Me too! I have a 9-speed 3X drivetrain on my touring bike and an 8-speed 3X drivetrain on my mountain bike.

It's the future! 3X was never a problem in the first place. I wouldn't use anything else now.

3x9 is probably best ever invented if you want efficient chain line, long lasting system, and good gear range all in one package, IMHO.

I’m still 3x as well, most of the time. 1x has a place, but general utility and adaptability is it. Glad to see you’ve regained your sanity.

It's really too bad that nearly all of the QBP brands Salsa, Surly, etc with their touring focused all road bikes are now spec'ed 1X. Maybe you will help influence a return of more sensible gearing for these types of bikes.

Sounds like my 2011, Co-Motion touring bike with 3x9. :-)

The best thing about triples is even if you live in a (relatively) flat area like I do you can just sit in the middle chainring and use the other two only when you want them. Less is not more in this case, lol.

I just stripped a '97 Hardrock to the frame and rebuilt it as a flat-bar gravel bike with a rigid fork. My comfortable cadence range is quite narrow, so I like a tight cassette, but I still wanted a low (~20 gear-inches) climbing gear. Went with a Deore 42-32-22 10 speed crankset, front derailleur, and front shifter; a SRAM 12-27 10 speed cassette; an Ultegra RX (clutched) rear derailleur; and a Tiagra 4700 flat bar shifter for the back.

3x10 for me. Got a Shimano 9sp MTB Shadow derailleur in the back with 10 speed road bar ends. Silky

I was so, so happy for my 3x9 on a bike tour in eastern Washington. I had a 700' climb on 7-8% grade with 20+ mph headwinds. I put the bike in the "Don't Be a Hero Gear" and rolled up at 3-4 mph easily.

79 year old boy here and totally agree with you. The manufactures keep trying to re-invent the wheel. I rarely have to adjust the front derailleur but adjust the rear about every 3 months.

I'm 42 and that's why I have the same set up, but with less maintenance friction thumbies/bar end levers, I want to keep having happy knees, and I like not having to faff with my bike. I like it, anyway.

@@timothydraper3687 The reason I stick with index shifting is my hearing is shot due to three years in the artillery. I just can't hear grinding gears anymore.

@@PeterC5263 That's interesting to know, my hearing isn't what it was since I saw The Prodigy playing live, I may need to do the same thing one day.

@@timothydraper3687 I had my share of concerts as well. One of which was Woodstock, six months after I got back from Vietnam in 1969.

Yes!

Just having granny gears is magic, ask any 4x4 guy what a 50s suburban can do with a real granny gear it's unbelievable

@@coreygolphenee9633 great analogy!

Just being able to drop lots os gear at once by using the front derraileur is magic when you get to a steep hill.... long live friction shifting comarades

@@coreygolphenee9633 That's part of the deal. Really strong riders have no use for real low gears. None.....so of course to them yeah the 1X is it........ Its all they need.......the thing being I'm not them,and they aren't me..........I really liked the 22/36 low gear on my last Kona XC bike.......I set it up myself that way.........having a bike racer or super strong rider like the guy who put this video out tell you what you need,and whats best.......is mildly ass nine for the average person out on his bike on a 19% grade.

Now if those cost reductions would've only made it to the consumer.... Personally, I recently installed an FD on a frame with a high direct mount. We would've needed that way sooner, the setup is so incredibly simply since all you have to do is getting the height correct and Shimano actually shipped mine with a small bracket to keep the FD from compressing together and a small sticker to dial the gap to the chain ring right. I have never setup an FD this quickly in my life. Including the cable installation I didn't spend even 10 minutes on it, a large part of wich I also wasted by oggling the FD and bike instead of actually working to install everything. Kinda sad it didn't catch on.

Another possible reason may simply be boredom - engineers like to be doing new things, and they may simply have been curious to see whether 1X could be implemented successfully.

@@gregsullivan7408 highly unlikely. Engineers are plenty busy constantly, and no business does anything anymore out of 'boredom'. Developing products to bring to the consumer market is way too costly to just do for fun. If I was bored when I was designing, it was a sign that I overlooked something on one of my projects that was about to blow up in my face. It's been said that engineering is like riding a bike...except the bike is on fire, and you're on fire, and everything else is on fire.

I'm a mechanical design engineer and your logic is impeccable. However you did forget to add the bike companies can reduce costs and charge extra to the customer for the 'benefits'. I just love capitalism.

@@FiveMinuteVelo Exactly, less gear but higher price because it weighs 200g less.

It's all a matter of opinion. On the other side, gear jumps don't matter much in gravel and some 12 speed cassettes have enormous gear range. You also have the simplicity of only having one shifter and having fewer things to potentially repair on the road. But again, it's all about what you value. One isn't better than the other. They each have different costs and benefits.

@@DrTomCruisin 12x is expensive and then if the front der breaks it just turns into a 1x on the small chainring :) therefore no repair is necessary. While 3x can get complicated, 2x really isn't that hard to figure out. Single speed is great but Regardless one of these options might have a wider range of functionality.

There he is! I immediately thought about what CYCLINGABOUT would opine regarding getting the necessary 17ish gear inches for touring. May a respectful debate ensure!

@@Red-ju4mi 12x doesn't need to be expensive! I did a Ratio Tech upgrade for almost nothing. I just waited until my 11 speed cassette needed to be replaced, bought a used GX derailleur, and sold my road derailleur. All told, the upgrade cost me around $100.

@@DilbertMuc This is an important distinction. Good point. That gets to why I said there are costs and benefits to both, and each is suited better for different people and different settings. One isn't "better" than the other.

Yep, and you could put slicks on the same bike and make use of that large chainring. It's the true one drivetrain for everything.

Personally a 1x is for those with a wallet full of money and wanting to stand out from the crowd. Same as internal cable routing; marketing at a price. Simplicity at the cost of your wallet and sanity isn't why I ride in my late 50s on a muddy trail...

