The sniper bit is one of my favorites in the game. There is a moment during it when you enter the garage and Tommy starts shooting at the cars in order to draw out the infected, which is exactly what he tells Ellie to do during one of the flashbacks. When that happened, I knew it was Tommy for sure, and there was this mix of like "you motherfucker, using what you taught me to do against me!" and also "I really don't want to get to him and kill him." Good shit.

My favourite part of the game is when you chase Nora into that red lighted basement and she realizes Ellie's immune. It's so badass.

I didn’t come to argue, I came to state the fact that this is such a rare title on KZfaq and I salute you for your bravery

What bothers me the most is that Abby never got to tell Ellie why she actually killed Joel. Ellie knows Joel killed the doctors but she didn't know the main surgeon was Jerry; Abby's dad. Ellie thought Abby was mad because Joel prevented the development of a cure... of course she is mad about that, but she killed Joel specifically because of what he did to her dad. During the confrontation between Ellie and Abby, when Ellie puts her hands up she says "I know why you killed Joel, he did what he did to save me, there's no cure because of me I'm the one that you want." Abby assumes she knows why Abby killed Joel, since Ellie literally says she knows why, but she actually doesn't. They never had a chance to talk, not even in the last horrific scene... it's all just very sad, but it is a very very good game, flawed in some ways, but very very good nonetheless.

I agree with everything but the "one more death was too many" Ellie didn't let Abby go because she wasn't strong enough to kill her, but because by that point she already forgave her, just when you are about to drown her you flash back to Joel playing his guitar, now, this isn't a "oh it's not what he would've wanted" moment, the memory is about Ellie telling Joel that she's gonna try to forgive him, even if she doesn't believe she can, that is what happened at that moment, Ellie realizes the only way to let go of her guilt and pain is to forgive Abby rather than taking revenge, she already killed everyone else involved and what did she get? PTSD, she knows finishing her won't give her what she wants and will just repeat the cycle, this time with Lev hating Ellie

The dlc of the first Dishonored is, in my opinion, the best example of playing as a villain you previously hated.

Crazy thing is....I truly believe Ellie did have a happy ending, we just missed the clues... another KZfaqr commented on the letter you find at the farm when you are with Dina and the baby. It's from the baby's father's mom saying they will always have a place in Jackson if they choose to come back home. And, if you notice.....when Ellie leaves to fight Abby at the end....she's not wearing the bracelet Dina gave her....but when she returns...the camera zooms in on her hand ...we were focused on the fingers missing but looked completey passed the fact that now she is wearing the bracelet, possibly meaning she has already been to Jackson...and is living with Dina......she just went back to the farm for the guitar....but decided to leave it. That represents her finally being able to accept Joel's death and end the cycle of revenge. Here's some more things to back this claim...... 1. When she comes back to the farm...she's not hurt or not wearing any of her weapons. 2. She doesn't seem surprised that everyone is gone when she enters the house. She doesn't call out Dina's name or anything. I think people were so caught up in "Revenge" that they missed all of these details. I wish I could remember the KZfaqrs name who pointed the letter and the bracelet out but sadly I don't remember... he/she is the real hero.....I just added more context and details to back their theory. Btw this isn’t my original idea, it’s from someone else

The two showdowns completely broke me. While playing as Abby in the theatre I wanted to cry because I thought Ellie, whom I've learned to love through 2 games, was gonna die by my hands. And playing as Ellie in the ending, trying to kill another character I have come to love, I just kept thinking that I wanted them to stop and become friends instead, all this violence is completely unnecessary. I salute Naughty Dog for this amazing gaming experience! Edit: I have never ever gotten this many likes before. Thank you guys so much!

In the sniper scene it’s actually pretty obvious that it was Tommy the whole time, because it was said during Ellie’s gameplay lol

I completely disagree about the sniper scene. I knew straight away that Tommy was the sniper, I felt impressed rather than oppressed by the gameplay segment as he shot the cars to lure infected towards me, and I knew Abby wouldn't kill him when we caught up to him because he was fine and dandy in the theater with Ellie the next day.

I literally HATED the switch in the game, I refused to do any exploration because I just wanted to become Ellie again... This changed as I began to experience the storytelling. When Abby met Manny and got shot at I actually got mad, and wanted to see the sniper dead... Then it was Tommy and I was so confused... Didn't know how to feel or what to do... This game did a number on me. And I absolutely love it.

The best part of the game in my opinion is when, playing as Abby, you finally find Ellie and end up in the basement fight. Hearing Ellie craft Molotov cocktails is a sound I never thought I'd have panic attacks over.

This is a super insightful analysis. I have a different take on the "decides Abby is worthy of sparing, for some reason" perspective. Ellie's central conflict is survivor's guilt. She resents Joel for (in her view) robbing her life of meaning. We see examples throughout the story: her backlash against Joel after Dina kissed her and her reprimanding of Joel for micromanaging her routes. He keeps getting in her life's way, she thinks. Right as Abby is dying, Ellie flashes back to her final conversation with Joel and abruptly achieves a moment of clarity. She was unconscious when Joel made the decision to rescue her from the Fireflies. And she was put unconscious without being told the surgery would kill her. She had absolutely no agency in that event. Joel's comment that he would totally make the same decision again if he could go back means something new to her in that moment. No matter what, her life was never going to have that particular meaning. Meanwhile, she's two years beyond her fruitless quest in Seattle after leaving her partner, child and new home. She's in California, drowning this woman for what she thinks is closure. That's not the closure she needed, though. She didn't need closure over Joel's death. That's not her real problem. Her real problem is survivor's guilt. Her quest (and Abby's imminent murder) are not only failing to add meaning to her life; they're also subtracting from it (she's wasting time on nothing). She breaks down weeping at that thought and tells Abby to leave. She's been pursuing the wrong closure, this whole time. She doesn't spare Abby because Abby's worth sparing. She spares Abby because she realizes that Abby has been a distraction. The game ends as she sets out to take her life's meaning into her own hands. And otherwise, she killed WLF and Scars for the same reason we killed them: She needed to get to Abby, and they were very in the way.

