To put it simply, the Stockton and Darlington railway was the first railway to carry passengers however it was designed to carry coal, the Liverpool and Manchester railway was the first railway SPECIFCALLY DESIGNED to carry passengers. Thus, the L&M was the first railway to have modern, recognisable features such as platforms, timetables, and specially built passenger carriages. While the Stockton and Darlington railway was the first railway to carry passengers, the L&M was the world’s first “passenger railway”.

The Pennyderren plateway had the first steam locomotive (built by Richard Trevithic in 1804) but it was too heavy for the cast iron rails and thus was rarely used.

This is (sort of) a part two to my response to the mostly excellent video. Personally, I have only one answer to "What was the first railway?" and that is to ask "How do you define a railway? What does it need to have?" "Wheels on rails" - German mines in 12th century. "Metal rails" - First half of 18th century in Northern England they started covering wooden rails with iron plates. The first iron rails were probably made in Sheffield, England before 1790. These were still L-shaped and the wheels travelled along the bottom of the L. "Metal edge-on rails, flanged wheels" - 1793 in South Wales (Beaufort and Blaenavon lines). "Steam Locomotive Haulage" - Pen-y-darren in South Wales 1804. "Separate (Independent) Railway Company" - "Surrey Iron Railway" in Southern England in 1805 . Previous railways were part of another business venture (mostly mines) . It was horse hauled with L-shaped rails. "Fare-paying Passengers, Railway Station(?)" - "Swansea and Mumbles Railway" in South Wales 1807. Passengers were collected and dropped off at "The Mount" but no details of facilities exist. It was horse-hauled. "Flanged Wheels and Steam Locomotives and Fare-paying Passengers" - Stockton and Darlington 1825. Passengers reported to the goods yard office (usually doubling as an inn!). "Dedicated Passenger Stations, Inter city, Double Track Main Line, Steam Haulage only" -Liverpool and Manchester 1830. I am sure I have missed a few things 😅

Just an aside really - but I come from a little village in scotland that 150 years or so ago had some lime workings close by - and a railway setup to shift the lime to the main line (now the main scotland to england east coast line). well the only evidence of that old line existing was in maps from the 1870s and the still recognisable banks in the forests where a railway line once stood.. until my parents found rotting away in the middle of the forest, 2 old wooden signs with big old iron rivets in them stating the names of the 2 stations that used to be served by them. Both are now features in my garden, hopefully preserving them for a wee while longer.

The reason to care, in a larger way, is that these "mistakes" happen all of the time. Wording matters, and when searching or using AI, that wording is even more important. A person might infer what you mean due to prior conversation, the day's news, or things they know about you. AI and search engines have some of this information because we're all tracked to the point the internet knows us better than we know ourselves, but they can only "infer" in a limited way. It won't necessarily make the intuitive leaps one human being may make about another. Not particularly a train fan but enjoyed this video!

Loved this video. The mix of storytelling, humor, research, and info was terrific. Keep it up.

This is a great coverage of many of the complexities involved with the early development of the railways! As a rail-fan for most of my life, I was aware of the S&D vs. L&M debate, as well as the fact that collieries had proto-railways far before anything intended for public use. Even still I hadn’t heard of the Swansea and Mumbles before nor the Ancient Greek “railway”. Not that my opinions matters, but I’d say “the first proper railway” was the S&D, while “the first passenger railway” was the L&M. The S&D ushered in railways as a mode of transport, the L&M made it clear passenger transport could be a priority. Many railways even to this day rely/relied on goods traffic to stay afloat, with passenger services being a bonus rather than the main economic force. That’s why I think the S&D’s focus on goods can’t really disqualify it as the “first proper railway”. (Oh and for what it’s worth I’d say the Swansea and Mumbles is really more of a horse-tram than “railway”!)

2:17 A dale is a river valley, especially in the north of England and the borders of Scotland. e.g. Lauderdale in Scotland, and Wharfedale in England. The Yorkshire Dales are the most beautiful part of the world, in God's own county. I grew up (1950s) close to Matthew Murray's/Blenkinsop's/Brandling's Middleton Colliery Railway - which was the first steam railway in the world (1812), although not a passenger railway. When I was young the old lines were still in place, although not in use, and there were remnants of a phase when steam-powered cable hauling was used rather than steam locomotives. It is criminal that those historically important things were destroyed to build a housing estate (the Manor Farm estate) in the early '60s.

