$tern has priced the regular guy out of the game.

Prices have gotten too HIGH!!!! Market is Saturated!!!

I would argue it's not just Venom. It's pinball in general. Prices on a niche luxury toy are far too high in Stern's model, and ridiculously stupid in JJPs model. Used games are sitting right next to the NIB games not being bought because the market is now beyond sensibility and people are cutting back on toys. Ex.: I have a Foo Prem at $8,800 presently and no bites, but one offer at $7,500. Perhaps the 'bubble' is deflating?

I would agree with the Marvel fatigue. Personally, I'm sick and tired of superhero themed pinballs. I'd like to see more original ideas, that have no link to comic book characters, TV shows or films. Oh, and yes - the prices are insane!

The problem isn't demand. The problem is price. A game has to hit on all fronts if you're charging 10k or higher. Also, the pros arent cutting it. A pro cant be a completely stripped down game with a price tag of 7k or higher.

If they could get pros back to 6000, premium 7600, and LE at 10500 I think they’d be able to boost their sales and get closer to market equilibrium. You’re spot on about the DLC content. That was set in stone when the Disney guy took over.

Congratulations on 8000+ subs Cary😊 Great video, yea premium is the way to go on Venom. Prices are crazy, a little addition to the video would be for us in Europe, we pay 1000usd for fly them home and plus 25% vat on top of that, so the pro is around premium price for us, another point Stern should take into consideration

About your point on DLC: I'd argue Stern already does that with their toppers unlocking modes in-game

Think they have reached tipping point with the price. AS each game increases I can't sell a recent older game to mostly finance a newer game. 007 pro was my last and that was £8500.

Same deal when I saw it was too fast and too baron however spare a thought for us here in the UK with Sterns Pricing as follows: Pro $10700 Premium $14560 LE $20k Now thats what I call Overpriced especially for a mediocre Theme and layout

Problem with LEs at least in 2023 is every single Distro is charging more than MSRP! Which is absolutely BS in my eyes. I've been completely priced out of LEs for a very long time.

Superhero fatigue is definitely real. I love Venom as a theme, and even I'm like, "I like the fastness of the pin, but still..."

Pricing likely won't hold at this level + Marvel fatigue + (and probably most important) it looks boring.

I do agree that 5k was the turning point for the Pro games. I became a LOT more selective when a Pro went above that. As they kept going up, my selectivity became higher and higher. Yes, I bought Godzilla, but it was a dream theme, and an amazing game (and yes, I played it before buying one). But am I paying that for a "lesser" game? Absolutely not. A game needs to knock it out of the park for me to think of buying at the current prices. Stern already knows that, and they know that I'm not alone in that.

Three factors: 1) Prices are getting out of reach to most people's budget. 2) market is over saturated with new machines released. 3) what we are getting in hardware/software in comparison to what they are costing is not adding up. Older Williams/Bally/DataEast machines used to be much more complex in hardware than recent modern Pins. You could argue a forth point of Venom being a less known or desired theme (again compared back to the cost of what you are getting). So it all seems to come to one key factor: Cost for what you are getting.

People are saving for John Wick and Jaws.

Even the difference between $4000 and $7000 isn't enough to get pinball out of the luxury class. You can buy a PS5, and Xbox, and a top end gaming rig for half of that. Theme is king.

I wish I put my money on any Stern over Haggis. The ponzy scheming Damian after two years of waiting said 120 more days after taking all my money which I expected game to be in shipped. After 120 days he now says 6 more months. Now wants to give me and 3 others a refund AFTER “production “ is over. Which most likely will be never. I got robbed ! Take any stern any day!

There’s no space and money for average machines at these prices! As someone stated here already Europe prices are insane 9k Pro, 12k premium and 17k for an LE forget it Ppl are being careful and selective where to spent money…I don’t think Venom is sufficient

I would really like to get my first pinball machine, but even the old prices are hard to justify. So many other things that provide more value for that price range. Still, I’d consider getting one if the theme and play where something I connected with, AND I could finance it at 0% over a longer period of time. I don’t see that happening. That, and these things aren’t small. My kids have moved out and I still don’t have enough room.