The game really tests the limits of the player's empathy. By the end I just wanted them to just move on. They both lost so much. I'm glad Ellie kept her humanity by the end.

The ONLY thing I hated about this game was the amount of dogs I had to kill, especially sweet bear and Alice ☹️

I feel the exact same way, I remember the moment just before Ellie leaves Dina and JJ to find Abby once again, Dina begs her and said something like “she doesn’t get to be more important than us” I felt that.

Why do people get mad when someone says that they liked the game.

I get the writers intentions in the sniper scene but as someone who wasn’t spoiled, I almost immediate knew that the sniper was Tommy. I mean the game foreshadows his sniping ability when he trains Ellie and moreover if you follow the days and relate it with what Ellie would be doing at that time, it makes it even more obvious. So this “trick” really didn’t work for me.

At the ending of this game, I really felt that Ellie shouldn’t have killed Abby because what would’ve happened with Lev? I guess it requires empathy towards ones situation as whole. Also I appreciate that Ellie doesn’t go through with because it shows that there is humanity inside her still, people really wanted Abby to die which seems kinda short sighted and plain hateful.

Joel is responsible for every death, eh? And thus began ... the memes. 🦏🥛

One thing that can’t be denied, we’re talking about it WAY more than if we just got another Joel & Ellie adventure.

I feel the only failing of the game was the monumental whiplash of going from the climax of Ellie's story to the start of act 1 for Abby's. Abby had finished protagging after she killed Joel, and the first handful of her scenes following the perspective switch felt aimless because she no longer had any desire driving her actions, and needed to start a whole new arc from scratch. It was the stalling of momentum that made the switch so frustrating. It took me a couple of hours to really twig that this was more than just a truncated handful of flashbacks; it's an entire game-within-a-game. This was compounded by the plot of Abby's half having almost nothing to do with Ellie's half, except the handful of points where characters from the two groups intersected. Having both sets of characters caught up in a unifying set of surrounding problems and goals would have given Abby's half more drive. I think it's worth living with the few flaws in order to have such an ambitious story. Naughty Dog set themselves a monumental task in trying to overcome the reflexive tribal instinct that we all slip into so terrifyingly easily. The story of both games shows us time and again that it takes place in a world so brutal that no one is allowed the luxury of remaining a good person with clean hands. And yet we can't help but make judgements of right and wrong based on who we knew first or who we like more.

The way i understood the ending was that ellie wasnt that much hurt from joels death but because she didnt forgave him in life, and, as she says, she wanted to try, then she goes hunting for abby thinking that will make her feel better, later realizing that it wont make her feel better and thus killing abby wont help her sleep and it would be pointless to kill her and leave the kid to die. This is also seen with abby that even tho she killed joel and avenged his father she still cant sleep well, only when she helps the kids she starts to rest

A game about love, loss, vengeance and finding humanity. i loved this game it shows that the world of last of us is a small world, i feel like it makes sense for Joel to die because the truth is he isn't a good person no one is in the world of last of us is, there are only survivors and when u survive in the world of last of us you survive at the cost of other people. many people are mad at the ending but its an amazing ending, because Ellie stepped up to be the better person even though Abby has done that a couple of time by letting Ellie live multiple times. People hate Abby's character but she is a conflicted character who is afraid of the idea of opening up. i feel Abby being Buff is a very smart decision from Naughty Dog's side as i feel like Ellie and Abby are two types of people, Ellie withered in sorrow and became a shell of her former self and Abby became stronger with one goal in her mind after her father's death and it was vengeance. Many people are angry over how Joel died and i think his death made sense as if it were for Joel from the first game sure he would have been able to see an ambush from a mile away but this Joel within those 5 years found his humanity started to trust people more. Life for Joel wasn't all about surviving its about making sure Ellie (his second shot at life) gets to feel welcomed, loved and cared, you cant do this without opening up. When you open up you start to trust people more and you are vulnerable. The ending in my opinion is magnificent, Ellie forgives Abby and lets her go, like a good person, its an "Eye for an eye" situation, Joel kills Abby's father and Abby takes vengeance by killing him the fight is settled. Ellie forgives Abby thus ending the cycle. People were mad over the fact that "Ellie only realized vengeance is bad after all the killing she did", i see where most people come from, but its one of those things when you embark on this journey the final prize always seems glorious and worthy of the risk and to make things worse the idea of it only becomes better and better as time goes on but when you get their it aint worth it. overall one of the best games i have ever played. It also showcase how hate is very much a strong emotion how much it propels people to get what they think is rightfully theirs. If you are mad at Joel going straight into an ambush you need to think about this its been 5 years since the first game, Joel isn't that guy anymore he knows what it feels like to care and be cared, when saw Abby he didn't see her as a threat he only saw her as girl who is around Ellie's age. See Joel was in a place where he was loved and loves someone Ellie, believe it or not sometimes its easier to be hated by everyone, than be loved because love does this weird thing where you feel welcomed and comfortable and being that Jackson area he was a respected part of that neighborhood, so when Joel saw Abby he could only think of this girl no older than Ellie,not the inevitable danger.

