Why Literary Agents & Editors REJECT a Book After the FIRST PAGE: 7 Red Flags | PART 1 | iWriterly
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Күн бұрынLearn the seven red flags in editing and how industry pros know a book isn't ready for publication.
Most literary agents know after the first page (or first few pages) if a manuscript is ready or if the writer needs more time to polish their writing and hone their craft.
In this video, Meg LaTorre will go through 7 EDITING RED FLAGS.
Topics covered in this video:
• Where to start your story
• Showing vs. telling
• Information dumps
• How to weave in backstory
• Floating heads
• How to properly handle dialogue
• Overuse of adjectives and adverbs
• Too flowery writing
• Stakes
• Conflict
• Writing voice-y characters (characters with a strong voice)
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WATCH PART TWO:
Why Literary Agents & Editors REJECT a Book After the FIRST PAGE: 14 Red Flags | PART 2
• Why Literary Agents & ...
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SOURCES REFERENCED IN THIS VIDEO:
Types of Character Arcs
• Types of Character Arc...
How to Show vs. Tell in Your Writing
• How to Show vs. Tell i...
Filler Words to Remove from Your Novel
• Filler Words to Remove...
How to Give Your Character Voice
• Video
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RELATED iWRITERLY CONTENT:
Reasons Why Books Are Rejected (By Literary Agents & Editors)
• Why Books Are Rejected...
IS YOUR BOOK READY TO PUBLISH? | How a Literary Agent/Editor Knows Your Book Isn't Ready
• Video
Why Readers Stop Reading
• Why Readers Stop Readi...
Why First Drafts Stink
• Video
How Do You Know Your Book is Done (Being Edited)?
• How Do You Know Your B...
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WHY LITERARY AGENTS & EDITORS REJECT YOUR MANUSCRIPT AFTER READING THE FIRST PAGE | iWRITERLY
@andresmc4213 3 жыл бұрын
All writing advice: Don't start with info dumping Tolkien: Hold my pipe
@meganlukes6679 3 жыл бұрын
For fantasy and sci-fi I sometimes find myself begging for an info dump just because I can’t figure out what the heck is going on.
@jeremias-serus 3 жыл бұрын
@@meganlukes6679 Agree and that’s because most fantasy titles have awful structuring. Unless it’s a quite small read, sub 200 pages, you should have enough time to sneak in information naturally
@Cystlib 3 жыл бұрын
It's quite obvious Tolkien would not get published today. Which is actually quite sad
@leonardomarquesbellini 2 жыл бұрын
@@Cystlib specially considering his works even to this day still stand head & shoulders above any other work of fantasy
@julius-stark 2 жыл бұрын
@@meganlukes6679 I totally agree. I'm writing sci-fi so decided to read a few sci-fi books to see how others were doing it and I don't know what the hell is going on or where the characters are half the time, it's just talk/stuff happening. I usually quit reading after the first two chapters. Giving us SOME info dump at the beginning to set the stage would have kept me reading.
@tristanrainone9756 4 жыл бұрын
Question: Will scented paper help or hurt my submission? Torn between strawberry and passion mango.
@erinhand6004 4 жыл бұрын
This just made my day. Thank you.😂
@ClintLoweTube 4 жыл бұрын
Strawberry will give you victory.😎
@JamesMcCormickIV 4 жыл бұрын
Passion Mango is my jam!
@tristanrainone9756 4 жыл бұрын
I love this community
@reecenaidu6020 4 жыл бұрын
Wtf XD
@Hgood1 2 жыл бұрын
As a professional book reviewer for more than two decades, I’ve observed that a great many books that get published that are guilty of many of the things you caution writers against doing. I’m stunned by the work I’m seeing in recent years: An overabundance of characters undermining any emotional investment in the protagonist’s journey. Shifting back and forth in time constantly. Withholding needed back story for too long. Characterization taking a back seat to plotting. Only the protagonist is well-developed. Other characters are superficially drawn. I’m seeing this out of the major publishers and I wonder where the editors are or why so many weak books are chosen.
@christophercoleman6596 11 ай бұрын
One reason might be the "First Page" method of rejecting books. Imagine "All the Kings Men" being submitted to a Lit Agent today: they'd see first page as a run on sentance and press Delete before they even got to the end of the page!
@rickm6596 8 ай бұрын
It’s because those books are by established authors who get way more of a pass from the industry than anyone trying to break in.
@vladmordekeiser1054 4 жыл бұрын
01:03 the story starts in the wrong place 04:14 telling vs. showing 05:54 too much backstory or info-dumps 07:20 floating heads 08:04 overuse of adjectives and/or adverbs 09:44 scenes or a story that lacks stakes 11:45 a protagonist with a weak voice
@vladmordekeiser1054 4 жыл бұрын
That's all for fiction. I need it for non-fiction.
@JeffRebornNow 4 жыл бұрын
Telling rather than showing is bad, for the most part. Even long-winded Henry James would tell aspiring writers to "Dramatize dramatize dramatize." Of course, there are exceptions. Look at J.D. Salinger. Almost nothing happens in any of his books, yet they're captivating (for some people, anyway).
@JeffRebornNow 4 жыл бұрын
@@joyzeebell5519 hi are you bookworming during quarantine?
@robbinjefferson7470 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@nadhirasatria6432 4 жыл бұрын
my adhd ass thank you for this
@ChristineChurch 4 жыл бұрын
My first professionally published book was rejected for YEARS! I sent it off as a last ditch effort to a friend's editor. I never heard back. I called her months later and it turned out she left the publishing house... and left my manuscript in a rejection pile of 200 manuscripts (this was in the '90s). I wrote to her at her new publishing house. She said it was not right for anyone. I felt so hurt and upset. However, the very next day, I received a letter in the mail (snail mail back then) from the editor who had replaced her. She read my "rejected" manuscript and loved it. Hence, my first book was published in 1998. Out of 200 rejected manuscript she bought two... mine was one of them, and is still in publication to this day. Never give up!! Now, I have an agent who read the first chapter of my latest novel and asked me to send her the entire manuscript when it was done (no time line). She adored the first chapter. The book is done and almost ready to send out to her, a year later! Fingers and toes crossed that she loves the entire book as much as she loved the first chapter.
@jonathonantonio1973 4 жыл бұрын
Good luck! 😁
@elijahbutterfield4869 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome. Do we have a title to know what to look for?
@shira1487 4 жыл бұрын
Name please?
@flutistmom 4 жыл бұрын
Good luck!! Hope all goes well
@victoriabercovitz3669 4 жыл бұрын
Good luck! Tell us the title when you publish !
@gregoryfloriolli9031 4 жыл бұрын
“Don’t take 100 pages to start your story.” “Pastoral settings are BORING.” JRR Tolkien disagrees.
@wclark3196 4 жыл бұрын
You're not Tolkien and it's not 1950.
@nothing3376 4 жыл бұрын
If LOTR came out right now it would not find main stream success
@b.f.2461 4 жыл бұрын
Gregory Floriolli Tolkien is an example of a writer who who does everything wrong and succeeds brilliantly. Results may vary.
@JonJon-wi2dh 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 you are a loser.. What's wrong? Failed writer? Couldn't make it?
@6ixlxrd 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 Dude, learn to take a joke.
@martinheath5947 4 жыл бұрын
Once you start writing "for your audience" or for your publisher, something is already lost.
@Bennet2391 4 жыл бұрын
I was searching for this comment, because it describes the sad truth about our entertainment industry. And this is not limited to books.
@martinheath5947 4 жыл бұрын
@@Bennet2391 Indeed not!
@GFSTaylor 4 жыл бұрын
If you're not writing for an audience, then you are writing purely for youself. If you're writing for yourself, you don't need to be published. If you want to share this story you love with others, then you need a publisher and have to be realistic. Getting something published is the first step towards having the freedom to write just as you wish.
@martinheath5947 4 жыл бұрын
@@GFSTaylor if you're writing purely for yourself you may indeed not "need" to be published but the world would be an infinitely poorer place without all the great authors who were and just happened to connect powerfully with us!
@Starfox371 4 жыл бұрын
As much as agents wish authors did write for the audience, most do not. The new and different ones tend to stand out, and sell well.
@ThePereubu1710 4 жыл бұрын
a lot of this explains why there is so much crap literature published now. Interesting insight into the process.
@babybirdhome 4 жыл бұрын
ThePereubu1710 Publishers today are investors. They publish for money. If you have a larger audience you make more money. Not much more insight needed than that. It's a dead simple calculus. Even if you want to cater to niches, niches are small and have fewer customers and make less money. But you still need money to publish and get books on shelves, so that means a lot of big market books and a few gems scattered in between for those publishers who do still cater to niches. But there are a whole lot of niches, and most of them won't be to most people's taste, so even finding your niche to read from is hard work. What you need are a lot more publishers who aren't interested in more than making a decent living, and that isn't the world that the market has created. That's on consumers, not businesses.
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
😆, pretty much.
@breadordecide 4 жыл бұрын
These are basic rules for good storytelling. Not sure why you think it leads to crap.
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
@@breadordecide I often joke that a machine could write a story using the "formula" for good writing. Meaning, yeah it's a story but there's no Soul attached to it. It's just by the numbers story
@breadordecide 4 жыл бұрын
DravenWolfe You have to learn and respect the rules before you can break them. Before he went abstract Picasso proved he knew how to actually paint objects. Anyone who thinks they are above good grammar and storytelling rules, I’m afraid you’re going to learn the hard way that nobody will want to read your work or pay for it.
@StatmanRN 4 жыл бұрын
There was an experiment a few years bak where several novels that had sold well were retitled and submitted to various agents and publishers.Almost all were rejected. Most of those that were not were recognised by the editor.The staggering workload and volume of submissions leads to editors actily looking for a reason to reject a given work and move on.
@bioboy1819 4 жыл бұрын
StatmanRN link to study?
@friendlyone2706 4 жыл бұрын
Taste in reading, like clothing fashion, change over time.
@Account.for.Comment 4 жыл бұрын
@@bioboy1819 Probably not this one. There is a Jane Austen fan club leader who sent Jane Austen most famous books with his own name. The rejection letters are hilarious. Most clearly cannot see the resemblances. One or two gave him an encouragement letter on how original the book is. A few saw the trick and replied in good jest. At least, he was able to take comfort that the reasons his works are rejected might have nothing to do with his own skills after all.
@bioboy1819 4 жыл бұрын
Account for Comment that is a hilarious anecdote! Also very well delivered.
@greggeverman5578 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah. Good point, bro.
@rocketpunchgo1 4 жыл бұрын
90% luck, 9% conforming to current trends, 1% the agent is actually interested
@whatevergoesforme5129 4 жыл бұрын
Most probably the true reason!
