Why I didn't do distribution under the slab

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Why I didn't do distribution under the slab - mechanical hub weighs in

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Ай бұрын

Mechanical Hub aka Eric Aune stops by Matt's Risinger Build Job Site to take a look at how Matt is laying out his plumbing systems. They debate Under Slab plumbing and discuss using heat pumps in the house and how to manage that extra cold air. See what Eric thinks of Matt's decisions in this weeks video!
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Пікірлер: 124

@DigitalBenny Ай бұрын

I opted to put the heat pump water heater in the mechanical room within the conditioned space that also houses network equipment, solar inverter, and battery storage. The heat generated by the electronics is transferred to the water heater. No ducts, no louvers, no worries. Use the wasted energy from electronics efficiently.

@TD-zc4zi Ай бұрын

Great solution

@user-my2lq2ul6t Ай бұрын

Why not dump the cold dry air from the heat pump water heater exhaust into the HVAC return? In Texas summer you'll gain a bit of cooling efficiency across the house without hitting one spot too hard. In winter, you'll add a little bit of load to the central heating, but again you won't throw any single room too far out of spec.

@DigitalBenny Ай бұрын

@@user-my2lq2ul6t because I'm at 0.5ACH50 and the water heater is just right to balance the temperature in the utility room. The gains from dumping into the return would be lost from the added heat in the room

@user-tv5dt3nm9y Ай бұрын

Brilliant

@NathanMichalik 29 күн бұрын

Same! It's a great setup that I'm super happy with it.

@gr8finplnr Ай бұрын

Hey Matt! Love the Heat Pump Water Heater question! Here's my answer. I would have a cabinet for all of my stereo/audio equipment/computer equipment (hub and spoke to room speakers). This cabinet produces a lot of heat. I would duct the cold air from the mechanical room with the heat pump water heater into this AV cabinet and exhaust the heat from the cabinet back to the mechanical room. No outside penetrations and the two areas heating/cooling requirements complement each other! The heat produced by your stereo equipment will end up in your hot water!

@spacemanrick2014 Ай бұрын

I like this idea. Have the cool duct from the heater come in low in the AV cabinet, and the warm outlet duct going back into the heater at the top of the cabinet.

@degfamily2815 29 күн бұрын

Add a dehumidifier to keep your electronics cold and dry

@mcookecec Ай бұрын

A couple of things Matt. One, use electrical conduit bends for your supply line sleaves (conduits) and don't have more than 360 degrees of bend in the run. Your video shows plumbing bends. These are very difficult if not impossible to pull through. Two, consult your heat pump water heater installation instructions. It will specify the minimum room size it needs to be in or connected to operate properly. Three, I routed the cold air from my water heater to my wine storage room. Works great to keep the wine at the proper storage temperature.

@disqusrubbish5467 26 күн бұрын

Ah - I just asked above if it made sense to run the air to a butler pantry. You've answered the question.

@williamhoodtn Ай бұрын

Just don't run any supply lines in the slab, only waste water. My daughter's house was done this way. Very smart.

@ALLworldCONSTRUCTIONLLC Ай бұрын

Yea most builders agree. Sucks finding leaks in slab but there’s tools to make it easier like infrared and an electric concrete saw,,, but I’d rather run copper through walls, not a huge fan of PEX tbh… maybe cuz I love copper so much

@raymondpeters9186 Ай бұрын

It's real simple if you parallel your drain lines with a 2" conduit with electric sweeps in the slab your pex is protected and is replaceable I been using this method for25 years I have this in my personal house sleeve everything home run everything its easier and quicker to install in the slab it takes minutes to install pex Jusy like wire You can do this with gas line too Take care Ray

@glasshalffull2930 Ай бұрын

I think you mean ‘enclose’ your Pex in 2” conduit. Great idea and should be code. (Edit: I just realized you probably meant having an empty conduit for a future problem)

@raymondpeters9186 Ай бұрын

Yes it should be code

@Ivebeenaroundyouknow 29 күн бұрын

I think it is in IBC 2022

@PlumbingExplained Ай бұрын

I love the sleeving idea I’ve seen it done a couple times works great

@TUKByV Ай бұрын

Interesting!

@raymondpeters9186 Ай бұрын

I've been installing pex in pipe for 25 years it's in my personal house

@atalkinghead3637 26 күн бұрын

Can you explain the sleeving concept to me? We are getting ready to build a home (slab on grade).......

