Back In The Day, we'd keep raiding after getting BiS because we enjoyed raiding with our friends and wanted to help them gear up too. Or we started doing more challenges within the raid for achievements. Or we didn't even get BiS before the next raid tier was released.

The player base ruined this game. Demanding logs for puggable bosses... its like fuck it.

Why we are taking the opinion of a person that does not even play the game and he only spends time dissing people and talking about drama?. Every time a person reminded him that his take is absurd or simplicistic he just say "I have played 30 YEARS IN WOW! I KNOW" yeah sure, because he is the only one that did? I play SoD and I started playing long time ago in vanilla and I have a totally different opinion. Stop being polarizing, Asmon was a player that knows some things in the game and after Cata always had a different experience from the others because of him being a streamer.

I quit sod when economy was completely destroyed in phase 3 by blizzard being a dumbass.

People complained about how few tanks and healers were around, blizz makes lock, rogue tanks and adds a mage healer... now some are complaining about having rogue tanks and mage healers.

45:10 talking about taking time. I can remember spending 8 hours in MC back in vanilla trying to figure that shit out. Me and 39 other people. We did that several times. I can’t imagine doing that now.

Remember when people just had fun with things

Man if only they did what Turtlewow did with their servers, new quests in all zones, new dungeons, new raids, new leveling zones, new race/class combos, new profession recipes, hundreds of new gear items and making sure all the new content make sense Lore-wise. They basically a "Classic Era continued" kinda server. It's brilliant. Low-key Blizzard should hire their staff and make this come true.

i stopped playing sod cause of the incursions, saw my guildies were making 1k-5k gold the first 30 minutes they were released then they hotfixed it. completely ruined the economy

The worst thing that ever happened to WoW was it becoming super serious through the years. Back in the day if you wanted to be hardcore you joined that type of guild. These days even random groups act like you have to have this gear score and this type of experience....For the casual it has killed the enjoyment of having fun with people around the world and connecting. Having to be a good player to get gear is just wrong, it should always be a roll system to make it fair to everyone who is involved. I don't care if the tank or the healer are better than the others....the worst player in the group is just as important as you wouldn't be raiding otherwise! It is a computer game...no one else's time is more important than anyone else's!

Loved this convo, and the differing opinions from both of these guys was incredibly insightful. THIS is the great kind of reaction content! Anyway one thought about Raid ID vs Boss ID. I think a slight compromise between the two is the best option. Ultimately, keep Raid ID, however you can still enter other raid IDs and help out while just not being eligible for loot. The way this would work would be when you enter a raid and are NOT saved to a raid ID, a dialogue window pops up and asks if you want to save to the raid, making you eligible for loot, but locked for the rest of the week. If you decline this window you can stay and just not get loot. When you're SAVED and you enter another raid ID, a window pops up and lets you know that you are saved to a different ID and can't get loot. This keeps the "stick it out together" social contract that classic is famous for while still letting friends play together. Win Win imho. Only real downside I can think of off the top of my head is potential issues with "boost selling".

Yeah, on difficulty in WoW, its like the Overjustification effect studies, if you don't know they'd basically bring children into a room and one group would be rewarded for each picture they drew while the other group was just told that they could draw. The study found that providing rewards would keep the kids drawing longer, but as soon as the rewards stopped they would stop drawing. Retail is designed to give rewards for drawing pictures (doing content) that is their loot philosophy, their designers have said so. Classic is designed to give you all the paper & crayons they can and let you draw the pictures as long as you'd like, the rewards are there but they aren't the purpose of the game

14:32 100% this. NO SOUL on Earth thinks "tank" whenever they hear the word "Rogue". I bet most of them would usually think of these words instead: - Assassin - Ninja - Thief - Pirate(?) - Outlaws - Criminals - Cutthroats - Shadow - Poisons - Stealth - Charlatans ... you know? "Assholes" who never care about fighting dirty as long as long as they win, they always do things "from the shadow" or "from behind" with "dirty tricks"... The word "tank" has NOTHING to do with Rogues imo. What's next? Healer Warrior? From these Gigachad berserkers/weapons masters who'd always be in the front-lines, you somehow turn them into "healing b*tches"? How would that make sense?

Except blizzard doesn’t perma ban the buyers so it never fixes the problem?

