The beauty of HSR is in the fact that instead of power creep it has expanded options. Characters have the ability to become more or less useful with every update and game mode. Even Yan has benefitted from aventurine and the break meta made sushang more viable than before. I can see a moment where jingliu rises up the tier list again due to a new relic or something. Also, I've seen zero cycles with pretty much everyone, so let's not forget how much drop rng plays a factor😅

I always thought it was unfair for Jingliu to have so many things going for her when she was released. Gigantic crit and attack buffs, no skill point usage, and good synergy with Bronya. But by the time Sparkle came along i realized that she invested in the wrong self buff stats lol. So many older characters benefits from Sparkle/Tobin like Clara and Seele, but Jingliu just doesn’t.

Then there's Blade with poor scaling & no buffers. He feels like a self sufficient Sub DPS rather than a Main DPS, which is what I think they intend him to work for the foreseeable future, especially with the release of Jade.

The major problem of jingliu isn’t her low damage scaling, but her 100 turn advancement, buffs on her wears off way too soon (unless you uses aura buffer such as ruan Mei or robin)

Next : why speed is everything | The Seele Theorem

Im just glad Jingliu is good since she is my favorite character. I do think it does not help Jingliu has no relic set that really fits her great outside RA.

Nice video. Now you've got me interested in the Jing Yuan theory lol

Basically any character with insane self buffs are doomed to fail because they are gonna be balanced out by lowering their base stats or multipliers which in result will affect their long run with future supports that buff insanely high, but because the of the lowered multipliers and stats they are gonna benefit much worse than someone who doesnt get any self buffs, but has good scalings on skills and base stat, meaning that they are ESPECIALLY stronger with future supports. Less self buffs=more room for future supports A lot of self buff=capped by their own buffs making it hard to break the limit I would say that good examples are JY and Clara(although Clara was good since day1) since they have pretty good scalings, but are bound to fall off without proper supports. JY imo aged really well. Having Robin or Sparkle boosts his damage by half, he benefits from them so much better than most units

Dude the video was very cool. Very critical. Hope your channel grows even more

I think qq didn't make the list because while she does insanely buff both atk and dmg% which are highly common buffs and pays for it with scaling, she gets to use sparkle and fu xuan and eat their crit buffs which at the moment are pretty rare and hugely valuable for the crit starved qq. Also helps that erudition light cones very rarely have crit :(

Those free crit stats are not a trivial thing to dismiss. It is very very hard to get both crit rate and crit damage and a free crit rate character can just invest into a crit damage body and crit damage weapon. Even if you roll very well on your crit rate substats you will still be well below overcapping on crit rate except on the most insane godly relic pieces that almost no one will ever see. Currently her best support is Bronya but she is not perfect for her because the buffs do not last. Not until E6 does Bronya become close to perfect because her dmg buffs do not last for all turns. Ruan Mei is her best second harmony team mate because of the dmg buff aura she provides.

I can’t wait to run Jade, Blade AND Jingliu, the worlds first triple-DPS comp, it’ll be so bad, but I will be having a great time

I think instead of stat/self buff, what char relevant into some mechanics is getting more value. this is why char like Kafka (who apply on DoT or FUA), Himeko (FUA, Break) etc has more development with more support that come out.

1st release i e6 her. the. rerun s5. don't care about meta. she maybe not the strongest but she is the prettiest both design and face.

Ive been saying this for months. Glad someone else also saw the writing on the wall!

Jing Yuan theorem waiting room 👀

Ngl the mention of the jingyuan theorem interest the hell out of me since his rep of being "mid" even though he arguably gets the most indirect buffs from anyone

Also, based siobhan pfp

Bro thinks he's false swipe gaming In all honesty nice vid

False Swipe Gaming reference!?

As a former pokemon player now star rail player, i clicked on this video immediately

Well said, great analysis!

What about specific ability buffers

you forgot the general of high stats, King Yuan.

Does him cooked?

Wdyt about firefly ? Did she going into same situation?

For the record i disagree with the takes in the video, but liked+sub anyway bc i feel critical analysis like this is important and useful

i expected this lol but i still pulled for her bc she's so pretty & easy to build

i will say this as long i can clear MOC/PF/AS with my current roaster its a win my goal is simple clear the hardest content, dont care about can 0 turn it or not, the game give you 10 turn for a reason

La verdad, desde que salió Jingliu sospeché q sufriría rápido powercreep x tanto crit rate q obtenía.. al menos en hsr aun no hemos llegado al punto q personajes viejos son inútiles 😔

They could introduce a character similar to Furina, but instead of an amount of HP drained, they buff based on whenever a character loses HP, and the amount of characters involved, as Blade, Jade, and Arlan only drain from one character, where as Jingliu drains from the entire party. That would be hyper specific, but it's a method. There could also be another character that gains stacks or buffs whenever they lose HP _(like Blade)_ and if they're Harmony or a sustain unit, we might see a come back of the Blade and Jingliu composition. Who knows. There are ways to buff her without buffing other units, it's just a matter of if they want to or not.