Game design & theme is definitely a contributing factor but look at the last 8 pinball machine releases.....Scooby Doo, Foo Fighters, Godfather, Galactic Tank Force, Queen, Pulp Fiction, This is Spinal Tap, Centaur and now Venom. The exception is Pulp Fiction LE (we will be lucky if we see this before 2025)......nothing else has sold through or even generated mediocre sales.....prices have gone up an average of 15%-25% for every model....we recently saw Pinball Brothers drop the price on Queen by $1,000 to $8995 and it's still not selling. Deflation is here and it's going to force manufacturers to offer price protection to Distributors to help them move through inventory otherwise they will simply refuse to bring in new inventory. Some of these pinball manufacturers will not survive Deflation. The economy is having a direct impact on everyone's wallet and their spending. Goto your local barcade/arcade and see how many of the above pinball machines do they have available for play? My best guess is 1 and that's Foo Fighters....some may have Godfather or James Bond but that's it. I haven't seen a Scooby Doo, Galactic Tank Force or Queen anywhere in the wild. It's actually got to be scary for these pinball manufacturers to see the rapid decline in consumer demand because it's just beginning and there's no end in sight. Businesses will start to feel the struggle soon.....it's going to get ugly very quickly....over the next 3-6 months.

If you fail a battle via running out of time or draining, your path loses all its progress (the dots on the grid), and you’ll lose any awards you had for completing boxes. So entering a battle early definitely has a risk. And enemies do fight back, if you don’t hit a shot for ten seconds or so they attack you and regenerate some of their health. 👍

I played a bunch of games on the Premium at Comic-Con and really enjoyed it. I'm sure some people will change their tune after they've played the Premium. Can't speak to the Pro as I didn't bother playing it since I have one on order to route.

I don't love the prices, but it's marvel fatigue for me. Deadpool was the last one I bought and enjoyed. Had avengers and sold it right away.

I went to Pintastic yesterday and played a lot of Venom. I have been plodding for my first machine for the last year and a half. I was hoping the pro would suffice but it really did feel sad after I played the premium. That being said, I really loved the premium. I didn’t come close to learning the game/figuring it out as I was in a crowded area, etc, but I walked away super impressed. The only real “letdown” I can recall is the 4 armed Spider-Man “doppelgänger” wasn’t really all that cool to hit. I feel like this is a machine I could sink a ton of time into at home. When I left the game and came back later and scanned in, it asked if I wanted to continue my game. No idea what that meant so there is a lot of learning involved!! So I’d definitely consider it for my first pin, but also seriously looking at Deadpool and TMNT. Mando and FF are also right up there but not as cool themes for me.

I'll take an old classic fixer upper.

Jut my 2 cents. Pricing is nuts right now, and I don't see the day I will be able to purchase a full gameroom. Here in Canada a pro goes for almost 11k canadian if we include the 15% taxes of where I'm living and this does not include transport. Retailers are pretty useless imo and this means paying a second transport most of the time. That would be a wise move from Stern to offer direct sales and pass the saving to their customers. Other industries like guitars and mountain bikes are doing well with this model. Here's my opinion on current pricing and offering. Pricing should be game dependent according to the bill of material and assembly time required + overhead vs desired profit margin. Pro: should be 5 to 6k. The machines are OK as they are stripped down version and that's fine besides the price. Premium: should be 7 to 8k. And it doesn't feel that "PREMIUM" as it is right now. Besides the full gameplay experience with the complete playfield and different art, you get nothing else for your 2.7k extra at current pricing . Let's be honest, the BOM for those extras is probably around 500, so stern is actually asking way too much for the premium. To make it feel premium as most of those machines end up in house and not locations, they should include more stuff. Better speakers, like the ones in the LE, but behind the standard black panel. Anti-reflective glass. Side armor stickers. Shaker. And, basic straight one tone colored powder coating for legs, rails and lockbar. LE: should be 10k in their current form. If they want to charge more, it should be fully loaded. Everything should be powder coated with sparkles or metallic finish (Legs, coin door, shooting rod plate, lock bar, side rails, apron, hinges, speaker grill). It should have the game specific shooting rod and a physical knocker included also. Should have the topper included or at the very minimum a pre-sale exclusive access to it at a very significant discounted price(like 50% off) if they don't want to unveil it at the same time as the machines. I don't own any game yet. Regarding Venom, not interested at all. For me, it's Deapool pro and TNMT pro that I would like to own in the last 5 years or so releases....

stern needs to get back to the 2020 price range

It would be nice once in awhile that stern would do a sale on their machines. You know give back to their customers. Me personally though I am in the 12% for venom but I am going to wait until next year for trying to have some financial responsibility. Good stuff bud!

