Palpy needed a monster to make people embrace the Empire.

@@TheGoodLucI mean that was Dooku though.

@@creed8712 nah, grievous was the nightmare fuel behind the CIS

@@creed8712 grievous spread fear among the galaxy, while dooku persuaded the galaxy into joining the separatists

@@AccurateThings tell that to the Mahren

Agreed.

Hello there.

Same I've always loved his character. Maul is my favorite but grev always been up there. I just wish we could explore his warrior past a bit more I felt like they could never agree on him in the movies and shows if he's supposed to be a badass Jedi slayer or if he's just this bumbling droid leader always falling short of victory because he's just not smart or strong enough 🤦🏻‍♂️ I wish they'd focused more on making him just an unstoppable killing machine with very little other emotions. Then his downfall could be more based from his propensity for battle. He fails because a true warrior has no place as a leader. A warrior cares not about victory overall and not about self preservation. A warrior who cares about finding the one opponent who can best them. Make him just a bit too focused on killing Jedi and that costs him some tactical victories the overall hurt their efforts in the war.. for example maybe he fucks up by refusing to recall his troops and instead pursuing a fight against a powerful Jedi. In the end he wins his trophy but he loses his units and the count is pissed AF lol. A true warrior like him would be so caviler with droid lives he'd be far too willing to sacrifice them for his own glory in battle. In my opinion a real warrior is without the kind of lack of integrity that wins a war like that. You can't fight a galactic droid war with honor. You're already using technology as soldiers and your superior production skills to keep control of the conflict. Only a truly heartless cold calculating commander could use this to it's full potential. You have a near infinite army of heartless killing bots that don't question orders or morality. To command them like such is to arrive at the fullest potential. A commander and army devoid of feelings would be the ultimate military. Not afraid to loose tactically when needed. Not afraid of dishonor or sacrificing troops or sacrificing a victory. A fully connected hive mind military with only the overall goal in mind. It doesn't matter what it takes as long as in the end victory is achieved within the laid out goal. Ultimately it held back the droid army having living beings in command. Especially when we're talking about people like grievous and ventres and even maul. They're all warriors who allow their emotions to effect their decisions. Evil and ruthless yes but not emotionless. A warrior is different from a great soldier. A soldier follows orders. A warrior cares only about glory through adversity. Willing to risk it all for the glory of a victory of a worthy opponent..

A good man, but yeah, his nostalgia for Flash Gordon shenanigans is a bit obsolete for this day and age.

Yeah, Grievous got hit hard by the nerf bat.

Also counterintuitive to the point of Grievious, being the jedi exterminator. I miss when characters were written to be competent.

they took the nerfs way too far honestly

Windu had to nerf him.

Good thing he fought too much in danger close.

Yeah but a nationalist identity wouldn't have worked well for their long term plans. Grievous didn't give two shits about the Confederacy of Independent Systems, in fact he distinctly hated it, he just considered it a means to an end which is what made him perfect for the job. Once the Confederacy had outlived its usefulness he would've been happy to watch it crumble. Alto probably would've been far less likely to go along with that.

Not to mention that his Nimbus Commandos were one of the few units the Separatists had on par in skill with Clone Commandos. They were foot soldiers but managed to bring down first-generation AT-AT walkers on their homeworld during the war. Stratus himself not only fought a Jedi General with a regular sword but also killed her; then was defeated by her Padawan, but still.

The Sith needed someone the republic feared and hated and who hated the jedi enough to follow their plan. Alto Stratus being loved by his men is rather a disadvantage regarding the Sith and their grand plan.

Apart from the CIS were never meant to win the war, nor did they want someone either to humanise the CIS movement nor that even CIS worlds themselves liked By making Grievous a monster, Shiev could propagandise his death and slaughter

I’d love a prequel show of before he turned into a cyborg, and casual fans wouldn’t know who it was until the end

I absolutely agree!

Sadly Filoni dosent like the chatacter so we will most likly not get that.

nah man, I want a Maul series

@@zekekennedy9180 why not both?

Do you mean to say "iconically?"

@@bluehero-96 Uh, yes. Must have missed that one. I blame autocorrect once again.

I agree. Durge, Asajj, and Grievous are friggin beasts in the 2D series. In 3D, Durge just doesn't exist and Asajj, although got a good redemption arc, was kinda weak, and same with Grievous, although him slaughtering the Night sisters does make up for it.

