Do you think suffering gives people meaning?

"to live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in that suffering" - Frederick Nietzsche

There is a Big difference between Pain and Suffering. Life is inevitably painful, but we do not need to suffer that pain. I’ve had 3 years of chronic pain so far, and my reaction to that pain matters more than the pain itself. We can either suffer our pain or accept our pain. The more I surrender to my pain and others’ pain, the more I appreciate Life. When I choose to suffer Pain, I hate life. I will always choose Love. Life is so beautiful it Hurts! Feel the Hertz!

There's a big difference between looking for meaning in challenges vs real misery

I agree with this, all growth happens either in adversity, or when reflecting on past adversity. It doesn't even have to be life changing monumental adversity, it can be a simple as being late for an appointment because you're stuck in traffic, or having to cancel a social engagement because you're ill. Each one of these instances is a chance to improve yourself, to stop yourself from freaking out, or blaming anything and everyone else, and to stop, remind yourself you are not going to die, and ask how do I improve this situation, and how will that in turn improve me. It's not easy, and it takes years of practice and effort, but at least you're trying to make yourself better, stronger and more resilient.

My Dad is so fulfilled, he finished School after: 1.) Hacking his way through the Jungle, 2.) Climbing on top of a 2000 meter hill, 3.) Fording a river fighting off crocs, 4.) Taking the Bus and, 5.) Finally reaching the classroom.

"Pain and suffering are inevitable for persons of broad awareness and depth of heart. The truly great are, in my view, always bound to feel a great sense of sadness during their time upon earth" - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

I experienced trauma as a young boy and it destroyed my happy, outgoing outlook on life until 32. I’m 34 now, recovered from my addiction and grateful that I finally “unfroze”. Those traumas kept me stuck in time, frozen and clinging to that pain and I continually hurt myself-to escape. It was a vicious cycle I slipped into and had no clue until I was so far gone it nearly took my life many times over. A Sarge who ran the drug rehabilitation program I was sentenced to in 2019 told me “you have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable” and it stuck. It’s actually part of my life’s transformation at this point, all the way down to taking cold showers to increase my tolerance to discomfort! If you had brain-changing trauma happen and are stuck in a pattern of extremes, I’d encourage you to discover where it’s coming from. Practice DBT, get to know yourself and what motivates you. You’re certainly not alone and it absolutely can be done.

Suffering makes you stronger.

I was contemplating the Buddha’s teachings one day and I came to the realisation “the more one has experienced suffering, the more mature they are”. The Buddha realised that every thing in this world leads to suffering and therefore he attained the ultimate maturity of the mind.

The good things in life, only make sense relative to the bad things. How very true!

Fascinating. As someone who hates pain, I’ve always found this notion to be appealing but only at arms length. I do struggle with his assertion that “for something to be meaningful, it must involve suffering” as the delight of a serene beach with plenty of wine and a lovely sunset isn’t only meaningful to me because it was a struggle to get there. Not saying I’m right, just aching for a bit more nuance.

We seek out novelty. If we're bored with happiness or success, our response to seemingly pursue suffering may actually be an escape from the suffering of boredom. It's variety that holds meaning.

Suffering creates perseverance. Perseverance creates characters. Characters creates hope.

It's not pain, or pure suffering, but the possibility of not succeeding that brings meaning to things we find meaningful and worth doing. No risk, no reward. No pain, no gain.

Whenever we undergo any kind of suffering, our desire to end that suffering seems to immediately arise. This desire is nothing other than kindness and compassion, and what's amazing about our human nature.

I know I'm going to look back at this past year and think "how tf did I get through that?" But also see how it leads me to better things and make sense of the suffering endured in retrospect.

Those jobs are meaningful because they’re about helping people. If suffering were the key to meaning, the child laborers of cobalt in our phones would be the most fulfilled people, or would be considered to have the best start in life, and we all know that’s wrong. It’s about running the race, proving you’re worthy of your goals, and transforming your life in the process.

If you look at it from a physiological perspective, pathway is quite clear. Exercise, stress or maybe hurting yourself in a case of masochism stimulates cortisol release and some of that excess cortisol is turned into endorphin, a hormone which is responsible for some of the good feelings we experience. We all partly know about the sweet exhaustion after a workout, this is how it simply works.

We can’t avoid suffering, but we can choose our suffering. For example, we will inevitably age and our body will deteriorate. But we can choose to suffer by working out, to make the unchosen suffering (aging) more bearable.