I’ve ridden on my 1x mtb going on 3 years now without needing a single indexing adjustment. My new Ultegra 2x needs about about 2 adjustments a year to meet my standards. 1x is without debate an easier drivetrain to maintain

@@joen3992 You miss the point, its not about wallet and show off. front actually derailleur cost more, harder to maintain, heavier. I didn't miss the 2x at all, not even you are willing pay me to change back. However it make sense for Path Less Pedaled as he is more of gravel rider than mountain biking.

@@joen3992 you forget the introduction of dropper posts. I do technical MTB riding and a dropper post is one the best invention in the MTB imo. But with the remote on the bar, there is no (or less) space for front derailleur shifters. I prefer a clean and simple cockpit. So it all depends on what and how your ride.

@@joen3992 Marketing is what got people thinking a 2X was an unnecessary complication.........all it takes is repetition with well known people selling you what they want you to buy......now guys go on about how free they feel with no front mech, or how "aero" they feel with 1X.........or how neat it looks...........FFS. Sales work can do anything.

That's clever. I think I did this by accident on a recent build by mounting a too-short BB spindle, but it works nicely for the reasons you explained.

I’ve done the same thing on more than a few bikes. You get the use of the entire cassette off the big ring, with just the meaningful part of the cassette when things get vertical.

Well. The newer ft derailleurs and shifters index like magic every time,and have for some years now. They shift as fast and accurate as the rear shifter. Instantly. GRX especially.

I've used this method on my commuter bike for years... still just 2x8 with some tiny bailout gears. I go on many reeides without shifting the front derailleur, but it sure is nice to have on occasion.

@@bradsanders6954 i think people overstate the issue or just dont know or have the experience (or patience?) to adjust them. I have an old Giant x1000 with a grimy old acera x group set and it shifts just flawlessly, even with those horrible gripshifters.

I converted one of my 2x bikes to a 1x and ended up putting the 2x back on for the better range - my newer bikes are all 1x but I very much like the 2x..

My Diamondback Haanjo came stock 2x. I converted to 1x last year, but then converted back over the winter. I do like 1x on my Surly Ogre and Felt 9er hardtail.

Good choice. I like 1x for mtb, but everywhere else 2x is preferable, imo.

Don't listen to him but try it out yourself.

I was thinking of a 1x on a steel frame bike, as my aluminium frame bike got its crack (I am still lamenting it), and then, I compared the costs between a 1x and a 2x, the ratios I would have, and finally, it is only a question of time to grab the 2x version, even though one can expect less maintaining costs on the 1x. The purchase price is, in my case, higher for the 1x than with the 2x, even taking the shifters prices into account. Too bad the 3x are disappearing from the market, because though they may be more complicated to maintain, and even then, not by that much, they are darn versatile

Yeah true and a 3x gives more shifting range when operating that way over a 2x. I changed from a 3x10 to a 1x11 and I miss those extra gears on the front derailleur for some terrain!

One thing I noticed with a 1x11 is any dirt or banging hard in trails causes the shifting to not be so crisp and sometimes I'm tuning the derailleur more often through the year than on the 3x10. I might go back to a 3x but maybe a 3x9. My best shifting bike ever was a Shimano Deore XT 3x7 from the 1990s. I think having less gears improves shifting tolerances because each shift has a larger area it encompasses in the shift range.

@@practicalguy973 I recently built a couple of bikes to use for bike-packing. We envisage doing a lot of our mileage off-road and so I wanted as big a range of gears as possible for climbing while loaded up with camping gear. So I went 3x9 (components sourced cheaply on eBay) but I went slightly beyond the range spec for the rear derailleur. It means that the system cannot cope with the chain on the largest rear sprocket and the largest chain ring at the same time (but who would do that anyway, right?), but I have the most amazing range of gears for climbing and for road work. I opted for XTR derailleur with XT front mech and shifters, and the shifting is as sweet as you can imagine. 3x9 stuff is cheap on eBay, nobody wants it!

this is how I dropped my chain on a training ride. My team thought I bonked and laughed at me for about a month. It's not a tuning issue I've only ever dropped my chain on the bottom of climbs and it has only happened once on Shimano and once on Sensah.

I ease up pedal pressure even when downshifting the front, but the biggest grade I ever faced was like 9%.

I still run 9 speed and don't regret it. I also have 10 and 11 speed road bikes but I don't think they improve anywhere that I ride.

@@PRH123 This is why I like friction shifting as well. You can use all sorts of different parts in a pinch. Parts that don't work together when using proprietary indexed shifters. Everything must match. EVERYTHING on modern bikes is special and proprietary. I say boycott em all. DIY what we really want. Haha, soon 13 speeds will be a thing! I say skip that, go to fourteen. I'm using worn out 8or 9 speed Dura Ace bar ends on friction, 9 speed XT derailleur, 10 speed cassette and a 9 speed chain because that's what I had that day. I could use any cheap derailleur if it broke, most any chain and any 6- 9 speed cassette. If you bend your hanger, friction shifting keeps on shifting. The front shifter is fully trimmable for cross chaining.

I like 1x but having to choose between climbing and top speed is annoying

@@spitchgrizwald6198 based on what? In my experience the massive aluminium rear sprockets wear quicker and then accelerate chain wear.

@@spitchgrizwald6198 still though, what makes you think a thinner chain is more durable?