Yeah but the war machine aspect of the CIS was only possible because of the “puppet master” purposefully making the war as big as possible.

Until they no longer served a use to him, and got shut down.

Nah it's only in the clone wars he looks pretty pathetic. Elsewhere he is always depicted as a force to be reckoned with

I think people are too hard on Lucas, but his decision to make Grevious into coward was the wrong direction to take. Even toddler Ahsoka wasn't even scared of him. Even the inferior Rebels shows had more threatening villains with the Grand Inquisitor, Vader, and Thawn.

I heard a theory that the real greivous was too competent so dooku and palps stuffed him in storage somewhere and found a suitably incompetent replacement lookalike possibly brainwashed to be greivous. The other theory is similarly dooku deliberately hamstrung Greivous and gave him impossible missions and incompetent subordinates not to mention the military structure of thr CIS was a mess from start to finish. Take your pick which I lean towards a combination of all 3

@@shanoncg I've heard that George Lucas explicitly wanted Grevious toned down, so that he wouldn't eclipse Darth Vader as a jedi-killing threat.

@@badluck5647 Dude, are you seriously comparing that kiddie show to The Clone Wars? Vader failed at stopping f*cking Ezra Bridger and Kanan! Where Grievous is able to hold his own against the entire clone army and war hardened jedi masters, Vader, the Grand Inquisitor and Co failed at stopping a tiny rebel group despite having the entire Imperial might at their disposal. The rebels villains are nothing but pathetic.

So maul was the young acrobat Vader, and there is a shadow of anakin in episode one that fore shadows him looking like darth Vader walking away. Count dooku is Vader when he is old, slight movements, leader, and more powerful in the force. And grevious is the robotics embodied in Vader suit. There are actual several seasons in the prequals where the shadow of anakin is darth Vader. Episode one anakin walking away from his mother rhe casts a brief shadow on the wall. There is also one in episode 2 where anakin and padma are standing together and you can see the Vader as the shadow reaching out to her.

Trench was certainly competent enough especially by CIS standards. He unfortunately kept running into Annakin and his plot armor lol

@@lordgod9958 I say again from my primary statement, imagine Trench trained good, and I mean real good, with and electro staff in order for him to stand up almost perfectly against anyone with a lightsaber (of course there’s still the force but many other have stood up to that), I would think that Trench would have more of a competent chance than just strategizing the battles from a ship command deck>>>

You don't have to believe in canon most of disney's canon is trash anyway. I take the parts of disney's canon I like which isn't much and keep all of the original canon.

Compared to disneys pathetic cartoon villains, he is an awesome villain in the clone wars.

It didn't help that he was constantly going against people he couldn't kill (time-line shenanigans) so any apperance he had constantly had him losing. Remove the child rating, and give him targets that aren't plot armored, and I feel we would have seen a far more ruthless and successful villain.

Veamos el lado bueno; Grievous sigue siendo más intrigante e interesante qué Amitage Hux.

I'd say they were better leaders just not what fitted the CIS's purposes. Alto Stratus was a serious nationalist and the CIS was really just intended as a means to an end. Once it had outlived its usefulness it would've been left to collapse and Alto Stratus likely would've had issues with that. Grievous was perfect for this because he didn't care about the CIS, he very much hated it, and would've laughed as it inevitably tore itself in half. Trench was an amazing strategist and absolutely ruthless but he wasn't a combatant he was an admiral. He wasn't the jedi killer that Grievous was and he could be too egotistical for his own good at times. And as for Riff Tamson he was sadistic and loyal to Count Dooku but he was also best suited for undersea warfare so his actual functionality was limited.

Yeah, no one has a more tragic backstory, except for that guy that grew up as a slave, became an ostracized member of an order of space wizards/Buddhist monks, lost his mother and wife in the span of a few years, was tricked into murdering his entire order by an old man in a bathrobe, was beaten by his best friend and burned alive, had to live for twenty years in a wearable Iron Lung as the old man's servant, found his son years later but was unable to bond with him due to his reputation as a monster, and only managed to do so after dooming himself to death. I mean, Grievous is tragic too, don't get me wrong, but Vader's entire life was a giant kick in the balls.

