Don't know if I would call it a beta but it doesn't have replayability past 200 hours currently imo. Not enough maps, not enough ways to make your city unique.

This game is past beta, but I'd call it an early release at full release prices.

It’s what Sims 4 did to Sims 3. A prettier sandbox with more art tools but meaningless in-game decisions, no challenge; a simulation not a game.

I agree on the graphics. CS2 doesn't have a style, leaning into realism. The problem with realism is it's supposed to look good and the bar goes up constantly. If it leaned into more of a stylistic approach (stuff like two point hospital or something) it doesn't need to reflect the most advanced graphics in the world

You summed this up beautifully. Do you have any objections if this comment is read and discussion in the next CS: Comment Section Podcast Video. And I read your 6 reasons and I struggled to rank them in severity - they are all as bad as each other. Sadly, I feel that the City Painters will be first to getting a CS2 that benefits them first, then CS management players.

As for the 6th point and the answers we are all waiting for: unfortunately, I think those answers will come when the opened positions at CO (Senior Gameplay Programmer, Senior Platform Support Engineer & Senior Technical Artist) will be finally covered, if ever. So my hope bar is now set on the minimum level and on its way to vanish.

@@cityplannermismanages No I have no objection at all. It would be a great pleasure that my comment will be discussed. I can’t wait for this podcast episode to be out !

100% this

Exactly. I sandbox and support some asset creators. Without workshop assets, this is terrible.

I know. I had a fun 8 hours or so, and built out this pretty cool city, and then kinda ran out of things to build.

@@tmg7476Watch they will have a "select few" asset creators release things, but not allow the public to make whatever they want. No thanks.

My reason for not returning? I never bought it in the first place and never will.

Sounds better than a CO Thirst-Trap Video!

Thank you for the laughs. Awesome!

Honestly sounds more interesting than this "sequel" is, not gonna lie.

😂🤣😂

gotem

I forgot she said that. Very interesting. I bet she forgot she said this too - because CHAT GPT properly wrote it for her.

Technically it's not a paid expansion but a deluxe edition upgrade....... Yeah that annoys me just as much...

Well that was out of their hands, they would have faced lawsuits because people paid for that DLC already. On the other hand they could have made it a proper DLC rather than making a couple paper dolls and calling them barbies.

Marina is very unlikeable,

Sad thing is, console players would be quite happy with it the state it is in.. But it struggles on most PCs so not sure that is even doable

You should definitely be an accountant - $4M per year revenue is definitely not enough to sustain a gaming company. Yes COVID was a huge help for CS1, and you're right, CS1 was decently strong even before COVID - covid just kinda made CS1 go viral.

It still sucks. And you take it from me, I'll tell you when it no longer doesn't,bc my UNI COURSE MASTERS will kick back up,bc I use CS2 for actual city planning again.

if you have less than 2 hours you can refund it on steam

You let other people decide what you like?

I wouldn't rely on youtubers. So many of them just create rage bait videos these days for views. There have been a handful of games trashed on youtube that I've actually enjoyed. Including this one. Its not CS1 good yet, but I've managed to get 100+ hrs into it regardless.

DLC/Mods/Patch was the big drawcard to win people back, only the asset editor and loads of assets is the next big drawcard, will see how the audience goes with this... hopefully enough. For me - I think CS2 is winning, when I can download a WALMART from PDX Mods and put them in game. It is a small thing, but something indicative of showing the game is getting momentum.

They definitely need to release some free assets or AT LEAST let the community make and release assets. It’s just a drag to play with one variant of a 4x6 house. Even the old Sears catalog had a better selection of houses.

They should GIVE CS2 to every owner of CS at this stage of the game. Consider it a lost leader, let everyone create mods and assets, and move forward in the hopes that the next DLC will do better. Otherwise it is just a bed that has been *you know what* in...

Play CS1 with mods and assets trust me. Over 300,000 assets to make the city of your dreams.

You can build pedestrian paths. It's actually one of the best ways to simulate the parks dlc from the first game. The stupid part is this tool it's located under terraforming which always leads to me awkwardly looking for it under roads first

​@@Secretsofsociety Yes, but try making an overpass, it takes a lot of space, and looks weirdly unrealistic for your city if you have to make a lot of them. Thanks to Anarchy Mod I am able to shotern the steep or implement my own creativity, but it still looks ugly and pedestrians ignore it. There should be a simple pedestrian overpass snd an underpass structure that we can plop over a crosswalk or anywhere we like over a road.

