It was Unicron. He was using his gravity powers to pull Astrotrain off course. Unicron was manipulating events so that he could create some minions to go after the Matrix.

To get rid of your favorite characters

There's a theory (That I personally believe.) that Astrotrain was in kahoots with Starscream, he just said that he needed to lose some weight so that Starscream had an opportunity to become the new leader, this is proven because Astrotrain is the one placing Starscream's crown on his head. This is even more plausible because the Triple Changers have a reputation for being traitorous.

Actually, the TF Wiki states this and I quote: "flight through zero-gravity space, should not have needed to "jettison some weight" in the literal sense. However, since the ejected Decepticons quickly fall behind Astrotrain instead of floating alongside him, he must still have been accelerating and thus would have needed to burn a greater amount of fuel in order to push a larger payload. Perhaps he should have said "jettison some mass", but then again, just being a spaceship doesn't make him a rocket scientist." Besides, it's not really an error.

I think that Astrotrain was just tired and injured. If we take into consideration that he fought in the battle, was injured and later had to transport all the deception troops back to Cybertron, well, you can understand why he needed less charge. Also, as you said before, the deceptions believed in the survival of the strongest, so he didn't thought that it would be a big deal to sacrifice the injured in his own benefit

I always thought astrotrain was working with starscream. Astrotrain is holding the crown

He doesn't. He's jettisoning mass. He's no scientist, just a space shuttle.

While weight really doesn't exist in the vaccuum of space mass does. And the more mass something has the more energy is needed to accelerate it. And let us not forget that they did just participate in a huge battle.

I think Astrotrain had to jettison some weight for the same reason the Apollo 13 astronauts jettisoned the lunar module. It was a practical reason. He did state that he wouldn't be able to make it back to Cybertron if he didn't.

A shuttle carrying more mass requires more energy. Jettisoning some mass would have been a more accurate, but since the movie's target audience was children, saying weight would make more sense to them. The reasoning for needing to jettison mass could simply be because he was low on energon. The Decepticons had just mounted an all night battle against Autobot city.

I thing Astrotrain was low on fuel. Thanks to that, it coincided perfectly with Starscream's plan to overthrow Megatron.

Starscream probably bribed him with energon cookies

I'm on the Mass Shifting team. Mass shifting must use some energy. The more you shift the more energy is needed. I'm thinking he just didn't have the energy to hold his level of mass shift all the way home. If he ran critically low he would likely have to revert to normal size, jettison everyone, and all would be stranded floating aimlessly through space. (I'm guessing he was struggling to maintain a heading due to the shifting weight of the team members he was carrying?)

I never really thought about it until I became an adult. When I first saw the movie as a fifteen-year-old, it just made sense for the story being told. But him conspiring with Starscream is a great explanation.

It was probably one of starscreams plans to take over megatron as he was injured alot. He saw the advantage.

“Starscream wait... I still function!!” “Wanna bet?” *releases megatron into space* Priceless!!! 2:50

I propose that for each decepticon inside him, he had to mass shift bigger, however beyond a point, that mass shifting means a constant energy drain. Normally not an issue, but it is now after the fight they just were in which did last quite a while.

It would've been funny if Astrotrain said _Jettison some deadweights_ since this would be him calling the nearly dead Decepticons as expendible bots😂

The real question is how did he not yell at them for fighting and him and how he was able to support devastators weight is what I want to know

He has both practical and conspiring reasons in throwing out some weight out in space.

It more likely during the battle at Autobot City Astrotrain used most of his energy fighting the Autobots. How much he have left is unknown but probably have at least or less than 50% also remember in some episodes he used up almost all his energy to carry the Decepticons to a planet

Woo, an episode dedicated to the choo choo boy! I have always thought that he and Starscream had a deal to do that. Star had a great excuse to thow Megs to the space and be the leader. In return Star would have given Astro a high rank. (One supporting fact is that it's Astro who is placing the crown in the Stars' head. Not for example Soundwave who is highly appreciated by Megs and fairly popular character overall or one of the Seekers even he has worked with them almost all the time.) Too bad that Astro's dream crumbled into pieces like Starscream...