Yeah, at least the filoni version is better than nothing. But I would imagine how grim dark the clone wars would've really been had the legends content been incorpated.

@@merafirewing6591 I'd argue that "nothing" is a better version than what Filoni made. I'd rather have had him not touch Grievous at all in TCW.

@@bouncin2207 yeah he went from a badass jedi killer to getting his fade ran by gungans though they at least gave a reason for the more cowardly grievous with his lungs getting crushed by windu making him way weaker

On the other hand, Trench was mainly a naval officer so his ability to command ground offensives would be questionable at best. Not to mention his express inability to stand face to face against Jedi. It was after all the preferred tactic of the Jedi to use their superior skills and Force power for infiltrating Separatist armies and taking out the commanding officer.

It never helped that Grievous was constantly thrown against people he wasn't allowed to kill. Give him his own series, move the child rating, and pit him against those without plot armor, and I have a feeling we would see the monster return to glory.

That would be an awesome video! Thrawn has to take number one, for sure. Grievous would certainly be on that list, though.

He must have had a bad case of the Fetts when he fought Obi-wan then

@@creed8712 Mace Windu damaged his core with the force.

@@Amadeus8484 Yes this is primarily the reason he wasn't much of a match for Kenobi and also wasn't as effective as he could have been in the clone wars.

@@rmcgowa1987 Lucas also complained that he was overpowered so they nerfed him. Which I thought was stupid, I liked Grievous the way he was.

@@Amadeus8484 Lucas quite clearly nerfed Darth Maul as well he took on both Obi Wan and Qui Gon Gin without breaking a sweat only to lose to Obi Wan because he didn't block or dodge an obvious counter attack?

While I'd love to hear more about her, to me even just the concept of her character sounds like too much of a Thrawn fanfic. Like why does she have to be Chiss AND be doing the same thing as Thrawn. Like if we have to bring in another prominent Chiss to the Star Wars universe, spice it up from "very smart powerful general person" like if she's force sensitive she could have been more Ventress' style of character to contrast the character of Thrawn, not copy it outright

I'd also like to know why an dhow her name doesn't follow conventional Chiss naming structure.

I guess you don't remember episode 3. That was when he was made less than he was in 03. And it was solely because George didn't like that he was a relatable or tragic character. In his view, he didn't want another Vader. Let's be real, if George Lucas wanted Dave Filoni to make Grievous like Genndy Tartakovsky did, he would do it.

The clone wars TV series was clearly told through the lens of Republic propaganda. The clone wars TV series got an entire new generation into Star Wars and continues to do so considering it's literally why my kid likes star wars. The "movie" was 3 semi related episodes stitched together to get kids excited to watch the TV series. Go jerk off to the expertly written OT with superb dialogue another 100 times.

@@marrqi7wini54 It's not about Grievous being an incapable jedi killer though, Filoni made him into an inconpetent commander as well. And he generally depicted the entire war very poorly and unrealistically.

@@bouncin2207 exactly...The real gold is there in the legends books. Notice the Republic's real problems when they couldn't find the CIS leadership as it was so elusive. The Sith Lords conspiring from behind the scenes to end dangerous cults around the Galaxy as well as to unleash old weapons from the Jedi Civil War thousands of years ago. So much gold in the legends that you can tell the authors took their time to make the Clone Wars as dark as it could be. Filoni just made a show for kids and continues to inject the same formula into the current series that aired already.

@@eddieram435 I think your forgetting about the fact that the clone wars series used to be part of old canon the reason Grievous is nowhere near as good in the clone wars series is because of clone wars 2003 where he receives a major injury from Mace Windu. Mace Windu force crushed his lungs that would ruin anyone's effectiveness. It would outright kill most people.

Some civilizations are just like that. Rome lasted about 1,000 years... 2,000 if we include the Eastern Roman Empire... But it also couldn't go more than 10 years without a civil war and politically was an absolute dumpster fire.

Because as much as it was weak, it was also strong. The people would keep reviving and rebuilding the Republic. I suppose the values of the Republic were strong enough to keep the Republic and it's allies stable and loyal.