Just stumbled on your channel and I must say, I appreciate the research that goes into this. Keep it up!

This may be way off-topic, but I was very fascinated by seeing someone apparently in the US drink Gerolsteiner in a video. I didn't even know you could get it outside of Germany, much less overseas.

12:32 Yes, horses qualify just fine in my book. My requirement is just something on a track (as opposed to road), it can be 100% wooden track, but it keeps the wheels on track and has less friction then a regular road of the time, and it's pulled somehow.

i might be locally biased but its clear the Stockton Darlington is the first. Of course the first is going to be smaller that is the nature of the undertaking and its by 5 years which is significant not a few months were technicalities could be argued

watching a living iron horse in action is a gorgeous thing to see

From my understanding, the concept of a “railway” wasn’t new for the S&D, the fact it’s primary design was for the conveyance of coal demonstrates this. The S&D had more in common with the waggonways that had been around for a good few decades by this point rather than a modern railway. One example I can think of from the top of my head is the tanfield railway, one of the oldest railways in the world (in dispute with the Middleton railway on this. Tanfield was the first long distance waggonway built in 1725, but Middleton was the first built with an act of parliament), but anyway, tanfield railways purpose was to convey coal from the inland coal fields of Durham, to the river Tyne where it could be shipped along the river and eventually be exported from South Shields on the coast, a very similar purpose to the S&D. The S&D was single tracked with passing points, and saw both horse drawn and steam loco pulled trains move along it, there was no timetable, no central company operating the movement of wagons, individuals would pay a fee to use the line and go for it. In essence S&D was an iron railed waggonway with steam locomotives Meanwhile, L&M is closer to what we would recognise as a real railway, double tracked, regular services, all trains operated by a central company, and it was a dedicated steam hauled line, having held trials to figure out what was the best steam locomotives to use on this line (Rainhill trials). Importantly, it’s primary purpose wasn’t the conveyance of coal, but of manufactured goods from Manchester factories to the docks of Liverpool, and raw goods back in the other direction, competing with the canal barges and donkey haulage, the passenger part basically being advertisement for the railway. S&D’s innovation was the development of functional iron rails and steam locomotives, L&M’s innovation was how the innovations of the S&D could be better employed in operation. I consider the L&M the first “true” railway in the modern understanding, with the S&D being the final step in the development of the Railways predecessor in the Waggonway Also, as an aside, as part of the aforementioned Tanfield Railways construction, the currently oldest surviving railway bridge in the world, and at the time of its construction the largest single span bridge in Britain, was built in the form of causey arch. It was only in active use for a few years before it was diverted, but was certainly a feat of engineering

to be honest, halfway through this vid i was thinking of a tv series from the 70's called Connections by James Burke. essentially in history there is never a "first" but a build up from something that went before.

the title should really mention this is about passenger railway because my first thought when it started was "that is wrong" because the first Steam Locomotive was build in 1804 by Richard Trevithick in the UK and you can perfectly google that.

Stockton-Darlington ran horse drawn passenger "trains" (in fact, stage coaches running on rails) until 1833 more or less, when they were replaced finally by steam trains. It was the first public steam railway. The first regular passenger service pulled by steam locomotiives was the Canterbury-Withstable railway, opened on May, 1830, with one locomotive and fixed steam engines to climb an incline. But yes, the first inter city modern railway was Liverpool-Manchester.

4:33 love hearing Fred Dibnah can recognise it from his Bolton accent alone

I had to come here from Nebula to tell you how much I enjoyed this. Wonderfully explanative, good research and charming presentation. I'm originally from Newcastle, George Stephenson country, lived in Manchester (and by the way the Liverpool St station still exists as part of a Museum, and I'm a rail-fan. Did you just create this video for me? If so thanks. I'd say sterling work, but of course none of these railways used Sterling Engines.

Framing is everything. So much comes down on what terms one applies. The more archaic the topic, the more difficult it becomes finding common ground without an explicit definition prior to debate. My three favorite terms which are useless in that way are time, work and art. I wouldn't have thought "railway" would rank so high, but I guess it is still better than "train" as in the title.