Here's one thing I want to know: why don't the Decepticon jets just fly in space in jet mode? No seriously, if Starscream can fly through space in his F-15 mode, why can't Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Thrust, Dirge and Blitzwing? Heck, later in the movie we see the coneheads fly in space to fight Unicron and Cyclonus fly in space to attack the Autobot shuttles. Huh, maybe if the jets weren't so lazy, Thundercracker and Skywarp may have actually survived the movie. On an unrelated note, I hope that the reissue of Astrotrain next year is in his cartoon dark grey and purple paint scheme. Not only did I mainly grow up with the G1 cartoon reruns in the UK in the 2000s, but he just looks awesome in it and it's a unique use of already used colours on transformers toys.

I had astro trains figure when i was a kid in the 80s. Always loved his loud echoing voice!

It seems to me that he was clearly low on energy and injured,which is why he needed to drop some weight/mass to get back home.

i think Starscream and him had a deal, Astrotrain would become 2nd in command under Starscream. also you would think Megatron would have told Astrotrain NOT TO FIGHT in the battle of Autobot City as he was the Con's only way off of the planet.

To be fair, Arcee actually shot him in the train wheel in the movie. So yes, he was injured as the wheel was also in his wing in his shuttle mode. But, Astrotrain was always scheming for power until Galvatron killed Starcream. He was just as bad as Starcream in that regard.

Why did he need to lose some weight??... the plot demands it, that's why.

5:10 Astrotrain dabbed before it was cool.

Thinking about it some more, it does make some sense. The Decepticons weren't floating around inside Astrotrain, which means he must have artificial gravity. That means that the Decepticons inside him would not have been weightless.

Astrotrain is the Best Triple Changer

I always just thought it was about power:weight

Astrotrain needs more spotlight

So, “weight” wouldn’t matter in space, yeah. But mass does, and the more mass anything has, the more energy it takes to transport it. If that that vehicle wants to go faster with that weight, that’s even more energy needed. The Decepticons were all low on Energon as it was at that point, and Astrotrain was the only one exerting increasing feats of effort during their travel back. Now, he does say that they need to jettison weight, but you could always say that Astrotrain simply misspoke or simplified what he needed done so the other Decepticons would understand. Now, there could have been other solutions. Each of the Decepticons could have donated part of their remaining energon to Astrotrain in order to complete the voyage, or Starscream, the Coneheads, Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, Ratbat, and Blitzwing could have flown under their own power from that point, leaving the injured Decepticons and those unfit for space travel onboard Astrotrain. We know that the Decepticon keys could fly through space, as Starscream was shown doing so in Revenge of Bruticus, and the movie itself showed that the flying cassettes could do the same. However, what happened in the end was Astrotrain had a logistical issue due to the reckless nature of their retreat, and Starscream immediately pounced on it as a way to abandon Megatron, knowing the other Decepticons would be too desperate to return to Cybertron to risk keeping Decepticons on board who very well may have died anyway.

I love Astrotrain

I always thought mass shifting and leaving earths atmosphere used up a lot of Astrotrain's remaining energon and carrying all that weight he calculated that he'd lose rocket thrust before they reached cybertron meaning they'd end up drifting through space like megatron did after he was given the boot. Tbh I never thought about it very deeply that the vacuum of space might be less affected by the weight he was carrying as that's more of an issue when gravity is a factor. Hmmm now I'm hoping a rocket scientist can weigh in on the comments section and say for sure if it would require the same quantity of energy for a fully loaded shuttle to travel through space as a lightly loaded one.

I love Astrotrain; he’s my absolute favorite! He’s done more for the Decepticons than they’d ever admit.

I always assumed that he needed to drop some mass in order for him to accelerate to a high enough speed to land before he ran out of energy. Bearing in mind that even when not using energy to thrust astrotrain has to use energy to maintain his own functions and flight controls, so if that passive drain exhausts him mid-flight then they will never be able to adjust course or land.

Cool video! Astrotrain was always my favorite triple changer!