GDKP keeps high end players running groups = more groups = more players playing since they're able to raid and get loot. GDKP is big.

asmon filled with l takes recently

Blizzard doesn’t ban gold buyers. If they do, they might catch a 3 Day and MAYBE lose the gold they bought if they haven’t already invested it. Banning GDKP was a lazy way to lessen gold buying, which is still running rampant regardless.

The raid id system, more than anything, builds resentment amongst players from every experience I've had in the game. If anything, boss id actually builds more community because you can afford to bring bad players to the bosses in 2 different groups until you get stuck and then finish the raid with the players that care enough to learn their class. This also applies well to pugs in regards to boss id

The 20+ raid size system was a great way of adding a difficulty slider for casuals that should be in all SoD raids going forward. If a raid is too hard don't ask for nerfs just bring more people!

So having multiple difficulties and different lockouts are bad because it segments the community Yet gdkp runs which are filled mostly by people who only do gdkp which are essentially carries with no real community sense are ok because if you don't wanna do them just go to other raids Also people keep complaining about retail being full of FOMO but you can't make a raid reset twice a week because you HAVE to clear every reset because otherwise you will be permanently behind (and that can be applied to literally any content implemented that has a lockout) I swear every classic take the community has contradicts the last one

alexstrasza scorches bolvar alive to save him and no one questions anything but let an arcane mage rewind wounds on someone and suddenly it makes no sense

Asmon doesn't want to join a loot council guild because unless he's the guild lead he isn't good enough of a player to have loot prio. He likes GDKP because people give himself thousands of gold and he can just buy it all out. Also he's nostalgic from running scam GDKPs

I do think that GDKP's filled a necessary part of pug raiding. GDKP was both incentive for geared players to keep playing and smoothed out (for those with gold) the process of gearing out alts/new characters. The issue is that when you remove the incentive for the geared players there are less geared people helping to carry runs and as a result people become even more picky for who they invite because they don't want to wipe and waste time. Its not that GDKP itself is great, it just is something that helped maintained player pop in the raiding environment. The issue is Blizz removing it without having anything to fill the void of what it did for the scene. Parsing isn't an answer as someone who wants to parse won't join the groups that GDKP filled in a pug environment.

Soft res is a great system. Perhaps one of the best loot systems I've ever used. Its a nice feeling when only you soft ressed a piece of gear, and it drops, so you get it. On top of that, anything that isn't ressed, you get to open roll on...great system

I never raided back in vanilla and won't in SoD either. It's such a huge shift in time requirement going from leveling and dungeons to raiding, and I especially don't have that time now that I'm older. Raiding is a time sink to keep people around, and GDPK sounds like more of the same. A much better solution than grind would be to add more and better content, flesh out unfinished zones, add more races etc.

1:02:00 your character persists but all your gear is worthless so its basically the same since the only thing you don't have to do is level, which in retail is more of a formality than anything.

GDKP made people play 6 characters, even the same classes! You could fit in a really badass parse group, as a buyer and learn better this way too because you're a part of the run. For the very first time i agree with Asmond. If you're not the guy who has mountains of gold but you want x item he also need it's a win/win, you get your item or the gold split gets massive and you double your currency. I barely had time to do GDKP before they removed them but i had all kinds of fun experiences, many laughs too. You could be new, clueless and even afk half the run or get paid for your performance on a decent character... in the same exact content depending on how you feel today!

During SoD's announcement at Blizzcon the devs/panel SAID they are going to be very aggressive with runes and changes to the game in general to get a feel for what people do and don't like. Hoping this is all an actual Classic+ beta.

GDKP conceptually isn't a problem. The problem is when you introduce gold from bots/farmers/server transfers. I think you might be able to remove a lot of those problems if you cap servers at a population. If you cap a server at lets say 3000-5000 players then you limit the ability of gold sellers to recognize a potential buyer server. Locking servers also prevents people from transfering goods (black lotus) from other low pop servers and jacking the price up. At the end of the day we just don't like gold from illegitimate sources and when you play a game it's not good to play with people who treat this like a job and it ruins the economy. Again GDKP's conceptually are fine provided the gold was obtained legitimately such as selling stuff to vendors or quest rewards. Everything outside of that is a transaction of gold that you now have to another player, but the gold has to originate from a player that put in time to obtain it legit and not from botting, farming, or the same from other servers. Keep economies server specific.

I agreed with SOD having normal levelling spped for the current phase. Then when a new phase (level bracket) unlocks, add some XP speed boost to the previous bracket. To catch-up and focus play current phase. And I only consider that an option for SOD because it is seasonal.

