Funny that all three games that you mention are developed by Platinum Games.

Exposition, exposition and exposition. Japan writing has this thing of stopping the story dead in its track to give us detail about the world which I'm okay with if it makes up for it but it mostly a waste of time since the exposition can be inserted in a better place or slowly feeds info as the story progresses. That's one of the problems I have with one of Japan's writing.

at least japanese game developers still creating game as an artwork and not plagued with illiteracy, political correctness and lack of creativity like the western counterpart

That's why it takes eight episodes to see a fight play out in DBZ.

Yeah Japanese media is fucking wierd and bizarre but that's kind of the charm. Japan is the only place where I can get this type of content like who the hell would make a game about a 6 foot tall hot british woman who's a witch that uses her hair as clothing,weapon and a portal to summon powerful demons from hell to fight angels while not knowing who she is, not in America , but i see your points.

I fucking hate anime for the exact same reasons. Unfortunately the same stupid, pointless stuff carries over to their games. I really like all the games you mentioned FROM A GAMEPLAY PERSPECTIVE, but i just can't take them seriously even for a minute with all the random shit they threw in there.

This was a very brave video to make. Even though I find all the opinions you just laid out there utter trash, I find it fantastic that you, unlike many other youtubers, actually took a risk by saying something people don't like to hear.

I couldn't possibly agree more, Japanese storytelling, particularly in games and anime, is shockingly nonsensical, and even when it tries to be realistic and grounded, or at least gritty, (Metal Gear series, Death Stranding) they either come across as utter nonsense or retcon their previous instalments into non-existence in order to explain the latest plot hole. Even the game that introduced a great many non-Japanese to JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII made no sense past a certain point when I originally played it back in the late 1990s, and many years later downloading it from the PlayStation store I gave up pretty early as the story just wasn't engaging. Western roleplaying games that came out around the same time (the Baldur's Gate series, Planescape Torment) had solid stories, hell, even the hack and slash stuff like Diablo made sense and had some interesting, but easy to understand twists and turns, even if the story wasn't sterling, but JRPGs seem aimed at people with the common sense and critical ability of the average dead gerbil.

As far as the "show don't tell" rule goes, there are some japanese video games that handle it really well. Silent Hill 2, Dark Souls, Bloodborne etc... Those games really know how to deliver exposition without forcing it down your throat.

>That Last point. The musical "Boss fight" cut scene in Devil May Cry 4 comes to mind.

It's crazy, my wife and I were just talking about this last night, I completely agree.

What do you think of Killer7 and death note

There's a good anime I can recommend to you, Gamertron. it's called 91 days. It inspired by the age of mafia and such. it has none of the annoying tropes that you mentioned. you should watch it.

I'm a huge fan of anime and I respect your opinion and I agree with a lot of your points. However, most of your points, although true, are the reason I love anime. I don't see why so many people disliked this video... everything you said was well thought out and you didn't make fun of anyone.

Had the same feelings about Japanese games, there not bad, but the characters/storyline is always just weird, out of place, or just "meh". Thanks for producing this video GameTron!

i respect your opion :-)

i was honestly expecting "fanservice" for the last one. IDK why, it's a gaming video not an anime one but that just popped into mind.

i'm not here to hate, but i wanna point out a few things. growing up in a thoroughly asian (taiwanese) household, it is indeed true that a lot of the stuff we do has some sort of symbolic thing behind it. I find it kind of annoying too. Second, that show dont tell thing... i think its rlly limited to shounen action anime... i mean, that doesnt rlly happen in other kind of anime... Third, the weird shit is fan service i guess? btw, all the anime u mentioned r shit... idk about u but i prefer slice of life stuff, try some of that out... idk if u hav, but barakamon is a personal fav. Edit: i kinda understand where ur opinion comes from