@raymondpeters9186 26 күн бұрын

Run 2" conduit from your water heater location to under your sink locations one to each sink in the wall right next to your drain line and tee off for your shower and toilet for your 90s use 2" electrical sweeps you can run both hot red and cold blue pex in the same conduit use 1/2" pex it's OK they won't fight. If you have 2 bathrooms and a kitchen sink you'll need 3 pipes and additional pipes for additional plumbing locations laundry or hose bibs hot tub you can have no more than 4 90s in one conduit run install pipe in the slab and pull.pipe later hope that helps Take care Ray

@raymondpeters9186 26 күн бұрын

You can also use this for gas line too

@aquavirari Ай бұрын

The "dorky" sign-off is mandatory. Just like the music. Love it everytime.

@raymondpeters9186 Ай бұрын

Run the main sleeve all the way to the water meter under the driveway

@lprice5583 Ай бұрын

In Minnesota, the best place to put the heat pump water heater is in an old basement. I put 2 in mine and the dank basement feel and smell has disappeared. They dehumidifier the basement wonderfully.

@ericroot8475 22 күн бұрын

same in Vermont. we could use a second one. 😂 I spend a lot more time down there in the winter than in the summer, and I don't notice the cold air, but if Matt were super worried about it, he could duct it out to a heat exchanger in the garage or outside, and not depressurize the envelope.

@lprice5583 22 күн бұрын

@@ericroot8475 Agreed.

@jamesnichols7507 29 күн бұрын

In Texas after the Deep Freeze of 2021 I would never install an outdoor silcock with the plumbing in the wall but now I’m sold on installing a Frostproof Yard Hydrant with a bury depth of 2 feet.

@billceve9830 29 күн бұрын

and you can duct warmer moist air from the attic into the heat pump unit and duct the dry cold air back into the attic.. can do that with a typical vented attic and with an "unvented" attic as well.. I have an unvented attic (for fire reduction - in WUI area) and this allows the area between the ceiling and roof line to be additionally "conditioned" .

@BiggMo Ай бұрын

4:08 heat pump water heaters are perfect for cooling a wine room, or chilled pantry (Modern above ground root cellar)

@alberthartl8885 Ай бұрын

I have been a general contractor for over 30 years. Using ENT conduit to sleeve PEX water lines in a slab is a breeze! I love the Canadian Ipex brand. With a vent to daylight, you can also sleeve TracPipe.

@JP-kb4yi Ай бұрын

Im building a new house ICF with Lightdeck roof right now and (WAS) going to do a heat pump water heater until I watched this. My water heater was going to double for heated floors. I didn’t even think about the cold air. Now I’m doing 2 electric tankless water heaters one will be dedicated for the floor heat. Glad I saw this now, 3 weeks from now I would have had a costly problem to fix.

@1michaelbrown Ай бұрын

I thought most people for floors heated by water (some just are just electric) used a boiler I assume because of how much stress that would put on a water heater to do that. I know some people depending on where they live. They even actually put it outside and it’s heated with wood.

@ericroot8475 22 күн бұрын

the tank would be about 40-60° hotter than you'd want for floor heating anyway, better to keep them separate.

@quacktony Ай бұрын

Nice to see more collaboration between others.

@jesinbeverly Ай бұрын

My Mechanical room is a little small for a heat pump water heater. The mechanical room is adjacent to the kitchen and backs right up to the Refrigerator cabinet. I'm venting the top of the refrigerator cabinet into the mechanical room (Hot air) and and venting the cool air from the Mechanical room floor into the bottom of the refrigerator cabinet. Both units should now operate more efficiently.

@MrNiceGuyMEGA08 Ай бұрын

That's what I was going to suggest. I think this is a good approach. (Other people talked about cooling their network server.room or solar inverter and mechanicals room, but not everyone has that.). Everyone's gonna have a refrigerator, so I think this is a smart move.

@lj5773 Ай бұрын

Duct the air from the water heater closet into the AC intake so it's reconditioned with the house air conditioning and never cools a specific room. You could install a second ac filter and probably skip a fan all together as the ac heat intake will Evac the space.

@jamesshannon88 Ай бұрын

What about freezing issues? Seems like every couple years now we get a good freeze

@user-jc5hl3hd1c 22 күн бұрын

dump the cold air upstairs where its usually already a few degrees warmer, it can help balance the temp between upstairs & downstairs

@taylorbespoke Ай бұрын

I am considering a fan to provide the heat pump water heater with waste heat from a nearby room. I would either trigger the fan with a current sense switch (turn on the fan when the heat pump is running) or a temperature control switch (when the water heater room gets too cold). The room I am putting the heat pump water heater is a bit small based on the manufacturers spec, so providing it with extra heat will help.

@ericwolf5874 Ай бұрын

This is what I was thinking. Automate everything you can in my book.