At least you get bunch of gold and next time youre one step closer of getting it in SR you could lose it 20 times and still be as far as ever of getting your item

Asmon is wrong, what do you do when you're fulling geared. You pvp. I know he hates pvp in mmo's but thats literally what everyone used to do. Max out your gear and show to superiority over everyone. PVP is endgame not game ruining GDKP's. PvP is what keeps an MMO going when the PVE stuffs gets boring, which after a couple of clears, happens pretty quick.

I fully disagree with the idea that GDKPs were a big thing back in the day. They just weren't. I dont know a single person who actually did a GDKP run before ICC. Back in the day when you got fully geared, you helped your friends get gear, you did PVP, and most of the time you started playing an alt and doing it again.

Removing GDKP was a major deal. It killed PUG grouping. Guilds formed and all fell apart rapidly because of drama, and then the rapid decline began. Same with how they messed up PvP. Horde have insanely long queues unless grouped, which makes alliance face more partial Premades, and they did nothing to stop people from spamming AV end game (run to boss simulator), and MC is the same except it’s the SoM version. Final rant is some runes are so hard to get it’s beyond ridiculous. The phase 1 runes were mostly fun to find .. after that it got silly. They hit the sweet spot with phase 1 and should have never left it. Every area of the game was thriving.

59:00 stop thinking it is waste of time, you must enjoy the journey and the time spent, not the end result, you don't play for end result, you play for the sake of it, otherwise nothing is worth your time

20:12 I quit SoD because half my guild was gold buyers and they only got banned for 3 days to 2 weeks. Half of them weren't even that mad because they didn't lose the gold. If someone purchases thousands of gold, they need a perma ban not a 2 week.

I never completed a single raid from vanilla-BC because I was a ret paladin. I logged in to explore the world and pvp with my friends. Gaming was different back then. Min maxing wasn’t at the forefront, fun was.

I think GDKP is a bigger factor than he thinks but less than asmon. People are pugging still but are going to quit once they hit that 'i only need x and y'. Where as with gold runs i always leave with at least gold

Turtle Wow is currently creating a true classic +, was watching all of the videos of their server after Asmon watched a trailer. Classic wow but added high elf and goblin with custom starting zones and quests with lore true to the era. And much more lore finished and added in-game. And a small amount of spells/abilities that were really needed for classes in classic added

Mythic ilvl gear being the same ilvl as LFR in the next tier is what's crazy to me. The seasonal feeling comes in large parts from these massive jumps in ilvl every content patch.

Yikes, I kind of feel bad for Asmond, that multi minute rant about how he is (was) the fucking best and knows more than literally anyone else is giving huge, guy who peaked and is way beyond that peak and can't let go or accept he's not that guy anymore. That was a sad few minutes. Anyways, I feel like class need isn't completely erased like people like to act like it is, mage healer makes sense to me, it's crazy to me no one has ever seen a mage class heal in another game before? GDKP is whatever, I can see both sides of the argument. Raids being too hard was like a one or two week issue, and then fixed. and they were not at all difficult after that. The only reason I don't dislike the Discovers Delight is because it's a season and won't be here forever, with no PTR they would want us to his the cap level changes to test them out. Now if they relaunch and have DD in it, then I would have an issue, but also the idea of the slow leveling is dead, lets be real, even with Classic launch people just did nothing but dungeons until 60. I think SoD has been great, just for the fact that they are trying something new, that they have finally seen that the core of classic people love and are doing something with that. It's not all homeruns, but I appreciate them doing something.

Can we just appreciate this new meta between (WoW) KZfaqrs reacting to each other in genuinely mature and respectful ways while generating some awesome conversations?

low leveling with friends was fun for me! Doing the same quests for alts got stale after awhile for me. When character boosting became a thing and large xp buffs became a regular event. The journey to reach end game became dull for me personally because like okay what is there to do now beside mythic + dungeons and raids?

At the end of the gdkp, you got paid a lot of gold from that guys 150k

The problem here is the focus on gear and fair distribution. What is fair or not fair doesn't actually matter to most of the player base. Most of the player base just wants to have fun playing the game with the people they like and the chance at gear and gold and stuff is secondary. GDKP ruins a part of the game that those players need to enjoy playing; the economy.