Not that long ago I was wishing for things to be how they were before I felt like this. Being just okay feels like heaven when you're not. Then again being just okay is probably pretty good

I do not agree to his claim : "we need pain and suffering to have rich and happy lives"

While on the whole, I do agree, there's a lot of nuance here. Especially reg. work that has meaning - people are willing to suffer to have meaning, it's not that suffering inherently creates meaning. This is just exploitation of perceived value of meaning by employers paying less and treating people worse for it. This is rampant in Healthcare and such.

One can also find personal meaning in the suffering of others. One might call this "borrowed suffering." During the first 2 years of the pandemic, more than 6 million people around the world died just from the disease. Also so many lost their businesses (more suffering), school children were unable to learn or attend prom (more suffering), factories shut-down, goods were not shipped from Asia, climate brought extreme weather and constant wildfires, the US Insurrection, constant mass shootings, etc. As a composer, this suffering that I didn't personally experience lead me to write some of my best music to leave for the world, which gave me deep meaning and fulfillment.

What I value the most about this video is how it summarizes everything in the following example: Imagine that you can dream a lucid dream about anything you truly desire to come true, then the next day you can do the same, and so on. At some point it will get boring and meaningless right? Because it is plain and has no risk. It's just like a movie where everything is happy and perfect, nobody would want to see it. So just remember that eventough life can get pretty messy and hurt you, it's part of the plot, and the protagonist's development, and that will be you. You may start as someone that has been really really hurt but remember that you can decide wether to become batman or the joker and find meaning by being a superhero, you can save lives just by listening and being a company to someone who may want to end his own life, you never know who that might be. In that way instead of growing into a villain find meaning in the inevitable and necessary pain within this bittersweet and poignant life.

Life is inherently sufficiently difficult. We don't have to add difficulties for meaning; they are part and parcel of the experience itself.

Sufferings are a gift from God, learnt that at 17. Now I'm 51 kg from being 126 kg. Still no girlfriend though, but I am much more happier with myself now

This very thing was specifically written in the Quran. Alhamdulilah. This is amazing insight.

I think meaning can be derived from minimizing self or others' suffering, but not the other way around... By optimizing how we do things and balancing different aspects of life, we can achieve the same meaningful outcome while reducing the amount of suffering. I would agree that challenges make life more meaningful, but challenges do not have to involve suffering.

We all understand that we need to suffer in certain areas of life in order to achieve our dreams. Yet the human brain is powerful and conjures up many ways for us to avoid that, making it more complicated than it is.

Me, a chronic pain patient... "Well, fuck me, then." Everyone that knows me, Knows if this stopped, for me, I'd live my life with all the gusto I could. Shit. I STILL try. But being stuck in a wildly dreaming pain cage seems to be a particularly cruel kind of suffering. I would like to believe I have a better life ahead of me. I'm a disabled, 33 yr old.

Me the more that I'm in pain the more that I'm inspired to do the things I want and that's thing is have a better life , to thrive.

For ten years, I suffered from chronic Lyme disease, arthritis, gallbladder issues and constant chronic pain. The doctors said I would not recover. I was in agony daily, and I watched others die around me with late stage diseases. Prayer healed me when medicine failed me. God fully healed my disease. When Jesus found me I got baptized and started following the bible. God gave me a new family. My life is full of meaning. My heart is full of gratitude. I want to love others and share his work. You are unique to God and you are special to Him. Today I am free from disease! Don't listen to the people who hate and talk negatively. God is kind, patient and he loves you with an everlasting love. Seek the Lord while he may be found (Isaiah 55:6-9) Psalm 41:3 “The Lord sustains them on their sickbed and restores them from their bed of illness.” Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Give me stronger battles.

The most subtil content I haven't watched for a while. I think it just allowed me to see life from another perspective. Thank you So much Professer!

It’s a little bit fluffy but I generally like how he’s thinking. He is a great speaker in my opinion.

When it comes to investing, diversification is key, that’s why I engage in sectors based on projected growth. There’s no shortcut to getting rich, but there are smart ways to go about it.

It’s hard watching this. I really want to be open and learn but I guess I’m not there. Choosing suffering sounds like a luxury when suffering is about the only thing you know, especially if it’s something you’re born into. All you want to do is get out because the emotional torture can be unbearable. So to say you want to choose this feels like wow, what is going on?!!

This just seems like ideas for those with a privilaged, safe-living existence, only ever having to deal with the shallow end of human suffering.