Sram eagle is 500% range

@Maciej Jan Długosz I haven't had to maintain anything yet The sram xx1 chain is terrible? It lasts ages

@Maciej Jan Długosz of course you have to change things I'm not 100% how much I've done on it but I've had the bike 6 months,no chain wear yet

⁠@@getstrongby4038Do the math and compare that to a 3x wide range touring set up. It's a lot more than 500%, believe it or not. Which may be ok for mtb or 'cross or flat roads and commuting. Which is what 1x was designed for. It's really nothing new. We used 1x for 'cross racing in the '80s! We didn't need anything close to 500%. Otherwise I'd have been dropped for certain. My mother also used 1x5 on her Schwinn cruiser in the '60s. 500% 'sounds' great, (not on paper though) but it's actually mere marketing BS. Something SRAM is great at. SRAM Eagle is also constant job security for me. I won't mention SRAM's constantly sucky hydro brakes we've been replacing warrantying and recalling for nearly 20 YEARS since they were called Avid. For this QC related problem alone I cannot recommend anything Sram to my favorite customers who value my expertise. Once you start hauling your household up big mountain passes, riding ALL day, every day, or merely riding pavement to get to trails, 1x is sorely lacking, at least for my uses.

Its real hard to buy a new mt bike with 2X........the bike design doesnt allow it........a gravel bike can still be a 2X.

@@bradsanders6954 back in 1983 on my first MTB I was running a Stronglight double with a 48 X 28 with a 5 speed rear. it was fine for my use the bike saw a lot of forestry logging and gravel roads.

Yep I know when 15 speed was on all top of the line bikes, 3 in front and 5 in the back or a 18 with 3 in front and 6 in the back for all top of the line, then a 24 that was 2x in front and 12 in back mostly for road but some were later made for extreme MBT stuff with all steel parts, with now 3x 12 for 36 is common for some road Pro stuff when going over biggest hills in some races like Tour De Frace or even tougher Giro De Italia cycling. In fact, it is in Italy where the Bianchi made the first road bikes with more than two gears using a Derailleur on the back gear, a 5 speed with a single speed in the front specifically for pro Italian riders in the Giro complaining how doing this race without more than 2 speed back Derailleur setup is leaving them unable to continue on stages due to race being mostly mountains.

@@caseysmith544 I had the first year Rockhopper they made,at the time it was a really cool bike........if a triple is tuned right it works fine, but 2X is fine these days with the cassettes coming in all sizes now.............it used to be a point of pride to run a tiny cassette on back with 12/22 or what ever,and 42/52 on front................now even pros run pretty realistic gears for climbing.

You won't believe me when i say I'm still looking for a 2x5 TODAY, why? The chain alignment.. i don't like today's new standards of the ever increasing number of rings because manufacturers do not tell consumers chains wear out faster the more rings you have, because the more rings, the chain alignment suffers, the result is faster wear and power losses, that's why they tried to offset it by creating a larger tire diameter to make the sprockets farther from each other thus lessening the strain on the chain, because using both smallest and largest cogs definitely misaligned the chain, so I'm going back to 2x5 to better preserve my chain, actually, I'm gonna build a NEW 2x5, my old 2x5 never worn-out its chain for a decade! THEY INCREASED THE SPEEDS NOWADAYS SO YOU WILL BUY A NEW CHAIN MORE OFTEN, MANUFACTURERS STRATEGY LOL

11-48 with a 40-42t crank works for me

But you're severely limited in range. If you ride on mostly relatively flat roads that's fine. If you ride in mountains you won't be able to BOTH pedal up long climbs AND pedal down them. If you don't need that capability or just coast down hills that's fine too. I tour and haul heavy loads and ride both pavement and trails in big mountains. Roads (IMHO) are simply a necessary evil to get to the dirt, and I don't want to waste time spinning madly on pavement, wearing junk out. With 1X, I'd need to choose a gear range either high or low. Can't have both, there's no way around that. I tried it and despised it. Fortunately on a borrowed bike. I'm a pro mechanic and also see wear and chainline issues with 1x. It's simply more job security, where my old 2 or 3x bikes last for decades. Also I'm an old road racer who's very sensitive to change in cadence. A 1x system has huge gaps between each gear, which is no good for my efficiency. If I want to be in the wrong gear constantly I ride my singlespeed or my fixed gear bikes! Thats how we trained every winter way back in the day. We emulated the Euro pros. Fixed gear in particular works on strengthening my weaknesses in cadence. It's French word, called 'souplesse'....... My 3x gears are 24,36,46 and 11-36 cassette. My 2x gears are 22/42 with 11-36. I gave high enough gears to spin over 40 mph and gears lower than I really need to haul a 50 lb load up a 5000' pass in the Sierra. I often ride all day, every day for days on end.

@@rollinrat4850 hello me defending a setup I no longer use a year ago 😂 I still believe in 1x even though it's don't use it on any of my bikes anymore. I don't know any bicycle commuters who have to climb mountains then bomb hills. I think that trade is worth it for simplicity for a lot of people. As for "souplese" (spelling?) I hear you, I raced road bikes a bit as well and emulated the winter training in the same way you describe. I think that made my comfy on the admittedly greater gaps of 1x setups. As for drivetrain wear, idk about your statement that they're "moneymakers" but I find your general sentiments re:maintenance, and it's what had me finally switch. I just wasn't seeing the chain life I wanted, so I went to a wide-low 2x setup, actually matching your 2x setup! 22-44 11-36t is my sweet spot for around here, and it generally feels as simple as a 1x without giving up range Tldr good points, I enjoyed the 1x when I have it and appreciate what you trade, even though I don't run them anymore

For me a 40 or 38 ring and a 12spd 10-45 is the sweet spot

20% !!!!!!!

@@gicking3898 yes, I live next to the second tallest mountain in Africa. Mt Kenya.

@@MELAVINKING Cool!

Damn, dem legs!

Can you get a 2x with low gearing on the first gear?

How so? You can use all the gears with 1x

Same came from a 3x MTB to a 2x hybrid and it is good.

@Maciej Jan Długosz As you said that would you think a 46/30 crank would be bad?

@Maciej Jan Długosz That is my worry too. I have a new 46/30 that I might just fit.

