Why Would You Ever Use CONVENTIONAL Milling???

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Why Would You Ever Use CONVENTIONAL Milling??? | Climb vs Conventional

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Күн бұрын

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#CNC #Machining #Machinist

Пікірлер: 340

@NateAIM 2 жыл бұрын

When cutting plastics, you'll get less fuzz on the part with conventional. Also, you can get straighter side walls (less taper) with conventional. I don't use it often but it can be useful at times.

@florianbertram9451 2 жыл бұрын

this

@imadequate3376 2 жыл бұрын

HDPE and UHMW love a conventional cut.

@thrivesuffer4787 2 жыл бұрын

You dont want to climb mill with a vacuum chuck either lol

@jmmywyf4lyf 2 жыл бұрын

I own a plastics fabrication shop, and also use strictly conventional cutting on my CNC.

@LittleQueue 2 жыл бұрын

Can confirm.

@michaelslee4336 2 жыл бұрын

Was in a shop with a very experienced fellow machinist on a CNC mill and a was getting poor tool life from cutting some laser cut parts. I told him to conventional mill them and he was horrified at the thought but ended up getting 4 times the tool life. Sometimes it’s just better to get under the hard skin rather than crunching onto it.

@platinumsky845 8 ай бұрын

That's one of the exceptions to the rule, and a common mistake not realizing that digging underneath the hardened surface avoids wear more than smacking into it from the beginning. Same thing with plasma cut parts as well.

@michaelslee4336 8 ай бұрын

@@platinumsky845 I remembered another one where I climbed and regretted it. Some long finned alum heat sinks were saw cut and needed trimming to length, the first fin that the end mill touched just went ba-doing and bent over. Duh, I just should have seen that would happen. Idiot. Conventional after that worked fine.

@0rnery 8 ай бұрын

My thought through the entire video. Always best to rough out scaled up stock with conventional milling, unless you're not concerned about teeth chipping.

@platinumsky845 8 ай бұрын

@@michaelslee4336 damn, I can imagine that sound 😬 not relates to climb/conventional milling but had something similar happen when a company I worked for was trying to kill copper components for an EV, it has a heat sink built in and we ran a few of those parts just fine, the customer asked for the heat sink to change a bit to better match air flow and when we milled the new parts the cutter grabbed the new fins, pulled the part from the vice, and threw it against the wall of the enclosure hard enough to make a small dent 🤯

@darkracer1252 4 ай бұрын

tell him he needs to get the backlash solved in his mill. (that's why his tool life is better with conventional milling)

@dzarren 2 жыл бұрын

2:23 isn't strictly true, even in climb milling, the flutes of the cutter still cause cause upwards cutting forces on the part. Just because you are feeding in a different direction does not mean the cutter is going in the opposite direction. The cutter is still turning in a right-handed fashion, thus the flutes on a conventional end mill still will exert an upwards force. The thing about pushing work pieces downwards is only true when the cutter has a LEFT HAND SPIRAL, but still cuts right handed. That is, it still rotates and cuts in the conventional right handed direction, but the flutes of the end mill have a left hand helix to them. This is the only scenario resulting in downwards cutting forces on the work.

@br1ckify 2 жыл бұрын

i was right about to comment just the same, thank u

@Pow3llMorgan 2 жыл бұрын

They're called compression bits/mills and are fantastic for some applications in plastics and wood. Because of their downward cutting force, they can leave a cut with almost no burr at all.

@peterfitzpatrick7032 2 жыл бұрын

@@Pow3llMorgan actually compression bits have left hand spiral flutes on one end of the cutting edge & RH on the other end... & are for giving cleaner edges ... I have only ever heard of compression cutters for routing wood to prevent tearout , never heard of metal-cutting & the fact that the swarf is "compressed" into the centre seems like a bad situation for milling metals... 🤔

@Sak-zo1ui 2 жыл бұрын

What about heat input? Does the input become higher with left hand spiral?