I mostly agree with the take that classes each had their things they were good at and their things that required other classes to prop them up. I will however say i don't believe this identity fits with every single class in the game. I think there are genuinely classes in classic that just fall between the cracks and that there are other classes that are just generally better then they are at pretty much everything. A prime example of this is Enhance Shaman. There really isn't a single situation in the game for both PvE or PvP that an Enhance Shaman excels at or does better then any other class. You could maybe say that they bring windfury totem but any spec of shaman does that and it's not really a thing that benefits you or boosts you at all it just boosts all the melee around you to preform better. You could even argue that its a negative to their identity because the thing you think about with shaman is windfury its the most iconic thing they have in classic and windfury just gives their iconic thing away to other classes. Now I'm not entirely sold on this position as it is a bit subjective but my main point is that some classes have REALLY strong identities and benefits and other classes identities or benefits aren't really that beneficial at all. Not sure what a fix to this is that would actually make people happy just a thing worth noticing. For the leveling speed topic i agree for the most part except i do genuinely think classic was a bit too slow and it caused pacing and burnout issues. I enjoyed leveling in SoD with the 50% xp buff as that felt just about right to me where i still needed to dedicated time and effort to leveling but it felt better paced. The XP buffs past 50% and all the crazy xp from events like incursions and stuff were WAY too much and actually hurt people going out into the world and leveling, It just funneled everyone into the game into 1 specific zone to speed leveling and caused significant issues with the game. For the points of friction topic i agree that it is part of what makes classic great however i do not subscribe to the idea that all points of friction are good or an over all benefit for the game. There are absolutely many points of friction that have just caused people to quit the game or are just genuinely bad for the over all health of the game. The really hard part is figuring out which points of friction are good for the health of the game and which ones are bad. A prime example is world pvp, i know people that play the game entirely for world pvp and i know people that have flat out quit the game because of it. Its a very subjective point of friction.

Weird specs is one of the best parts of SOD. It makes grouping woth friends easier and has allowed for much greater class viability vs classic

And no, you cannot compare PvP rating and M+ to SoD Parsing. Because both have incremental difficulty as opposed to SoD parsing.

badtakemongold

GDKP removal is what making the game alive

I strongly believe that OS-WoW is coming and SoD is just the voting process to let them know how to make it. Vanilla+ or Classic+ will be built on the foundations of Classic and add the "modern" twists and turns that we are developing in SoD. Bypassing leveling just allows the development team to have the players experience changes and the final build will encompass Classic + SoD Changes for a new long term play style.

Couldn't agree more about slow levelling, as soon as instant gratification was introduced to skip this aspect the game became about sweaty end game boys. Best case scenario would be a game where levelling takes a ridiculously long time and furthest end game content was only touched by a small portion of people. It creates a universe where people feel the gravity of effort and it humbles them.

The BEST part about Sod is the new class and spec combos. Mage healer and Warlock tank for example. AMAZING. How people hate that part of Sod is beyond me. It's literally the number 1 best part of SoD. Tanks for example, it's not only cool to open the role up for more classes but actually REQUIRED in vanilla... Come on now..

Everyone focused on GDKP when you have Incursions that fucked the economy and the people who bought golds prior Incursions. Would be nice if *Warcraft logs* tracked gold incomes and invalidate parses of guilds that had a gold buyer.

If they do anything like this again they should just do a Classic+ without the leveling phases. Just release it with the ability to start leveling to 60 from the get go. And create actual new content. They should be looking at Turtle Wow and Project Epoch and get some ideas from them. The seasonal phases with boosted XP just makes people get to the end and burn out faster. I'm more or less done with putting tons of time into SoD. I'll go ahead and hit 60 and I'll probably just do dungeons and get tier 0.5 and then PUG MC/Ony when folks have them on farm and just need fillers. But I have no desire to be on a raid schedule and be spending tons of time farming for consumables and getting all the damn world buffs every week, multiple times a week.

42:25 correction: he got carried in cutting edge content at the end of a content cycle and he only was a raidlead so he could give himself all the loot.

Xaryu I have so much respect for the amount of restraint and levelheadedness you showed while viewing certain parts of this video. For example the insanely narcissistic egomaniacal rant beginning around 39:00. Asmon is a great content creator, one of the best ever perhaps, but this dude is completely out of touch and a victim of his own success. The close up blinks said it all lol. Your a legend bro keep up the great work.

