Everybody should be allowed to have his own opinion 😂 Even Dave

​@@georgelien Well then he should present it as an opinion, not as fact!

🥹🥹🥹

Mine too, but not because of this video, although it is a good one.

There was a question?

He's the only one not drinking the Kool-Aid they serve there.

I don't think Dave allows his personalities to have a career if they leave...I meam, we've never heard from Hogan again.

@@Amanda-ws5ty that's a whole separate issue with different circumstances

Not right at all. If you withdrawal 4%. It will never run out if you are getting 8-12% every year

As much as Dave likes to say real estate investors 'don't factor in risk', his 8% withdrawal rate seems to also not factor in risk of market downturns. That's where the more safe 4% withdrawal rate comes in. Sure, the market may average 10% in the long run, but your retirement isn't that long. One or two big recessions during your retirement will leave you broke with an 8% withdrawal rate.

He should also apologize to his audience.

Dave talks about apologizing to 2 people in his book Entreleadership@@MikeBean

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!

What did Dave do?

@@annetraut8247did you get an update ?

The problem with that honest math calculator is there is not return on that money. Its basically calculated like a savings account which seems wrong. If i had $1m im not withdrawing it from a savings, im moving to an index fund that matches the s&p so my money will continue to grow even as i withdraw.

​@@crashtestdummy1972nobody is suggesting the funds not be invested... the math shows the 4% rule of thumb wouldn't work with no market returns. The rule of thumb is based on a 7% average gross return.

@@crashtestdummy1972 That is incorrect. At the bottom of the page they give you all of the assumptions used: "10,000 trial Monte Carlo simulation at each withdrawal rate. 70/30 stock/bond allocation with monthly compounding. Fat-tailed levy process for sampling equity performance. Fraction shown corresponds with median simulation result. Analysis uses default forward-looking capital market expectations programmed into the Honest Math portfolio simulator. Assumes 75% of the portfolio is subject to income taxes upon withdrawal at an effective rate of 20%."

@@crashtestdummy1972 It does take into account returns. It’s the return volatility that makes for lower withdrawals.

@@crashtestdummy1972 the "Honest Math" money is invested. The thing is that some years the market is up and some years it's down. Dave's abbreviated assumptions say the market always goes up 12%. It's true it averages 11-12%, but there's years it does -10% and other years it's 20%. When you take from the account on down years, your account has a hard time recovering. Many simulations run with real historic returns show that the accounts often don't truly recover. 4% is a safe withdrawal rate for 30 years. Safe means there's a very low chance you'll be broke in 30 years, but there were still some bad years that even that low % still had the invested accounts drop to 0 within 30 years. TLDR.. The market is not a guarantee and not every year is the average year.

Agreed! I don’t care about historical figures … i KNOW that I’ve basically gained net zero in the last 3-4 years both in my 401k and my investment accounts … luckily I’m in my 40s and still working and saving/investing … my parents are biting their nails everyday however!

This is the best way to approach it. Most of the people I know who view job as a means to make money and provide for themselves and the future are doing just fine. The ones who chased the "dream job" they love to do are mostly broke and struggling to get by because for most of us, what we'd love to do doesn't pay jack squat, lol.

So you do nothing of value until you start starving that’s really smart

This is how I was raised. Your job is not supposed to make you happy, it's supposed to make you *money.* Not expecting work to be this fountain of joy actually made me happier than my coworkers. I did FIRE and retired in my 40s after working somewhere for 20 years.

I'm kinda the same. But you do have to find something to fill the void once you quit working. That is essential.

That's what people that keep trying to tell you work is not the problem not get. At the end of the day most people want to own their time. Even if you love your job I'm sure most people don't love the things that come with it such as long commutes, having to plan your life around your job, limited free time etc. Most of the billionaires who "work" wouldn't work for someone else even doing something they love to do because no one wants to answer to someone else if they don't have to at the end of the day.

Completely agree ❤

That’s the key thing that the Ramsey Solutions Team & a lot of CEOs can’t figure out or refuse to believe. It’s really about being able to do what you want when you want & not having the stress about being able to pay bills & feeding yourself & your family at the same time.

That's exactly why I am pursuing FIRE. I want options

I agree 100%. I have no interest in not working. I just want to be able to coast fire.

Yep. Most studies I've seen suggest more than 50% of workers hate their job. So not needing to work for a living and not needing to depend on a job is great.

Completely agree here. Having options is what I want, not to stop working. Being aggressive with saving and cutting expenses while hustling to build wealth faster isn’t a bad thing. I’d love to hear how this is supposedly bad….but they kind of just get set in a mindset and don’t seem to change once they made their initial opinion

I feel like that at 30 after losing my job during the pandemic. I’ve cobbled together several part time streams of income after trying to get a full time job for so long. I swear we are in a REAL recession between inflation and the job market. The stock market has nothing to do with how well most people can make ends meet, only on those living off investments (mostly retirement age and wealthy).