"Those were your people." "YOU'RE my people!" That exchange will always give me chills

4:17 "Literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault" Sorry, but no. This is probably the main divide in the player base narrowed down to a single sentence: One part of the player base will buy this premise - you, as a player - did. Another part of the player base will not accept it as a logical conclusion, because... Well because they don't buy it. The Last of Us as a story world goes to great lengths to show how fucked up humanity is at this point. How much of basic society has fallen apart and been destroyed, core values eroded. Thinking for a second that a potential cure (remember - POTENTIAL) would have changed it, is deeply naïve perspective. The Fireflies of the first game won't even pay Joel what they owe him - and you expect them to simply give out the cure if they managed to get it instead of holding it as leverage? What makes you think there won't be conflict for it? Besides, even if they were such ideal people trying to make the world a better place again, they completely lack the infrastructure to produce the necessary quantities. And if word did break out, people infected would be more than ordinarily desperate to gain access to it. The cure might even be lost in that case, with many groups fighting to gain it. Where the 2nd game fails for many is in gaining sympathy for Abby who, by all means, has the deck stacked against her from the start. Hell, there's very few redeeming qualities about her character to begin with, and they by no means improve by having her brutally murder a character most players held dear BEFORE giving any background to her motivation. I didn't mind killing Joel, I had an issue with the way it was executed. Joel is supposed to be a smart character, but he and Tommy - veterans of this world who in the previous game trusted practically no one and Joel even recognized an ambush in the first game - blindly chooses to trust someone they do not know. Having Abby brutally murder Joel only adds to the disdain many players feel, and gaining sympathy from that point forward is a very, very difficult task. The game succeeds to garner sympathy for her with some players, while with others - not so much. I've seen streamers actively cheer when one of her companions died, and quite a handful even jokingly lets Ellie kill Abby during their confrontation while saying "There we go! The end!" The story and the premise is good, and it could have been a great game with the right tweaks and a different ordering of events. I do feel it necessary to clarify that the idea that every death that happens following the first game to be Joel's fault is what Naughty Dog wants you to believe, even though that logic doesn't make any sense in the post-apocalyptic world of The Last of Us. Letting Ellie die for a potential cure to be gained by a minor terrorist-like cell who wouldn't even deliver on the deal that got them the cure to begin, and thinking the world would become a better place thanks to them, is more wish thinking than reality. Edit: Well... This blew up substantially. I'm seeing a lot of people defend the death of Joel, as well as his (and Tommys) newfound trust in humans, so I thought I would make a short follow-up comment. I definitely can buy the development that Joel has changed from the distrusting, paranoid character of part 1. The issue lies in the fact that I don't actually see that change in action, or at least don't notice it well enough, prior to his death. I - as a player - didn't see that change in the game, while other players who disagree with me - some of you - did. From my perspective it's a decision to let the player fill out the blanks, and I don't consider that a good execution when it comes to a major character such as Joel, which leads back to my point of the timing and manner of his death. If you include a minor scene where we actively see Joel having changed, I'm far more inclined to believe him and Tommy being so trustworthy of a band of soldier-looking folk. I'll still have trouble buying into it, but it might pass. Again, the issue is not the death of Joel, but the execution of it. I would have much rather seen a more elaborate plot line, where one of Abby's friends infiltrated Jackson, gathered intel, and the group then set up a trap by capturing someone Joel cares for, such as Ellie. It would make the group not only look smarter, as in people who has a plan of action, but also give some of the many minor characters some much needed depth. That way, when Ellie kills the mole, it matters more as well. "How could you?!" - argument and so forth. Perhaps even have the mole character regret his/her actions. I have, by the way, read many wellwritten responses and a couple furious ones, and while I won't respond to any of them due to lack of time, I will say this: Part 2, to me, was a game with huge potential and promise that sadly didn't live up to expectation and could have been better with adjustments. And that's why many players are disappointed. I know many others feel differently, but when any narrative story creates such a huge divide in its reception, it means that the story failed to tell itself in a way that clearly appeal to the majority of people. And that's not positive. I can to some degree respect Naughty Dog for being brave in the sense that they had ambition and tried something truly radical and different. I just wished it had been executed better.

Funny thing is I remember during the sniper segment I was getting so angry and was literally saying " I swear to god I'm gonna fuck this dude up when I get there" and then it blew my mind when it was Tommy.

The fact that Abby is actually Joel (even down to the carrying the child away at the end) seems to be missed by way too many people

Great video, however: I disagree with the notion that Ellie let Abby go because "One more death was too much", like us Ellie learned more about Abby through her journey. It was easy to kill all those goons because they weren't people to us or Ellie, but every person you kill from the Squad that took out Joel you learn something about, and it visibly harder for Ellie to kill every single one of them. By the time she reaches Abby at the end, she knows a lot about Abby, (not as much as us, but still) enough so that Abby isn't just an evil villain to her anymore, she's a person. A person that's just trying to keep someone else safe.