I feel like they might actually avoid giving a support high crit rate buffs in future because it’d be a pain to farm two entirely different sets for a character, one with high CDamage and one with high CRate. Yukong’s damage window is also really awkward to play around. Sparkle’s LC and Fu Xuan’s talent give small CRate buffs but they’re relatively minor in comparison to the massive Dmg%, CDamage% or Attack buffs of other supports Maybe they’ve done this in Genshin though, I’m not as aware about it.

What's your opinion on acheron? Technically she has a lot of self-buffs as well, but I'd like to know if her multipliers are good enough to be more futureproof. I know her ult has some of the highest scaling so far, but her skill has really pitiful multipliers (60/160/60) which limits her damage to that window of her ult.

I thought this was some falseswipe 's videos about pokemon lol

I think Firefly would fall into is this Theorem. She's kinda 2.0 Jingliu, her case might be worse than Jingliu since Super Break has so little stats that boost it. Most built FF should have 500% BE, which is a lot but also way pass diminishing return. Plus, FF doesn't have the multiplier herself, it's HMC who provide the multiplier.

I don't understand how trial acheron,fu xuan,ruan mei does more dmg than jingliu,fu xuan,ruan mei besides i only left hsr for four to three months now i come back just to experience pain i recently got ruan mei but i still have only one team that is just usefull against ice weaknesses and with no other supports and healers im stuck at every part that needs at least two teams Should i pull for Firefly? since im using ruan mei with jingliu im not sure whether i get her or wait for new dps

Neat video. But I think one of your assumptions is wrong. You seem to draw a hard line between extra stats and damage multipliers, whereas they both only are numbers. Sure the former is what most boosts are made of, but not only are the latter possible too for futur supports, we already have a precedent of it called tingyun.

Imo. No character in this game is another one 100%, as each each has thier own scalings, kit, nuances. Each has thier strengh and weaknesses. One example is between Jl and acheron. Yes acheron is THE dps BETWEEN the two ( no argue about that part ). But she still isn't Jl. I wanna see an acheron being tanky ( relatively) while having built in cv+hp drain mechanics. And being the enabler of hp drain mechanics ( Jl talent ). At the same time i wanna see a Jl having a built in Final dmg multiplayer ( Acheron main reason why she has a ridiculous dmg seiling) + 20 res pen + universal toughness bar breakning. ( For the sake of fairness. Each unit will not reach hes " end " and will never has hes " dream " team completed. As everyone can benefit from everything. What stops Jl from benefiting from acherons supports? ( same as Jy, yanqing, seele, blade etc )

just saying remembrance is a thing that can total come a skill a unit can use and jingliu and little boy blue will see a little better play making them more effective. it just has not happened yet so they seem extra weak without the rest of the kit that would make them strong.

a 300 jingliu on support deals less dmg than my 167 acheron

wait im so confuse so too much stat but not enough scallings is bad is that the vid D:. but in the vid u refer xueyi as a good example but the rest are bad, im so confuse sry. technically they can make jingliu better if yes they release a furina who can drain the team hp and buff raw scalling which can improve jingliu no?

Dont use sparkles theme again, its so hard to hear what you're saying, the music is draining all my attention

The highest atk in my account rn belongs to robin

The false swipe gaming pipeline

Question, what would happen to jingliu, if they added an shen he or yu jin ?

The only hindrance to Jingliu’s longevity is that she demands specific supports. Which, at the time, was Jingliu’s biggest selling point: “low investment, high reward” and “use Pela with Jingliu and put your harmony characters on the other team”. Remember all the tc’s saying that? Now you’re saying her biggest benefit is going to be her downfall? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on if Hoyo wants to release a dedicated Jingliu support after all this time. She prefers dmg% and def shred over attack and crit buffs. So unlike most dps, she generally does better with supports who have relevant debuffs like Pela or give niche buffs like Ruan Mei. Currently those are the only two of their type whereas there are numerous attack and crit buffers. Therefore you can actually argue that Jingliu is a bit more future-proof than many other dps because she occupies a niche team that has yet to be properly filled. And when that magical support comes along, only Jingliu (currently) would be able to fully utilize them. But again, that depends on if Hoyo wants to buff Jingliu like they have JY and DHIL lol

I think it’s still important to note that yes, while Jing Liu does suffer from diminishing returns, it doesn’t necessarily mean that atk or crit dmg buffers are bad for her. The diminishing returns are a thing, but u also kind of miss out on like 5 other reasons why Jing Liu is actually synergistic with x support. The best comparison I can make is Hu Tao in genshin. A unit that benefits from being low hp and has hp -> atk conversion. Does this mean Bennet is a bad pairing for her? No actually, very far from it. Hu Tao Yelan Bennet Kazuha is still Hu Tao’s best team in terms of clear times and offers very good flexibility as well with Kazuha’s grouping. The point I’m trying to make here is that, I think people tend to overrate Jing Liu’s standard Bronya Ruan Mei, or Bronya Pela team and say that’s her only team because she doesn’t benefit from atk or crit dmg buffers. Her teams can be pretty flexible, her synergy with Tingyun and Robin might surprise some people, and I’ve even seen some ppl use Sparkle Jing Liu and also achieve decent success. Ofc I haven’t really tested that out yet much, but I can definitely vouch for Jing Liu’s synergy with Robin or Tingyun