Persona 5 changed my live (and point of view) about Japanese culture

"The pointless bullshit." I'm not really positive how to approach this because it is ultimately just an opinion. There isn't much objective to point out there, but I'll try either way. The weird shit within Japanese culture is reflective of their culture in the same way that OUR weird shit is here in Murica. If you don't think we have weird shit, take a moment and consider the scene in the first Avengers in which Hulk punches Thor in the side of the head during the invasion. There's no real reason for him to do that in such a serious situation. You could sit there and consider all the ramifications of that action such as "what if Hulk broke something of his with that punch? What if it knocked him out cold?" For the story, it's a pointless weirdshit moment that (despite being motivated by petty childishness) didn't HAVE to be there for the plot. Very much in the same way, I believe a lot of the "weird shit" we see in Japanese media is created from the same stand point. It's just a joke. I don't think Japan cares about Western sensibilities, so to a Japanese audience, a minigame about staring at a chick may be hilarious, and the rewarding weapon is icing on the cake of a great joke. The moments in which those things show up in a videogame tend to, imo, fall into 2 categories. 1: A joke. The point of it is to pull you out of the story a little and remind you that you're playing a videogame, and the devs are effectively giving you a little chuckle- or possibly even an insight to their mindsets. Games are made by people, after all. One of my favorite moments in Nier: A is (*slight spoiler for one of the endings*) when you can get a Mackerel, yes the fish, from Jackass. She tells you that it's probably fine to eat. When you check its description is pretty much tells you "this will kill you," and if you eat it, your android body congeals and hardens effectively, and you die. The game ends. So in this wonderful story about the depressing struggle of a never ending war that you never had any control over in the first place, 2b or 9s can drop dead because they ate a fish. "And it was delicious." If you put that in the category of storytelling, you're being foolish. That's a dev's joke from their desk to you. HOWEVER. 2: A convolutedly complex but still valid character development moment. When [REDACTED] Shows up in Nier: A, he's... missing features. But his character is immediately established in the absolute weirdness of the situation, and he even opens up a plot relevant "door" with his antics, and after that you don't see him for a while. When he shows up again, he does note the original moment in which he met you, but the sheer weirdness of everything about him overrides any question that could be had about how he functions. Without knowing the background lore(which I didn't my first run through), the moment was just a hilariously weird goof in a way only a Japanese game can pull off. But after looking up and learning the lore of the past game? Who he was? Is? His place in this universe? I was baffled. They flawlessly inserted him as a complete joke, one that was hilariously confusing to newcomers, yet for someone who's been with the series, a triumphant thing to see. Every line he states, his personality, the way he interacts and sees the world gains a new light when knowing the lore. Also by god he's a scary one when you actually know who he is. And his age. BUT he was still perfectly in place in the game without that knowledge, and what comes later with him (likely after a few endings and higher level just to be safe...) is perfectly in place either way. THAT SAID, it's not always good. It's like any trope. Hulk punches Thor and it's hilarious, Batman punches Superman and everyone groans because of how shit the buildup and pay off was. Anyway, sorry for the long message. I suppose my point is... Try to loosen up? The intent of the weird stuff in Japanese games is generally for laughs, not for serious storytelling. And in a GOOD Japanese story, you don't see that trash trope of *character is sweating and on one knee* "Kisuke is tired...!" "Really? No shit--get the hell out of here!" "Bobby is going to kill us all!" "DAMN STRAIGHT I AM!" "Bobby shot me!" "IN THE HEAD. HOW ARE YOU STILL... UGH." That's just bad screenwriting/storytelling. Nothing Japanese about it outside of them happening to do it the most. American media does it all the time. Hell, I don't remember which movie it was, but I remember laughing out loud in the theater as ...something destroyed a satellite, then a "secret base" and in a overseeing room, some commanding officer was like "She destroyed our secret satellite and our base! How did she even know about that?!" OH RIGHT, SUICIDE SQUAD. HAH. Sorry, longwinded. Anyway, I respect your opinion, but I'd recommend just trying to roll with the joke as it shows up (unless it's something pervy, then just ignore it. Japan likes its pervy things)

Dude Bayonetta just wanted to have fun in that scene, Bayonettas a playful character.

Does this include DB Xenoverse 1and 2, and AoT Wings of Freedom?

When you mentioned the anime you watched I kinda facepalmed. Not for newcomers, some are just objectively bad to top it off.

"Seven Deadly Sins" Its amazing how you accidentally find the worst stuff there is out there so EASILY,it's like you've a curse or something. To be honest I think there's no difference with Eastern studios when it comes to your complaints but it's just that Anime like Dragonball Z and Evangelion are more obvious about it. Great Video,I respect how well you explained your opinion

I don't share most your thoughts but I do respect them c:

As with a lot of things in life, if I can tolerate something, I'll typically just accept it as what it is. Nier: Automata, for instance, has some totally bizarre, goofy, and completely unnecessary moments, but that's because it's Nier: Automata. It just comes with the territory. It's no better or worse off for it, it just makes it what it is. I don't know if I have low standards, a high degree of respect, or I just live to experience what something has to offer. If I genuinely don't care, then I move on and ignore it and that's that. Few cases will arrive where I don't at least respect any media for what it is at a basic level. That's why I respect anyone's opinion that doesn't encroach on another's.