@commandercaptain4664 4 жыл бұрын
And 99% self-publishing, diversifying one's portfolio, and branding until an agent takes heed.
@JDGage 4 жыл бұрын
I’ve noticed that it’s not always the writer who is limited, it is the publisher, agent and even editors that are usually the ones who are limited. I’m not saying writers who think they have nothing to learn don’t need humbling. There are plenty of writers who need to have both a determined mindset as well as a humble one to write a good book. But sadly, unless you are self publishing, publishing is a business. And as such your book may be good but it may not be what they are looking for. Take my book for an example. I want my book to be a Christian fantasy that has an edge to it. But then my book becomes too secular for a Christian publisher and too Christian for a secular publisher. It’s a paradox that goes to show the limitations of the industry, not that of the writer. But if you’re going to go for a traditional publisher, be prepared to compromise. If not, self publishing is a better way to go. But it’ll take a lot of research to self publish, which is ok. You’re a writer, and apart of writing is solid research.
@whatevergoesforme5129 4 жыл бұрын
@@JDGage Hmm, that is my dilemma too because I know an editor of a Christian publishing house who is looking for a Christian writer for a teen audience. I told them that I can write teen romances (tame ones, of course) but I cannot make it too Christian because teenagers do not want to be preached to and even though they may come from Christian families, teenagers are interested in secular love stories. I know this because I I am exposed to teens as a teacher. I prefer the traditional publishing route because self-publishing forces the author to wear too many hats and I am not that good when it comes to the business side of publishing such as marketing and taxation. Plus, it means more money out from my side.
@JDGage 4 жыл бұрын
WHATEVER GOES FOR ME it’s very true. I worked in a church as a small group leader for three years, so I totally understand what you mean. I suppose at the end of the day all I can do is write something I want to read. My first book is actually finished and I’m going onto my second. I’ve sent it to a few publishers, but that was of course two months ago. So we will see. Either way only 5% of writers out of the X amount of us who actually finish a book are in fact successful. At least it takes the pressure off of the hobby in a way.
@bobtower66 4 жыл бұрын
Should just change to the title to "Why people self-publish with Amazon."
@blessOTMA 4 жыл бұрын
That's the way I'm going.
@linxonia 4 жыл бұрын
@@blessOTMA Don't I cannot warn you enough your book will get buried unless you're marketing it actively
@blessOTMA 4 жыл бұрын
Wabooom Of the loom, thank you, I would expect it would be if I didn't. The choice today seems to be : have your wings clipped in order to be acceptable to a legacy publisher or do the heavy lifting oneself. I choose the latter. It just seems today a new author makes the success via self publishing and then the publishing houses become interested.
@Max_Griswald 4 жыл бұрын
@@blessOTMA - My plan is to infiltrate a legacy publishing house and then get my amazing manuscripts published...If the author and the person accepting/rejecting the manuscript are one and the same, what could go wrong?
@Aweso11 4 жыл бұрын
👏👏
@Archone666 4 жыл бұрын
You know, it occurs to me that a lot of the most famous and popular authors of bygone years have been guilty of one or more of these red flags. Look at Tolkien, for instance - the opening chapters are massive history lessons for the reader.
@kevinobrien2630 4 жыл бұрын
I doubt whether any of the great famous writers of the past would get published now; they wouldn't be considered sufficiently commercial.
@wclark3196 3 жыл бұрын
You know, it occurs to me that every shitty writer who somebody tries to help by offering useful, actionable advice to, compares themselves to a one-in-a-million successful writer.
@dhp6687 3 жыл бұрын
You know, it occurs to me that you are a very nasty person who appears to be lashing out at anyone and everyone who dares to suggest maybe the industry is bullshit. No one is comparing themselves to Tolkien. Amazing extrapolation here, you could win the olympic gold medal for mental gymnastics. Your response to this is nothing more than a verbal attack, so opinion discarded.
@Archone666 3 жыл бұрын
@@dhp6687 Wow. You're really projecting. Like... a lot. I made a comment wryly observing how many famous and popular authors (many of whom I personally enjoy) are guilty of these red flags (including Tolkien... who, again, I enjoy). You're rushing to assume that this is some kind of attack upon them, because the stories they wrote and which we enjoyed weren't "perfect." Do you often find yourself getting outraged at the slightest pretext?
@wclark3196 3 жыл бұрын
@@Archone666 Yeah, the world of publishing is constantly evolving. It used to be that there was a substantial midlist and a lot of stuff that would be considered marginal or "too-risky" now got published. Now it's all business, except at the niche publishers.
@SuperNovaJinckUFO 4 жыл бұрын
What I learned from this: Conform to industry standards while still trying to bs everyone into thinking you're being original
@PeterG00000 4 жыл бұрын
You just summarized storytelling.
@SuperNovaJinckUFO 4 жыл бұрын
@@PeterG00000 It pisses me off. This is why nothing real ever comes out. You know what I mean? There's so much potential, there's so much that's never been done, but people always stick to the same.
@joableandro8023 4 жыл бұрын
Writing is not ramdomly puting words into a paper, of course there's things that work better than others, because people connect better with certain things (a dramatic scene killing a well estabilished character vs a dramatic scene killing a character that just shown up is the best exemple of that). No one is killing the originality of a autor, because "killing a character that just shown up, and expect it to have dramatic weight " is not originality, is just dumb and amateur wrinting. There's no point in being "original" if the story sucks
@joableandro8023 4 жыл бұрын
@@SuperNovaJinckUFO i agree with you (for some reason i can't reply the response you send me)
@SuperNovaJinckUFO 4 жыл бұрын
@@joableandro8023 I deleted it because I made a dead wrong claim about Kafka's Metamorphosis XD
@iainmrodgers9991 4 жыл бұрын
Sure you know. That's why Lord of the Flies had been rejected 15 times and was waiting on the rejection pile at Faber and Faber. Luckily someone picked the ms off that pile and read it on the train home (ie more than one page). That's why Harry Potter was rejected dozens of times. You agents only need to read one page.
@Metatron141 4 жыл бұрын
L.O.T.F. was actually rejected 21 times before it was published.
@friendlyone2706 4 жыл бұрын
Harry Potter was rejected because everyone 'knew' children no longer read, and they especially no longer read 'fairy tales and fantasy', so that first page was never read by most of the rejectors. Several people have done brilliant analysis of Harry Potter's 1st page and J.K. got EVERYTHING right; it is an example of each and every principle discussed in this video.
@DonVigaDeFierro 4 жыл бұрын
@@friendlyone2706 That's even worse. She got everything right and still got rejected because agents were being petty.
@whatevergoesforme5129 4 жыл бұрын
@@DonVigaDeFierro Wow, you are right there. It only shows that the main concern of editors and publishers is the commercial viability of a book project which is understandable. Hence, they should say that the first page is the sole reason why they reject a book. Heck, a lot of the old classics were rejected many times. I believe there are editors who can see a gem despite it being risky fiinancially, and some who have an already preconceived idea that a book will sell or not.
@commandercaptain4664 4 жыл бұрын
There needs to be a story about an agent rejecting a book, only to have the book's events happen to the agent, perceived flaws and all.
@ZoeyCLR78 4 жыл бұрын
Man, this is kinda discouraging cuz it sounds like agents want cookie cutter stories that cater to their own personal tastes. That's a challenge cuz you don't know who these people are and what they like or don't like. 😓
@NaturalGallantBodybuilding 4 жыл бұрын
I'd agree somewhat, but there's some truth to storytelling. We all know that one person that bores the heck out of you when they tell you a story, and then the next friend that can tell the same story, but it's entertaining as hell.
@scottknows5761 4 жыл бұрын
Also how about readers like me, who want to be rather told than showed... I don't need to see in my mind, how main character is walking in the snow, feeling snowlakes melting on their cheeks and freezing wind numbing their toes and fingers as they close their eyes, pull their hood deeper, over their face and closes their eyes into a thin lines, to see 5 feet in front of them...I want to be told where they are going, how they feel and what they are doing. I like to be watching from above, learning from this character and preferably from huge cast of them and their world...and then decide if I care of them. It's not me there in the snow, it's them. I'm in my comfy chair looking and enjoying their adventure. I hope they let at least some of those books through too.
@StageInTheSkyCreations 4 жыл бұрын
@@scottknows5761 Dude...exactly. I wrote a comment earlier about how I wonder if there's a difference between male and female readers. Because a lot of my guy friends prefer non-fiction over ficiton, I think, specifically because of what you just pointed out. They'd rather be told up front all that background information, that's what gets us invested and want to see what he'll do next. Whereas it seems, women like breadcrumbs and to be strung along on intrigue and curiosity. I'm not knocking either way, but from my time sending query letters to agents for years, I'd say about 80% of them are women. They're catering to their market...other women.
@scottknows5761 4 жыл бұрын
@@StageInTheSkyCreations I don't know if I would say it's a gender thing, but can't be sure. My brain is pretty androgynic, actually leaning on feminine side, so I doubt it's about gender. I assume it is more to do just simple preferances. Problem is agents are looking to get what they like, but also what sells. So when they think of profit, they lean on style that most want to read. My issue is, that variety of styles makes our reading experience richer. So there shouldn't be "rules" on how to write successfully. Let as much through as economically possible and let readers decide what is good.
@slavesforging5361 4 жыл бұрын
@@scottknows5761 well, the more precise point, is to Know when to show and when to tell. the point isn't that every little detail needs to be shown. That's lunacy. It's that showing things is more Powerful. more Impactful. More Meaningful. important things should be shown. unimportant things can be told. what an author signifies as important and unimportant through their thoughtful choice of showing and telling is what makes writing art. An interesting Example is Cormac McCarthy- he writes crazy-basic sentences, that at a glance seem like they are telling everything and there just isn't anything there. but it's actually quite the opposite. everything important is shown, not told. In this mindset, even the unique way we show and tell things can be quite distinct, new, and unique. giving our art of storytelling new depth, while not only adhering to the old rules, but embracing them with full heart, understanding, and interaction.
@velocitor3792 4 жыл бұрын
Page 1: "In the Beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth..." Publisher: Unrelatable! You need to CONNECT with the reader! Rejected. NEXT!
@Voteouttheriffraff 4 жыл бұрын
Velocitor, Good one! Or how about this: "It was the best of times. It was the worst of times" Doesn't make any sense. Rejected! Next! You could probably do this on any of the classics...
@AntiquityCentury21 4 жыл бұрын
Page 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Publisher: Vague setting, a little "wordy." And what's with this supernatural protagonist anyway? NEXT!
@Voteouttheriffraff 4 жыл бұрын
"Call me Ishmael." You call THAT an opening sentence! That doesn't tell me ANYTHING! REJECTED!