@jpdavis129 Ай бұрын

Seems like a good idea to get that heatpump air into your conditioned attic space. With the attic being within the thermal envelope, but not an area where people are hanging out; it seems you could use that as a dump zone that doesnt cause pressurization issues.

@Eric998765 Ай бұрын

I took a weird approach to my house. It is slab on grade and black water pipes are all under slab, but I have a raised floor that I can run pex and wire through. PT 2x4s one direction and kiln 2x6s perpendicular to that. I put my HPWH in my garage right on the wall that separates garage and house so there is plenty of cuft for air. Only two annoying parts is having to run all my lines through the separator wall (hurray spray foam I guess) and having my ductless mini split working against the water heater over the winter.

@richcherwalk6349 Ай бұрын

I don’t know why people don’t run the main dwv and supply lines along perimeter of house and have fixtures on outside edges of house so any problems are easy to diagnose and fix

@erickessler6094 Ай бұрын

Matt, Eric, I love the discussion! What are your thoughts on either ducting the heatpump water-heater cold air into the attic? Or PLACING the heatpump water-heater in the conditioned attic? Cheers, Eric

@nationsnumber1chump Ай бұрын

My home has no in slab water lines . It comes in thru the basement wall. However the sewer is cast iron and it has cracks now because the soil settled because of the drought so the poop water went into my sump and out to the neighbors. Supposedly its good until the tree root grows again and then I have to get it cut out and replaced when they realign the ceramic with the cast iron at the foundation wall. Probably do a full remodel then 🙉

@garrett9186 Ай бұрын

In a commercial office they sleeved the pipe going to the kitchen island. So it could be replaced if needed.

@BrianBaldridgeC Ай бұрын

2:55, it is called a backwater valve.

@orrenchapman5132 Ай бұрын

Why not duct the cold air to the hvac return?

@jamesalles139 Ай бұрын

that sounds simple enough

@jamesalles139 Ай бұрын

that sounds simple enough

@orrenchapman5132 Ай бұрын

In my head it seems like a great solution cool air gets heated in the winter helps with a/c in the summer

@jamesalles139 Ай бұрын

@@orrenchapman5132 as long as there is enough circulation, you might not need an auxiliary fan

@bradmathews Ай бұрын

A friend has jackhammered his slab twice in the last 15 years to fix water leak issues. I just spent $36k replacing the cast iron waste lines for 9 toilets in the slab foundation at my preschool. Not a slab foundation fan right now!

@NateD704 Ай бұрын

I'm a mechanical engineer(PE) that designs commercial MEP systems and we always call for PEX that runs under slabs to be in a PVC pipe, because as you've mentioned the last thing you want is a leak under a slab. Similar to what you're doing, we always call for the PEX to be continuous without joints underground. It looks like you have an opportunity to have the PEX continuous from the meter to the shut-off in the house. The plumbing code(pretty much any version) does not require those emergency drains to be trapped since they aren't connected to the sanitary sewer, and without regular occurrences of water entering the drain the P-trap will dry out. I think you alluded to it, but you can use a trap guard, even without a P-trap, to seal it off that will open only when water enters the drain.

@ssl3546 Ай бұрын

The trap is to keep air out and you can buy any number of trap liquids that don't evaporate.

@NateD704 Ай бұрын

@@ssl3546 A trap seal will perform the same function without having to deal with any liquids which will evaporate. Adding to this - P3201.2.1 of the 2018 IRC requires a trap primer or "barrier-type trap seal protection" (e.g. Trap guard) for "Trap seals of emergency floor drain traps..." So if these were connected to the sewer, they would require a trap-primer or a trap guard.

@jimyeats Ай бұрын

Alluded*

@clintgray1623 Ай бұрын

Should have a inspection port in the sleeve, to look at condition of pex periodically

@rockys7726 Ай бұрын

I put my heat pump water heater in the same room as the solar electronics and chest freezer. Therefore the heat from the electronics are pulled into the water heater and the cool air from the water heater is beneficial for the electronics. Kind of a closed loop system.

@scorpio6587 Ай бұрын

Good sign-off.

@disqusrubbish5467 26 күн бұрын

Question for anyone that knows...with all the growing concern over PFAS chemicals, and plastics in food and water, what's the scoop on PEX? (We have copper.) Thxs.

@bobbray9666 Ай бұрын

We recently sold our 50 year old home that had copper water distribution pipes under the slab. I think it's a ticking time bomb and one hell of a mess and expense when a pipe starts leaking. The home also had galvanized HVAC ducting under the slab which I'm pretty sure had started to decay. Glad we got out. It may last decades more or not.

