I always figured VTubers and other streamers started with a lot of chatting to allow the rest of their audiences time to tune in in case they missed the start, but this new insight is actually quite fascinating. Thanks :)

I always love how Geega lets us see behind the scenes

From my experience there's a big difference between an "entertainer" streamer and one that focuses on one or a handful games at most. An entertainer has viewers that enjoy light chatting, the streamer talking about themselves, collabing with friends and whatnot. A gaming streamer (for the lack of a better term) has viewers specifically for that one game. The fans could watch an 8 hour stream of the same game every day and the numbers just go up. But the millisecond the streamer switches to a different game, everyone stops watching. A good example I remember for this used to be BoxBox, known specifically for his League of Legends Riven gameplay, who then had a very difficult time branching out without losing all of his viewers.

I personally don't really like chatting streams, so it was kind of eye-opening to see this. It's always fascinating to see the data behind stuff like this.

That's probably one of the reasons GTA RP is popular, because you're able to listen to the streamer have unique conversations with many different people, there's things at stake for messing up, and the human element keeps things unpredictable and fresh.

Geega has so much knowledge of this kinda stuff and I love that she explains it to us Also she's so right about the attention thing. Keeping track of a gameplay stream takes way more energy than a chatting one

I like how analytical she is and open about the process and metrics

Can confirm that's definitely my pattern. I'm there for the Geega podcast. It also doesn't help that Geega plays hype games like Armored Core 6 exclusively off stream.

Probably also a loss of audio-only biewers who can't handle that much extra noise and stuff during the workday, or while doing other stuff with this on in the background

I don't think it's exclusive to vtubers either, it was the entire platform for Twitch where, people you watch based on personality (or in some cases, because they're pretty, it seems) tended to drift more and more into just chatting over time. I do think the games have a different and potentially positive effect on larger time scales, but just chatting is just the broadest possible appeal at any given point

Chatting is the common denominator of your channel, not everyone who watches you will like every game you play but they're all there for you in the end, a game will splinter that in the direct amount of viewers but it can get you exposed to new people who are into the game itself, people move around Like doing collabs, you will usually mutually exchange some viewers, people can eventually grow fatigued of someone they watch a ton but a collab can turn them on to the person you're collabing with and vice versa, it's symbiotic, streaming becomes much more interesting when you think of viewers as little trading cards

This is really interesting to see, because I'm the complete opposite! I mostly watch vods and when I do, I almost never watch just chatting streams, because I feel like there is too little going on for my brain and I need the gameplay and chatting to really concentrate on other things like drawing or working. I do enjoy zatzudan clips though.

For me it’s not only the increased attention a game takes, but also the previous context. If a game with story is played, I don’t like to start watching in the middle and I probably didn’t watch all the streams with this game that came before.

I can listen to Just Chatting while doing something else. A stream is hours long. I can go make dinner, mop the floor, something, and it's there in the background. Every now and again something happens and I can glance over for the visual part. I'm paying attention, I just don't have a 4 hour block to sit there. Who has a 4 hour block? I don't have a 4 hour block for ME to play video games. Video games mean I have to actively sit, watch, and listen.

I guess i shouldnt be surprised im in the minority. If im watching a stream live, its almost always a game I enjoy. I get my chatting moments from clips.

It's not even just vtubers. I watch many streamers. Vtubers, webcam streamers, and people with no webcam at all, just a starting soon screen. I've found almost all of them start their streams with at least 30 minutes of chatting, if not an hour. It's a good way to let viewers come in, and still engage with the chat. Let people settle in. Tell stories, let chatters tell stories. That kind of thing. Let alone some streamers just enjoy doing that to get in the streaming mood.

It's honestly dependent on the Vtuber/streamer in question. There are plenty of other streamers or VTubers who actually gain viewership while they play games. It may also depend on how they cultivate their audience and their audience's expectations, how entertaining their gameplay or reaction is or how well they're able to maintain interaction with chat while playing a game. So I wouldn't suggest anyone to take Geega's numbers and statistics and go "Sasuga, this must apply to every VTuber/streamer out there".

Geega is just so well spoken that sometimes it feels like she's reading off a script. I feel like she'd be a really good teacher.

I wonder if it's just two different audiences. I've joined a few Vshojo streams thinking "Oh they're playing this I'd like to check it out" and three streams in a row I wasn't actually able to keep watching until they got to the game. Now if I open the stream and they aren't playing I'll often just leave.

The thing about story games is you can only watch them if you know what's going on. I can't watch someone get a bunch of endings for a cool game if I missed the other streams where they played the game. This is why VODs and Let's Plays are so much better as a medium for those things than livestreaming.