@thatdrillguy7889 2 жыл бұрын

There's upcut routers (right hand helix), downcut routers (left hand helix) and compression routers (LHH for top half of flute length and RHH for bottom half). Knowing the difference is especially helpful in routing or side milling laminated materials where your flute helix direction can separate the layers (in something like plywood or carbon fiber). Helix angle is axial rake and rake is related to cutting efficiency. A positive axial rake is right hand helical in a right hand cutting tool and is more efficient at cutting. A left hand helical tool is negative rake and is a less effective cutting action....just like an old school hand ground HSS lathe tool for steel would be ground or held negative. It protects the cutting edge, but is less effective. The LHH is used for a different reason in these downcut and compression routers.

@markjones4186 2 жыл бұрын

I work in aerospace and we are using 30,00rpm spindles with 150hp milling large structural components. We have went back to using conventional when finishing. Using a 1/2" dia 4 flute we are taking 1" doc or up to a 10:1 wall thickness to height ratio. Using conventional cutting we are able to feed at over 400ipm and not have these thin flanges push off enough to be a problem.

@Lokomart 2 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a bad ass piece of equipment bro!

@gooblio 2 жыл бұрын

What machine has 150hp and a 30,000rpm spindle?

@markjones4186 2 жыл бұрын

@@gooblio There are quite a few actually. As far as I know they are all designed for aluminum aerospace parts. The two that I am most familiar with is from Bavius and Starrag. These high horsepower / high speed spindle machines normally have spindles manufactured from either Kessler or Fischer which have actually created a 240hp spindle, but I've never programmed one of those. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nLF9pdiKqLfViIk.html

@rossilake218 5 ай бұрын

I would love to see that spindle rip the Alum off the part.

@theupscriber65 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video. I'm an old toolmaker and we used conventional almost always on our manual mills because we didn't have zero lash lead screws so the part would try to jump forward during climb milling. Nice to see the technical advances that allow the option to climb mill.

@gaiustacitus4242 6 ай бұрын

Conventional milling machines do not incorporate ball screws and preloaded ball nuts, so conventional milling is still necessary on such machines.

@jacorral5788 2 жыл бұрын

Conventional cutting works better in foam in my experience. Climb milling tends to push the foam into the part since the foam is pretty compliant, leaving a subpar finish. Conventional leaves a nicer finish in the foams I've cut, since it's peeling the foam away rather than compressing it in.

@seanallanhaythornthwaite3747 2 жыл бұрын

Conventional cutting was used on a manual Millers climb milling on these old miller's will pull your part in or through

@jdrevenge 2 жыл бұрын

Bingo.

@Peteeboy2011 13 күн бұрын

Yup crash

@karlomoharic3992 2 жыл бұрын

It depends on application and machine used. Good machinist know the difference and know how to use that to their advantage

@X197ToPlay 2 жыл бұрын

thats the only true thing here!

@thegregdavieschannel 2 жыл бұрын

Climb is definitely a more efficient way to remove stock, however if you can do conventional milling on a return stroke it could be faster overall than a non cutting return pass with positioning move as shown at the start of this video.

@stensonmccray3234 8 ай бұрын

The times I use conventional over climb is when cutting something that has a hard scale on it. When conventional milling, the cutter cuts underneath the scale first. Climb milling makes contact with the scale first every rotation resulting in chipped inserts.

@turbolevo8703 2 жыл бұрын

Conventional milling is useful for loading out backlash in knackered machines and for balancing forces in parts that move/flex whilst machining.

@ferrumignis 2 жыл бұрын

Came to write the same thing, on older worn machines you take a big risk of a broken cutting tool and ruined workpiece with climb milling.

@iamthepeterman54 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I have two other thoughts that might help someone else out too. 1 - the conventional approach to case hardened material also works amazing for flame cut profiles. Use a heavy stepover and get under the slag in virgin material and pop off the slag. Then climb cut once the slag is gone. Great for weldments. 2 - I once made some parts with a 10” diameter bore by 4 inches deep that needed less than .001 taper walls and a critical diameter. Taper was a serious concern and the material was a hardened 15-5 stainless. I ended up using a 1 in dia Fraisa 11 flute finisher and climb cut to size using air only (CAT40 spindle). The walls were tapered by .0015 or so. Then I ran a conventional cut spring pass. What that will do is suck the button of the endmill into the cut a straighten the wall. Then did a final ghost pass climb to fix any smear and ended up with walls with .0002 taper. Amazing. Real life saver to learn that trick from Fraisa apps.