You should make a video talking about Killer 7. Now that's an exception in Japanese Storytelling.

1:56-2:14 This kind of self-awareness and intellectual honesty regarding subjectivity is disappointingly uncommon. Kudos.

I thought the thing you had in common with Nier Automata, Vanquish and Bayonetta was they were all made in part by Platinum.

You are right. On every point. And at a certain point, "good writing" is objective. It's why the Fast and Furious films are wildly popular, yet despite there being a million of them, they've never been awarded anything. Popular doesn't equal good...

The Bayonetta nitpick was the only one that really raised my eyebrow, because the whole thing is the token mirror match trope and it was done in DMC3 granted after the boss fight is when they did a little lame ass shimmy, Zelda (has a hard on for it) and Metroid also did it.

Actually, the dance-off does have a point. It's the same reason why the musical 'Annie, Get Your Gun' has a song called 'Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better'. They were having a British Witch version of a dick-measuring contest. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has never played the game. It's just glaringly obvious from the context of the situation. The previous scene alone well establishes that she's got a massively arrogant ego. So when she comes across an enemy trying to cop her style, of course she's going to call them out on it. With her BODY LANGUAGE, Bayonetta was saying, 'You think you're a sexy witch? Well I'm THE sexy witch'.

All I'll say is that I wish you had given actual examples for the first two flaws like you did with the third, since that would have helped me understand the complaints a lot more. I kinda agree with you on the point of "random weird out of nowhere" stuff. Japanese stories CAN have humor that is based on dialogue or word-play or slowly building up a chaotic situation piece by piece until the zaniness on screen is both completely absurd AND easy to understand since you see where it's coming from... but they very often don't. At times these supposedly funny scenes feel like they come out of nowhere and are then summarily ignored, leaving you scratching your head because it doesn't feel like they meant anything or had any point to it. My uneducated "armchair anthropologist" theory is that Japanese society seems to be ENORMOUSLY strict and stiff. Everything seems so orderly and regulated by a metric ton of unspoken rules you must know or disgrace yourself, and there is no way to just ask what they are because Japanese language seems to treat anything straightforward as automatially super-omega-extremely rude. So think about... let's say "The Office". (God I hope you have seen The Office) Part of its appeal is to let us roll our eyes at seeing the inanity of modern corporate life exaggarated and lambasted for what it is. We get an understanding wink, someone who says they get how dumb and contra-productive it all is, but we deal with it anyway because that's just life. Japanese humor doesn't really feel like it can ever be this blase or laid-back about itself. Every joke must be SUPER-WACKY and out of nowhere, come and go at breakneck speed. It kind of feels like... they're ashamed of themselves for laughing. They want the release a joke brings, they want to have a moment in which they get to laugh and be elevated beyond societal bullshit... but they don't want it to last TOO long. They don't want it to linger, they don't want a joke that will stay with them and occupy their mind because how dare they use time they could spend on something useful on something so wasteful as "building up to a joke" or "letting a joke's unspoken assumptions linger and develop after it's been told"? Disgraceful! No, better to just throw it in as fast as possible, have it over and done with as soon as possible, and then just continue on our merry way. Now I totally pulled this out of my ass, I am no anthropolgist and most of this comes from the negative image I have of Japan as an extremely formal and soulkillingly stiff culture as a whole. It is an extreme, and I am totally open to there being nuances of it that I just don't get- that it's all a matter of not seeing the proper references that brings context to the humor. But I see stuff like manzai, and many a "humor" anime, and, well... after a while you just gotta come to a conclusion based on what you've experienced. But on the other hand, I will also admit that you CAN also aim a lot of your complaints at western slapstick cartoons as well. The Looney Tunes are FULL of the stuff, but do you still like them? Honest question, I've no idea if you just cathegorically dislike slapstick or if you are okay with some of it. If you do, what is different from Looney Tunes out-of-nowhere zaniness compared to Japanese out-of-nowhere zaniness? A lot of humor relies on cultural short-hand, after all. References we just don't get unless we¨re mired in the culture from which it came. You could argue there are differences between the specific WAYS Western and Eastern stories are random and zany, but in this video you just describe how Eastern stories are wacky without really specifying how THEIR wackiness if different than Western wackiness. So I don't know if you are down on wackiness IN GENERAL, or if you have some specific beef with just Eastern wackiness. Though PS: Bayonetta had a dance-battle because some bish stepped up looking exactly like her, and she wanted to show that SHE had the most swag. So it was an impromptu dance battle with an impostor. It's essentially the whole "Bugs Bunny sees someone dressed up like him in a doorway but acts like it's a mirror and starts making funny faces seeing if they replicate it, and then ends with him smacking their heads in with a hammer". I'm not saying it always makes sense, but I am saying that Bayonetta IS more or less a Looney Tune and the story operates on that level. So it isn't too weird, from that perspective.