(G)DKP is more fair than rolling in the sense you get DKP or gold even if you "lose" an item, or even if your item does not drop at all. Having bad luck with rolls makes it quite likely that you dont even gain anything from a raid. Also that it is pointless to join a raid with rolls if you have all the items already, which will make all raids slower and possibly fail since only somewhat geared and undergeared players will be raiding.

GDKP's even if you don't buy gold are great because no matter what you walk away with something. Even if you get outbid, guess what you get a percentage of the pot and you walk away with more gold and you have more gold to work with. If you do GDKP's regularly then you don't have to buy gold.

Imo, they should have just brought the other tank classes up to the warriors level and just given people dual spec or removed the respec cost. Allowing the healers and tanks to solo play instead of dumping their gold every week to respec.

GDKP are good because you can go get gear from regular raids then go to GDKP after you get the gear you want and get gold for consumes.

I will say that you are saying Asmon prefers a loot council system. I think he prefers the same style as me which is a loot council system but not a schedule that I have to show up every week. A system that is the same as loot council but not a work schedule where I have to show up 4 days out of the week for 4 hours. And if my class isn't the best, I'm not going to get the gear in a loot council even if I'm performing better than other players who are playing the better class.

hmm GDKP thing was huuuge, me and many other mature players left SOD After P1 cuz of the GDKP ban. They banned the one and only good loot system in the game haha. GDKP is simply the best because it allows someone to work towards an item. No one goes home empty-handed because even those who don't get an item still receive gold. After raiding a few times, you have enough gold to buy an item. It’s straightforward. You don't have to worry about some newbie with a lot of luck taking your desired item for the fifth time. Loot Council also sucks; they are just as corrupt as they were 20 years ago, with the council and their friends grabbing all the items while regular raiders, who don't kiss ass 24/7, leave empty-handed. GDKP can also be done with randoms, it's always fair. In WoW Classic, it is a misconception that you needed all classes for raids. If you look at the top-performing raid groups in Naxxramas, you'll notice many "sweaty" combinations. As many Warriors were brought along as possible because they were simply the best.

He goes on a crusade on gacha games for them having p2w, then complains about WoW not being f2w enough.

i was excited for sod but quit in phase 1 because i was tainted by how a small indie dev team can make a private server free and 10x better.

Asmon saying that GDKP's are fairer than normal runs, I'm pretty sure cheating is the definition of the word 'unfairly', people who cheat by buying gold get priority over everyone else, people who scam others get priority, people who have thousands of fans dispensing gold into their inventories get priority, it's the unfairest loot system there is as the only way to compete is to cheat.

Some of the most fun I had in classic was grinding. Be it jump runs, solo mara, or Frost E'ko. Doesn't matter. Gold sellers and multi boxers ruin this, and make the game a raid sim, or an honor grind. I don't like it

Most loot councils funnel gear to officers. Free roll raids are all well and good until some someone decides to ninja an item, and the group falls apart halfway thru the raid. Atleast in GDKPs you're incentivized to try to preform to get a cut, and if you dont get the item you want you atleast don't leave empty handed.

SOD had 10 layers today. Cata came for a visit.

Fair is everyone pays the monthly subscription and has an equal chance at rolls. Might as well add a feature where you can buy a dice that goes to 200 if GDKP is OK.

Banning of GDKPs absolutely had a massive negative impact on the pug scene in SoD. It's one of the biggest mistakes of the season for sure.

The whole idea of discovery is discovering new things, but it doesn't fundamentally make sense to completely change classes in those ways. Classic was far from balanced, but you played what you wanted and found a guild who wanted you. I don't mind them trying these things out but these things in particular do not make sense. I think what it really comes down to is the playerbase of SoD isn't as much as they expected so they need to have classes more balanced and be able to solo content

i said this in the original asmon video, and saying it here... THE CHARACTER IN SEASON OF DISCOVERY WILL NOOOOOT BE ERASED. Devs already said this

The raiding scene died without GDKP. All my friends quit. GDKP is just DKP in a tangible form that you can spend on other things in game.

I've never done GDKPs, but if they were around in SoD i might've stuck around longer. Got my full BiS, 99 parses on most bosses and then it just felt like there was nothing to do. I used to be against GDKP until i realized that it really is the most fair loot system, AND it adds content to people who no longer have content to do.

Bad take - gdkp is good for people that are geared, or people that want to make gold or people that like the reward if they don’t win gear. Not every gdkp involves gold buyers…depends on who you raid with.