LOL, started on hand-me-down one speed balloon tire bikes with very worn tires, as I got older dad let me use his three speed (in the rear hub) bike, mom had a similar one that they had used to bike tour/camp for their honeymoon in the early 1940's. My first "road" bike was 2x5 that I rode everywhere - pavement, gravel, trails, single track, corn fields, open woods, pastures. Recently went back to an old haunt - "how in the F did I ride up that hill( +-20%)but be defeated by a 5% gravel grade up to the high school. When my hand-me-up 3x6 was in the shop for a while I was loaned a 1x12 gravel bike that I put through its paces, nice but I missed that lower range. Ordered a new gravel bike and handed back the 3x6 bike to my son but while I waited had the loan of a 2x10 gravel bike - it hits that sweet spot of low enough to manage many steeps and high enough to challenge my PB speeds on pavement. Yes, if my cadence drops too low on steep climbs walk a bike becomes faster 👍🚴‍♀️

That's what I do too. I kinda understand the "floor is lava" cyclists, you want a universal machine, but riding up a very steep hill s*cks no matter what.

I've always run 3x front gears and see no reason to pay more for less functionality.

​@@DinnerForkTonguemore for more wear

I think its the 2.4k pricetag that disqualifies this brilliant solution for most of us

"the clean look". How much do looks really play into a drivetrain? I cant see em when Im riding.........I dont sit and look at my bike's driveline ever.

@@peteralexander6514 that 2.4k includes the whole carbon wheelset, a lot of carbon wheelsets are worth 2k dollars, 400 dollars seems justified in that sense.

@@pipolchamp8205 well, I'd buy the hub and cassette for 400 in a heartbeat 😃

Internal gear hubs are a sound solution, unless you live in North America.....?

I certainly have. Looks at single speed that I am currently building.

@@robertcoates2752 And if you can climb a “ridonkulus” grade, on gravel, loaded down, then I’m impressed. For me I might could do it, for a bit, but it wouldn’t be anything I’d call “fun”. Especially on a two to three day backcountry cruise.

@@greggschwabauer6241 I won't use my single speed for that.

I've been riding 2x and 3 x for years, but I love my 1x gravel bike. It's awesome for weekend rides on single trails and I have just completed a 600km multi day ride with over 12,000 meters of climbing on a loaded bike and it was fantastic. Hassle free riding.

This is what I have been thinking. I have just ordered a 48/32 crank to replace my old one after months of making myself mad trying to chose between 1 or 2x.

When I want to ride a fixy I zip tie the cassette to the drive side spokes. This makes for a multi gear fixy. If I want a 1 gear bike I don't shift. 3 bikes in one! Oh yeah, If I want a track style fixy, don't use the brakes.

@@kevinnielsen1356 "if I want a 1 gear bike I don't shift" you monster

Friction shifting for the front derailleur completely eliminates that issue - not that I often had that problem with indexed front shifting, either. And even then, the rubbing noise to me is nowhere near as bad as the grinding sound of an ever so slightly dirty 1x chain cross-chaining up to the biggest ring. That always feels and sounds like pedaling through a mortar and pestle!

@@MSUTri the sound of chain and sproket grinding to dust.

Thanks for the comment; I just knew that someone here would invoke wonderful old Suntour shifters. Well said! 👍🚴

The new lectric shimano shifting self trims the front derailleur,GRX and road both,you never have to touch it. it works so well its amazing.

friction rules. Indexing - especially a triple - is a PITA

I used to run my touring bike in friction mode for tours where shifting wasn't critical. It sort of gave me something to fidget with, also I enjoyed honing my skill at getting perfect shifts, reminded of the pre indexing days.

@@mikegleim5241 I'm using the wonderful XC Pro thumb shifters with custom machined clamps to operate under the brake levers on my ultra wide dirt drop bars. I'd been visualizing this set up for a long time as I went to sleep. I finally found the time to make it happen and machined the parts. It works as good as I imagined. Some of the oldest bike parts Im still using on my rando bike are the awesome Sun Tour bar cons. Ive used 'em since the '70s!

Yeah, I made the move a few years ago. Never going back. I recently upgraded to e13 cassette, so I have 9-50. Along with a 42 tooth chainring there is just no reason to need a 2x unless you really care about cadence.

@@DrTomCruisin Or weight. Heavier bike (or larger tires) or carrying anything more than bottles and your seat pack and suddenly your gearing verges on being insufficient.

Same here! 😃👍

@@SurpriseMeJT That setup I described has a 555% range. That's huge. I've gone bikepacking in some of the most mountainous areas and gearing has never been a problem.

Yeah, same. I can downshift on a climb with just a quick relax of pedal pressure.

being dutch i've done that a lot lmfao. That and pulling brake cables that run under toptubes lol.

Did that on my kids bike - worked great

It's not about being picky. Don't know where you live, but my home area is mostly flat, so the "problems" I have to deal with are mostly slight changes in road angle or wind intensity, also the slight decrease in energy over longer rides. For that, I absolutely want small steps between gears to stay at that sweet spot where the preferred pedalling frequency meets the optimal feeling of physical strain. So 3x it needs to be, for valid reasons.

Are dropper posts really all that tho. A sus lockout lever would be more practical to people who do ascents

@@jellylake1649 for someone who came to gravel bikes from mountain bikes, and likes double tracks and often takes single track detours, it's fantastic. It sold my on getting a Kona Libre CR/DL instead of a Salsa warbird, and I have never regretted my choice. Even around town, at stop lights, swinging a leg over the bike when loaded with bags or luggage, small things make it a delight to have. I love my dropper. Also makes descending delightfully pleasant and so much easier to get your body's centre of gravity lower or in a more comfortable position. Benefits for me highly outweigh the few extra km/hour I'd get ftom a 2x setup

When we ride the really steep around here on gravel bikes,guess who is off and pushing sometimes? The guys who bought into 1X on a gravel bike. Like 20% grade and the 1 to 1 gearing or nearly so just wont quite do it...pushing does build character for sure.