Pricing needs to be where it was in 2019, that’s the truth.

1000 LEs makes them not an LE. Go back to 500. Doesn’t feel premium anymore. And 13k is insane. I’d only pay that for an Elwin title.

Played a lot of Venom this weekend at SFGE and its going to be an awesome game. Both the Pro and Premium are a lot of fun and I can't wait for it to come out.

I think a big factor is how many machines where released at the beggining of the year, on top of that it's summer and since the main market is now the home market. People are taking vacations and whatever pinball money they had saved already got spent on the various pins that recently got released. "Foo Fighters, The Godfather, Final Resistance, Scooby Doo, Galactic Tank Force, Pulp Fiction" I think it's safe to say the market is a bit saturated and the prices are just too high to buy this many machines at once. It would be wise for Pinball Manufacturers to wait after summer for another release. This pinball machine insn't helping it by not having any killer mechs to help justify the price. I really hope this helps Pinball to keep prices in check.

I got got confused when I started hearing river flows in you towards the end because I thought my son was playing in the other room until I realized it was part of your video 😂

The entire economy is taking a hit. Houses sitting on market a lot longer, including price reductions which we didnt see 6+ months ago. Interest rates have climbed. I still believe all of it was produced due to stimulus money. I believe Foo sat right at the tipping point.

“Next Time on American Greed” !!!!! Seth Davis destroys Stern Pinball !!!!!

These prices are outrageous. I get it, stern wants to capitalize on the whales. But those that arent whales and have sensibilities still REFUSE to buy at these prices. They will simply go without rather than feed into the behemoth. If there was a solid game at $5500 again, the amount of people willing to drop their saved up pinball cash is astronomical. But dont think we arent capable of saving and saving and saving. Nearly all of us know enough people or places to get our fix. It comes down to whether or not these companies want our money or not. Sidenote: Even at $5500, Venom pro is a no go for most people. Stop making the premium and LEs play so much different than the pros.

Love how you shilled for this game in the previous video and now that the masses don't agree with you, you came back to your normal self. It's important to hold companies accountable for mailing in games and increasing prices for less and less game. Speak with your wallets and let your distributor know we aren't going to take it.

With venom being rumored I took this opportunity a week before it was at comic con to get GZ pre NiB. Figured it was a good time to buy before they are sold out after seeing venom haha. I was right. Price is way to high now and JJP will have to adjust as well.

The theme is cool and Brian Eddy makes the best fan layouts. The prices are rough though. I enjoyed my FF premium, put 1200 games on and let it go.

Who has $$$ to buy it? Those with deeper pockets than I probably just bought a FF, PF and maybe a SD that they are still waiting on. Me, I just get to stare through the glass and keep working on my late 70's early 80's games, which are AWESOME. Still who wouldn't want some newer machines?

Would be cool if they had fights were you lost points if you get “ hit” and each hit you lose more and so on…..

Mark my words Godzilla is going to be the peak of modern pinball

Like someone else wrote, at the current pricing, only dream themes... Foo Fighters was that for me. Companies rarely reduce prices after they see customers will pay, but maybe Stern would be compelled to adjust the value by returning the features to the pro/premium lines. For Pros, playability affecting mechs should be a must. At blades could be added without affecting reliability for operators. Premiums should include shakers, expression/blades and maybe the 5-1/4 speakers at their price. Include a topper and save the exclusivity tags and powder coating for LEs.

Definitely not just the game being meh (even though Yeti's art always being amazing, we're not strictly paying for art, however) but yes, the price structures and the fact they gut the Pro games now compared to years past (the one that comes to mind between minimal differences is Star Trek Pro and Premium with the regular plastic ramps vs. the wire ones and some playfield toys and the armor). Marvel fatigue is very real as much as I love Marvel. I can also see Stern changing their tune soon (over the next game or two other than this one) and think your assessment about it is accurate on that front as money is tight for more than not for leisure. Great vid, man.