One thing I've found too is a lot of times I'll jump out of a stream because the game is TOO interesting and I want to play it without more spoilers lol. It's a tough balance, I'm sure!

VERY good tip for streamers in general. Trying to keep engaged with their audience, YOU as a stream need to be the reason they come to the channel.

Geega is one hell of a smart lady, love her streams

this is really insightful! i was always curious too

that is so wild. ive watched it happen and looked at the CCV but damn, thats crazy.

I thought the pre chatting was mostly just prepping and updates on whatever happened yesterday they want to discuss before the game and or discussing plans lel

I really enjoy it whenever streamers have "insider baseball" moments like these

Im the opposite, I usually skip the just chatting and tune in for the game. Thats fascinating, I wouldnt have thought those would be the statistics.

Streamers have a lot to think about for their stream and content

I mean I get that, I'm someone who doesn't watch a lot of streams because I want to do my own stuff so I usually don't stick around for multiple hours unless I'm personally engaged and I think that's just how it is with most people to varying degrees.

Honestly the chatting segment is usually my favourite for any vtuber stream. Anyone can provide decent gameplay with enough practice but the banter between vtubers and their chat is a whole other level of entertainment.

I could actually say i learned something new about vtubers and streaming, plus it makes sense now why vtubers do chatting first then something else next.

Also seeing streamers play games makes me wanna play games

Im now so in the mood to watch her throw down some backpack battles now

Every Geega clip I see, she's a real one

Also factoring into that is how much time a person has to actually watch the stream live…. I prefer vods since I can pause, rewind, and watch at my own leisure. I don’t have 40 hours each day to spend watching all the 20+ VTubers I like and thus pick and choose vods based on game, collab partners, and my mood at the time.

Nice. Im always curious about that too. I mean they sometimes chat for 30mins to hours so can't help it but be curious.

I really appreciate Geega’s just chatting part of her stream since I’m working at the time and just listen to her stream . Helps me not go postal at work . I go from Buff to Zen and Geega during my work day depending on who’s chatting or gaming .

I think a lot of people want to multitask. They will listen to a stream in the background while they do something else. If it's a game, they need to sit down and watch in order to get full context of what the streamer is talking about.

Chatting also helps showcase the model. In a game the model is gonna be so so much smaller

Damn... that was an interesting clip.

This is enlightening tbh

Twitch's recommendations are based almost entirely on what category you're streaming in. Since Just Chatting is by far the most popular category on Twitch you'll get the most people recommended to your stream if you're in that category as opposed to a relatively unpopular game, and those people will leave once the Just Chatting segment ends.

honestly, "just chatting" is my favorite category, and from what she is showing us, im not alone 🤣

I think Geega is being tricked by the numbers here a bit. Yeah, There is a falloff when you start the game, because you're starting the game multiple hours into the stream. All the people who were watching beforehand, are people that were there for the chat. When you see a chart like 2:00, you should compare the viewercount to the start of the stream, not it's highest point. Most people who would be interested in watching you play Faith, are probably not the same people that want to watch a 5 hour just chatting stream. You can't just suddenly switch up on people mid-stream 5 hours in and go 'Oh, everyone is leaving, games must suck for viewership'. If you started the game near the start of the stream, and then had a just chatting near the end, like some hololive streamers do, well, guess what, people are there to see them play the game, so their viewership plummets when it reaches the 'just chatting' part. You have to give your audience time to adapt. As for puzzle games, I don't think those are indicative of general trends, because puzzle games can be VERY frustrating to watch.

This is interesting but it makes a lot of sense. Gaming is great if you're into the game, but everyone's taste in games is different, and it's a lot harder to join the stream halfway through depending on the kind of game it is. Whereas chatting is a lot more universal and you can jump in any time, so it probably has a higher ceiling. I think that's where someone like Northernlion shines so much, he's able to basically do both at once, you can either watch the game or just leave it open in the background and listen to him talk about grocery stores and random tiktoks he saw on twitter

As a viewer, I find myself reacting to content shifts during streams to make a decision on what I am need to be doing. It's not that I dont want to watch the game, it's that I slightly procrastinate my time allotted to watch X thing. Think old school TV where people get up to use the restroom during a commercial break but instead it's when a collab is over and I need to go buy groceries. lol

Geega always give such true insight.

Woah, this is good content, i gotta check her out

when geega starts playing games I know I missed bedtime by an hour

that's crazy. i think it also really depends on what kind of streaming etiquette you're used to: the first vtuber i actually started watching always started the stream with the game on, and went straight to gaming, leaving the chatting segments at the end. he actually loses audience when he switches to just chatting, which is the complete opposite of what we're seeing here. i think streamers can groom their fanbase into liking whichever of the two models, but the downside is that their fans won't tune in for the part of the stream they aren't taught to like lol

On one hand, I guess it's because gaming is a lot less hands on and interactive, but at the same time it's still the same person, the same banter. That cutoff is wild to me.