@@bradsanders6954 Which is why bikes are so fun. There is no perfect bike, just perfect for you. And how many smiles your bike gives you. No one is smiling on a 20% gravel climb, 1x, 2x, except maybe the person who rips past everyone on an ebike, but that's a while different can of debate ;) Luckily I also ride gravel uphill on a 20% gradient basically never, so I'm pretty happy with my choice. Walking up that, if I ever see such a thing in the part of the world I live in, qualifies as party pace to me. I have no qualms with that.

I really like my 1x setup on my gravel bike, but only after I put on a 38 chainring, although 36 might have worked too. Only problem is, I like loaded touring, and it just doesn't have the range for it. I either need to stick a front derailleur on it or get another bike...

FD M6020 D by Shimano is a masterpiece! Origin8 Thruster Boost 2x crankset is my hero - but swap BB spacers to keep it centered.

I once had a box with DOZENS of broken Sram road front derailleurs at my shop. Everything, high to low end would break in exactly the same place. The spot weld on the cage. I always replaced them with Shimano's if we had 'em. I don't have a box of broken Shimano front derailleurs. I'm a retired mechanical inspector. Now I wrench in the shop for fun. Sram has no idea what QC stands for. Don't waste your money.

Quite frankly, the bike industry simply needs to create new products for us to buy. It often has very little to do with innovation.

I remember vividly the articles reviewing 2 x 9 saying that it was realistically only for racers! That us mere mortals couldn't possibly handle not having the granny gear.

The past is the future.

@@mikegleim5241 Some kits had a 28t inner chainring. Combined with the 33t rear cog added in the back, you would have ~22 gear inches. That is plenty of low gear.

Charlie Cunningham was doing 2x drivetrains in the early 1980’s with custom modified freewheels.

You left out the detail that SoCal mountains are steep!

Hear, here! I live in NorCal. I'm surrounded by 2-3000 foot vertical climbs . Any trail thats good fun where I can actually escape the masses requires at least a 1000- 2000 foot climb! I ride in the Sierras often and I'm planning to move to Colorado soon. Every time I ride in mountains I spend provably 80% of my time pedaling uphill!

Me too. Friction.

@@donhuber9131 I dont want friction shifting,and a proper 2X can be as low as 3X. The new front mechs Really Work Well,like magic.......so new stuff isnt so bad.......I just wish I hadnt spent 4+K on a new 1X XC bike...but I did.

@@bradsanders6954 good point!

I too like old school 'junk'. I still ride decades old 2or3X 6-10 speed set ups with all compatible friction shifting. It seems to last and last. I learned how to shift over 40 years ago. I very very seldom drop my chain, even on more rocks than dirt trails. Ive ridden 100s of thousands of miles. I wrench in a high end shop just for 'fun'. I deal with ALL the issues, warranties and recalls. New bicycle 'technology' is nothing, but JOB SECURITY to me!' I'm also a retired mechanical inspector and machinist as well. I can build nearly anything and understand high quality engineering procedures. Nobody is fooling me! Least of all, marketing bullshitters Its the RIDER, not the freakin bike.

@@rollinrat4850 what got me about the bike shop workers was I had switched from down tube friction shifting to the very first sti shifters before they were even born. I wanted to say don't tell me I'll get confused about shifting and cross chaining unless I go 1x until you have more than a passing experience with 3x. SMH.

They want everyone on 1Xs because they know they'll sell more chains, more often. It hasn't been what's best for the rider for a long time, it's about getting you to buy parts faster.

@@grandpavanderhof Marketing bullshit is all about separating consumers from their money. Its not just the bike industry either. Profit is all that matters. Once they got IT, what IT'S exchanged for now becomes a consumer's PROBLEM. 1x does make sense for gravity oriented MTB and cyclocross racing, but lots of 'cross racers have used a single chainring long before 1x existed! So have downhillers! I've been around bike racing for several decades. Nobody's fooling me! For 'cross racing 'wide range' cassettes don't make sense either. For endurance riding, mixed terrain (gravel) and loaded touring, 'wide range' cassettes don't offer enough range. '500% just sounds good to those who believe marketing Bullshitters. It's actually a bald faced lie if you can actually do simple grade school math. I don't even need a calculator or paper to figure that out! You're right, 1x drivetrain parts don't last as long and replacements are definately more expensive. More for less! Who woulda thunk? Only in the bike industry! They're noisier and often run rough at extreme chain angles. Lots of the bikes have chainline issues. Just a chain, 'ring and cassette can cost over $300 on a mid level bike.

@@markowsley4954 Haha, I betcha most of those sales type people can't even drive a freakin stick shift! Its not like its a 30 speed transmission on a diesel semi truck! A 3x 7,8,9,10,11 is hardly 'rocket science'! H

Nothing beats dropping down a gear effortlessly when you're met with a steeper hill than you expected. And you're right they're cheap as peanuts since there's such an abundance. I don't really get the 1x thing either unless you just don't need the range (mtb on the slow end, road/gravel racing for high end). For us casual riders a 2x or 3x is perfect

@@phantomflame0658 Having 30 gears is very intimidating for noobies. I found it very intimidating to have 30 gears before I started riding and understood how it works. I think for entry level and low end bikes designed for noobs, 1x is a great idea. Less gears, less maintence, less shifters and cables. You don't have to worry about cross-chaining and tracking which gear you're in front and back. As a noob you just want to get on and ride. IMO the main arguments for 1x is to keep it simple.

@@BanAaron That's a good point too but I'm more focused on the userbase of this channel. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense for touring bikes, and it's not much hassle at all, it takes like 10 mins to adjust everything nicely. All personal preference. I get why people do 1x swaps for normal commuter city bikes but I'll still take my triple any day :)

@@BanAaron After some thinking how I could get a bit lower gears on my road bike I was cycling with a 3x and was surprised how well it fit my speed on that bike. Set the front to slow, mid, fast and use the cassette for finer adjustment. But I think for a noob to understand cross chaining can be confusing. An depending on the type of riding I'd take gear hubs into account. They also are 1x and you can shift at any speed including standing.