at the end i really expected your leave-a-like-rambling to devolve into literal "bla-bla-bla" xD

Great video with a good opinion though laughed at your first reason. Overt symbolism and allegory is why I love the Godzilla series so much. I dare you to watch Shin Godzilla after it releases in August. Fantastic film which perfectly encompasses all your complaints.

this reason is exactly what has me mixed on most of my eastern games... I need a good reason to play them. it's also a reason I love dragon Ball, because who needs to know more than "punch that jerk!!"

My big problem with Japanese storytelling (and it bleeds into gameplay as well) is that everything is just so....Yolo. I really can't describe it in any other way. It's like, here's a pirate anime but there's weird fruit powers and all sorts of bullshit like triple sword techniques. Or here's a trading card game anime but monsters and shit are coming to life and it sometimes stop being turn-based and resembles more of a pokemon fight or something. Japanese storytelling is so yolo and never grounded in reality. Even in a fantasy setting I want there to be a very consistent internal logic that resembles reality.

What a depressing video. But then again I like anime and games from Japan, weeb or not. But I know one absolute truth that you can bank on and cannot deny. Anime was never designed for anyone outside of Japan. But I'll make it personal, it was not made for you and you in mind. It became popular because it was different and out of the ordinary. But just like everything else it has its tropes and stereotypes based on where it comes from. Symbolism, wacky expressions, sexually free from western taboos and all that is native in Japan and they are free to express it in what ever way they see fit. You are pretty much talking to a brick wall, but Amendment 2 is at your'e side to say what you did, as is mine to respond. Frankly I think you and guys who think like you is why we had an JRPG or Japanese game drought a while back. To much bitching and whining about tropes or "I don't get it" had some publishers in Japan said "fuck it" "no games for you" and guys like you bitched about why aren't we getting any more Japanese stuff. Anything that does come out from Japan has to be scrutinized and most of the damned time butchered before we can we even get it be cause it was never meant for us. It has to be localized, meaning it has to altered in a way for our dumb asses to get and understand it. I kinda find it funny at times how even the trope filled cheesy as hell high school romcom anime can have a deeper meaning in plot and dialogue than million dollar Oscar winning western movie. Don't believe...watch "Your Name" Kimi no Na wa. I've devote too much time with this...I ma drop the mic here.

This video puts the nail on the head

I don't really read or follow much Japanese or Anime type media, but your first point about the issue of "symbolism" and need to have vast cultural background knowledge for a clear understanding is quite odd- since many of the greatest pieces of western literature often require just as much understand of culture as what you seem to be complaining about.

lol... front mission evolved? that is by DoubleHelix.. wasnt inhouse squaresoft. it was a western dev title..

Ayy ninja blade. Such a fun and underrated action game.

Don't beat yourself over with this. If it's not appealing to you, just don't force yourself. It's sad that you had to make so many disclaimers, because you knew people don't know how to discuss.