My biggest problem was the timing of Abby's section. Leaving me on a cliffhanger was not the best idea. I was automatically in a rushed state to get back to what i thought, at the time to be the main story and to Ellie. I didn't mind playing as Abby at first, even thought it kind of cool to be getting a view from the other side of the fence. Then it dragged on and on and on, it completely killed the game for me. If they had shortened Abby's section and had it start right after Ellie, Jessie, and Tommy decide to return to Jackson, the whole cliffhanger thing wouldn't of been an issue. Plus i think it would of made for a far more dramatic scene when Abby finally reaches the theater. As it stands, when Abby reaches the theater we already know what happens. I think it would of played much better if we had no clue what the game was about to make us do as Abby. Aside from the quite obvious, upcoming boss fight with Ellie. I think with that small change in timing I'd of had a far better time of it.

The story definitely messed with my head and emotions, but I don't think it hit me quite as hard as it did for others, because my entire thought process towards the actions of every character's actions was "what you're doing is really messed up, and I don't really like you for it, but at the same time, I empathize, and I get it." For one reason or another, I was already at that emotional place the story was trying to take me before I played it. The execution is a bit messy and absolutely long-winded, but all in all, I think it did a really good job, even if it did sort of stumble across the finish line. I respect any story that dares to be ambitious and tries to do something challenging, so I can forgive a some missteps in execution.

That’s a huge stretch/leap to claim that literally every death after the first game is Joel’s fault, as if finding a “cure,” for this virus would stop these murdering groups from killing each other.

It’s also worth noting that the kissing scene in question, while not in the game until late, was in one of the most prominent trailers for the game. So a large part of the audience will have already experienced most of the scene in question before even playing the game.

literally the only thing i dont like about the story is how it was arranged with all its flashbacks and stuff. i think if they put it a bit more into chronological order the humanization of abby wouldve been more effective and also i personally prefer the more straight forward aproach to story telling. other than that i think this is actually a pretty damn good game

In the words of a certain god of war: "This path you walk: vengeance. You will find no peace. I know."

The Last of Us Part II. Showing how so much of nerd culture confuses pandering for respect, and instant gratification for quality.

I think the intensity and “fun” of the violence is supposed to sour your opinion about violent revenge. The fact that it’s so bloody and so intense where it makes you go “holy shit” may be the point.

What I liked about TLoS2: Abby was the most forgiving character in the whole game. Think about it: she let Ellie and Tommy live twice (Tommy thrice, due to the sniper scene); and in their final combat, Abby said she didn't want to fight. And her mercy was rewarded because it was Tommy who found her location, and it was Ellie who saved her and Lev from dying at that beach. If she had killed either one of them when she had the chance, she wouldn't be alive to find her happy ending with the Fireflies. Abby was out to kill Ellie as vengeance for Owen's death, but let it go due to Lev. Ellie, on the other hand, stopped at the critical moment and showed Abby the same mercy Abby showed her, without prompting from anyone else. So by the end of the story, Ellie's capacity to let it go grew much bigger than Abby's. And if you frame it that way, then the ending was the start of Ellie's healing. She lost everything, so she had a fresh start, and potentially a better life ahead (just as Abby letting Ellie go saved her life down the line, Ellie's life might be improved in some way by her learning to let her hatred go).

I loved it. Had no clue on media around it. Thought everyone would love it. Was shocked at some reactions. But then again, I didn't watch CNN or Fox talk about it before I PLAYED! So I just had my own non slanted real opinion. Great game!!!!

“The story is concerned with how violence tears us apart but then tells us to have fun with arrows that show dynamite”....BRUH😂😂😂

The story is more challenging and draining than the highest difficulty setting in this game.

People say that Joel's death is unsatisfying, initially that might be true in an intentional way. His death stays unsatisfying, only if you don't play the entire game.I saw many say Joel saving Abby was out of character, but the game makes it clear by the end that Joel was trying to become a better person FOR ELLIE, In the first game Joel would have left Abby in the snow, but he has opened up during the four years in Jackson to become a better person. It's what makes it so sad, that his last act, the one that got him killed, was an act of kindness towards someone he didn't even know. Maybe he did it purely to show Ellie how he's changed, or maybe he has truly become a better person. I think that's a perfect, tragic way to set up the themes the game developes on.

honestly in a way the gameplay parts of killing lots of enemies worked for me. Even the random human enemies you fight have character, they're very very human. I feel *bad* killing so many of them, listening to them gurgle on their blood and die, or swearing and praying when theyre hurt, or the other enemies calling out your last victim by name and grieving them. It hammers home Ellie's path in a way I don't think anything else could've. When you do a particularly heinous kill, especially when the situation doesnt call for that much violence, Dina will say different lines to make you feel guilty. Like "Jesus Ellie" in a horrified tone. Also a lot of sections can be played where you dont kill the enemies at all and can almost completely stealth or make the infected kill the humans for you. So I would disagree in saying the game encourages you to use excessive violence, but I do see your point as well

I absolutely appreciated and even enjoyed playing as Abby because I actually like her character. That trick totally worked on me

Something the game doesn't talk about when it comes to the cure is that there is NO guarantee that the Fireflies would have distributed it fairly. They would have had a monopoly on mankind's survival and the power to capitalize on it.

You always see the good in the story (even when I don't agree with you). To be clear, for this game and its story, I completely agree (just speaking generally in my previous comment). And I had the same reaction with the final fight in the ocean... that I just wanted both of them to STOP.