@biblicalnews7031 4 жыл бұрын
@@Voteouttheriffraff It's funny that you wrote about, "In the beginning." That's the opening sentence of my book I'm writing.
@neinherman9989 4 жыл бұрын
"In a hole there lived a hobbit." Holes are outdated and what even is a hobbit? Rejected!
@timothyausten3390 4 жыл бұрын
Ok, I'm not an industry pro, a published author, or an experienced agent, so take the following with a grain of salt... Does anyone else here get uneasy when they hear these red flags/guidelines? They sound like they're about maximizing consumability, minimizing investment risk, etc. I don't want to take issue with anything Meg is saying (again, she's the industry pro, not me), but I'm just not hearing words like "surprising," "innovative," "risky," "bold," etc here. I wonder if there's a conversation to be had about the value of deliberately subverting industry qualifications to try and produce good art. I mean, sure, 50pp pastoral intros are a drag, and snappy, economic prose is better. It just seems like we're focusing on the rules of the industry instead of the art of telling the truth at all cost.
@sleepysera 4 жыл бұрын
Publishing is a business like any other. Of course the objective is to minimize risk and maximize profit. That's not just the case with books but with music, games, everything. Nowadays though, there are thriving indie scenes for developers, musicians, etc. and while not quite AS well-established yet, self-publishing IS a thing nowadays, which is how you can put out risky, controversial, innovative stories without needing approval by big companies that just want a safe bet.
@copycat21c 4 жыл бұрын
She does mention commercial versus literary, and that she's not in the literary space. So there's that. Personally, I think you can absolutely achieve all the things you're talking about, but within the "commercial" frame of reference Meg's providing guidance on. Of course, if you want to "suffer for your art", and not be recognised until you're dead, that's a pathway as well. You certainly wouldn't be the first one to do that! But it's a tough market out there, and if you want to get even close to being published, you need to work within the confines of "The Game". Once you're IN though, and you've got a (good commercial) reputation, it's a whole different story. Then you can experiment, and take risks, and be as innovative as you want. In the meantime, write because you love it, and because you have a story that won't let you sleep until you tell it. ;)
@copycat21c 4 жыл бұрын
@@sleepysera And, you can get a much bigger slice of the pie as an Indie than you would as a contracted author. (Of course, you have to put more skin in the game up front, too.)
@SherrifOfNottingham 4 жыл бұрын
It's just the nature of business, she offers no real substance to an aspiring writer, it only takes a couple seconds to listen to her defend agents that reject things because it "triggers" them to realize that all of this rejecting after the first page garbage is detrimental to writing as a whole. But that's how most business works, destroy the industry for a quick buck.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
That's because this video is about the rules of the industry rather than the art? This guidelines are not at all very restrictive btw. They sound restrictive at first, because the examples she gives are things that evoke imagery of the status quo mass produced mediocre novels. But I've seen a lot of examples getting thrown around here in this comment section of novels that "broke" those rules but got published and were critically acclaimed. But here's the thing; they didn't break the rules. They just followed the rules in a different way than most people chose to.
@chiefgitsu 4 жыл бұрын
A: so, what do you think? B: rejected. A: don't judge a book by its cover B: don't worry, we only read the first page
@titantill4975 4 жыл бұрын
B*: we only have time to read the first page
@titantill4975 4 жыл бұрын
@@binarekoharijanto4586 B: Dream big and have a good day and a good life
@BlacKnightRising 4 жыл бұрын
"It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen". --- these idiots would've rejected that manuscript LOL from a most famous book that EVERYONE should know about
@Meidaneh_Shush 4 жыл бұрын
@@BlacKnightRising 1984.
@BlacKnightRising 4 жыл бұрын
@@Meidaneh_Shush right
@azuarc 4 жыл бұрын
This video: "Give me all these details. Sensory details. Reasons to root for your character. An awareness of the setting. Details, please!" Also this video: "Don't fill your opening pages with details. Readers don't want them, they make the story boring, and agents will reject you."
@Air_Serpent 4 жыл бұрын
azuarc I wish she had explained that it’s about moderating the details at a time. Little by little (or a lot if the scene requires it). That’s what being a writer is about: knowing when to put something and how much.
@roosebolton3150 4 жыл бұрын
azuarc there’s a difference between having a sequence where a character says things and does things that reveal traits and reasons for why we should root for them and giving an exposition dump in the beginning of your story.
@Cheesyenchilady 3 жыл бұрын
@@Air_Serpent I think she did articulate that! She definitely said don’t info-dump, but instead release the information that need to be known as it comes up.
@adityabhalekar3506 3 жыл бұрын
tbf sensory details=/= info dumps
@josepablolunasanchez1283 2 жыл бұрын
Think of your story as if it was a movie. Before the intro you need to show a trailer that invites the reader to continue reading.
@forevermore9431 4 жыл бұрын
As a hobby writer, I am always interested in these sort of advice, but in some aspects I feel quite uneasy. A book is a piece of art and at the very end there are no rules in art. It really bothers me that we have general guidelines on how to produce a book, instead of creating what is in our mind. I would not feel all right if I would have to bend myself, just to fit into this industry. I am aware that it is business what we are talking about, but one editor isn't able to decide what is good and bad. (So I like that you used the term "Not ready" instead of "Bad".) Afterall, don't drown in selfdoubt, if you get rejected. Your work is probably not the problem
@mikebrines5708 4 жыл бұрын
All right is two words.
@allihavearepasta-basedthou2890 4 жыл бұрын
@@mikebrines5708 That would deny a word almost a century of usage. 'Alright' is gaining traction, though still not considered the grammatically correct choice. I think at the minute it is on the verge of becoming a hybrid spelling. I would not be surprised to see it become the new 'altogether' or 'already' in the next hundred years or so.
@user-nf9xc7ww7m 4 жыл бұрын
@@allihavearepasta-basedthou2890 'aight
@angelic252 4 жыл бұрын
The best art is made by people who know the rules but also know when and how to break them to the best effect
@bilalkhares9337 3 жыл бұрын
I imagine this is advice for getting published, if you're writing primarily for yourself than that's awesome. Nothing wrong with that, just like someone who paints purely to make art.
@gewgulkansuhckitt9086 4 жыл бұрын
I think maybe my manuscript was rejected because I folded each page into a separate origami animal and then mixed them all together in a giant box. PLOT TWIST: The book had nothing to do with origami.
@squeakeththewheel Жыл бұрын
Should have used scented paper. (See above)
@rileybender3655 4 жыл бұрын
This is one of the most bitter comment sections I've ever seen, lol.
@theprocrastinator6813 4 жыл бұрын
you're welcome
@AntiquityCentury21 4 жыл бұрын
I've read many thoughtful comments actually, and I've seen much worse.
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
If you consider this a bitter comment section, then you must stay to the nice side of KZfaq. Lol.
@patriciabass9502 4 жыл бұрын
I have only read a handful of comments. Some do sound bitter. But, I get why. Writers, like any artist, don't want to follow norms. We each have a unique voice. But, I found the video very informative. I subscribed halfway through the video. Normally, I don't subscribe until I I have seen several videos that I like. Writing advice should always be taken with a grain of salt and put into the proper context in the mind.
@carefullyinspired 4 жыл бұрын
A lot of rejected white dudes in here.
@MarkLewis... 4 жыл бұрын
Everyone... you have to stick with it!!! Keep submitting your work to as many publishers as you can! I mean if I gave up after the 27th time I was rejected... I NEVER would have gotten rejected a 28th time!!!
@Glicksman1 2 жыл бұрын
Um, I don't think that publishers ever accept a manuscript if it isn't submitted to them by a reputable literary agent.
@MarkLewis... 2 жыл бұрын
@@Glicksman1 lol
@alandavies3727 2 жыл бұрын
Publish your book yourself, it’s very easy. You don’t need these agents. Be brave, you can do it.
@jugiujulia 2 жыл бұрын
@@alandavies3727 if no one wants your book I don’t think that just “publishing it yourself” could be a solution…
@TheTruthx58 Жыл бұрын
@@jugiujulia it is, but Amazon is full of stuff published works. literally bursting.
@vvvvinvasion 4 жыл бұрын
First page: Once there were four children whose names were Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy. Editor: BORING! Non-original, typical...
@ender4344 3 жыл бұрын
Loll
@promcheg 3 жыл бұрын
A long time ago, in the galaxy far away... Editor: Exposition!!!!
@erinhand6004 4 жыл бұрын
The thing is, I've read some books published in the last few years that break all of these rules and still sucked me in. I would argue that more important than any of these things is having a strong narrative voice. A great example is Uprooted by Naomi Novik. It starts by telling not showing, not much action or dialog, and info dumps for the first 3 pages. Yet I've never talked to anyone who was unable to get past the first few pages. But the one thing the opening to the book does have is a very strong narrative voice form the POV of the main character.
@TheRedverb 4 жыл бұрын
I agree.
@wclark3196 4 жыл бұрын
If I had a nickel for every time some hack defended their piece of crap writing by comparing themselves to bestselling authors, I'd be able to associate with a better class of people.
@erinhand6004 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 I don't remember asserting that I was or wanted to be a writer. And even though I do that point is irrelevant to what I was getting at in my comment. Which is that the advise given in the video is not necessarily accurate and that people shouldn't take what is said as rules. The other thing to note is that she is/was an agent (or editor, not sure which) so her advice caters to what she would look for in a submission. But there are other agents/editors out there that might not share her opinion and would be interested in a piece that doesn't follow the advise given here.
@jasonyntig717 4 жыл бұрын
Coffee Daydreams Don’t mind Clark... he is a big Troll!
@wclark3196 4 жыл бұрын
@@erinhand6004 haven't read your writing, but stand by my comment. I'm in multiple writing groups and read a lot of stuff from unpublished writers. They could almost all benefit from following the advice in this video. The ones who never get better are the ones who compare their work to accomplished authors.
@zomat7955 4 жыл бұрын
Recently, I read a book where all the info was sprinkled in very conveniently just before you needed it. It made things very predictable on a page by page level and very deus-ex-machina as a whole. I think getting the pacing of your information right is really quite difficult.
@RyMann88 4 жыл бұрын
I do this. I hate it. But it's a first draft so IDGAF at the moment. I'll fix it in a later draft, I just want to get the plot finished first.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
The real trick to sprinkling info in when needed is to pretend it was sprinkled in for some other reason. You should be trying to achieve as many different narrative goals as possible in a single paragraph. Establishing character motivations, advancing plot, foreshadowing future events, fleshing out character relationships, character development, etc, etc. Stories become super predictable when the text only achieves one such goal at a time. Narrative density is how you achieve that "intelligent story" feel where you don't see things coming when it was clearly established.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
@Nintariz Probably. But we all need to start somewhere, and not everyone intends to be a writer. This advice is incredibly useful for helping readers identify what exactly is wrong with a book they really think sucks. And that latter reason is why I posted it here.