If you want a really fantastic anime to watch? If you haven't, Watch AoT season 1(25 episodes) and 2 (12 episodes)! Season 3 comes out 2018.

little weird that the only thing you linked between Bayonetta, Vanquish and Nier Automata was they're from japan and not that they have the same developer. A developer who isn't known for their skillful storytelling (nier is an exception cause it was written by Yoko Taro).Bayonetta is in the broad strokes a lot like Neon Genesis Evangelion, a pseudo spiritual war story that doesn't actually mean anything and is an excuse for awesome fight scenes. Vanquish is a pretty blatant take down of Gears of War. Nier has the best story of any game this year, but its doesnt start unraveling its brilliance till later. Not gonna really dispute your points cause A) your not WRONG and B) it is just your opinion of how these tropes strike you. But I do think this video could have used some work. You didn't really give concrete examples of what was bothering you until the third point. I mean, i totally know what you mean when you say the side characters over explain shit; thats every battle anime from Dragon Ball Z to Yugioh. BUT, it would have been good to have more concrete examples in the video. Maybe even some clips. I personally think what a lot of us like about Japanese stories IS how weird and not "american" they are. Ive been BATHING in western media my whole life, nice to get another perspective for a change. The Killer is Dead developer made another game "Killer 7" that you should check out because the WHOLE DAMN GAME IS JUST SO FUCKING WEIRD!~!! From the gameplay to the "story" its just one energetic non-sequitur after another and you just cant look away. Saints Row 2-4 did something similar where the story is dumb and weightless mostly, but you just keep playing to see what wacky shit happens next. Anime Recommendation: try "Outlaw Star". fun space romp with a story arc it sticks to.

How the fuck did I know you were talking about aldnoha zero. That freaked me out.

Your third point is a draw in my book XD However, your first two points were pretty understandable. I even kinda agree to your second point.

Holy fuck... I try and tell my friends, who all love anime, that I don't like it, and they look at me like I'm crazy. I was beginning to think I was alone. Thank you.

Want a really good anime to watch? *Cowboy Bebop* is your best bet. Great story, great characters and no stupid exposition. In fact there is no exposition in the first episode that tells the characters back story until much later.

I fucking love Bayonetta.

1:17 liked the video because of that

🤔 Curious....wonder what he thinks of Elden Ring

hey gamertron I respect your opinion and u have your taste and other people have theres

I agree with you. While I enjoy a lot of japanese-styled games, and the graphics and gameplay are fun, the storytelling is pretty lame. Over the top, cliche, characters, predictable plots and usually a lot of convoluted subplots that never really pan out, make sense, or matter. These days I tend to stick to western RPGs if I can help it (my one guilty exception is the final fantasy series).

Thank you so much for articulating what I've been feeling about anime and japaense video games for so long, I just couldnt put my finger on it. Final Fantasy 7 remake and my. God just any anime on crunchy roll. I could say one piece but really it's every anime.

thanks for saying that, i thought i was the only one

I appreciate this topic and agree with many of your points, but your arguments would benefit from the use of specific examples. For instance, when you say that Nier Automata tells without showing, which scene(s) or plot points are you referring to? I understand your desire to avoid spoilers, but that desire makes your logic difficult to follow. Also, Bayonetta and Killer is Dead are supposed to be weird. That's kind of the point. :-P

Reason is a little silly. Little bit of contradiction, but your opinion is fair enough. I feel like you just haven't found enough of the good stuff, which is unfortunate. I could be wrong, I dunno.

super hero movies, t.v. shows and comic books also have weird shit all of the time but u'll keep watching/reading those won't u.

9:10 That's called "you must do what you must" son, it's life.

While personally a dating sim does sound stupid to me, I looked up the dance scene from Bayonetta and it reminds me of a scene from Devil May Cry 4 where the main protagonist Dante, has a conversation with a villain/boss in theatrical style. There are stage lights, dramatic pauses, everything! And while what they're saying has some subsistence to it, the way they perform it is completely unnecessary...AND I LOVE IT! If you truly want to enjoy illogical moments in video games and anime like these, in my opinion you need to turn your brain off. Tell the logical thinking part of your brain to just take a nap, and enjoy the show! "Hey, that guys sword has an engine in it, and when he revs said engine he does more damage." Is it logical? No! Does it look cool? uh, YES!

i agree so much.

"Western game" and "western movie" includes Europe. Europe is, after all, the foundation of Western culture. So you don't have to say "western and european games". That's like saying, "western games and western games". If you want to distinguish non-european western games, you can just say American games. ;)

In most cases I prefer japanese storytelling as I enjoy the whole over the top stupidity of it with things like dmc and bayonettta also the characters in most japanese games are a bit more relatable like i find Noctis from ffxv a lot more relatable than military guy 229834737

Please tell me you've at least given *_One Punch Man_* a chance?...