I never took A-train's bid(s) for power too seriously. In "The God Gambit," I read it was supposed to be - naturally - Megatron fooling the natives. But because Astro's toy had just been released, they substituted him for Megs in a bid for maximum exposure. (Because Starscream taking orders from ANYONE besides Megatron was a ludicrous notion THEN, and NOW.) As for the movie, they needed to make a fast getaway after the battle, and it was in Astrotrain or no one! He simply wasn't made to carry the CRUX of the Decepticon army. (Thus, I don't believe they arrived at the Autobots' shuttle within him. After all, THEY certainly weren't hurting for resources in 2005!) I'm speculating, but---minor battle damage, being low on fuel, overcrowding...perhaps all of that led to his request to "lighten their burden." As for Devastator forming inside of him... Ah, go chew on a microchip! 😉

I think it was a matter of navigation. If Astrotrain ran out of fuel, he might have drifted through space aimlessly forever. Thus he needed to lower the mass onboard to enable him to make the course corrections necessary to ensure they actually arrived at Cybertron rather than missing it.

Astrotrain was still using his engines to accelerate. And probably needed to change direction. The extra mass meant more energy to do so. Granted if his engines stopped he would fly at the same speed in a straight line barring running into debris or gravity wells. But with the rocking around inside. I don’t see a smooth flight to actually reach cybertron.

Funny. I was just watching this scene yesterday and was wondering why Astrotrain would need to jettison some weight.

And yet another case of Megatron forgiving treason for no logical reason.

Yes, I've always thought it was option 3, the fuel needed to also land on Cybertron (him not having enough energon, given the added weight/mass). Nice breakdown of the possibilities.

What got me was how Astrotrain and Cosmos grows to carry other much larger Autobots and Decepticons... It almost reminds me of Doctor Who's Tardis

Astrotrain just got lost on the way back to Cybertron, but he was too embarrassed to admit it to anyone, so he distracted everyone and stirred up a squabble to keep them from noticing. Starscream probably knew it, but he still wasn't about to pass up an excuse to evict Megs.

I'd say he's under continual acceleration, just like ships in the Expanse. Maybe his Cybertronian propulsion tech is so good running thrusters is a smaller drain than just continuing onboard sensors and life support (whether or not they should need it, there's definitely air present, otherwise nothing to carry the sound of voices); thus he has to make it back to Cybertron in the time window achieved by continuous thrust. When he realizes he's not making the progress needed to get them there as functioning robots, he says he needs to jettison some weight. (That he means mass is well understood by almost everyone, I think) Boom.

Maybe Astrotrain worried the inevitable infighting would damage his insides.

No matter how old I get this stuff still puts a smile on my face thank you

Off topic but Siege toys that they should make in the future: Autobots: Wheeljack Arcee Hotrod Springer Roadbuster Kup Brawn Windblade Bumblebee (they might just do his cybervertron mode and cliffjumper's in the studio series) Decepticons: Swindle Onslaught Brawl Vortex Blastoff (And they would combine into Bruticus) Blitzwing Thundercracker Skyworp Slipstream Acid storm Nova storm Ramjet Thrust Astrotrain

Pretty sure it's the practical one. Though considering how he and Starscream got along he might also have conspired with him. I tend to see it that way.

Great video RP it was nice to learn a lot about Astrotrain here.

You do realize that Astrotrain did have artificial gravity inside of his shuttle mode. The more Decepticons inside him, the more energy it would cost to maintain that gravity. And he can't just turn off the gravity inside of himself while at high velocity flight, or everyone inside of him would be thrown backwards and be crushed by the G-force of his momentum. So yeah... To me it makes perfect sense that he would want to get rid of extra weight inside of him...

Man, I freaking LOVE this channel. Great content man!

Maybe Decepticons just aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and thought getting rid of weight would help? Or maybe they just planned to throw the damaged Decepticons out all along.

We see him *literally* place the crown on Starscream. Seems reasonable to assume it was figurative as well.

Thank you for making this, I have always wondered this.

So Megs could get over to Unicron to become Galvy... lol

here's my theory: as we can see all of the decepticons have no problem in standing on astrotrain, even when they where fighting, so he probably had some gravity stabilizers or something, so it was probably pulling him down, also the battle where he probably got injured, and the thruster got probably damaged

Astrotrain is a cool triple changer:).