Fun fact: The end screen with the boat on the beach shows us that Abby and Lev made it to Catalina Island where the fireflies are stationed. In the background we see a dome like building meaning that's where the fireflies are and that's where Abby and Lev are right now :)

“Show don’t tell” is exactly what I was thinking during my play through as Abby.

The only criticism I had for the game was that certain sections seemed to drag out for too long and even with the great level of detail to all the areas and sections, they felt very empty. From my perspective, it feels like most of the hate is coming from people who painted a picture in their heads of what the story was going to be and where it was going to go rather than seeing it as a blank canvas and letting the picture paint itself as they played the game. If you go into something with your expectations being only on what you want to see then you’re robbing yourself of the surprise of what may or may not happen.

the "save the zebra moment" felt to obvious to me. too literal, it made me laugh and it shouldn't. I prefer saving the cat to be a metaphor for good side in general. if someone just saves an actual cat it doesn't work for me

I'm very happy to see a positive video on the game. I love the part where you mention that people only base their judgement on spoilers instead of playing it themselves. I really loved the game personally and it brought out every emotion possible, thanks for the great video.

All Just Write videos are manipulative... but I don't mean that in a derogatory sense.

Something I want to mention here is that you can actually complete this game while killing relatively few people. There are actually few encounters in the game were you *must* kill people. With the vast majority of the enemies, you can sneak by them without hurting anyone at all. That said, doing so is definitely more difficult and requires more patience than just putting arrows through throats. I'm wondering if the reviewer failed to notice this option, or just didn't bother. Either option says some interesting things about how video games have conditioned players to respond to situations within games.

What a game for the first time nobody wins in this game,the ending almost broke me of how depressing it is but man so thankful that this is a game,story like this wouldn't work at all for a movie. Even so some people still blasted it just because "they killed my man"

While I wholeheartedly agree that Joel is a bad dude (and I think it's part of what makes him a super interesting character), I agree with his choice at the end of the first game for one reason: They were not giving Ellie the choice. They didn't even bother waking her up to ask her what she wanted. They were just going to take it. Now, I think she would've volunteered, but that doesn't matter. They weren't planning on asking. I think Joel should've just been honest with her. She still would've been pissed, but she'd have to understand that they were not even going to ask her what she wanted.

When you actually put the game down and look at it. This game was never about the revenge. It was about the forgiveness. Between Ellie and Joel Ellie and herself. And Abby and Ellie. It's about getting over the immediate emotions you have and go on living the best life you can

Maybe It was just the fact that this was the second game in a well established serie. This story would have worked wonders if I didnt care sooo much more about one group that the other. And considering most conflicts in stories are about asking the audience to choose a side, even if its to keep fighting or stop, wouldn't you choose the original characters if you had to pick?

I don't really have an issue with joel being killed. I believe it was expected. But I do have an issue with the circumstances of his death. I think it was too coincidental that Abby found right away the guy that she was looking for for years! Also how can you make her sympathetic when she tortures to death without any hesitation a man that saved her life like half an hour ago? Her motive for revenge is relatable but her actions seemed too cruel at least for me. So even when the game tried to humanise her it did not work for me. I was always thinking about how cruel she was towards someone whom she hated admitetally for good reason but ultimately saved her life. I mean she could at least give him a quick death...

In a podcast Druckmann said that he never wanted to make the player sympathize with Abby. He wanted to show the other side of the story from a different perspective. And the game does that perfectly. Its not a bad story or game only because its not what people wanted or expected. If people dont like it, thats fine. But then it is a problem of the player, not the game. Personal taste.

I'm going to be honest with everyone right now I'm a fan of the first Last of Us and I also like The Last of Us Part 2 just putting that out there

The problem with people saying that "if they played Abby first before killing Joel then everything would be fine" is that they missed the entire point. It's easier to emphatize with a stranger who you saw just experience grief and pain at the start. It's harder to do so on someone you hate. The game literally wanted to challenge your perspective and not be bias about one character. Which a lot of people clearly failed. XD

the thing about this game is, we already know everyone is selfish and thinks they're right and others are wrong. that's practically the thesis of joel's actions at the end of the last of us. and so telling me that again just doesn't do it for me. i would have preferred a story about ellie overcoming that mentality in spite of the entire rest of the world being that way, interwoven with her finding out about what joel did and how to deal with that relationship. i wanted ellie to prove joel wrong

People hate this game. Because Joel didn't get plot armor.

There was no guarantee that the surgery would have produced a cure. Plain and simple killing Ellie for the sake of a cure without her consent would still have been murder.

Tommy being the sniper is not a surprise. The player knows he's in town and they had a flashback sequence where you go sniping with him and they mention how good he is.

I disagree with how extreme the ludonarrative dissonance is. The later part dealing with the rattlers is justified because they game shows you they are literally slave owners. And as you said the earlier violence with the wolves and scars is meant to show that disconnect. If I'm not mistaken one can also sneak past a lot of enemies, only missing out on valuable resources

honestly the way i see it, seeing abby in the state she was after the rattle snakes had her was a worse punishment then ellie killing her. and her absolute surrender confirms this. she only fights because you force her to by threatening lev. great part of the game. absolutely jarring

I don’t even want to call abby a “villain”. She had as much a right to do what she did as Ellie and Joel.

I think the best stories are those that make us want to talk about and discuss it, try to understand and exchange opinions about it. TLOU Part II seems to have achieved that. I was quite satisfied with the game and its story, but I like to read other people with different opinions with solid arguments.