Fire emblem has awesome storytelling, (except fates).

I'm personally a big fan of "show, don't tell" As long as the story doesn't require, as you put it, "homework" from some outside movie/book/source. It's for this exact reason Marvel/DC stories I tend to dislike.

Gamertronshow , I understand and you are entitled to your views, personally I only like a few animes and most of them are westernised like jojo bizarre adventures which literally takes the mick out of most of your criticisms and helsing ultimate which is badassary incarnate (both of which I'd recommend) but like I said , it's your choice

An anime you should try seeing is Maria the Virgin Witch. If you can get past the light sex jokes and fanservice, it's quite fun. Especially if you like medieval combat. It's more realistic than any Western movie I've seen.

5:24 - Oh that's a reference to Dragon Ball Z!

Holup, EDF is supposed to have a story?

For some reason, when I first read the title of this video, I excluded "Why I dislike" for some reason. It's like my brain doesn't want me to be logical

Did you ever try MGS ? I heard that game series have 'amazing' story telling.

I'd like to see a version of this video where he explains WHY Japanese storytelling is like this -- I agree with all of his examples here, but I just want to understand where it all comes from

The fact, that the Story is so complex and you need so much background knowledge is one of the reasons, why these type of games are so appealing

I agree with this guy. This is the reason I dont like the story of kingdom hearts 3. I dont know what the heck is going on.

I'm a fan of Japanese games but I agree with all of your points

That like to dislike ratio though

on 3rth point you want a answer about the weird shit in anime. mean, have you heard the word "fap"? that's why they are there. your points are objective not subjective and i agree even though i am watching way too mach anime. You sould wach the old anime like gost in the shell or evangelion or play the persona series. they still have fanservice but they try much harder

I think the Bayonetta dance off was to see who is really the legit Bayonetta, comparing each other's ability to do such a style that maybe the original is capable of, feeling out how the copy is like the original. Think about looking for a weakness in the fake, I guess. And maybe you don't like the pervy Killer is Dead gigolo mode, but to some, it's just fun(ny), and a side thing to do besides just the main game. Like Gwent in the Witcher 3... yeah, I went there.

The pretty much sums up why I don't like hideo kojimas stories I like the mechanics of the games, but not the story it self.

I can recommend Full Metal Alchemist and Tokyo Ghoul as amazing anime. Just like any entertainment market there is a lot of shit and anime is no exception, but like any entertainment market there are those gems that shine so bright that your life is changed after seeing it. these two shows are that for me. I am a big fan of anime but there is a lot of weird, crazy, and just plain poop out there, but you just gotta find the right one for you.

Yea I'm with you on the Japanese games but anime ain't got shit to do with games like you said on another video that game developers put so much in they game anime developers do too it's even harder because each episode are put together one paper at a time and drawing five pages is like five seconds which they have to make 20 minutes a episode just think of all the fucked up drawings they had to throw away

All are also Platinum games, masters of Japanese action games.

There is always a good use of symbolism, and bad uses of symbolism. And which can always lead to good story, or bad story. I'm not even that huge of an anime watcher, but I've seen a lot of bad anime. I see the same problem you do, to many times where an anime which has all this stuff, that goes nowhere. Aldnoah.Zero was one of those animes, I got most of the way through the first season, and then dropped it. Because I was getting annoyed with where the story was going, and how the mechs were animate.

While I tend to love Japanese games and some anime, I do see your points. Though I will say that in the case of anime, some of that "he's tired" when you can see it is a translation glitch. They'll say phrases which are similar but not as blatant, but will just get translated that way cause it's the closest we have. On that note... wow you found like the worst anime ever! :P Not your fault though, there's tons of crap out there. I do think a lot of it comes from the Japanese having very different mindsets. You have the traditional "perfectionist" type Japan, and the over the top quirky Japan... sometimes they mix because that's just how societal evolution works. What I tend to enjoy about Japanese games are the characters... they're generally more unique, and in games like Persona, a bit more realistic. They also tend to be more colorful and nice from an artistic standpoint. And of course, yes some of the gameplay is awesome. I love Bayonetta's gameplay, among others. So yeah, you make good points, but I like them anyway. I'll represent the even-headed crowd I guess. ^^;

AS much as i love Dark souls games (and now Elden Ring) i don't understand them at all and don't care enough to invest time to figure out it's convoluted lore. I play the games for cool gear and cool battles

Why are people disliking ?