@MURDR63 4 жыл бұрын
On the contrary, it can work quite well in comedy. Pretty early on (page 2), you learn my MC is the Chosen One, and is prophecized to defeat the 17-foot demon Zoltar in battle to save the planet of Nebula 6 Zed. About page 30, well before the MC reaches the planet, you learn that Zoltar is actually a pretty good dude, and the prophecy is a bunch of bullshit. But the MC doesn't find that out, so the journey goes on until he arrives and predictably is not needed. Why? Because the climax isn't important. It's about the journey.
@robertyeah2259 4 жыл бұрын
@@RyMann88 True, don't stop and edit until you're done, otherwise you'll never get finished.
@CautiousKieran 4 жыл бұрын
"Her'es how you can write like everyone else, so you be dull and succesful!"
@darthkek1953 4 жыл бұрын
Aaaaaand this is why all books read the same these days.
@user-nf9xc7ww7m 4 жыл бұрын
Now if they could just standardize the sizes of books, for bookshelf sake.
@jamespower5165 4 жыл бұрын
Go back 50 years and people would still be saying the same things. The point is to understand that at any given moment, industry standards represent the status quo. Yes, any really good art transcends the status quo. But you need to learn to write in the mould before you break the mould. Remember that George Carlin was a good clean comedian for a number of years before he dared to challenge a certain way of doing things. First establish yourself in the industry model. Then when you break iyt you can do so with more competence, experience, and credibility.
@darkskingirljojo5179 3 жыл бұрын
@Kate 64 yeah they do, there very close.
@Gregforeli 4 жыл бұрын
I would hope that if my work is rejected because the content is triggering to an agent that they hand it off to another agent. Like you say, with no conflict there is no story. How is it fair to reject something because an agent doesn't like the elements of the plot that cause the conflict to begin with?
@MarkJones-hc9pf 4 жыл бұрын
Agents who get triggered should really go work somewhere more appropriate - local insane asylum might do the trick, or a collective for neurotics maybe.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
@@MarkJones-hc9pf Ok boomer
@electricdreams8237 4 жыл бұрын
@@ddshocktrooper5604 Ok moron.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
@@MarkJones-hc9pf Ok boomer
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
@@MarkJones-hc9pf Like, I could explain how ridiculous the comparison you've made is, since unlike the brain surgeon the agent shouldn't be expected to deal with poorly written rapey smut at every turn when they work at publishing body that deals mostly with teen romance novels. But I can see that sort of nuance is lost on you because you just want to be mad at SJWs or whatever. So that's why I'm not bothering, and just responding with "Ok boomer".
4 жыл бұрын
I don't claim your wrong, you're very likely 100% correct about these things affect getting published, I also think this is what's wrong with books today. Everything conforming to the exact same mold, all stories are the same, sound the same and run the same.
@mikebrines5708 4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely true. The question still remains--do you wanna get published or not?
@dionysiaex5538 4 жыл бұрын
News just in: creativity today - books, movies, TV - is all about more of the same. Its why if one thing works you get a sequel, next series, etc. These are companies and their only interest is cash.
@Londronable 4 жыл бұрын
@@dionysiaex5538 Yep. If you're somebody that likes a niche thing, even if it's high quality, tough luck, people don't care. They want mass appeal to make money. Not an incredible story that only caters to the few with the same interest. Books ain't different from movies where transformers and the like is making a lot of money even though the movies are god awful.
@xilo3012 4 жыл бұрын
@@Londronable yes. But people that writes by taste maybe want to make something that they like, not something like transformers movie.
@slavesforging5361 4 жыл бұрын
well, i ask myself the question... is this what it takes to get your foot through the door? I think of it like teeny bop pop musicians. they have to have ghost writers write their songs, wear the skimpy outfits, use autotune, and sing about failed relationships even thought they're 16 years old, for their first album. after that, they can dress how they want, write their own songs, and sing about topics that actually matter to them. I don't know these things, but i suspect writers that already have a fan base can get more original works published and marketed well than unknowns who's work goes straight into the infinite mass black hole of slush piles. or would that make it a white hole? hmmm... well, bleached or not it's not a good hole to go in!
@thegwolf 4 жыл бұрын
I hate to be a downer but if I'd be still interested in traditional publisher's dinosaur ways, this video would've made me want to give up writing completely. The video is supposedly about rejection reasons within the first page or first few pages BUT you supposed to show don't tell, BUT don't give too much exposition BUT introduce your main character AND introduce the world or scene AND give your character a voice the editor can connect to AND follow a couple overused structuring ways to build your story BUT be fresh because they might not like tropes, AND avoid subjects that may or may not trigger certain editors. Whatever happened with creativity and the desire to tell a story? If there is like 2-3 ways my story can be structured in order for an editor to even consider my writing from start to end, that alone already strangling creativity. Not to mention that someone picking up a book and it starts in the middle of some action scene, everyone can already tell that the next segment will be either a "Previously..." flashback or time will progress on a linear path but we will get to know the background via exposition or dialogue. This is why traditional publishing will follow cable TV down the drain. Getting published by them requires authors to follow a maze of unwritten rules that may or may not apply and individual editors and publishers who stick to their own set of rules rigidly and not allowing the author to be judged based on the entire story. I don't mean to disrespect the honest and hard working editors who not only comb through tens of thousands of pages yearly, catching mistakes and being constructive. I have nothing but respect for them, but the traditional publishing industry in general became some sort of annoying gate-keeping dinosaur considering writing only on its estimated commercial value. The industry is only there for the sake of being there. Self serving and acting kind of like a boss-monster at the end of level so writers would need to fight it and still be screwed by the ever moving goalposts. If I wan't to write a film-noir style slow burn detective story in a sci-fi environment, I will do just that and won't let all these requirements stand in the way of starting with world building and exposition, because readers differ wildly. Some hate it, some are rabid fan of it and don't even want to read anything that doesn't start by allowing them to get settled in the world before the story proper would pick up.
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
Honestly it's just a persistence game. None of the rules talked about in this video are hard and fast ones, there's examples all over every genre of people who broke these rules getting published and being super successful. You're selling your book to the publishers and it's just like any other sales job, lots of rejection with an occasional yes. Just got to shop it around and hope for the best, and in the meantime keep writing so that your next one will be better. Brandon Sanderson wrote 12 novels before he found a publisher who wanted to put one of them out. Those who persist are often the ones who succeed.
@johnterpack3940 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I'll be self-publishing my book when I finish it. it costs more up front, but I'm not giving up the story I want to tell in order to abide someone else's rules. If I did that, it would cease to be my story.
@user-nf9xc7ww7m 4 жыл бұрын
@@johnterpack3940 you do know amazon will do it for free? Its royalty based. No upfront costs. You upload document, design cover, and presto. Buy an author copy at cost and set price of book to public.
@ubermenschzarathustra862 4 жыл бұрын
That’s why many authors nowadays turned to online publishing.
@jordil6152 3 жыл бұрын
It's really a matter of 'is this book interesting?' A subjective criteria but if you want someone to invest their time and money into your work, then they need to at least find your book interesting. Editors have vast slush piles of manuscripts and are looking for reasons not to publish 99.9% of what they've received. And if you think that's bad, imagine how tough it is to get readers to give new authors a passing glance in the paperback racks--let alone have them actually purchase your novel. Why bother with Paul Newnovel when there's proven names like Stephen King and John Grisham just a few rows above?
@StageInTheSkyCreations 4 жыл бұрын
I think Meg's words of advice are awesome for new writers starting out, or even writers who are only on their first project. But when you've been in the game long enough, and have even been validated by having agents and other editors confirm you're on the right path, her advice is really the advice of an investor who's looking to get a return on her profits by putting her money in what's been proven to sell. Nothing wrong with that...but I can tell you I'm one of those authors who opted out of a contract with my Literary Agent because I couldn't write with her voice in my head telling me what she would prefer. My work has to be my voice.
@alejandrorios8386 4 жыл бұрын
"signs of a newbie writer"... so basically you have to start off being an expert...
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
That's your takeaway here, for real, or are you just being bitchy for it's own sake? Obviously no one has to start off as an expert and it's literally not possible to do so. But you do have to get pretty good before you should reasonably expect a professional publishing house to want to invest in you. You wouldn't practice football for a week and then wonder why no NFL team is willing to sign you. Publishing novels is the same, to be published by the big names you need to approach them already looking like you know what the hell you're doing.
@alejandrorios8386 4 жыл бұрын
@@chriswhinery925 I know. You're absolutely right. I suppose I just hate being a noob and this video does speak of many things I was doing wrong with my work. (I did give the video a like). Sorry about that.
@blauespony1013 4 жыл бұрын
@@alejandrorios8386 Don't be too sorry. A lot of other jobs offer the chance to get an education first - where you get paid for ,not where you have to pay for. Writing is different. And I read a lot of books where the author definitely wasn't an expert (and it shows). The good thing is: You can claim to be a young writer until the age of 35-40 years old!
@slavesforging5361 4 жыл бұрын
Not an expert. just professional. it's signs of an untrained writer. signs of a writer that doesn't understand what publishers or the writing industry wants. so yes, a newbie. a newbie that hasn't done the basic homework of watching a few youtube videos about the industry they want to succeed in. it's not an insult. just a statement of fact that should be learned from. (nice apology btw- respect).
@randeknight 4 жыл бұрын
No, you just need to write a million words and throw them away (having learnt what you did wrong) before you're writing anything that people will pay money for.
@neroresurrected 4 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the advice sincerely, however I feel like there are too many of these kinds of videos all over KZfaq regarding the opinions of these agent or editor types from these publishing houses that basically look to what sells more to market than what is good writing in general and there is a big difference between the two. I would take these videos with a grain of salt contrary to what they may say, there is not a perfect formula in getting published. Everyone’s success story is usually quite different from the next one. I also am a believer that luck matters too, some people have it while most don’t. Consequently, I do think there is no greater reward than having written a book that makes you happy and gives a sense of mission and purpose in writing it .Just my thoughts.
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I know this as well. A lot of videos are very cookie cutter just like the cookie cutter advice they give
@silvermoon9186 4 жыл бұрын
There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you -Maya Angelou
@doveandiamond 2 жыл бұрын
Creating my “character’s profiles” is one of my favorite parts of creating a story. I write all sorts of details about the character that may never come into the story, but gives me a total sense of who they are for my job of writing them.