Oh my god I've been subscribed to you for like 5 years and this is the first video of yours that it's served me in the last three

2:16 "Dale" means valley. It's a Germanic word. In Norwegian valley is "dal" It's the name of a location in LotR.

So, here's a little extra story from that first opening day of the Liverpool-Manchester line, and a sad note to an otherwise widely celebrated day. You mentioned that in attendance were a lot of important figures, and one of them was Liverpool MP at the time William Huskisson. Sadly, on this otherwise celebrated day, he became the first fatality of the railway age, after being hit by the train during the opening procession.

I work in a steam museum in Darlington and it's a privilege to do so, and watching the amazed and fascinated faces of visitors is priceless 😊... And we were the first passenger railway because we also have the first passenger station...and as we had a passenger carriage, were a passenger and freight railway pulled by steam engines...the first 🥇

Another thing the Stockton and Darlington railway standardized is the 1435 mm standard gauge which is still the most widely used in the world. Apparently the choice of this gauge was influenced by existing horse-drawn carriages. Britain soon became an important country manufacturing and exporting railway locomotives, which helped establish that gauge in other countries as well and made it much easier to form an international network in later years. (Notable exceptions: Spain/Portugal with one broad gauge, the Russian Empire including former zones of influence such as Finland with another, India curiously having almost the same gauge as Spain despite formerly being under British rule, south Asian narrow gauge networks, much of Japan ... uhh the world is full of exceptions. But still standard gauge is definitely the most common worldwide.)

The oldest railway in the world that operates passenger services is the Middleton Railway in Leeds which opened in 1758. It took coal from a coal mine to the then town of Leeds, now a city, and now operates passenger services as a heritage railway.

On 21 February 1804, the world’s first ever railway journey ran 9 miles from the ironworks at Penydarren to the Merthyr-Cardiff Canal, south Wales. It was to be several years before steam locomotion became commercially viable, meaning that Richard Trevithick and not George Stephenson was the real father of the railways.

I'd like to add another couple of contendes in 1808 Richard Trevithick built a circular track of around 30m diameter in Bloomsbury, London, on this line his locomotive 'Catch me who can' with a number of wagons provided rides to the public at the cost of a Shilling at a reported speed between 12-15mph, this railway lasted for around 2 months and was ultimately closed follwing issues with the rails... as such this would be 'the first (steam haulled) Passenger train with (fare paying) passengers (which was specifically built for the purpose) (i belive it's also the first dedicated passenger only railway)', four years earlier in 1804 he had built a narrow Guage locomotive which successfully hauled a train of 5 wagons loaded with 10tons of iron and 70 men over 9.75 miles at a reported speed of 5mph, on the Methyr Tramroad, Wales, as such i think this may be 'The first (steam hauled) (Mixed) train with passengers and stuff' (this locomotive proved too heavy for the rails and was also quickly abandoned)

Love the video. Great work.

I’m from the area around Newcastle upon Tyne which is where Stephenson was from and had his workshop. I also drive the metro and it’s pretty cool that I’m driving over some of the oldest railways in the world. We have some great railway museums up here, one of them is called the Stephenson railway museum (named after the man) and it’s built on the site of the metro test track from the 1970s. There’s also the Tanfield heritage railway further south that is the oldest still in use railway in the world.

The Oystermouth Railway (later known as Swansea and Mumbles) here in Wales was the first passenger railway operating a passenger service from 1807. Stockton and Darlington had the first steam-powered passenger service from 1825. Although Wales had the first steam-powered freight service in Merthyr Tydfil from 1804.

We could even look at some fairground displays for the first railroads. Richard Trevithick, who built the locomotive for Pen-y-Darren, also had a locomotive called Catch me who can running at today's London Euston station running in a circle for amusement. A similar fairground display was running 1804 in Berlin (1 penny for a ride), built by the Königliche Eisengießerei.

Somehow Liverpool & Manchester feels more "right" to me as answer because it was purpose-built, but I'm surprisingly torn about it for such a "meaningless" question. (I guess also because it gets the Swiss only 17 years behind Britain instead of 22 years in terms of railway development :D ) Btw where is the footage of the bridge at 16:25 from? It seems familiar.