@@fssim6825 Yep, already doing that

@@Sou-no7xt True. Same with the first game though.... I just want sim city 5 at this point.... Never really thought skylines was a worthy successor. Not saying it wasn't good and I didn't play about 1000 hours but just not the same level of detail outside of traffic management though...

It didn't work well in CS1 either. So that's not really all that surprising. In CS1 my biggest issue was always traffic. No matter how hard I tried. I had to use a lot of mods to help improve it.

What's this about People's assets that weren't included? Would love to know more to investigate - is this Asset Content Creators (like from Steam) that got shafted.

I'll give you a like for what I'm assuming is a TNG reference.

I have AMD and it feels like my desktop is trying to take off, even in the main menu - no other game I have does this.

@@cityplannermismanages - I have a RTX3070, 64Gb RAM, Intel i9-11900K on a Gigabyte MBoard. I get 50FPS minimum in-game. Not everyone can afford these specs. Additionally, though, the lack of assets, and missing launch content, the editor is clearly unfinished, does give the impression that in reality, this is an "early access" game right now, and I am ok with that, especially if they admitted it. I think all in good time this will again be a great game. For me, being addicted :-) , I will plod along while it all comes together. A short-term game changer right now would be an asset editor, so the creators can give us a real detailing option, and a fix to the economy and population algorithms, through the engine, or mods.

Agreed. I have an RTX4090 and 13900kf with 96GB of RAM, and I am able to run the game fine. I had no idea there is THAT much of a difference between my GPU and others though

Hi Jordan, I think the issue with the DLC is that Mariina in Nov WoTW said "we will not release any paid DLC until the game is fixed" and they did. This pissed off so many players, but you are right, it would be PDX forcing CO into a corner. The issues are not so much with the game (yes, there's issues), it seems to be that we can all openly see the FIGHTING between CO and PDX - time for CO to cut ties somehow with PDX if they can. PDX did release the lamplighter gaming company from their contract last year, so I wonder if CO can get away from PDX and shop around for someone better.

@@cityplannermismanages I would put money on it that the decision to release the DLC wasn't Mariina's either, but also Paradox. I think you're forgetting the backlash from people who preordered and wanted their DLC. Their hands were tied. I remember when that announcement came out and thought it was a great thing to say they aren't releasing DLC until they fix the issues, and honestly I'd say they still have held up to that commitment as I also knew they had limited time to release the content people paid for. The "DLC" was already purchased and there very likely would have been a lawsuit had they not released the content that those people bought. I don't think CO is in the wrong here. I highly doubt Paradox would release CO from their contract. That's just wishful thinking.

Me too, my PC is good. I'm sick of the noise too, it makes me scared, and with Australian heat some days over 40 degrees, I can't play CS2 because I can't cool the PC properly or the room.

Yes, not just a lot of people felt the same, 93% of people felt the same. But everything you said is accurate and exactly how players feel - I wonder if they have a PR company brought in trying to fix this all.

never ever preorder!!! ur practically paying for thin air. What u preorder a house and it dosent even have a roof?

@@Infernal_Elf Then you have them finish what you paid for or get your money back? Lmao

Let's hope! I think the shift will be when we see a steady player daily average of 20k. I mean Euro Truck Sim has 25k active daily players, CS2 should get that too.

Only once modders finish the game for them for free. Anything added to paradox mods becomes company property after all.

Mocking is definitely the right word to use. Wonder what MOCKING is in Finnish. hmmm, it is Pilkkaaminen.

I'm of the belief that CS2 will not work on a XBox Series S - it has to be the X version. You might wanna check this.

if you have access to steam WS you can ignore a lot of the DLCs and get mods and assets there to create a city set in any time or place you can think of

Sounds like a good plan. News update: the mods have helped CS2 attain a +3% increase in players this April so far.

I think CS2 needs some time yet, before I'd advise anyone to spend money on it.