I think they structured it the way that they did because, if you played for 10 hours as Abby *before* she picked up the golf club, the players would feel BETRAYED

This is going to be one of those video games that leads to many video essays for years to come and then later 10 year refreshers comparing it to the types of games that tried to do something similar to The Last of Us 2. It's interesting because although I personally think it's an excellent game I don't think what it did is something so mind blowing that it deserves to have a "controversy". It should be hailed for good video game story and gameplay, but outside of the "ludo-narrative dissonance" (which come on pretty much every video game is going to have to some degree) I don't think the game did anything so absurd that people are LITERALLY sending death threats to the fucking voice actress for Abby like fucking sociopaths. But thats just me.

I also quite like at part II is it's own thing, not just tying to be the same game as the first one and aiming to hit the same beats.

Finally, a positive review of TLOU2. I liked the first game and spent over 100 hours on it. However, for TLOU2, I have just been on and off and haven't beaten the game yet. I just cannot get into it, However, It doesn't mean that I hate the game like everyone else does over the Internet. The story isn't good but not bad as trash or sh*t like people criticized it either. I really like the franchise and I really hope there will be TLOU3 someday.

First, loved your video. Second, I feel like the passing of the game killed my investment in the story. So it all became a bad magic trick where you can see the strings. In the end, I was not conflicted, just bored. Not looking forward to the “Ludonarrative dissonance” discussion again haha

I may sound like a complete lunatic, but by the end of The Last of Us 2, I ended up hating Ellie more than Abby. I understand Ellie's motive, but the fact that she threw away things like a family, settling down, and a new life, things that an ordinary person rarely gets (much more in a zombie apocalypse), made me illustrate her from that point on as a vindictive and selfish person, a big detour from the Ellie we all knew and loved in the first game. What she should have done, as painful as it may sound, is to cope with the fact that Joel is dead and that killing Abby will not bring him back no matter how hard she tried. At the end of the game, Ellie's concluding predicament is a just one, with her decisions amounting to her experiencing her greatest fear: being left alone. Abby on the other hand is a much more interesting case. I'll admit that I also hated Abby in the beginning. But as time went on, and more and more of her friends end up dead at the hands of Tommy and Ellie, I realized she is already paying the price for killing Joel. And that is punishment enough. Additionally, we kind of see a major character development for Abby as she transitions from a mindless drone of the WLF, to a forgiving and self-thinking individual, sacrificing her already existing brotherhood to save and protect Yara and Lev. By the time of their encounter at the theater, I believe that Abby saw through the illusion and tried to break the circle of revenge by sparing Dina and Ellie. At that point, I eventually saw Abby as a mature and developed character looking to end the circle of killing that she unknowingly instigated with her murder of Joel.

You should be allowed to like or dislike a game, but the majority of dislikers are vocal and set out to make others dislike it and make the game fail. Respect needed.

I agree with everything up to the idea of Ellie being fine with ending lives until she finds one in particular. Ellie doesn't hate any of the basic Wolves, so her killing them is often dispassionate at best and frustrated at worst. It's only when she kills someone who she has an emotional connection to that she feels that destructive pain of revenge. You can actually feel this happen as you play in a weird way. The first time I killed a dog in this game, I felt like an absolute trash bag of a person, but by the 5th one, it was just as dispassionate as any of the people with names lives I snuffed out simply because they were in my way. So, I don't think it's actually dissonant, but entirely intended.

TLOU2 took the world and story of the first game and did something entirely different. But the underlying theme was the same. In the first game, it at first seems to be about the struggle for survival, but it is really about the characters struggling to hold onto their humanity in spite of the terrible decisions and actions they commit. In TLOU we understood the purpose of Joel and Ellie's journey. They were on a mission where the stakes were a cure to the infection that caused the collapse of the world. Anything they did was therefore justified, because it was another step towards saving the human race. And this was what made the ending so shocking, because Joel did the unthinkable due to his feelings for Ellie. But it kept with the the story's theme. In Joel's mind, his saving Ellie was justified, because the bond between them represented the last bit of humanity he had in the world, and he would fight for it at all costs. Whether he was driven more by weakness or love was beyond the point. In the second game, on the surface, the characters' motives appear clear. They are driven by hate. But the main theme is not revenge. Like in TLOU, it is about retaining some shred of humanity in a cruel and unforgiving world. At the end of the game Ellie sees this in the bond between Abby and Lev at the beach. She also realizes that Lev will likely die without Abby, or go on to become another monster in their cycle of revenge--this being the person who had spoken up to save Ellie and Dina from Abby's rage in the theater. It was clear in the cut scene how Ellie was internally conflicted and about to let the two go without a fight. But Ellie's vision of a dead Joel triggered the hate still inside. In the end, she does spare Abby though. And by doing so, Ellie beaks the cycle of hatred and stops herself from becoming a complete monster. The deeper meaning of this action is further shown in the closing scene between her and Joel. The world had become a hard place that brought out the worst in people, but not without reason. Joel did what he did, because as much as Ellie's life would've meant to the world in finding a cure, she'd already become everything to him. The brief flashback of Joel on the guitar before she let Abby go reminded her of this, and that if she was ever going to hold on to her humanity she'd have to learn to forgive not only Joel for the ugliness the world brought out of him, but others too. Ellie's failure to do this at first ultimately cost her so much, as she had gotten others killed, lost Dina, and become unable to play the guitar. It likely would have consumed her in the end. But she was fortunately able to regain her capacity to be a human again. We can also infer that she got much needed closure by finally making amends for the actions of Joel, and in the process, could honor his memory. That is exceptional writing. Of course the story did have some plot holes in other areas, but the heart of the story is still a solid one, and stands on its own while building on what the first game laid out. But because it dared to do it differently and in a complex way, people were disappointed.