So the Stockton Darlington was the first recognised commercial railway. And was Engineered buy George Stephenson who had a hand in its construction and pioneered and developed his new engines . He also help build the Liverpool Manchester. And competed in the rainhill trials which he won and awarded prize money and awarded the first passenger paying transport from om Liverpool to Manchester 1830.

I checked for the Swansea & Mumbles railways and apparently according to WordPress & Wikipedia, it was the first passenger line however the passenger cars were pulled by horses. It wasn't until later that the Swansea & Mumbles railway started using trains in the late 1900s.

1500s Czech miners develop mine carts on rails. 1803 Trevithick builds rail loop in London. 1825 Stockton and Darlington. 1829 Rainhill trials on Liverpool and Manchester Railway, first passenger railway.

"She was not on the midnight train going anywhere, she was on the noon train going to Manchester" Holy rusted metal batman that had me in stitches.

A different angle would be to consider how many inventions and innovations had to come together in a certain place for such a breakthrough to happen. See the development of radio, the lightbulb or television for examples. More recently, I think that GPS mapping and turn-by-turn directions on a device in your pocket is astonishing given how many inventions are all required; geo-stationary satellites, GPS, GPS being made public (thanks Regan), low powered RISC processors, lithium-ion batteries, capacitive touch-screens, mass storage flash memory, at least 3G mobile broadband, big data based apps able to supply maps for free, LED/LCD displays, multi-tasking operating systems and the list goes on and on, just so you can drive to the store for milk.

And the first passenger railway in Australia opened in 1836 (the South Eastern Convict Tramway)….

yet again I fail to see the mention of Richard Trevithick, who envisioned steam transportation before Stephenson.

You may as well argue that a couple of miners jumping into a coal wagon and rolling down a rail track to a coal face was a 'passenger train', it wasn't. Stockton - Darlington was a rail track worked by steam and horse traction, it was not a passenger train or railway.. Liverpool-Manchester was a REGULAR timetabled, passenger and goods carrier , fully steam locomotive hauled traction railway designed as a public transport system.

John Fitch built the first steam locomotive in 1789 and was promptly laughed out of Philadelphia, he then made a great steam boat and everyone laughed at him but when fulton did it they called him a hero. Fitch would die of alcohol poisoning from drinking away depression but his locomotive which was 2’ gauge and was just as 2’ sized. It is now at the ohio state university in just about mint condition because fitch didn’t destroy it and it sat under a canvas tarp the entire time.

Another suggestion: the Canterbury and Whitstable Railway in Kent (surveyed by Stephenson of Stockton and Liverpool fame) opened in 1830 was a public railway built to handle passengers AND freight. Passengers first and foremost. Indeed, the world's first season ticket ever issued was handed out to ride the line in 1834. There is a plaque to this day on Canterbury West Station which declares it was the first "passenger station" in the world. The line was closed in 1953.

Manchester wasn't a city until 1853 and Liverpool had to wait until 1880. Therefore, it can't have been the first inner-city railway. STRIKE 1 for Woolner. As for the Stockton and Darlington not operating the passenger services in the early days, well that doesn't preclude them from being considered a proper railway. Does Amtrak own the tracks it operate on? Or does it gave access rights to run its services? In the UK and EU states, we have open access and companies who wish to run grain services can apply for access to run train services provided they meet all legal requirements. This also mirrors what the Stockton and Darlington was doing. STRIKE 2 for Woolner. Anyway who says a railway can't gave mix propulsion or has to gave more than 1 line. If it needs to have more than 1 line then it rules out many railways that still operate today, including many lines in North America, Australia, Denmark, the UK, etc. STRIKE 3. You can't rely on journalists.

The repeated "city" versus "town" bit had me really wanting to quibble as the distinction in the UK has little to do with size. Still, it was worth sitting through for the truly excellent ending! Incidentally, if you're familiar with British street-naming, having a Liverpool Road in Manchester isn't confusing. It's the road which leads to Liverpool. What is confusing is when the road name changes less than half a mile out of town. ;) It's because you're now in the territory of a little village, from which the road will lead you back to the place the road is now named for.

As a Cornish Man I can proudly tell you it was Richard Trevithick who invented the first steam locomotive.

Wow, as a railfan watching this - you are very poetic, nice to hear it through your view of things.

