Imagine if Thrawn was the main antagonist in New Star Wars Trilogy instead of the First Order!

Going to have to agree with the space smerf. The deathstar was a waste of resources and time. That's not including the fact they could have made planet killer weapon on much smaller scales.

It should also be mentioned in legends, Vader and Thrawn both saw it as a waste of resources and time. They in this regard were very like minded, preferring more capital ships and better star fighters. Vader also saw the Death Star as insignificant compared to the Force, and said as much in the original film. In legends, he even smiled after the Death Star was destroyed, because although his master would punish him severely, he was ultimately proven correct. Thrawn as you said put the empire and his people above himself. In legends he knew the Yuzhazn Vong were coming with gigantic fleets and warships. He wanted to keep the galaxy safe from the Yuzhazn Vong, and wanted a united fleet that could combat them. If Thrawn had any faults, it would be him trying to fight the New Republic instead of trying to inform them of the threat and making a temporary peace until the Yuzhazn Vong were dealt with. Bringing the Imperial Remnant forces under his control and producing as many ships as he could under the circumstances and then fight the Republic when they were weakened.

The Death Star was ultimately the biggest, flashiest vanity project for Sideous. He wanted a weapon so powerful to demoralize any rebellion but simultaneously show off the empires fortune, and might. As Luke said in Return of the Jedi, "you're overconfidence is your weakness".

I've concluded that Thrawn is smarter and shrewder than everyone else. He doesn't do anything without thinking three moves ahead.

Darth Sidious: This death star will protect me from any light side threat. *GETS THROWN DOWN THE SHAFT FROM THE VERY LIGHT SIDE THREAT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM*

It also represented about half of the best and brightest that the empire had to offer. Most of the rest went to the Executor, which suffered a similar fate. Not only does thrawn prefer a mobile navy of many capital ships, as it's the best configuration for a force to defend spaces like the empire owned territories, but it also ate a lot of the best personnel in the empire.

Both Death Stars were the bait to expose the light-side forces that would challenge Sidious. They would also work as a symbol of imperial power but would not be very useful as a military asset.

He's a tactical genius! Unlike everyone else in the empire!

When your Vice President and Secretary of Defense both tell you ‘no’ you should probably listen 😂

What I love most is how Sideus reaction to the Death Star destruction ranged from disappointment to being absolutely livid, even cloning the designer so he could kill him over and over again

On Sidious's view oh the irony how one so gifted in Force destroyed his answer to a rebellion of the Force. On Vader's view, power easily obtained if often easily lost. On Thrawn's view, he was a genius. Although a massive fleet would also consume massive resources, it would allow the Empire to have a show of power everywhere at once, and not just where the Death Star was at the time, and must harder to destroy let alone cripple.

The Death Stars were to me an obvious analog to Schwerer Gustav and Schwerer Dora. Really impressive weapons that sucked way too many resources from other needs because the arrogance of the leadership thought they could simply morale bomb their enemies into submission.

There's also this to consider. When people hear of the Death Star, will indeed submit in fear. Others, however, will throw everything they have at it because they have everything to lose. I think Sidious severely underestimated the Rebels resolve to fight.

This one was fascinating. I knew neither of them liked the Death Star but this lays out some very compelling specifics. Love the part about Vader “earning” his power through suffering

Moral of the story, always listen to Thrawne.

AM so excited to see Grand admiral thrawn in ahsoka series this summer

This video explains why Luke said to Darth Sidious in Episode 6 that "Over Confidence" was 'his' weakness. However, this video proves that it's not just over confidence that led to Sidious' downfall, it was his arrogance towards the fact that he believed that since the Jedi were all but defeated after the Clone Wars, nothing would stand against him, not even the Rebellion or the Force itself. It was also his ignorance towards others who expressed their concerns towards Sidious' plans including Thrawn and Vader. Overall, it was a combination of different factors that led to the downfall of both Sidious and the Empire. Had he heeded the concerns of Thrawn and Vader, the Galactic Civil War would have turned out differently.

Very interesting as always i find sidious and thrawn's interactions very illuminating

I’m not surprised thrawn opposed the Death Star. In Rebels he was portrayed to be a very quiet imperial operative. Plus it wouldn’t fit his personality, he was never very flashy despite owning hard to acquire artifacts

Imagine Thrawn with the starforge. He'd be unstoppable

wasnt it said also in legends that the true purpse of the death star was to repel the Yuzhazn vong ? i remmeber seeing that some were

He is the reason why my first toon in SWTOR was a Chiss. Such an inspired character. I'm happy he's finally getting a real treatment in a live action show on Disney

Another figure in the Empire that didn't like the Death Star was Grand General Tagge, his views probably would have supported Thrawn's stance as he believed that the station was a major waste of resources that would have been better off allocated in the military for example the amount of Super Star Destroyers that they could build.