At 10:40 ,Did anyone else notice when Abby grabs lev by the shoulders, it’s shot in the same way joel holds sarah after killing the “coopers”,could be a coincidence but the camera angle is the exact same,the way she grabs him is the same Nd he’s on the verge of crying like Sarah,Thas a cool parallel

2:19 lmao idk if people liked the game but saying “ it was so garbage, I’m glad I didn’t buy it” I’m like r u high why don’t you play it first

I feel dumb: because of how fast everything was going with the sniper scene, I didn’t realize the sniper was Tommy 😳

Having not finish this video I feel like a large part of people's opinion on the quality of part 2 depends on how they saw Joel's act at the end of part 1 the people who agreed with Joel and thought that the game had an overall had a theme of Hope and second chances are more inclined to dislike part 2 and people disagreed with him and thought that the themes of part 1 were more about the selfishness of humanity are more inclined to like part 2

I liked this game. I love revenge stories, and being able to look at both sides of a story and examine the same events from multiple perspectives...Days 1 and 2 of Abby’s story just ooze dramatic irony and I enjoyed it. The game is not without its flaws. *SPOILERS* Ellie deciding not to kill Abby didn’t feel very foreshadowed. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the idea, but I feel if she had one final conversation with Abby where she asked something like “why did you do it? Did your nightmares go away? Did the screaming finally stop?” and Abby would say no, it would help Ellie realize that her PTSD won’t just go away with Abbys death, and that just as revenge once felt hollow for Abby it would feel so for Ellie. ...but we don’t actually see that shit. You are left to entirely fill in your own reason. Nonetheless, I enjoyed it, albeit not as much as the first one. But it’s gameplay was still great and it’s visuals awesome (even though the lack of exploration and dialogue between stealth encounters hurt the pacing.) I came to care for the new characters, especially Lev, who was stupendously well acted and voiced. Abbys Day 3 is one of the best set pieces in any action game I’ve played recently, and it made full use of the enhanced visuals, action and weapons. Her relationship with Lev was rushed but I liked it a lot anyways, and the “You’re my people!” like really hammered home how Abby has become like Joel.

Fun fact: people who unironiclly use the user score for metacritc and rotten tomatoes to show how bad thing Is bad don't count

What I love was that Abby was, in reality, very similar to Ellie. They were fighting for similar things. And in the end-Abby became a character similar to Joel.

Did everyone pay attention to Joel's expressions in the moments before the first swing? Did it look like he was clearly contemplating that, "this is it, my demons finally caught up to me." Then proceeds to face those demons head on, accepting the fate (he does that thing with his mouth, then says get it over with)?

Well said! The emotional adventure the player can go through with this game is unlike anything before. I salute you, man. Amazing take. This deserves more views.

This game challenged me, in a good way, on so many different levels. I am uplifted and haunted and pained. It's honestly the change in the main menu screen that provides a final, small glimpse of hope for the future.

I’m a pretty simple guy. If I see a game, movie, or book that I’m interested in, I get excited and look forward to experiencing its story. This game was no exception. Now, I must have been another plain of existence or something, because I didn’t see or hear any of the “leaks” for this game until after I finished the it. So one could say I went in with as close of an ideal perspective as Naughty Dog could ask for. And for me, the story probably achieved the feelings it was meaning to invoke. This was probably due to the fact that I only had the speculations about Ellie and Abby’s relationship that were made when we first saw Abby in the gameplay trailer LITERALLY YEARS AGO! So I went in to this game thinking that Abby was Ellie’s mother, and that the story would tell her history, who Ellie’s father was, and possibly even explain more about Ellie’s immunity. So for the first two hours of the game, I thought Abby was in a flashback. And when I saw Joel save her from the infected horde, I was thinking; NO WAY, JOEL IS TOTALLY ELLIE’S REAL DAD! AND NEITHER OF THEM KNOW IT! And the idea of Joel and Tommy just walking into a hideout full of armed strangers didn’t really strike me as odd at first, because I was still thinking this whole thing is in then past. This could be the group that Joel and Tommy were part of when they did those “unspeakable things” Joel refers to in the first game. And they hadn’t learned to be as cautious as they should be yet. The moment I realized that Abby wasn’t a flashback didn’t even come when she shot his leg. It only came after I saw that Joel’s entire right knee was gone did I think; “oh, this is for real”. So that was a twist for me. And then then you all know the rest of it by now. Like I said before, because I went into this game basically blind in regards to spoilers, I’d say for me it did its job. At the two critical points where Abby and Ellie face off, I didn’t want either to die. When Abby killed Joel, I was right there with Ellie, hating her guts. But by the time we had returned as Abby to the theater, I was genuinely concerned with who was going to walk out afterward. And that was the story’s goal in my opinion. So am I glad that Joel’s dead, no. But am I happy there are new potential character arcs and new stories to experience, yes. So please play the game through yourself even if you say you’ve already known the full story for months. It really does deserve at least one play through.