He didn't lose his mind on this video. The guy that provoked Dave to lose his mind did it on purpose. He even recorded it and has his own youtube channel to show it. I am not looking him up again.

I 💯 % agree it is beautiful being financially Independent!🎉🎉😊. More folks need to go for it!

What does your wife do, and why wouldn’t you work an extra few years so she could retire earlier. Is her job part of the fostering process and helps keep her close to the cause.

@@chaselesser3191 he said they save 100% of her income so she seems to be working because she wants to.

What was your current job before retiring and how much did you retire with?

Sometimes we like our work - like I’m very creative and want to work on creative projects whereas my husband wants to retire early and volunteer his time and enjoy life (he’s T1 diabetic). I don’t want to stop writing books and music until I die.

Op, you are awesome. Fostering kids I would do but my wife will refused

Ditto

Caleb's die on the Walmart floor analogy is perfect to get it through peoples heads how important saving is.

My husband is also T1 and he doesn’t have a strong calling for work… he wants to RE and volunteer part time in the community. Whereas I’ll work til I’m dead but on things I’m passionate about as a creative person like writing and music. FIRE will allow us to enjoy life while we can together. There’s nothing wrong with that!

maybe this is a hot take... but any age that starts with 50 isn't "early retirement". Hell, where I work I reach my full retirement at 50.

I recommend TheMoneyGuy. It's another group that offers solid advice on KZfaq and podcasts. I'm just a fan of theirs, not associated in any way. I hope you like them.

Look up dividend aristocrats. Pick six to ten from that list. Those companies have a track record of 25+ years of paying dividends. Also, its advisable you work with a financial advisor to help set up a well-structured portfolio.

I agree. Based on personal experience working with a financįal advlsor, I currently have $800k in a well-diversified portfolìo that has experienced exponential growth from when i started. It's not only about having money to invest in stõcks, but you also need to be knowledgeable, persistent, and have strong hands to back it up.

Your advisor must be excellent. How can I get in touch with them? I'm worried about the decline in my retirement portfolio and could really use some guidance.

I'm cautious about giving specific recommendations as everyone's situation varies. Consider independent financial advisors like "Melissa Elise Robinson" I've worked with her for 9 years and highly recommend her. Check if she meets your criteria.

Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up immediately. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her.

Dave was an asshole for throwing George under the bus.

@@mysticaltyger2009 am I right to assume Dave never apologized?

@@AnimatedIdiotGuide not publically.

Everyone needs a different stream of income , unfortunately having a job doesn't mean security due to the high rate of tax , one needs to move ahead their expectation, I would recommend refraining from investing in stocks for now. Instead, it would be prudent to consider retaining a portion of your assets in gold. Alternatively, seeking advice from a financial advisor could provide valuable guidance in this matter.

I'll recommend you create a diversification strategy because building a good financial-portfolio has been more complex since covid. Recently my colleague advised me to hire an advisor, surprisingly I have accrued over $210K under the guidance of my coach during this crash. She figured out Defensive strategies to protect my portfolio and make profit from this roller coaster market.

Mind if I ask you to recommend this particular coach you using their service?

My advisor is Stacie Lynn Winson, a renowned figure in her line of work. I recommend researching her credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.

I located her, sent her an email, and scheduled a call; hopefully, she will reply because I want to start the new year off financially strong.

I'm happy for you.

Yeah. I just don't want a boss to be able to fire me and screw up my future.

$1.2M saved?

@@IrisP989 saved and invested

You are absolutely crushing it and are far ahead of people your age! Do you own your own home yet or is the 1.2 million also including the value of your home? If you don't own a home, I would work on that next and try to get it paid off in 15 years. If you are including the value of your home, then you wouldn't have enough to retire anyway. One of the biggest issues retiring prior to age 59 1/2 is not being able to pull money from your retirement accounts unless you set up a Roth conversion ladder where each conversion needs to sit in the account for 5 full years before you can touch it without penalty.

How much do you make and are you married? (including spouse assets in that number?) If you've done that on your own, that's incredible. My wife and I are at a similar number but that's both of us combined

At best I was making $28k-39k from mid-20's thru mid-40's. Same as you, cheap house/duplex, reasonable price hobby, few vacations, but I'm good. Things change and we opened up a business, but I still live under the "$35k" mentality I've always survived under. I will have a very nice retirement.