I agree with all your points, I can only think of one example of a Japanese story I enjoy (the story, there's lots of games I like) is Metroid (excluding Other M). Even a "staple" franchise like Zelda doesn't appeal to me with it's story at all (and the last game I enjoyed was Twilight Princess on GC, Wii version is garbage). The appeal to me is the exploration and actual gameplay. I'm not much of an Anime person for the same reasons. When you remove the interactivity I can't enjoy it anymore. As a kid I watched DBZ and Pokemon, and most anime i've seen since comes off as too "kid friendly" now or just to weird to make sense.

I agree. As i get older, i lose interest in anime in general.

Really enjoyed this. I've come to a similar realization myself. I purchased Bayonetta when it went on sale a year or so ago. I bought because of how well received it was. I think I made about an hour or so into the game and I just couldn't take it anymore. Far too "weird" of a game for me. The action was phenomenal, but the story was so off it killed it for me. The exact same thing happened for me with Nier: Automata. I bought it since most of the KZfaqrs I trust loved that game. So I downloaded the demo, and it looked promising. The story on the onset looked ok, but the action in the beginning sold it for me. Then about 6 hours of my life later, the game just got weirder, and weirder, and WEIRDER to the point where I put it down, and said, "Enough!" I won't say the game was terrible to me, but the story, again, killed the game for me. Too many things happened that made no sense to me. So I sold it, and moved on to something else. I'm playing Horizon on PS4 right now, and that in my opinion is a million times better of a game than Nier was. But it is like you said as it is all about opinion. Most people seem to like these games, but I think I've finally come to the realization that for the most part games that involve Japanese story telling is just not for me. It's nice to know someone else out there shares the same viewpoint.

why would story telling be so different between Japanese anime and west tv shows and games well it's simple it's what they want to write that is inherently that doesn't mean that one is worse than the other or that they shouldn't be inspired by one another such as yojimbo and mad max so what is the difference between the audience that requires different objectives while writing for a show or game well the audience is individualistic so the main character needs to be if not relatable likable to the audience while in japan they are very self conscious and courteous while these traits are also the same the characters personality is extreme it is less this is who I relate to this story centers around this crazy character and or setting just look at rpg's to jrpg in skyrim you can create your own character while in nier your character is set in a larger story by the creators the one game I would say bridges the gap in rpg's is dark souls you can create your own character and they die a lot and the creators don't have a story you have to go through you simply kill over powered monsters and bosses reading about the story at your leisure and boy did it make them a lot of money

For me, crappy Japanese tropes are enjoyable because they are novel. Western media has an equal number of problems, but I experience them daily in my actual life. I don't need to see them in my entertainment.

I'm not saying this anime are innocent in the topics that you meantion, but best anime i've ever seen has been Ergo Proxy, Samurai Champloo, Death Note, Trigun and obviously Cowboy Bebop.

I came in expecting my opinions to be challenged, I came out thinking "I agree with pretty much everything in this video and I cannot come up with many good counterarguments".

Bayonetta scene is both a riff at wuxia (think kung-fu films) with characters showing off their prowess in forms (katas) before a fight, and opportunity to show that she's the best at weird strip-tease fighing magicks. GUESS YOU DIDN'T GET THAT REFERENCE, TOO.

Pffffff....... I got you until a certain point. The "dance thing" in Bayonetta is simply for show. And damn we love to watch it as we might be simply beings despite our efforts to hide our ancient sides.

Another thing I've noticed, at least in most Japanese anime, is poor character design and development. I've seen many of these anime snake really interesting worlds to go off of, and in terms of worldbuilding they do rather well, but character wise I feel the overwhelming majority just fall short. Very rarely have I seen an anime that had a main character I actually enjoyed. Most of the time I feel we just get shitty, uninteresting characters be the centerpiece of a story and just make it unbearable to watch. An example I'll give is Strike witches. Essentially, humanity is being rapidly beaten back by a mysterious aliens foe until they come across a way to enhance individuals with mechanized equipment and magic to finally regain it's land. It's also set in World War II, allowing for some excellent storytelling. Unfortunately the series is hamstringed by having absolutely fucking awful characters. There's also a bunch of fanservice and the series ended up lacking pretty heavily.

I thought Bayoneta was all about being goofy as hell though?