Great vid with solid analysis and commentary. Thx for this!

a planet has so many resources that would be wasted once it was destroyed, something that could set a planet's atmosphere on fir would be a much better option but the rakatan star forge would be thrawn's favourite superweapon

I agree with Thrawn

Thrawn was my preferred choice of the villain after Return of the Jedi. He used art, logic, and characteristics of people to be ahead of everyone. Mitth'raw'nuruodo was a genius.

The idea that Sideous made the Death Star as a means to fight against any Force divine intervention is awesome and puts the Death Star into a new perspective for me

Fun fact: Thrawn met Vader before but he was Anakin at the time and Thrawn respected Anakin at the time

Legends canon also says that the death star was also a weapon to use against the yuzzhan vong.

Thrawn was right from a certain point of view. He was short-sighted about the deathstar as a psychological weapon, which could be used far more effectively than an entire fleet of star destroyers.

Thrawn has a weakness, actually several. He expects betrayal, and weakness in others, and keeps things close to his vest. That will eventually trip him up.

Great video! Fascinating stuff. What is the name of the dark ominous music playing in the background? Please let me know.

The Death Star should have aways stayed a contingency or a Feet Hub. At the very least they should have never used its main weapon against a member world unless to deplete it's planetary shield (witch could do at half power), and they should have put a lot more point defense or anti-fighter defense in place

4:55 Like he said in A New Hope "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed."

Thrawn does have a point to hate the Death Star: it could be pointed at his home people, it would destroy many cultures alongside the planets, they decommissioned the entire Clone Army to make the project more affordable, and they even disbanded the Senate (after he was banished to Peridea) . You could see how the Death Star would backfire on Palpatine

Sidious thought it was a good idea cuz he was a psychopath.

Tenebrous' grand plan made more sense. He wanted to merge the Dark Side with Supercomputers. This would allow him to predict the future, use the Force as an energy source and create a post scarcity planned society. No Order 66, no Death Star. The Jedi would fade from relevance, and the galaxy would enter a new age of prosperity.

Centuries ago the Spanish built large ships with multiple rows of cannons along each side, built to overwhelm enemy ships with dozens of shots crashing through the enemy ship it went against. The English decided to build smaller ships with fewer cannons, and lots of them. When the conflict with the Spanish and English came to a head the Spanish sent their fleet into the English Channel to attach the English ports and invade England. The English fleet met them there and the battle begun. The smaller and lighter English ships were also much faster and were able to literally sail circles around the Spanish ships at speeds that made it very hard for the Spanish to time their shots so that they would hit and were further hampered by the fact that their cannons were designed to either hit other ships at a distance or similar sized ships up close. So by getting up close and maneuvering at high speeds and with multiple smaller ships for each smaller Spanish ship, the English were able to put enough holes in the sides of the Spanish ships at the water line that they were able to sink the majority of the Spanish fleet. In an attempt to escape the English and with their path south blocked by the English fleet, the remains Spanish fleet sailed north, right into the stormy North Sea which tore their sails apart which made it impossible for them to maneuver and let waves crashing into their sides roll them over and the seas to crash over the decks and sank the remainder of the Spanish fleet. The English were like small birds going after the fearsome hawk and driving it away, only much deadlier. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7mHlqyTs9LWaas.html

penultimate means second to last ;) Love your videos 👍👍

I just find it funny that Sidious openly says he doesn't wish to rule over an empire of the dead and yet his go-to is these planet killers that eliminate billions.

Thrawn specifically wanted to shift funding from Project Stardust to his TIE Defender fleet.

The Death Star was simply the Empires "Dora" Gun. The largest train artillery ever build - and which actually saw use. The resources spend on it have been massive. And it really saw only very little combat. The psychological effect of it however particularly on the own troops was massive though. Ultimately it was a waste of resources though. A display of gigantomania.

I think had they stuck to a Clone Army (verified that there were no chips or way for the clones to rebel against the Empire) and opted for an even larger fleet with a "third variant" of the ISDs and more SSDs I think the Empire would've lasted forever. (If they stuck with no more clones then sure more recruit) More flexibility, control, but most importantly presence. It's the presence of the Empire that has the people on its toes. Also, if Palpatine did not disavow the senate I think we would've seen more success. If they had granted access to Imperial Resources (troops/ships in exchange for materials) his Empire would have been secured from a political standpoint as well. (Imperial Senate using ships/troops to quell pirates, unauthorized movements within Imperial sectors, rebellions, etc)

Thrawn had balls of beskar. Not having any actual knowledge, but yet he pulls up to palps like "sir-bro, we gotta talk."