(Sorry for old comment spam but I've been catching up on vids I missed) I never thought about the Starscream angle, I guess I never paid attention to who the crown-bearer was. Looking back on it now, the "power conspiracy" makes the most sense. After all, even back then I did think it was funny that with all the Decepticons fighting for it, the one who wasn't fighting (Starscream) won and the other guys had to blow the trumpets. Backroom handshakes seems the best reasoning.

Jettison some weight or I'll never make it to Cybertron! Fellow decepticons! Astrotrain has requested that we lighten our burden. In that case I say it is survival of the fittest. Do I hear a second on that? Aye! And against? Nay! The ayes have it! - Get! Make room for others! - Don't! Oh, how it pains me to do this. Wait... I still function. Wanna bet? Starscream! Well, as Megatron has, how shall we say, departed, I nominate myself as the new leader. Wait, the constructicons formed Devastator, the most powerful robot. We should rule! Soundwave superior. Constructicons inferior. Who are you calling inferior?! Nobody would follow an uncharismatic bore like you! Hey, nobody calls Soundwave uncrassimatic! Yeah, let's kick tailgate! Constructicons unite! No way!

More or less I think Astrotrain realizing he was injured and low on energon forced his servo to lighten the burden on a funny note imagine while the Decepticons were fighting over who should rule I think Astrotrain should have said "STOP SQUABBLING OR NO ONE WILL MAKE IT TO CYBERTRON"

Maybe he had some life support systems but with than many of them he was being drained of energy

Astrotrain was always one of my favorite G1 transformers. Also he's one of the best Cons in TF Earth Wars. Though personally I do not like any iteration of him being given a bullet train/Cybertronian train mode. Most often it looks like one of the unofficial mid-transformation modes. I hope the 2020 will fix that. I love the fact you brought the Apollo 13 incident. Though if I could broaden this point, Astrotrain could also have too little energy to properly manouver in space. While there is no gravity or friction in space, there is momentum and to adjust his trajectory he needs to fight against his current momentum.

I just love how Astrotrain asks them to jettison weight to make the trip easier, only for the rest of the Decepticons to star fighting inside. "Guys! This isn't helping!"

Unicron may have his own gravity, though I don't remember seeing him when the Decepticons were flying by.

I love the triple changers.

What's even more incredible is that Astrotrain transformed with other transformers inside his train mode to space shuttle mode.

I've got a question, why did the lasers, the Autobots and Decepticons shot at each other, on the animated series, deflect off and not penetrate their armor? Yet we see in the animated movie, the Decepticons shot some Autobots when they arrived on the Ark, and killed them with one shot!

Gravity. Without enough energy , Astrotrain might not be able to to produce enough thrust to escape the gravity of any planets or suns or other celestial bodies in the way of them and Cybertron.

RodimusPrimal if you can utilize logic and create theory to what Astrotrain was attempting to do when he said this action needed to be done. Could you come up in the future with theories how after Galvetron was killed in the movies, how he could be brought back in the next movie as Megatron? Seems to me that Paramont studios and director Michael Bay just did not care about continuity errors. Only true fans hated and had problems with that error and many more that were committed in that series before the new and latest Bumblebee was release on Dec 2018 in theaters.

Nice job on this transformers discussion video.I love Astrotrain and I wish he was in the bay films. Good job on this!!!

You have to keep accelerating steadily if you want to get around in space at a decent rate, More Weight always takes more to accelerate...

I cant wait for the reissue of Astrotrain!! Awesome video!

I love your videos! They're so informative,cool, and education ! We get to in some ways see the science behind transformers ! Never stop please !

I really like your videos, RodimusPrimal. I watched a lot of them because they are so interesting, and the way you explain is great. Keep it up! =)

Keep up the good work you are doing great

I think it’s a little of everything. Great Stuff!