@deadmanswife3625 Ай бұрын

That was nice of you. Sell somebody something that you wouldn't want yourself😂

@bobbray9666 Ай бұрын

@@deadmanswife3625 So when/if you sell a home like one built in the 40's, would you rewire the home to code? Knob and wire homes can self ignite when the wire insulation degrades.

@deadmanswife3625 Ай бұрын

@@bobbray9666 I would stay put and fix my s*** there's no place like home

@DeathIncarnate306 Ай бұрын

I just can't imagine new construction and not having a basement. I will never live in a house without a basement!

@bradensteinhour7250 Ай бұрын

In Austin it’s not required do dig the footings deep due to residential code. In northern states footings are required to be a few feet down depending on location so most opt to dig the few extra feet and include a basement. In the location they are in it’s extremely cost prohibitive to essentially quarry out the limestone a few feet below the surface. As for other states in the south it doesn’t get cold enough, long enough to justify deeper footings therefore code doesn’t require it and basements also can introduce ground water intrusion issues for homes in low elevations.

@stevemullen8457 Ай бұрын

Half the country doesn't have basements. You sure won't find them in earthquake country.

@matt45540 Ай бұрын

Anywhere in a coastal area typically won't have a basement. Majority of South Carolina bottom half of Georgia Alabama and Louisiana and all of Florida don't have basements.

@roBLINDhood Ай бұрын

Interesting ideas about ducting cool air from a heat pump water heater. I may use that as a solution for how to cool my home theater equipment closet year round. What kind of CFM and BTU/h are you getting off of one of those?

@joetacchino4470 Ай бұрын

Builders in Houston don’t run any water lines even sleeved through the slab, except for the one penetration from the ground into the wall. Overhead for all the rest.

@clintgray1623 Ай бұрын

And they love freezing cold weather when the pipes freeze and burst in thousands of houses, then they love to go back and replace sheetrock

@bolland83 Ай бұрын

Why not duct it to a vent right near the main return vent? Whenever the air handler is running it can pull that cold air right back into the system for conditioning. Another option is some sort of heat exchanger like you would use with an ERV.

@kylelaw7210 Ай бұрын

It would be interesting to have a fan setup that would blow the cold air outside or into a conditioned attic in the winter and into the living area in the summer.

@andreycham4797 Ай бұрын

There is not a lot of cool air Just dump it into a conditioned attic and forget about of course if you are in a hot climate like in Texas

@tedspradley Ай бұрын

5:52 Matt, since this is new construction, did you consider using a combined HVAC and water heater just run your water lines to the water heater from the heat pump unit. I think I’ve seen those on your channel? What was the pro/con thought process? Thank you

@chaseweeks2708 Ай бұрын

Why not just put either a fresh air vent (because it's probably going to be warmer than the interior of the house) or a stale air exhaust vent (so that it's negatively pressurized and pre-cools the fresh air a little bit) from the ERV in that room with the water heater? Seems to me that would make a lot more sense than running dedicated exterior vent pipes or adding fans to move air through the utility closet. Would also mean you could put the thing into a much smaller room, I would think.

@kc9scott Ай бұрын

If people are (or have been) using hot water, the heat-pump water heater will be heavily chilling the air of the room it’s in. If it’s sitting idle (and no recirc pump), it will be slightly warming the air of the room it’s in. To me, it seems a bad idea to have that utility room exchange air with the outside, since it’ll mess up the indoor humidity. Best to just exchange air with somewhere else in the house.

@chaseweeks2708 Ай бұрын

@@kc9scott yeah, I would either go that route or include it in the ERV system. Direct venting seems like a terrible idea after spending so much time and money on the rest of the envelope

@coasttal123 Ай бұрын

What type of valve is the plumber using on the those floor drains? I don't think a normal check valve will work with very little head prior to the valve. Please respond.

@Daniel-nx7zh Ай бұрын

In California you never run water lines under a slab

@billceve9830 29 күн бұрын

ehhh.. they do all the time in California... not sure where you live... I do not like that they run water supply and hot water in the slab ALMOST ALL THE TIME.... I am actuallyjbuilding a house in California and abandoning the in slab water supplies and putting them over head - PEXa - and doing a hot water recirculation - using a separate small electric water heater as the recirculation buffer and using a heat pump water to feed into that small electric water heater buffer tank.. the heat pump heater and tank needs to keep strict cold to hot stratification for efficiency... so the small 5 gallon or so water heater buffer tank is a great to way to do a nice recirculation hot water system... and if a particular room that need hot water is too distant from a recirc line.. then just put a small point of use electric water heater buffer tank and let the hot water take its time to get to that buffer tank, but still have essentially instant water at the source you. need it...