@brianmiller3704 2 жыл бұрын

Conventional milling is also used when milling brittle materials. Brittle materials typically can't withstand the high cutting forces exterted as the cutter leaves the material, causing fracturing and chipping of the base material. I learnt this milling PVC.

@martynbrooke9464 2 жыл бұрын

I started my apprenticeship in 1973. Small company with more backlash than you would believe. One M/C had over 3/8” (10 mm) of backlash. If you climb milled you always snapped the cutter unless you were very quick to disengage the feed. Visiting a small company last year not much had changed. If not a CNC m/c ask somebody as not everybody has the best tech to do a job.

@ferrumignis 2 жыл бұрын

I'm a bit younger than you but had a similar experience. Went to an engineering college with some pretty abused and worn machines. Climb milling was strongly discouraged because of the risk of breaking tools, ruining workpieces and worst of all having workpieces flung out of the big horizontal mills.

@FLMKane 3 ай бұрын

I worked in a racecar shop that had on old taiwanese lathe. Damn thing had an inch and a half of backlash

@ryansoltwedel1041 2 жыл бұрын

I was at school for a manual mill class and started working on my first project. Not knowing the difference between the two, I climb milled a part and noticed the tool move, along with the digital readout. I had absolutely no clue what was happening until I did some research and figured out that the machine wasn’t rigid enough for it. I genuinely thought I broke the machine because of a .050 pass

@luukdeboer1974 2 жыл бұрын

A milling tool shattered every now and then in my metalworking classroom, and I destroyed one too

@DairyAir 2 жыл бұрын

I’ll never forget the demo for why you don’t conventional and climb cut on a manual machine when I went to TC. An old WWII era horizontal mill with an 1 1/4” hog climb cutting 1” deep and that thing exploded!

@gaiustacitus4242 6 ай бұрын

I had a large cutter explode while climb cutting. It was like a hand grenade going off and threw razor sharp metal shards all over the place. I felt one shard touch my hair as it passed by (and my hair was short). I looked behind me and saw the shard embedded in an industrial steel window frame. The grim reaper missed me by a fraction of an inch.

@DairyAir 6 ай бұрын

@@gaiustacitus4242 Yep… you learn to duck… or else… shops are much safer, now days. It took a lot more HP to cut with those, at low rpm… lotsa potential energy, when something breaks…

@MawoDuffer 2 жыл бұрын

Working on a Bridgeport mill, I was taught to rough conventional, finish with the climb. But you have to understand depth of cut and speed affects it a lot. I rough cut about .050 at a time and finish cut .005. This is with a .750 end mill at 700 rpm. On my finish cut, I go back and forth a few times which might be called a spring pass. If I tried to climb mill .050 on a Bridgeport I think the cutter would keep pulling on the backlash of the table. Maybe it would work fine with a new Bridgeport, but with these older machines, you need to use different techniques to get them to hold thousandths. With a rigid new cnc mill, you simply take cuts differently than on an old manual mill.

@quickdrawmcgraw4394 2 жыл бұрын

So you side step .050 fir roughing? Is that your max side step when usung the full length of the endmill? Hopefully i worded this question correctly.

@jackwillson8099 5 ай бұрын

Your Exactly right manual machine bridgeport mill & lathes ,machinist for 35 years

@rossilake218 5 ай бұрын

When i first started on the BP, cutting Alum on a climb with a roughing mill. I learned fast how back-lash works. Damn! That was a sharp mill.

@jackwillson8099 5 ай бұрын

@@rossilake218 nothing like have 0.050 back lash in a Bridgeport lol

@jamesnizzy9774 2 жыл бұрын

Always wanted to know this, I've been taught about conventional and climb milling but conventionally milling has always been avoided. Nice to understand the applications of it!

@theotherJarvisx51 6 ай бұрын

good to see someone who has some understanding of the two. mill scale on mild steel is always conventional until part is clean.

@NotDerekSmart 2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes cutting conventionally with larger diameter tools with straight flutes or teeth like woodruff mills helps guide and stabilize the cutter.