@@BanAaron For noobs, I just tell them to put the Front gear into the middle chainring, and get comfortable with shifting the rear. Once they figure that out, higher and lower on the big gears becomes much easier.

Yes, where you ride has a lot to do with it. Here in western NC, we see gravel road grades up to 28%. So many variables... And that's what keeps it interesting!

Indeed. For a trail bike a 1x drivetrain is perfect. One less lever on the bar, one less cable rattling against the frame and no more dropped chains on a front downshift. Imo it's one of the _best_ "innovations" in recent years. For an MTB, that is. On my commuter I'm running a 2x drivetrain and I'm happy with that too.

And also where you're riding it. I converted my mtb to 1x but kept 2x on my gravel bike; because that's what works best *where I ride each bike*. Out here in the Northeast, the mountain bike trails I ride don't have much net vertical altitude gain, but have frequent, short, steep ascents and descents. I just don't need much high-end gearing on my MTB where I ride it because on descents I'm usually coasting and there's very few flat sections. If I were riding the kind of trails we see on this channel, I'd probably have kept 2x. 2x works on my gravel bike because it gets ridden on a mix of roads and trails.

Sure, if you have the money and the space to store them and you have no other members in the family who also occupy space with their stuff.

@@antoniocruz8083 agree, if you're a 1-bike person, a 2x/3x setup probably makes more sense.

I own about a dozen custom built bikes. Ive lost count! Theyre all built by me, just for me. They're mostly all pretty old, but some have suspension and disc brakes. My newest bike is about 3 years old. Its heavy duty steel. No suspension. Its 3x10 for loaded bikepacking/dirt touring. I'll never buy or build a 1X. It doesn't suit my purposes. If I want to be in the wrong gear all the time, I ride my singlespeeds or a fixed gear cyclocross bike. That's my favorite. 3 of my bikes are singlespeed. They are all I 'need' almost 50% of the time. Those are my 1Xs!

@@rollinrat4850 That is so amazing. Thanks for the info.

The other nice thing about having multiple bikes is better serving your community by working a second job so you are too busy to ride them. Also, you'll never need to maintain all those extra bikes, or buy $60 chains or $120 cassettes, or clean up more Sram Eagle chain links than beer cans from your local MTB trail. Since your first set of bicycles were so problem free, and you never learned how to properly shift them, and you are still need a healthy way to lose 20 lbs, the bicycle manufacturer can sell you another set of new bikes to motivate you to ride more....rinse and repeat.

Whats missing? The 50 tooth is ridiculous easy up hills Is it the top speed?

​@@getstrongby4038 the bike is slow

1X tends to be the set up that does drop the chain,they make a bunch of guides to hold the chain in place,on mt bikes anyway. Maybe on gravel bikes...........its due to the chainline being so radical.

@@bradsanders6954 I did not mention I am using a big brand chainring with the narrow wide teeth. They do seem to help a lot with chain drop..

Exactly, 3x, when you know how to use it, is superior to all other configurations. The chainline is straighter and therefor power transfer is more efficient for more of the time. Proper gearing beats having lower weight.

I love effortlessly dropping down a gear on my old trek 7000 to a lower chainring when there's an unexpected hill, perfectly smooth and quiet, bike doesn't fight back; while everyone else around you is crunching away and getting pissed off. I cringe every time I hear someone on a new mtb or something going CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH it's awful. If you can spend not even 5 minutes to adjust everything properly there's just nothing better.

3x7 XT thumb shifters are still the best shifting I have ever had. And if the indexing was wonky, a simple twist put you in friction mode. Easy-peasy.

The reviewer said he did 6000 feet in 10 miles or something, loaded with bikepacking gear, And he likes party pace. No brainer for him. He was keen to say it was what suits him, not everyone :)

@@andrewnorris5415 Agree go with whatever works for you. Just cannot see myself going back from 1x

I rode a fully loaded hardtail mtn bike, 1x12 with 32 chain ring x10-51 cassette on half of the GDMBR last summer, 1,350 miles, I'm 68 years old. I was slow as molasses in January. :-) In the Great Basin of WY I carried 6L of water, two days food, plus base gear of 20 pounds. But, I also have a 3x9 road touring bike with super low gears, and a wider gear range. Both bikes work great for certain types of touring, and neither bike is perfect for every tour or ride. Happy trails, and safe rides.

In a similar light, for the tour de France they used to carry multiple cassettes and swap them out on the side of a mountain when they ran out of steam

@@nk-dw2hm Or flip the back wheel around that is until Bianchi that is with the 5 speed rear in 1955, they had before this at best a Derailleur with the rear 2 gears and until 1967/1968 bikes all were a 5 speed not a 10 speed when Bianchi made the first 10 speed. It was then not until late 1980's that a 12 speed was made with 6 in back and finally a 15 speed in mid to late 1990's that had 3 in front 5 in back. There was a 24 later in 2000's only a few years later with 12 in back and 2 up front or the more common 18 with 3 in front 6 in back that is still made today. Then a 36 with 12 in back with 3 up front was made for top riders to now the 27 seems to be the best option for riders in Tour or the Giro with 9 in back with 3 in front for best options with least weight as the most common but some like the pure sprinters might use a 36 still for the most extreme stages just to keep up with the others in the tour. Odd that nobody is using a 30 gear in Pro road cycling, you think a company would have made this item but nope.

@@caseysmith544 did you say that 27 gears is best/most common in the pro peloton these days? Why would they use a 3x9 when they could use a 2x12? I've never seen anyone use a triple chainring at the tour, and it's always been extremely uncommon even at the most mountainous giros They are able to use much larger cassettes than ever in the past (like an 11-32) so it has made the triple chainring less needed. Especially with how powerful those riders are

It's a cool concept, but it's less efficient and rather a black box in maintenance terms.