Though physical suffering does build a more athletic body. I believe that emotional suffering is what makes the wisest people. Things like mistakes, tragedy, and isolation which drives a person to change for better or worse. By overcoming a problem you have no control of, you learn to be a better person.

I have suffered continous health problems this unchosen suffering has worsened life.

One of the most meaningful videos I have watched in my life. Thank you.

Suffering is not the source of meaning nor happinnes. We don't need pain nor suffering to feel happy. Suffering would be meaningful only if we have already succeeded. Namely, Once Sucsses Is Achived the suffering is RETROSPECRIVLY classified as meaningful. On The Contrary, if the suffering has not yielded an achievement, then only bare Suffering is all that is left - meaningles Suffering. Anyways, the meaning (or meaninglessness) is attached retrospectively and only if an achievement was reached (or not).

Indeed, with hardship will be ease [94:6-Quran]

I read stories about people who have had near death experiences (NDE) and many say they learned in the afterlife that souls choose to come to earth and into a physical body in order to experience suffering, since it provides contrast. Without this contrast, it's like perpetual beauty that can't be truly appreciated.

Buddha simply said: 1. There is suffering in this world. 2. There are reasons for those suffering. 3. There's a way out of it.

As The old Chinese adage says: "The diamond is not polished with friction, nor the person perfected without trials". In Chinese Chan Buddhist (Zen in Japan, Seon in Korea) teachings it is said that one must "Eat Bitter" to understand full enlightenment.

Did this guy really say avoid suffering that you CANNOT choose to avoid? Wow, well done.

Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl fits here and is a deeply nuanced exploration around this idea. Highly recommend

A thing that really disturbes me is that fatality of human to get bored with happiness. That's why I am researching the philosophy of Schopenhauer, to whom boredom is a necessary reflex of a life based on will. Why? Why are we not able to be happy without suffering?

This means am in the right path. I should just endure more and I will hit my milestones

Living life the hard way, makes living life easier

There are two constants in life - desire and suffering. - Buddha

People who preach & "research" about suffering has never experienced suffering in their life. This is why they encourage people to suffer. It is true that life for some people has become too easy and pleasure is abundant in their life. Therefore, these people seek recreations in self-harm (e.g. tattooing, using drugs etc) just to feel alive. However, they are not the people who define suffering. The true experience of suffering is found in poverty, misery, disease, holocaust and oppression. I am sure this esteemed "researcher" would not want to be a prisoner in concentration camp or would want to do manual labour the way it is done in the under-developed countries. I think these people have wrongly replaced the word "hardship" with suffering. Small hurdles in life are not what can be called suffering. The problems become suffering when they are not in control of the person. Suffering are by very definition things that can not be escaped by hardwork or individual efforts. If working hard makes you rich and brings pleasure then this is not suffering even if one thinks that one is suffering. On the other hand, if one works hard for whole life and yet can not even afford basic living then this is suffering. Promoting wrong things in society is not going to help anyone.

Immense unchosen suffering causes us to appreciate life more when we're able to keep our head above the water, so to speak. It is only when you've lost an ability that you and everyone else takes for granted that perspective starts to shift. There's so many forms and we're often very ignorant as a society where "suffering" is concerned; be it physical, emotional, or a combination of the two. There's a startling difference of perception between people who have experienced extended suffering to the brink or beyond their limits and those who have barely scratched the surface of suffering. The perception of intensity, for example. It's also quite remarkable observing the different ways people respond to and assimilate that suffering. High levels of acute pain can be extraordinarily challenging, but it dissipates. High levels of on going chronic pain is an entirely different ballgame. Both require mental fortitude, but the later requires a person to get to know and become comfortable with themselves and their emotions if they want to come out the other side. It requires surrendering ego, humbling ourselves, and then learning when to ride the storm inside and learning when to grab the lightning, so-to-speak. I wish that we better prepared people for such events and had better support structures in place for when they occur. Society expects certain behaviors to believe a person is "suffering", and yet it is those expected behaviors that will destroy the person. It's true that it is in suffering that we learn the depths of compassion, I think. Yet, we're not well designed as a society to keep those who are suffering integrated. It's extremely important that people learn how to find joy in the smallest things and that they learn how malleable "self" can be. We have to learn to flow with the river unless we want to get crushed by it. Not everyone is lucky enough to innately have that mindset. I really wish there were mandatory classes on this throughout life, because mindset makes all the difference in the world and we lose too many bright lights needlessly that we wouldn't have. If they'd only been shown a way to cope that works for them. Ironically, in many cases we must seek suffering to have any hope of lessening suffering. That's pretty challenging when it's day in and day out for an unspecified eternity. It definitely teaches a person that "failure" is just another word for "you almost got it".