@owievisie 2 жыл бұрын

You would like to do conventional on plastics as well, because the plastic moves a lot, and with conventional you pull the plastic into you cutter, instead of pushing it away

@brandons9138 2 жыл бұрын

Nope. Conventional cutting adds too much heat to the equation. Plastic's relative soft nature also make conventional cutting a bad idea is because it increases tool/cutter pressure actually pushing the part away from the cutter.

@henryhbk 2 жыл бұрын

So useful. Maybe one of the most useful videos you guys have put out in a while. I mean I love the CNC apron watching a tool the size of my forearm blowing into hard steel as much as the next guy, but I way prefer these educational videos that bust myths

@angrydragonslayer 2 жыл бұрын

basically what i remember except for the case hardening, that's a really good tip and i can see it saving several endmills, even in a single job.

@rossilake218 5 ай бұрын

I'm hobby guy on a BP in the Garage. I like to climb on alum, plastics are a different story. The good thing is i can "TEST" cut and look at surface condition. 👍

@davidfarmer 2 жыл бұрын

Conventional milling can be useful if you material is flexing, for example, thin wall parts, however in order to effectively conventional mill your tool must be very very sharp, and its ideal to have a higher ipt, to make initializing the cut easier.

@joels7605 2 жыл бұрын

Spectacular video. I'm just a home gamer, and I've never understood why conventional milling produces such poor surface finish on some materials. This is the best description I've ever heard. Thank you.

@rossilake218 5 ай бұрын

Get out there an buy a $1500 Bridgeport, put it in the corner of moms garage and learn. Lots of great YT vids. Get out of the basement!

@markmall7142 2 жыл бұрын

Everything said here is correct.But 5 extras points. 1)Climb milling extends cutter life 2 fold ,even more denpending on circumstances. 2)Ive climbed 57/58 Rc without issues so i would still recommend climb. 3)coventional does induce less pressure on work pieces so as you said thin extrusions,unsupported nylons and plastics can benefit from this stance. 4) I would still conventional mill with slitting saws. 5) Like you said it comes from manual machinists struggling with grabbing but one can overcome it . Thanks for the channel and this insights shared.

@johnhewitt6965 2 жыл бұрын

Best video ever, hands down, thank you my friends. Most information per syllable since E=MC^2

@SirFlibbertyJibbit 2 жыл бұрын

Found out the hard way plenty of times that tall thin features on parts need to be done with a conventional cut. Most of the time I'd do them in a high number of steps and towards the last couple of steps the cutter would just grab and pull the part into the cutter. Using a conventional cut it almost seems to push the part away slightly due to that shallow entry cut.

@murrayedington 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting point about machining surface hardened materials (better done in conventional) - hadn't twigged that. There's always something to learn - many thanks!!

@giuliobuccini208 2 жыл бұрын

I embraced climb milling from the beginning just because... I had the feeling/sensation that the tool was working better. I always had some shivers by thinking at the tooth rubbing the surface in a convention milling... brrrr! Now I know from comments here that conventional milling can be useful in case of thin walls and soft material like foam. That's a good advice.

@spaceage69 2 жыл бұрын

extra long cutters is a good thing to use conventional cutting climb milling pulls the cutter into the part

@georgespangler1517 2 жыл бұрын

I have a 50s Sheldon horizontal mill and have always read not to climb mill,, but my mill motor rotation is conventional and I agree with you just makes sense it's trying to lift peace and pile up chips in it's path

@AllForTheGame 2 жыл бұрын

You should use climb milling for walls, thats a must. And use conventional for pocketing/ floor machining. This is for best finishes.

@OctaneWorkholding 2 жыл бұрын

Great explanation! It is good to understand the benefits of both, sometimes the smallest changes make all the difference.

@can_with_beans 7 ай бұрын

As someone who's ever only seen CNC machines do work, but never actually learned about the process, this was very informative. Great work explaining everything in a super digestible way 👍

@NielMalan 2 жыл бұрын

I'm not even nearly a machinist, but as a scientist this video warms my heart. It doesn't just propagate dogma, but it gives a reasoned account of why climb milling is superior. Of course the comments show that not everyone agrees, but because the video is so clear, the comments too are reasoned responses.