I agree with asmon on the gdkp thing for a very simple reason. I think blizzard should fix the gold buying problem, as a consumer i have no obligation to know how, or care how difficult that is. That isn't my problem but i agree that them banning gdkp because they cant do as their tos would require them to do is a bad move, and i actively avoid and dislike gdkp.

The more friction the better. For most people the classic hardcore addon with the many different hades heat like feature added many challenges which was a whole realisation for a lot of players how to view and approach a game differently. RP self imposed challenge. I'm doing variations of this for more than twenty years. Really consciously thinking about it and deciding what I wanted from a game was in EQ and D2 way back. The items dupes and botting got to me. I didn't know who was legit and who not, so I cut all player trade and group activity. Over the years nolifers, swipers and streamers enforced my decision to just keep to myself. So ever since the survival genre wasn't really coined I practically played it that way. Early era Aion Cleric was the most broken class and the most fun I had soloing dungeons in very subpar gear. On BDO launch creating my own guild and solo grinding the missions to try to solo guild bosses in subpar gear on a valkyrie was great. Or now currently revisiting EVE Online with a self imposed ruleset and challenge which I don't really know if it will be possible.

I like how asmond says GDKP is fair, but its a plague in retail with people buying runs and titles left and right. Only for them to be invited outside of their bought runs, and turns out they're dogwater and can barely play the class they spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars gearing up.

I agree that people want fresh vanilla every so often. It’s been about four or five years since I played and I am ready to go again. Maybe play a different class etc.

Felt alienating as a very competent player to get on wrath/Cata classic, Sod P1. was hard to get into groups without a massive budget, Didnt intend on wasting time to spend gold on gear that I would normally just roll on and be done with it

GDKP has many different buyers and carriers. you don't have to pay thousands of gold on catch up raids. they do have lower tier GDKP so people can get in to the raids. now days people just want to play raids few times and quit or only wants full bis raiders. they are pretty cheap and helps you catch up. finding raid group was easiler with GDKP. streamers like Xaryu will never have that problem without cheap GDKP group. I disagree with him since all his opinion is just gatekeeping as top 1% streamer. not only gold buyers play GDKP. gold farming is huge and people don't cheat with RMT getting punished is just a bad decision.

He only wants what is best for him, always did always will, he will never care about anything or anyone else. He is the loser version of Kotick

Also, people that want to get parses aren't going to be trying to do that in pug groups, period, regardless of loot rules. The only way you can parse is if you are in a group that has taken the time to get full buffs, stacked good players/classes, and planned out how to approach boss strats. That requires coordinated guild groups.

A couple important points as to why GDKP had such a big impact. Its not only a way for top end players to have reason to continuously play after they've acquired their BiS gear, but also because there are a ton of lower end players and mid tier players that only play out of a guild setting that want to raid. If you take out GDKP then a lot of those top players that organize the raids and end up carrying bad players then you will ultimately cut out a large percentage of those players because they will never get into groups that can clear content beyond a certain point. Blizzard would have to implement huge sweeping changes to how easy content is and reward systems to incentivize players to do things without gold being a factor, which they aren't going to do.

14:20 I disagree wholeheartedly - just because 2004 wow was a certain way with certain specs shouldn't mean that SoD has to be as restraining as that. arguably - to have a more integrated population, every class SHOULD have two specs out of the three. that way - some dps can fill in for the healers or the tanks when PEOPLE GET TIRED OF DOING THE NOT FUN JOBS REQUIRED FOR MULTIPLAYER ENCOUNTERS. I play a paladin because magic and swinging a big ass sword is my fantasy I want to play in the warcraft universe - I end up wearing dresses and mallets and healing others, not doing anything to the enemy.... and all that experience is for me is - look at health bars and top off the ones that gets low hp...... THAT'S NOT FUN GAMEPLAY - I'M NOT EVEN HITTING THE STUPID DRAGON IN THE FACE!!! I'M JUST SPAMMING LIGHT IN THE ASS OF MY "FRIEND" ..... SO YES - I think asking the rogue if he could tank when it's been 30 minutes and no one is joining for the last spot is still reasonable - MORE reasonable than asking ME the Ret pally to use some lvl 50 dungeon gear and babysit you through a dungeon healing .... It's not as fun when the situation is reversed, now is it??