Bingo. Everyone can say 'oh CO screwed up' and 'oh CO are scum' all they like, but at the end of the day developers don't have the final say with games. Publishers do. That's just fact, and this is EXACTLY what would have happened. Paradox cornered CO against a wall so to speak and forced them to release CS2 in the state it was in. The exact same thing happened with Cyberpunk 2077. And I bet you any money you like, CO called out Paradox in a recent conference call for it. The same as what CDPR did with their publishers with Cyberpunk.

let's hope so... but 3 months ago, players were saying.. when Mods come.. CS2 will be good.... and now that mods are here, CS2 numbers are still falling. Do you think its a perfect storm, that it requires vast array of mods, assets and performance for players to return?

@@cityplannermismanages There are quite a few problems with Cities Skylines 2 now, but the biggest one is simple. People often want to build cities inspired by real world locations, and if they run into issues due to lack of assets that can be a disappointment. This is why I feel the support for asset mods would be very important step in the right direction. But the support for using asset mods is valuable only if there are mod creators. As the game have lost a lot of players, probably it lost a lot of modders who created mods for a lot of games. Lack of support for asset mods, and previously lack of support for mods also reduced the number of modders active, and the potential number of good mods. Releasing the modding support later is a partial fix to this issue at best. But the 2nd biggest issue is about trust, and it is much harder to fix that issue. If it would be the first huge disappointment from Colossal Order / Paradox, I would be happy to return. Developers can deserve a 2nd chance. Sadly, I remember Cities in Motion 2, so it is about a third chance, when the developers have reacted to the criticism with gaslighting. The current asset pack is much criticised and looks bad value even if we treat it as just an unimportant DLC, just like the radio ones, which were good mostly to support the developer and long-term sustainability of the game. If we see how CO has to restore trust they have lost, and it would be important to offer enough assets to keep us entertained as asset mods are still delayed? The low value Beach Properties pack feels like an insult. After this if they want more trust, if they want us to consider buying future DLCs that is like asking for a 4th chance... Also, they wasted a good chance to restore some trust. Luckily for CO only a small part of playerbase was around at the time of Cities in Motion 2, and for some it is about one bad release and can be somewhat patient even after the current DLC debacle and the delays. This issue is getting worse. Their 3rd issue is something they can't fix and we don't want to see fixed. Cities: Skylines was released the competition was very weak. Right now, there are many good city builders. When we can make jokes about how we can build a better American beachfront city in Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic, than in Cities Skylines 2, we are hyped about Manor Lords, we see more creators picking up OSTRIV, etc. that is a fundamentally different market. People who waited for Cities Skylines 2, was all hyped about it, was disappointed, left the game, and started to play any other good city builder might return only when they are tired with their new favorite game. Yes, some of these games are more niche games, and Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic is not only an excellent city builder but a game that can be very hard at higher difficulties, but if you would try it and enjoy it, and your build would lead to a long season on KZfaq, you wouldn't return to another game because some of the problems were fixed. People who left because of the issues with Cities Skylines 2, might have found their new favorite games, and to go back to Cities Skylines 2, they would have to spend far less time with their new favorite game. The 4th biggest problem is simple: Fixing the game would cost time and money. The low value of the current DLCs means they aren't "must have" stuff, so many people won't buy them. Without a stable income it is harder to support the game, create DLCs for a smaller market, use any marketing budget to attract modders and new players... A better value DLC would create more income and would have restored some trust. Right now, it looks impossible to use crowdsourcing for funding any DLC, expansion, game, etc. and I am not sure if many investors would want to invest in the IP.

Simulation speed isn't dependent on your GPU

you forget the dev mode,you can do a lot with it together with the the mods,most important mods are already available.to many mods made your computer slower.

Great summation. Which are? I like both, depending on the city or the reason I'm building the city. I think it's more important to get the economy and simulation fixed first, wdyt?

Yes, the color swaps were another FU from CO. Did they not think we would notice... but players voted with their keyboard clicks, and now CO can have the title of WORST PRODUCT ON STEAM EVER...

