith) will always spring up due to their abandonment of key factors that define a person such as emotion or attachment; in other words, they would have you abandon what it is to be human. This is shown to great effect during the clone wars t.v. show and movies where they tell Anakin/Ahsoka basically "oops our fault" or to "toughen up" this is also shown with Bariss Offee and how she witnessed the atrocities of the Jedi order in its quest to win the war. The order didn't offer much needed counseling in preventing basically PTSD or other lesser forms of psychological trauma. Another example, which would've prevented Anakin from going deeper into the dark side, is why didn't the jedi counsel see fit to purchase his mother? Or why did they allow children soldiers (yes it was clearly shown in the clone wars show)? There are several other issues such as the willingness to utilize slaves to fight, and the killing of several civilians, to just acting as war generals without proper training or knowledge of said station leading to countless senseless deaths. These acts demonstrate that the Jedi have no moral center in the slightest and as the galaxy's peacekeepers are deeply concerning, especially if you consider how they handled other situations before the clone wars and realize they answered to no organization or power. If you add to the fact that no other group could handle them if they got out of hand, then you could see they were the shadow power behind the throne if they did something the republic would have to accept it even if it were a detriment to the Republic. They could wipe out or cause galactic instability with their only excuse being "I thought I saw a Sith." Before someone says that didn't happen, I'd like to point out that it in fact did with the start of the Clone wars because they knew of this shadowy Sith called Sideous. They were wanting to stay out of the war until it came to light that there was a Sith involved and used that as justification for their actions. The Jedi order, for all its bluster and good guy show are evil as an organization that inevitably fails innumerable times to maintain the ideals set upon them all for the sake of "maintaining balance" when they themselves are the cause for disturbances. Planets without the touch of the Jedi who happen to have force sensitives are fine before the jedi arrive, at least for the few cases I've seen, and afterwards are given an edict of convert or die and then be converted. I don't know, maybe I'm totally off base here, but I don't see the quintessential good guys, not just Jedi but other factions being depicted as good as well, as being all that good.

the idea of the balance of the force being the light and dark sides being equally powerful is as stupid of a concept as saying that a balanced body is one half healthy and one half infected.

There is also this idea that the dark side corrupts but Count Dooku wasn't corrupt. He was disillusioned by the Jedi, the reason he went to the dark side was not to conquer or rule but to rid the galaxy of corruption and injustice. That instance proves that the dark side can be used for good.

Sorry, but some of what you said simply isn't true. The Will of the Force isn't in favour of the Light Side, not by any means. Here is an example: The entire fall of Anakin Skywalker and the eradication of the Jedi Order during that time period was the Will of the Force. It was only through the Will of the Force that Anakin received visions of Padme dying, which in turn led him to the Dark Side and allowed the purge of the Jedi. The reason why this happened, was because the Force was incredibly out-balanced by the Light Side. Lightsiders were ruling the Galaxy, where as the Sith were very few in numbers. By the time Order 66 was finished, it was MUCH more balanced, with few Jedi remaining but also few Sith. Balance. The Jedi simply misinterpreted the prophecy, and assumed bringing 'balance' to the Force meant the elimination of the Dark Side, but that is incorrect. The Force IS much like yin-yang, and a Grey Jedi doesn't mean they have to use both Dark Side and Light Side powers in balance, it simply means to exist in a state of total selflessness, which the Sith and Jedi were not. They were both trying to dominate the Galaxy.

I kinda disagree with this but alright, I'll respect your opinion.

Great video. I used to feel the concept of a grey Jedi would be so cool because I could be a good guy that uses force Lightning. Possibly to much Jedi Outcast as a kid without looking at the consequences of the dark side. These nature of the force videos are some of my favorites. Thanks for covering so much of this topic.

Except the Je’daii had been successfully using both sides of the force for thousands of years. It was definitely safer to just study the light which is why the Jedi did that, it’s not like it wasn’t possible

The light side is the balance of the force the dark side is the chaos of the force. A yen and yang but not a way to bring balance of part light and dark.

I can be quite a pedantic asshole at times. My problem with "grey Jedi" is the use of the word 'Jedi' more than 'grey'. Jedi is an organisation not a philosophy. Even though Jedi are supposed to be light side that doesn't mean the two things are synonyms. Especially not when the Jedi order gets so entangled in politics that it loses its way and gets corrupted. We can also see that not every Jedi was pure lightsided type, many weren't, in fact it could be argued that at the end the majority weren't because they followed politics more than the will of the force. So, someone is either a member of the Jedi order or not, either a Jedi or not, there is now 'kinda Jedi'. The other thing I see a lot is the automatic assumption that light side is always about doing good things. It's about following the will of the force. While a lot of the time it is doing good, it isn't always. Sometimes the will of the force is to take a small child away from their mother, deny them access to her, leave her (and many others) in slavery to finally be tortured to death. Doesn't particularly sound like 'always doing good' ;) That's why I'll talk about Grey Force User. And for me a Grey is someone who uses the force to do what they personally feel is right, not following the will of the force, but without being a complete narcissistic immoral murderer like the typical darkside force user.

If feelings like love and fear could lead to the dark side, we’re the Jedi correct for rejecting these feelings? I always assumed that the Force was unbalanced because the Jedi were closed off to aspects of the Force that could lead to darkness. But it’s specifically because of personal attachment that lead Luke to redeem his father.