One was a purpose built passenger railway. The Liverpool and Manchester so it was the first purpose built raulway. The Stockton to Darlington railway was the first railways to carry passengers but it was not intended for passengers but built for coal. So the S&D was the first to carry passengers in coal wagons.

I can tell the difference, Wikipedia talks about the first INTERCITY railway, while Britannica talks about the first one to CARRY PASSENGERS.

Very good, thanks.

Great video Another peice of information you might find interesting is in Ironbridge Shropshire England, it is recorded to have built the world's first steam locomotive, now for my main point, just down the the valley river (about 8 miles) in the town of Bridgnorth there was another locomotive built in 1808 and it is claimed to be the first steam locomotive to pull people along using wagons, however it was only a demonstration train in a loop to prove how useful steam power could be, but do you think this still counts?

Showed up for historical transportation. Subscribed for the TNG reference.

As neither Liverpool nor Manchester were officially cities in 1830 when the Liverpool and Manchester railway opened, it can't have been the first inter-city railway. My answer is that the first inter-city railway was the London and Birmingham. Birmingham also wasn't officially a city in 1838 when it opened, but Coventry was on the route, and that was a city.

Dale, another word for a valley. Railways started in County Durham as ways of move coal to the River Tyne for shipping to London.. The earliest tended to use gravity to move the full wagons, on iron rails , to the river with horses to haul the empty "chaldrons" back.The Causey arch is the worlds first railway bridge and is a scheduled ancient monument. As more coal seems were foundfurther from the river, stationary engines, using rope haulage were employed and some of the engineers maintaining these stationary engines began to develop primitive locomotives. Trevithick's Pen-y-Daran tramway was not successful as the locomotive was too heavy for the rails. The first railway authorised by "Act of Parliament" was the Middleton Railway taking coal to the River Aire in Leeds in 1758, this railway was also the first to successfully use steam locomotives in 1812. These locos used a rack system and 4ft gauge track. The debates over the Stockton & Darlington and the Liverpool & Manchester are more confused as parliamentary bills were in play at the same time. Passengers on the S&D mainly travelled in coal wagons initially and passenger use was not included in the Act. Both were engineered by George Stephenson to his 4ft 81/2 in gauge, which became Standard Gauge

A more fundamental question is, what was the first wheeled carriage that could move itself without animal or human force being applied to it. And yet, even that simple question returns two different answers: In 1803, what is said to have been the first horseless carriage was a steam-driven vehicle demonstrated in London, England, by Richard Trevithick. AND The story of the horseless carriage begins in 1778 with the work of French military engineer Nicholas Joseph Cugnot. These leaps in technology seem to emerge from within us from no fixed point in either time or space but rather they seem to arise organically from multiple points at once.

The British built a gravity railway in 1764 at Niagara, North America, which used a counter balance to help it move goods up and down. I'm sure some people rode on it, but I can't find any information on passengers. So another one to throw into the mix LOL 🙂

it made sense that coal trains were the catalyst for the railway system, I think they'd had them in coal mines, connecting them to wharves and underground for many years before the Stockton and Darlington. Imagine how difficult it would be to push a wheeled tub full of coal in a roughly hewn tunnel with a rough floor, that's why the whole thing started with coal and copper mines. Ponies and humans provided the motive power.

11:51 picture shows the little Eaton tramway near Derby. It was built to transfer coal from the pits nearby to the river trent for onward shipment. Apparently this is also a Contender for one of the earliest tramways (not railways). However it only used horses, but the wagons were run as trains (look at picture) rather than singly. According to wiki they also invented containerisation as special wagon bodies were designed to be filled with coal and lifted off of the wagon onto the boat without emptying them out.

A dale is a valley, simple as. The word appears to be Nordic in origin, and is still very much a thing not only in northern England but also in Iceland - Dalur - same word. For example - Geldingadalur where the volcano erupted in 2020, and Wensleydale in northern England and famous for its cheese.

You have missed the Hunslet railway in Leeds started before the Stockton railway built by Trithick to carry coal and carried its workers

The Liverpool & Manchester was the first inter-city railway, built specifically to connect two cities for general freight (and passengers). The Stockton & Darlington was essentially a colliery line, built to carry coal to the port, the towns of Stockton and Darlington just coincidentally happened to be on the route. There were numerous short colliery lines (horse-drawn) before that.