Paul Bloom is a superb communicator

When I was a freelance artist, I moved to other countries desperately trying to find more work. FROM those countries moved some that I met, in order to make it harder for themselves. "It's too easy to work here" is what they said! I am still shaking my head...Yep. "chosen" suffering..!

Scary movies and eating chillies are a pleasure for me

People who choose to suffer have a life that doesn't have enough suffering in it. I for one, pass.

I agree, but on the flip side constant suffering or worrying will lead to an unhappy life, real quick.

We need pain and suffering in order to have a meaningful life ❤

I don't know, I was a much better, kinder, ambitious, and loving person before I got hit with seemingly-endless suffering. I certainly think it would be better for me and everyone around me to not experience this.

"Suffering can help you, to make you clear, to make you sober, as long as you do not condemn yourself and others. Instead of trying to escape suffering, you begin to look at it, question it. It is indicative of something more important that is happening in your life, and something that is not happening in your life. Face this. Look at it as objectively as you can. Look at your past, your recent history, your history of relationships, your history of work, your history of engagement with others. Is there a deeper thread within you, a deeper feeling? If you are willing to look at these things in the way We are describing, you can have a greater experience of what We speak of here today-a deep sobriety, a deep clarity. You may experience this for moments here and there. Perhaps you will look at people who are acting like they are happy and you see they are not really happy. You are looking at people who are affluent but really live like they are living in poverty. You look at beautiful places as places that trap people, who go live there at great expense only to be unfulfilled there as well. You begin to look at things not negatively, but clearly, in light of whether they are really real and really true. Here there is no running away into romance, or running away into living in a beautiful place, no running away into art and culture and politics because running away is only using up your precious time. And time is your problem. You do not have a lot of it. And how it is used or not used makes all the difference. There is only Knowledge and the need for Knowledge at this level of understanding. There is only real honesty and compassion, or there is pretense at various levels." A quote from *What Really Matters* - a teaching from 'The New Message from God' - a set of teachings given now as a warning, a blessing and a preparation for the difficult future ahead.

the very base meaning of suffering is "to experience." it is often linked with negative emotions/feelings but suffering is experiencing.

Suffering is Meaninless, don't suffer if you can

I would change the word suffering to challenging.

Excellence is difficult as it is rare; otherwise everybody would be excellent ~ Benedict Spinoza

Living in pain is terrible, stressful, but because living in pain makes me appreciate every minorities beauty of things in life, from just a kindness of people, a small offer from others which I never expected to receive, I received. Living in pain had two sides but the key still is find somewhat balance that suffer, by enjoying it, find the pleasure, mission, and motivation from that pain. I am addicted to suffer, not the negative side but only choosing to suffer could help me improve.

Really struggling a lot with suicidal thoughts, anxiety and depression lately. I can't talk to anyone about in real life, so I'm just talking about it in the comments instead. For the algorithm. I hate myself.

Wrong conclusion. The jobs that were identified as meaningful were deemed this because those working on the problems within their position could see measurable incremental progress on their projects.

What beautiful content you guys have. Points awesomely put across, a very nice constructive flow of content and also the time length. I like the content cause it opens up untraveled roads to your mind with a guide to what the path is all about or say how could it be useful to each individual. Beautiful

Dr. Bloom is outstanding as usual 🙏

I wish it wasn't this way. Sometimes I feel like it's only suffering and nothing else

I definitely agree with what he says. However, there is one painful experience I endured, which was a degree I pursued with a 98% dropout rate. I managed to succeed after many years and got certified, and it was built up to me as being meaningful by other people in this field. I never found it meaningful. I still do it to this day, but only for the money. I'm trying to get out of it.

No need to try to find suffering. If you are alive, you are suffering one way or the other, but we ALL suffer to some extend.

Suffering is what make the results important

Although pain is a teacher, and a siren when something is wrong, there is still only so much unwarranted pain you can take before it can break you down. If you lose your purpose, and sense of connection to your family and community, and turn into a rootless tree, banging violently along the shores of a fast moving river, just to sink once the current slows, you can lose your way in the pain..

There are limits to suffering. Also eating spicy food and exercising I do not think of them as suffering. They both bring me joy and peace.