Saying gold is fair when you popularized having people opening trade and accepting all gold offerings is hilarious

Its actually comical how success has made asmon just straight money brained. He thinks making gold (in game money) as the primary driving force to play, just like for pvp he says there is no reason to pvp in wow cause u cant make a career out of it and make money so why waste your time. its almost like money has completely blinded him. Miss when he was just a gross nerd playing wow and being funny.

The moment i realized No Arena, they couldnt even add ruins of Lordaeron map...... For example one thing that made Vanilla good was classes could do 1 thing forcing ppl together an working together. And first thing I hear is healing Mage, Tank lock. They are going the complete wrong way, its narcassist that have seen the money and power in Blizzard and for the Last 15 years now taken up the the posisions that Me and 3 other RANDOM players could make a better game in 24h with

SoD struggling is just asmon using it as an excuse to say "i told you i was right because of these reasons" and he cant really prove those are the reasons at all.

We could say that about ourselves, we could all be doing better. Knew that one was coming ahah Xar is on point.

It was clear from the very start that SoD was a strategic blunder. The reason is that they focus on endgame content, but if what you enjoy is instancied content, every version of WoW is better than Vanilla. SoD is competing against WotLK, Cata, retail - and raiding in SoD is the worst by a huge margin. Trying to "take the best of each version of the game" can only lead to a duller version of the game. What they should do is focus on expanding the strong points of Vanilla : leveling, immersion, world PvP, social interaction - and the first thing they should do is move away from instancied content. Hardcore was fun because it forces the player to be fully focused - and being focused is a way to immerse the players but it’s also clear that this isn’t a viable option for a MMORPG. Loss of Xp or items, more World bosses, world PvP events is what they should focus on.

Phase 3 economy destroyed the game for my whole guild. Aint nobody swiping no credit card to enchant they fucking toons lol

SoD should of been more content. We didn’t want to break the game we wanted storyline, dunjs and raids. Finish those quest lines that just ended and left us hanging

1000% asmon never has this opinion if he didnt have streamer privilege. However, gdkp ban hasnt removed a huge problem with gold sinks at max level. Buying gold will still allow you to progress much faster than if you dont. Time sink just will never equate to swipping.

GDKPs are totally not necessary lmao. What do you do when you’re max geared even quicker via GDKP? Just farm gold and then what you’re already BiS geared. This just leads to more gold selling. You also don’t need guilds to do raids in classic, GDKPs are just pugs of random players most of the time, still works for them

Difficulty as a concept is subjective. Meaning what is hard for one player can be extremely easy for another. What the result of that becomes is: We have 2 camps feuding over what is Easy vs Hard, when in reality all versions of WoW, Classic, SoD and Retail are all Easy AND Hard simultaneously, depending on where across the spectrum of skill, understanding and knowledge about the game the player stating the claim "Easy" or "Hard" lands. Raid ID: Raid ID is more uniform to what Blizzard aim for with a Guild system, so in that aspect it makes total sense for WoW Classic. But the modern retail version of BOSS ID is the better version for all players in isolation. People who are not in a tight guild group or are just bad at the game, can with the BOSS ID model now get kicked out of the Guild or Raid if they are not good enough or are just fooling around dragging the rest of the Guild / Raid down without progression or loot lockout penalty. But it also create what Xaryu described an easer "fk off" mentality with the playerbase, because it is so easy to just get rid of a player or just leave mid raid without consequence.

Literally nothing vanilla left about SoD. Crazy fast XP, no journey, overpowered with skills and gear from the get-go, etc. etc. Only thing missing is the cash shop now.

I started playing in Vanilla and really started playing in Season 2 of BC. Clearing Kara/Gruul/Mag/SSC/TK/BT was such an awesome time. I don't EVER remember GDKP even being a thing back then, we never sold items to people. Arenas were what really made me love the game, got Glad S5 and that was my biggest achieve as a 14 year old kid. Had another dude I went to school with that was a Gladiator Horde druid, good times. I really don't ever remember GDKP, it was much more social then, people got carried often who were active socially but I don't ever remember buying/selling raid items. I don't remember it being in WoTLK either but maybe that was just me. I'm sure that it was present but it was not at all popular or advertised. At the time you were MUCH MORE likely to see people advertising 1800/2200 carries for gold.

What i dont like, is like what really defines a bad player? Numbers or how they use their abilities? For the most part its how they use their abilities, along with raid mechanics. But a lot of people just look at the dps and see if someone's low. They could be doing their rotations right, they just dont have that good of gear yet to do higher numbers hence why they are in the raid