@grappler185 2 жыл бұрын

Best video you guys have put out in a long, long, long time.

@bozejcity 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice video. A shop owner where i work, used to program cnc before he hired me. He is an old school guy (retired now) and he used to do conventional milling in 316 ss all the time. He was really suprised when i started cutting with climb cut, telling me its a wrong way to approach 316SS. But, when i showed him a surface finish he said its good for finish cut only. Combining both, climb and conventional, for roughing seemed to be the best. 3:03 This video made me thinking maybe the old guy was right. 316SS is a perfect example of case hardening

@pcsmachineworks 2 жыл бұрын

316 stainless is extremely prone to work hardening, therefore climb milling would be generally preferred. When milling, there is a minute amount of displacement that happens before the cutter actually bites into the material. This compression of the material is working it into a hardened state, conventional milling exaggerates this effect substantially over climb milling. Once you break the outer crust of the raw material it is substantially softer, if you have ever worked with rolled plate you would know exactly what I mean. Climb mill all of the work hardenable grades unless there is a specific feature that requires the stability of conventional milling.

@pcsmachineworks 2 жыл бұрын

I should also add that tooling choice has a big impact on the method chosen, if your using flexible flimsy HSS tools then they might benefit from the stability of conventional milling. HSS also generally has sharper cutting edges than carbide allowing it to dig in and not hammer on the material as much. This could also apply to extended reaches and long tools in deep pockets where there may be some flex due to length.

@wendull811 4 ай бұрын

One of our mills at work is a 1970's bridgport knee mill that has been abused for decades. When milling you have to use conventional milling otherwise the cutter will bite into the part and bounce the table resulting in uncontrolled sizes and surface finishes. Managment will not pay to fix it and they won't replace it because it still works.

@murkywaters6294 2 жыл бұрын

Stabilizing the cutter with conventional milling can be very helpful especially with less than 1/2” diameter tools and/or greater than 2xd doc, even in average cutting metals

@bengjerdingen8102 2 жыл бұрын

I use conventional cutting all day long in our plastic shop. Along with standard carbide end mills we use router bits in some cases and most plastics need extremely sharp tooling and need to throw the chip immediately, unless you want a goo ball. Acrylic and Acetals you can climb cut without a problem along with some other stiffer plastics. Conventional milling when machining plastic is the norm.

@thomasmedlin2881 Жыл бұрын

You never cease to amaze me with your depth of knowledge.

@BrilliantDesignOnline 2 жыл бұрын

WOW..the most straight forward discussion I have ever heard about cutting modes. Thank you.

@gaiustacitus4242 6 ай бұрын

Ironically, the example machining in the video demonstrates machining techniques which are contrary to the recommendations.

@Stihl4life 2 жыл бұрын

Yup conventional is great if you are cutting hard scale or harder material it gets under the "bark"

@ferencungvari3089 Ай бұрын

I typically use conventional milling to get around the hardened crust of a stock material, cut by plasma or flame and has a tendency to harden, mainly an issue with alloys, but structural steels can behave like that if it is a thick plate and the plate has no time to heat up, so essentially you get a hardened layer at the cut. these are typically steal bead blasted after flame cut so it is not the slack what is causing the issue. with conventional cutting you essentially make the hard crust break instead of cutting it with every entry of the cutting edge of the tool.

@MegaKaiser7 2 жыл бұрын

I remember reading that conventional helps with long tools and tight corners. We had a lot of programmers that would let 1in cutters climb cut into hard corners of h13 and blow the corners off the inserts.

@NORTHBROOK1978 2 жыл бұрын

I use it on plastic. It makes a better finish on certain parts.

@BPond7 2 жыл бұрын

I do the same thing, especially with Delrin. Always comes out smooth and shiny. 😎

@pmsilvei 2 жыл бұрын

Yes. And I also use conventional when cutting black foam for bottom of shadow boxes. Climbing will not do a clean job.

@josephcampise9950 2 жыл бұрын

Honestly never thought about that. Going to have to try it the next time I cut some

@NORTHBROOK1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@josephcampise9950 I work for a plastic molding/extrusion company. So I'm dealing with pre formed parts. What works well also are single fluted end mills with a downward spiral..