Those cranks don't exist any more. I put together a 28/44 mountain double 2x9 with 64/104 BCD rings from FSA on Race Face Ride XC crankset from the end of the 3x9 MTB era. 28/38 is about the most you can expect these days on a "wide range" 2x10 MTB setup.

Everything still exists if you look for it. New or used. Search for 'NOS',but some rare stuff gets expensive if the seller knows what it is. Be patient and persistent, it's out there. Lots of people, web sellers or even bike shops have old junk squirreled away, forgotten, collecting dust and taking up space Since it's 'old outdated junk' it will likely be cheap, maybe even free if you're persistent and lucky. Cycling is my 'cheap hobby'! There are plenty of square taper mtb triples that work just fine as doubles. All ya gotta do is hunt and ask around. I do 22/38 on a 104bcd crank, 24/42 on a 110bcd crank and 24/39 on a custom 130mm crank I machined myself from a block of aluminum. I'll use anything from 6 speed freewheels to 10 speed cassettes, all with friction shifters. I'll even run 2 chainrings, no front derailleur and shift by hand. Ive done that since I was a broke kid. Its good incentive to not shift and keep pedaling hard!

Where a 1x is needed is if you have a rear shock. The way most of the pivot patterns work doesn't allow for a front derailleur. But ya with a hard tail I completely get what your saying.

@gundi salvus Over the past 10 years if a front derailleur would have ruined or prevented it they would have just put a 1x on it. And years previous of 2012 its very possible having to design around a front derailleur could have prevented some designs. Just look at the specialized enduro and compare the suspension pivot design from 2010 and 2020.

I have the Gary Fisher Utopia 2011 3x9, recently bought a carbon specialized with 2x9 and it is amazing.

T.A. makes 1, 2 and 3 ring cranks. Arms and spiders are separate. Peter White cycles sells them.

@@thedavidduncan Thanks! I'll check it out.

Amen!

Ability to have narrow-wide teeth (chain stays on), oval chainrings (better traction on climbs, more efficient pedal stroke), and greatly reduced chainslap are other strong arguments for 1x, depending on how often you rock singletrack

While I'm sure this will be taken out of context to assume that I am saying "2x and 3x bad" you've missed what is meant by calling it simplicity. It is the reduced mechanical complexity by lowering the number of moving parts (potentially increasing reliability, reducing repair times, etc, plus the weight gain which admittedly doesn't always matter much) - but not the amount of effort or thought it takes to switch gears - that is the reason for calling it simple no matter what it seems to imply. But if your bike is expensive, well-built, and light enough to begin with, then it does not matter what you do and it all comes down to your preference.

To be fair, I do like this particular meaning of “simplicity”: I haven’t had a 2x/3x in a while, but I’ve noted for myself that had I been riding a 3x, I would simply treat it like 3 sequential 1x systems: say, 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 2-4, 2-5, 2-6, 3-7, 3-8, 3-9, or the like, or else I would have to memorize exactly which combination is bigger/smaller than another, for all possible ones + memorize which ones are problematical cross-chaining-wise, because to me, on the road, a gear should only be higher or lower, with no other variables. I also prefer IGHs because I don’t have to pay attention to whether I’m pedaling or not The bike, IMO, should disappear entirely from your attention when you use it, like your shirt or your phone does. If it doesn’t - it’s just bad. P.S. my bike doesn’t have a front brake and a rear brake, it has THE brake, and then the thing you use for skids and emergencies. My left hand is my brake hand, and my right hand doesn’t even approach the lever 99% of the time /rant

The 110/74 triple is my new obsession. Can be set up many ways, and they don't cost a fortune.

You nailed it. And yup mt bikes are built around 1X....they really need a guide on the front sprocket/chain,and a special steel/alu chainring, and the huge cassette,and the wonky chainline............all basically hacks to make it work.....dont crash on that new 12 speed derailleur ,the price will Really Shock You for the good stuff.

@@NoBrakes23 Sorry, I didn't realise your anecdote represented all cyclists that ever existed.

I've been contemplating this exact setup but 11-32. It would lead to more even wearing of my cassette. As it is with 46/30, I'm rarely in the little cogs.

I run a FSA Tempo adventure 46-30 setup, and it works pretty good

I have the GRX 400 set up with an 11-42 10spd cassette. It’s good on most climbs.

Forget Sram's low quality junk. They invented 1x because they could never make a decent front derailleur that lasts! But also their QC is so compromised as to be laughable. I love to hate on Sram. Ive recalled and warrantied far too much of their crap. I'm also a retired mechanical inspector. Nobody fools me! You can use an older MTB double or triple crank. Just use the two inner positions. I don't seem to be sensitive to Q factor, but Ive got long legs. You'll need to experiment with BB width and set up. I like Phil Wood square taper BBs. Or you can easily adjust chainline with several different BBs. Square taper BBs are usually cheap enough as to buy several to experiment. Then get a really nice PW or SKF when youre sure what you need. Ive hoarded several different brands. I own a bunch of bikes! I also use some Shimano outboard bb set ups. You can usually use the spacers to get 5mm of adjustability. Front derailleur set up can get a little tricky, especially with brifters. I despise brifters and refuse to use them. Far more hassle than they're worth. Friction shifting is where it's at for dirt, everyday use and abuse, long distances, but most especially reliability and compatibility. Finding a front derailleur that works with your frame might be a challenge. One of the reasons I always stay with round tube metal frames. Let me know if you need help. Ive found some good custom set ups that work very well. I rarely if ever drop my chain. These custom set ups require a bit of patience, experimentation and fiddling!

The SRAM 43-30 isn't really a general purpose option. It's 12-speed AXS specific which means teeth optimized for flat-top chain and paired with an AXS 2x RD and cassette that maxes out at 36t. Don't get me wrong, it's a good fast-gravel setup, but now you're into the kind of money where you can do a no-compromises electronic mullet.