The Swansea Railway is actually a Tramway but the earliest Tramway still in existence is the Tanfield Railway.

I think the real lesson here is that often the question is at least as important as the answer, if not even more so. And asking the correct question often requires expertise or research or help from an expert. Although the kind of pondering you had while watching Star Trek is good too - while it's not a question that can be answered as such, it clearly inspired you to do enough research to eventually be able to ask a question that could, as well as answer other related questions. This is also the lesson that Douglas Adams was trying to teach us with 42, although sadly in a lot of pop culture it seems that it has been simplified to the point of losing the point.

I think the L&MR is the better “first” railway. The Stockton and Darlington did carry passengers with steam, but it was not run like a modern railway. It was ran more like a canal or plateway. There was no schedule or time table, trains simply ran when they needed to. The L&MR on the other hand had time tables, scheduled trains, and pioneered modern railway practice

I remember 'Stockton & Darlington' solely from Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon.

Richard Trevithick's commissioned loco Catch Me Who Can had passengers on 1808 tho that was an exhibition track in a circle, but they were paying passengers XD

The first passenger carrying railway was The Swansea and Mumbles Railway, which first started operating for passengers on 25 March 1807. This predated the Stockton & Darlington by eighteen years. The carriages were horse drawn horse drawn but nonetheless it carried fare paying passengers and ran on rails. End of discussion.

You didn't even touch on the rabbit hole of Richard Trevithick! He built a locomotive for the Pen-y-Darren Ironworks which "on 21 February 1804 it successfully carried 10 tons of iron, 5 wagons and 70 men the full distance in 4 hours and 5 minutes", so was a locomotive hauling passengers as well as freight in 1804..... but that falls foul of not being regular fare paying passengers..... So what about his locomotive Catch me who can? A steam locomotive built purely for carrying passengers in 1808?? Ok, it only ran on a line from somewhere just south of Euston in London to.... somewhere just south of Euston in London..... i.e. it was just a circle that went nowhere.... but still - it was built as a passenger hauling railway 17 years before the Stockton & Darlington!

When there is controversy or disputes I love reading the talk page on Wikipedia to better understand the diversity of opinion.

Big difference between steam-powered passenger train and steam-powered passenger railway. S&D was a freight line, not a passenger railway but had passenger trains on the line.

love the colors of the star trek tshirt!

"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.

leeds have a contender too Middleton railway is old its the world's oldest continuously working railway so it has a technicality if currently being the oldest passenger railway and has the dishonour of killing the first member of the public to be killed by a locomotive was almost certainly a 13-year-old boy named John Bruce killed in February 1813 whilst running alongside the tracks.

The stockton and Darlington was a horse drawn railway, the steam trains had to fit in with them going at the same speed.

As a Northerner I thoroughly enjoyed this video

13:03 You had me at "Penny Darren" [...Tram Road]. Zero idea why it's delightful to my brain but dang that's a charming name. You kept me at George Saunders. Felt like I was in steady hands & I take my Virgils where I can find 'em. Anyway...Subbed/Belled-Up/Liked/Comment left to jangle digital keys at algorithm so it hopefully shows your channel to me once in a while. Thank you.

2:13 - A dale is another (archaic) word for "valley".

as a teesside native, this pleases me greatly

Very nice, like 🤩!

Officially a dale is a Valley in Northern England\scotland. It's usually used in England to describe open hilly and valley land in Northern England.

Amazing strategy. I have always known that the Liverpool - Manchester train was the first intercity service and that there were some cases of people moving on steam trains before that but I have never looked in it with so much detail. I think I agree with your view. The main difference is that L&M was the first good COMMERCIAL passenger service, whilst be the S&D was more like a test-case study, to put it in easy terms. So, what was the first passenger steam train? S&D trains What was the first commercial passenger railroad system? L&M L&M was therefore the first business that could be copied as a full developed system but it was technically NOT the first one to operate passenger trains.

The first modern railway was the L&M as it was the first public railway designed for timetabled locomotive haulage. Each individual component besides the last had been tried but never together or with the same sucess

The traditional difference between a city and a town (in Britain) is whether or not there is a cathedral within the town. (St. David's in Wales is the smallest city in the world by this definition.) Trains haul cargo, one type of which is passengers. It's all in the definitions.