Lmao Palpatines face around 2:57 😂

Honestly the emperors biggest mistake was switching out the clone army for some regular people in white armour and wielding blasters

Vader also likely had issue with the Death Star being created via slave labor. He expressed this to Palps when he heard about the Empire using slaves.

Maybe he wanted to create the 5th imperium from dahak series. Each ship was moon sized and had gravitonic warheads. Beams broke things down at molecular levels.

if the money that went into the death star went into the TIE defender elite project the rebels would have been swiftly obliterated, the TIE defender elite had and I quote""speed, weapons and shields superior to any fighter in our fleet" and their analysts had yet to find a weakness in the design, 20 of those could have wiped out the rebel base on yavin.

OK, soo, was the other Death Star being built concurrently or directly after the 1st one was destoyed?

I doubt that the ones that wrote Episode IX knew about Thrawn.

With the ability to "glass" a planet like was done to Mandalore with the Imperial fleet, why is there a need to blow one up completely? Kind of a logic error, but maybe just because it's more fun.

It's brought up in rebels briefly how so many resources are going to "project stardust" when Thrawn really is pushing for his tie defender program to continue funding.

Amazing

The Death Star is really the perfect weapon. The engineered flaw aside (easy to correct), the battle station is better than using the resources for a larger fleet. The simple fear of planetary destruction alone forces planets into submission. It’s too large to attack with capital ships as no one has a fleet big enough to succeed. Vader didn’t like the Death Star because it was ultimately a technological superior over the force. The force is an energy field between all living things and the worlds they exist on. Destroying the worlds, destroys the force.

Not only could the two deaths stars budget have made a bigger star destroyer fleet but could of also made a much better tie fighter design and upgrade

I wish/love to see Palpatine versus the Yuzong Vong

Makes sense. Cool.

I'm not surprised Thrawn was right. Brilliant tactician and strategist. I agree with Vader too. Death Star was operated by people who didn't deserve to be there,to operate it. It should be operated by those who deserve it. I completely agree with Thrawn. And Vader. Both were so right. May the Force be with you too :)

This is why every manager should listen to there employees

The irony that both the dark and light side of the force turned on Sideous because of the Death Star.

Thrawn cared more about his own people the Chiss, more than he cared about the empire. Thrawn joined the empire as a spy, to evaluate the potential danger they present to his people. At the end of the day, he is loyal to his people.

Ultimately even though Vader made all the wrong sacrifices, he was still proven correct for anyone who for any reason wants power and control to any degree must be willing to sacrifice and be willing to do anything to attain it and keep it. Even Sidious made sacrifices and accepted his consequences for what he wanted, so quite literally they both proved that they indeed earned their power and control, despite not making overall good choices, they at least proved they were "higher, more powerful ", beings because they put their personal relationships and their physical wants on the back burner and valued their long term goals and their loyalty to their power and in essence the Dark sides wishes, because despite Palpatine foolishly thinking he had complete control over the Dark side itself all sith are ultimately subject to the Dark side period and Vader especially during the time of a New hope, he understood that much deeper than Palpatine ever did, mainly just because he never foolishly thought he was actually in control of the Dark side, but instead honored the Dark side and respected its power and it's will, in that way he actually exceeded Palpatine in terms of actual control the only reason he never overpowered Palpatine was because of the sheer amount of knowledge of the Dark side that Palpatine had and the simple fact that Palpatine was taught by one of the most knowledgeable of Sith in Darth Plaugouse. So quite literally if Vader had not been as physically limited as he was he could have very easily overpowered Sidious just in his natural force abilities which in his full power would have literally overshadowed the Emperor in terms of sheer might in the force.

Which game is that at the end?

Too many star destroyers means factions can break out. The empire collapses under warlords.

Star Wars: The deathstar was a massive target and drain on resources and ultimately helped lead to the end of the empire. Disney: what if we made an even bigger death star?

Tagge was against it as well he was the guy vader force choked in ep4 movie. Just like thrawn he said it was better to make more ISDs

the death star is a failure from any conceivable viewpoint, i remember vaguely on wookieepedia reading about how the hutts also had planet destroying weapons that used large asteroids as the ammunition, there have existed either a few or many things in the star wars galaxy that can destroy planets and even more, all sidious had to do was scrounge around some old sith ruins to find a bunch of old anti force stuff if he wanted protection from a light side jedi.