@Vuntermonkey 2 жыл бұрын

I don't run a CNC machine, but this was fascinating. Thanks.

@The50Baker 2 жыл бұрын

I actually just learned something.. I always climb mill anyway.. Just how I was taught. But never explained why. Thanks.

@phuckyocouch9098 2 жыл бұрын

You shouldn't be trusted to make programs for machines if you can't understand what the applications for climb vs conventional are and the benefits of either.

@wattscreates1977 2 жыл бұрын

I’m a visual person, and although I know the difference and benefits of the two types of milling, some people may have a hard time without visual representation. But this is a great topic, and I appreciate you guys! I love what titans stands for!

@codymoreland4496 2 жыл бұрын

I work in wood milling on flat stock sheet mills and 5 axis milling and the direction of cut is very important for finishes. I dont know much about metal so It does sound as if all you would likely want is climb cutting. I use about 80 percent climb cutting and 20 percent conventional. Mostly for finish reasons.

@AmericansWillRise 2 жыл бұрын

I climb to finish, even on manual machines, provided that the table clamp will put reasonable pressure. I may have to rough out, by conventional means, but I'm climbing on finish pass, for sure.

@slayersentience666 2 жыл бұрын

I'm from Quebec in Canada studying as a mechanical engineering tech in college. This course includes conventional and CNC machining, and we never use conventional milling always climb milling only. We were told conventional cutting can have some advantages on a conventional because of screw backlash but that's it's pretty much pointless in CNC because they usually always have anti backlash systems and much higher rigidity.

@larryblount3358 2 жыл бұрын

Great audio. The video seems to show maximum removal rate be going with both climb and conventional cutting (most of the time). An explanation of the versus climb only or conventional only to tool wear, cutting time, etc would be very useful. One of the better videos from your team. More about machining education then other subjects.

@bobbyshaftoe45 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome vid!!! And all in a few minutes! Easily the best practical description I've heard yet, comparing and contrasting conventional & climb.

@aaronmay8951 2 жыл бұрын

“ I like your funny words magic man” This quote from JFK perfectly summarizes what I’m thinking while watching this video, not understanding anything about milling. But I like it

@gooblio 2 жыл бұрын

I've only done conventional milling on some 4140 when a tool broke and the material got work hardened just to remove the work hardened material. Once in over 30 years of CNC milling that I remember.

@cyleleghorn246 7 ай бұрын

I'm gonna say, for a lot of people (not companies) the reason is because CNC costs about 100x more than milling. There are a lot of things cnc can do more easily, but you pay a premium for that. You can learn to do the same on an old beat $500 bridgeport, and then you have more knowledge and skills and have saved a lot of money. Now if customer is paying $5,000 for a part and you already have every machine under the sun, and it's up to you to pick which one to use, this video is for you!

@TITANSofCNC 7 ай бұрын

He is talking about conventional vs climb cut

@dislikebutton1935 2 жыл бұрын

Great simple explanation, thankyou 👏

@Donkusdelux 2 жыл бұрын

A big one if you use climb with conventional milling if you almost can drop the roughing cycle time in half for simple soft parts.

@barrysetzer 2 жыл бұрын

Very true, as you can see in this video! Bi-directional roughing can save a ton of time in certain applications.

@imadequate3376 2 жыл бұрын

Plastics like UHMW and HDPE I climb cut. Its all about the materials, sometimes it's better to climb cut to reduce chip weld.

@skaelring-xj3gq 9 ай бұрын

I use both depending on the situation. If I'm operating a manual mill with a traditional lead screw, I will rough with conventional and finish with climb. On a CNC, I only use climb milling unless I'm machining composites or laminates as climb milling in these materials tends to produce excessive burrs and delamination.

@marcsolorzan9487 2 жыл бұрын

I use both when I'm roughing in a hurry.

@velociraptor5962 2 жыл бұрын

Really interesting. At first I thought it was John Goodman. But, I learnt a lot from you just then. Thanks. 😊

@bumpstart21 16 күн бұрын

Conventional was almost mandatory with manual machines and steel as a precaution. The small amount of backlash was sometimes just enough to allow the cutter take too large bite and turn your operation into a rack and pinion! It probably just carried over from there.