I loved this game. It completely wrecked me. I understand why people didn’t like the direction but I loved it. This game took a lot of risks when they could have just played it safe. I truly believe this game will age well over time. But I truly understand why people disagree with me. On a side note, I’m reading the comments and the people on here are so friendly and smart. I appreciate everyone debating and not just screaming at each other.

At the end I felt like ellie did get a closure on the situation with Joel nd finally made peace with it,ofcourse it had a cost but I did feel satisfied. Don't know where she was goin but I guess somethings have to be left for the next installment. It was truly a masterpiece, and I understand why someone would use the word masterpiece not beautiful or any other adjective because this game was straight up filled with carnage darkness nd described the process ellie went thru to finally grow out of it. I loved how they actually fucked us up, I had the same reaction on both one on ones like I DONT WANT TO DO THIS. Its not like these type of stories have not been done before but the something about this riled my emotions like never before nd it was successful so I think they did a great job

This is really interesting. Basically every single thing you point out liking, is something I see myself loathing about this game's writing. It all felt manipulative and contrived, to the point that I was completely taken out of the story and didn't feel a thing. I could see the tricks they were trying to use on me and just wouldn't have any of it. I guess that's my loss. Thanks for the vid anyhow.

One of my favourite examples of this game making me feel completely unjustified in my/Ellie's revenge quest, and a total scumbag by extension, is when I killed this dog and someone shouted their name. It was Bear. Then, the first day as Abby, I'm playing fetch with that same dog. And he's so fucking cute... I was like, "Holy shit. I killed this pupper." and I had to stop throwing the ball, got way too emotional.

They set up the Rattlers as trash who enslave people so her killing them is not really on par with killing seraphites or WLF. In fact, killing each type of enemy was a different experience as I discovered more about them--which I'd say is a strength in the storytelling. Also, how about Ellie accidentally being a savior to those people in bondage but then feeling nothing for it? She is so entrenched in revenge that she doesn't care about who she saves or kills (unless they're prego which reminds her of Dina), which shows some consistency. Her losing her two fingers at the end is also symbolic in three ways: A) that hand now only has the fingers used to make the peace sign, B) her revenge rampage took from her in large part the ability to play guitar, which is how she feels connected to the good things about Joel (as shown by the image of Joel playing guitar being the image that stops her from killing Abby), and C) three fingers equals Last of Us Part III coming to PS5. BOOM.

Best game ever for me. Is refreshing to see new concept. I am invested emotionally.

I like it but I would have changed a few things: #1: I wouldn't have let the player play as Abby against Ellie...it felt too weird #2: A little less time with Abby and a little more with Ellie... #3: I would have loved if there were more scenes in Jackson, maybe just an hour in the beginning. #4: See more of Ellie's story with Cat, since we only read about her in her diary... Cat is her first love-interest after Riley so it is super important for her, Ellie describes a moment she had with Cat where they kissed and she was afraid she infected Cat by kissing her, this would have made a really good scene. #5: More scenes with Joel before everything went down, so not just the flashbacks we get after we know what happens to Joel, some more flashbacks with him before would have been good. I do think the ending was so well done... seeing Abby so worn out, sun burned and thin was very tough to watch and gave you just that bit of extra empathy which led you (at least me) to not want to kill her. The game is very depressing and sad but it is damn good nonetheless and the acting is fantastic.

I disagree with only one point you've made. The scene with the Zebra wasn't put in for us to like Abby. It was put in to show, or emphasize, the Doctor had a good heart. Which gives his character more meaning in the overall story. Abby wasn't as invested at that moment. 5:41 Good vid.

Due to the cliffhanger preceding Abby’s story, I was more or less going through it as quickly as possible and was just wanting to get back to the main story. I was less interested in her and her friends. However the biggest problem is that once Abby’s story was over and we go back to the theater where she’s already killed Jesse and she shoots Tommy and almost kills Dina any goodwill I head towards her vanished. I went from thinking she was OK back to thinking she was an a-hole again.

i ALWAYS complained about Abby’s introduction to the last of us universe until i thought about one of the major themes that part 2 was trying to convey. Joel’s introduction to tlou universe is one that is sympathetic. He practically lost his whole world through the death of his daughter. We then go through an entire journey with Joel and Ellie, rooting for their relationship to eventually bud. Then we get to that development but… it’s threatened by the fireflies. We see them as the enemy because we know Joels backstory and the pain hes been through, we can excuse him possibly dooming humanity due to our pity for him. We don’t necessarily get the chance to see the rawness of his action until part 2. Part 2 dismantles a lot of those praises towards Joel and shows him in his true form… a broken man who was scared, not a hero, but a man who possibly ruined humanity’s chance to preserve his own humanity. We dont get that with Abby. Abby is introduced to us as this woman who basically be our joel to death. We are shown true rawness with Abby and her action towards us. We dont get the sympathetic backstory because it is not needed… what she did was just wrong and the game wants us to know that. That only allows her redemption arc to carry far much more weight and allows us to contemplate our hate for her. Abby allows us gamers to view her greyness differently than joel within part 2… we are not hypnotized by the sad backstory but, rather allow ourselves to at least understand her motives and somewhat like her. Part 2 really breaks the barriers of moral greyness and makes us view characters with a more complex lense than just good and bad.

Here’s my problem with the whole “every death is Joel’s fault” argument: show me one parent in these circumstances that wouldn’t do the same thing Joel did in the final act of the first game. I’d argue that you can’t. I know I would do that and more for my kids. They at least would be alive to hate me for it later.