I just picked up a Race Face Turbine (NOS?) 2x crankset that has a Cinch (spline) spider. The spider has 64bcd and 104 bcd holes for rings which are widely available from multiple companies. It can also take 1x cinch rings with a little fiddling for chainline. I think Shimano also makes a 2x mountain crankset with 64/96 bcd. The 2x can also be run as 1x using a bash guard as the the larger ring. Lots of versatility, little downside.

2x the dark side lol its very much the other round i think.

Watching the video, I kept thinking the same thing, but then he kept mentioning price. Which is all fine and good for a casual rider, but as much as I’m assuming someone like Russ rides, it seems like a no-brainer investment.

@@marktroup2978 yeah, dude has a titanium bike.

I'm a mechanic in a high end shop. Also a retired machinist and mechanical inspector. IG hubs might seem good for commuting, but they take nearly twice as long to simply change a rear tire. They are very popular in Europe. We just don't sell very many IG hub bikes here in the US. My shop has custom built a few IG hubs. I really like the old Bendix 2 speed coaster brake hubs. My mom had one. I'd really like another one someday. For my commuting in a hilly area, singlespeeds are fine for me. I'm 60 years young. Ive even done overnite bikepack trips on a fixed gear. IG hubs are quite heavy. They aren't easy to service once they need overhauling eitger. NOTHING lasts forever, especially stuff that gets used on a daily basis. Ive overhauled 3 speeds and they're quite time consuming, even for an experienced machinist, considering that you don't do this often. We've replaced a few expensive IG hubs because the customer used them and ignored them too long or spoke tension became a problem and flanges cracked. Then it's an overpriced paperweight. Same goes for electric hub motor wheels. I don't EVER remember seeing an IG hub used on hardcore offroad trails besides a Rohloff hub. Rohloff hubs are a major investment both initially and later in the future. My friend has had a Rohloff for nearly 20 years. He ships it to Switzerland for overhauls every now and then. He needs to unlace his wheel. He also owns a bike shop and rides many other bikes. He's a long time expert mechanic. He doesn't mess with this hub. Every overhaul costs $200+ in time, labor and parts. So I doubt he's the typical everyday user. My Chris King hubs are more affordable than that. Ive never replaced a single bearing or part in over a dozen overhauls and over a hundred thousand miles over decades. I do know of some long distance tourists who use Rohloffs, they don't complain about them to be honest.

I‘m using a Pinion C1.12 with 12 evenly spaced gears and a 600% gear ratio built into a bottom bracket transmission. This requires a specially modified frame, but changing the back wheel has never been easier, in my case even with a belt drive. No cables to disconnect, no derailleur in the way, no retensioning the chain or belt, simply open the quick release or pull the through axle and pull down on the wheel to get it out of the adjustable vertical dropout. Works perfect for me! The recommended maintenance is just a yearly oil change.

@@benjaminfriederichs3189 yeah I’m not a mechanic but the only difference between removing the rear wheel from my bike with a Rolhoff and my bikes with chained gears is unscrewing the hub connection, which takes about five seconds. Cyclemonkey services Rolhoff hubs in the US so there’s no need to send then overseas. And let me tell you, Rolhoff stands behind their products. I bought mine secondhand (it was a 2001 model) and they still paid for fixing a leak. There seems to be some people in bike shops who just don’t like IGHs, for whatever reason. To each his own.

As a long time old school road racer, randonneur and tourist, turned into MTBer/bike packer/party pacer, One by is much too limiting. In my opinion. It's overpriced and often suffers chainline issues. Its often noisy and wears out too fast. Ive spent lots of time rolling around on two wheels. Cycling is my life long lifestyle. I rode road racing bikes on trails at least a decade before most folks knew MTBs existed. I still use friction shifting. I learned decades ago 'how to shift' on 'low tech' freewheels and hardware. I very, very rarely ever drop my chain. I have the ability to ride pretty fast, but I rarely do that anymore. I want to meet my grand children someday! I've tried 1X. I'm not a fan at all. I wrench in a high end shop, just for fun. I have easy access to the highest end demo bikes. I wrench on all this new junk every day and can get it near cost. I'm not impressed. I'm a retired mechanical inspector and a machinist. I can build my own bikes from raw materials. Nobody is fooling me. I'll never buy one by. 1X simply doesn't suit my purposes. It's either geared too high or too low. The gaps between gears are too wide. If I want to ride in the wrong gear all the time, I just ride my singlespeeds or my fixed gear. These perfectly suit nearly 50% of my hilly/mountainous local riding, commuting and training. Now THIS, is my party pace. Singlespeeding makes me feel like a kid again! I'm 60 years young. Fixed gear offroad is more fun than should be legal. The pain makes me smile! This is simply my own preference. Its very functional, very affordable (very often FREE) and incredibly durable. I'm riding a bunch of 'old junk' that seems to last and last The cool thing about cycling is that there's all sorts of gear new and old to suit all sorts of uses. There's no reason not to find what works for you. Ride whatever makes you happy. Smile lots.

Same here, I run a 34t single CR with a 11/36 cassette. I coast on downhills trying to stay alive. No need to pedal beyond 25 mph.

Yup. 1x might be good for rough trails and cyclocross, perhaps crits as well. It's no be all end all like marketing BS would have us believe. I can do all this stuff on my old school gear, even fixed gear and singlespeeds. I'm 61, it's not impossible. Its the RIDER, not the freakin bike! 1x isn't simpler or cheaper than my 'old junk'. I'm a shop mechanic. Its job security! For mixed roads, touring, randos, long rides in big mountains it's a poor compromise. A waste of money. If I want to be in the wrong gear all the time, I ride a singlespeed. Its wicked training forcing myself beyond my comfort zone. Pedaling always, fixed offroad, is more fun than should be legal. On my long rides I like my cadence just so. I'm a retired road racer.