@promcheg 4 жыл бұрын
I prefer books starting slow, there is nothing I hate more than an action scene right in the beginning. I don't know those characters, I don't care for them. I don't know who they are, what world they are living in, wehn it comes to military space sci-fi it is often hard to judge what is actually happening, what kind of technological/political environment they operate. I don't know anything at this point, and throwing me smack in the middle of a supposedly exciting scene is the reason I remove the book from my kindle. And generally avoid this author from that point on.
@GameFuMaster 4 жыл бұрын
I'm the opposite. I don't want an exposition dump. Why should I care for your characters, if your writing is boring from the start? Why should I not read history books instead of your fiction? I don't necessarily need action, but I need interesting writing that makes me go "this author knows how to write"
@GameFuMaster 4 жыл бұрын
@Nintariz books starting slow will always be boring. Why should I learn about this books history/beginning? There are millions of books, not to mention it's competing with stuff like comics and movies as well. There's a general 3 episode rule in TV series because maybe the first episode is setting things up and episode 2 and 3 is really where the impact lies, however, with the amount of content coming out (and the amount that's already out), I only have a 1 episode rule. If you really detract my attention in even the first episode, then I am dropping that series. For me, it's the same with a book. If your prologue can't entice me to want to learn why that event happened, I'm not eager to find out.
@6ixlxrd 4 жыл бұрын
@@GameFuMaster You do realize that all good books follow a specific rule of thumb, right? Mostly every terrible book I've read starts right off with some big action scene happening, some characters I'm supposed to care for (but know nothing about) dying, a war being fought for reasons I do not understand, etc. It's all an incoherent mess. A Song of Ice and Fire (the most successful television show to ever come from a series of novels) did not start off immediately with the Red Wedding or the Battle of the Bastards; it took its time, developed its characters, absorbed many into its world. The same can be said for other highly successful works, from the Hobbit to Stephen King's IT. You gradually ease your way into the Rising Action by introducing the problem, alongside reasons for why the readers should care about said problem and (especially) the characters involved. You never start your book off during (or in the middle of) the Rising Action. That's the number 1 sign of a bad book.
@GameFuMaster 4 жыл бұрын
@@6ixlxrd sure, you don't exactly show the final boss fight in your prologue, but you do realize A Song of Ice and Fire didn't exactly slow either. The prologue started off with zombies. Then Chapter 1 (Bran) started off with him seeing an execution of a man, not his birth and him growing up to that point. Your whole argument is moot, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
@6ixlxrd 4 жыл бұрын
@@GameFuMaster I fail to see how my argument is moot when those things held very little importance to the narrative being told. Bran seeing an execution in Chapter 1 is not the "action" you described, but merely George RR Martin following the very rules of establishing his world by showing instead of telling, by feeding you the exposition through details (in-fact, the actual execution itself was but a single paragraph). Chapter 2 further carried that with Catelyn's monologue directed at the religion-based lore of Westeros, then Chapter 3 with Daenerys and the political-based lore, and so forth. Literally no action happened, but the world and its rules were definitely (and slowly) established via a mixture of explicit and implicit exposition. It's clear to me that you are the one who doesn't understand what you're talking about.
@Sanderus 4 жыл бұрын
And this is why I would get bored to death if I read only very modern fiction (=the same book cut and pasted all over again).
@TheBelrick 4 жыл бұрын
holy shit she gave me a light bulb moment. moder sci fi authors suck. they are numerous and they write lots of terrible books that fill up my kindle store. why? because nasty femiviles dominate the editors industry. just like how they ruined hollywood theyve fucked books by rejecting mascualine penmanship. fuck me it all fits
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
You must have zero creativity if you think the rules she listed are at all restrictive. The things a story must have are so ridiculously vague they could be anything. Conflict =/= physical battles. You could write a compelling short story about someone's internal struggle over whether or not to get up from the couch to go take a shit, or continue watching the football and hold it in. It would still follow all the rules she listed. You could drip feed flashbacks to their past, where they shat themselves in the 3rd grade and got laughed at by their peers. This story thread has a lot of potential. You can turn basically everything into a compelling narrative if you try hard enough.
@TheBelrick 4 жыл бұрын
@@ddshocktrooper5604 you missed her true restrictions. Millennial SJW must like the content of your story.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheBelrick That's not even true. True for some publishing houses for sure, but not all. None of the restrictions she outlined here have anything to do with SJWs or whatever. It'll take them far more than 1-5 pages to notice that anyway unless you're a super shit writer who tells instead of shows.
@TheBelrick 4 жыл бұрын
@@ddshocktrooper5604 Super shit writers who tells instead of shows is the very definition of writers on both Kindle AND hollywood movies since SJW took over and theyve fucked both
@theprincipalofficer4273 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for showing every one to ignore going to agents and just go to amazon to self publish instead.
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
Lol, pretty much
@RelativelyBest 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for referring to it as "telling vs showing" rather than "show, don't tell." That is kind of a pet peeve of mine. However, just to be clear: Can we agree that there are times you _want_ to tell? Because writing isn't a visual medium, and not all things in the story is worth showing. Sometimes you just want to get a certain piece of information across as quickly as possible so you can move on to more interesting and relevant stuff.
@theprocrastinator6813 4 жыл бұрын
this. A movie does showing better than telling. Meanwhile literature relies more on telling. We need to know the lore, understand and grasp it
@RelativelyBest 4 жыл бұрын
@@theprocrastinator6813 I really do think "show, don't tell," worded like that, makes a lot more sense for screenwriters and film director than for literary writers. Though, also, I understand there is this annoying tendency with some teachers where they will _teach beginners wrong on purpose,_ to eliminate bad habits early. So, for example, you tell a novice writer to _never_ show, because showing tends to be a problem for beginners, _then_ you try to fix the damage you caused by letting them know it's actually okay to show on occasion. I'm... kinda skeptical to this approach.
@theprocrastinator6813 4 жыл бұрын
@@RelativelyBest are you referring to the showing, where they actually depict pictures from time to time? Yea if thats the case i agree that it can ruin the whole experience, depending on the scene. Everyones visions of the characters and setting differs from reader to reader, if they see the picture, it can sometimes kill the immersion.
@user-nf9xc7ww7m 4 жыл бұрын
Perhaps better as dialogue weaved with scenes rather than showing v telling. You cant show anything in a book unless there are pictures 😁
@Air_Serpent 4 жыл бұрын
It’s not that you cant tell, but you can’t just ONLY tell. Look at a book you got and see how it uses telling and how it uses showing. It’s a mix of both.
@Vesperitis 4 жыл бұрын
9:20 'her heart *beating* in time with the war drums.' The word 'beating' is simpler than 'rattled', hearts tend not to rattle like a small hard object inside a hollow box, it connects the heart with the drums which *are* beaten, and phonetically, it flows better.
@Theutus2 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I've never heard a drum rattle
@DonVigaDeFierro 4 жыл бұрын
True. That sentence confused me.
@whatevergoesforme5129 4 жыл бұрын
Yep, it gave a different mental image to me.
@Slarti 4 жыл бұрын
I would replace 'beating' with 'thumping'. These are war drums, war is brutal.
@lori9885 4 жыл бұрын
I'd still use rattle because I'm an idiot.
@carole5648 4 жыл бұрын
This is how I approach the vocabulary issue. I love a thesaurus and i use one often, but only select words you actually know the meaning of and how to properly use. Don't chose the longest most obscure choice everytime, it makes you sound arrogant and is often unnecessarily confusing. Use it change up your writing, when you repeat the same word 2-3 times on a page. And don't use one in your first draft, leave it till later editing. Often I find myself looking for a word in a thesaurus that I just couldn't think of in my first draft or that i didn't know how to spell but i know it when i see it.
@GiveMeYourEyes947 4 жыл бұрын
I agree with you on that. While I'm not a writer, anytime I've seen someone look like they've just used the thesaurus in Word I can't help but cringe. Prime example being in a story I read the other day where the author had used the word "febrile" to replace warm clearly not knowing it's actual meaning. It's used as a medical term to diagnose someone with a fever not to say they're warm.
@SherrifOfNottingham 4 жыл бұрын
Why use a word with six syllables when two will suffice? When you don't use words often you will not have a full grasp on not only the full intended meaning, the dictionary definition, but you'll also lose or drop the "baggage" those words carry with them. It's why the word "Niggardly" is pretty much never used any more, even though we don't have a good replacement for it, leading to people using multiple words to describe a "morally lacking frugality" due to the words unfortunate similarity to a rather taboo word. That is not even the best example as the baggage is pretty obvious, even to people who don't know the word. But some baggage isn't so obvious, and the concequences could be just as severe.
@keltzy 4 жыл бұрын
My primary usage of a thesaurus is when I know exactly what word I want to use, but can't remember for the life of me what it was. Plugging a synonym into a thesaurus usually helps me find the word I was looking for to begin with. Forgetting words all of the time sucks.
@asgrimurhartmannsson 4 жыл бұрын
I read a novel once that broke all of those. It was confusing as hell. It got: 1: published by a real publisher. 2: awards.
@justareader____ 4 жыл бұрын
Ásgrímur Hartmannsson welcome to the soulless machine that is much of modern day publishing
@Leto85 4 жыл бұрын
My story involves pirates: will burned parchment corners get me an agent faster?
@ComedyLoverGirl 4 жыл бұрын
It'll get that manuscript picked up immediately! (and then chucked in the fireplace)
@Leto85 3 жыл бұрын
@R Bray I honestly believe you.
@Leto85 3 жыл бұрын
@R Bray 11:53 am in my country. 😂
@SysterYster 4 жыл бұрын
The first point is kinda funny when thinking of Lord of the Rings. It takes them about 100 pages to set out from the Shire and begin their adventure. My own story's adventure begins in the first sentence. XD Then goes back to show what happened earlier, later. I only use thesauruses when I realize that I have used the same word several times in a row and need to switch them out. Or, when I'm about to write a word, and I'm slightly unsure if the meaning is correct.
@SysterYster 4 жыл бұрын
@thanos1209 Yes, I know. Which is why it's fun to compare to an old book like LoTR. Don't you think? :)
@greggeverman5578 4 жыл бұрын
Same, on a lot of points.
@babybirdhome 4 жыл бұрын
Bear in mind that with LoTR, you're comparing the cream of the crop to nothing instead of comparing it to everything else like it. And the truth is a lot of people actually don't like those books because of the way they're written. Most people who are fans are only fans because of the movies. That's the truth.
@QrazyQuarian 4 жыл бұрын
Same.
@QrazyQuarian 4 жыл бұрын
@@babybirdhome If my friends and I are fans of the books because we liked the books, then there have to be a lot more than what you are saying. We just hang out and play nerd games. What are the odds we all agree the books are good based on what you have said? Secondly, I think modeling a book after one that you love is what makes writing good and improves the industry, and that is exactly what agents don't understand. Safe and easy are what agents like.