@oatlord Ай бұрын

Why not build a 4 footish conditioner crawl space? Stupid idea?

@timothykeith1367 Ай бұрын

Other than cost it seems okay

@BirchwoodBill 28 күн бұрын

How can I hire Eric Aune to help consult on a project in Minnesota

@Loadrunner620 Ай бұрын

Heat pump water heater would be best in a vented attic.

@ryansoo4000 29 күн бұрын

So is there any danger of a copper pipe being corroded when it is in contact with concrete?

@paulv22 Ай бұрын

If cost is no object, which seems to be the case in these builds, why not do a basement? Even a partial crawlspace would help.

@kylelaw7210 Ай бұрын

What size pvc pipe do you recommend putting the pex in?

@raymondpeters9186 29 күн бұрын

Cool

@MongoosePreservationSociety Ай бұрын

Got spare cold air in the house? Send it to the fridge radiator or entertainment center for cooling off your indoor hot things

@jonreedy467 Ай бұрын

I had an under slab leak last year. Insurance would not cover. 40k to fix

@jamesalles139 Ай бұрын

T&P valve - High Temperature and Pressure relief

@hifiandmtb Ай бұрын

Thanks, came here to find out! 🤔

@billceve9830 29 күн бұрын

@billceve9830 0 seconds ago ehhh.. they do all the time in California... not sure where you live... I do not like that they run water supply and hot water in the slab ALMOST ALL THE TIME.... I am actuallyjbuilding a house in California and abandoning the in slab water supplies and putting them over head - PEXa - and doing a hot water recirculation - using a separate small electric water heater as the recirculation buffer and using a heat pump water to feed into that small electric water heater buffer tank.. the heat pump heater and tank needs to keep strict cold to hot stratification for efficiency... so the small 5 gallon or so water heater buffer tank is a great to way to do a nice recirculation hot water system... and if a particular room that need hot water is too distant from a recirc line.. then just put a small point of use electric water heater buffer tank and let the hot water take its time to get to that buffer tank, but still have essentially instant water at the source you. need it...

@rheuss1 Ай бұрын

Pex fails in the attic too. The problems with pex, especially uphonor are becoming apparent.

@deltasquared7777 Ай бұрын

The cost of running electrically detectable tracer tape on all underground plumbing is negligible and should always be included

@mikenorfleet2235 29 күн бұрын

Jesus man free cold air in texas....pump that into your hvac during summer.

@tomsawyer2923 Ай бұрын

Damnn them jeans are tight. Is that lip balm and airpods??

@raulocasio9168 Ай бұрын

In the movie 'THE UPSIDE' 2017 Kevin Hart does a shower scene. What is/are the brands of the HIGH-PRESSURE WALL JETS systems like the one in the movie? Can you help? Thank you!

@spinnetti Ай бұрын

I've never understood burying your plumbing. The ground heaves so freaking much it makes no sense, but everybody does it here. We've already had to replace 1/2 our plumbing from breakage due to land heave.

@danielbuckner2167 Ай бұрын

Dont be dumb, put that cold air into the HVAC intake to be conditioned and dried and filtered before going into the house air.

@mammothscott1455 27 күн бұрын

Absolutely do not put water lines under a slab. My home (built 1988) had copper under the slab and PB above the slab. Copper failed in 2000, causing a slab leak and significant damage on the first floor. By 2005 the PB “sprung a leak” and necessitated replumbing the front portion of the house with copper. By 2019 the reminder of the PB “sprung a leak” on the second floor causing significant damage. Now roll ahead to 2024, dealing with the PB from the water meter to the main house shutoff. It’s been said; “if it’s not one thing, it’s another”. No under pressure plumbing under a slab!!

@tealkerberus748 Ай бұрын

Y'know I've got a bunch of European friends have been miserable the last few months because they have "heat waves" of up to 28 degrees celcius, and their buildings weren't built for this heat so they're sweltering. And I'm an Aussie in a house where anything below 40 degrees C outside is just whatever weather. Global warming is making most places warmer, and their houses built 60 or 70 years ago weren't built for their current temperatures. We can learn from that, and built houses that are ready for global warming to get hotter .. but you need to think about what happens if it gets colder too. Don't assume that just because you don't get frosts now, you never will. All it takes is one big volcano, or a nuclear exchange, or even an asteroid, and we could have a few years of volcanic winter before global warming gets back in gear. Whoever is living in this house at that time will have enough problems to deal with, without their pipes all rupturing from frost as well.

@jamesnichols7507 29 күн бұрын

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