Definitely agree with this and I loved how your explanation @ 5:45 echoes what Lucas has said when explaining how the Force works. Now of course no one has to agree with the Author and can make up whatever they want. It's what fanfiction is for. But I personally love what Lucas was going for in how balance is achieved within yourself (and by extension the Force) by self-discipline. It's about overcoming your selfish desires and controlling your emotions to act from a more logical place. Not lash out or become greedy. And since the Force is fed by emotions and your internal state it makes sense why Jedi emphasis this control. So you don't hurt yourself and especially others with the Force. A story about growing to master yourself and continuously choosing the good side or 'light' because it's the right thing to do. I say good side because, interestingly, I don't recall in the original 6 films someone using ever using the term 'Light side.' The closets we get is Luke in TESB and ROTJ saying 'good side.' I wonder if this was intentional on Lucas' part to avoid any dichotomy of light and dark. Also, I've never put much stock in video games Dark Side/ Light Side meter. I always figured it was a mechanic and not necessarily reflective of the actual Star Wars world building. I can understand the appeal of the various ideas of 'Grey Jedi' because it's always fun to imagine yourself as a Force user who can use all these cool powers and do whatever they want. But when discussing how it works in the Star Wars universe it just doesn't work.

I’m sorry but as someone who was deeply entrenched with all the EU stories from comics to books, I was totally ok with the idea of “grey Jedi”. Jacen Solo’s journey entails much of the philosophy of what force users outside of the Jedi dogma practiced. Not just with how they used abilities but in actual everyday living. Now all that said if the “force” is an actual living entity with its own “will” than all bets are off. Balance in all things, yeah. If the force is just that, a mindless energy force certain individuals can access to varying degrees than moral applications really just depend on the individuals philosophy. So a grey Jedi by that definition is totally possible if they’re loosely following the “Jedi” way of doing things. The dark side corruption idea is more just handling way more energy than your body cant handle in an emotional state that just exacerbates said corruption. This is if the force has no “will”. This is what I took from the original EU canon which at times wasn’t consistent, depending on the author.

I think at this point we have evolved and expanded beyond how George Lucas originally saw the light and dark side of the force, the way I see it is the Force is a neutral aligned will that seeks the best outcome for the galaxy and balance. The dark and light side are just two expressions of it. To get the fanon idea of a Grey Jedi we have to ask what is the real corrupting influence of the dark side: The dark side itself or the people enacting their own will upon the Force. If it's the former then a Grey Jedi is impossible to get, if not then it becomes a question of what kind of person said Grey Jedi is whether or not they could reach that ideal.

Hi everyone, I've been a big Star Wars fan for years and my favorite concept of Star Wars has always been the concept of the Grey Jedi. This lead me to creating a fan fiction that I title "Star Wars Grey" and I'm going around a few comment sections to get a few peoples opinion on it, its not a funded project I'm working on, its just a written story. The story takes place years after Rise of Skywalker to the point where Rey would be an elderly woman. This story also takes liberties as it is my way of making Star Wars Legends lore canon such as The Old Republic and KOTOR storylines, Force Unleashed, Masters of Teras Kasi, etc, except with a twist to make it more canon, or at least how I would make it canon. It's about the story of an 18 year old teen named Jayden, who is born Force Sensitive and is unnaturally in tune with both the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, who leaves home to seek vengeance against a mysterious Sith in Black, who murdered his adoptive mother. He would come to meet and join a group of novice grade bounty hunters and join them in an adventure across the galaxy, while also having to defend it from Criminal Syndicates, Imperial Remnants, and Ancient Evils. Jayden's attune for the Light and the Dark Side of the Force allow him to use Force Powers the same way, if not greater, than Starkiller/Galen Marek. Jayden has a teenage punk-like personality which is based on a character called Nero from the Devil May Cry 5 video game, meaning that whether Light or Dark, he will do whatever he can to protect the people he loves within his morals and will not hesitate to seek even greater strength so he can face stronger foes and succeed in protecting them. His most peculiar trait thought is that his child sense of naivety keeps him from being influenced by both the Light and the Dark Side of the Force. This story even takes advantage of a few what ifs such as the fact that in this story Ahsoka Tano is Jayden's adoptive mother, giving off the impression that Ahsoka may still be alive after the Rise of Skywalker, which the movie kind of hinted that she was dead. Ahsoka never brings up the existence of the Force to Jayden out of the fear of him becoming curious enough to fall to the Dark Side, as she sense his unnatural Force Sensitivity the moment she held him in her arms when he was a baby, but she does tell him the stories of the Jedi and Sith as bedtime stories without mentioning the Force. The story isn't George Lucas level, but it is an interesting one. It will involve a new prophecy and multiple chosen ones. This story revolves heavily on the ancient past of the Jedi and Sith and less on the Skywalker Saga. Such examples involve Korriban, Darth Revan, Atris, Satele Shan, Darth Malgus, and much more. This story will also bring in the One Sith faction from Star Wars Legends as one of the many major antagonists. I hope you like this idea for my fan fiction and if you want more details on original and legacy characters, let me know in the reply section.

My preferred method of going Gray Jedi is to drop the Jedi part and pick up a blaster. The Force has too much baggage for me, even if I consistently play light side characters.

My only disagreement with this video is the description of the Je'daii. They lived on Tython for generations in balance of the light side and the dark (Tython was be thrown out of balance when they weren't). It was only after the Rakatan empire came and through everything out of balance that the schism happened and the opposing Ideologies appeared.

I think Rebels put it best: “I was here long before, and will be long after. I am the Bendu! The one-“ “In the middle, so you keep saying. Look, I tried to live that way once. Told myself the galaxy would go on with or without me. But when I saw innocents harmed and knew I had the power to *do something about it* I couldn’t just watch it all *burn down around me!* Some things are worth fighting for!”

Jeez the concept is so edgy im glad its not canon. I always liked that white sabers are simply sith sabers that were purified by jedi like Ahsoka. Makes em feel like ronin.

This is similar to the arrogance of those who claim to know the will of "god." If the force has "will," who's to say that those who fall on the dark side isn't following said will?