@Alkemisti 4 жыл бұрын
Michael Crichton wrote a successful book about the saurus.
@richarddoan9172 4 жыл бұрын
Readers were enraptured. Characters were en-raptored.
@blingwraith6951 4 жыл бұрын
good ol' saurus
@jamesc9274 4 жыл бұрын
It's fascinating to see how much of the Robert McKee doctrine has spread to the literary world. I work in UK Television and I did McKee's course in London about 25 years ago. I recognise almost all the points here from the advice he was handing out to aspiring screenwriters back in the early 90s.
@BleedingDaze01 4 жыл бұрын
The rejection rate from agents is much too high for my taste. Im tired of hearing "this isn't right for me" or we will not be going with" from people who don't even read a whole chapter of my book. I'll let the world decide if it's good or not and self publish it as an ebook. Then if it was meant to be, maybe someone will give it that chance to shine.
@michaelcurtis5844 4 жыл бұрын
Don't bother with literary agents. All they want are the latest trends and cookie cutter manuscripts.
@BleedingDaze01 4 жыл бұрын
@@michaelcurtis5844 im not surprised. They'll take anything trending nowadays but stuff that could actually sell well gets thrown away. Star wars had dozens of rejections until the right person found it, now look at it now.....even if it is time to maybe stop but still. You would think this would say "oh maybe i should give something new a chance" but instead they go with stuff that already been overused.
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
Just don't expect wild success when self publishing. The reality of that market is that you can make a living if you can build yourself into a brand but you'll need to be prepared to spend a lot of time marketing yourself. Develop a strong social media game. Try to get on podcasts devoted to your genre. That kind of thing. People rarely win the lottery and become a smashing success without big money marketing behind them. It's a hard road with no guarantees, but I hope you make it!
@BleedingDaze01 4 жыл бұрын
@@chriswhinery925 trust me, i know its not a guaranteed success. Its just i cant deal with agents right now. That "night in shining armor" is less likely to find me because im not super popular. But im also aware of the work it will take to self publish too. Right now i already have a website up, im just trying to build my social media now. Facebook and twitter aren't quite helping so im going to get an Instagram and see if that works. Im not quite sure how to get on a podcast, but ill look into that too.
@blauespony1013 4 жыл бұрын
In Germany there are about 100.000 books coming out every year. That are just the new books. Most of them will fail and find next to no readers. They just vanish in the mass of books. If the publishers would reject less and publish more there won't be any readers left. And you have to find the right publisher for your book, too. I've one publisher I can work with greatly. The endresult is way better than the first draft. On the other hand there was one publisher I hated. She was so not helpful and tried to correct things that were accurately researched ... if you have to discuss and defend nearly every plot point, that is kind of exhausting. And she was so politically correct that she totally missed her mark. Everything my male protagonist did was just bad. He was explaining something (he had more knowledge of than my female protagonist) and my editor was like "He is mansplaining things." etc. It was so horrible. In conclusion I would rather not publish my book at all than work with said editor again.
@prabhdeepsingh5642 4 жыл бұрын
I am reading "Infinite Jest" and it breaks all these rules and lit them up in a bonfire, intentionally. And I am loving that book.
@lizziebkennedy7505 3 жыл бұрын
But there's not many DFW in the world. Geniuses can do what they damn like.
@stevenlloyd39 4 жыл бұрын
The best advice I ever got was, "Read outside your genre." I understand reading modern books. I do. But I also love Fante, Bukowski, Hemingway, Miller, Steinbeck. I've never read Never Night. The premise sounds intriguing, but it's not original. Reading the writers above won't disable a new writer. Reading outside their comfort zone will only strengthen them.
@ddshocktrooper5604 4 жыл бұрын
Indeed, every genre follows most of these rules at their core, but do so in a completely different way. By reading many different genres it expands your thinking to consider other design choices one would not normally think of if they only read a narrow selection of works.
@francescosirotti8178 4 жыл бұрын
Author : "Call me Ishmael. Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world" Editor: Info dump! Rejected! I am SO smart!
@marikothecheetah9342 3 жыл бұрын
But Call me Ishmael is so classic, and to tell the truth, carries a LOT about character. We don't know if it's his true name or if he just chose a nickname. His father's name? Someone who inspired him? But you are right, it probably would be rejected. *mentally hugs poor Moby Dick*
@eldritchone1319 4 жыл бұрын
While starting with heavy topics immediately may not be a wise move for pacing reasons, though it can certainly set a certain tone, it strikes me as unprofessional for an industry professional to allow their personal issues relating to a touchy topic like alcohol, abuse, etc. to interfere with properly evaluating a work's merit as a work. If they can't handle it, they should have a colleague deal with it. A lot of of classic works touch upon sensitive and serious topics, too, so I can only assume such an editor who cannot read fictional depiction of whatever causes problems for them has an impoverished baseline for what they've read in the past. Which then raises questions about whether or not that editor should be working in certain genres/age categories/etc. in the first place, that may result in them coming across that material to begin with, if they're immediately going to reject it.
@claireholliday6721 4 жыл бұрын
EldritchLurker AMEN!
@lizziebkennedy7505 3 жыл бұрын
Our job is to know our markets. No point explaining to people who think it's 'personal', but agents understand the micro- segments of a market. The market for extreme and graphic content is very small, and doesn't tend to buy new retail books. Trouble is a lot of writers don't seem to know that their content is extreme and graphic and horribly decontextualised (gratuitous). That's because they rarely read widely in their own genre. They insist it's all just personal preference. But agents have to be able to SELL THE BOOK TO PUBLISHERS. That's the point.
@SupachargedGaming 4 жыл бұрын
*Sends book to an editor* "Oh no, this book isn't finished or ready" ... Yeah, that's why we send it to an *editor* ?
@austenhead5303 4 жыл бұрын
Editors/publishers want to invest as little time as possible in order to maximise profits, they're not going to hold a newbie's hand through the final eight drafts.
@SupachargedGaming 4 жыл бұрын
Well then say goodbye to new authors, I guess.
@austenhead5303 4 жыл бұрын
@@SupachargedGaming At least to the ones who can't get to basically the finished product on their own. Many can. And are. Find writer buddies who can play editor for you. Or pay a pro.
@SupachargedGaming 4 жыл бұрын
*golfclap*
@austenhead5303 4 жыл бұрын
@@SupachargedGaming Oh, is that what you meant from the start? I figured you meant send it to a publisher/agent who would have *their* editor help to finish it. I've had people think that before. And no.
@walteroakley9115 4 жыл бұрын
Good info as I am just about to start my first edit and I think I avoided most of them. Just finished my first draft... I will admit writing is more fun than editing.
@robertf3479 4 жыл бұрын
I agree, writing is more fun but I've found that rereading (editing) with a critical eye is usually a good thing. I tend to pick up on bits that either I should add, don't need in the story or should rewrite for clarity, especially that last bit. Good luck sir.
@reeck771 4 жыл бұрын
Sometimes, a slight edit is a chapter worth of value
@Ruylopez778 4 жыл бұрын
If you don't yet know the Writing Excuses podcast, that's another excellent resource
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
I dunno, I have limited experience with both but what I have done of them (mostly in a professional technical writing context) I've found editing oddly satisfying. Correcting something up to be better than it was is a good feeling.
@randeknight 4 жыл бұрын
That's why editors get paid and most writers do it for free.
@NA-di3yy 4 жыл бұрын
i wonder, can you name name at least one or two real literature masterpieces that would follow these platitudinous guidelines? it all sounds like a recipe for a cheap generic pulp.
@undeadnightorc 4 жыл бұрын
"It was a dark and stormy night..."
@jolenegovender3249 4 жыл бұрын
Lol
@khloecarver 4 жыл бұрын
Lmao
@origamiknife7556 4 жыл бұрын
if your heart rattles you should probably see somebody about that
@commandercaptain4664 4 жыл бұрын
She was in the middle of a battle, so it's good to call on a "MEDIC!".
@user-nf9xc7ww7m 4 жыл бұрын
Balance and rotate the heart. Tighten the valves. Blood change with synthetic will let the heart run longer. Make sure to get state inspection and tag every year 😁
@colinmurphy5508 4 жыл бұрын
I've only ever gotten two personalized rejections on my book. (Meg herself gave me a form-letter rejection.) One wrote me a very nice, detailed letter about how much she loved my sample chapters but rejected me anyway because it was "just not the right fit" and gave me no indication of what needed improved. The other said "I just didn't connect with your characters," but I doubt that had anything to do with weak voice.
@happychaosofthenorth 4 жыл бұрын
Sometimes I think when they say you're "not the right fit" what they're actually saying is, "I don't think it's marketable at this time" for whatever reason. Sometimes it all about money and what they think will sell and not about whether they think it's any good or not.
@whatevergoesforme5129 4 жыл бұрын
@@happychaosofthenorth It is understandable that money is a concern because it is a business and needs to survive financially.
@Ziaonfilmandtv 4 жыл бұрын
The other reason for rejection is that you subject/topic doesn’t fit the publishing house.
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
@@happychaosofthenorth Yeah "not the right fit" sounds like code for "we think we'll lose money". Publishing companies are for profit businesses, it's to be expected.
@hypnodelica 4 жыл бұрын
I imagine most Literary agents have quite narrow ideas about what they're looking for (whatever is currently popular) and pick up only the manuscripts that tick every box of their agenda... getting published if your work is good is likely more to do with having a thick skin and being persistent than anything else.
@JDGage 4 жыл бұрын
This advice was given to me and I wanted to share it with all of you. “Writing is a way of clarifying your thoughts on a matter. It also has the advantage that it forces you to make all your thoughts and beliefs on a given topic consistent. This point improves your credibility in a discussion because you then have a clear - unambiguous - explanation for all aspects of the topic. (Too often, many people's arguments are "rather ambiguous" and often downright contradictory.) It's worth noting that experienced people will often describe - in detail - what they are seeing in a technical investigation (i.e. what do I see in the microscope/photograph/scene etc). These - detailed -descriptions are then included somewhere in the final report. In summary, writing forces you to clarify your thoughts on a topic and then notice "fine details" you may have otherwise missed. Bringing all those "fine details" into one - consistent - story makes the difference between a credible report and a "not so credible" report. Writing - in itself - is a worthwhile activity as it helps you to grow in understanding. This is a goal that is quite apart from selling your writing." - Dennis Murphy
@DrTranofEvil 4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, this is both a Reminder of how far I’ve come and how meticulous I need to be to get farther. Thank you :-)
@ViceN53X 4 жыл бұрын
"With no conflict, there is no story." This is a problem I have with writers and their power fantasies. Their characters basically can beat everyone easily as the result of their power fantasy. It's incredibly annoying with roleplays
@danstory4286 3 жыл бұрын
Please elaborate. Your comment was one that I found most interesting.