Since we don’t know the full history of the republic for new cannon it’s hard to say. Legends cannon puts into questions how anything ever got done when at most they had 1,000 years of no galaxy wide war. Of course there was a number of smaller battles and conflicts happening all the time but nothing as big as the Sith war which was basically 7 wars on one planet

Both were canon until disney clone wars Grievous wasn't as effective due to a major injury caused by Mace Windu.

Don't mind either version.

There is also the not too distant possibility that Grievous was tasked with defending the Separatist Council because he could and would also swiftly eliminate them - which Vader later ends up doing - once there was no more need for the Confederacy. That said, in the now Legends novel Outbound Flight, Thrawn used the en masse tactics of a droid force against it to defeat a Trade Federation fleet that included 2 Lucrehulk-class battleships, with only 3 light cruisers and a single fighter squadron through the means of advanced electronic warfare successfully deducing the weaknesses of the back then centrally controlled droid fighters. So if put against Grievous who mainly relied on overwhelming numbers, he would've still won through a similar pattern. To provide a historical comparison, if commanders like Grievous and Pong Krell led like Grant, Thrawn led like Napoleon--- who to this day remains the single most successful military leader of human history.

@@balintkovacs4089 Grievous would not eliminate the CIS council since he was loyal to the CIS cause. If Kenobi failed to kill Grievous, Vader would have to fight him on Mustafar. Grievous did not rely on overwhelming numbers, that's just a big part of how the droid army worked. In fact, his tactics would surprise the Republic because of how effectively he utilized his droids (battle of Hypori for instance), there are many different battle droid types for a reason. Thrawn would win like 6/10 times against Grievous. And comparing Krell to him is nonsense, the guy was not even loyal to the side he fought for.

@@bouncin2207 Your first point is void since the video itself states that Grievous held no love nor loyalty for the cause of the CIS and would've happily watched it burn with the rise of the Empire it if meant he got to kill more Jedi. Relying on overwhelming numbers and making efficient use of the various traits the different droid types had do not exclude one another. One could both capitalise on the overall superior numbers while retaining the tactical value of different units. Having a large force in itself only means you have more room for error and/casualties as they are easier to replace. Motivation aside, it is still fact that Krell and Grievous had a very similar tactical scale approach to most engagements, even if Grievous did do so as part of a more encompassing faction scale strategy. And both of them have a very different commanding style to Ulysses Grant, whose main pillar of tactical decisions was also his awareness of having more troops than the enemy. One thing that people often forget about Thrawn is that he shone the brightest when he had trusting and competent subordinates to work with. As such, being in the command of say, a Chiss fleet would easily tilt the odds in his favour in the decisive majority of cases. But even with a Republic fleet, he would construct his battle plans around unorthodox usage of his forces, against which the droid officers serving under Grievous would prove ineffective, and he isn't the type to personally take charge of every motion of every unit in a battle like Thrawn would-- hence my comparison of him to Napoleon, who also made a prominent point in personally overseeing as many aspects of his battles as possible.

@@balintkovacs4089 The video is wrong. Grievous hated the Jedi and the Republic, he joined the war to bring both of them down. I'm not saying he was some patriot or something and that he would give his life to protect the cause, but his goals aligned with the goals of the CIS, he would not betray them and he would definitely not fight for the Empire that would become even worse than the Republic.

Dooku was a pawn used as a means to an end by an uncaring master only to be discarded when he was no longer useful. Maul was a vicious killer driven by rage, so much that he refused to die even when bisected.

@@CollinMcLean maul was a slave to the dark side. A slave to his master, to his emotions, and to his ego. Dooku was a Jedi who became disillusioned from the Jedi and turned to the dark side. You said dooku was a slave to an uncaring master.. but that doesn't count as a dooku quality because both him and maul served an uncaring master: Palpatine. So many elements of maul, dooku and Grievous apply to Vader. If you put Grievous, Dooku, and Maul together you get Darth Vader.

@@theblasteffect4499that’s true, except I think that the three are all more flexible/ able to move faster than Vader. No offense to Vader, he could fast when he needed to be I guess.

@@kingbubbafatt9945 those Don't affect the symbolism

Dooku - Fallen Jedi Maul - Pure Hatred Grievous - Cruel cyborg with breathing problems

Whatever that fight was i am sure it wouldn't be less than PG 21

Not really he wasn't limited in thought like a t series and could fight somewhat effectively unlike a super tactical droid.

Maul and Vader = Hatred and Anger