High stats aren't necessarily better. High stats don't matter in the face of being off element and having poor synergy with the limited Harmonies. But to be real, it's all about element matching. People complain about Jingliu being "powercrept" but they use her in non-ice stages. Sure, maybe back then, brute forcing with her is possible, but there's a reason why DPS's who aren't on element sucks and it's because of the 20% or 40% damage resist a boss/elite may have. I'm not implying that we should pull every 5 star DPS to cover our elements, but at least level up and use the 4 stars and standard banner characters like Clara to cover weakness elements.

The main thing for a dps is a scaling percentage. Xueyi has huge damage buff but very low scaling percentage that probably no support will ever buff. It wouldn't be a problem if it was relatively small decrease but it's 2 or even 3 times worse than average so this 240% dmg boost can't even compensate the difference. But yeah, now she is good for Super Break. Still Boothill and Firefly both are much much better.

I could sense something was wrong with some of my DPS's, and this video was my bingo moment. I _knew_ I wasn't crazy. I never really used Yanquing, probably because it took forever for me to pull him, but I did level him to 80 and now that we have the Divergent universe, I might use him just for fun. I have Jingliu. E0. And, the fact of the matter is, she, like a lot of Destruction and Hunt, is handicapped to a certain degree without her Signature LC, which I do NOT have. Vars put it best when he said that "the LC's are [buffers] support characters unto themselves." I kinda had Jingliu on the bench most of the time for awhile after PF came out, but now I'm trying to build a Jingliu hypercarry team, so I'm revisiting her. Provided you can have ice weakness, she works great _when_ she works. As a main DPS, you're going to be using her for damage, NOT freeze, as needlessly stacking EHR on relics would be deleterious to her damage output. And really, if you're reading this, I implore you to actually use Pela or Silver Wolf when you're using Jingliu, as their def-down is a huge boon for Jingliu: instead of buffing you, you're debuffing the enemy. And the debuff doesn't require them to stay alive to stay in place, like Harmony's buffs usually do. I was legitimately going kookoo with Xueyi a while back, her Ultimate was dealing like 3000 and her damage was a lot lower than my other units, and I was super confused. Put her on the bench, tried her again, and still not enough. I dunno if there's a Break Effect light cone somewhere in the game that's supposed to be her BiS, but I haven't seen one. I do want to be using her, but I am still not sure how. I have Firefly now, so I have a main DPS that can deal Break dmg. Blade is an interesting case study because he's the only HP scaler, and he works best in a team with Jingliu for HP draining in order to proc that talent as often as possible. Perhaps Topaz could buff him, but then you're trying to run two sub-DPS's, and at that point you could choose someone else. In conclusion, Hoyo does this by design because if every character was built exactly the same and needed the exact same gear then there would be no incentive to build multiple teams. I like that the game incentivizes team synergizing, and determining who complements who better, but at the same time it can at times cross into a point of being frustrating to build characters, especially with the relic farming.

is this an FSG inspired title?

the recent Jingliu doomposting is crazy, mine is still easily doing 3-4 cycle clears in any MoC besides the current second side, bcs that boss was designed to make anybody but Firefly and maybe Himeko struggle

every dps will be powercrept

I think Jingliu could be buff in the future by releasing a sp that use their skill like IL but the more sp they consume the larger the buff is

Dont want to sound like JL fanboy, but the take really just scratches the surface. you ignore meta and also dmg formula is far bigger than 2 modifiers which means opportunity cost will always be an issue. Jingliu being low SP consumption char that can stack up huge self buffs she can look elsewhere for amplification. So you get things like Robin + Bronya which could never work for someone like DHIL (which has higher stat scaling multiplier) to act 3 times per AV, which makes 250% skill multiplier suddenly become 750 skill multiplier (basically). Im not even starting on defshred and other amplification options. TLDR opportunity cost for her team is lowest till this day and tho powercreep is inevitable it does not come in the form of base stat scaling. Even if we look at the actual perfomance, Xueyi (a fantastic char I agree) remain a meta slave, where JL is able to bruteforce 0 cycle every moc till this day for mere 2 gold cost (some of the lowest if not the lowest) Once again. amazing vid, quickly becoming one of my fav channels, just think the quality and depth can improve in some aspects.

Bro thinks he's FSG It's a good video tho

Glad i skip jingliu on her rerun lol people overrated her "easy to build" when she has much lower ceiling and dont work well with other support that that tend to buff crit/atk with how diluted her self buff is