@ViceN53X 3 жыл бұрын
@@danstory4286 One of the things I notice, and this is something I see in animes now is that the main characters don't really have struggles of some sort. Like every challenge they come across is always easy to overcome. And because these challenges are easy to overcome, there is no form of character development. Because there's nothing at stake. There's nothing difficult that challenges the main character. This is what these power fantasies are. Overpowered characters with no struggles whatsoever. They win every fight, they never lose, and they win in just seconds. Battles are always on sided. This is what I would call "Writer's Ego"
@ViceN53X 3 жыл бұрын
@@danstory4286 It's not just fights either, although it is something I see happen a lot. There's no character development. There's no struggle of any kind. No inner conflict. There's nothing about the character that makes them interesting. Like something they can't do even with all that power. Like for instance, Saitama from One Punch Man has a good inner conflict despite his overpowering abilities. That inner conflict being his boredom with all that power. His job as a super hero sucks because of how easy it is. That's a good inner conflict because it's obviously something he can't resolve in just one punch. In fact, in his case, doing things in one punch makes the situation worse and that's good! Now Goku is classic. Everyone loves Goku and we all know why. He's a powerful Super Hero who struggles to overcome a lot of challenges and strives to be better. Something we look up to. Batman and Ironman are my favorites because they e the ones who can struggle the most. Despite Batman and Ironman's intellect, they both still have conflicts to overcome. Like Batman's trauma of losing his parents, and his moral code behind the lack of killing even the villains. Ironman had trouble with his personal life due to his career as a super hero. And this all doesn't include the fact that they're mere human. All of these are good conflicts that younger writers don't understand.
@danstory4286 3 жыл бұрын
@@ViceN53X I would really like for you to read my work. I think your statements are thoughtful. Would you be willing to beta read for me? At least to analyze my heroes?
@ViceN53X 3 жыл бұрын
@@danstory4286 I suppose. Sure. . .
@AlexLifts777 4 жыл бұрын
I’m a indie author but I still found this information extremely valuable. You literally gave gold writing advice on top of what editors and agents look for
@michaelcurtis5844 4 жыл бұрын
It actually confirmed why I avoided agents and went the self publishing route.
@01What10 4 жыл бұрын
If these "editors" become so "triggered" over content in someone's manuscript that they cannot properly judge a submission, those are not professional editors and should NEVER be in that position.
@khloecarver 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly..
@lizziebkennedy7505 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, they are. They are all representative of a cross sect of the community. If you've failed to research agents properly, that's your problem. The vast majority tell you what they don't want to read, so it's not rocket science to heed it.
@danstory4286 3 жыл бұрын
@@lizziebkennedy7505 As a professional, they should be able to rise above their petty wants and do their jobs without bias or rancor. This is part and parcel of being a professional at almost anything.
@kayleighbrown459 3 жыл бұрын
@@danstory4286 That isn't how getting an agent works. They're not doctors. They don't have an obligation, professional or otherwise, to publish your book, especially when they have hundreds of other books coming in. Their job is to make a judgment call based on what the think will sell and what they like. Why would they want to waste their time on a book they don't feel comfortable with.
@danstory4286 3 жыл бұрын
@@kayleighbrown459 I don't know about that. Being a pro at just about anything requires putting aside your personal likes and dislikes. When I was a mechanic, I couldn't pick and choose which kinds of cars I would work on or not. "Sorry, Boss. I don't work on Volvos," would get me fired.
@yourdroid3373 4 жыл бұрын
1:46 into this and I can stop watching. I already know the list and it sums up pretty easily. "Your book was rejected because editors and agents are terrible at their jobs"
@keithmarlowe5569 4 жыл бұрын
Because they are recent college graduates with degrees they can't do anything with; and have never written anything beyond a term paper.
@lizziebkennedy7505 3 жыл бұрын
@@keithmarlowe5569 most of them are trained and qualified editors who cut their teeth on reading slush piles. They have seen it all. Especially the make authors who get so freaked out that the fierce scary lady didn't like the magnum opus.
@keithmarlowe5569 3 жыл бұрын
@@lizziebkennedy7505That's an Interesting point. You bring to my mind Ralphy in Christmas Story imagining his teacher"s response to his story.
@pippipster6767 4 жыл бұрын
Lots of stuff is refused only later to become best selling worldwide - be it books or music or art. Lots of people out there who think they know what they’re doing who don’t. Jokes on them. 🤣
@elcidbob 4 жыл бұрын
Don't discount the amount a publisher is willing to push a title and just dumb luck.
@theprocrastinator6813 4 жыл бұрын
Also there are writers that call their own work as something that isnt good enough, when in reality its actually a decent story. im sure lots of authors out there also underestimate what they can acheive
@diegourbina4911 4 жыл бұрын
True, but the way I see it is these people have to take risks with the work they're reviewing. If it flunks that's money lost, and it reflects negatively on them. So if they see any red-flags I don't blame them for rejecting it. The person taking the book is basically a salesman with a new item at the editor's door.
@TheDancingWriter 4 жыл бұрын
But the thing is is why would you want an agent to take on a work they're not interested in? If I, as a hypothetical agent, am simply not interested but end up accepting your work anyway, it's not going to get the best treatment possibly because I'm not simply not interested in vampire books.
@pippipster6767 4 жыл бұрын
Amber Forbes That’s true. But you also have things rejected because they just plain got it wrong ... arrogance sometimes? Or even ignorance?
@stellastarfield1111 4 жыл бұрын
So how did 50 Shades happen? I picked a random page and it immediately felt like ameteur fan fiction. When I found out that's what it was previously I was Shook. I didn't expect to be right. Lmao. Rhetorical question, by the way.
@darthkek1953 4 жыл бұрын
It's genuinely terrible writing, and yes it started as a fan-fiction slash blog, Twilight erotica. The author removed the Twilight references and self-published (ebook, on-demand). Because of the kinky nature and a then lack of woman-orientated erotica (particularly kinky vs romance erotica) it garnered a fanbase of frustrated middle-aged married women, basically via word of mouth. News of the success hit the news, then Vintage picked it up based on the existing popularity. I know you said rhetorical question, but the fact it was self published and not editor-chosen is relevant.
@stellastarfield1111 4 жыл бұрын
Darth KEK - Oh wow I didn't know it was originally self published. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for sharing!
@WritingSch 4 жыл бұрын
Darth KEK It’s not fair that she gets money and fame from it when it was fanfic. And I know you won’t believe but there are fanfics out there that are well written and would deserve money and fame more.
@PlayStationElation00 4 жыл бұрын
What I find mind boggling is why Stephanie Myer didn't sue E.L. James for plagiarism by profiting from a Twilight fanfic. She'd still have grounds for a lawsuit even after changing the character names. It wasn't exactly a secret that she ripped off Twilight and turned into a smutty fanfic.... Whatever...
@dionysiaex5538 4 жыл бұрын
The lesson of 50 Shades is all these so called rules only apply if you're unheard of or unpopular. If you're known and/or popular the standards suddenly disappear.
@jwilkens1221 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for these tips! I'm preparing my manuscript and this has been incredibly helpful :)
@zoot9393 3 жыл бұрын
This was incredibly helpful! Thanks so much for creating these videos.
@lilobutt625 4 жыл бұрын
Alternative title: how to write a book nobody will remember or care about in just a couple months ✌🏻😁
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
Oh come on, it'll be just like the next book they read
@darkartsdabbler2407 4 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to your weird, hard to follow book that “breaks all the rules”
@marikothecheetah9342 3 жыл бұрын
@@darkartsdabbler2407 I was surprised how many fans Joyce still has.
@danlewis7707 4 жыл бұрын
With regard to the numerous ditractors of the points made in this video, the following points are bunk: 1. Yeah, but this famous author didn't do x or y and they're famous! Counter: if a former literary agent and writer can't persuade you on writing and submitting manuscripts who can? 2. It's mostly luck (subtext : So I don't have listen) Counter: Luck is not a variable under your control chance is always an issue, but your writing is absolutely under your control. Show a potential publisher or literary agent that fact by writing in a way their customers will want to read. 3. I want to be original, you are just trying to make us conform! Counter: William Shakespeare, Rembrant Michelangelo and Bethovan are all considered creators of great art. But they were employees who did their job in a timely manor and who tried to respect their patrons expectation first. If they had put their artistic integrity before their professionalism they might not be remembered at all. What a tragedy for the world that would be. If you want to write for money you have to do your job. She is telling you how. So shut up and listen.
@dionysiaex5538 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Dan. Now go fuck yourself.
@chriswhinery925 4 жыл бұрын
"If you want to write for money you have to do your job." BIngo. If you really just want to do things your way, fine. Do what you want, self publish, best of luck to you, I hope you find an audience. Sending your book to a publishing company is a job interview. Show them that you know how to do the job you are applying for. There are some valid criticisms of the publishing industry, however, "But I don't WANT to follow the rules!" is not one of them.
@dionysiaex5538 4 жыл бұрын
@@chriswhinery925 This would make sense if there was an objective standard of criteria for the job "fiction writer." There isn't. This is why, in the end, you are merely writing to please a set of currently powerful people. Your "job interview", as you put it, is to appeal to their ego.
@danlewis7707 4 жыл бұрын
@@dionysiaex5538 I wish you the best of luck.
@Air_Serpent 4 жыл бұрын
Looking at the comments here makes me know why I have issues with reading self published books. There’s probably good ones out there.
@FlipMacz 4 жыл бұрын
Literally, this channel is the best on KZfaq. Meg you are an amazing educator! Ty🌸
@robleach460 4 жыл бұрын
Your videos like this one or treasure trove of information, a really great place to start. Thank you.
@VVeedragon 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. You highlighted many important points that are helping me to write a story for a JRPG I am working on. I have been having trouble expressing to my team of writers the main points of our exposition and protagonist that would make the story more entertaining and readable! 10/10
@walklikearobot 4 жыл бұрын
I watch a surprising number of videos about writing/publishing books for someone who doesn't even write what am I doing here?
@seankrug4995 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the information you’ve provided. Thanks so much.
@sharonmutter7932 3 жыл бұрын
This is really good content that I never really thought about. Thanks for explaining in-depth! Definitely helped!
@BubblegumCrash332 4 жыл бұрын
Sounds like editors want cookie cutters stories.
@PlayStationElation00 4 жыл бұрын
They want celebrities and political figures.
@Arian545 4 жыл бұрын
I mean you can still use normal structures to create something original and interesting
@broccolinyu911 4 жыл бұрын
sounds like you want an excuse for poor writing.