The Death Star was literally a shortcut to a long term goal. Thrawn was a master strategist and saw everything wrong with it. Plus the Death Star actually made the empire weaker. Kind of how a Mandalorian is dangerous to any and every type of fighter, but they are too reliant on their tech.

As a machine that has a lot of small moving parts so does a weapon great enough to destroy worlds. Vaders thought of the the Death Star was short sighted. Every bit of personnel on the DS had, in some way contribution to the effective operation of the station

the rebels put all their eggs in one basket to spring the trap on endor too.. although the emperor was dumb enough to personally oversee that battle.

A fleet of ships could easily destroy a planets surface. The total demolition of a world and it's resources makes no sense in terms of effort and cost. Additionally a large navy can be flexible and deployed in many ways simultaneously to fight and destroy the rebellion on multiple fronts. The Death Star was intimidating but not tactical.

It made sense that the empire needed the tie defender the normal ties don’t have shield or hyperdrive.

Imagine if they made super ISDs rather than the death star. Each fleet has one with a swarm of regular ISDs. They could wreck a planet if they wanted to. Not blow it up but more than powerful enough to send a message.

Where is this info from?

Its worth mentioning that Thrawn wasn't the only Grand Admiral who saw the downfall of the deathstar. When at least 2/12 of your Grand Admirals hold concerns, it's worth listening to them

rebelion could come from within. a large fleet could slpinter into factions and rip the empire apart. maybe palps feared that?

But if Admiral Thrawn said this to Emperor Palpatine directly to him offering his opinions, he'd get force choked if taken too far.

Thrawn knew the better idea was to put planet killing lasers on every star destroyer. But those star destroyers should be buried first. Because something.. something.. darkside.

Little tip, if the two most iconic Characters of your verse think something is a bad idea listen to them !!!!!!

Thrawn is the universes ultimate threat.

What does alien mean in star wars? Please help me out

Curious... the Death Star's weapon is powered in part by kyber crystals. By forcing that kind of hate/fear from the Death Star through them, shouldn't that make them bleed? Wouldn't that make the blast from the Death Star red instead of green?

Mentioning TROS is straight poison to me but Thrawn is worth it

This is why I always liked legends reason for the Death Star better holding a space gun at people all the time is not going to create stability it’s going to just show the galaxy how much u should join the rebellion his hole thing in the government was being seen as the good guy u can’t manipulate people if you’re crazed dictator

Better than drinking water at 3AM

Thrawn in canon, probably: I thought I would never again see Imperial minds create a project as idiotically vain as the Death Star... and then I heard about Gideon's plan to clone himself into an entire army.

Ah. This actually explains a few things about superweapons in general, when combined with your movie about why the Force (including the Dark Side) hated the Death Star. It was not just a weapon to crush any rebellion. It was a weapon to crush the Force itself, should Darth Sidious consider it neccesary. That would indeed explain the difference in vision between him, Thrawn and Darth Vader. And why he might've considered their visions lacking.

maybe thrawn was out trying to get fleet bigger to and thats why we dont see him on deathstars so palpatine controlled vader and built deathstars but other second in command thrawn was building fleet bigger

WTF man 😭😭 2:56 my eyes. what have you done?!

The empire did not need more Death Stars they needed massive numbers of smaller ships like Cruisers Destroyers, and Torpedo boats and not more battleships. You don't need a sludge hammer to kill a fly.

What if Thrawn was in command of the final battle at exgol?

I don't think Thrawn cared for the empire as an end, at least not at this point in time. What he put above himself was his people, the Chiss Ascendancy. The empire was but a means to achieve his goals ; protecting his own kind against the Grysks.

So here's a question. If they had the ability to streamline and confine the power of planet killer to a single gun on a Star Destroyer...why did they WASTE so many resources on not one, not two but THREE Planet Killer bases?!!! And it can't be because the technology wasn't there. Cause it's too big of a leap tech wise to go from a Moon sized gun to a far smaller gun on a capital ship.

I think the reason that sidings ignored thrawn is because he was already building a fleet on exagol

Fully operational and all.

Thrawn was probably the most valuable commander the empire had. Even more so than Tarkin. Thrawn approached everything from a pragmatic perspective and wasnt afraid or blonded by idealism. He wasnt power hungry either. He was on poont how absolutely wasteful it was to put everything onto the death star

Vader doesn't shock me, he literally shows he doesnt like the death star in ANH 😂