This is true from a human ONLY perspective. Agent Smith from the 1st Matrix movie said the same thing. "Humans define their life by suffering". Something of that nature he said. However, coming from an expanded spiritual perspective, Oneness, peace, abundance, and prosperity is the true way of existance. All of that suffering many times can be a huge distraction from true spiritual enlightenment if a person doesn't have the appropriate mindset on how to deal with the suffering and overcome it.

Recommend this video from Yiming Pureland Academy Center “More Chasing, More Sufferings?”

Love Professor Bloom since his online psychology lectures. I strongly encourage you to watch it, they are fascinating and entertaining.

Fools make a virtue of suffering.

Im gonna go back to my country bc sufferins due to racism and lack of job opportunities due to racism. I think theres a limit to wanting to suffer senseless for a lifetime.

I am surprised you brought up Alan Watts, but your message will be incorporated into the mentality I am trying to build. 👏🏿❤️💯

The more pleasure and the less pain, the better. That’s hedonism-all animals pursue pleasure and avoid pain, which is evolution in action. 💕☮🌎🌌

The challenge is not in the suffering, the challenge for me is not getting what you worked hard for after suffering. How do you deal with having constant failures in your life especially when you can't afford to fail?

Degree of my agreement on this depends on how well we define the difference between "chosen" and "unchosen" suffering. As a society, I think we do tend to lump a lot of unchosen suffering into chosen. This kind of thinking, while (IMO) being deeply true, is incredibly prone to slipping into another legitimization of status quo and thats unacceptable. *Rich and privileged sermoning about suffering to the poor and miserable.*

Yes, chosen suffering is needed to enjoy life..

Turn our pains into fuel , into wisdom.

I'm sure long term boredom is worse than both suffering and pleasure because while suffering and pleasure can change you either in a positive or negative way, boredom gives you nothing, and that's the worst thing you can get.

TLDR skit; A- "I'm having so much fun playing Elden Ring" B- "No, you're suffering!" Feels like a dynamic take on suffering. Suffering brings a very large plethora of sometimes visceral images, but what he describes does not look like that. Seeking adversity and chosen obstacles is only interesting because we are able to project ourselves into the future having succeeded, and liking that image. Without the understanding and imagination of knowing that going to the gym will make us stronger/healthier, no one would ever go. So there is physical suffering, but there is also improved mental wellbeing along with a flood of hormones. Eating spicy foods releases endorphins that makes the experience pleasurable, so I wouldn't equate that with suffering either. If it only caused pain no one would eat spicy foods, as some choose not to do because of precisely that. We don't do hard things because they are hard, we do them because we can beat them or at least imagine ourselves beating them. Do people do crosswords in an unknown language? I mean if it just because of the difficulty why not. I did an experiment with my class, where everyone was given a maze that had no exit. Half were told there was an exit. How much more time do you imagine they spent looking for that exit? Much much much longer, as they could perceive themselves finding the exit. The other group went as long as their curiosity allowed. To conclude suffering can be beneficial if it can be overcome, and games are not as fun with cheats enabled.

"All life is suffering". Buddhism worked this out a very long time ago. When you realize this, it changes everything.

so in short, if we have gone through sufferring, consider ourselves lucky since we are living life more purer than the ones who havent suffered enough. Thanks for the insight !

Well when you suffer there could be many choices and when you're brave enough to keep going with the suffering you'll learn some valuable lessons. Those lessons, somehow, make you a conqueror and you'll find a meaning and start building the life you're deserve of ( you'll not realise if it's happening )

to create the reality you want depends on your willingness to experience it’s opposite

😢No.. to suffer doesn't mean good. You ve got to take it by learning for a good living.

Paul Bloom is the greatest public speaking psychologist alive, fight me.

No. I don't agree with this but that's me. I am in a high status high stress job and I enjoy it because I am helping people. But also because I have the power to make decisions and have autonomy. I've had other jobs where I suffered but I didn't believe in the company nor did I feel like I was developing. If I could have the same result from helping people, without the stress, i would choose that. Sometimes it's not meaningful work that makes people suffer. Sometimes its lack of support, management, and training that makes things harder. Also, my father worked his way out if poverty since he was 16. He was able to give my mother and I a great life because of it. But now that he's older and has perspective, he regrets working so hard because he wasn't around for some key moments. I have not met a single older person who said their biggest regret was that they didn't suffer enough or wanted to work more. I think the idea that suffering will equate to meaning in the long run can make people (especially employers) unempathetic to suffering. Helping others is problem solving against suffering.

The last time I heard sweet spot was a doctor's judgment call that caused death

"What do you do from morning to night? I endure myself." - Emil Cioran