Must be tough buying pins in America :)) He in the UK, a Venom pro is £8,295 ( $9,950), Premium £11,295 ($13,550) , LE £15,495 ($18,595) You guys have it REAL good on pricing. Check these $ amounts. Insane

I legitimately love spiderman and Venom but im not exactly the prime pinball collector candidate. 2 games is good enough for me for a while

I bought a Venom pro. I enjoy the speed of the game and it will look great next to my Avengers Infinity Quest. The pro also has the Carnage ball lock.

Every hit you take from an enemy should reduce flipper power until you can’t possibly fight back and you lose your ball.

Danger and Elwin had to flip this whitewood and they didn't say anything? "Yeah Eddy, i think you are ready on to something here" Both should lose their reserved employee parking spaces.

People aren't buying it because the price increase, you get way more from a deadpool for the same price.... IMHO

The pro’s are soooo hit and miss now. Some of them make sense, but more and more they’re so stripped that you have to pass. They want everyone buying 10k premiums for home. F THAT

I’d like to see an original virtual table converted into a physical table. Volkan or Blood Machines comes to mind.

They need to go to 3 games per year instead of 4 or 5. Also, the art just looks too busy and way too bright for Venom. It should have consisted of more blue, black and grey, and has way too much red etc... It reminds me of deadpool.

fewer home sales is good news for the small city(500k-1m pop) operator that can corner the market.

One thing I would like to point out, in Godzilla, which most people love, when fighting the different Kaiju, I do not recall 1 negative effect during the various battles or do they ever ‘hit back.’

Could it also be the modern art package trend? Some of the new playfields are so busy its hard to keep track of what the hell is going on. I miss clean playfields that do what they to do but don’t slap me upside the head with a color explosion.

I think it's just that venom is not a fun pin to play. We have a pro here... I've played it a few times... the modes are confusing and it feels more like a treadmill grindy game more than a fun experience.

In for an LE. Price is wacky and Venom is not a favorite theme, but the gameplay, art, and innovative code have sucked me in. Looks like a lot of fun and I'm excited to get it!

Cause the layout is lame and Marvel shit has been done to death.

We wont see Stern price drops until the Elwin games start to show a downward trend.

I agree. Price are way too high on NIB pinball

Bond/Both Bonds/60-th are absolutely phenomenal pinball machines!!! I could play only these 2-games for the rest of my life and be happy!!!

I think you need to add the economical recession in the balance.

No way I am paying these prices. Bring them back down to 6/7.5 and I will shop. Until then, I will just go to the local barcade. There is 3 of them in my area.

I think Venom Premium looks great! The art, the music, and the code is still only at .8. Trying to sell me fully loaded Sth Pro to get one.

Try living in Australia and looking to buy a your first pinball. $12,000AU ($8,142USD) including shipping and tax for a pro and almost $16,000 for a premium. Jurrasic Park or Deadpool are far more appealing than Venom but still hard to justify to the wife.

Very good point of view - I would say it’s even more valid for rest of the world - there is still a chance of slow sales ramp up like we had for Deadpool just because sometimes singular games works well for casual players and because of code magics work… who knows…

2 absolutely amazing games per year!! Not 4 water downed games 🎉🎉

They should remake some old solid state games from the late 70s early 80s.

I have a few ideas for Stern. But l'm not sharing for the marketing department. Could this be the rise and fall of Jack Danger?

The price of everything is higher. If anything, most things have increased more than pinball machines have, and at least pinball machines hold their value pretty well, and much better compared to other electronics. Used game prices are stable, and have not dropped, and new game prices will not be reduced either. It does seem like Foo Fighters was recently released, and they keep reproducing their most popular machines, so people just dont have enough money to buy everything. We are not talking about a $25 blu ray move. Also, people are limited by space regarding how many machines they can own at one time. Too many new games have come out over the past 3 months or so, so they are creating their own issues by releasing new titles too fast. The pinball business is as strong as it has ever been, most likely stronger, and if the game is good and popular it will sell , and if they make more duds like Led Zep it simply will not.

I went with a pro for my route but for home/collector I'd be out for sure.

Not getting LE cause I want to play and don't want to spend an extra $4k for what it gives. Distributers are tacking on extra shipping and costs compared to premium. $4k is another pin 😂. Collectors have their favorite fan layout and don't want it. What they don't realize is this is the best fan layout ever made 😈.

The fan layout turned me off first. Even if I loved it, the price is simply a dealbreaker.

Great video! Just finished watch…you nailed it, those are the reasons

I am NOT buying anything new anymore that isn’t a dream theme, and even then I’m not buying LE’s.