One other thing to keep in mind is that if it's a story or puzzle game that I intend to play, I'm going to close the stream so that I can preserve my own blind playthrough. Backpack Battles (and most rogue like) games dont have that problem, so it doesnt surprise me that it has better retention

The drop off could also be explained by veiwer endurance. That graph is a span of like 2-6+ hours. People could just be getting tired of watching streams in general. Could also be like spoiler avoidance depending on the game.

by the way, go take a look at the views for, for example, Doki's latest streams. her stream from yesterday about advice (basically just her talking) already has 100k views. before that, the Steam Sale stream (just her talking again), over 100k views. when she plays, stuck at 90k-ish (unless it's a collab). audience likes to hear the anime woman talking, the games are a lot of the times besides the point

I will admit that even though I don't leave a steam when they start playing a game, I do take that opportunity to move the stream to my second monitor and fire up a game or do some work on the primary, so yeah I will notice that even if the view number doesn't take too much of a dip the amount of people actively typing in chat goes way down

I'm always down to watch a just chatting stream but gaming streams depend soooo much on what game it is. Some games I'm just not interested in watching even if I love the streamer and I'll come back for the next one when they're doing something else

I think some just put on twitch like radio and a visual game doesn't work for that. So those are the ones at the beginning that leave.

I think what it has to do with is engagement. If you are watching and hoping to interact with the streamer the likelihood and quality of that interaction if you do get it is way lower if they are engrossed in a game.

I just listen to a lot of streams in the background, which is MUCH harder to do with games vs just chatting.

tbh as soon as I heard the question it only took my 2 neurons to figure why in like 1 second lol...

I dont know if she'll see this, but this is my take. 100% agree with everything said, but also Just Chatting you can drop into at any point and you'll easily get into the flow of the conversation. For a game, if you miss an hour of it and then check into the stream, its highly likely people will just immediately leave again because its much harder to get into the flow when the game has already started. I think when you have consistent views it means you have the same amount of people replacing the people leaving. When you switch to a game, less people are replacing the people who would have left regardless of the topic

Streamer: I'm gonna do such and such next stream, join me at this time~! it's be a big thing so be sure to be there! Me: Well that day I have two hours before I have to head out, could be fun to watch a while. That day two hours later we're STILL at the talky bit and the "thing" hasn't even been mentioned yet.... x_x

Attention spans are tricky. I forget the general rule but if you have like a long popular podcast you can often predict within seconds when someone is going to, maybe not change the subject but bring up something additional or new or interesting. That's to maintain listening time.

I just realized that i do this too unless i like the game they're about to play or I'm curious about it.

This is also why most streamers do their sponsored segment at the end of stream, since it’s the lowest viewership time it’s the lowest viewer loss risk.

Yeah I don't do that. If I see someone starting in Just Chatting I go do something else for like an hour until they finally switch categories to the thing that they said they had planned on doing. It actually annoys me when someone does JC for so long because most times people do not lead interesting enough lives to go on for several hours every day in that category. That and, depending on the game, it's treated as a chatting stream anyway.

I kinda figured it was since vtubers have this expensive and intricate model that is kinda the whole point of their presence it'd be a waste to not have it on full screen even for just a little while

This is quite interesting. To be fair I don't tend to watch unless it is a game I am really interested in but I do keep the tab open until the stream is over. Let's be real with all these V-tubers you never know what is gonna happen, and sure there will be clips of all the best stuff later but sometimes live is best. I will never forget the day Calli of HoloEN learned live before an audience of thousands how kazoos work. It was a thing of beauty.

1500 is still a lot of people

I think that this is actually good since it means people came for the streamer. Better than people coming to see a game since those trends come and go.

If you ask me I'd say it's much more likely to be due to the parasocial relationship dynamic many viewers build with vtubers. Just chatting can make it feel like you are giving them your full attention while gaming can, obviously, detract from that.

Opposite for me. I close chatting and tune into gaming sections.

I wonder how much that slide changes when it's a popular game like Helldivers 2 or Palworld (at it's peak). I know popular streamers like Asmon and Charlie go up in views, but I don't know if it's the same for smaller streamers. I'd certainly be more interested in a Just Chatting stream if a streamer's playing some random puzzle game I couldn't care less about. At least Just Chatting streams make for good background noise while I do other things.