@BenAtTheTube 2 жыл бұрын

I am cutting a shallow slot (in stainless steel), then slightly enlarging it to desired width on the return path. I use conventional milling, because climb milling pushes the material against the edge making a bigger burr. The original slot has both a conventional side on the left and a climb side on the right, so the return path cuts on the original right side to remove (minimize) the larger of the original burrs. (Doing it with climb milling on both sides is not really much different...)

@bravinneff7932 3 ай бұрын

Climb cutting on a manual mill with acme thread screws would (1) pull the workpiece (and your hands) during the cut, and (2) when the cut would first enter, it would take up the slack in the screw and your chipload would instantaneously go much higher than you planned for, often leading to a broken cutter. None of this happens in conventional cutting. Also, tool deflection during climb cutting is away from the workpiece, thereby tending toward making your parts oversize (i.e, you don't blow the dimension). Tool deflection during conventional cutting sucks toward the workpiece, thereby tending toward undersizing your part.

@LPMutagen 7 ай бұрын

My machine has worn ballscrews which aren't worth replacing for the situation I'm in. Climb milling circles are out of round by upwards of 10 thou, conventional milling circles are only out by about 1-2 thou. It's because the cutting loads are always going against the backlash rather than trying to get ahead of it.

@BrassBashers 2 жыл бұрын

I was always told conventional milling was always bad on a CNC machine, unless you are finishing softer materials like brass or aluminum. Some say conventional makes better surface finishes on last passes on these softer metals, I have yet to try it for myself.

@DanielH 2 жыл бұрын

Thank for this information 🙂

@ArnoldsDesign 2 жыл бұрын

I only climb mill on a manual vertical mill if my endmill is at least half the cutter diameter to keep it from getting sucked into the backlash. Even then it can be nerve wracking at the end of the pass. I try to climb mill when possible, and almost always on finish passes. When I was working in the 90's at a local factory, our tool shop cnc programmer, who wasn't a machinist, was having a hard time figuring out why a 1" roughing EM kept pulling into a cut during a full diameter conventional pass in the VMC's. We were machining tool steel spacer plates. Because of this, the finish pass wouldn't clean up, and the finish profile was distorted, full of burrs, and a mess. I tried to explain climb milling to him, but he wasn't getting it. Then I said to him to the effect, "You have ballscrews, use them." To me it was common sense. He thought I was crazy. I tried to explain it to him further, but he just laughed about it, and kept using conventional milling. After I left there, I wondered sometimes if he ever figured it out.

@TheCommo81 9 ай бұрын

Nice video! I use climb milling on everything from steel to acrylic. Always get a nice finish and my end mills last a long time! It's all about speeds and feeds. If you get those right, you'll always end up with a nice finish. conventional on plastic generates a lot of heat. Climb milling plastics evacuates the chips and heat like you said.

@jonathanhahka9939 2 жыл бұрын

When you cut some soft materials, like delrin, and when you use an opposite flute cutter.

@estamnar6092 2 жыл бұрын

"I hope this clears up any confusion..." *me, who knows nothing about any of this*: Nope! Still incredibly satisfying to watch though!

@estamnar6092 10 ай бұрын

Apparently I watched this a year ago. Came down here to make the exact same comment lol... help

@constantinosschinas4503 9 ай бұрын

Also, when your Z axis or tool is not so rigid, you can see the difference in flexing. The one tends to pull the mill in the work, sideways, and the other pushes it out.

@AChicken-sh1gc 8 ай бұрын

the reason for using conventional is because most manual mills have normal drives and not the high precision no play things so there is a good bit of play and thet is compensated for when using conventional but with cnc mills that almost always have those special drives for the axis

@adrianstachowski9422 2 жыл бұрын

Also for very very hard matterials (58hrc or more) or surface hardened steel (f.e. after laser cut) it's sometimes better to cut conventional to prevent tool crack, but it depends on tool type (hss or carbite) and quality. I work in Poland where many companies uses cheap tools or used, sharpened tools and then the conventional milling for hard steels have a point :D It all depends on situation.