Props to you and those that can do it, but for me, there has to be balance and not enjoying anything in life now for the sake of saving every last penny doesn't seem appealing to me at all. Technically anything that brings enjoyment in life beyond necessities can easily be thrown in the "stupid stuff" category, so you have to define that cut-off somewhere.

@panzer_TZ yeah that's why I threw in my edit. I just live on my income from a decade ago and chill. And then save the raises. My goal is to reach fi at like 40 and then just donate my salary to charity for a decade.

Can I ask ballpark how much do you make and what city you're in?

That is how I feel also. Our salary is high and we saved and invested 50% plus of our income. So the reasoning is instead of working 40 years, we only really need to work 20 years. Now that 23 years of working has passed....hmmm....hahaha.. My Barista FIRE situation isn't too bad to be honest.

@rayzee0285 I make about 100k but I was on pace to do it way over in orange County california since i kept my rent to 550 in southern california in 2017 (I lived on cheaper than I do now) and I live in the acela corridor now. I just live on the same 1500 biweekly salary I made out of college a decade ago. My lifestyle inflation all stayed under that number.

He did remove the article that I mentioned on the call though. Dave's team called me back, and asked for the name of this video. I told them, and they said that George was just talking about FIRE, but he doesn't give an alternative to the 4% there within. I told them that he actually claims it isn't conservative enough per honest math. They just thanked me and asked to call back if I needed help with anything else.

@@hopefilledfinancial That's such a crap answer from the Ramsey team because even the part where he's talking about the 4% leaving only 0.03x of your money is based on a 30 year normal retirement timeline and not even related to fire other than 4% is not enough for 30+ years of retirement.

@@whasian2007 Exactly! I explain as much on my reaction/review of the call. But, this may be why Dave didn't have this video taken down. He may have taken the word of his team that it just talks about what FIRE is. I like this video. I really do, and I would hate to see it then down. It may note help that it is explained here in the comments, but Dave isn't reading my comments.

The article that was mentioned got taken down. It makes me a bit sad. I like this video and the article.

@@hopefilledfinancial that's very unfortunate. I was hoping that Dave would do right by George. I hope there's an apology the next time he's on air.

I came here looking for this.

The caller had the wrong context? He called asking about the 4% rule and dave blew up. That's all the context needed to know dave was in the wrong.

I'm sure they are working on their business and not for someone else. They get to control theiri time and effort.

Exactly! I reacted to a clip where Dave, with George, were discussing how financial lemmings say 4% is safe but 5% is crippling. Dave called that BS and went on with his 8% to 10% numbers and made fun of the advisors who roll with conservative SWRs. IN THIS VIDEO, the 5% SWR looks super risky compared to 4%. That is the exact point I make in my show, and I am excited to see Dave change his mind soon.

Dave talks about 12% actually.

I also noticed this, Dave is on record saying 8-10% is fine for growth mutual funds. I agree with many Ramsey principles in general so I'm close to diet Dave or Dave light, but they always present their own solutions with 10-12% average returns and 8-10% withdrawal, then use 4% for any other plan they do not agree with which changes numbers drastically.

@@35goingon90 I bet, we can get Dave to change his mind with love, logic, and evidence. It is my current mission to see all of Ramsey Solutions become consistent on this front.

8-12% is on return, not safe withdrawal. They seem similar but are quite different. Especially when retiring young there is an increased volatility/risk. Which means the two numbers will be even more different than other normal retirement circumstances.

As George said ^^ YOU GO WITH YOU You need a new career environment or a new career path, not the FIRE movement

​@@alexisballard1459naw. Sometimes just NOT needing to work is what works best.

​@@MikeyPaperexactly, I'd love my job and career better with some FU money, someone gets aggressive or a ton of projects I don't like get piled up too high and I can take time replacing them or go on a long vacation and come back

Yah for me I like FI as I want to work at my business and have a flexible schedule whereas my husband likes the RE and wants to volunteer in the community which he obvi wouldn’t get paid for. There’s nothing wrong with the work we want to do just that income on it is unknown. There is risk involved, so financial security bridges that gap to live your calling.

Happy for a few months until retirement gets into a routine of watching videos all day. A lot of time to fill from 34 on. Retiring early should be about running into the next productive chapter in life. Not running from working.

@stevenporter863 I was injured for a 3 month period. Out of work and paid at 100%. I had the greatest time! My kids are young and watching them play at the park, walking with them, being part of recreational activities, relaxing and napping was amazing. Some like to work, I absolutely hate every second of it. It's not that I don't appreciate my pay and benefits, I'd rather be at home and doing whatever I want, whenever I want. It's just how I function. I'll never like working and retiring early is something I strive for!

@@Draiger_ Talking in general, not necessarily about your special circumstance.