There is no weight in space, so it has to be mass. There is only weight when gravity affects an object's mass and pulls it towards the source of gravity. That's why things on the Moon WEIGH only 1/6th than on Earth. I feel that it's best that Astrotrain was low on energy after the battle of Autobot City and knew that he didn't have enough fuel or energy to push the amount of mass inside of him. That's why he said, "Or I'll never make it to Cybertron." The theory of Unicron manipulating things so that Megatron would be ejected to him is a little far-fetched. Space is a really big place and the chances of Megatron and the other injured Decepticons drifting towards him are pretty slim.

After your history lesson about Apollo 13, combined with the likelyhood of him being low on Energon and/or damaged, I think he meant that he wouldn't be able to make reentry into Cybertron.

I always assumed that he needed to continually expend energy remaining enlarged, and was gonna run out before they'd ake it, and so needed to shrink. Thus needing to jettison some "dead" weight.

Nice vid man really cool discussion

Keep them vids on the go great channel 👍👍👍👍

Scientifically speaking, the push power of the space shuttle is affected by the weight

DAMN GOOD point Rodimas Primal! Never thought of it!

Saw a comment stating that unicron used his gravity to pull astrotrain. This could very well be true since unicron states the he's summoned megatron, which means he's played his cards to bring megatron to himself

Simply because he would waste to much energon carrying them all.

i love G1 Astrotrain. Hope they reissue him with the original series colors but same modes. The purple train is so awesome and looks like a classic locomotive. I bought Astrotrain from Ebay a year ago for like 20 dollars and he's still one of my most precious transformers

I thought space was weightless

It did seem like there was artificial gravity inside the shuttle so maybe that lead to the cause of astrotrains need to lighten his load

He had a pre-arranged pact with Starscream. It’s obvious - he CROWNS Starscream for what is likely a role as his second in command. Starscream and Astrotrain counted on most (if not all) of the Decepticons to fall for their “jettison some weight” ruse.

Because it's not about weight, it's about mass. If he has more mass, he needs more fuel to accelerate the same amount, meaning he needs more energon.

I think it was a matter of Delta V, or change in velocity. Astrotrain may not have had the fuel/energy to make the burn necessary to reach Cybertron and enter it's Sphere of influence, assuming the transformers universe is still subject to the laws of Newtonian physics. The easiest way to increase a spacecraft's delta V is to shed unnecessary mass, and your average Decepticon probably weighs a good 15-20 tons or so. I can't recall the formula for calculating Delta V, but dumping the dead and dying would have significantly increased Astrotrain's Delta V, allowing him to make the necessary course corrections with less fuel.

You got me on him being not the brightest of the bunch.

I still have my old Astrotrain, although the time consumed a bit its plastic parts, it's still the coolest of them all!

Plot-friendly answer: The amount of mass Astrotrain is carrying matters a lot while accelerating and decelerating. When the wrecked 'cons are tossed out, we observe them falling back behind astrotrain instead of just drifting alongside him. Also, Astrotrain's main rocket nozzles are lit, which would not be necessary if he had reached cruising speed in deep space. These two observations support the idea that he is still accelerating at this point. Furthermore, at some point he will have to decelerate in order to land safely on his destination instead of smashing into it. In order to overcome inertia, both of these changes in velocity require more energy if he is carrying more mass. Incidentally, the remaining robots throwing each other around afterwards isn't helping Astrotrain's fuel efficiency either, since the constantly shifting mass distribution means that he will have to keep making small course corrections every time someone or something moves from one side to the other. More likely answer: The target audience is elementary school children. Kids (mostly) have little to no grasp of rocket physics, but they know what it's like to try to move something heavy. Also, I guess Blast-Off was at the grocery store that day or something.

Has anyone else noticed that during the scene of the power struggle with in Astrotrain who would be the new leader; you can see Astrotrain within himself. Look closely at the scene.

Here is another thing i noticed that show how power hungry Starscream is. It have been shown several times before the movie that the seekers is capable of space flight. Starscreams have traveled through space and in the 3-part mini series where they manage to open a space bridge so that Cybertron can get close to earth you see that the seekers is flying between earth and Cybertron carrying a human and energon cubes. So instead of actually throwing the wounded out Starscream could have ordered the other seekers to transform and fly beside Astrotrain to lighten his load.