@Normjohanson 2 жыл бұрын

I'm sharing this channel with my apprentice 👍

@Tomasso2009 2 жыл бұрын

In CFRps conventional is used in order to prevent the push of material inside the part and, thus, causing damage and delamination.

@apt962 2 жыл бұрын

Great explanation of the two! Cheers.

@jenpsakiscousin4589 11 ай бұрын

Lots of applications for conventional cutting, mostly when finishing. For ex, if you need to remove .0015 or less particularly in ferrous steel it helps the tool suck to the workpiece. Climb cutting will sometimes just glance off and not cut esepecially with long tools. Also some materials get better finishes cutting that way. Back in the day, lol, climb cutting was risky. Today climb cutting is 95% of the time.

@NickCunitz 2 ай бұрын

I use conventional cutting when I have a big chunk I don't want to mill away. I find climbing pulls that chunk or slug into your part but going the other way just kicks off to the side.

@leofernekes343 9 ай бұрын

Super clear and direct information- great video.

@erieschl 2 жыл бұрын

Not sure why this showed up in my algorithm but cool!

@cooper5220 2 жыл бұрын

Both have their place to a good machinist

@azuro1125 2 жыл бұрын

Running heatsinks with thin walls and intersecting cuts works great with conventional milling. With climb milling it becomes an exercise in misery.

@PaulSteMarie 2 жыл бұрын

Backlash compensation in the control isn't going to do anything for the problems with climb cutting on machines that have a lot of backlash. On those machines, when the cutter engages, the slack is closest to the screw. Climb cutting results in the cutter pulling into the work, immediately jumping by the amount of slack. That can break a cutter if there's more than a few thous of slop. Modern CNC machines with ball screws don't have that sort of slop in the mechanics.

@zundappchef 2 жыл бұрын

actualy one of the more important things learn in milling

@Turboy65 9 ай бұрын

It's more of an issue when you have less rigidity and more backlash. It really matters if your mill is a 50 year old Bridgeport, not so much if you're rocking a brand spanking new Heller.

@alishihade4751 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man its what I was surching for

@gaiustacitus4242 6 ай бұрын

If you're cutting metal on a machine tool that uses acme screw threads, then you must use conventional milling to avoid the machine being pulled off location. This problem is solved in CNC machine tools by designs which incorporate ball screws and preloaded ball nuts with opposing tension. Conventional milling remains the best technique for rough machining materials with hard or scaly/abrasive outer surfaces, such as cast iron, hot-rolled steel, and sand castings. Incorporating conventional milling into CNC operations on even easy to machine materials, such as aluminum, can improve efficiency without sacrificing quality of the final surface finish. Many of the modern CNC programming applications automatically generate tool paths which include conventional milling even when these are not desirable. Ironically, the parts being machined in this video are using a combination of conventional and climb milling while the narrator is preaching against the use of conventional milling.

@BecomingOffgrid 2 жыл бұрын

Learn something new every day

@drevil2783 2 жыл бұрын

Brilliant advice.

@nathanthomas8184 2 жыл бұрын

It's all the undesirables thats correct Barry, I did my learning on shaping mach bk in 84 & tooling was All, on Mill ya tool works hard just index it & carry ON, Titan long live TOOL MAKERS

@RedGloveFan 2 жыл бұрын

Great video and explanation! Thanks

@Copesthetic-Aesthetic 3 ай бұрын

Finish pass "climb cut" on conventional knee mill without auto feed. You have the possibility of the tool pulling the table, and handle out of your hand. This is machining 101 folks. "Just a Thought"

@jonathancarter6696 8 ай бұрын

Conventional cutting when machining wood is used to eliminate chipping as you always need material to back up the cut; especially when machining around sharp corners, but I agree that you should always climb cut whenever possible.

@daveomacron4301 2 жыл бұрын

When profiling a flame-cut hardened piece of steel to keep from smashing tf out of your inserts.

@mcsheesh2052 2 жыл бұрын

If you're machining cast iron/steel parts conventional milling can save you a lot of tool life. All that slag junk on top of the casting can ruin a cutter pretty quickly. Conventional milling typically breaks of the rest of the surface contaminations when exiting the cut, keeping your end mills nice and sharp