@stevenporter863 completely understand. I just keep hearing these personalities talk about "don't retire early, you have an act 2". Not everyone wants an act 2 or even act 1. People should do whatever makes them happiest!

you're still expect to retire 6 years early. ;)

Of course. Once you have enough money you can do anything you want.

True that 😂😂

George wouldn’t understand that

Yes! Nurses work so hard!! Take care of yourself first!!

it's somewhere deep in the red for the average person.

52 is my goal. My aunt and uncle retired to a beach house around that point and said it was the best decision they ever made. They got nothing jobs at the beach and just chilled. They encouraged me to aim for thst too. You're still young enough to enjoy life without needing to overly sacrifice.

@@e22ddie46 My goal is 45, but I'm expecting to miss and land somewhere around 50.

​​​@@emoney1231Saving only 30% and retiring at 50...like your optimism. Afraid inflation Cost are going to push back many peoples retirement.

@@markg999 Inflation comes in waves. Over the past 5 years, the S&P500 is up 8.2% per year adjusted for inflation, so it shouldn't have killed anyone's retirement plans yet. Feel free to predict doom on the future, but I won't be doing that.

This is my goal too!

I want to own a small farm and live with a peace of mind, and have pile of cash being stash in the middle of the farm. 😂

Dave is a boomer preaching personal finance advice like it’s still 1986

Yah my husband wants to “retire” so he can volunteer for good causes and enjoy life. Ain’t nothing wrong with that.

Only shitty bosses can't admit when they are wrong. All the math says 8% has a high likelihood of failure.

@@thehomeless_trucker Agreed. Dave needs to get a ration of shit for being such an asshole.

Agreed. Glad to see someone else actually watched the video to compare. Daves caller from Nov 2nd apparently did take this 3% draw out of context and missed George's whole point. Which was to prove how this fire movement has its own flaws and is unrealistic. Dave went a little overboard but George is in total agreement with Dave in the end.

I am excited 😊 my life has totally changed. I have been benefiting $10,250 from my $4,000 investment every 14days

I invested with Jason, i make about a 30,000USD every month.

I heard a lot of investing with Mr Jason Appel and how good he is, please how safe are the profit?

I trade with him, The profit are secured and over a 100% return on investment directly sent to your wallet.

I've seen a lot of recommendation about Mr Jason Appel, Please can I have his info? I want to invest 1,000usd with him.

One of my favorite bands!

True, It has never been easier to understand how to build your money after retirement than it is right now with the inflation, when you may study and experience a completely variegated market passively by employing a successful portfolio-advisor. The impacts of the U.S. dollar's gain or fall on investments, in my opinion, are complex.

Even if you’re not skilled, it is still possible to hire one. I was a project manager and my personal portfolio of approximately $850k of my retirement pension took a big hit in April due to the crash. I quickly got in touch with a financial-planner that devised a defensive strategy to protect my funds and make profit from my portfolio this red season. I’ve made over $250k since then.

that's impressive!, I could really use the expertise of this advisors , my portfolio has been down bad....who’s the person guiding you.

Monica Amanda McClure ’is the advisor that guides me. She’s a verified coach and she helped me see that returns can be made in both bull and bear markets. She covers things like investing, insurance, making sure retirement is well funded and looking at ways to have a volatility buffer for investment risk, look - her up

This was helpful. Thank you. I checked her website out. I have sent her an email, and I hope she gets back to me soon.

There's a reason why pensions didn't last very long... they can't be invested in equities, so the returns possible only equal average inflation.

Yah he says extremes aren’t good but the Ramsey plan is more extreme than other personal finance advice. Especially the only have $1000 while paying off debt. From experience, we’ve had emergencies that are more than $1000 so this is very risky if you’re avoiding more debt. But Ramsey isn’t a big fan of individual empowerment when that means a radical change in how people treat each other - corporate America shifting. Consider also Ramsey is very against bankruptcy for most people. I just completed bankruptcy for 2 credit cards and an auto loan and it’s one of the best decisions we’ve made! We bought a house last year which is less than our previous rent which is also a no no on the Dave plan while getting out of debt, but that’s also one of the best decisions we’ve ever made! Personal finance is just that… personal. He chose arbitrary rules within Biblical principles that the Bible (in its wisdom passages) is not so strict on. It’s very extreme. The getting off of debt intensity is understandable when you’re paying off… but life is also a balance of things.

They have always seen FI as competition and was actually kicking people off their Facebook pages for talking about specifically ChooseFI.... they want to make content off its back, but they truly do hate the movement even though the baby steps are a great stepping stone for the FI movement. Also, most today believe in FI, and not so heavy on the RE... but the Ramsey team will always call it FIRE instead of FI, because FI takes away their biggest gripe.... Retiring early..