@PlayStationElation00 4 жыл бұрын
@@broccolinyu911 Great writing doesn't get you published or represented much in the same way great acting doesn't land you roles or Hollywood gigs.
@broccolinyu911 4 жыл бұрын
@@PlayStationElation00 if at first you don't succeed, try again. Not like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Stephen King's books ever got rejected many times before they became renown.
@superjoule6277 4 жыл бұрын
After watching this video, it’s dawned on me why there are so few quality fantasy novels these days. Literally a song of ice and fire is the only book series that holds a candle to lord of the rings. That’s not acceptable, we need better agents who actually understand art.
@devoringdemonsoulq9086 3 жыл бұрын
George can’t be cut
@SarahBethMac 3 жыл бұрын
Check out Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson!
@lizziebkennedy7505 3 жыл бұрын
You are not the arbiter of quality. It's just your opinion, and sales suggest you are wrong.
@marikothecheetah9342 3 жыл бұрын
@@lizziebkennedy7505 Sales alone: The Bible, Harlequins and similar stuff. :D
@reelscreenwriting8940 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this :) Always valuable content, I love it.
@JDClair 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this. It's giving me a lot to think about.
@haydenmuhs 4 жыл бұрын
Very helpful for my book, "White-tailed Kite". Checked them all off the list!
@hydrolito 4 жыл бұрын
I've read a lot of comic books and magazines they do a lot of showing.
@abbasqasim8688 4 жыл бұрын
Always a pleasure listening to you and your shared pointers! I am in the midst of writing a collection of short-stories and I have been struggling with setting the right amount of character depth and description in each of them. I surely have noted down some of the brilliant points you made and can’t thank you enough. 🤗 Your videos help me a lot, although I wish I knew you personally so that I could have you as my mentor. Take care and more power to you! x
@MrWisdom7 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tips. I've definitely picked up some points on how to improve my writing.
@zedatkinszed1216 4 жыл бұрын
Red Flag # 1 is straight up from Save the Cat Red Flag 2 & 3 is ok but sometimes telling can be ok. And sometimes exposition is appropriate. Red Flag 4 & 5: fine but you'd never have published Ulysses would you Red Flag 6: Ok but compare with the opening of the first few James Bond novels. Red Flag 7: This is about taste - surely Catcher in the Rye.
@PeterG00000 4 жыл бұрын
To be fair, nobody should have published Ulysses.
@RyMann88 4 жыл бұрын
My favorite advice is how everyone tells you to use active voice instead of passive voice... Just like Show/Tell, it has its place. You can and SHOULD tell, but only when absolutely needed (such as dialog).
@stefanofranzini3961 4 жыл бұрын
@@PeterG00000 can you believe I wanted to write the exact same thing?
@gongzo25670 4 жыл бұрын
When people say they feel triggered everyone else thinks it's a death threat ☹️
@HowToBeChristian 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome tips! Thank you for posting!
@shaynewhite1 4 жыл бұрын
This video inspired me to rewrite the beginning of my first chapter -- and it's so much better now!! Thank you!
@anirbanroy9806 4 жыл бұрын
Other than real poor quality of the submission, rejection is done on the inability of the agent. There are many who just should not have joined this profession. But they have! And your good or excellent submission is in his o her hands. And you are gone. Also these agents give big lectures about quality of writing while they expect that in the first page there are some 5 murders, 70 lovers, some love scenes and blah blah! This system of agenting must be abolished. The big publishing houses are getting lot of money. So they don't care about new talent, nurturing talent. And when finally sales go down they blame the public habit of not reading anymore because of Internet stuff, digital stuff. But they don't realize they are also contributing to it. Established writers gradually lose their mettle. But the publishers did nothing in the mean time to seek alternative. They did not give chance to new talent. Money-happy they had been lazy to depend on unworthy agents
@wclark3196 4 жыл бұрын
Sounds like someone is a bad writer and would rather whine than improve.
@anirbanroy9806 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 sounds like someone is an egghead and will continue whining while not understanding reality
@anirbanroy9806 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 by the way how many Noble prizes have you won for writing?
@wclark3196 4 жыл бұрын
@@anirbanroy9806 as many as you have. And I make a very good living from my writing. But you keep deluding yourself.
@anirbanroy9806 4 жыл бұрын
@@wclark3196 oh really? Do you? And so do I lol
@fearstation 4 жыл бұрын
1:10 so basically for my book I have to find a publisher who can handle real life horror and violence for my novel
@ihopeicanchangethisnamelat7108 3 жыл бұрын
Even better, give them a demonstration of the violence. Make them feel the horror as you break in, show your true monstrous form and chase them through their office, chanting that the key to stopping you is in the novel. They need to be motivated to read or they’ll never finish it.
@patriciabass9502 4 жыл бұрын
I've watched a few videos with writing tips. Some I just couldn't get into. But, I like how she is very clear, to the point, and her acknowledgement of variables as well as admitting that she isn't an expert on every type of writing. Also, while listening to her, my novel in progress ran through my head with me evaluating whether I am using these pitfalls and how to strengthen my wording.
@jenniecreel594 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. It opened my eyes to many mistakes I've been doing. I'm certainly interested in learning more and will be watching more of your videos. Already subscribed! Great work and please keep it coming!
@gh0rochi363 4 жыл бұрын
So basically a slow burn story with buildup gets rejected. So shoehorn in an explosion and your in. Sad.
@josephoyek6574 4 жыл бұрын
Hello. I'm trying to write a lightnovel about a guy who can "see" fictional characters manifest into the real world (as sort of spirit/ghost-like beings). Think of them as the 'soul of the book'. These spirits can make the difference between a horrible story and a bestseller: when a story is fragmented or un-memorable, it's because the spirit is unhappy with how the story was handled. Conversely, a spirit that is happy with everything equates to a story that is very expressive and relatable. The protagonist works as a literary editor and utilizes these spirits to turn story drafts into a polished product. Interacting with these spirits often lead to a deeper insight on the reasons and the thought process of the author for writing his/her story. For this type of premise, do you think I need to have high stakes for the plot? As you said, I want this to be just a "slow burn", slice-of-life kinda story. I do plan for one arc to have a plot where the author is considering suicide (and protagonist realizes this in time from his interactions with her story's spirit) but that is just for that one arc only. Rather than have heart-racing high stakes everytime, I want the spirits to be just a mechanism for the protagonist to understand the author, as well as himself, just a bit more below surface level.
@queerlibtardhippie9357 4 жыл бұрын
As a reader, I hate slowburn. It's slow. A book is not like a movie. Makes the book hard to read.
@jamesgravil9162 Жыл бұрын
@@queerlibtardhippie9357 "As a reader, I hate slowburn." I guess Lord of the Rings and 1984 are out, then. 🙂
@Frazer777 4 жыл бұрын
Similarly, I only had to watch 30 seconds of this video to know it was pointless. The flip side to this is: how many of the books signed up by literary agents actually do anything? For all their talk of 'expertise' and vast 'experience' what percentage of their books go on to sell any worthwhile amount? Seems to me they take a scatter-gun approach and get lucky now and then. Frederick Forsyth's 'The Day of The Jackal' was rejected as 'too far-fetched'. Through sheer 'luck' he found a publisher and it went on to redefine the genre. JK Rowling's Harry Potter was rejected saying: '.. there is no market for boy wizards...' There are hundreds of incidents where bestselling novels were rejected by agents and publishers who really should have known better. And I really don't buy the idea that an agent could be 'triggered' by a word or a trope. Supposedly 'professional' people whose job it is to present work to a mass audience should look past their own bias and prejudice and not let their 'snowflakery' hinder someone's career.
@marikothecheetah9342 3 жыл бұрын
Amen! When somebody editing does not like the premise or whatever - give it to you colleague editor or at least suggest it to the author. "This may have nothing to do with your work and story, just editor's favs" - wtf? It's the most unprofessional thing I have ever heard. :/
@polyhymnia701 3 жыл бұрын
Hear, hear! 👏👏👏
@kayleighbrown459 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, they should. But they don't. That isn't how the world works. If you're job is to make a judgment call of who deserves to get their book published, why would they choose something with a topic that makes them feel uncomfortable as opposed to something that doesn't? That isn't being unprofessional, that's being an agent. Not to be cruel, but your career isn't their problem unless they want to take you on as a client. Also, those books you quoted were the exception, not the rule. She actually did a pretty good video about that too that explains things better than I do.
@marikothecheetah9342 3 жыл бұрын
@@kayleighbrown459 the issue is what is a trigger for one is a delight for the other. I could not be editor for 'It' because of my koulrophobia but I would make sure to at least recommend someone to the author.
@kayleighbrown459 3 жыл бұрын
@@marikothecheetah9342 Then go to another agent. Most agents have a pretty detailed list of stuff they won't accept. You need to research.
@NeilABrown 2 жыл бұрын
I love your content, your very helpful. I'm getting close to being done with writing my first fiction book and getting very nervous about the publishing process. Thanks for sharing this.
@tedereTSSK 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I just discovered you. And I'm greatly encouraged by your sharing. Appreciate it.
@samuelstephens3784 4 жыл бұрын
As purple as that passage was, the correction was dead cold.
@chiefgitsu 4 жыл бұрын
it definitely wasn't yellow
@stevstring 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for putting out such helpful content. I’m afraid I may be a wee bit guilty of one (or more) of those pesky red flags. I know that I know better, but sometimes writing is a can’t see forest for the trees kinda thing. Peace.
@greggeverman5578 4 жыл бұрын
Very true.
@gwenniegrant5287 4 жыл бұрын
A fantastic video with superb content. Thank you!
@thecreativebookwritingpen37 4 жыл бұрын
Nicely explained about storytelling. There is a good video, I've been looking for a long, long time.
@mononoke721 4 жыл бұрын
Wait, I can't start my story with hundreds of pages of setup like Lord of the Rings, the best-selling book in the world except for the bible? Must have been a fluke that one.
@tsuobachi 4 жыл бұрын
The bible takes a long time to get going too. Didn't seem to hurt it much.
@rayeiswriting4372 4 жыл бұрын
If you make the next Lord of the Rings, you can do whatever the heck you want. But, people like me are not writing the next literary classic that will transcend space and time and become legends and fairly good movies. So I need to follow these rules.
@graciemartin4206 4 жыл бұрын
@@tsuobachi there's a whole part 1 (old testament) until the inciting incident happens (the resurrection)
@tsuobachi 4 жыл бұрын
@@graciemartin4206 That was hilarious, haha! You nailed it. :)
@DravenWolfe 4 жыл бұрын
Pretty much means I'm screwed, LOL. All my books are slow Burns. Heck, the first book in one series is nothing but world-building and a small amount of Adventure
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