ChatGPT has the correct answer because railways are a separate and far older technology to steam powered locomotion. You could break the question down further and ask what's the first steel railway, or the first wooden railways. The problem is we are so used to thinking of railway as the modern take, 2 sets of steel tracks carrying ether freight or passengers between or through cities pulled by a powered locomotive. It's like asking what we the first car, some steam contraption the French did that drove itself under it's own power, what Mercedes built, impractical, but technically the first car, or Henry Ford, building what in modern days we would call a car, mass produced, reliable and cheap road transport.

The Pen Y Darren Tramway was the first to have a have locomotive using the line, originally pulled by horses it was temporarily used by Trevithick’ locomotive but eventually was dismantled and replaced by horses again.

One thing to note is the wording of the Britannica statement is much better than the Wikipedia one, because it contains much more clarifying detail to define the question it is answering. That may be the downside of Wikipedia (for all that I agree with your assessment of it, and I do support it each year) being compiled by the untrained.

The question should be "What was the first steam railway to carry fee paying passengers on a regular basis?". The answer? The Stockton and Darlington. I'm from Darlington and we are looking forward to the Bicentennial celebrations in 2025. I was there for the 150th ones in 1975. 👍🤣

Wallsend waggon way first steam railway in 1812(ish) Steam elephant 🐘 build by John Buddle and William Clarke their trainee was George Stevenson

I'm pleased to hear mention of the Stockton & Darlington Railway. However you managed to do so without mentioning Shildon, located on the line & considered to be "The Cradle of the Railways." Timothy Hackworth, engineer & competitor of George Stephenson lived & had a workshop here. Good presentation though. Thank you.

Stockton Darlington I think was where the locomotive competition was held but was built as a freight railway. Manchester Liverpool which incidentally gave us the first railway fatality was built as a passenger railway.

Thanks to your video, now I can Google it

you run into the same argument around the invention of the airplane. To get to the Wright Brothers, you need to get as specific as "first heavier than air vehicle capable of carrying a pilot and sustaining flight under its own power, capable of maintaining stability in and maneuvering in all three rotational axes." There were and still are a bunch of rival claims of primacy based on either meeting a subset of these requirements or arguing that the 1903 Wright Flyer did not properly meet at least one of these. The Smithsonian Institution did not recognize the Wrights as holding primacy until the 1940s, for combined political and institutional reasons.

Ruling out a passenger service because the primary role of the line is to carry goods would lead to saying AMTRAK isn't real.

I went back in time to the 1800s and after explaining to a man where I came from he asked how long was it before we had steam trains to carry people to the Moon. I had a hard time explaining how and why his question was fundamentally flawed and there was no way for me to really answer it the away he wanted. The question you ask, is what is flawed, and that is why the answers are varied and confusing.

What about the railway from Gallbladderpool to Womanchester?

here is a quest for you, where did the train whistle come from? because before the train whistle appeared all steam locomotives relied on a bugle

im quite happy i live near stockton

The Greek track is not a railway, as they did not use rails as guides, but grooves(?). However, horse drawn railways where quire common in Europe and most of them transported people at one time or the other. Essentially, this is a question on how scientific do you want to have your answer? A railway (one or more rails, made out of wood, iron or steel) and a number of cars which are connected and pulled by something. Therefore, horses with multiple wagons on a railway fulfill the requirements for a train. Now the question is: Do you want to know (a) which train was the first train to transport people? (b) which train was dedicated to transport people? (c) which railway was built with passengers in mind?

heck there is a lot of trains that google can't find. a while back i wanted to know the history of two small quarries and the railroad that served them, at first i found nothing aside from two mikes and two 2-8-0s, then after digging a bit more i found that three books had all the answers about the railroad that i wanted. still cant find much on the quarries sadly,

Off topic but still on point. Erotostines is said to have calculated correctly the diameter of a globe Earth by using the variance of the differing angles of sunlight at noon on the summer solstice in the cities of Syene and Alexandria 500 miles apart. Google search what is the angle of the suns light at noon on summer solstice in both cities and the answer is the same 7.6 degrees. So he calculated what exactly?