That population problem sounds super frustrating. I'm assuming that's everybody's game, and trains getting gridlocked, still can't believe that hasn't been fixed

@@cityplannermismanages See, the real frustrating thing is it might be a mod doing the population problem. But I just don't know for the above reasons I gave. And the mods that affect population or the work areas, if they install at all, they seem to make my population plummet. And still with all this, I make so much money none of that matters financially. Which I thought they said they at least partially fixed? As to the trains, there dosn't seem to be a reason to build any mass transit at all because the city does just fine with out any of it.

Or how about the KZfaqrs that hyped it up, only to no longer play it and now call it garbage or not good enough. You wanna know something interesting. Not a single KZfaqr from that early access program speaks to me! Not in comments or on Discord! They avoid me like I'm some leper. I've always wondered why! One or two, I know why! But 99%! I will play CS2 when I feel it offers something - right now, it offers nothing - and even me, I got caught in the hype of their videos and conversations and pre-ordered the ultimate. I should have waited and purchased it on G2A for $15.

Hear! Hear!

​@@cityplannermismanageswhen they came out with the first gameplay video after the first trailer made the game look like we were getting an ultra realistic looking game I put out a video, pointing out how ugly it was going to be compared to what they first showed us, just saying I hope they prove me wrong, well more than 6 months later they still have not

Yes, but I think that looking mod numbers, mixed with Steam numbers is a better way, albeit not perfect way, to get some indication of engagement. And yes, you're right, it will be more difficult to see engagement using Mod numbers down the track, as players could have the mod subscribed but havent played, but I thought it was good for a snapshot right now of who was engaged as Mods are so fresh. We will never truly get numbers from PDX or CO, bc they would be embarrassing. CO and PDX were quite happy to big-note themselves, and rightfully so, when CS1 hit 12M copies sold with big fan-fare, bc it was an amazing achievement - but they have said nothing about the numbers for CS2.

@@cityplannermismanages I agree I wasn’t trying to discount your effort or findings, I appreciate them just saying it’s just impossible to tell. I think you are right a very large group have checked out and rightfully so.

lol, the metro is forced either underground or elevated. But there are no elevated metro station. and you cant run the metro ground level because you cannot cross roads on ground level. So you either have to build entirely underground. Or build a sort of rollercoaster going from elevated to ground level. i created a bug report for it and they just say thats intended. why cant we just build a metro/road crossing? oh yah. To make it worse.... the metro yard is at ground level... wich require roads :P and i have WAY more stuff like that

Interesting. So CS2 is going down the path more for detailers than simulation and management players. CO did say asset animations will return. Fingers crossed

@cityplannermismanages CO wanted it to down a simulation path since it seems like they didnt even have props in their plan but the mods will make it good for detailing. There is definitely a lot of simulation going on and slowing the game down but I don't feel like any of it does anything to make it fun or just doesnt work yet. It doesn't matter what you do. There is basically unlimited money, if you dont build services they just arrive from somewhere, traffic ai seems even worse. Hopefully CO can figure it out or mods can fix the simulation.

Dont get me wrong, they've added dlss and some optimizations but its nowhere near enough yet

I don’t think there’s no fixing this game

For sure, they did.

Yeah they made it seem like the game was complete yet when it came out it was the most broken game ever

Yes, boredom right now is the key problem with the game, but in fact there is something inherently wrong w CS2, and I've said it in the past, but people have ignored me, and that the game is "unsure of itself" doesn't have a vibe, it's lifeless, it's dreary and depressing to build in for hours, the scale is off and that jars our internal spatial awareness, people will soon see... bc right now, DLC, patches, performance and even awesome mods is doing nothing to get players back in droves. I can't spend more than 2 hours in CS2 without getting bored, feeling depressed and a little seasick.

Love your train analogies about it all. CS1 modded is almost perfection.

Yeah, guessing the country pack will drop, and they are saving it for the public release of Asset Editor and downloadable assets on PDX

I'll check this out, thanks

Wow, your job is amazing. What country do you build railways in

@@cityplannermismanages mostly in Austria, but we got a lot of projects in Germany too, a little in Hungary and Switzerland as well. We do a lot planning of cable/track layouts, though I mostly do specification and integration of safety critical systems like interlockings and radio block controlers. It's an interesting field to work in.

I'm glad you're enjoying. People DO need to play it, so PDX don't give up on it, giving CO more money to fix it.

Me too. CS1 is my first love. Never played Sim City

Any good?