Foo sold well in my opinion because so many new comers. How many times have you read on pinside or facebook group "it's my first game". Me included. Market is too saturated and pricey. Do we actually know what it's selling publicly though?

I just want a godzilla, stranger things and JP premium. That's it. THATS IT. LETS START A FUND FOR ME CARY

The only way I see prices going down is if there is more competition in the space.

Even those with huge game rooms run out of room and become selective. We have all played the fan layout to death. It's worth waiting to see if the code is good and then buy a finished product. And most of all: waiting.on the next Keith design.

I personally am very excited about Venom and have an LE on order 🤷🏻‍♂️if others aren’t excited that’s fine. I will happily add it to my collection.

Your analysis is spot on, but of course only time will tell. I believe another factor is that Elwin is next.

I just got my day 1 "home Foo Pro" on Friday. They're trying hard to eliminate the Pro all together from their tier by stripping them and now putting them last since Bond. I'm definitely not waiting 5 months for this "P3 The Pin" version. But i think having a nice Pro available to the public could've saved sales for this, atleast initially.

i have commented before about the state of pinball and how Godzilla hit at the perfect time. people in general are doing other things without Covid and not staying home which gave a peak to pinball, ...economy is not nearly as good and folks are tightening up on all recreational things...prices are a piece of the puzzle but not all of it....saying the game is no good is just an excuse to not buy it..face reality, prices for everything are going way up...most folks salaries aren't keeping up with inflation so something has to give...

I have a small time "hobby route" that helps fund my personal pinball collection. I've been buying nib pros and routing them with great success, but with that said I won't pay 7k for a pro. Unless prices go down(they wont) I don't foresee myself buying a nib anytime soon. Instead I'll go back to buying pros on the used market.

I was in. For now I'm out. Def in the camp of need to try it first before buying.

They could have stuck any theme on this game. I feel stern had this playfield layout design for a while and they just drew a theme out of a hat. It still looks fun to play though

I'm likely getting an LE, this game looks FAST as heck...and I love fast games

Most of the discretionary income people had is now gone. There are no more bailouts, stimuls checks, or unemployment goodies to use. Throw in a pandemic, inflation, interest rates throught the roof, AND the return of the Studen Loans; you now have conditions that cannot sustain the cost of a new pinball game, at any price. I love this hobby but my family comes first.

Also why distros are STILL sitting on Toy Story's

I do like the game, buuuuuut I can't swing picking up two new games in a short period of time. I've got an order for Godzilla Premium and I enjoy being married to my wife. Venom is a no go for me. Edit: Man on battle mode it would be cool if an opponent's attack could cause a flipper to go to say 75% or like 25% power or no ability to trap a ball making it more challenging to fight.

Games are just too expensive to even consider unless they are completely 100 on theme, art, toys, shots, music and callouts . And let’s not forget, Sterns are kind of cheaply made. Easy pass otherwise. Prices have to come down to earth because even Wick, Jaws, BTTF won’t do it for me in this inflation high recession era.

10k to Marvel machine. No thanks. Lucky i got rid of that Avenger pin.

My game room would be pretty boring if I had five godzillas sitting in a row, I like a variation in layouts (and I have room for a fan since I let EHOH go). I think with the code complexity this layout makes sense but I won’t really know until I get to play it for a while. I did order one but it does feel like they may be at either a price or units produced tipping point with the LEs. They ramped that number up fast during Covid but 1000 units @13k now with a soft resale market is all too much.

Moving into that new facility they’re gonna be pumping out so many machines the supply is going to be so high. The demand is going to be so low in comparison. Simple economics. This is going to be fascinating. The housing and car market will probably be similar.

Great timing on this video. Absolutely agree on Marvel fatigue, and the price point. Would be nice if Stern would revisit pricing, and perhaps with other viable options out there for (CGC, Spooky, ect) folks maybe this will indeed move the dial for pricing moving forward. On the flip side, if Venom doesn’t do well overall moving on to the next machine feels more realistic in the end I suppose. We shall see. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The Pro should feel like the core game! Premium should be a pro with som extra +

The theme leave’s something to be desired. Godzilla sure, Venom not so much.

I didn't buy it for the same reason I haven't purchased a NiB game since 2020. Price. Should I say it again? Price.