Interesting. Definitely something to consider as a streamer. The only problem is you need a certain viewer size to do just chatting properly 😅

I'm not sure how relevant this is, since I'll rarely catch streams and watch vods most of the time but at least for me her theory is pretty spot on. I have these streams in the background and chatting is way easier to follow and also enjoy than most games when I'm unable to divert a larger chunk of my attention to it

I think interesting would be seeing "in-flux" and "out-flux" vs just the total ...

I think it also depends on who it is whose doing the 'Just Chatting'. For instance, Matara is great; she comes in with a plan and doesn't leave a single second of dead air - girl is a pro! And Henya is super responsive and has an inquisitive personality that works well for the format. In cases like those I can see why audiences would really like, or maybe even prefer, the chatting segments. But say someone like Mouse or Nyan who sometimes have a tendency to ramble, leave dead air, and repeat themselves, I can see how the opposite might be true at times.

It kinda makes sense because in just chatting kinda everyone can "participate" in chat and maybe just listen to the streamer talking but for a specific game some people might not like it and it's fair if they switch stream then or maybe they also want to play the game later. Like the possible audience is just smaller probably

I always figured it was because the game isn't necessarily ready to play right out of the gate. Like the streamer just installed it or there's an update.

Hey das me in there

ngl I always tune out when the games start. I just like chatting cause I'm lonely.

Type A chatter spotted

Actual data-backed claims about the entertainment industry by an entertainer? Bless this girl, this is very valuable.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those chatting people are ones who just like listening in on the stream while they do other things like background noise.

Not every game will appeal to everyone, but chatting appeals to everyone.

People also probably like the chatting more because it's interactive and engaging. As soon as a streamer starts playing a game they're concentrating on the game and chat loses that engagement. Some streamers will try to still focus on the chat, but when that happens the gameplay suffers and it becomes annoying for those who want to see quality gameplay watching someone whose constantly distracted or being interrupted by alerts, etc. So there's a balancing act between 2 demographics you can't please simultaneously. There are some exceptions, like streamers playing horror games where chat can jump scare the streamer or if the streamer has set up a stream specifically to get trolled by the chat. But that's not normally the case.

Gotta farm the parasocial

I only watch the game when the streamer is extremely good at it, especially fighting games.

This is the model for almost all Phase Connect solo streams. 20-200 minutes of just chatting before heading into the game the stream is for.

Sometimes I quit because they start playing a game that Im also playing and dont want to be spolied, totally different with a game I know will ever play.

A lot of people like having streams on in the background while doing other things so it makes sense. I am guilty of this cause I’ll be drawing but once they start playing a game I feel the need to watch the game but while drawing I miss things so then I drop the stream. I don’t do this all the time I do enjoy watching games but I get it yk?

THERE'S A SEQUEL?!

With me its like, i watch streamers play games i KNOW i like and when they start, it triggers FOMO within me and it makes me wanna go boot up the game myself but i do keep stream up in the background if i can

Ok but... Talos Principle is a goated series

For me, I like watching a streamer because I like their personality, so chatting will always be appealing. Meanwhile, the game really depends on what game their playing. I've sat through 3-4 hours of Ace Attorney, but I tune right out of Minecraft after 15 minutes. It's interesting because when it comes to actually playing the game myself, my habits are the opposite. I prefer to play Ace Attorney in short bursts, doing one day at a time, while in Minecraft I'm much more willing to grind for a long stretch.

I think there are only a handful of games I can watch played now that I'm older, if I try watching someone like asmon play they miss important context or items constantly and I find it frustrating and can't really enjoy myself, if I watch a fellow tryhard I tune out because it looks exactly the same as my minmaxy borderline speedrun of the game looked. I do love the chatting at the start of streams though, a lot of the non vtubers I watch also do this, gives people time to tune in and to talk to the streamer so you feel like you're actually watching live and have interaction

There's probably also alot of people who don't actually watch, but just listen to it while doing sth else, which doesn't work aswell when it's becomes more gaming noises instead of talking. I'd guess that's probably that big initial drop off.

Geega's numbers reflect most vtubers. Personally, I tune out during free chat. I don't even watch the free chat segments of my oshi. It's just not what I'm looking for. But, I do understand why free chat is popular.

Same with many of the tub streamers, used to watch one back in the day, wholesome and cute girl playing mostly Warframe and her own rpg browser game I think her partner had made together with viewers. Tune in a few years later, pool in the middle of the room, the cute pink setup gone, hair cut short and her ass was 70% off the screen with a yellow banana floatie being the rest. Asked her and the reason being that games just don't get the views on twitch. That other one as well, Amouranth said the same thing, she likes games but the second she start a game half the viewers leave, so might as well just do the thing that actually gets the views then.